Latest / Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith / Who Gets to Need Mental Health Help with Sara Stanizai
Transcript
- Kristin Carver Smith: Hello and welcome to another episode of Justin Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith. I'm your host, Kristin Carver Smith or KCS ⁓ as most folks call me these days. ⁓ I am so excited to have Stanisai here with us today. I mean, at this face. Like look at this face, look at this face. ⁓ So Sarah is a licensed. marriage and family therapist. told y'all we were gonna have the experts on and Sarah is the expert. Sarah, absolutely, like a million degrees. So Sarah is the founder of Prospect Therapy, a queer and trans affirming practice that focuses specifically on serving first generation American and immigrant communities, which feels extra, extra important right now, Sarah, like. So many things that we could say about that, but let me continue on. As a queer and Afghan American herself, her clinical and professional work focuses on serving her communities through therapy, through coaching, group experiences, and Sarah, you do a lot of work with couples, right? Well, we're so glad that you do that work. It's such important work. And I know that you also have such a special place in your heart for eldest daughters, ⁓ a trait that you and I both share. And I know that we both have a special place in our heart for the people who love us, who love the eldest daughters. So we know that we are not the easiest. We are not the easiest. You're gonna have me spit my water out. If, those are the rules, if. Yes. It's okay, it's a spectrum. The eldest daughter journey is a spectrum. So Sarah, how did you even get involved, like start working in this field? did you, have you known forever and ever, like, I wanna be a therapist, I wanna do this work. What's that look like for you? Mmm. Mmm! current field. Hmm. Mmm. Hmm. Wait, I didn't know this about you. What? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Say more about that. I'm so curious of what felt good about the social services piece. I feel like that counts for quite a bit, but that's just me. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. I was gonna say it's big of you to admit that, because I know how hard that is as a sibling to like, to give up the funny crown is, it's tough. She's got it. She's gonna own that lane. I've got all my things over here. I love that. Hmm. I was gonna say, you sure it wasn't the attractive pay? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, Whether their title is therapist or not, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, which I feel like that's such a different, like when you have the agency to choose, right, versus something being thrust upon you that feels very different. So I love that that was your experience. So tell me about, like, what was the impetus for prospect therapy? Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I'm good. That's the only thing I needed to say today. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you bringing that context and that background is so important. I think it's so interesting. Like I wanna jump back to you talking about your marketing experience, right? I think so much about in marketing and communication, say, tell us that we have to niche down. We have to talk to our audience. We have to talk to our people. We have to find our people. We have to know our audience. We have to understand their pain points and all of that, right? And it's, it's... you know, just fascinating to me that it was like you honed in on your people, like that. And, and, and again, it, even when people told you like, that's not going to be a thing. It's not a thing. It's not, what, are you doing? Right? It's like, that's actually, you are incredibly successful today. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah! Yeah. Yeah. Mm, mm, it's so good. And on that note, I think what's so interesting is there are some professions. I feel like there's actually quite a few of them where it feels like, you know, we don't expect therapists to have trauma or need like care and mental health support of their own perhaps. Like maybe yes, we do, but probably a lot of our you know, opinions or perspectives are like, Sarah's good. Like Sarah's fine. Sarah, Sarah's got it. Like she's not dealt with burnout. Like she's never had a mental health emergency or, and I think people's perception of my career as well, right, as a publicist, like, you know, my job is oftentimes like be the person wearing black on the red carpet, amplify other voices. I can't have problems. Right? My people, the people that I work with can have problems, but I can't have the problems and I can't be the one needing help. And, you know, I obviously have shared on this podcast of my own experience of having a mental health emergency and what it's looked like, you know, to be honest about that, to navigate that, to like actually bring some of that into my work. And I'm so curious. I'm imagining the answer is probably yes. But I'm so curious of like what your experience has been with your own mental health journey as you've helped support others with theirs. Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, long and painful. Mmm. Sara Stanizai: writing a book. I don't know what I was thinking, writing a book. And then I was planning international retreats and I was running groups and I was teaching classes and I was running two businesses. I was supervising people. And you know, I tell that story and I'm like, well, coincidentally, this was happening at the same time. And I'm like, was it a coincidence or was I really avoiding something and just throwing myself into my work? Kristin Carver Smith: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I'm so glad that you shared that because one, I think it's for folks listening right now, I think that's incredibly relatable of you know, like I know that, you know, in your experience and also in mine, like mine was filled with, I would call them distractions as well, right? Like I just thought that I could just like produce and try my way through it and push my way through it and. Like and stuff down and numb and not look at it and not deal with it. And it's like the result of that was like, was. I love this like visual of it's almost like you had like a million tabs open. Right. And I'm sure that a lot of those things, like I'm making a big assumption here, but I'm sure like a lot of them are probably like started and half baked, but not finished. Right. And so I think that is so relatable for so many of our listeners. I don't think that we always know. that when we see that to like recognize that as something is happening here, like this is a ⁓ caution light, this is a red light maybe even blinking our bodies, like this is something that is, they're trying to tell us, right? And so it's, think a lot of times like we'll default to like, I'm just. I can't believe that I didn't finish that thing again. And we're so hard on ourselves, right? And so it's like, we end up like directing all of that, all of that like pain almost back at ourselves. And I'm so curious too of what are some of the other things that you started like recognizing when you, I call it like, it's that really slippery slope, right? And it's like, what are some of the things that you were like, yep, that was a tell. Yup, that was. That was now looking back like this, that was a pretty good clue. Cause I think it'll help folks who are listening go, wait, hold on. Like, let me pause. any of like, can I see myself in any of this? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah? Yeah And also to be clear, we're not saying that if you go to the gym that you're having a mental health emergency. I think again, it's so helpful of Sarah is sharing about what behaviors, what activities, right? Were different for you and like what would be out of the norm. Hmm, during that time or, okay. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ huh. Yeah. That's such a, and again, I know that there are so many people who are listening who are like, maybe I've noticed this about my family member or I've noticed this about a friend or someone has actually noticed something about me and the way that it was phrased or asked or the way that I was approached, like caused me to be defensive. And so I love that even as you're talking about this, that you're sort of sharing of like, I don't know, there's almost a little bit of like, noticing the thing and then posing the question next. So it's almost like, hey, I noticed you haven't been at dinner lately. How's everything going? Right? Like I just, it's so, that feels so different than you haven't been at dinner lately. What's going on with you? What's happening? Right? She never shows up to anything. Right, right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I just think it's so helpful. And I know that people that were close to me, you know, that we've had conversations since my hospitalization around like, ⁓ Kristen, like I saw this and I just, I didn't say anything. Like, and I'm like kicking myself that I didn't say something or I wish that I would have like, I noticed this and that kind of worried me. And, you know, and I think there's so much of that. journey for myself that I go like, I own this and I own my side of the street. And also, I totally want people who are close to me, my family, my friends, even there were some clients that I was close to to be able to come to me and go, hey, I noticed this, checking in, right? I think a lot of times we feel like, we shouldn't say something or we're scared of saying something by how it might be received. And so I so appreciate you bringing this up. And it brings me to another question, which is, I think so much about, for again, some of us who are in these professions where we feel like, you know, I don't know. I don't want to say that like we're, having to like, we have to have some sort of separate persona, but it does feel like there's a lot of like intentionality and a lot of strategies, so to speak, that goes into like, well, what can be shared? What can't be shared, right? Whether it's by like HIPAA or it's a, Hey, the type of like, we have a very confidential relationship and whatnot. so I think sometimes that profession can be isolating of, who can I talk to about the real stuff? So I'm like, so curious of what your community and what your sort of like circle of trust and I call it like the sounding board, like who are those people for you? Do you have that? What does that look like? How has that sort of like evolved over the years? And, know, and like part, part two, part B to that is how has that, have you noticed? that being helpful, harmful, like what does that look like for you? Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. We love a helicopter. But see, this is part of being human. Like the helicopters will helicopter. Like let's just. you This is the humanity that we're wanting a little bit more of in the world right now, right? on having your own therapist, also having your own, like you have your own friend community that you don't talk about work with, you said. Mmm. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Man, a lot of us could learn, could stand to learn from that. They're like, I'm going so I can learn how to do exactly what you just said. we're here for it. That makes me wonder. So obviously you're a business owner, you're an entrepreneur. And I'm really curious because I know that like in the entrepreneur space that we hear a lot about it, like business is going to reveal some stuff. Like if you have things that you have not dealt with, looked at, it's going to reveal some things. And so, you know, as you've talked about, going to I love also I like love this image of therapist school. Like it's just it's like, it's so fun to think of it sounds cute. It sounds cute. I know it's not like therapist school sounds really nice. So it's not cute and I love that like you learned how to not bring your own stuff to the space. I'm curious like how is that translated across business for you? Like what does that look like for you as a business owner and entrepreneur? Mm-hmm. Ugh. Mm-hmm. How you, yeah, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm. Mmm. Hmm. Mmm. Right, of course, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, I feel that. ⁓ huh, ⁓ huh, yeah. And I, gosh, ugh. ⁓ There's so much there. We're going to have a whole separate conversation about that because I'm like, yes, we have to have like a whole episode on all the things that being a business owner has taught you about yourself that you weren't expecting. Right. It's, it's so hard. It's so hard. ⁓ I'm really curious. I'm imagining that you've dealt with business burnout. And I think, like, I think about the business burnout that I've experienced and I'm not a therapist. And I'm curious of like, did you ever have moments where you were like experiencing business burnout and the therapist in you is like, I think we should do this. I think you might need this. But the business owner, like the human inside you is like, we're good, like we're good, we're okay, we don't need those things. what, cause it's, to me I'm like, there's like this duality, right? And so I just think it's so, I'm just, I'm curious, like what that experience has been like for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, look, I recently came across another model from a client who is actually employee owned. And I didn't know much about employee ownership. And now that I have swam in the employee ownership waters, I'm like, what? Like, it's absolutely fascinating. So we'll have a whole separate conversation about these things. But I think... It's so fascinating. I feel like as, as business owners who care about like the podcast is called Justin Joyful for a reason, right? It's like, to me, that is like the umbrella. It's like the banner in which I try to move through not just my life, but also through business. Like all of my decisions in business have been made around the idea of, it Justin Joyful? Now I can't say obviously that I do that well or perfectly every time. I think that if maybe I had done that well, I probably wouldn't have end up burned out and having a mental health emergency. But that's neither here nor there. And I'm like, I'm grateful for that experience. But I think it's, I think these, there's models that you and I have not been presented. And I think there's a lot of strategy that goes into what's obviously being amplified and what's being shared with us in terms of ⁓ you know, like exit strategies that are actually just and joyful exit strategies that do actually look like that embodies some of the values and things that I know that you and I both share. So again, whole separate conversation about this. I feel like you and I will also have to talk offline about these things and too bad listeners, you can't come along for that journey right now, but we will make it public at some point. So Sarah, I am so as we are getting ready to wrap up. I've got a couple of more questions for you. One of the things that I know you do a lot of work around compassion fatigue. And I feel like we've heard that a lot more during early days of COVID of talking about compassion fatigue, specifically frontline health care workers. And I feel like we hear a little bit less of that. And yet, it's still prevalent. It never went away. It never stopped being. It never stopped being something that people needed support with. And I know that that's something too, that it also feels like people who are again, in healthcare roles, behavioral healthcare therapists, right? That it's just, it's so, so important to have that type of support. I'm curious like how compassion fatigue might play out for everyday individuals too. Cause I'm sure again, you see this all throughout your work. Please share your strong feelings. We wanna hear those strong feelings. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still bypassing. Yeah, it's still like, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I so appreciate you saying that too, because again, I think like, we there's so many different terms, phrases, all of that sort of stuff that are being co opted in different spaces and whatnot. And I just, I love this clarity. I love this, like, this is how we utilize this, right? And we're talking about something completely different. Because again, I do think people, it is very real to feel fatigue. while you are scrolling and seeing like, someone's working out and here's their leg, here's what their perfectly smooth forehead looks like from doing the, you know, this specific thing. And then next image is war. And then next image is, you know, someone with an outfit of the day. And the next image is rights being rolled back, right? So it's like, yes, that is very real. And it's not compassion fatigue. So tell me a little bit about the work that you've been doing around compassion fatigue with individuals who care for a number of different communities. you Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. ⁓ Hmm... Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then in the background, they're hearing things like Joy is Resistance. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm. I just love that so much. And I think I know that we have healthcare providers and caregivers that listen to this podcast. And so I just, I think it's always so important to remind listeners that the caregivers need care too. And just like the therapist need therapy too, right? ⁓ And I don't want to say the publicist need publicity too, but that's, that's not it. It's like we, we need, we need the we need the care as well we need the help as well and so I'm just ⁓ I'm so grateful for the work that you do Sarah you're just such a wonderful gem of a human. ⁓ See that and also like we need more modeling of that. Like it's okay to sit in that. Why do there's so many of us that would be like, ⁓ like, no, thank you so much. ⁓ right. ⁓ Well, the world is a better place because you are. So as we wrap up, I've got a couple of just like quick rapid fire questions that we always ask our guests. what, I knew we just mentioned books. I don't know, maybe you're reading, maybe you're not reading right now, but like what TV shows or books are you obsessed with right now? or podcasts. Okay, we're here for it. I'll have to add it to my watch list. Yeah, hold it up. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Okay, we'll have to add that one to our reading list too. ⁓ What's your go-to tool resource like move when you're feeling overstimulated? Darkness and cat cuddles. Darkness, quiet, cat cuddles. I love it. Who is a justice champion or advocate that you're always hitting repost on? Okay. Shout out, Nikki Black. We hope after this episode she does. Mmm. Mmm. I love that you're like sort of response because it's like that's so relatable. We've definitely had those folks that we've like come across. I've definitely come across those posts too. Or I'm like, ⁓ like. Yes, yes. ⁓ Last question, what's something that's bringing you joy right now? Yeah, always. We have always said that, that we should, we're like, we should have hit record on that conversation. Basically, I feel like I just launched the podcast because I just needed to be able to hit record in all of the juicy conversations that we have, that I get to have with so many folks. And what a treat, what a treat, what a treat this is. I can neither confirm nor deny. ⁓ It's this face. We just gotta let the face say it all, so. Mm-hmm. That's it. Exactly. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. And we're just so thankful for you and the work that you're doing. You can learn more about Sarah and her work at prospecttherapy.com or on Instagram at prospecttherapy. Thanks, Sarah.