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Are You Tired of Being Tired? · Millennial Mental Health Channel

0:03
Speaker 1: Well, oh, just see a little tired today, but ready
0:09
Speaker 1: to record a podcast.
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Speaker 2: Oh are we going to leave that in? Or is
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Speaker 2: that like it was a bit we should proably, we
0:15
Speaker 2: should probably cut that out right.
0:17
Speaker 1: Got it out, I'll edit it in the posts.
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Speaker 2: Don't worry.
0:22
Speaker 1: This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
0:25
Speaker 1: a Child and Adolescent psychiatry fellow.
0:27
Speaker 2: And I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast is
0:30
Speaker 2: here because we wanted to start a much neater conversation
0:33
Speaker 2: about mental health.
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Speaker 1: Our goal is to teach you as much as we
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Speaker 1: can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
0:39
Speaker 1: the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
0:42
Speaker 1: psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
0:46
Speaker 2: Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
0:50
Speaker 2: you enjoy. Today's episode.
0:52
Speaker 1: MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia.
0:57
Speaker 2: I Heart Mia.
1:00
Speaker 1: So if you couldn't tell from my very cheesy introduction,
1:03
Speaker 1: we are talking about tiredness and probably the title of
1:06
Speaker 1: the episode will hint you off as well. But there's
1:10
Speaker 1: a reason why we want to talk about this, and
1:11
Speaker 1: I always kind of try to base these podcast episodes
1:15
Speaker 1: on something that's actually going on in real life. And
1:17
Speaker 1: it seems like every single patient that I talked to,
1:21
Speaker 1: I go out in the waiting room and I ask like, hey,
1:23
Speaker 1: how's it going, how are you doing, And almost every
1:25
Speaker 1: single one I'm tired.
1:27
Speaker 2: I'm just really tired.
1:29
Speaker 1: I was like, there was a day where every single
1:32
Speaker 1: patient told me that, and I was just like, what
1:34
Speaker 1: is going on? Why does everyone feel so tired? So
1:37
Speaker 1: I started doing some diving on it, and yeah, it
1:42
Speaker 1: does appear that people are feeling more tired than ever.
1:46
Speaker 2: I feel like that's the teen emotion, like that is
1:49
Speaker 2: even though it's not an emotion. Yeah, I get the
1:51
Speaker 2: same exact thing. How's it going, Oh, pretty tired? How
1:55
Speaker 2: much did you sleep last night? Well? I was up
1:58
Speaker 2: late because and it's tough, you know. I feel for teens.
2:02
Speaker 2: I think back to high school time. You got sports,
2:05
Speaker 2: you got extracurriculars. Some kids have a zero period. You
2:09
Speaker 2: get to school at like seven o'clock in the morning,
2:11
Speaker 2: seven thirty in the morning, you're in school till three
2:14
Speaker 2: thirty ish. You go to practice, or you go to work.
2:17
Speaker 2: You don't get work, get home from work until like seven,
2:19
Speaker 2: eight or nine, You get home, you eat dinner, it's
2:22
Speaker 2: nine thirty, and then it's time to go to bed.
2:25
Speaker 2: We are you supposed to do homework or are's supposed
2:27
Speaker 2: to study? So yeah, I feel for kids, especially because
2:31
Speaker 2: we might talk about it, but you know as well
2:33
Speaker 2: as I do, justin that, like kids need more sleep
2:35
Speaker 2: now than they probably do at other points in their life,
2:38
Speaker 2: like as they're getting older and they're not really getting it.
2:40
Speaker 2: So constant fatigue, for sure is out there.
2:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just kids too. Back in February, Time
2:48
Speaker 1: magazine released an article titled why are We more Exhausted
2:52
Speaker 1: than Ever? And they actually called this period of time
2:55
Speaker 1: in American history the Great Exhaustion.
2:57
Speaker 2: Oh this is getting ridiculous. Come on.
3:01
Speaker 1: According to the article, people are feeling so tired that
3:04
Speaker 1: they are actually deprioritizing their hobbies and things like getting exercise,
3:09
Speaker 1: so it's actually changing their lifestyle choices.
3:12
Speaker 2: One source from the health and safety magazine dot Com
3:14
Speaker 2: published a survey that showed in twenty twenty two, three
3:18
Speaker 2: out of five adults said they were more tired now
3:20
Speaker 2: than they ever have been. A couple other interesting findings
3:23
Speaker 2: included working from home during the pandemic interrupted sleep cycles.
3:28
Speaker 2: As I was reading and getting ready for this, one
3:30
Speaker 2: thought I had was that midday nap that are probably
3:33
Speaker 2: a lot of people are squeezing in. If you're not
3:35
Speaker 2: as tired later in the day, right, that's got to
3:38
Speaker 2: be part of it, right, Or or you stay up
3:41
Speaker 2: a little later because I don't got to wake up
3:42
Speaker 2: until five minutes before it's time to work. I don't
3:44
Speaker 2: need to have my camera on for the meeting. I
3:46
Speaker 2: don't know. That might be part of it. The other
3:50
Speaker 2: piece is that a Gallup poll from April twenty twenty
3:53
Speaker 2: four showed that more than half of Americans feel like
3:56
Speaker 2: they need more sleep, which is the first time that
3:58
Speaker 2: this has happened. Surveys showed that most people felt like
4:02
Speaker 2: they were getting in sufficient sleep. So something is shifting.
4:04
Speaker 2: Our societal culture is shifting, and we're trying to figure
4:08
Speaker 2: out what that is.
4:09
Speaker 1: It's always hard to try and find a direct causal
4:13
Speaker 1: relationship because it's hard to do randomized, double blind, controlled
4:18
Speaker 1: studies on the entire population. But we have some ideas,
4:22
Speaker 1: and there's some things that we found online that might
4:24
Speaker 1: be somewhat helpful for if you're feeling like it's hard
4:28
Speaker 1: to get enough sleep, like you're really tired. We're hoping
4:31
Speaker 1: that this helps you.
4:32
Speaker 2: So some of those things include things like anemia. What
4:36
Speaker 2: is anemia.
4:37
Speaker 1: Anemia is actually not having enough red blood cells, so
4:40
Speaker 1: you're not getting enough oxygen to your tissues, so you
4:43
Speaker 1: feel a little bit more tired. Some of the other
4:46
Speaker 1: medical causes of feeling really tired. And it seems like
4:49
Speaker 1: most people are tired not from medical causes, but it's
4:51
Speaker 1: important to recognize that there are a lot of medical
4:54
Speaker 1: causes that can make you feel chronic fatigue and tired.
4:58
Speaker 1: Another really common one is thyroid issues like hypothyroidism. Your
5:02
Speaker 1: thyroid is too low and your thyroid is a little
5:05
Speaker 1: butterfly shaped gland that sits at the base of your neck,
5:08
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like your thermostat for your body.
5:11
Speaker 1: Too high and you got too much energy and you're
5:12
Speaker 1: cranking all the time, and too low is you're really
5:15
Speaker 1: slow and you don't have enough energy. I saw a
5:18
Speaker 1: man who had literally taken medicine to ablate his thyroid
5:22
Speaker 1: get rid of his thyroid, which is used they used
5:24
Speaker 1: to do that in the past for like thyroid cancer,
5:28
Speaker 1: and then that he forgot to take his thyroid medicine
5:32
Speaker 1: after he had gotten rid of his thyroid and he
5:35
Speaker 1: was literally talking like oh shit. It was like, no way,
5:40
Speaker 1: that is such a crazy thing to see.
5:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, another possible medical cause could be sleep apnea. So
5:46
Speaker 2: that is when correct me wherever I'm wrong, justin But
5:48
Speaker 2: when you're sleeping snoring, and then at some points, because
5:53
Speaker 2: of like the snoring and the way that you're sleeping,
5:56
Speaker 2: you essentially stop breathing and then you like wake and
5:59
Speaker 2: wake up from it. People that have sleep apnea end
6:02
Speaker 2: up like not having very RESTful sleep throughout the night.
6:05
Speaker 2: Just imagine that, Like you're waking up every so often,
6:08
Speaker 2: you're not breathing, so then you wake up, you have
6:11
Speaker 2: all these times of waking up. You're not really falling
6:13
Speaker 2: into those deeper stages of sleep, so you're not really
6:15
Speaker 2: getting any rest, and then that in itself can have
6:18
Speaker 2: a lot more longer term health problems. Does that sound
6:21
Speaker 2: about right? That was perfect?
6:23
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, And I have seen cases where sleep apnea
6:27
Speaker 1: does really impact people's lives. I had a case way
6:31
Speaker 1: back in the day of a guy with bipolar disorder
6:34
Speaker 1: who had really bad sleep apnea, or when his sleep
6:37
Speaker 1: apnea was not under control. So he wasn't getting enough
6:40
Speaker 1: oxygen to his brain and he's not getting enough good sleep.
6:43
Speaker 1: His bipolar was way out of control more than normal.
6:46
Speaker 1: So it can really impact your life, especially if you
6:49
Speaker 1: have some of these mental health diagnoses.
6:51
Speaker 2: And then the very last one is depression. Depression definitely
6:54
Speaker 2: can have an impact on your feelings of exhaustion, just
6:59
Speaker 2: your overall all everything, right. I think a lot of
7:01
Speaker 2: people will discount how much depression can impact you physically,
7:06
Speaker 2: how much it can make you feel tired all of
7:10
Speaker 2: the time. So you have people who end up trying
7:11
Speaker 2: to sleep all day and just aren't even getting feeling
7:14
Speaker 2: like they're rested enough because of things like because of
7:17
Speaker 2: being depressed and feeling like no matter what you do
7:20
Speaker 2: to get rest, it's just not enough.
7:21
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about sleep. Because people
7:24
Speaker 1: think that your brain shuts off during sleep. That's kind
7:27
Speaker 1: of a misconception because it's actually a very active process.
7:33
Speaker 1: Even though we spend about a third of our live sleeping,
7:36
Speaker 1: we still have a lot to learn about sleep. We
7:38
Speaker 1: think sleep is a way to conserve energy, it's a
7:41
Speaker 1: time to heal the body and the brain. Sleep also
7:45
Speaker 1: helps us convert our short term memories into long term memory,
7:48
Speaker 1: which I just learned from watching the movie Inside Out,
7:51
Speaker 1: great Pixar film. The recommended sleep time by age are
7:57
Speaker 1: as follows, and this is according to the Cleveland Clinic.
8:00
Speaker 1: Children at age one to five should get ten to
8:02
Speaker 1: fourteen hours per night of sleep.
8:05
Speaker 2: You have ages six to twelve should it get about
8:08
Speaker 2: nine to twelve hours of sleep.
8:10
Speaker 1: Ages thirteen through eighteen should get eight to ten.
8:14
Speaker 2: And then eighteen up. Anywhere between seven and nine hours
8:17
Speaker 2: is good. I will say that eight to ten hours
8:20
Speaker 2: for that thirteen to eighteen range, the range that you
8:23
Speaker 2: and I primarily work with. They are not hitting that.
8:27
Speaker 2: Maybe some are, but there are a lot of kids
8:30
Speaker 2: who are. And again for the same reasons that I
8:33
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier. If you're in school, say you have a
8:35
Speaker 2: zero period. See you don't have zero period. You get
8:37
Speaker 2: to school at eight o'clock, you leave at three thirty,
8:39
Speaker 2: You got practice all these things. It's ten, eleven, twelve
8:43
Speaker 2: o'clock by the time you're done with homework and whatever
8:46
Speaker 2: else you had to do, probably even later. You try
8:48
Speaker 2: to go to sleep, wake up at seven, so you
8:50
Speaker 2: have enough time to shower, get ready to eat breakfast. It's
8:53
Speaker 2: only seven hours of sleep. You do that for an
8:55
Speaker 2: extended period of time as a teenager, you're really missing
8:57
Speaker 2: out on the amount of sleep you.
8:59
Speaker 1: Need, and especial for teenagers and kids that sleep is
9:02
Speaker 1: so important for your brain development too. So that's a
9:06
Speaker 1: lot in the thirteen to eighteen range, eight to ten
9:09
Speaker 1: hours of sleep is a lot of sleep, but oohy
9:12
Speaker 1: is it good for you? And yeah, most people, I ask,
9:14
Speaker 1: it's more like six to seven hours of sleep in
9:17
Speaker 1: that age range, and that's just not nearly enough.
9:20
Speaker 2: I had a friend in high school it's still, for
9:22
Speaker 2: instance this day, consistently did not get a good amount
9:25
Speaker 2: of sleep, like you would be getting text from him
9:28
Speaker 2: at very late hours. And I think that even extended
9:32
Speaker 2: into college of like not sleeping with He's just kind
9:35
Speaker 2: of like one of those night our guys. But he's
9:37
Speaker 2: like one of the fittest guys I know, biking and
9:40
Speaker 2: running and doing all these things. So I guess that's
9:43
Speaker 2: the other thing to point out is that just because
9:45
Speaker 2: these are recommendations, there are some people that can function
9:49
Speaker 2: really well at different amounts of sleep. And I don't
9:52
Speaker 2: know if we can ever really explain why, but they
9:54
Speaker 2: just are somehow able to manage and it's not really
9:57
Speaker 2: having huge negative impacts.
9:58
Speaker 1: On them, just physiological gifted. Remember doctor Dave Mader, the
10:04
Speaker 1: vet that we had on the show. In his book,
10:06
Speaker 1: he says that he only gets like four or five
10:08
Speaker 1: hours of sleep every night, and he's like one of
10:10
Speaker 1: the most productive and most brilliant people I think we've
10:13
Speaker 1: ever had on the show.
10:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does it. That's crazy. How wish I would
10:18
Speaker 2: like that? I know.
10:20
Speaker 1: I love all his pictures on Instagram. Go check out
10:22
Speaker 1: after Dave Mader because he's got like swimming with crocodiles,
10:28
Speaker 1: holding giant pythons, these exotic animals. He is just the
10:32
Speaker 1: coolest dude. We gotta go to Florida and hang out
10:34
Speaker 1: with it.
10:36
Speaker 2: He did give us an open invite. We do have
10:38
Speaker 2: to flex that a little bit. We do have an
10:40
Speaker 2: open invite.
10:42
Speaker 1: Because Eddie and I were just talking about how maybe
10:44
Speaker 1: next year it's our fantasy football league's tenth year anniversary,
10:47
Speaker 1: maybe we meet up in Florida and God.
10:50
Speaker 2: Let's go.
10:53
Speaker 1: Oh, that'd be so cool. We could involve like some
10:56
Speaker 1: crazy animals into the into picking our draft draft. Yeah,
11:01
Speaker 1: we got ideas, we got ideas. I love it, So
11:04
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about some of the stages
11:06
Speaker 1: of sleep, because there are multiple stages of sleep, and
11:09
Speaker 1: I think it's important to understand them if you want
11:11
Speaker 1: to get better sleep. So Stage one is usually the
11:14
Speaker 1: first stage of sleep. I guess that's why they call
11:16
Speaker 1: it stage one. It usually only lasts a few minutes.
11:20
Speaker 1: It only accounts for about five percent of your total
11:23
Speaker 1: sleep time, and it's considered a light sleep.
11:27
Speaker 2: Stage two, coming after stage one, accounts for about forty
11:30
Speaker 2: five percent of your sleep time, so it's still considered
11:33
Speaker 2: light sleep. In this stage, your brain activity goes down
11:36
Speaker 2: but then releases large short bursts of electrical activity. We
11:42
Speaker 2: think that this is your brain organizing the information from
11:45
Speaker 2: the day.
11:45
Speaker 1: Stage three is the first stage of deep sleep. It
11:48
Speaker 1: accounts for about twenty five percent a quarter of your
11:51
Speaker 1: total sleep. The older you get, the less deep sleep
11:55
Speaker 1: you get. So stage three typically is the one that
11:58
Speaker 1: helps you feel them most rested. That's why a lot
12:01
Speaker 1: of older people sometimes they'll sleep a long time, but
12:03
Speaker 1: they wake up and stay I still feel tired. It's
12:06
Speaker 1: when your body repairs itself and also replenishes your immune system.
12:11
Speaker 1: So deep sleep is a really important thing for your
12:13
Speaker 1: physical and mental health.
12:15
Speaker 2: I know for me, I'm one of those people and
12:16
Speaker 2: maybe it's like placebo, but like, if I'm starting to
12:19
Speaker 2: not feel well, I have to like go to sleep
12:22
Speaker 2: earlier and I try to like get more sleep than
12:25
Speaker 2: I usually get, and I feel like a lot of
12:27
Speaker 2: the time that just I feel better the next day,
12:30
Speaker 2: and that must be part of it or it really
12:33
Speaker 2: is placebo, and I'm just like telling you I feel better.
12:36
Speaker 2: Hard to know. Yeah. The next one is REM sleep,
12:41
Speaker 2: So this stands for rapid eye movement because early researchers
12:45
Speaker 2: saw that people's eyes move back and forth when it's
12:48
Speaker 2: in this stage of sleep. So REM is when you dream.
12:51
Speaker 2: The brain activity looks a lot like brain activity of
12:54
Speaker 2: being awake, and REM makes up about twenty five percent
12:58
Speaker 2: of your total sleep time.
12:59
Speaker 1: So throughout the people have on average about four to
13:02
Speaker 1: five cycles of sleep, and each one gets longer as
13:06
Speaker 1: you go on, so your first cycle is a little shorter,
13:08
Speaker 1: and then it gets a little longer, a little longer,
13:09
Speaker 1: a little longer. So if you're not getting enough total
13:12
Speaker 1: sleep time, you're not getting into those longer stages with
13:16
Speaker 1: those deep stretches of deep sleep and REM cycles, so
13:22
Speaker 1: you're not feeling as rested if you're not getting as much,
13:25
Speaker 1: because that those last couple hours of sleep are actually
13:27
Speaker 1: the most important.
13:29
Speaker 2: And we wanted to bring up the stages of sleep
13:30
Speaker 2: so you can understand them more and realize that just
13:33
Speaker 2: because you're getting sleep, it doesn't necessarily mean that you
13:36
Speaker 2: get in enough deep sleep and rem sleep. I will
13:38
Speaker 2: take this opportunity to share. I always think of her
13:42
Speaker 2: whenever I think it kind of helped me. So. Doctor
13:45
Speaker 2: Christen Casey has been on the show a couple times.
13:47
Speaker 2: In front of the show, definitely that time we talked
13:49
Speaker 2: with her and she talked about how alcohol impacts her sleep,
13:53
Speaker 2: like was seriously a light bulb moment for me, and
13:57
Speaker 2: it really made it feel like so many clicked, Like
14:01
Speaker 2: all those times that we were in college or grad
14:04
Speaker 2: school and we were partying together and we would drink
14:07
Speaker 2: probably too much, and then we'd go to sleep. There
14:10
Speaker 2: would be times we'd sleep for hours, like go to
14:13
Speaker 2: sleep at two, wake up at twelve, and still feel
14:16
Speaker 2: like ass And it makes sense because the alcohol was
14:20
Speaker 2: impacting us for me being able to really get into
14:22
Speaker 2: that deep sleep. So you're not having that deep in
14:25
Speaker 2: that rem sleep, you're not really resting, you're just in
14:27
Speaker 2: light sleep mode the whole time you're having a really
14:30
Speaker 2: shitty sleep. It made so much sense. I would feel
14:33
Speaker 2: so bad the next morning and not rested because we
14:36
Speaker 2: were just never getting in that deep sleep cycle.
14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, really good point. Alcohol is not great for your sleep,
14:43
Speaker 1: and you know us, we're always talking about the hazards
14:46
Speaker 1: of smartphones on this show, so we wanted to bring
14:49
Speaker 1: that up and how it relates to sleep as well.
14:52
Speaker 1: There was a study from the Journal of Family Medicine
14:54
Speaker 1: and Primary Care Al show Bayili at All twenty nineteen
14:58
Speaker 1: and yes I did practic is that looked at four
15:02
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five adults and this was out of
15:04
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. Cell Phone use before bed led to a
15:07
Speaker 1: decrease in the quality of sleep, So especially if that
15:12
Speaker 1: screen time was an hour or longer, quality of sleep
15:15
Speaker 1: and quantity of sleep goes down because you're also on
15:17
Speaker 1: your phone for a long time. In addition, there are
15:20
Speaker 1: a lot of other studies that I've shown that your
15:22
Speaker 1: phone ringing at night, so people who either have their
15:26
Speaker 1: ringer on or still on vibrate close to them. That
15:28
Speaker 1: also disrupts your sleep cycle and can make your sleep
15:31
Speaker 1: worse too.
15:32
Speaker 2: Who has their phone like on loud. Nowadays, I feel
15:35
Speaker 2: like I never have the ringer on.
15:40
Speaker 1: I have to do it sometimes, like in exercise shorts,
15:43
Speaker 1: which I mostly wear around the house, because I don't
15:45
Speaker 1: feel it vibrating as much. Sure, yeah, and so I
15:48
Speaker 1: sometimes will turn the ring around, especially like my wife
15:51
Speaker 1: will call me and she'd be like, I know your
15:52
Speaker 1: phone is in your pocket, it's just you can't feel it.
15:55
Speaker 1: So I try to do that just to not make
15:57
Speaker 1: my wife.
15:58
Speaker 2: Man fair, totally fair. So, as you can imagine, there are,
16:04
Speaker 2: unfortunately things that happen if you're not getting enough sleep.
16:06
Speaker 2: Negative things that happen because not getting enough good sleep
16:09
Speaker 2: not only makes you tired, there are a lot of
16:11
Speaker 2: other symptoms that come with it. So some symptoms of
16:14
Speaker 2: sleep deprivation are things like slowed reflexes, trouble thinking and concentrating,
16:20
Speaker 2: increased irritability, headaches. I've definitely heard of that for sure,
16:24
Speaker 2: if you're not sleeping enough, a diminished immune system. Again,
16:28
Speaker 2: this is probably anecdotal. This is anecdotal, and it's probably
16:31
Speaker 2: just placebo. But for me, if I'm starting to feel
16:33
Speaker 2: like I'm not feeling well, if I get some extra sleep,
16:35
Speaker 2: I feel like the next morning I feel at least
16:37
Speaker 2: a little better. And then the last one being an
16:40
Speaker 2: increased risk for type two diabetes.
16:42
Speaker 1: And I know personally for me, if I don't get
16:44
Speaker 1: enough sleep, I'm at a higher risk of having a migraine.
16:48
Speaker 1: And this is totally off topic as well, but I
16:52
Speaker 1: realize that I've been using allergy nasal sprays because my
16:56
Speaker 1: allergies have been bad, and I think those have been
16:59
Speaker 1: giving me my range two because I was having them
17:01
Speaker 1: like once a week when they usually only have like
17:03
Speaker 1: once a year. And I'm like, what is going on?
17:05
Speaker 1: Why haven't I having so many? And I looked it
17:07
Speaker 1: up and it's actually a pretty common thing that nasal
17:09
Speaker 1: sprays actually can give you migrtes.
17:11
Speaker 2: Good to know. The more you know, the more.
17:14
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone wanted to know about my nasal sprays.
17:19
Speaker 2: It's actually one of the top things we get asked
17:21
Speaker 2: on Instagram.
17:23
Speaker 1: So there you go. We don't have a name for
17:26
Speaker 1: our our fans, do we like like Swifties? I was
17:31
Speaker 1: going to say, there you go, all the mental heads.
17:34
Speaker 2: There's heads. I like it.
17:41
Speaker 1: It was just off the top of mine. Hey, some
17:46
Speaker 1: tips for getting better sleep. This is also from the
17:49
Speaker 1: Cleveland clinic, keep a consistent sleep schedule. Your body is
17:53
Speaker 1: pretty much programmed to run on a slightly longer than
17:57
Speaker 1: twenty four hour cycle. If you mess with that significantly,
18:02
Speaker 1: it's kind of like jet lag. You're tired when you
18:04
Speaker 1: should be awake, and you're awake when you should be tired.
18:06
Speaker 1: And so the sleep schedule is a very important thing
18:09
Speaker 1: for getting consistent, good RESTful sleep.
18:11
Speaker 2: Making sure that you make time for sleep kind of
18:14
Speaker 2: the same thing with a sleep schedule, but making sure
18:16
Speaker 2: that you are trying to prioritize that as much as possible.
18:20
Speaker 2: I know for some people, work schedules, responsibilities, all these
18:23
Speaker 2: things play a part of like not being able to
18:25
Speaker 2: have a consistent sleep schedule or making time but to
18:28
Speaker 2: the best of your ability, trying to make time for sleep.
18:30
Speaker 1: And a lot of people that I've spoken with about sleep,
18:33
Speaker 1: they say, you know, I've got to do school all day,
18:36
Speaker 1: I've got to do work all day, I've got all
18:37
Speaker 1: these things after school, all these extra curriculars, like I
18:40
Speaker 1: finally get a little bit of time that I can
18:43
Speaker 1: do what I want and playing video games or something.
18:46
Speaker 1: And people tend to choose the things that make sleep
18:49
Speaker 1: the worst, and so they're getting to bed later. All
18:52
Speaker 1: the screen time is bad for your sleep too, and
18:55
Speaker 1: so I get it like I'm the same way. Sometimes
18:58
Speaker 1: I want to stay up a little bit later and
18:59
Speaker 1: do some something fun, but you gotta make time for
19:02
Speaker 1: that sleep.
19:04
Speaker 2: But it's our avoiding bright lights. We've talked about that
19:07
Speaker 2: and electronics. For me, one thing that has kind of
19:10
Speaker 2: been helpful, even though Kevin, I definitely watched tiktoks before bed.
19:13
Speaker 2: But if i feel like I'm having a hard time
19:15
Speaker 2: sleeping or i just can't fall asleep, I'll take out
19:18
Speaker 2: my kindle and I'll read a little bit. And I
19:20
Speaker 2: think because of the e ink and there's a night
19:22
Speaker 2: time mode, it doesn't impact me as much as like
19:25
Speaker 2: a regular screen. So I've noticed that there are times
19:29
Speaker 2: where if I'm not able to fall sleep, I read
19:31
Speaker 2: for like ten twenty minutes, I start to get sleepy,
19:34
Speaker 2: and then I fall asleep right away. Nice.
19:36
Speaker 1: And I'm guilty of looking at my phone too much
19:39
Speaker 1: right before bed. I think pretty much every American is,
19:43
Speaker 1: But I notice I noticed that if I'm on that
19:45
Speaker 1: for a long time, then it takes me a lot
19:47
Speaker 1: longer and fall asleep, especially if I do it in
19:49
Speaker 1: bed too.
19:50
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
19:51
Speaker 1: Another tip on sleep is try not to over rely
19:55
Speaker 1: on medications. The problem with medications is that you can
19:59
Speaker 1: get dependent on those medicines to sleep. And I am
20:02
Speaker 1: a bad example of this because I like melatonin. I
20:06
Speaker 1: like taking melatonin. But luckily melatonin is an all natural
20:10
Speaker 1: thing because your brain makes it, and a lot of
20:13
Speaker 1: sleep medicines can mess with your sleep. But luckily miltonin
20:16
Speaker 1: isn't too bad. But yeah, general recommendation, try not to
20:21
Speaker 1: over rely on medications.
20:31
Speaker 2: I think I've told you this, but I have a
20:32
Speaker 2: bone to pick with melatonin. Have we talked about this.
20:35
Speaker 1: I know it's not ringing a bell.
20:37
Speaker 2: Oh, it's not melatonin's fault. I had an intro to
20:41
Speaker 2: neuroscience class in college, and like many college students, I
20:45
Speaker 2: had a bottle of melatonin in my room. Didn't use
20:48
Speaker 2: it that much, but I had it. It was football season,
20:52
Speaker 2: one of those things where just all day going all
20:54
Speaker 2: the time, didn't having a lot of time for sleep
20:57
Speaker 2: or for studying whatever. In class, we were told that
21:01
Speaker 2: like melatonin, it doesn't necessarily make you sleep longer. It
21:05
Speaker 2: just helps you fall asleep, and that waking up shouldn't
21:08
Speaker 2: be impacted. I said, cool, I'm gonna try this. I
21:12
Speaker 2: took one the next day, could not get out of bed.
21:14
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I missed my morning class and ever
21:17
Speaker 2: since then I stopped taking like that was the last
21:19
Speaker 2: day I took it.
21:20
Speaker 1: Wow, it really hits you.
21:22
Speaker 2: It did. I felt bamboozled.
21:27
Speaker 1: And the stuff with the over the counter stuff is
21:29
Speaker 1: you don't really quite know what dose is appropriate. I
21:33
Speaker 1: talked to someone in the past who said, yeah, I
21:35
Speaker 1: tried melatonin, but I'm just exhausted and I'm getting all
21:38
Speaker 1: these bad headaches. And she was taking like twenty milligrams,
21:42
Speaker 1: which I usually recommend four to five for adults, so
21:46
Speaker 1: it's like she was taking way too much. That's the
21:48
Speaker 1: thing with the over the counter stuff. They don't really
21:50
Speaker 1: tell you what's appropriate what's not.
21:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you ever heard of, like there's a chemical
21:54
Speaker 2: in like apple juice or apples that like makes you
21:56
Speaker 2: have weird dreams. Have we talked about this? No, I
21:59
Speaker 2: don't know why. I just came up in my head,
22:01
Speaker 2: but I swear I saw it on like Reddit or something,
22:05
Speaker 2: and so I tested it out. It might have just
22:08
Speaker 2: been a coincidence, but I've had some weird ass dreams
22:11
Speaker 2: following apple consumption.
22:13
Speaker 1: Buzz Meltona can make a dreams wild some other sleeping
22:16
Speaker 1: medicines dreams pretty wild.
22:19
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
22:21
Speaker 1: Do you ever have a lucid dreams where you know
22:23
Speaker 1: it's a dream and you.
22:24
Speaker 2: Can control it, no sounds.
22:30
Speaker 1: I get those all the time. As soon as I
22:33
Speaker 1: realize that it's a lucid dream and I can control it,
22:36
Speaker 1: I'm immediately like, I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly all
22:38
Speaker 1: over the place. So I just start flying, loving it,
22:41
Speaker 1: love it live. And then as the dream goes on,
22:44
Speaker 1: it becomes harder and harder to fly and I can't
22:46
Speaker 1: take off, and I just realized that I lose my
22:50
Speaker 1: ability over time. I've got a lot of weird, deep
22:53
Speaker 1: psychological dream And I know I've mentioned in the past too,
22:58
Speaker 1: the dreams having to go back to junior high and
23:01
Speaker 1: like take classes and also still be a doctor at
23:04
Speaker 1: the same time.
23:05
Speaker 2: I hate those.
23:06
Speaker 1: I hate those so much.
23:08
Speaker 2: Oh where are we at on this list? What are
23:11
Speaker 2: the most with? Other tips with sleep?
23:14
Speaker 1: Only use your bed for sleep and sects because if
23:18
Speaker 1: you are too active in your bed, then your brain
23:20
Speaker 1: starts to associate your bed with being active, and it's
23:22
Speaker 1: harder to wind down and go to sleep.
23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if people in college or high school that
23:27
Speaker 2: study or try to do homework in their bed, don't
23:29
Speaker 2: do that. Next one was avoid alcohol or meals before bedtime.
23:32
Speaker 2: We've talked about that a little bit. And then the
23:35
Speaker 2: last one was having a healthy body weight, or not
23:37
Speaker 2: the last, but another one is having a healthy body weight.
23:39
Speaker 2: So things of like looking into a sleep study. If
23:41
Speaker 2: other people are hearing you snore loudly or you stop
23:44
Speaker 2: breathing in your sleep, important to look into.
23:46
Speaker 1: And I know we'd mentioned doctor Kristen Casey already, but
23:50
Speaker 1: she gave us a really good resource for helping with
23:53
Speaker 1: your sleep, and it was the CBTI coach that stands
23:57
Speaker 1: for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy insomnia and it's actually something that
24:02
Speaker 1: the government has paid to make free to everyone, and
24:06
Speaker 1: it's been shown to be just as effective as taking
24:09
Speaker 1: sleep medication. So it's a pretty cool thing. So check
24:12
Speaker 1: out the CBTI coach if you want a really good
24:15
Speaker 1: app that can help you asleep.
24:16
Speaker 2: Another good thing that could be helpful could be like
24:19
Speaker 2: sleep tracking devices, so sometimes they could just give you
24:21
Speaker 2: good information. Things to pay attention to trends, things like
24:25
Speaker 2: a fitbit or an or ring. I think we mentioned
24:28
Speaker 2: those specifically because something like an Apple Watch, they don't
24:32
Speaker 2: always they just don't last that long, like battery wise,
24:35
Speaker 2: Like some of them are less than twenty four hours.
24:37
Speaker 2: When are you supposed to charge it? I know they
24:38
Speaker 2: have like the Apple Watch ultra like and I'm a
24:41
Speaker 2: huge like Apple guy, but they just don't last that
24:44
Speaker 2: long battery wise, So it's kind of hard. Things like
24:46
Speaker 2: a fitbit, those things last forever, an or ring forever,
24:50
Speaker 2: So it could be a good thing to use to
24:52
Speaker 2: kind of help, you know, track those things. I will say,
24:55
Speaker 2: I think now or rings you can buy them with
24:58
Speaker 2: FSA or HSA spending. So yeah, if you're someone that
25:02
Speaker 2: has that like funding. I know for me, I get
25:05
Speaker 2: flex spending every month as part of my benefits from work.
25:09
Speaker 2: So oftentimes when I pay cops and stuff at the doctor,
25:11
Speaker 2: I'm not actually paying it. I'm just using the benefit
25:13
Speaker 2: that I get from work. But yeah, something to think about.
25:16
Speaker 2: And then according to Sleep Foundation dot org, one third
25:20
Speaker 2: of Americans have tried a sleep tracker, and sixty eight
25:23
Speaker 2: percent of surgery respondents said that it helped them change
25:26
Speaker 2: their habits and sleep.
25:27
Speaker 1: My bad, I wrote the wrong word in the survey,
25:30
Speaker 1: not surgery respond.
25:33
Speaker 2: So it happens when I just read word from work.
25:37
Speaker 1: This is what happens when you write it out on
25:39
Speaker 1: your phone too.
25:41
Speaker 2: We should leave that in. I like how we're surgery,
25:45
Speaker 2: We're real, we do this shit in one take. I
25:48
Speaker 2: like that about us.
25:52
Speaker 1: Another big factor with exhaustion levels we want to discuss
25:55
Speaker 1: is stress, especially stress out of control, like out of
25:59
Speaker 1: your control. This is another thing from that Time magazine
26:02
Speaker 1: article we mentioned earlier that we have a lot of
26:05
Speaker 1: stress collectively as a society, with climate change, multiple wars
26:09
Speaker 1: going on in the world, inflation, the perceived threat of violence, politics,
26:15
Speaker 1: and these are largely stressors out of our control with
26:18
Speaker 1: no resolution in our power, so which is a lot
26:22
Speaker 1: psychologically and increases our stress and can mess with our
26:24
Speaker 1: sleep too.
26:25
Speaker 2: And another piece of stress that impacts a lot of
26:27
Speaker 2: people is financial stress. So it's something that I think
26:32
Speaker 2: now with how much prices of raised for a lot
26:34
Speaker 2: of things, impacts a lot of people and is on
26:36
Speaker 2: a lot of people's minds.
26:38
Speaker 1: So medications, we felt like that we should probably talk
26:41
Speaker 1: a little bit about medications. And there are a lot
26:43
Speaker 1: of sleep medicines out there, and it's always a risk
26:46
Speaker 1: versus reward. If you're only getting four hours of sleep
26:50
Speaker 1: per night and you feel like you need more, it
26:52
Speaker 1: can be pretty miserable. Getting a good sleep medicine can
26:55
Speaker 1: help you get more sleep and can also help depression
26:58
Speaker 1: and anxiety. RISI because to sleep is when your body
27:01
Speaker 1: and brain heals itself, and sleep is a really important
27:04
Speaker 1: thing for mental health in general. I try and avoid
27:06
Speaker 1: sleep medicines if I if I can, especially in prescribing them,
27:11
Speaker 1: but there are some people who just absolutely need them,
27:14
Speaker 1: especially in things like ADHD. People with ADHD really struggle
27:18
Speaker 1: with falling to sleep at night because their mind is
27:20
Speaker 1: racing so much, and some people just have flat out
27:22
Speaker 1: in Zombia where they just cannot get to sleep and
27:25
Speaker 1: they want it so bad. So a lot of sleep
27:28
Speaker 1: medicines can change your sleep cycles similar to what alcohol
27:31
Speaker 1: can do, and they can decrease the amount of rem
27:33
Speaker 1: sleep that you get. Medicines like Zolpidem, which is ambient,
27:37
Speaker 1: can cause pretty severe sleepwalking or somnambulism. Always like that word,
27:42
Speaker 1: and also strange behaviors, and I haven't had anyone because
27:45
Speaker 1: I don't really prescribe that one because it is kind
27:47
Speaker 1: of dangerous. We try and avoid it. They used to
27:49
Speaker 1: do it a little bit in residency, but not anymore.
27:51
Speaker 1: But I have heard stories from other doctors about people
27:54
Speaker 1: trying to cook while sleeping, like on ambient and I
27:58
Speaker 1: burn themselves pretty severely. So it's a big thing. Main
28:02
Speaker 1: point is it's okay to ask your doctor about sleep
28:05
Speaker 1: medicines and if you're really struggling to get sleep and
28:07
Speaker 1: can't get any relief, it may be something that can help. Plus,
28:10
Speaker 1: check out that CBTI coach and we are not funded
28:13
Speaker 1: or anything by CBTI Coach. We just think they're pretty
28:16
Speaker 1: awesome product.
28:17
Speaker 2: Looking at everyday health dot com, we have a list
28:21
Speaker 2: of famous people who have struggled with sleep or even
28:23
Speaker 2: struggle with insomnia. So the first one is Ray Allen
28:26
Speaker 2: is a former NBA Star Hall of Famer. I think
28:29
Speaker 2: he's on the Hall of Fame by now, who has
28:31
Speaker 2: said that he struggles with poor sleep and that this
28:33
Speaker 2: gave him headaches.
28:34
Speaker 1: The other ones we wanted to mention are George Clooney,
28:37
Speaker 1: the very handsome white guy. He has come out in
28:40
Speaker 1: a couple of different interviews and talked about how much
28:42
Speaker 1: he has struggled with sleep. Mariah Carey has come out
28:46
Speaker 1: and said that she's struggled with sleep, especially after performances
28:49
Speaker 1: with all the adrenaline going on, she found it really
28:52
Speaker 1: hard to wind down and get to sleep. She's also
28:55
Speaker 1: been diagnosed by polar disorder in twenty eighteen, which can
28:58
Speaker 1: also like big impacts on your sleep as well.
29:01
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what though, her struggles with sleep did
29:03
Speaker 2: not stop her from making the Emancipation of Mimi, which
29:07
Speaker 2: is a top top five album. At least, I just
29:11
Speaker 2: need to share that I've told you this. That was.
29:13
Speaker 1: They're big, Mariah huge, huge, Yeah.
29:21
Speaker 2: Range, She's she's starting to thaw out right now. It's
29:24
Speaker 2: almost Christmas time, almost.
29:29
Speaker 1: Or not.
29:32
Speaker 2: Next we have Pete Wentz from Fallout Boy. I'm familiar
29:35
Speaker 2: with them.
29:36
Speaker 1: Uh.
29:37
Speaker 2: He said it started with Xanix and klonopin to help
29:41
Speaker 2: them sleep, and also he had anxiety about flying.
29:45
Speaker 1: Uh.
29:45
Speaker 2: He even had some psychotic symptoms when sleep deprived, thinking
29:49
Speaker 2: that there were bugs in his house and that people
29:50
Speaker 2: were listening to him. And he's also been diagnosed with
29:53
Speaker 2: bipolar disorder, which if you've listened to any of our
29:55
Speaker 2: previous one previous episodes about bipolar disorder, that manic part
30:00
Speaker 2: of the bipolar disorder. You hear people going a week
30:03
Speaker 2: with two hours of sleep in the whole week, so
30:06
Speaker 2: it's definitely can impact your sleep.
30:08
Speaker 1: Sleep deprivation can lead to a lot of psychotic symptoms
30:13
Speaker 1: like hearing voices, delusions, paranoia. And I noticed that in
30:17
Speaker 1: the people that I would talk to in residency in
30:19
Speaker 1: the emergency room who had done a lot of myth,
30:22
Speaker 1: like the metho itself didn't really seem to cause a
30:25
Speaker 1: lot of psychosis. It was when they had gone like
30:28
Speaker 1: four or five days in a row without sleeping that's
30:31
Speaker 1: when the psychotic symptoms really started to settle in. So
30:35
Speaker 1: that sleep is a huge factor in that too. Yeah,
30:38
Speaker 1: and the last celebrity we want to talk about is Rihanna,
30:42
Speaker 1: and she blames her racing mind for not being able
30:45
Speaker 1: to sleep, and she has come out in interviews in
30:47
Speaker 1: the past and said that she's one of those people
30:48
Speaker 1: that only gets three to four hours of sleep per
30:50
Speaker 1: night and does pretty well.
30:51
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, good for her, but yeah.
30:54
Speaker 1: I'm a nine hours kind of guy myself, So great
30:58
Speaker 1: if I could stay up all night hanging out stuff,
31:00
Speaker 1: why not.
31:02
Speaker 2: Got a couple discussion questions, One of them, I know
31:04
Speaker 2: the answer to it. Do you use melatonin? My answer
31:07
Speaker 2: is fuck no. After that one time. Never, I'm telling you, dude,
31:11
Speaker 2: that one time I felt so betrayed by the melitone
31:15
Speaker 2: and I'm like, never again. I'm never And that was
31:17
Speaker 2: in I can tell you when around when so. I
31:20
Speaker 2: took that class my junior year of college, So that
31:23
Speaker 2: was fall of twenty thirteen. It was football season, and
31:28
Speaker 2: I remember because that was the semester where I took
31:31
Speaker 2: I had no Monday with Friday classes. I only had
31:34
Speaker 2: Tuesday Thursday classes. But I was in class from seven
31:37
Speaker 2: thirty until like four o'clock in the afternoon those days.
31:41
Speaker 2: And I had a lab for the intro neuroscience class
31:43
Speaker 2: on Wednesdays and that was the only things I had.
31:46
Speaker 2: But yeah, fall of twenty thirteen.
31:49
Speaker 1: Never again, over ten years ago and you're still selling.
31:53
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Do you use it at all?
31:56
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah. I like to use meltone and I
31:58
Speaker 1: use it almost every night. I take about two and
32:02
Speaker 1: a half milligrams. Me and my wife have our little
32:05
Speaker 1: ritual where I bite it in half and give her
32:08
Speaker 1: the other half. It's pretty cool, that's cute, and then
32:12
Speaker 1: we pass out. Hell yeah, how do you feel like
32:16
Speaker 1: our American lifestyle. Our culture impacts our sleep.
32:20
Speaker 2: I mean I think of just like being in college
32:23
Speaker 2: right and like staying up super late, studying, partying for
32:28
Speaker 2: hours on end, going to sleep late, drinking a lot.
32:33
Speaker 2: There's a girl on TikTok. She's a dental student and
32:36
Speaker 2: she consistently does all nighters where she'll be like studying
32:41
Speaker 2: and she'll like film it and like has a lot
32:43
Speaker 2: of following off based off of it, and drinks a
32:46
Speaker 2: lot of caffeine and energy drinks. So I'm just like, oh,
32:49
Speaker 2: that is not ideal. I don't know what to do.
32:51
Speaker 2: This feels awful, but I mean it makes me think.
32:54
Speaker 2: I think I've done like one all nighter in all
32:58
Speaker 2: of my college like grad school life, and it was awful.
33:02
Speaker 2: So I think, I don't know. I feel like Americans
33:05
Speaker 2: like we just moved so quickly all the time, fast paced,
33:09
Speaker 2: maybe just the way the school system is too and
33:11
Speaker 2: work that we have less time to do other things
33:14
Speaker 2: that we want to do, so we try to squeeze
33:15
Speaker 2: it in and we try to make up for lost time.
33:17
Speaker 2: And I don't think it. I don't think sleep is
33:20
Speaker 2: prioritized as much as it should.
33:21
Speaker 1: Be, especially it feels like in America, sleep is kind
33:24
Speaker 1: of looked down upon, like you can't be productive when
33:27
Speaker 1: you're sleeping. Yeah.
33:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always the people was Huberman. I don't know
33:32
Speaker 2: if he talks about it, but I just kind of
33:34
Speaker 2: lump them into that of like the people that talk
33:36
Speaker 2: about like I only sleep this much. I sleep like
33:39
Speaker 2: five hours and then this is what I do to
33:41
Speaker 2: like biohack and get as much and I'm just like,
33:43
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, everyone's trying to squeeze as many
33:46
Speaker 2: minutes out of the day as they can.
33:47
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's okay to give your brain a rest
33:51
Speaker 1: a brain, because that's important. We need that. Sleep is
33:56
Speaker 1: the main take home point for the day. Get more sleep.
34:01
Speaker 1: That's mine, what's yours.
34:04
Speaker 2: Don't use melatonin if your teacher, if your neuroscience professor
34:08
Speaker 2: tells you do, because it just might not work for you,
34:11
Speaker 2: and then you get upset and you never use melatonin again.
34:14
Speaker 2: That might be too specific.
34:17
Speaker 1: Then you talk about it over ten years later.
34:19
Speaker 2: On a podcast. I'll just say, yes, prioritize sleep as
34:24
Speaker 2: much as possible.
34:26
Speaker 1: So we hope that this episode gave you some good tips,
34:29
Speaker 1: some things that you could use. Some good understanding of
34:32
Speaker 1: sleep because it's important. It's important for your physical and
34:35
Speaker 1: mental health, and that is what we are all about,
34:37
Speaker 1: is helping you with those.
34:39
Speaker 2: Oh thank you all for listening. We've reached the into
34:43
Speaker 2: the show. So here's this spiel. On Apple podcast, Spotify,
34:46
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcast you can find us. Feel
34:49
Speaker 2: free to leave us a five star review, share, follow, subscribe,
34:52
Speaker 2: whatever it is that your app lets you do. You
34:54
Speaker 2: can leave us a comment on both Spotify and Apple
34:56
Speaker 2: Podcasts if you would like to do so. Follow us
34:58
Speaker 2: on social media at Millennial MHC on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter,
35:02
Speaker 2: and YouTube, and you can check out our website millenniumimahc
35:06
Speaker 2: dot com. Go get some sleep and take care of
35:09
Speaker 2: your mentals.