Latest / Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden / Elevate Podcast Ep 22 - Building The Basement - Jacob Leffler, Founder & President of The Basement

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Elevate Podcast Ep 22 - Building The Basement - Jacob Leffler, Founder & President of The Basement · Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden

0:09
[music]
0:10
>> Welcome to the Elevate Odd Cast, powered
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by Braden.
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This is your front row seat to the
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stories of local leaders, both
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non-profit and for-profit, who are
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shaping our community.
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Every episode brings you leadership
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insights,
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lessons from challenges, and practical
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strategies you can [music] use today.
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And yes, we'll keep it real and have
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some fun along the way. If you're ready
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for updates and behind-the-scenes
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content. Now, let's dive in.
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Hey everybody, Jason Hom here with
0:43
another episode of the Elevate Powered
0:45
by Braden podcast. And this is our
0:48
weekly show and an opportunity to talk
0:50
to local business leaders, both
0:51
for-profit and non-profit. And today
0:53
I've got a new friend who has some
0:55
pretty cool stories.
0:57
Uh radio probably would do a better job
0:59
doing this than maybe I would. And uh
1:01
the looking forward to talking to you
1:02
with Jacob. Welcome to the show. Thank
1:04
you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate
1:05
it. And Jacob, where are you where are
1:06
you today? Uh at The Basement. We're a
1:08
full-service ad agency here centered in
1:11
Central Indiana. Got you. All right. So,
1:13
I know there's a lot of cool stuff that
1:14
you guys do and we'll get to that part
1:15
of your story. Let's go back to your
1:17
genesis. Where you from originally? Uh
1:19
originally I grew up on the east side of
1:21
Indianapolis. Moved there when I was 2
1:22
years old. Uh parents moved the family
1:24
to uh Irvington, if you're familiar with
1:26
that area of town. Okay. Little historic
1:29
district on the east side and uh grew up
1:31
there, went to Our Lady of Lourdes grade
1:33
school on East Washington Street. Um
1:36
went to Scecina High School, uh
1:39
right up the road, and uh from there
1:41
ended up at Ball State. So, let's go
1:43
back to high school. Yeah. So, you're
1:45
you're going to high school
1:47
and thinking about what you're going to
1:49
do next, right? So, this is maybe one of
1:50
the first biggest choices you're going
1:52
to make.
1:52
>> Yeah. And you make the decision you're
1:54
going to go to school. Why why choose
1:56
Ball State? What were you looking at? Uh
1:58
that's a great question. The answer may
2:00
not be what you think. I didn't want to
2:01
go to school at all. I'm done with high
2:03
school. I wanted to be done. And had no
2:06
interest in tension
2:09
or
2:10
frankly motivation to continue with
2:11
school. Okay.
2:13
So it was made apparent to me by my
2:16
mother that that was not a choice.
2:18
>> [laughter]
2:19
>> So so so And the choice was not mine to
2:22
make. So mom says no way no way.
2:24
>> Yeah. But back. So if you weren't going
2:27
to go to school, what what do you want
2:29
to do? What do you want to do right out
2:29
of Uh you know, like a lot of
2:31
18-year-olds I still I knew everything
2:33
and I really didn't. Seriously? Yeah,
2:35
seriously? That's true? Right. You know,
2:37
you think you think you know it all and
2:39
you really don't. So
2:40
uh I thought I'll just keep working.
2:42
Uh I spent the last
2:44
couple of years in the summers and
2:46
Christmas breaks working construction as
2:47
a labor. Okay. All over the city and
2:51
sometimes outside the city.
2:53
And I liked it. Physical work, man. A
2:56
lot of times I was outside the summer
2:58
and
2:59
for a again young 18-year-old kid, man,
3:01
that's a great job. Sure right
3:02
opportunity. So I learned to work and
3:05
even in a job like that where you're a
3:07
kid and most of your co-workers are
3:09
adults.
3:10
Um I will say this, I would recognize
3:13
spot opportunities, right?
3:15
But there's there's interesting things
3:18
um that I would pick up on on the job
3:20
sites.
3:21
So it was a really great learning
3:23
opportunity
3:24
uh to be in that environment at such a
3:26
young age. I think I started when I was
3:27
16. Okay. Uh I had jobs prior to that,
3:30
but that was like my first probably like
3:32
legit
3:34
summer job that that I went back to like
3:36
repeatedly um
3:38
off and on over the next couple years
3:40
and worked that job all through college,
3:41
too, in the summers and in the winter
3:42
breaks. Yeah. So so you like
3:44
construction, like being outdoors, like
3:46
all that kind of stuff.
3:47
But mom says no way Yep.
3:50
>> that you're not going to school. So you
3:51
decide you're going to go to Ball State
3:54
and I'm assuming it's close to it's kind
3:55
of close to home. But, what are you
3:57
going to study when you're there? Yeah,
3:58
I don't know. Uh again, I I applied to
4:01
three schools, Purdue, Ball State, and
4:03
the University of Dayton.
4:05
Why'd you apply to those schools?
4:08
They seemed like they'd be okay, right?
4:10
I got accepted to all three, never
4:12
visited any of them.
4:14
Uh you know, today by today's standards,
4:16
it's like every kid's, you know, coached
4:18
into I don't know, every kid is a lot of
4:20
kids are coached into visiting schools
4:22
when they're like 16 or whatever. Yeah,
4:24
I never visited any.
4:25
My brother, my older brother, uh all my
4:28
two oldest siblings went to Butler. My
4:30
next brother in age to me was at Ball
4:34
State. Okay. He was there studying uh
4:36
criminal justice and he was a football
4:37
player there.
4:39
And he's like, "Man, you ought to come
4:40
up and just hang out with us, you know?"
4:43
That sounded like a barrel of monkeys.
4:45
That was a lot of fun. So, interesting
4:47
though. I mean, as an 18-year-old kid,
4:48
you're going up to school, 18, 19,
4:49
whatever it is.
4:51
You love music, and the thought of at
4:53
that point being a DJ, right? Is is kind
4:55
of what you're thinking you're going to
4:56
do.
4:57
>> Yeah. Which is completely opposite of
4:58
getting outside and working in
5:00
construction, right? So, you can see
5:02
over the last three, four, or five years
5:04
of your life, you make a huge change.
5:06
>> All right. All right. You can see this
5:08
this shallow nature of my thought
5:10
process at that point in my life.
5:12
I love it. That's awesome. So, all
5:14
right. So, you finish up your your years
5:17
at Ball State and where do you go next?
5:19
You become a DJ? No, I didn't become a
5:21
DJ right away, although I wish I would
5:23
have because I would probably learn a
5:25
few few more things that quickly at
5:27
school, but I applied for a lot of jobs
5:29
in radio business. Um
5:31
I volunteered When I was at Ball State,
5:33
I volunteered at the student station. I
5:35
did some shifts there. I but I started
5:37
doing more work in the promotions
5:38
department of the the student-run radio
5:40
station. I I really enjoyed that work as
5:42
well. Cuz again, you get to go out, you
5:44
get to meet with the community. Mhm.
5:47
At least at that point in time, we would
5:48
we were doing actual promotions like
5:50
bars and things and I thought that was
5:52
pretty pretty interesting and fun and
5:54
and even that was, you know, marketing
5:56
at some level. So, and I was finding I
5:59
was pretty good at it. I was having a
6:01
little more success, I think, than
6:02
they'd seen Okay. at that station a
6:04
little bit and
6:06
that again
6:07
and a little is literally just a little.
6:09
But,
6:10
uh it was a good time and I liked it.
6:12
So, I graduated um was trying to get a
6:14
job in radio. It's a tough industry to
6:16
get into. Um
6:18
I ended up taking the first job I could
6:20
get because or there was offered to me
6:22
because I I just needed to make money,
6:24
right? College kid.
6:27
Really didn't have anything so I I took
6:29
the first gig which was which was with a
6:31
video production company in town.
6:34
Uh Milestone Film and Post. Gentleman's
6:36
name is Tom Huffman.
6:38
He's a jewel. Uh wonderful human being.
6:40
Um
6:41
found me somehow in the Ball State
6:43
system, like my resume. They called me.
6:46
Said, "Hey, you know, would like to have
6:48
you come in and interview." Uh
6:49
I was like, [clears throat] "Okay,
6:50
great. I would get an interview. Yeah,
6:52
that'd be great. So, I went and
6:53
interviewed. Didn't really study video
6:55
production much, but I think what he saw
6:58
was work ethic.
7:00
He really didn't care if I could sit
7:01
edit video from day one. He wanted me to
7:04
be able to uh
7:07
He wanted somebody that could come in
7:08
and basically do anything he needed to
7:09
do. Was willing to do anything he needed
7:11
me to do. Small business as a small
7:13
business owner, entrepreneur.
7:15
Uh and that was a good lesson, too.
7:18
Yeah. This guy owns the business. He
7:20
runs it. He's done it forever. He's done
7:22
it for big big big production shops, big
7:24
production houses. His quality of work
7:26
is high.
7:28
I can learn here. Mhm. And it's
7:31
it's uh
7:33
I'm going to get to learn things that I
7:34
don't really know how to do. He's
7:35
willing to take a shot on me, so I'm
7:36
going to go in and take the job and
7:39
do what I need to do, you know? Good.
7:41
Let's do it. You know, that it's
7:43
interesting. I interviewed you offered
7:44
me the job I took.
7:46
See, when you think about that though,
7:46
right? There's a lot of There's a lot in
7:48
just that particular part of your story.
7:50
One of the things that I think about of
7:52
it is um you could learn.
7:55
That's something you don't hear that
7:56
much yet today. A lot of folks think
7:57
they have to be the expert. Yeah. It's a
8:00
great opportunity to learn from somebody
8:01
that's been there before. The other is
8:03
because you probably had been a
8:05
a utility man. If you'd worked outside
8:07
doing all these different things, but
8:09
you showed up, you're on time, had good
8:11
work ethic. At the end of the day, he
8:13
believed he was going to get a full
8:14
day's work out of you. Right. And he
8:16
could teach you some things. That's
8:18
awesome.
8:19
All right, so you take that role. What
8:20
kind of words it go from there? Um
8:23
do about 2 years there, finally get an
8:25
opportunity to get into a radio station.
8:27
So
8:28
I was able to get
8:30
a part-time job at WNDE 1260 Sports
8:33
Radio
8:34
in Indy. You know,
8:35
they're in a building on Fall Creek
8:37
which houses G95, X103, and WNDE 1260.
8:42
So all three stations were in there. I
8:44
thought, well, I'm not really into
8:45
sports radio, but again it's in the
8:47
building with the rock stations.
8:49
I'm going to learn. A lot of people in
8:51
there that have been there a long time.
8:54
Let's do it. So uh
8:57
I resigned from from Milestone. I
9:00
took the job. Took a tremendous pay cut.
9:04
Um
9:05
no offense, Tom, not because he was
9:06
paying me in gold, but because the radio
9:08
paid poorly.
9:10
>> [laughter]
9:12
>> So I took that job because I really
9:13
wanted to learn and get my foot in the
9:15
door. Sure. So I was working part-time
9:17
at various places. Um
9:20
uh in in the mornings and then I would
9:22
eat, you know, go home, eat lunch real
9:24
quick, and then run to the radio station
9:26
to start my pre-production work for the
9:28
talk show in the afternoon.
9:30
Do the show in the afternoon, and then
9:33
finish off when the show is over I'd
9:34
still stick around for I think another
9:36
hour or so and do board work and then
9:38
head home. Okay. So, I was working like
9:41
two or three jobs including the radio
9:43
job and other one or two jobs at the
9:45
time just to try and make some more
9:46
money. Um
9:49
and again that was a great experience.
9:50
What I learned is at that time in radio,
9:52
I was I was only there for about a year.
9:54
Mhm. In the one year I was there
9:56
they that family of stations had been
9:58
bought and sold three times. Mhm. In 12
10:02
less than 12 months. And
10:04
radio had been deregulated, right to
10:07
right around the time I was getting out
10:08
of college. And I knew that cuz I was
10:09
following the industry cuz I knew I
10:11
wanted to get into it. So, I was
10:12
researching industry. I knew a lot about
10:13
it. But I knew it was deregulating and
10:16
what they said was going to happen
10:17
started happening which was larger
10:18
companies were buying all these stations
10:20
up and not only buying them up but then
10:23
other conglomerates were buying
10:24
conglomerates. This guy buying that guy.
10:27
It was just this constant consolidation
10:30
within the industry. So,
10:32
that was one
10:34
one kind of thing I kept an eye on and
10:38
the other one was um and or that
10:40
business people don't like to retire.
10:42
Mhm. You've got a place behind a
10:44
microphone, you're going to be there
10:45
until they pry it out of your cold
10:47
hands. [laughter]
10:48
I mean, there are guys still on the
10:50
radio 95 today that were on it when I
10:52
was there. No kidding. In '99. Oh, wow.
10:56
And they were there.
10:57
Yeah, right.
10:58
>> In '99 for years. Yeah, right.
11:00
>> Retired. They're still on. No kidding.
11:03
Good for them. Yeah, sure. But
11:06
for young folks, man, young talent that
11:08
wants to come in, that's tough. So, in
11:11
in the industry, you got to be willing
11:12
to move around a lot. Mhm. You got to
11:15
really be willing to go to smaller
11:16
markets and just do different things. I
11:18
wasn't opposed to that, but I met a
11:20
young young uh
11:22
lovely young lady that is now my wife to
11:24
this day Mhm. and we got engaged while I
11:28
was working at three radio stations, so.
11:31
That radio station money wasn't going to
11:33
cut Mhm. uh
11:35
>> [sighs and gasps]
11:36
>> household. So, not only that, but we
11:38
talked about it and we agreed we didn't
11:40
want to move around. Yeah, you wanted to
11:42
be 5' 8" this was tall and Yeah, for at
11:45
least for the time being, absolutely.
11:46
And so, I said, "Okay, it's probably
11:48
time I started looking at another other
11:50
things." So,
11:52
um and frankly, it wasn't as fun as I
11:54
thought it was going to be.
11:55
>> [gasps]
11:55
>> Yeah, right. Sure.
11:56
>> It was It was cool. I enjoyed it, but it
11:58
just wasn't you know,
12:01
there's an old saying, um
12:05
and I'm going to butcher it, but
12:07
it's no fun when you meet your hero and
12:09
he turns out to be an Right.
12:10
Yeah, yeah. I heard Yeah, I said,
12:11
"Right, Zoe." Kind of take that and
12:14
you're like, "Oh, man, this is going to
12:15
be a blast." It's like, Yeah, you know,
12:17
it's work. Right. It's work. In your In
12:19
your mind, the build-up is I'm behind
12:22
this behind the mic and everybody's
12:24
going to love me and this is fun, but
12:25
there's hours and hours and hours of
12:27
work you're going for it. Just wasn't
12:29
what you're looking for. that and just I
12:31
thought I'd have creative freedom. Not
12:33
really. Not really. You You're kind of,
12:35
you know, they're
12:37
They have rules, right? You abide by the
12:39
rules. You think you have creative
12:40
freedom within the rules. You still
12:41
don't. Like, there's producers. There's
12:43
There's people that have to, you know,
12:44
run the station and keep it intact and
12:46
sure, they don't need some 20-something
12:48
coming in there doing wild stuff for
12:50
course cuz it's not what they're looking
12:52
for. So,
12:53
it's like, "Okay, now I have a tape is
12:55
starting to just fade away."
12:56
>> Yeah.
12:57
Figuring out
12:59
I got to start getting a little more
13:00
serious here. So,
13:01
uh I left the station and took uh I
13:04
believe at that point in time, yeah, I
13:05
took my first job in advertising. Okay,
13:07
so that's your first toe in the water in
13:09
advertising. All right. Where How does
13:11
the story progress until you decide
13:13
you're going to throw your hat in the
13:14
ring to start your own business?
13:16
How do I go from first job in
13:18
advertising to owning my own business?
13:19
How did that come about that, right? I
13:20
mean, cuz you This is what's interesting
13:22
about your story is, you know, you start
13:24
out, you You want to go to college,
13:26
just wanted to work, wanted to work in
13:28
construction. But you know, they didn't
13:29
want to be behind the mic and be on air.
13:31
And you get in advertising, and then you
13:33
take you take the step and go, "Man, I'm
13:35
going to start my own company." Yeah.
13:37
Right. I mean, so you think about this,
13:38
that journey is
13:40
a pretty amazing journey, by the way,
13:41
cuz it How many years ago was it you
13:43
started in the basement?
13:45
Uh in July, it'll be our July will be
13:47
our 20th year, starting our 20th year.
13:49
Crazy. By the way, that's awesome.
13:50
Congrats. Thanks. So, first job in
13:52
advertising, what what are What are you
13:55
doing? Like, what's the role look like?
13:56
And then Yeah. Uh coordinate account
13:58
coordinator, entry-level. Um and it was
14:01
a a regional office of a national
14:03
agency.
14:05
Uh
14:06
mostly media. Mostly media work. So,
14:08
buying a lot of media, uh researching
14:10
and buying on behalf of clients. Uh
14:14
>> [snorts]
14:14
>> And it was it was it was a what I would
14:16
call a niche, completely niche uh
14:19
segment of advertising, recruitment
14:21
advertising of all things.
14:23
So,
14:25
I had clients all over the board because
14:27
it's a high-volume that type of
14:29
business at that point in time, you
14:31
know, this was like the internet was
14:33
around, but it wasn't
14:35
I mean, it wasn't being leveraged like
14:37
it is now. Sure. I mean, the majority of
14:40
what I was buying was print and radio,
14:42
maybe an occasional billboard, but it
14:44
was mostly print, and it was
14:45
high-volume. Like, I was pushing
14:48
anywhere from 80 to 120 grand through my
14:50
desk a week. Mhm. So, it's like a lot.
14:53
And it's not it's not like two big ads,
14:56
man. This is like a boatload of smaller
14:58
ad work, right? So, um
15:01
and so, I had clients anywhere from,
15:04
you know,
15:06
the smallest of the small businesses
15:07
that were looking to hire one person to
15:10
Eli Lilly. Mhm. They would go ahead and
15:12
uh place an ad in
15:14
the New York Times because they were
15:15
looking to hire some super high-end, you
15:18
know, scientist or whatever.
15:19
>> Yeah. Uh
15:21
and so,
15:23
we Yeah, it was high volume, high
15:25
pressure, a lot of hard deadlines
15:27
because it was still a lot of print.
15:29
Uh,
15:30
and I learned the media business and I
15:34
would say the basics of the production
15:37
creative production ad business there
15:39
from the ground kind of ground up.
15:42
Um,
15:43
but again, you're sitting there and
15:44
you're pushing, you know, six figures
15:46
through your desk a week and you're
15:47
going,
15:48
"They're making X I know what they're
15:50
making on this and I know what my salary
15:52
is. You do the math, it's not super
15:54
complex. You understand taxes and
15:56
basically
15:57
uh, and you understand the benefits
15:59
basically. It's like,
16:02
"Yeah, I'm I'm making them a lot of
16:04
money and I'm not getting paid a lot of
16:07
money. I wonder if I have someday maybe
16:08
I could do this myself."
16:10
>> So, that's the first time maybe in your
16:12
life you're thinking there could be a
16:13
point in time.
16:14
>> Correct. Okay. That glimmer in my brain
16:17
or spark in my brain that said, "You
16:18
know, at some point
16:21
this this isn't rocket science.
16:24
What the tough part is is winning
16:25
clients.
16:26
Always has been, always will be.
16:29
But if you can deliver value,
16:31
you're good, man. Okay. I was delivering
16:33
a ton of value Yep. for my employer for
16:37
my clients. They loved My clients liked
16:38
me, my employer liked me.
16:41
It's great. So, did that for a couple
16:43
years, made some really good friends.
16:45
That that job The best part of that job
16:47
was not only was I learning the business
16:48
from the ground up, but I I've got some
16:50
friends I'm still friends with to this
16:51
day that I made at that place.
16:53
Uh, everybody worked their ass off at
16:55
that place. Mhm. It was not one where
16:57
you sat around idle. Uh, you were busy
16:59
the time you sat down the time you left.
17:03
You got your lunch break and they you
17:04
back at it. Yeah. So, we were like
17:06
brothers in arms all the time. No
17:07
kidding. That's a straight.
17:09
So, did that for a couple years. Uh, an
17:12
opportunity opened up. I got a phone
17:13
call about an opportunity that was
17:15
possibly opening up uh, at a tech
17:17
startup in Indianapolis and that was
17:19
probably in 2001.
17:22
They had already they were they were in
17:23
existence. They already exist. This is a
17:25
middle of it for marketing director.
17:27
Um
17:29
and you know, again, I think it was more
17:32
work ethic than it was
17:34
uh
17:36
like actual knowledge at point, but I
17:39
had been researching, you know, more in
17:41
in
17:42
the digital space. I mean, I started
17:44
learning like really basic website
17:46
coding and stuff like that when I was at
17:48
Ball State. Like they had random courses
17:49
in my major, which I still to this day
17:51
don't understand how they they did that,
17:53
but
17:54
my major ended up TCOM ended up being my
17:56
minor. Speech com was my major. So,
17:58
basically my degree is out of the
18:00
College of Communication, but in the
18:01
speech major, they started somebody
18:03
there decided coding classes were good.
18:06
No kidding. Yeah, it was totally
18:08
bizarre. I don't even know how that came
18:10
about, but I signed up for it.
18:12
And so, I was doing like basic like HTML
18:15
like and it was all like you had to
18:16
learn and write the code. There was no
18:17
like code carriers and stuff back then.
18:19
It was all
18:21
I had to do it. So, making my own little
18:23
cheesy websites and stuff in that class.
18:25
So, I was kind of kind of exposed to it.
18:27
I go, "Man, this is really cool. Like
18:28
this there's a lot of possibility here.
18:30
I don't know quite what it all is yet."
18:32
Sure.
18:33
So, fast forward a couple years and I'm
18:36
going back to accept I interviewed, got
18:38
the job. Uh
18:40
very disruptive company, which
18:42
made its mark on me. Like, you can you
18:44
can disrupt an industry.
18:46
You keep in mind, this is 2001
18:50
in Indianapolis. How many tech startups
18:53
were there in 2001 right in
18:54
Indianapolis? Yeah, what? Hats off to
18:56
the gentleman who started the company
18:58
and the folks that came up with that
18:59
because
19:00
uh
19:01
they're just it's like people are like,
19:03
"What?" Yeah, it's not like today. Today
19:05
it was like, "What are you worried
19:06
about?" Point was around in 2001. No.
19:08
Hell yeah. And I don't think the the the
19:11
community
19:13
like championed tech startups back then.
19:15
Actually, we were hated.
19:17
Uh the the the industry we were
19:18
disrupting absolutely detested us.
19:22
>> No kidding.
19:23
>> press did not like us. Nobody liked us.
19:26
And it was like
19:28
today they probably would be embraced
19:30
and cherished, loved, and supported, and
19:32
all that. But back then, man, it was it
19:35
was uh kind of rough. I'm kidding. Oh,
19:37
yeah.
19:38
Um so to the job uh
19:41
started learning like how to do like uh
19:44
back then organic SEO actually was
19:46
organic SEO. Like that you could
19:48
actually
19:49
you know
19:51
perform that work Mhm. and get yield
19:54
from it. Um
19:56
and it was I'm sure somebody out there's
19:58
going to go, "Yeah, you still can." Yes,
19:59
you can, yeah. But it's just it was a
20:01
lot different back then. Of course, this
20:02
is 20-some years ago, yeah. Completely
20:04
different. Um
20:06
and then just understanding how to
20:08
utilize multimedia in our messaging.
20:11
Okay. So, I walked in that place that
20:14
100 listings.
20:15
Okay, it was real estate company. Had
20:16
100 home listings. And the goal is to
20:19
obviously increase listings, but you
20:21
know, the old the old kind of guerrilla
20:22
marketing. I don't think people use that
20:24
term anymore. I'm dating myself, but
20:26
incredibly effective. So, it's like,
20:28
"How can we
20:29
how can we stand out from every other
20:31
real estate company?" Well, they had
20:33
already done the branding. Mhm. The the
20:35
their ad agency was fantastic. Um
20:39
they'd done the branding, so they
20:41
completely looked unique on their lawn
20:43
signs. They
20:44
everything, piece of material, the
20:46
website, and you name it. But I still to
20:47
this day think single most powerful tool
20:50
they had in their arsenal was
20:53
they saved ton of they saved they saved
20:55
buyers and sellers to both cash just
20:57
based on the model. Mhm. And they
20:59
[clears throat] had a ticker on the
21:00
website.
21:02
And every time they sold a home that
21:03
ticker changed.
21:05
We've saved home buyers number. Mhm.
21:08
We've saved home sellers number and that
21:10
number just was
21:12
Yep. You leverage that every chance you
21:14
get. Every chance you get. The second
21:17
most powerful thing we had was
21:18
consistent brand language in the the
21:20
startup. Every single person, and this
21:22
is something I worked on once I got in
21:24
there. Every single person, you had to
21:26
have script, right? But it had did
21:28
wasn't like you're reading from a
21:29
script. It's like this is how we talk
21:31
about the company. This is how we talk
21:32
about the brand. This is how we talk
21:34
about our service. This is how we
21:35
explain our service. Most people do not
21:37
understand how we do what we do. All
21:39
they understand is I can save how much
21:42
on the sale of my home, right? Versus a
21:44
traditional process. Yep. That's that's
21:47
the hook, right? That's the big juicy
21:48
number.
21:50
And it's real. Mhm. Now we have to help
21:52
them understand why it's not a complete
21:54
nightmare for them to do it this way.
21:55
Mhm. That's one thing is you're going to
21:57
gain a lot financially actually at your
21:59
home.
22:00
You should get the majority of the
22:02
equity out of it. That's right. And now
22:05
we're going to help you understand it's
22:07
not that difficult, right? Well, again,
22:10
the web was the web, so you couldn't
22:12
really
22:13
put out this really rich digital
22:15
messaging. But we we decided we can. We
22:18
sent you CD-ROMs. So it was the days of
22:21
AOL. How many AOL CD-ROMs did you get in
22:23
the mail? Oh, yeah. How many sure if you
22:26
know, whatever. All over the place. But
22:28
nobody else really was pushing it like
22:30
AOL was. So we're like, you know, we're
22:32
going to do a CD-ROM. We're going to
22:33
make it look as unique as the it's going
22:35
to be unique just like the brand is. And
22:37
we're going to put it in a clear
22:38
packaging so people can see who it is,
22:41
what it is.
22:42
They don't have to guess. Yeah, we're
22:44
going to get this thing. I would
22:46
literally get in my truck and drive all
22:49
over the city of Minneapolis and anybody
22:51
that owned a for sale by owner sign in
22:53
their yard got this thing. And I put
22:54
hooks on these. So you'd get a CD-ROM,
22:58
square package with a circular CD in it,
23:00
brightly colored brand message hook
23:05
hang up right on the front of it
23:06
doorknob or the mailbox whatever No
23:09
kidding. And I would do that.
23:13
every week
23:14
I would just take turns on which side of
23:17
town and which neighborhood I go there
23:18
hot neighborhoods sell a lot of homes
23:20
then time broderick will Butler
23:22
Tarkington
23:23
pepper the hell out of those
23:24
neighborhoods
23:26
Greenwood
23:27
certain neighborhoods pepper the hell
23:29
out of it anywhere there's a Fizbo Yeah,
23:31
they're getting one of these. Go to the
23:33
home show and hand out
23:34
5000 CD-ROMs
23:37
book
23:38
uh book events at the local libraries
23:41
and host events so we can educate people
23:43
on advertising locally local papers. I
23:46
mean you do this was the most gorilla of
23:47
gorilla about super gorilla marketing Oh
23:49
yeah. You could come up with.
23:52
I I I after 2 years
23:54
I left but where I walk in at 100
23:56
listings where I left at 7 over 700
23:58
listings. Holy cow. homes and they were
24:00
the fastest growing real estate company
24:03
think at that point in the state of
24:04
Indiana. No kidding.
24:05
>> And their broker probably I think she
24:07
was ranked
24:10
in the top four
24:12
Wow. sales That's terrific. in that
24:15
two-year period
24:16
So she delivered out of the sacks like
24:18
number two or three. You're learning on
24:20
the job but clearly some creativity in
24:22
there and doing
24:24
different Yeah, you got to do it
24:25
differently. No other real estate
24:27
company was doing what we're doing.
24:28
Sure. And they were couldn't not get one
24:30
of those tech hot CD-ROMs. Got you.
24:33
Yeah. Got you. All right. So you've had
24:35
the itch. You're thinking about starting
24:37
your own company.
24:39
You've now gone in and had your first
24:41
director role running this organization.
24:44
You decide you're going to take off but
24:46
I don't think the next step is starting
24:48
the business is it right so what's next?
24:51
>> No, at that point I said you know what I
24:52
probably want to I'm going to work for a
24:54
bigger company like I've worked for
24:56
some pretty small shops Even the ad
24:58
agency, it was a regional office for
25:00
national firm, but our office was on the
25:02
maybe it was 20 or 30 people. Okay.
25:05
So, and in the end
25:06
you know, I see see what else is out
25:08
there. So,
25:09
I saw a job opening posted for uh
25:11
McDonald's Corporation and they had at
25:13
the time they had an Indianapolis
25:15
regional office.
25:16
Uh
25:17
>> [clears throat]
25:17
>> so, I applied for the job, marketing job
25:20
and uh
25:22
I I was one of two finalists for that
25:24
job.
25:25
And uh
25:27
I got a phone call said, "Uh you know,
25:28
we're sorry. We we we selected the other
25:30
person."
25:31
>> Mhm. I said, "Okay, well, I appreciate
25:33
the call and I appreciate the
25:34
opportunity. Thanks for letting me
25:35
know."
25:37
And
25:37
I was going on with my day. Sure. And
25:40
then I got a call back like 2 days
25:42
later.
25:43
And uh it was McDonald's again. They
25:45
said, "Hey, uh are you still You think
25:47
you're still interested?"
25:49
I said, "Yeah, I think so."
25:52
And they said, "Well, the other person
25:53
will want you to come in and uh let's
25:55
meet, talk." I said, "Okay, great."
25:57
Went in there, sat down. The gentleman
26:00
who was the the decision-maker and end
26:02
up being I had a couple bosses there. He
26:04
was like the senior most senior boss so
26:06
I had there.
26:08
He said, "You know, uh as part of the
26:10
job requirement is if you've never
26:13
worked in our system before,
26:15
you need to spit that the person hired
26:17
for this job will have to work 30 days
26:19
in a restaurant so they learn
26:22
our processes,
26:24
our how our our restaurants run and
26:26
operations side of the business because
26:28
the more you know about the operations
26:29
of a restaurant, the better marketer
26:31
better marketer you're going to be and
26:32
better you're more uh empowered you're
26:34
going to be able to do your job as a
26:35
marketer for us. That's great, super."
26:37
He said, "Unfortunate not unfortunately,
26:39
but basically said the other person uh
26:41
we offered the job to refused
26:44
to do 30 days in the restaurant." Mhm.
26:48
I said, "You're kidding me."
26:49
He said, "No."
26:51
He said, "Is that something you're
26:52
willing to do?" I said,
26:54
"Yeah, I'm willing to do it. What do I
26:56
care? Like I agree with you."
26:58
>> Yeah, why not? I need to learn what I'm
26:59
doing here. Right. Right.
27:02
Fast forward, right? I learn the I I I
27:04
do the job. I do it for a couple years.
27:07
Uh
27:08
you see a pattern here. Mhm.
27:11
After 2 years,
27:13
number one in transaction counts in the
27:15
country.
27:16
I think
27:18
about a year and a half in, we were
27:19
number two in sale, like
27:22
dollar sales. Why not?
27:24
>> they count transactions, it's just how
27:25
many people come in and buy something.
27:27
Not has nothing to do with the amount of
27:29
dollars they make. So, we were number
27:31
one.
27:32
And we were number two in actual dollars
27:35
sold. No kidding. Yeah.
27:37
The any region had never done that
27:39
before, ever.
27:40
Uh and
27:42
and you're going to say, "Well, don't
27:43
sit there and take all the credit for
27:45
that, Jacob. There's a lot of people."
27:46
Of course not. I wouldn't. That's silly.
27:49
However,
27:50
there are a lot of system or not
27:52
systems, but there are a lot of
27:53
initiatives that
27:55
were uh
27:58
managed that
28:01
that weren't managed prior to that, the
28:02
way they were managed when I was there.
28:04
What I mean by that is, for example, so
28:07
and you learn you pick up things, right?
28:08
When you're in a company like that.
28:10
There's a lot of people that in a
28:11
company like McDonald's have been there
28:13
like forever, their entire careers.
28:15
They have terms for it. They're
28:16
McDonaldized.
28:18
And uh
28:19
but they're really sharp, man. They know
28:21
that business like Oh, sure. Inside and
28:23
out. Oh my gosh, they know every
28:27
inch of everything.
28:29
And you pick up on that, right? You
28:31
learn things. And even in that, you spot
28:33
opportunities. So, when the guy who's in
28:35
charge of marketing for the entire
28:37
system
28:40
takes you on a tour of restaurants and
28:42
he makes a comment like, "Do you know"
28:44
he goes, "most most don't think I'm
28:46
don't believe us, but if you
28:48
properly if the point of purchase
28:51
displays that are sent out to the
28:52
restaurants every 6 weeks, if those are
28:54
placed properly 100% of the time, you
28:56
can expect a low to mid single digit
29:00
increase in sales. Hmm, annualized.
29:03
And I'm like, for business like
29:05
McDonald's, if you get even a 2%
29:06
increase in sales, that's a big It's
29:08
huge. Big deal.
29:09
>> Yeah, it's big. And I'm like, that's all
29:12
it takes?
29:13
That's it.
29:15
Like, okay. Yep. Duly noted. Right.
29:19
That's one of my core responsibilities
29:21
in my job.
29:22
If that's all it takes, man, I'm not an
29:24
idiot. Like, I'm going to make damn sure
29:27
that every single
29:30
window clean everything is
29:32
exactly where it needs to be. Not only
29:34
where it needs to be, but on time up, on
29:36
time down. Yeah. Because if it's still
29:39
up and the promotion's done, and the
29:41
customer tries to orders whatever's on
29:42
that thing,
29:43
they're going to be upset.
29:45
>> That's crying. That's a problem.
29:46
>> Yep. And they're not only upset with
29:48
your restaurant, they get pissed at
29:49
McDonald's. So, they might not only
29:51
decide not to go back to your
29:53
restaurant, they may decide next time
29:54
they're traveling on the highway not to
29:55
visit another McDonald's. Right. That's
29:57
yes, huge system. So,
29:59
So, I'm like, okay.
30:00
There's one. Mhm.
30:02
There's just like and again and again
30:04
and again. There's little things I pick
30:06
up while I'm there like, oh,
30:08
they used to they used to perform this
30:10
promotional program and they stopped. I
30:11
wonder why.
30:13
Talked to my operations people. Well,
30:16
the challenges were this this this and
30:17
this. Okay, if we solve those
30:19
challenges, can we continue with family
30:21
nights every third you know, the third
30:23
Thursday of the month and rotate it for
30:25
every year on and on and on and on and
30:26
on.
30:27
Yeah.
30:28
Okay. Well, let's solve these
30:30
challenges. Let's implement. Let's
30:32
execute. Let's see what happens. Sure. A
30:35
year and a half of that
30:37
and it all adds up. Yeah, like 1 2% on
30:40
that sales a lot of money. It it it is.
30:41
Yeah, sure. And on top of that, it's
30:44
like we're still only accepting cash.
30:47
That's right. I remember this. Yeah. You
30:49
know, like
30:51
um guys, like we have a reputation and
30:54
we're the lead, we're number one. We are
30:55
bigger than like our next two or three
30:57
competitors combined.
30:59
And they're accepting
31:01
debit and credit cards. Why are we not?
31:03
And it's it was a big deal because they
31:04
didn't want to slow down service. Mhm.
31:06
Right? We don't want to slow service
31:07
down, especially in the drive-thru.
31:09
Okay, there's the challenge.
31:11
>> [clears throat]
31:11
>> Can we solve that challenge
31:13
operationally or with technology
31:15
somehow? So,
31:17
I I ended up writing and I I think I
31:19
told you this story. I ended up writing
31:20
this email. It had to been the most
31:22
ridiculously long email ever, too, cuz I
31:25
asked my I ended up finding out
31:28
who was in charge of
31:30
point of sale systems Mhm. for
31:31
McDonald's out of Oakbrook, Illinois, in
31:33
that course.
31:34
I said, I'm going to write
31:35
[clears throat] to this person and
31:36
they're probably going to think I'm just
31:37
some nitwit in Indy. Yep.
31:39
>> And so I like, what do I got to lose?
31:41
Sure, darn it.
31:44
I composed this
31:45
long email. I probably took me probably
31:47
2 days before I finally got the courage
31:49
to send it, but it was basically
31:51
explaining, like, can we please
31:54
Here's the case study. Yeah. Like,
31:56
here's what I think's going to happen.
31:57
Right. I can't prove it because nobody's
31:59
rolled out digital payment systems yet.
32:02
But not only is there opportunity for
32:05
our customers because, you know, our
32:06
target market is young adult male.
32:08
A lot of those folks are not all
32:09
carrying carrying cash. Oh, I happen to
32:11
be one of them. I don't carry cash. I
32:13
carry a debit card or a credit card and
32:14
that's how I pay for things. And you
32:16
automatically veto me as a customer.
32:18
Your number one audience segment, your
32:19
number one customer segment, you're
32:21
telling me I can't buy your food. That's
32:23
right, because I'm not carrying cash.
32:25
That's system-wide.
32:27
Can we test this in Indianapolis?
32:29
Please, please let us test this and
32:32
show,
32:33
you know, if nothing else, we can figure
32:35
out if are the challenge is real.
32:38
And if they're not,
32:40
let's go. That's right. So,
32:43
I don't know that any I never I don't
32:45
recall if I ever got a response to that
32:46
email. Maybe a thank you, we appreciate
32:48
your tissue or brand.
32:50
Buzz off, whatever. But, I kept
32:53
harassing my people, my operations
32:55
people in Indy, and we got a test, and
32:58
we tested it at 96th and Meridian.
33:01
No kidding. Yeah. Um that was if I
33:04
recall, that was our first test. And
33:06
they wanted to just They wanted a place
33:08
that gets bombarded at lunchtime every
33:10
day, and to really put this thing
33:13
through the fire.
33:14
Fast forward a couple weeks, and lo and
33:16
behold, the person who ran all of our
33:18
POS systems in the regional office,
33:20
she's like,
33:22
"Well,
33:25
I guess you were right."
33:26
>> Mhm. Look at the average ticket, cuz I
33:29
told her I said, "Not only are you going
33:30
to get more more sales because you're
33:32
making it more convenient, right? Your
33:33
target market, and everybody else,
33:35
frankly, to buy our products, they'll
33:38
buy more." They're going to spend more.
33:40
That's right.
33:41
So, our average ticket went up.
33:45
And I told her I said, "Tell me you're
33:46
not surprised." Mhm.
33:48
And she was like, "Well, well, I know."
33:51
>> [laughter]
33:51
>> Do not surprised. Come on.
33:54
So,
33:55
it was about time to have that
33:56
conversation on the old rings. Okay.
34:00
And um
34:02
uh I'll spare all the gory details, but
34:04
basically, they offered me a promotion
34:07
into Oak Brook, and I
34:09
We just had our first child, and my wife
34:10
and I discussed it. We really didn't
34:11
want to move. Yeah, Oak Brook, Illinois.
34:13
Right.
34:14
So, I said, "Thanks, but no thanks. Um
34:17
I'll stick around here." And then I got
34:18
a call from my current business partner
34:21
and co-founder of Basement Bar,
34:22
Phillips. He said, "Hey, I've got an
34:23
idea. Mhm.
34:26
Uh do you want to go grab a beer?" I
34:27
said, "Well, regardless of your idea,
34:29
I'd be happy to go grab
34:30
>> [laughter]
34:31
>> If you can freeze and
34:33
Let's do it.
34:34
And uh that was the first uh
34:37
And oh by the way, we just had our first
34:38
child. I just enrolled in evening MBA
34:41
program at Butler.
34:42
So you're working for McDonald's, have a
34:44
kid.
34:45
Partner calls, don't know he's going to
34:47
be your partner yet. Just know he's your
34:48
friend.
34:49
You guys come together. Put together
34:52
some stuff.
34:53
At that point you decide you're going to
34:54
be an entrepreneur. You guys start the
34:56
business.
34:56
>> Uh it took a minute. Um he had he he and
34:59
I had talked off and on the last couple
35:01
of years. We've known each other since
35:03
we were high school kids. Uh his older
35:04
brother and I are really really really
35:06
friends and that's how I met him was
35:07
through his brother.
35:10
And uh as we got through the young adult
35:13
part of our life um
35:15
he was out of school, he was working uh
35:17
at an engineering firm and he had
35:19
launched uh their creative studio. I
35:22
wouldn't even call it a creative studio.
35:25
But it was. It was like
35:27
half creative, half technology studio
35:28
within the engineering firm.
35:31
And
35:32
he was doing just some really really
35:33
amazing work. I mean, stuff that I was
35:35
just like, "Holy cow, man. You're
35:37
delivering like a video like a
35:38
first-person shooter video game
35:39
experience
35:41
over the like on CD-ROM, but you're
35:43
doing it for like civil engineering
35:45
projects. Like this is wild, man. This
35:48
is cool. This is really cool. It's all
35:50
in 3D. It looked like a Xbox game.
35:53
And I was like,
35:56
"That's interesting."
35:57
>> Yeah. Um and he was doing a lot of other
35:59
things.
36:00
>> Like he had his own little startup on
36:01
the side at the time.
36:04
And that's his story to tell, but uh I
36:07
had ideas about starting other
36:08
businesses that were kind of technology
36:10
related
36:11
>> Mhm. uh
36:12
at the time that I had asked him about.
36:14
Said, "Hey man, how would I do this from
36:16
a technology perspective?" Like
36:18
I think I could do this all on like a
36:20
DVD-ROM or something and
36:22
he's like, "Yeah, and I know eventually
36:23
it would go on the web, but the web just
36:25
not robust enough now for this concept.
36:27
It'd have to be on a disk.
36:28
>> Mhm. So, we were throwing ideas back and
36:31
forth just kind of
36:32
on whims.
36:34
And then he he basically said, "Yeah,
36:35
man. I We went had beers." And he said,
36:37
"I think I want to open up my own
36:38
digital studio." That's incredibly
36:40
interesting to me cuz I'd seen his work
36:43
and I could see knew I was like, "Nobody
36:44
else is doing stuff like this outside of
36:46
your studio at least in in this area."
36:48
>> Yeah, right. Like this is totally
36:49
unique. Um I mean, he's got his name on
36:52
patents and things that he did while he
36:55
was at that
36:56
at that uh
36:58
that company and
37:00
I said, "Yeah, this is this is really I
37:02
said, you know, as a marketer I I told
37:03
him I said as a marketer
37:05
it's like the I think the best marketers
37:08
just know what to find that's
37:10
marketable." Okay, there you go. All
37:12
right. Like if if if you know,
37:14
hamburgers everybody sells a hamburger.
37:16
Mhm. That's incredibly hard to market
37:19
because there's just so much of it out
37:20
there. You have to have something unique
37:22
about a hamburger. Mhm. McDonald's they
37:25
have all this other brand equity. They
37:26
have all these other things. They're a
37:28
retailer. Mhm. Well, they're a real
37:29
estate company but they're also a
37:31
retailer. Right. At one point they were
37:33
the world's largest retailer of toys.
37:36
So, when you understand that it's like,
37:37
"Okay, that opens up a marketer's mind
37:38
to all these other things." And we
37:40
discussed it and neither one of us had
37:42
ever started a business or had a
37:44
business but obviously worked for them
37:45
and and had a decent well of experience.
37:50
So, I talked to my wife. I said,
37:51
"Obviously, if I do this I can't do the
37:53
MBA thing." So, you take off like that's
37:56
20 years ago now, right? Yeah, aren't
37:57
you guys Uh over 20 because that that
38:00
was not the basement. That was just
38:02
Oh, no kidding. Right. That's our first
38:03
digital studio.
38:05
So, with that going we thought, "Well,
38:06
we'll sell to who buys your work now.
38:08
We'll go sell to engineering firms,
38:10
architecture firms, you know."
38:12
That that's like the shortest path to
38:14
revenue. Mhm. So, we started working out
38:18
of the spare bedroom of his house. That
38:19
was our office.
38:21
He's doing like demo projects to show
38:23
people what we can do and I while he's
38:26
working on that stuff, I'm just dialing
38:27
for dollars. I'm going to have him cold
38:30
calls us setting up appointments. Yeah.
38:32
So, the goal is to have two to three
38:33
appointments a week.
38:34
Minimal. And every week. All the time.
38:38
Yeah. Eventually, we're going to get
38:39
work and
38:41
uh the other the other at that again at
38:44
that point in time, I did a lot put on a
38:45
lot of miles from McDonald's part of my
38:47
job like I I handled Indianapolis all
38:49
the way to like
38:50
southern edge of Michigan. Okay.
38:53
So, I was driving a lot and I was
38:55
listening to audio books because you
38:56
know, you don't listen to the And for
38:58
radio so much, we have stuff. Yep. So,
39:00
I'm listening to a lot of Seth Godin
39:01
books. And the Idea Virus was one that
39:03
just really grabbed
39:05
my attention and my understanding.
39:09
And so, I said, you know man, that's
39:10
part of our plan. Like we wrote up a
39:11
really formal
39:13
complete business plan before we
39:14
launched our first business and that was
39:17
probably the single best thing we could
39:18
have done.
39:20
And anybody who wants to start a
39:21
business, if you haven't gone through
39:22
that process, you should. Uh I rarely
39:25
anymore in my older wiser self tell
39:27
people what they should or shouldn't do.
39:29
Mhm.
39:30
That's one I would say you should do.
39:32
Yeah, start with a good plan.
39:33
>> Oh my god. Yeah, and if you don't know
39:35
how
39:36
I think there there are a lot. You I
39:38
didn't know how. I got online and I
39:40
researched. I found an award-winning
39:42
business plan from the Harvard Business
39:44
School. Mhm. Just happened to be
39:46
revolving around a service-based
39:47
business. So, I'm like, well, what
39:48
better template to use what better model
39:51
to learn from than a Harvard Business
39:53
School award-winning business plan?
39:54
Yeah, sure. Thanks, internet. Yep. So,
39:56
that business grew pretty quickly over
39:58
the next couple years
39:59
um and Brian and I uh
40:02
just decided at some point it was
40:03
probably time for us to
40:05
to move on here. Okay. Um and so, we did
40:09
and at that point it was 2007
40:11
and uh
40:13
we we
40:14
I thought we were just going to go find
40:15
jobs and move on, but we ended up
40:17
starting the basement. But that So you
40:19
start with zero in this one. So the
40:20
basement, right? Now you guys have been
40:22
at this for 20 years. I'm sure there's
40:23
been some evolutions. But but what is it
40:26
that you guys were doing at the
40:27
basement? What Who you serving and what
40:29
are you guys doing? Um you know, over 20
40:31
years at this point it's even kind of
40:33
hard for me to remember all the stuff
40:35
we've done. Sure, but I can I can tell
40:37
you there's certain milestones, right?
40:39
So at the beginning
40:41
we started because we were at the other
40:42
shop, we were competing against
40:44
agencies, and we said, you know, a lot
40:45
of these agencies we're competing
40:46
against they don't know how to deliver.
40:49
They don't have a ton of experience
40:51
delivering digital because digital is
40:53
still very young. Mhm. [clears throat]
40:55
And it was poo-pooed. A lot of
40:56
traditional agencies at that point were
40:57
like, "I mean,
40:59
this isn't like it's TV and billboards
41:01
and radio. Yes, it is. That's an
41:03
important part of it, but
41:05
man, the internet's the future, guys.
41:07
Whether you believe it or not, that's
41:09
that's just scratching the surface."
41:11
Like trying in 2005 I wrote at the at
41:15
that point in time it was called the
41:17
21st Century Fund.
41:19
Now, I don't know what they call it.
41:21
IEDC or Elevate Ventures, whatever the
41:24
21st Century Fund morphed into over the
41:27
last
41:28
Yep. It's for
41:29
20 years.
41:31
Um
41:32
I don't know. I wrote 21st Century Fund
41:34
I wrote for an investment or grant from
41:37
them.
41:38
And it was interactive video on demand
41:40
is what we called it. Or IPTV, internet
41:43
protocol television. You had had a model
41:45
where we wanted to basically
41:47
create a subscription service for
41:50
traditional media outlets. Specifically
41:53
print outlets because they hadn't
41:54
digitized yet. Mhm. Their their digital
41:57
products were terrible, but it really
41:58
wasn't about that. It was about the ad
42:00
model.
42:01
Their ad models were completely just
42:03
based on the old school ad model. So we
42:05
said, you know, you can do contextual
42:06
advertising in print. Look.
42:10
And people may not want to get the you
42:12
can't do that in the print it
42:14
model. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's all
42:16
static. You have to pre-sell. And I knew
42:18
that from my old days selling ads in
42:19
print. Like that's all static and you
42:21
have to sell it like a week in advance
42:23
or two weeks in advance. You have to
42:24
produce it and you have to meet the
42:26
deadline then it has to go to the
42:27
printer. Then it like the internet you
42:29
wipe all that crap away.
42:31
Update. Sorry. Done. Yeah. Sounds stupid
42:35
and rudimentary now.
42:37
Back then, it wasn't stupid and
42:39
rudimentary. It was they nobody was
42:41
doing it yet. Of course. I wrote a
42:43
grant. Like look, this is the future,
42:45
man. This is you want to create an ad
42:47
model that is all contextual base that
42:49
we can go and sell to the to every ad in
42:52
newspapers in the country and they can
42:54
all run on the same system. Mhm. So that
42:56
whenever they publish the print piece, I
42:57
mean at some point it it automate. So if
43:00
you're writing a story in the sports
43:01
section about LeBron James's game last
43:04
night, hey, you already know LeBron
43:05
wears Nikes. He's a Nike guy.
43:09
Why have you Why isn't the ad
43:10
automatically propagating in there? Sell
43:12
LeBron some Nike shoes. Mhm. It was
43:14
2005. Yep. And I'm like it's product Now
43:18
they might call it product placement but
43:20
even product placement isn't done
43:21
instantaneou- instantaneously based on
43:24
the content and it doesn't change
43:25
instantaneously based on the content. At
43:27
least not in passive video.
43:30
So we're like I'm writing this freaking
43:32
grant and it's like a 50-page deal
43:34
explaining this. We had a model, we had
43:36
kind of a wireframe with the technology,
43:39
all this stuff.
43:41
And whoever's in charge in the 21st
43:43
century defined at that time is like
43:46
I think they probably thought we were
43:48
insane.
43:49
>> Yeah. You guys are great for what Yeah.
43:51
And they're like, well,
43:53
this already exists. There's already
43:54
media players out there. I know, man.
43:58
That's your response? A media player?
44:00
>> Mhm.
44:01
Okay.
44:03
And then that point I was like that this
44:05
isn't where it's at. Like I'm I'm I
44:07
shouldn't give up on that when I did. I
44:09
was like, we're just going to do our
44:11
saying advertising. So, we're going to
44:13
go be a digital studio for traditional
44:15
agencies. Mhm. So, and help them. And we
44:19
don't need to be in front of the client.
44:21
We don't need to to All we need to do is
44:24
give them the ability to deliver on this
44:27
type of work.
44:27
>> Yep.
44:28
So, that's what we did. We launched the
44:30
basement. And nobody in Indy would work
44:32
with us cuz they were probably mad. I
44:35
don't know. They just didn't like us or
44:37
they knew we were competing against them
44:39
the last couple of years. We thought,
44:40
well, we'll go to them and help them.
44:42
Wouldn't they like that?
44:43
Naivete strikes again. Um and that's
44:46
okay. And it's like, okay, so but we did
44:49
get a lot of work out of
44:51
We got a lot of work out of Cincinnati,
44:54
a lot of work out of Columbus, Ohio, and
44:56
we got a lot of work out of New York,
44:59
Detroit, Arizona,
45:02
and wherever else, but the majority of
45:04
it came from like the bigger cities not
45:07
too far from Indy.
45:08
>> No kidding. Yeah. So, that's how we we
45:10
made our bones for the first couple of
45:12
years of that business. Um
45:14
and and it was really really well
45:16
received by certain groups and certain
45:19
agencies. And then, you know, they start
45:21
trying to figure out how to do it
45:22
themselves. Yeah.
45:23
And
45:24
>> [clears throat]
45:24
>> it's like, okay, that's cool. Um so, we
45:27
started kind of weaning off that and and
45:30
we had a couple of clients wanting to
45:31
work with us directly without an agency
45:34
and must be there. I wouldn't even say
45:36
agency. It was more project work. Okay.
45:39
Um
45:40
and so, we accept we took on those
45:42
clients. They were pretty big projects.
45:43
We delivered. And uh
45:46
that's when, probably around 2012, we we
45:48
really just went full full bore client
45:51
facing. Gotcha. We just kind of
45:53
faded away on our on our agency facing
45:56
business and focused on client facing
45:58
business. Gotcha. You know, your
46:00
business is interesting. That journey
46:01
after this point is interesting, right?
46:03
Just from the beginning of not wanting
46:05
to go to college, working in
46:07
construction, you know, wanting to be a
46:08
DJ, and then figuring this stuff out,
46:10
right? So, it's it's it's cool story.
46:13
The basement in in your journey, you've
46:15
seen an awful lot of stuff. You've seen
46:17
a lot of changes in technology, right?
46:19
And now,
46:21
there's been lots of different points
46:22
when technology's been,
46:24
you know, different and the internet
46:26
coming out and all those different
46:27
things. But, today with AI and all this
46:29
other stuff, I'm curious in your
46:31
business,
46:32
where is technology playing today? And
46:35
kind of where do you think that's going
46:36
to maybe morph into the next year or so?
46:39
You know, it's interesting. We We We
46:40
talk about this, and we've talked about
46:42
it recently, and it's like um
46:45
there are inflection points, right? So,
46:46
the internet was this gigantic
46:48
inflection point.
46:50
And I I used to say it was the great
46:53
equalizer because back in the day,
46:55
pre-internet,
46:57
I learned this This is funny. I learned
46:59
this on a job site once in construction.
47:02
I was working on a job site, and these
47:04
two guys were talking, and one guy was
47:05
from Florida, and he was now living in
47:07
Indianapolis and working here.
47:10
He was talking to somebody who'd worked
47:11
here his whole life.
47:13
And the guy from Florida said, "You
47:14
know, you guys I've been up here now for
47:16
like a year and a half,
47:18
and
47:20
you know, you guys are like 5 years,
47:21
maybe 8 years behind
47:24
in construction technology. Like, what
47:26
how things are done in Florida, it's
47:28
like it hasn't gotten here yet." You're
47:30
kidding. He's like, "You're like 5 years
47:31
behind." Yep.
47:34
And I used to talk with Brian long time
47:35
ago and say, "You know, it's like it's
47:37
like we're behind like in technology,
47:40
Mhm. and even in the ad space, it's like
47:42
we're behind what's going on in New York
47:44
and LA."
47:47
Um
47:48
but then, as time goes on, right? And
47:50
you've got Everybody's got access to the
47:52
same information at the same time.
47:54
>> Mhm. It's the great equalizer, of
47:56
course, if you stay up on it, which is a
47:58
job in and of itself. It's hard. It's
48:00
got It gets hard. It's gotten harder.
48:02
It's going to get harder.
48:04
Unless you're just native to it, right?
48:05
So, like in 10 years, the people that
48:07
grew up with AI are probably like, "Oh."
48:09
No biggie. Yeah, that's right.
48:10
>> Right. Search engines, when they first
48:12
came out, like you had to learn Boolean
48:14
search in order to make it do a really
48:16
good effective search and do research
48:17
and all that. Now, it's like,
48:20
"Oh, yeah, you get all this information
48:21
at your getting."
48:22
So, it's just like, you know, the
48:23
evolution of everything technology-wise.
48:26
It never stops.
48:27
Um
48:29
And so,
48:31
where is it at now? I think AI is like
48:33
where the internet was
48:35
20 years ago. It's like It's It's coming
48:37
up. It's
48:39
It's like
48:41
People are trying to figure out where it
48:43
fits in best. Mhm. Is it really
48:46
I don't think it's a question of if it's
48:48
going to last. Like, people were
48:49
doubting on the internet, right? You
48:51
look back on that and you're kind of
48:52
chuckle when you go, "They're doubting
48:53
on the internet." Like, this thing's a
48:54
fad. This thing's not going to last.
48:56
Like, Really? Yeah. Come on, guys. Okay.
48:59
Libraries lasted. Mhm.
49:02
The internet's going to last. Like, um
49:04
So, I think AI is probably in a similar
49:07
boat, right? Yeah, but you know, even
49:09
yesterday there was a headline.
49:10
Scott the set meets with the Fed to talk
49:12
about
49:14
AI and the threat of AI to whatever.
49:17
>> Mhm.
49:18
And can we Do we have to lock this thing
49:20
down? I think that was the term they
49:22
said. Are they going to lock it down?
49:24
Right.
49:24
>> Right.
49:25
That's interesting. Um
49:28
>> [clears throat]
49:28
>> A lot of questions, right? I'm not going
49:30
to sit here and try to be uh the guy
49:33
that that writes, you know, 20-page
49:36
articles on AI.
49:38
I can tell you,
49:40
based on our research, how we've started
49:42
to implement it into our business, it's
49:43
a It's like another staff member. Yep.
49:47
It's like another partner in crime,
49:49
right? It's like you
49:52
find out where you find out what it's
49:54
good at, figure out what it's good at as
49:56
it relates to
49:57
what we're doing. Mhm. And again, you've
50:00
probably read this 20 times, and it's
50:02
where could you free up your brains,
50:03
your human brains, to be more strategic
50:06
and provide more value, and let the
50:09
the AI employee
50:11
do kind of the more mundane,
50:13
you know, Yeah. work that that doesn't
50:16
require as much brain power. Mhm. It
50:18
might be time-consuming or more
50:20
time-consuming, but let's figure out
50:22
where those sweet spots are right now.
50:24
Yeah. Leverage it for that, and then
50:26
allow our our
50:27
people
50:29
who need to, you know, creatively solve
50:31
problems, cuz that's ultimately what
50:32
we're in the business of. It's driving
50:34
problems, driving creative
50:35
problem-solvers. It's interesting you go
50:37
down that point, right? So, I talk about
50:39
AIHI,
50:41
human intelligence versus automated
50:43
intelligence, AI, right?
50:45
And if you can leverage AI to be able to
50:47
give yourself more time to do the human
50:50
side of your job,
50:52
you can do these things. You can be in
50:53
front of people, learn and you can do
50:55
those things that humans can think out
50:57
to solve those problems. One of the
50:59
things that got me thinking, though, is
51:01
that you and I grew up in an analog
51:03
world. Yeah. We solved problems, we
51:05
picked up boards, we hammered stuff. I
51:07
had a construction background, those
51:08
types of things, too, right? We solved
51:10
There was something in front of us, we
51:11
solved the problem, we figured it out,
51:12
we could troubleshoot.
51:14
We didn't have We couldn't type into our
51:16
computer, "How do I make this work?"
51:19
right? Or "How do I do this?"
51:21
Kids today, like you said, the
51:23
10-year-olds, they're growing up with
51:24
with AI. They ask, and they put
51:27
something from one box over into another
51:28
box, because that was AI's thought.
51:31
Yeah. And so, I I believe where we are
51:34
today, you and I could solve problems.
51:35
And if I get time back in my day, I can
51:37
do things that are human. Yeah. I'm
51:39
wondering how we create those
51:41
opportunities for our kids, because it
51:42
was different for you and I. Yeah. And
51:44
so, it's going to be a challenge, and it
51:46
Nobody knows exactly where to go. It's
51:48
definitely here to stay. Yeah. The
51:50
internet was here to stay and I was
51:52
there too when people thought yeah, this
51:53
is going to leave. No way. Come on guys.
51:56
And you have older children. I do. Yeah,
51:57
I have a 23-year-old and a 21-year-old
52:01
and they're both graduating college in
52:02
like a month.
52:04
And it's it's been a really interesting
52:07
to see how they Mhm. view
52:11
AI and how my 16-year-old views AI. Oh
52:14
yeah. They're only five you know That's
52:16
right. the number three and number two
52:18
are only five years apart.
52:21
Yep.
52:22
And the other one's only seven years
52:23
apart and their views are like they're
52:26
pretty dramatically different.
52:28
>> Light years. It's like a view in this
52:29
little time window of
52:31
>> Oh and there's
52:32
the young adult versus the the teenager
52:35
and their views on AI. Yep. It's wild.
52:38
And my 23-year-old, it's funny. Uh I
52:40
will not mention the school
52:42
or the class cuz I don't want to I don't
52:44
want to harm the innocent here, but he
52:46
was accused of writing a paper and using
52:48
AI and his professor gave him an F. Mhm.
52:52
[clears throat]
52:53
And he said
52:54
um I wrote that paper. He said he's a
52:57
writer. He likes to write. He's really
52:58
good at He's like I wrote that paper. I
53:00
didn't use AI at all. I didn't even I
53:02
did nothing with AI. He's like I wrote
53:04
that.
53:05
And I said well
53:07
I think that gives you a topic to go
53:08
talk about with your professor, doesn't
53:09
it? Yeah, sure. Talk with this person
53:11
and
53:13
hash it out. He goes
53:15
she refuses to believe me.
53:18
And I said you know what? He came home
53:20
and I whatever. Call this whatever. So
53:23
she she's telling me I'm a liar. Well, I
53:25
said settle down. Yep. There are ways
53:29
son to
53:31
to prove yourself if you want to do it
53:34
online. Like you just said, the kids do
53:36
that online.
53:37
Oh, look at this. Here's a free tool to
53:39
run to scan documents that
53:41
will tell you if AI was used to write it
53:43
or not. I go, "Well, why don't you just
53:44
use that and take whatever it spits out
53:47
Yep. and go take it to your professor.
53:50
And if she doesn't believe you then,
53:52
give her the tool yourself
53:54
or another tool. There's like There's a
53:55
bunch of a bunch of them out there. Yep.
53:57
And let her run through there. Well, he
53:59
did. To his credit, it was I said, "Just
54:01
be respectful, man. Don't be Yeah, I'm
54:03
getting nasty. Yeah, sure. Be
54:04
respectful."
54:06
And uh
54:08
he better than me when I was his age. I
54:09
probably would have done what
54:11
crazy.
54:13
Um
54:15
but he did and after
54:20
a couple of the a couple of discussions,
54:22
the professor finally relented and said,
54:24
"You know what?
54:25
I'm sorry." Mhm. You know, yeah, sorry.
54:28
But in defense of the professor,
54:32
they probably deal with that Oh, yeah.
54:33
I'm sure.
54:34
>> They're probably dealing with it. Like,
54:35
you know,
54:37
almost every day.
54:38
>> Every day. I mean, it's There's The only
54:40
way to get away from it is making kid
54:41
write in a blue book. Don't give him the
54:43
question before he come in. Go back to
54:45
analogs to get original thoughts.
54:48
Yeah, it's It'll be interesting where
54:49
that goes. It's It's cool to hear how
54:51
you guys think about it, though.
54:53
And so, in your business
54:55
community is served, those types of
54:57
things.
54:58
The next topic we always talk about is
55:00
community. What What's As you think
55:02
about community, what's that mean to you
55:04
and kind of how you get engaged with it?
55:06
Um you know, I said this to my wife
55:08
probably no less than 50 times. It's the
55:10
best thing you can do for your community
55:12
is to raise your children to be good
55:13
people.
55:14
Mhm.
55:16
Raise your children to be good people.
55:18
Like, and you know, that's
55:20
you know, that has different That's
55:22
subjective, right? What's your good
55:23
people? Like, okay, let's just do the
55:25
naturals.
55:27
Teary, honesty,
55:29
you know, be nice to people. Right. Just
55:32
generally try to be a good human being.
55:35
Yep. Uh
55:36
and you know, there's guiding principles
55:38
for that we all can agree and and I'm
55:40
sure people
55:42
have different systems and different
55:44
guiding principles. Basically the
55:45
guiding principles
55:48
we instill in our kids and we let we
55:50
we've utilized over the years.
55:52
It's like just ray you know, if we all
55:56
agreed to raise kids to be good kids
55:59
and we did it
56:02
how many problems would we have in our
56:03
communities?
56:05
Probably a lot less we have now. Yeah.
56:08
So that's number one for us. I will
56:12
stick to that
56:14
till I'm in the grave. Like just raise
56:17
your kids to be good people. Please,
56:19
thank you, open the door.
56:21
Uh
56:23
treat other people nicely. They treat
56:26
you like a a jerk then try try your best
56:29
to
56:31
yeah, brush it off or whatever.
56:33
You know, just be a good person.
56:36
Uh and the rest of that of the community
56:38
thing is it kind of
56:39
to me it just kind of grows out of that.
56:42
Like
56:43
I'm not Mother Teresa. I'm not the Pope.
56:46
I'm not going to put myself out there to
56:48
be a savior to my community, right? It's
56:50
just not genuine.
56:52
Uh but that being said
56:55
Brian and I both are huge believers in
56:58
the more grassroots and the more local
57:00
you can be in the good deeds you do or
57:02
better off you probably are and probably
57:05
the more amplified those deeds become.
57:07
In other words I'm not big on huge
57:11
NFP this that and the other like if my
57:14
neighbor needs help I'm going to help my
57:16
neighbor. Yep. My church needs
57:18
volunteers, I'm volunteering at church.
57:21
They need a donation, I'll donate to you
57:22
know, like
57:24
wherever I can make an impact at the
57:26
local level, at the grassroots level and
57:29
I think my family's done a really good
57:30
job of providing me
57:32
with examples for that. So,
57:35
they've always been good. Like my older
57:37
siblings have always volunteered a lot.
57:39
Like at the local church, local school.
57:41
[clears throat]
57:42
Great examples. And And so, I see their
57:45
example and I say, "Well, that's again,
57:49
I'm not their child. I'm not their
57:50
younger brother." So, it's like
57:52
I can learn from that.
57:53
>> Absolutely. And so,
57:55
they're essentially doing for me what
57:57
they're doing for their own children.
57:59
They're raising other helping me
58:00
understand how to be a good neighbor,
58:02
how to be a good participant in my
58:03
community, whether it's Little League,
58:06
volunteering to coach a team,
58:08
volunteering at church to clean up after
58:10
the festival.
58:12
I like I like that. I like going getting
58:14
physical and sure and doing things to
58:17
help clean up whatever. Like
58:19
to me that's that's good. And then when
58:21
I do that, it gives an example to my
58:23
kids, too. Yeah. So, now that my two
58:25
older ones, they're going to go off to
58:27
work here in a few months and they're
58:28
moving out of town and
58:30
so, when they get into their
58:31
communities, hopefully,
58:33
they saw that and they carried forward.
58:35
Uh-huh. So, like what else is there to
58:37
do? Like there's a lot more you can do,
58:39
but I look at it like
58:41
the basics matter, the local community
58:44
matters and um
58:47
so, widow down there's a widow down the
58:49
street and she didn't have anyone
58:51
celebrate Easter with. So, like, "Hey
58:52
man,
58:54
Hey yeah, come on hang out with us. Come
58:55
hang out with us.
58:56
>> Sure.
58:57
We're here. We're having food. Just show
58:59
up. Don't bring. Just show up." She did.
59:02
Had a great time.
59:03
>> That's right.
59:04
That's a win. Great win. That's a win.
59:07
You know, that it's it's the little wins
59:09
that add up to make something big. I
59:10
love the idea with your kids, right? I
59:12
mean, I I was at
59:14
where I'm Menards and I'm walking out. I
59:16
see my kid sprinting in front of me.
59:18
And as they go open the door for
59:20
somebody coming out.
59:21
>> Right on. Yeah. And And I look back and
59:24
I'm like, he's seen me do that. Right?
59:26
He's seen me run to go say, "Can I load
59:28
that salt in your car?" Somebody's
59:30
trying to get it out, right? Or can I
59:31
put this in there?
59:33
As we seen you do that over the years.
59:34
So, I'm like, "Yeah, that's right." That
59:35
that's that little thing right there,
59:37
cuz he's done some other bonehead things
59:39
cuz he's 16, but he did that that day
59:41
you great. So, I know in there is kind
59:44
of what I'm thinking. And so, I love the
59:46
idea of doing the small stuff and then
59:47
volunteering and helping and
59:49
you know, being outdoors, like I said,
59:51
cook I clean it up at the church. And
59:52
so, I like your thoughts on community.
59:55
And actually, if you think through
59:57
you know, before we get to like what's
59:59
fun, so outside of work and all that
1:00:01
stuff. You go back and look through your
1:00:02
story.
1:00:04
It's an interesting journey to
1:00:05
entrepreneurship,
1:00:07
right? A lot of lessons learned and a
1:00:10
lot of different ways. Right? That's
1:00:11
That I think this is what you're
1:00:13
learning. Oh my gosh. If I was going to
1:00:14
pick out one thing, that's what I'd pick
1:00:16
out. You were learning in high school
1:00:18
while you're doing um construction, you
1:00:20
learned in college. You learned what
1:00:22
maybe you liked and didn't like. You
1:00:24
learned that you could potentially do
1:00:26
this on your own at one particular job
1:00:28
when you figure out what they were
1:00:29
charging what you're making and all that
1:00:30
stuff.
1:00:31
And then you get into working at
1:00:32
McDonald's and you you think about
1:00:34
different things and you know, somebody
1:00:36
said I can get to 2% better sales by
1:00:38
just placing a window clean somewhere.
1:00:41
Well, by gosh, I'm going to stick that
1:00:42
thing there and do it to the thing. It's
1:00:44
2% a lot of money. Yep. And so, you the
1:00:46
journey and then and then throwing your
1:00:48
hat in the ring, creating a business,
1:00:50
going together, having nothing, selling
1:00:52
the business, right? Coming back out,
1:00:54
starting a new business, still with
1:00:56
nothing. 20 years later, here you are
1:00:59
supporting the community, raising good
1:01:00
kids, having fun.
1:01:02
So, outside of work and work at the
1:01:05
basement, what do you do for fun? Oh,
1:01:06
that's you know, that's one of my
1:01:07
biggest challenges. It always has been.
1:01:10
Um
1:01:11
And I think a lot of people that have
1:01:13
had this path in life probably have that
1:01:15
challenge where it's like at some point
1:01:17
you you almost
1:01:18
say you forget that you
1:01:20
You got to remember to take time to do
1:01:22
some things that you enjoy. A lot
1:01:25
[clears throat] of work. Yeah, a lot of
1:01:26
work.
1:01:27
So,
1:01:29
some are better than others. I'm I'm in
1:01:32
the others category that I'm not that
1:01:33
good at it, but
1:01:35
I really enjoy spending time with my
1:01:36
family, shocker.
1:01:38
And they still like me, thank goodness.
1:01:40
So, they I guess I think they enjoy
1:01:41
spending time with me. So, when we're
1:01:43
all together, we like to go do things,
1:01:45
right? So,
1:01:48
activities over the years as the kids
1:01:50
were younger,
1:01:52
we live really close to a school that
1:01:53
had like tennis courts and
1:01:56
a running track all these things that
1:01:58
the school uses and when 90% of the time
1:02:01
when no one's on it, we're just there.
1:02:02
Yeah, sure. So, some of my favorite
1:02:04
things to do is just go over and play
1:02:07
with the kids. Like, "Hey, man, let's go
1:02:09
play some tennis." Yeah, they don't they
1:02:11
don't play tennis as a team sport or
1:02:13
anything, but it's just fun recreation,
1:02:15
right?
1:02:16
>> Yeah. Let's go throw the ball. Let's go
1:02:18
kick the soccer ball around the soccer
1:02:20
fields. Let's go, you know, wherever.
1:02:24
So, anything outside of like formalized
1:02:26
family vacations, but it's like just now
1:02:28
you have some time, go recreate with our
1:02:30
family.
1:02:32
Now that they're older, it's like
1:02:34
there's less of that, but
1:02:36
I personally on my own when I get some
1:02:38
alone time, I like to get on my
1:02:39
motorcycle and go for a ride.
1:02:42
I'm much more of a long trip rider than
1:02:44
I am. I don't like riding in town a lot.
1:02:47
It'll just There's too much traffic.
1:02:49
It's just not as enjoyable versus
1:02:51
like I'll be on 31 and just get out of
1:02:54
town, right? And just drive and just go.
1:02:56
Yeah, go through some corn fields, the
1:02:58
actual field, go drive
1:03:00
in corn country, yeah.
1:03:03
You know, but the best trips that I've
1:03:04
ever taken
1:03:06
are the long ones and so I I went to uh
1:03:12
Virginia, South Carolina. Those were two
1:03:14
different trips. Those were good long
1:03:16
trips.
1:03:18
I've gone south uh to Tennessee. I've
1:03:22
gone
1:03:23
You know, there's nothing like riding
1:03:24
through a rainstorm in the Smoky
1:03:26
Mountains.
1:03:27
Uh when it's foggy and
1:03:30
there's semi trucks and all that kind of
1:03:33
stuff. Um
1:03:35
That's an interesting experience and you
1:03:38
really got to stay locked in, man.
1:03:39
There's no you know, people like I like
1:03:41
to get on my bike and just
1:03:43
you know, not think about anything.
1:03:45
Yeah, I don't think so. Not then.
1:03:48
I don't even like the Smoky Mountain
1:03:49
rain and fog and
1:03:50
>> My car you're locked in, man. Yeah, I
1:03:53
got four wheels. Well, they're all-wheel
1:03:55
drive.
1:03:55
>> Right, you can go in there. Coolest ride
1:03:57
ever so far. I'm not done yet. Coolest
1:03:59
ride ever is probably going through the
1:04:00
Appalachian Mountains
1:04:02
on the way to Virginia from
1:04:05
Indianapolis. Uh
1:04:07
rode the whole way there, but I took
1:04:08
backroads the whole way. So, when you go
1:04:10
through the Appalachian Mountains the
1:04:12
back way,
1:04:13
you're just, you know, winding up and
1:04:15
down around trip. And you find like I I
1:04:18
don't do a lot of research on the actual
1:04:19
area. I do a research on the
1:04:22
the path or the the directions or
1:04:25
whatever, but I don't do a lot on like
1:04:27
what I'm going to run into. I mean,
1:04:28
that's part of the adventure. Sure, I
1:04:30
didn't know like there's national
1:04:32
forests in in Appalachian Mountains.
1:04:36
And I'm riding through, but in those
1:04:38
forests are logging towns.
1:04:41
I had no idea. No kidding. And I had and
1:04:43
I said, "How are they allowed to do
1:04:45
that? It's a national forest." Well,
1:04:46
they predated
1:04:48
They predated the national forest the
1:04:50
the designation of it being a national
1:04:52
forest.
1:04:53
And so,
1:04:55
these towns are old and they're still
1:04:58
functional and
1:05:00
uh
1:05:01
let's just say I didn't want to stop.
1:05:04
Like it was just solely interesting. No,
1:05:06
I wasn't going to stop and walk through
1:05:08
my say town. I mean, yeah, I'm very
1:05:10
Yeah, very generous. Yeah, yeah.
1:05:13
And so I got like behind a logging truck
1:05:15
going up one of these plate one of these
1:05:16
mountains and it's like the roads are
1:05:18
banked
1:05:21
at certain points because you know, you
1:05:23
go over the edge, man.
1:05:24
>> You're not coming back.
1:05:25
>> You know, you're right. Yeah, you're
1:05:26
done for. You're gone. Yeah. And you
1:05:28
can't like I'm not that good where I can
1:05:29
like zoom around like and then this
1:05:31
truck's going and it's going super slow.
1:05:33
Mhm. So I have to try and manage and you
1:05:35
can't go too slow cuz it's banked.
1:05:37
Oh, yeah. You'll fall out.
1:05:39
>> You're all over.
1:05:40
So I'm just like
1:05:42
there's this thing on the clutch like I
1:05:44
don't know if you've ridden motorcycles
1:05:45
but where you regulate the clutch is
1:05:47
called friction zone.
1:05:48
>> Mhm. So I'm just like for like 20
1:05:52
minutes, man. By the time I was done I
1:05:53
was like You had that hand exercise.
1:05:56
>> Yeah, I was like, okay, I'm ready to
1:05:57
take a break. This is this is nuts. But
1:05:59
it was super fun and exciting and
1:06:03
interesting and you get to see stuff you
1:06:05
see things you never ever ever I would
1:06:06
never see that otherwise. Of course,
1:06:08
yeah, otherwise I'd never see it. It's a
1:06:10
big country, man. It's a lot to see.
1:06:11
Yeah, get out and see it. Love it.
1:06:13
>> Yeah. Jacob, thank you. Thank for
1:06:14
sharing your story with
1:06:15
>> Appreciate it. Appreciate it. You're a
1:06:16
hell of a man.