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Transcript

Women Rising: Breaking Financial Barriers · That Home Loan Hub

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: no-transcript.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Today I'm joined by an extraordinary Sarah Curley.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I said Sarah, not Sarah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: My accent gets me sometimes.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: That's all right, I'll leave it there.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Hopefully it will be edited out.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at my producer going oh my God.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So, sarah, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Can you please let us know about who you are and what you do?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited to be on this podcast and get to share a little bit about my journey and hopefully help some others as well.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Look, I am in Christchurch.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I'm just finishing up a financial advice degree.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I do have a financial advice background, but my background is also property, real estate and residential property management.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: So I've been working with investors for a long time just a different kind of investor the property investor prior to coming into financial advice.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: But I'm really passionate about helping women in particular.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I can see there's a lot of systemic issues and I'm really keen to start to bridge and close that gap.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, sarah.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You know this inspires me and motivates me to see more women like you in our industry because, as you know, I'm quite passionate about helping women as well, and I think you and I, when we met at the conference a few months ago, we were talking about similarities in our journeys and how, you know, coming out being married, having children and then coming out of it and going through separation and knowing what we know about numbers even for us it was still hard, right, and imagine how hard it is for women that don't have that background like we do.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So do you want to just tell us a little bit more about where your journey has been in financial advice and where do you see to just tell us a little bit more about where your journey has been in financial advice and where do you see yourself going in that sense?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Look, I have been through this massive growth journey in the last five years, very similar to yourself.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: We have very similar experiences there, married with kids, essentially living the life, having it all on paper to have it all break down and essentially have to reset my entire life as I knew it, and that means emotionally too.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Going through the motions, knowing what to do as a financial advisor and being in financial advice and having my finger on the pulse with the money through to actually doing it, are two very different things and, you know, I think it's been an incredible journey for myself and my children to go through this and experience this, because I now feel I can relate to so many people and I can see the systemic problems.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I can see the issues.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I can see where, you know, women are constantly on the back foot and it's hard and I think we can do a lot of things to improve this.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: But we do need to basically acknowledge where we are, acknowledge the problems and then start to build some steps towards fixing that.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And one of the biggest things I ever did that was so incredibly helpful for me was go and speak to my financial advisor in that time, and I can't begin to tell you I knew everything.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: He told me I knew what I had to do.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: But going to someone and saying I knew what I had to do, but going to someone and saying, hey, here's my situation, can you just tell me I'm going to be okay?
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I think I just needed that reassurance, and this financial advisor was incredible.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Not only did they support me, they took me through some steps, they outlined what my options were, but it just gave me that confidence I needed that at the time I was making the right choice, and the ultimate choice I chose to make was actually to step back out of the workforce with two very young children and take some time to essentially reset my mental health.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so a big chunk of money that I could have put into investments.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Instead, I took them back out of investments and I essentially spent a big chunk of money just to have some time off for my kids, to reset my mental health, which is, at the time, what I needed.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And I think that's important to acknowledge because, just like you, when I was going through my separation, I just grabbed my kids and I just went away.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I went overseas and I spent two and a half months out out of New Zealand and I had the privilege and I understand that I had the privilege to do that and, yes, it came with massive financial sacrifices, you know, and I got myself into a worse off position financially but mentally that's what helped me to recover much faster than I think.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: If I didn't go, I think if I stayed in New Zealand and continued the life that I was living, it would have just got worse for me mentally and then I wouldn't have shown up for my family, for my team, for my clients in the best form and way if I didn't go.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's the thing, as advisors, we know.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: The smartest thing with that money is to invest it and continue to invest it and to build our wealth and to make sure that we're spending that money on things we value.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But sometimes we do just need to take a big step back and put ourselves first, and our mental health and our children first, and then we can come back stronger and rebuild.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And go further, that's right, yeah, and go further.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And you know, if I hadn't experienced those things that I experienced, my marriage broke down in lockdown.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: So we're talking five years now.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think I would be on the journey that I'm on now and I don't think I would have the understanding that I have now of, say, the family court system, the biases, the discrepancies, the problems, the systematic issues that I've been working through.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: So I can see this huge gap in the market for advisors that look like you and I, who women want to be able to not just relate to but actually feel heard and understood, and they want someone on their side that knows what they're going through, and I think that's so important.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important so how do we do that?
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: How do we change the environment that we're in?
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: How do we bring more women into the financial advice?
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: And then how do we get more women seeking financial advice?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Because a lot of couples that are coming through at the moment what I'm seeing is usually a woman will take a back seat and it's the man that's driving the conversation right, and she's not speaking.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: She's not speaking because she doesn't know what to say.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: She probably knows and she probably takes it all in, but she just lets him be the one that's making the decisions.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: So how do we get more women to speak up and how can we have more women to help to, you know, to have those conversations?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really really good question.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Look, I think it's a confidence issue, but we also are so used to putting ourselves last, you know we're so used to putting our kids above us, our partners above us, our husbands above us.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: We have to start getting really comfortable with advocating for ourselves and understanding that if we don't, if we're not a part of these decisions, if we don't have our say and we're not realistic about what that means, then it's not going to do us any favors going forward.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: You know it's.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I think we are so far on the back foot in new zealand with equality, particularly between men and women that, uh, you know, women actually have 80 of the spending and in a we actually do manage the budgets, we do organize, we have the mental load, we do the spending, we're buying the groceries, we're buying the clothes, the shoes for the kids, we are paying the bills, but we hand over those bigger items, the planning and the bigger investment side, to men.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And New Zealand's a really interesting culture.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I see it a lot over and over again.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: It's not all men, but some men put their toys first.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So you see the jet ski, the batch, the.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: You know the saying down here goes you know, the batch is on tick, the jet ski is on tick, the boat's on tick, the wife's on tick, which is a little bit controversial.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: But you know, if you start to really look down into it, the women just want to be secure.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: They just want to know they're going to be okay.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: If men are left to those bigger decisions, if the planning is left to the men or the finances are separate or, you know, the control is not with both parties equally, then essentially you know you end up with a division where one is getting more than the other, that the needs of the security don't get met because the priority ends up becoming the toys or the things in life that you know are perceived to be of more value.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So I think we need to give the confidence boost back to the woman.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: We need to say look, you need to be involved with this.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It has to be of equal contribution.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Your say matters, and advisors are really good at coming in and saying hang on a minute.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: What about you?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: What do you want?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And it's almost like an advisor is someone who can come in and give permission for the woman to speak.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: You know they can come in and they can say hang on a minute.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: You know that's great that you want these things here, but long term, I can see this is important to you.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So how are we going to come up with joint goals?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: How are we going to get those goals to a platform where everyone is okay with what you're working towards?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it certainly is a confidence issue and and that is down to, I think, um being comfortable in a relationship to advocate for ourselves for a start, uh, and understand the importance of that, and then, once we're at a level where you know an advisor can come in, that advisor can help with those setting those goals where they need to actually be set.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And I see it over and over again the wife comes in, the husband says, oh no, no, she'll just agree with what I want, or she stays silent.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And actually you know, oh no, my wife isn't with me.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: You know I make the decisions for this family.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Hang on a minute, it's funny.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: You know, what I've noticed through my career in finance is that the first relationships often go like that it's usually the man that does all the speaking, the woman does all the listening.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: All it takes is the marriage to break apart, and then the woman to find her voice, and then suddenly she's in the second relationship and then I see the complete opposite.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Then I see, usually the woman come into her power and she's the one talking, she's the one deciding, and then usually the man takes the back seat in the second relationship.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: That's what I've noticed.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's you know, that's great.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, sadly, though, you know, as an advisor, what we're trying to avoid is getting to that point.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Right, correct, we want the balance.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, it took something that big, such as a marriage breakdown, for the woman to find her value and come up and say, hang on, I'm worthy of this, hang on, what I want matters.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, if we can come in at that earlier stage, that's where the value is.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You know, helping to get everyone on the same page, helping each other understand each other's perspectives and viewpoints and understanding what you're working towards, setting realistic goals, but also, uh, goals that you know provide for women in the future, children in the future, you know, because it's not just children either, it's at both ends.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Often, as parents age, it's often the oldest daughter or the woman who end up taking over the responsibility to the parents.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: So you know we're caretakers across the board and you know it's really important to understand that we are at an economic disadvantage If we take time out of the workforce to raise children.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: We're at a disadvantage because our earning ability and our earning power decreases.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: So then there needs to be the what's the word?
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Woman should be empowered.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: You know that woman who's been through the first messy breakup and then becomes empowered.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: And then you know, you see them calling the shots and saying hang on a minute, I don't want to end up in this position again.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You know, it's almost like starting to work with an advisor at the beginning will help women to have the confidence to get to that level before the first marriage breaks down.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: That's what we're aiming for.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I'll jump in here and put my senior advisor hat on.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: You know, for all the newbies that are starting up in our industry, and both for females and males advisors, that my suggestion would be is that if you do get that couple in your room, as you say, you know that young couple, they're in their twenties, they're buying their first home, and the guy does all the talking, like I had just yesterday, and she just sat there and I kept asking her you know, do you have any questions?
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: And she kept turning to him and asking him if he had any questions because, according to her, she knew nothing about finances, right?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: So she's here just to be.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And I said, look, this is why we need you to ask the questions, because you just said it yourself you don't know anything about finances.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You're here to learn and I'm here to coach you through this, so please ask away.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And then suddenly she opened up and suddenly she was saying that she's anxious to buy a house, she's a saver, she's saved, actually for her age.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: She saved over a hundred K in a very short period of time through boosting her KiwiSaver.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And she's a part-time student and she works and she's doing this and that and that.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: So suddenly she was sharing with me way more.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That went to talk about her personality, her upbringing, her traumas, you know, growing up and having that scarcity mindset what if you know?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And as we unpacked every single situation that could go wrong and how they can overcome that, or what the repayments will look like as a worst case scenario, I think that started to give her comfort and I could just see her open up and go oh okay, it's actually not that bad.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: But if I let it go and if I just thought, oh well, he's the one leading the conversation, he's the one with all the questions and she just knows it all, or she just relies on him to know that conversation wouldn't have happened and that wouldn't have empowered her.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: So I think, and as I said, we want both males and females to feel empowered, but it's just, naturally females are the ones to take the back seat and look after everyone else and place their trust.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I think naturally we're more trusting as well.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: So we will trust our companion, our partner, to have the best interest for us.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And naturally you would right You're in a loving relationship, why not?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And as you said, only until things go wrong.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: That's when we go.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on a second.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: What do I know?
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: What did I miss?
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: How can?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I fix it and that trust is a big word.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Actually, trust is something I see from time and time again.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: You know I I might have a young woman in my um office when I was given financial advice who would come in and say I've signed a contracting out agreement.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I have put the emotional workload into this relationship but now I am walking out with nothing.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think men protect their interest and as women we have to do the same.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: We have to elevate ourselves to understand that we're worth protecting too.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And it breaks my heart to have these young women sitting in the office realizing they've been played or realizing they're walking out of a relationship not protected by the Relationship Property Act anymore, which they would have got a lot more from, because they've signed a piece of paper which at the time they trusted their partner.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: You know to have their best interest at heart too, and you know they're walking away with essentially their trust broken, their hearts broken, having to start again from scratch.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think when we start to really look down the line of the trust side, you know it's not always going to be 50-50.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: If a relationship breaks up, there are provisions in place for a reason and often it's the men who have put them there.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: So we need to start just thinking about how can we protect ourselves, how can we protect what we bring into this relationship.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: You know that woman who said I've saved $100,000.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic, but that's $100,000 that she's worked hard for blood, sweat and tears.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You know sacrifices, so have these conversations.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: You know what if?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: this doesn't work out.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: How are we going to protect that for you, it's not greedy or selfish to ask those questions.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: As women, you know we have to understand that we're coming into these dynamics from a trusting perspective, but it doesn't always work out like that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: So you know, trust is a big thing to discuss and talk about, absolutely.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to have those conversations when you are in a loving, trusting relationship.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You know, as they say, discuss those things when things are good, not when they're bad, because once they're bad, there is no coming back from it and from bad to worst.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Right At that point you can't really agree, you can't really see eye to eye because there is hurt egos, there is all sorts of things that could have happened in that relationship that prevent you from sitting down and talking to each other.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: So, when you are in the beginning of your relationship and when things are fantastic, this is the time to actually go and sort that out and I think, yes, the best time absolutely this time.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, and and that's where an advisor can help as well, you know, you can blame it on the advisor.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: My advisor said my advisor suggested we need to go and speak to a lawyer.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: The advisor said and actually, that's the beauty of bringing a third party into these dynamics.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: They are emotional, they are linked to our trauma as children, they are linked to our trauma as adults.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not always going to be a very straightforward, simple exchange of logical and that's logical.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So therefore we have a logical agreement together.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Money is emotional and you know that that's why people fight in relationships about money.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: So well, it's not actually about the money.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: So all the other things around, the value that someone brings being seen, being heard.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: So you know that the advantage of bringing an advisor in early is most certainly the benefit of, uh, peace of mind and being able to look to the future for these possible scenarios, situations.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And it's not to say that every relationship will break down.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You know it's, it's.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: There are many people who end up in very loving long-term relationships, who don't end up using things like contracting out agreements.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: But the important thing is you know these things exist for a reason and if they're in place, if the inevitable relationship breaks down in the end, there's a backup there.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: You're not back in a position where, essentially, you've got no protections in place for what you brought into that relationship.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You know, the way I see it, sarah, is, if we were to draw an analogy, I think it's like having a car that has the safety bags in it, the airbags right.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: It's not that every car we buy we think will end up in an accident.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Not at all right, and we drive as safe as possible, we obey the rules, but if the accident were ever to happen, you want to be in the safest car possible.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: You want to have those airbags coming at you from all directions, right, you want it to protect you.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: So I think, in my opinion, it's an analogy of the relationship contracting out of agreements or getting that independent financial advice or legal advice, et cetera, et cetera.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: So it's basically putting yourself in the most safest vehicle you can have, not because you want to crash, but because if you do crash, you are safe, as safe as you can be.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And the reality of women's situations are that we often do take time out of the workforce to raise a family.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: We often are economically disadvantaged in the long term.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: You know, we have the gender pay gap, we have the pink tax.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on let's stop here, stop here, stop here, the gender gap pie.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: We have to address the elephant in the room.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's address the elephant in the room and I have to ask you what's your opinion on what's just happened in new zealand?
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: In the government, the budget was announced and there was a massive, massive cut right aimed at that payout that everyone was promised was 12 billion, I believe.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: What's your opinion?
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: oh, this is something that breaks my heart.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: It absolutely breaks my heart because there are many, many women in these roles in particular, who are now going to miss out on, essentially, a pay rise that they were promised or working towards.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: It is stealing money from the most vulnerable and sadly, sadly, you know, they don't really have a foot to stand on now.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: So it's, you know, the teachers, the midwives, it's the ones who the industries that are predominantly dominated by women, who are now not going to get, essentially, value for what they do, and I'm devastated for them.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I'm really devastated for them.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I think they've done so much work in the space just to have it all pulled out from under them.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, to me it brings us to that initial point that we've discussed that women are the majority of spenders.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: They are the ones that keeping the economy going, if you look at it from that perspective.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So you've just taken away money from the majority of people that actually spend.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: So how are you supposed to get the economy going if you're taking away the money for them to spend?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: It blows my mind.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it, you're right.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: You know the majority of that money would have ended up in the hands of women who would have been spending it and that is now not going to be flowing into the economy You're bang on.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And also it means that you know it takes away the money too that they could be investing and spending and putting into their KiwiSaver and using to better themselves and their families.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And you know you give money to women and they do smart things with it, but we can't do smart things with what we haven't got.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And that's where the KiwiSaver cut to the government's cut.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: How much they watch down to 25 cents, from 50 cents up to their limit.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And it's heartbreaking because I have had so many conversations with stay-at-home mums saying, hey, do you realise if you put this amount in, you're going to get this back?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: It is the very minimum you should be doing and they don't even think about that.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, you're right.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: As a stay-at-home mum, this over the years will compound into huge amounts of money and it's the one thing I can do.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And now that's been cut.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So you know, I look at who's impacted by that the most and I think actually stay-at-home mums are hugely impacted by that change and it's heartbreaking.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking because it's once again women who are taking the majority of the hit.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, 100%, agree, 100%.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And you know, and this is where again I'm putting my head on as a chair of the Women in Financial Advice Committee that we formed recently under Financial Advice New Zealand, and I think what can we do?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: How can we pull our weight in?
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: We've got a seat at the table now, thanks, nick.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: But what can we do?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: How can we bring our collective female power to have our voices heard?
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And, as you say, it saddens me, it breaks my heart, because I've got a daughter and I look at her and I wonder what sort of future she will have.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And if she didn't have two financially savvy parents, what future would she have?
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Like, at least we've got, you know, kiwisaver going for her, we've got Sharesies account for kids going for her, we've got various other things going on the background.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, if she didn't have that, what sort of future would she have?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: And then I look around me and I realize this is the future majority of her friends will have, you know, if we don't educate their parents now.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: So, and I think, when you make it relatable back to yourself, back to your own circumstances, and you understand the pain of the everyday consumer, then you know okay, this is the steps I need to take to move them forward.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And it's those conversations that we have right at the rugby field standing next to mums.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Most of those conversations actually don't happen in the office.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I often find those conversations happen at the kinder pick-up and drop-off, at the school pick-up and drop-off at the sports fields, and I would assume it's the same for you.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, very much.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I have one daughter as well, and in fact I'm very, very passionate about just having these random conversations about money and equality and fairness.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And I remember the first time I said to her do you know what the gender pay gap is?
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I said do you think it's fair that, as a girl, you get paid less money for doing the exact same job as a boy?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: She turned to me and she said are you kidding me, ma, you know.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So you know it's having these conversations, bringing these things out and saying how are we going to fix this?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Um, but it's, you're right, those conversations happen on the sideline.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: What I would like to see from an advisor perspective is more women in this industry, and I think we really need to start to explain what financial advisors do to people so they're interested in it as a career.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great job for mums.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: It's flexible.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Often you're self-employed and you're your contracting, so the hours you sit around your kids, if your kids are homesick, you can accommodate that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: But the more representation we get in this industry too, the more woman we get sitting in front of a woman, the better we will be, because we will have more conversations with people that really get us and understand us than, uh, people who potentially may not.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So you know I I am all for advocating in this space.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: The entry point is is quite simple uh, you know it's not a huge qualification to do to get um into financial advice, but the flexibility and being able to work around families and children has been speaking to other women in the space has been absolutely huge.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: You know, for them to be able to essentially work and, you know, have family lives that they can manage and juggle.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think something like 26% of advisors are women.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so roughly one in four.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: But we have 50% of the population is women.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: So you know, let's get that up.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I'm hugely advocating in this space not just to bring more women in, particularly women with life skills.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You know, women that can relate to woman, woman who who get it and see it and understand the situation that's in front of them because they've lived.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It's lived experience.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Um, you know it's.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: It's huge if we could get more women in.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: But then also from the other perspective, from a consumer perspective, we need to really do a better job at explaining the value that we bring as advisors so people understand the big questions what's it going to cost me, how does it work?
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: What value do I get in exchange for this?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: So I think we have a challenge on both sides.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I would love to see more women enter this space.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I would love to see more women understand just how amazing it is, particularly if they have families to work around, or what a great career and profession financial advice is, but also from the other perspective, the importance of getting it and why, and the value, because often it's not actually about what should I stick my money into.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It's about all of those other things.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's about.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: It's about all of those other things.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: It's about sorry you go.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It's the interpersonal skills as well.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: You know one of my best advisors.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: She is actually a beauty therapist and we found majority of our clients because she still does it as a side job majority of her clients come from that table.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: You know, they travel from her table to my table and it's awesome because what it means is that she's able to build that rapport with them as she's providing a beauty treatment.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's natural right, when we go for a treatment we're relaxed and we talk to our hairdressers.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: You know they often say hairdressers are the best therapists.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: We talk to our beauticians, we talk to, you know, whoever is say hairdressers are the best therapists.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: We talk to our beauticians, we talk to, you know, whoever is there with us in that relaxed surrounding and we can let go.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: And usually those people are the ones that have those interpersonal skills.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: They've got empathy, they've got good listening skills and they're actually usually good with numbers, because I mean a hairdresser should be good with numbers when they're mixing your coloring.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So if they get that wrong, you'll end up orange.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, what I find is that often those women in the beauty therapy as a hairdresser they get to a certain age in their career and then they start having problems right, they have problems with their wrists, they have problems with their backs, their necks, et cetera, because the job is physically demanding.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: So then they start looking okay, what else can I do?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And they feel at a loss because they feel like what they've done all their life is all they know.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: But if we can show them that look, as a mom to young kids, you can actually now shift from this physically demanding career to mentally demanding career, but at the same time providing that value that you already have.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: You already have those skills.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: All you have to learn is just the bank's policies or the investment products or the insurance products, whichever strain they go in.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: You know I think that's what we need to be showing as well that it is possible to switch the careers once you turn 35, 40, et cetera.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: In fact, I think that around 30 plus is a fantastic time to enter into financial advice.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You've got an understanding of how money works, you've got an understanding of life skills and you're in a position often where you're either looking to buy a house or you've got commitments and dependents, independence, um, and bringing those life skills, like you said uh, you know, you, that they have the soft skills um into this environment is massive.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Cannot teach soft skill, yeah and women are good at it.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Great at it, we're great at building rapport and trust and we're great at explaining situations in a way that someone can understand, which is huge in financial advice the jargon, the information, the assumptions.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: You know if you go and see an advisor, it can be like they're talking Chinese to you.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: It's very, very challenging sometimes to get bits of information out that you actually need that apply to your situation in a way that you can understand sometimes.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So you know you're right, you know there are massive opportunities in this space and I think we need to start to blow the trumpet and say to more women you know, have you thought about a career in financial advice?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Have you thought about coming into this space?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: You know, do you understand that the entry point is actually reasonably accessible?
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And you know you would do really well in this field because you have the soft skills, you have the negotiation skills.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: You know you have the understanding that's needed for advisors to do well.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: And Sarah, you would agree with this with me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: If you're a mom of multiple children, or even of one, you've got the best negotiation skills right.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: It comes with the territory.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Have you ever tried to negotiate with a toddler?
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Right yeah.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: And if you've nailed that, go on.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: You know, negotiating with a difficult client will be like a walk in the park.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I think you know I've difficult client.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: It will be like a walk in the park.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I think you know I've got four children right and sometimes we have very difficult clients and often I take over from my team and I deal with those clients and they go oh my god, you've done it with such ease and grace and you know.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And then the client just provides us with all the documents or anything that we needed, while before the client, would you know, bit like no, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that, but because I have experience of dealing with at least four different personalities in my household and all of them went through toddler age and one of them is entering teenage years.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm a master negotiator at this point, where I constantly have to break out fights.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And you know, one person has more cookies than me, or you've given more chocolate to that one.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: There's constant battles, even if you treat them exactly the same.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: There's constant battles.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So I find, because I deal with that daily, when I come to my workspace dealing with difficult clients, it's like, meh, that's fine.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You're not wrong, and one of my biggest gripes is actually how much we undervalue women's work, and particularly in the home.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: You know, you've seen I see it right through government policies, right through how family units are set up.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: We really undervalue the work that women do in the home, actually in the workforce too.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: You know, sadly it goes into the workforce, which is why we're underpaying a lot of areas that a woman dominates.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: But you're right, you know, one of those things that we get as mothers is the soft skills, the negotiation, negotiation skills, the life skills to navigate really challenging situations.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: That when we get in front of adults, who, who may need some of those skills presented to them, it's it's, it's something that is is you can cross.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: You know that those skills come into it, so so.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: So you're right, and, and as advisors, I kind of think of an advisor as not a therapist, not a therapist at all, and we're definitely not qualified in that space but someone who has to bring a lot of very carefully, bring a lot of very challenging elements out to get the most of a situation in front of them.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: And that means some very careful wording and some very careful negotiation between couples.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: And you know those, those skills, you, you have to learn them.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: They're not something that is just.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: You can't just apply, uh, without having the soft skills to start with.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: So, yep, I agree, the parenting is actually a life hack for advisors to transition across to dealing with some very challenging situations at times.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: You know sometimes I joke about that.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: The best accident that happened to me was getting into the finance industry, because I did get into it by accident.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I was going to actually study part-time my counseling degree.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to become a therapist and go down the counseling route and then during my studies I've discovered that the studies were all online.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: So I had to find something to do because I couldn't just stay put and I quit my job.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: So I was like all right, what am I going to do?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: And I've applied for several jobs and one of them was a banking role and I ended up getting a job at the bank as a teller.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: So at the age of 24, 24, 25.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've never thought to myself I will end up in finances, but I just loved it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I just loved the aspect of being able to help people, you know, and every situation was different, like as a teller especially.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I wish I'd written a book back then, as some of my friends were suggesting, because I'd come home every day and I'd have this amazing, bizarre stories of the situations you had to resolve at the telecounter right.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And back then, the banks it was pre-COVID, the banks were way busier than they are now.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: So people will turn up and they will ask for X, y, z, and then you have to sort this and that.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, this is so cool, how can I go back to being a counselor, how can I?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: While I was studying, and then I also discovered I was pregnant.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: So I was doing my studies, I was pregnant and then I was working at the bank.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh my God, where do I see myself?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: What do I want to do?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And then I realized, the more I asked myself, that question is I want to stay in the bank, I want to help more people, and I probably would have stayed in the bank until forever if this opportunity didn't come up and landed at my feet, sort of thing to run with it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: But this was sold to me as a dream to work part-time from home because I just had my child number three, which was another amazing accident of my life and to stay home and work from home and look after the kids.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And I said, oh yeah, that sounds cool, I could manage that and I did.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I did manage.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know how I did it back then, but I did manage.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: There was no family support, there was no village, so to speak, because we've just moved to a new city.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: So I feel like every time I look back at my journey and I think, gosh, how did I do it all?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: But I did it.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: And I look at the women around me that I think will be amazing financial advisors.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like just believe in yourself, you can do this.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: For one, you have less kids than me.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: For two, you've got all the amazing soft skills that I never really gained, so to speak, you know, being a hairdresser or a beautician or whatever.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you have those skills.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I just developed them, I think, as I worked in university with students.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: So it's, how do we empower those women to believe in themselves?
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think this is where the role of this podcast is coming into play these are the conversations we're having right now, to at least start something, because I always say if you want the change, be the change right, be the one driving it.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And actually I think you underestimate the skill set you obtain, the soft skill set you obtained, and negotiation skills that you obtain working at the bank, those crazy situations you found yourself in.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You know that that's an integral, essentially, of working in retail.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And, gosh, working in retail is one of those, uh, areas where you're actually just managing people.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're managing people.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's sales skills, so you pick up some sales skills too, but you're managing people and that's where the soft skills come in.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: So you would have gained crazy stories, but also crazy experience.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Oh and I, we can't overlook that experience over the years that we gain from these different roles that we play.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: But but you're right, um, you know we do need to get creative.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I had to get creative.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I went through a divorce and COVID and you know I had two young children that at the time I had almost full time and I didn't have an option but to be creative, because they had to attend a school that was at the bottom of the southern alps, an hour from the city.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: They still do attend a school very far out of the city.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I can't have a nine to five job.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: There's no child care out there.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I don't have family support, so for me, being creative means making sure that my work fits around my family and the flexibility I need, and I feel so incredibly grateful that I can turn up to my kids, cross-country events and fundraising events and do the sausages when I need to, and you know it's a privilege to be able to have that time and that flexibility, particularly when I do not have the family support either.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: So it's, you know, it's one of these jobs that I think we need to take a second look at it around, how this fits in with our lifestyles.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: The nine to five doesn't work for everybody.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work for me, it most likely won't work for you, and you need that flexibility.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: You've got a sick kid this day.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: You need to be able to not come in.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: It's just as mums what we have to do, and if we understand that we can take the skill set we already have and we can apply that really well to this role and this job and we still get the flexibility and we still get the income we need, actually, this is a really cool role for a lot of moms and a lot of parents and a lot of women who may want to have families in the future families in the future.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I realized that when my kid turned around to me one day and he said do you realize you're the only parent that always turns up to all of my things?
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: And I mean, that's hard to ask.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: You know, when there's three kids at school and now four of them at school, and that you know that meant driving to gymnastics every week, and sometimes it could be Monday one child, tuesday, another child, you child, thursday, another kid.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And then I turn up to all the Taekwondo practices and I turn up to all the things.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: But it's amazing because I thought I felt guilty.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I thought they see me on my phone all the time.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Right, because I'm always on my phone.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I'm solving world problems, putting out fires, and before I even had a team, it was always me.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So I had to be on call and a lot of my clients were quite understanding If they heard a baby crying in the background.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I would give them warning beforehand when they would be dealing with me.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I would often say look, I'm a busy mom, I've got young family, I would definitely get you sorted all your finances.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But if you call me and then if there's a kid crying in the background, I apologize in advance.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: And clients that understand, those are the types of clients you want to work with anyway, and the ones that don't understand, you don't want them as a client.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: That was my rule and I was very fortunate that through the years all my clients were very, very understandable and still are, and I love them to bits for that.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: But to me it was awesome to hear from my kids that no, mom, you don't, you hardly work, and I was like, really I hardly work.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: So it was awesome.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I could have got offended because I feel like I work 24, seven sometimes, but it was awesome to hear from my child perspective they didn't see me constantly on my phone replying to emails, talking to clients, talking to banks, that they see me present at all of the activities.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: They see their mom there at cross country, you know, and things like that.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: So sausage sizzles, all those things you know and and that made me smile, that made me proud, that made me feel like, okay, because you, you carry that mom guilt right, you carry that guilt of am I enough for my kids?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Am I doing enough so that?
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: was awesome yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: That is amazing to hear, because not everybody gets the privilege and the opportunity to be able to show up like that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And, like you said, the mum guilt is real.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, the clients that you work with who get it are the ones you want to work with and you know your kids are seeing you turn up.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: They're not seeing you on a phone, on a laptop making it work.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: And I know the juggle's real.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: The juggle is real, it is hard work, but it's interesting.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: It's mindset too, because you're saying I feel guilty, I'm always on a phone, my kids would see me from the phone perspective, but your kids are saying no, saying no, no, I see you turning up and being present and valuing what I do and seeing me and hearing me and you know that that is the beauty about doing what we do.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: We can turn up, be seen and heard and our kids see that um and yes, like sometimes we are still doing emails at 11 o'clock at night when they've been asleep for three hours.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not all.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: You know roses and fairy tales.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: It is still work, but at the end of the day it's flexible and we get set.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing right.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: We can dictate those hours, as you've said just in a few minutes ago that it's not 9 to 5.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: 9 to 5 will not fit and it does not fit a lot of families.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: And I think this is what we realize after COVID that the more flexibility you give to your staff, the better they actually work and if they can set their own terms, they will give you three times more back.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like when people actually feel empowered to manage their energies not their time they will feel like they are more productive versus being forced to be where they don't want to be at the time they don't want to be doing work.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: So it's that balancing act and I think it comes again back to the trust.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: So emotions, trust, money, it's all interconnected and and this is the conversations we should be having and, sarah, honestly, it was such a delight to to have someone like minded, like me to open up about and you know voicing out that the challenges are all the same across the board, whether you in South Island and I'm in the North Island, whether I'm from New Zealand.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: You know I'm from New Zealand and I'm not.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: You know you have two kids, I have four kids.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: But the challenges are the same.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: We're all humans having the same human experience.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: So if you're sitting out there listening to this podcast and you think, oh my God, what do I want to do with my life?
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: And if you've got all the skills you probably have, reach out.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: You know, look, look who is in your town, look who is looking for a financial advisor.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Even if you want to start at the bank I know the banks are looking for staff constantly.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: You know, look at that career change.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: We want you in our industry.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: We want to help you, and the good thing about being under the fans umbrella here's I'm plugging in fans is that we've got this mentorship group that we formed right.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: We want to help more women.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: We want to mentor you.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: We want to see you do well, because if you do well, your family will do well, your kids will be happier, your neighbors will be happier, your friends will be happier because they would have got much better financial advice than they wouldn't have got otherwise.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: So that's my message for today.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: That's wonderful.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Well, look, thank you for having me.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: It's been an absolute delight having this conversation.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put another plug in for Financial Advice New Zealand, or FANS as we call it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Fans are incredibly supportive.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I have been on board with them since the beginning and we are putting together groups around New Zealand that will help to support women coming into financial advice, and there are plenty of mentors.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: There are plenty of people in advice who are happy just to sit down and have a coffee.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: So if it's something that you're interested in, get in touch with an advisor, get in touch with Financial Advice New Zealand.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Say hey, I'd really like to just have a chat, and there are plenty of people out there who would love to be able to support and help to answer any questions.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fantastic, sarah.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much and I look forward to seeing you sometime this year, hopefully when I visit Christchurch next time.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: And until then, good luck with all your studies and I can't wait to see where your journey is taking you in the financial advice thank you watch the space awesome.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Take care, have a lovely, lovely week ahead.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Bye-bye thank you, see you, see you later.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: How long did I talk for Jesus?
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like it was an hour.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: It was an hour, wasn't it?
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah?