Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / DIY Sex Education for Gay Men

Transcript

DIY Sex Education for Gay Men · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host today. My name is Michael DiIorio and joining me is Patrick Moreno. Patrick is an award winning adult entertainer, podcast host, and YouTube content creator. He focuses on sex positive environments, breaking down taboos, and empowering folks to drop shame and guilt and step proudly into their sexuality. Patrick, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 0:42
  Speaker B: Michael, thank you. I feel honored to finally have been invited onto Gay Men Going Deeper. What took so long?
• 0:49
  Speaker A: I know it's been a while. For those of you who don't know, I was on Patrick's podcast. Maybe last year, was it.
• 0:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. So clearly us. Yeah.
• 0:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. So we are flip flopping today. Yes, today's topic is all about sex education, but we're not tackling this in the traditional sense. Instead, we'll be talking about the sex education that gay men never got. Diy, sex ed, from porn to trial and error, and everything else that has contributed to our education. How we figured things out on our own, the impact of censorship and misinformation, and how to take control over your own sex education. Ultimately, what we want this episode to do is help our listeners and viewers break free from sexual shame and misinformation so that you could feel more confident and empowered in your sex life. If you are new here, if this is the first episode that you have stumbled upon, please subscribe to the channel. If you're watching us on YouTube or if you're listening to us on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review while you're at it, which helps us to get into the ears of the people who need us. All right, so let's talk a little bit about why before we jump in. I want to give the viewers and listeners a little bit of information about why this episode is important to me and why I chose this as my topic. I am a strong advocate for real sex education, not just that watered down, heteronormative stuff that we learned in school that is often censored and riddled with judgment and stigma. The topic of sex education is more important than ever because a lot of people are getting their information online in social media. And these days, misinformation and censorship are making it harder and harder to find accurate, shame free resources. So, yes, if you are like a lot of us getting your information and content from social media, you have to be very careful with these platforms. Because they are increasingly biased and controlled by organizations that benefit from misinformation. And the algorithms that they control ultimately control what you see and don't see. I firmly believe that knowledge is power. And when we have the right information, we feel more confident in our sexuality. We make better, safer, more informed choices, and therefore get to experience more pleasure and deeper connection, which is ultimately what we want. If not right now, something that I think I get into a little bit of hot water with is that I also, and Patrick as well, will be talking about. This is, you know, we like to talk about topics that might be considered taboo or even, in some cases, illegal things like poppers or fetish and kink play or party and play or cruising and bath houses and whatnot. And so people will say to me, well, if you're talking about it, you're advocating for it. And I vehemently disagree with this discussion does not equal endorsement. I want to put that out there from the beginning, okay? Just because I'm talking about something does not mean I endorse it. It's really about giving people the knowledge to make informed choices. Because silence is the breeding ground for misinformation. And censoring these topics does not make them go away. It just means people are going to do them anyway, but do them without any guidance or accurate information. And that is, my friends, where the real harm happens, both physically to your body and emotionally to your mind and soul. Okay? So the only way to move past shame and stigma is to break the silence and talk openly about it without judgment, which is exactly what Patrick is doing here with me today. So let's go. Let's do this. Patrick, since it is your first time on the show, tell the viewers and listeners a little bit about yourself and why this topic resonates with you personally.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: Well, there's so many things that you just said that I agree with and that resonate with me and probably with a lot of your listeners. I never set out to be, like, a sex educator. Like, that was never my, you know, when I started out with my sexuality and coming to, I don't want to say terms with it, but coming to the realization of, you know, who I was and what that sexuality was, because, you know, back then, we didn't talk about being gay. There was not a lot of gay on tv or if it was, it was just like the silly gay sidekick and not to be taken seriously and stuff. So I never set out to be an educator in any form or fashion. It's just I have had no other choice in my life. But to do this, because this is who I am and I'm just following. My inner compass has always pointed me in the direction of sex, positivity and sex work in some form or fashion, not in the traditional. People just think, you know, somebody who has an exchange of money for sex. But sex work can take many, many different forms. And I've always been connected to it somehow. It's only when YouTube came around and I started creating YouTube content that I started to realize that I was. All of my years of being in the industry in some form or fashion, like I said, I've been sharing that information online on YouTube. And I realized from the feedback that I'm an educator now and that I'm sharing my knowledge, experience in an open forum with people. And also, I don't know everything, so I'm still learning. And I, you know, I. Yeah, I hear from other people and we all add that to the mix. But that's what it's. It's an open dialogue where, like you said, you're sharing information because silence is our enemy.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: Agreed. Yeah. Excellent.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:07
  Speaker A: And Patrick, tell us a little bit about your. Your formal sex education. What did you learn from the ways that we should have learned sex?
• 6:15
  Speaker B: Nothing. I learned nothing. My parents gave me a book and it was like, it wasn't even like real pictures, it was drawings. And it was just like different stages of growing up, but like men and women. And then I think it was just about babies in the end. So it was just about this goes in here and then this happens, which I didn't resonate with at all. I mean, I would stare at the. I mean, I was a pre pubescent, so I would stare at the adolescent drawing of the man and just be like, you know, so nothing, Nothing there. I grew up in, you know, in the 80s and 90s where it was just like we would be sitting around watching TV and like a movie would come on with a sex scene and I could feel the tension in the room because you're sitting there with your parents, it's uncomfortable. Right. But it's uncomfortable because nobody talks about it. There's always this, like, veil of sort of shame or, oh, no, you can't talk about it. Well, fast forward to school. And that wasn't any better. Like, I don't even remember paying attention because it was all just straight stuff.
• 7:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Speaker B: Like, I wasn't being represented in what they were speaking about at all because they were just talking about what a man and a woman does. So I just turned off Completely. I didn't hear it all. I think for me, the first, you know, real education was porn. It was just porn. It was online and it was porn. And I was watching men have sex. It's not the worst thing because the mechanics are kind of the same. Like, I'm seeing men do what I want to do. But, you know, porn comes with a lot of baggage as well, because it's fantasy. So all of these people that take it for face value sometimes bring that into real life and it's just, you can't do that. So it's not the worst place to learn a little bit about what happens, but you really got to take it with a grain of salt, you know?
• 7:59
  Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. And how did that impact your coming out? Like your, your sex education that you got from, or lack thereof, from school and family? Like, how did that impact you when you were coming out as a gay, bi or queer person?
• 8:11
  Speaker B: I honestly, I put it in my mind, like I sort of compartmentalized my gayness and was like, I'm not going to come out or act on this until I feel I'm surrounded by. In a safe environments. And that didn't happen until university.
• 8:27
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 8:28
  Speaker B: Because that's when I was surrounded by people, like minded people that are, you know, more open minded and everybody's experimenting and stuff like that. So that's when it just exploded. But before that, in high school and I didn't feel I was in the closet. Yeah. I just felt like I'm gonna wait. I'm just gonna wait for my right moment because it's just gonna cause me more problems.
• 8:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Speaker B: Which is a shame. Which is a shame. I. Who knows what could have happened? I could have at least, you know, I think a lot of people from my generation too. I'm making myself sound so old is that we didn't come out until a little bit later. And so there's a bit of this Peter Pan syndrome where it's like gay men are acting like adolescents later in life, but they never had the chance to act like an adolescent when they were one and have those, you know, interactions and relationships and things. In my day.
• 9:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people would resonate with that. I certainly do personally. So then let's talk about where we actually learned about sex. You talked about porn. What are some of the other real educators in your life?
• 9:25
  Speaker B: Gosh, I think it was just porn and then just going out and doing it.
• 9:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker B: For real? Yeah, I think it was. It's just learning on the job.
• 9:33
  Speaker A: On the job.
• 9:34
  Speaker B: Learning on the blowjob. Like, I just. You just learn as you do it. And it's just. Which unfortunately leads to some mistakes, some regrets, and some. You get into situations that you didn't need to be in or. Or feeling that you need to maybe do something that you don't need to do. Hopefully you're a quick study is all I can say.
• 9:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think for. I mean, myself as well as trial and error. So, I mean, I learned about sex from my sexual partners. Like, I learned how to bottom from the top. Who was stopping me? Like, yeah, he helped me out. He's like, this is what you gotta do. I didn't have a book. I didn't have a channel. I didn't have you. I didn't have anything to kind of go by. So I think for a lot. A lot of guys. And that could be guys of our generation, older generations and even younger.
• 10:17
  Speaker B: Right.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: Depending on where you live and what you're exposed to, where you live, you might not have that. So for me, porn wasn't a huge one. But tell us more about that, because I know that that's something that you are very well versed in.
• 10:28
  Speaker B: Yes, of course. So that's actually how my mom discovered I was gay because I didn't know how to clear my browser. So that happened. And she was just. It was actually a great way for me to come out because she saw the porn, I guess, one day I didn't know, and then she just asked me, like, are you gay? And I was like, okay, all I have to do is say yes. This is like, yeah, the work is done for me. This is great. So I did, and it was fine. But definitely I learned from there. But then that struck in me, the desire to also go out and do that as a, you know, a job, as a profession, I guess. Yeah. I just got really intrigued. I was always an actor. I was always on stage. I was always very that guy. So to pair that with sex, I was like, okay, porn is a thing. Like, you can go and you film it, and then you have that whole. You get that sort of porn fame, which is great. And then you get to be on camera and doing that. Like, everything about that just, like, came together for me. And I was like, okay, I'm off to la, which is what I did. And then. And then, yeah, that was a crash course in sex education for sure.
• 11:35
  Speaker A: While you were on camera, you would.
• 11:38
  Speaker B: The whole thing, the whole industry. I mean, just like with the directors and the. And your partners and then. And also a crash Course in the sense that, like, when you're having sex on camera versus you're not having sex on camera versus the relationships with the people you have in the industry versus people that are not in the industry. Like, there was just so much came together, crashing together at once that I really feel like it just catapulted me into the realm of, like, I love the psychology of sex. I love that we're all different. Like, we're all approaching it differently. Like, I, I loved being on camera and doing that, and I was very comfortable doing that. A lot of people would never do that. They would be so uncomfortable. And I get it. For me, I was dating somebody in the industry and he was escorting, which for me is not something that. Is something I dabbled in. But I quickly realized it's not my thing, which is fine, but for him it was. And then. But I realized that that was my line. Like, I didn't. It felt weird for me to be like, okay, bye, honey. And then he was gonna go out and do that for me. That's not something that I wanted in my relationship. So it's just all the different levels and ways that you can express yourself sexually. It's just, it's fascinating to me. It's endless.
• 12:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, is very fascinating to me as well. And you know, as the listener, they're listening to this now or viewer, I think of what that psychology is for you, right? Like, you know, Patrick's one person. I, I come from my own. But like, it's really interesting to like, go deeper within yourself and ask, okay, well, what's my relationship with sex? Where does this come from? And, but not judgmental. Not in a judgmental way. In a very curious way. I have a question for you on, on that I always wanted to know, do you have like relationships with these actors, entertainers beforehand, or do you just meet them when it's time to do the do?
• 13:20
  Speaker B: So I had a very particular arrangement. And again, this goes back to the psychology of sex. And like, what works for me doesn't necessarily work for somebody else. I knew that if I was going to do this, I could only do it with people that I already had a pre existing relationship and not. It didn't have to be a deep relationship like best friends or I didn't even have to. Not that I didn't have to like them, but I had to have met them and I had to have felt at least that spark and that like, desire and that, okay, let's do it. Like, I'm into it. And I think this goes back to the escorting. I can't just show up and the door opens, and then I'm expected to perform just with whatever opens the door, whatever shows up on set, whatever. Like. So I had a little clause in my contract that said that I had final approval of my co stars, which. Which was unheard of at the time. And they told me, do not tell anybody else that this. That we're doing this for you. Because this is not something. Because they don't. You know, the studios, they just want to pair people up and go. I mean, they don't want to. Who do you want? Who do you imagine the scheduling nightmare of just like, okay, he likes him, he doesn't like him. It's like a murder board, you know, with the strings. So I don't want to say I was lucky, because I asked for that myself. And if you don't ask, you don't get. But I knew that that was something that was important for me walking onto set. Know who at least that person was.
• 14:47
  Speaker A: Fascinating. Yeah. It's a world that I don't know very much about. So thank you for sharing that.
• 14:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, please. Thanks for having me.
• 14:53
  Speaker A: When you're watching it, I guess it looks very relational. It looks like, you know, very deep. And then.
• 14:57
  Speaker B: Well, that's the thing. I don't want to put out scenes, you know, where it's mechanical, you know, and it's just like, boom, boom, boom. Like, I want. I need to put out a good scene. I need to feel that connection with somebody on some level.
• 15:10
  Speaker A: Were you ever in a situation where you were doing things for the very first sexual things for the very first time on camera?
• 15:15
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:16
  Speaker A: Wow. So your sex education was like, literally, we could all watch it if we wanted to.
• 15:20
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. There was a scene in Bolt, which was one of my early movies, where we did a car wash. Do you know what a car washes?
• 15:28
  Speaker A: No.
• 15:29
  Speaker B: So it's sort of a. It's sort of a kink movie. Bolt was. And so we were all standing on either side, and then there was a guy crawling, and then we were all just pissing. And that's the car wash.
• 15:43
  Speaker A: I get it now.
• 15:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And he's just crawling, and it's just, like, raining down. And I had never participated in water sports before, but there I was. Action. And I was like, okay, here we go. So that's interesting.
• 15:56
  Speaker A: Our sex educations were very, very different.
• 15:58
  Speaker B: Were they? What was yours like?
• 16:00
  Speaker A: Mine was not on camera at all. Right. Similar to what you were saying earlier. That's just not Something that I, even to this day, I don't know if I would really love that so much. But mine was really, like, the trial and error. Like, I would learn, literally, from my partners. Yeah. I don't know why. I just never really watched porn. I guess I did. I don't know. I just didn't learn too much from it. But the mechanics I learned in the, like, on the job. As you said, there's no camera in my job.
• 16:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:25
  Speaker A: And I also learned when I ended up having more gay friends. So a lot of it was learning through other people's stories and learning through, you know, what. What you would learn on, like, the playground in school. I kind of learned in. For me, it was like, on campus with other guys who were gay who were also hooking up. I was like, oh, you can do that. You can put that there. You can do it in this position.
• 16:44
  Speaker B: Oh, and that has a name. What is that called?
• 16:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly what you just taught me now. And a lot of other things, too, like, really important things that I wish I would have had an education on. Things like lube and douching and positions and what positions may hurt, which ones might not hurt, and dealing with STIs and sexual. Like, there's so much that I didn't get a formal education on, but I learned through others, which is great. But not all of that information was necessarily accurate, Right.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: Yeah. So on my podcast, Queerly Us, that's where I really cover more of the, like, the advances in sexual health and stuff like that, because I sit down with more experts, people who know a lot more about me, who work in the field of sexual health. And they were talking about prep and, you know, the shots that you can have now and blah, blah, blah, all of the advancement, U equals you. And everything which people are still, you know, don't know about, which is baffling to me. But I guess it's true. Like, the education is just not there. And if you're not watching my channel or you're listening to your podcast or, you know what I mean, Then there aren't that many avenues for people to learn these things. So you don't know that U equals you, which is huge as somebody who's HIV positive, I mean, the weight that. That lifts off of my shoulders for myself, but also for everyone else, in the eyes of everyone else, where it's like, I am not a threat to anybody, is, like, life changing. So, you know, it's important to get all this information out for sure.
• 18:14
  Speaker A: And it's shocking how many People don't know that, but also what I've learned from doing this podcast and working with guys, you know, all over the world is it really is dependent on where you live in your geography. So, Patrick, you know, you live in an. You live where I do, an urban center here, but there are a lot of guys out there who just don't have access to information or the media, which is why I was saying about things like algorithms, it's really important. Where you're getting your information will really dictate how. How much you get and what you get and how accurate it is. So there are a lot of guys out there, even today in 2025, who just don't have access to things that we might find very obvious or very relevant or very out there.
• 18:52
  Speaker B: I mean, thank God for the Internet. At least they can go online and find information. I can, like before the Internet, like when. If you're in a small town in Northern Ontario or something, I mean, you're just not going to have access to any information, let alone resources or anything. So. But you're right, we do live in a bubble. I mean, Toronto is a. Is a. Is a bubble of, you know, we're lucky to be here.
• 19:14
  Speaker A: And what about. Let's talk about some misinformation. So you learned through the, you know, the. The hard way. What should we call it? The.
• 19:20
  Speaker B: The. On the job.
• 19:21
  Speaker A: On the job, yes. What did you have to unlearn? Or was there any misinformation in that space that you had to unlearn?
• 19:28
  Speaker B: I think the rigidity of positions or preferences in bed, you know, in porn, or at least historically, it's been very like, I'm the top, I'm the bottom. You know, it's been very sort of rigid that way. I'm a little bit more fluid anyway, so I kind of already knew that. But it was nice to. It's. Especially today. I mean, there's so. I mean, sides and just like. So now it's just exploded and it just like every preference, everything has a name and a. And a spotlight and. And that's great. You know, it's not just a top and a bottom. And the worst part about the tops and bottom thing was that the bottom was like the feminine one or the smaller one or the weaker one, and the top was the aggressive one and so boring. Like, you know, all of that has unraveled and hopefully nobody believes that anymore. But, you know, that was something that was annoying.
• 20:17
  Speaker A: Totally.
• 20:17
  Speaker B: And not true. Yeah.
• 20:19
  Speaker A: When did your YouTube channel come from? Like, was it in that period or after that?
• 20:25
  Speaker B: Oh, that's a good question. No, YouTube came after. Yeah.
• 20:28
  Speaker A: Okay, tell us a little bit about that for people who don't know what your YouTube channel is about.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, so I started it during COVID because I had wanted to for a long time, but just nervous, didn't have time, had other things going. I mean, it's a time consuming, as you know, especially when you're learning everything yourself. But yeah, I just, it's something that I had wanted to do. So I started it and it quickly took a turn from where, where it started when, you know, the bathhouses were closed and I'm a bathhouse enthusiast, I like to go. And they were still closed during COVID and, you know, nobody knew. And rightly so, they should be closed. I mean, we didn't know and people were, you know, masks and all of this. So I did a video on like, you know, where are the bathhouses? You know, are they coming back? It was near the end of COVID Things are opening up, but the bath houses weren' and it felt a little bit like the bath houses were being penalized, you know, just for being the spaces that they are. You know, there was no sort of need for them to still be closed. So I was like, why are they still closed? Is there a good reason for them to, like, other things are open?
• 21:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker B: And that video did really well and I thought about that and I enjoyed doing it and I was like, okay, maybe people want to hear about this. So then I continued down the bathhouse, you know, give them what they want. Which. And it's a topic that completely resonates that I love. So, yeah, that's how it kind of turned and then it turned into cruising. So it's bath houses and cruising. And now I just opened a sex club myself in Toronto. What With a team called Anvil here in Toronto. So now I'm talking about Anvil. And so there was like bath houses, sex clubs. The sex club doesn't have like showers and stuff. It's more cruisy. You keep your clothes on, there's cubicles and there's going to be an outdoor space in the summer that's coming, which is really fun. Yeah, so those are, those are my topics of that. I really love to delve into that people. It seems to resonate with people and they want to hear about it, so.
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Agreed. I find the same thing when I've done certain posts on that or when I've done a specific podcast on bathhouses and cruising. I get so many questions people emailing me, DMing me, like, oh, what about this? What about that? Like, it's just shrouded in mystery. So what I love to do is unshroud it. Yeah, right. Like, ask me anything shrouded. Like, let me know your questions and I'll answer them. Like, there's nothing to be ashamed of, first of all. And, yeah, like, what I like to do is say, ask me your questions. And if what I'm saying sounds like something you want to go try, go try it. If not, don't. But like, yeah, better than not knowing, right?
• 22:51
  Speaker B: Or go and don't like it and that's okay.
• 22:54
  Speaker A: Right?
• 22:55
  Speaker B: I mean, at least, you know. You know. Yeah, I love. Yeah, I love peeling back that curtain because people are just. You're scared of what you don't know, especially in these places because they're so. They've been so stigmatized in the past with the bathhouse raids and everything is just so people really have sort of a negative commentary. I get comments from people saying that my channel is putting back the gay movement. Like, I'm taking us backwards because I'm advocating for sex and sex positivity and all of that stuff, which is. It's hard to respond to those people because they're not going to hear anything you say anyway. But I'm in a safe space here and I know. You know, exactly. You don't agree with that kind of ridiculousness, but nonsense, nonsensical. But that's what I like. Taking people into the spaces to really show them, which my latest video on YouTube does, with anvil. And we just walk around and I'm like, these are the cubicles, these are the glory holes. This is the cinema. So just to give people, like, look, it's not scary. If it's not for you, don't come though. That's okay, but it's not scary. There's nothing to be afraid of.
• 23:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. And we could apply this to any topic, right? So right now we're talking about bathhouses, but this could be anything. I did an episode with an anal health specialist about anal health and we talked a lot about douching and different types of lube. And again, he, you know, as a doctor just came in, like, here's what you need to know, right? Here's. Here's what to do, here's what not to do. Like, just getting information, just objective information from experts or people who know just really helps take the stigma away and the shame away. And that's the education that gay men deserve. But do not get enough of. So, you know, Patrick, on behalf of the gay community everywhere, thank you for your channel. It's great.
• 24:32
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. Well, I'm just one of a few. I mean, do you know Bottom's Digest? And you. Oh, my God. You have to. He's so good. He's out of Chicago, and he's just. He was on my podcast, too, and his whole thing is bottoming, so it's. But it's like eating for gut health also, so it's all related, you know, and he talks about douching and fibers and. And he just. His whole thing is very. He's a good person to Bottoms digest.
• 24:58
  Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you. Where was all this stuff when I was learning? Right?
• 25:01
  Speaker B: Where was it?
• 25:02
  Speaker A: Where was it?
• 25:03
  Speaker B: It wasn't here. We didn't have it for sure. That's a big one. Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker A: All right, let's go to our audience. For those of you who are listening and watching right now, tell us in the comments, where did you get your sex education and how did that impact you? So let us know if you're watching on YouTube. You can drop it in the comments. If you're watching on or if you're listening to us on the podcast platform, just go ahead and put it in the comments there as well. Okay. Now, if you, listener, viewer, want to take this conversation to the next level and join me with a small group of guys, I invite you to join my sexual empowerment men's group. This is a men's group that I run once a year, every year. It's virtual. It runs seven weeks. We are starting on April 9, and this podcast is being released on March 27. So there's still about a week before we start. And what we do in those seven weeks is similar to what Patrick and I are doing here. We're going to have honest, candid conversations about sex and sexuality. We're going to connect with each other, and in doing so and having these conversations, the shame and the stigma melts away. It normalizes a lot of our challenges. We get to learn from each other's experiences, and it is a safe space to ask questions and get answers. No shame, no judgment, just real guys in real experiences. I cap it at 15 guys because I want it to be a nice, small, intimate space. It's a little bit better that way than having too many. And each week is a different topic. So we cover a lot of things, including sexual shame, body image, porn, masturbation, developing emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy, sexual health, and more. Each week you get a little downloadable workbook which you can bring to the session. So, you know, if you are one of those people who don't have people in your life who you can have these open, honest conversations with where it doesn't turn sexual and it's. Doesn't include shame or judgment, and it doesn't feel like you have to sense yourself, then this is for you. This is not a group where we are sexualizing our experience. We're just talking about sex, which is a different slice of things. Okay. Because it's important to have these conversations without it necessarily having to turn into sex. So the link is in the show notes, and for my beautiful podcast listeners, if you're listening to my voice right now, you have an exclusive 25% off coupon for being a loyal listener to the show. Uh, that coupon code is in the show notes, so go get it. And you will automatically get 25% off the men's group. All right, let's move on.
• 27:24
  Speaker B: That's a lot. 25%.
• 27:26
  Speaker A: Yes. I love my listeners. I love them.
• 27:29
  Speaker B: Yes, I know. Well, you. You'd have to. To continue because it's not, you know, easy all the time.
• 27:35
  Speaker A: It's great. Patrick, you probably get this all the time because you're actually on. On YouTube and so people recognize you. But when people do recognize me and they. They come up and say, like, wonderful things, like, oh, you know, you've helped me with this or that or the thing. It's. It just fills my heart. Like, I absolutely just love it.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: It really is that thing. It sounds cheesy, like, when people say, it's an honor just being nominated, but it's true. If I can just touch one person, if that one person, you know, it helps them, then it's worth it, you know?
• 28:03
  Speaker A: Agreed.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the. We talked about. About the mechanics and whatnot, but what about the, like, emotional lessons and experiences you have? What? You know, sex is ultimately a relational experience. Even if it is a hookup or an anon, it is two humans relating. Even if there's no words exchanged, there's still a lot. It's a relational experience, right? Yes. So what are some of the, you know, more deeper emotional lessons you've learned about your. Yourself?
• 28:27
  Speaker B: You're absolutely right. Even if it's, like, anonymous, and you don't even exchange any words, there's so much energy exchange going on. It's really like a dance. And. And a lot can be said with no words, that's for sure. I think for me, it's been Again, going back to the, like, the psychology of sex, it's been a learning curve because I've always been very. Not monogamous, so. But not cheating. I've just been open about it. So I've always had to be with people where we're on the same page. So in relationships, you know, it's. We come together. Usually we're monogamous for a little while, like six months or a year or something, because we're still. There's that connection and that bond. So it's like new and fresh and we love it. But eventually I know that it's always going to open up. So for me, it's been learning how to not accept that within myself because thankfully, I've always accepted the fact that I'm not going to be a monogamous person in a monogamous relationship with one person for the rest of my life. And I've been okay with that. It's been communicating that with partners and finding ways to. Well, to be honest with myself, to be honest with them and to communicate because. And then I find, and you don't know this until you get into the relationship, that it's not just about at the beginning of the relationship saying, oh, we're going to be open. Because that openness and the relationship is constantly evolving. So you have to constantly keep checking in with each other and communicating and maybe changing the goal posts and stuff. So there's a lot.
• 30:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's the relational aspect of sex and like the just, you know, the two energies coming together. But then there's like the sexual intimacy of like having that emotional plus sexual intimacy with one partner, which is a beautiful thing in and of itself, 100%.
• 30:19
  Speaker B: And that's what. So for me. And again, and everybody's different. One of my must haves in if I'm in a relationship with you is, yeah, we're open. But for me, the emotional monogamy is what I'm looking for. So I'm your number one. Like, I'm your priority emotionally. You know, I just. And I know polyamory, I understand. I totally get it. For me, that's just not an avenue that I'm interested in pursuing. Because for me and my relationship, because it's open physically, for me, the emotional side is that's where I get my. The intimacy. And you know, again, everybody does their own.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess, you know, one of the things that I've talked about on this podcast, I'm curious to get your thoughts on it is, you know, my relationship with sex has Evolved significantly. First it was steeped in shame and judgment. And then I came out and moved to Toronto. And then I swung the barn doors open and just had sex with everyone all at once, as much as I can. And then I got very much just obsessed with it and hooking up and I just did it all the time, constantly was just rush. And I eventually started to realize that I was getting a lot of my validation and sense of self and sense of worth and sense of value from how sexually appealing I was to others. And that's great until it's not. And for me, that hit very hard. That's when I had to really come to terms with, wait a minute. Like, I'm doing this and I'm having fun, but the fun stopped. Like I was just doing it, but not having the fun. That's kind of what put me on my path towards greater, you know, spirituality and self development and self help. Was that kind of low point? And now I have this relationship with sex where, yes, of course it's validating. And of course I love when people find me attractive and it feels great and there's nothing wrong with that. But one of the things I've learned is when I'm seeking sex to fill a void versus when I'm seeking sex just because I want to. And it's fun. What can you say about that in your experience?
• 32:11
  Speaker B: Oof. Well, I think having come from the porn industry, I think it's that, but like a million times magnified because not only are you with the one person, but you also have an entire industry and an entire, you know, fan base, global, that's, you know, sort of validating you and saying, yet you're worthy because you're good looking or because you're having sex. And we like watching it. So I've always been down to earth about that. I've always been. As soon as I got to la, I saw it for what it was, which I think is the key to living in Los Angeles. If you buy into the. The fakeness and everything, then you're gonna have a really hard time because it is super superficial. Super superficial, yeah. Which is fine. That's the industry. But if you can not take it seriously and you see it for what it is, then and that's okay. And I always felt that way about the porn. It's like, people, oh, you're so hot. Or oh, I love watching. You're my favorite. I'm your number one fan. And. Which is fantastic. It's nice to hear. Thank you, thank you. But it's so like, I just feel like it's another. You're talking about somebody else. It's, you know, I can separate the two and I think that that's important. So. Yeah, the porn industry just really magnifies that sort of thing. So you really have to. A lot of porn stars struggle with that, you know, because it's, it's difficult. You get all this validation. But then like you said, something happens and then you don't or you age out of it, which is, that's a tricky one for a lot of people who have maybe lived their lives, you know, in the spotlight or, you know, they've just been good looking and very popular. So they've always been the desired one at the parties and the whatever. But they're aging now and so they're aging out of that and that can be hard for a lot of people.
• 33:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think if your entire sense of self has come from that one thing, that one piece of your identity, it's the wake up point to like, oh, wait a minute, I need to develop other parts of myself that are not that because you are so 100 worthy as a human. But if you've all put all your eggs in that one basket, honey.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Speaker A: That's a dangerous game. Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. So beautiful getting older. Like, I feel so much more at ease with who I am. I just feel calmer. I'm more confident. Like, I just love getting older. I know it's a trade off. Your, you know, your knees hurt or you know, whatever. The gray, you don't like the gray hair, you don't like the gray hairs and whatever. But you know what I mean, it's like the trade off is beautiful for me. I, I like it.
• 34:37
  Speaker A: Let's talk about what, what you're, if you care to share with us the current learning you're having. So education. We never like really get to like our guru expert level. Right. So we're always learning new things in with respect to our sex and sexuality. What is something that you're currently learning these days?
• 34:53
  Speaker B: I think honestly, being now that I'm a business owner with the sex club having my channel, I've been invited down to the North American Bathhouse association conference which happens annually in the US And I've gone a couple of times now as a guest speaker, which has been great and I've met lots of folks. One of the big topics that they are, they're not struggling with. It was new on the table. It's not so new now, but they're still trying to Find ways to implement this into their spaces. Are including our trans friends. Right. This is not something that those types of spaces have had to not deal with, but face. Maybe in the past, but now it's. It's something. We have a trans woman cherry bomb who runs Club Pittsburgh, and she has been so. Her perspective on the whole thing has been so eye opening. I don't have a lot of experience personally with the trans community. I have gone to trans marches, protests, and things because I. I support the community, I love the community and. But it's important to have their voices heard. It's not me speaking for them because I can't speak from somebody else's experience. So I feel for me, that's sort of been a frontier or the next level thing that I'm taking on now, where it's working with trans folks and how they work in the spaces like bath houses and sex clubs and stuff like that.
• 36:19
  Speaker A: So it's a very important conversation. Yeah.
• 36:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker A: That's awesome. And, Patrick, I'm looking forward to coming to Anvil sometime soon.
• 36:25
  Speaker B: Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, please do. Especially in the summer. We're gonna have that outdoor space. You can have sex outside, like, amazing. Under the stars. Yeah. Please come.
• 36:37
  Speaker A: Okay. I want to talk a little bit about your role as a content creator. Right. So most of your content is on YouTube. That's correct, yes.
• 36:45
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 36:46
  Speaker A: Okay, so how do you think censorship and misinformation is impacting sex education for queer people, specifically gay men these days?
• 36:56
  Speaker B: You know, it's not easy. YouTube is not bad, but it's not. You got to be careful what you're posting on there. Which is unfortunate because I got a comment recently where somebody said, you are the most wholesome porn star slash sex educator that I know of. And I took that as. As a compliment. I'm delivering information and giving information in a way that's not, you know, overly raunchy. Just to be like, sexual and raunchy for no reason. You know what I mean? And which I think helps on YouTube because I'm able to deliver the message in a way that YouTube doesn't mind. However, I have received a strike in the past, you know, and it's just. It just really hits you hard when YouTube slaps you with something like that. Because my intention is never to be salacious for salaciousness. So it's always very well thought out content. And then. So for me to be. And I'm not the only one. This happens all the time. I know on Instagram, accounts are taken down all the Time. Well, right. Yours was really.
• 38:02
  Speaker A: Oh, I've got. I've had to not. I had to stop. I've been silenced by Instagram for anything about sex. I think Instagram and meta is far, far worse than YouTube because on YouTube we have these conversations and nothing really happens. We just have to kind of flag it accordingly. And they're fine.
• 38:18
  Speaker B: Right.
• 38:18
  Speaker A: But on Instagram, like, they'll take anything where I've used the word sex or even the word hookup and like, nope.
• 38:24
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 38:25
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker B: So, yeah, I'm mostly on YouTube, so. I know. Yeah, you're right in the back end. As long as you're sort of like, okay, there's some adult content just to, you know, make sure that they're aware that you're aware. And, you know, maybe censoring some words like, I don't write out sex in the title of my thumbnail. You know, those barriers don't help.
• 38:46
  Speaker A: Right.
• 38:47
  Speaker B: And it's not sad that. But, you know, it's too bad that like, the only spaces where you can really go nuts are like X or blue sky or platforms like that, you know, because. Because then it goes. Then it can go fully in the porn direction.
• 39:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker B: You know, so it's not education anymore. Now it's just like hardcore porn. So we need the. The middle ground.
• 39:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly right. But it's up to us out there to find that. Right. I think there are. What I'm hoping people are getting out of this is that they're going to find you. And there's a lot of other Patrick's out there who do things on different topics, maybe different levels of expertise, different things. But yeah, there are so many accounts out there and it's, you know, that's the great thing about the Internet and social media. But also one of the things we have to be very careful of is like, there's a lot of options out there, but we also can't trust everything we know and see.
• 39:37
  Speaker B: That's true. Yeah. Especially these days.
• 39:40
  Speaker A: Right. So, Patrick, before we wrap up, what advice would you give to someone who is just starting to navigate their sexuality, regardless of their age?
• 39:50
  Speaker B: I would say be honest with yourself. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to experiment. But also I would say be open and honest with the people around you and the people that you are coming into contact with sexually. Don't be afraid to ask for what you want. I think something that I would change from my past was I was doing a lot of sex and stuff, but maybe it wasn't always What I wanted to do, I would just like, take somebody else's lead. And also I kept my sex positivity and my sexual activity, like the porn and everything very contained to very specific groups of people so that it didn't like infiltrate, say, my family or other like, high school friends who don't know the full story. You know what I mean? And so, which creates a bit of shame there because it's like, if you're not sharing your full self with people, then obviously you think that they're not going to accept you. Well, why aren't they accepting you? So it creates this kind of shame and guilt and stuff. So that, that's something that I have lifted. Like, everybody knows everything now. So that's. There's. Everything is out in the open. There are new secrets and I feel so free. And that's the only thing I would say to anybody. It was not that everybody out there is going to become a porn star. I'm just saying, you know, in terms of your, your sexuality, let it fly, you know?
• 41:11
  Speaker A: Do you advocate for the trial and error method?
• 41:15
  Speaker B: I mean, yeah. How else are you gonna know?
• 41:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:18
  Speaker B: You know, yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker A: Looking back though, I think that I could have really gotten myself into some not great situations. I, I wasn't always the most responsible, maybe not always the most safe, and maybe I took some risks that could have very easily gone the wrong way. And I only see that now looking back. So I might have a great guardian angel out there. Just be very lucky. And that's the only thing, like, you know, yes, learn through trial and error. But I know calculated risks. Like, that's what I'm hoping that things like education will help you, like having this education, having this information, so that when you do do that trial and error, at least you have a little bit more information. Right.
• 41:53
  Speaker B: I think that's exactly what it is. It's when the information is not there, nobody's talking about it. Everything is in the shadows and secret people are taking more risks.
• 42:00
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 42:00
  Speaker B: So the more that we're talking about, the more that you have more information at your fingertips, you're going to feel more confident and like you said, calculated.
• 42:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And how can we support each other? How can gay, bi, queer men support each other from moving from sexual shame and secrecy to just feeling more liberated and open about this topic?
• 42:18
  Speaker B: By going to your workshop, of course. Yeah, by going to your workshop. I mean, that's not a joke, that's real. I mean, for supporting creators like us, because what we do is a lot of work it's not. It's not always easy to do. It doesn't always pay the most depending on what platform and what you're doing and stuff. So the support of, you know, liking, subscribing, commenting, sharing helps to spread the love, you know.
• 42:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. And sharing resources as well. So you know, the way you did with that other podcast, Autumn's Digest, check out YouTube channel. Let's share some resources. Let's get them going. So again, a shout out to our viewers and listeners out there. If you have a great educational creator or resource, even a book, anything, podcast, put it in the show notes or put in the chat. Rather not the chat. What's it called? The comments. The comment section.
• 43:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:09
  Speaker A: And yeah, let us know.
• 43:11
  Speaker B: You know, on a side note, because you just said books, I am starting a queer collection of books. Like I'm building a queer library of books. It's hit or miss. Some are like, eh, they don't resonate, but some are fantastic. And I just find reading stories about people like me is so affirming and the representation is so important and I'm just loving it. So if you need any like, queer book suggestions, let me know.
• 43:33
  Speaker A: One of the things I love about the men's group that I run, the sexual empowerment men's group, is we got a lot of people from all different backgrounds, all different places, and is so wonderful. And I think the most beautiful thing when someone who is like 75 and someone who's like 25 are having a similar challenge or have had the same experience or similar internal experience and they can support each other through it, or you would think that these people would have nothing in common. And then just by sharing their story and saying, oh yeah, I feel that way too. I've had that happen to me as well. Like, it's just that normalizing aspect just makes you feel so much less isolated, so much less alone. The shame melts away. And like, you realize we're not as different as maybe we think we are.
• 44:16
  Speaker B: And I love reaching across generations. Yes, like that. I mean, just the obsession with youth is just. I don't get it. You know, obviously I love young people. I love young people. Like, you know, it's just my channel is like. Like half of my channel is 50 plus. And I love that. Pave the way. That's right, the way.
• 44:38
  Speaker A: All right, Patrick, where can people find you? Tell us where they can reach you.
• 44:42
  Speaker B: Well, I'm on Instagram, Patrick Morano. But that's mostly. I mean, I use it for personal reasons. I don't Use it for a lot of. But if you're interested in me, if you want to follow my life, then you can follow me there. But absolutely. My YouTube channel, Patrick Morano, Just my name is where I spend most of my time. So, yeah, beautiful. And then of course, from there, oh, you can go to my website, too. Patrickmireno.com and then you can sign up for my newsletter. I have lots of discounts on fun stuff. The newsletter is absolutely free. And then I share updates and, you know, things that are happening in my life. And then there's other ways to support there, like OnlyFans, JustForFans. All of that is on my website. So beautiful.
• 45:21
  Speaker A: I'm going to link all that in the show notes. So for our viewers and listeners, don't worry, go to the show notes there. And then for those of you who want to join the sexual empowerment men's group conversation with me and other guys, 15 other guys, please do sign up. Starting April 9th, seven weeks. We meet on Wednesdays. Info is in the show notes. You can get more info there. And don't forget, you guys, as listeners, get that special 25% off coupon code. I'd love to see you there. All right, thank you. Patrick, any final words?
• 45:50
  Speaker B: I have said a lot of words. I will just say thank you so much for having me on and yeah, I look forward to working more with you.
• 45:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's gonna be great. And it's a pleasure. Yeah. And Patrick is also located in Toronto for those of you. I don't know if we mentioned that. So we've actually met in person before, which is so nice.
• 46:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we should again. What's stopping us?
• 46:09
  Speaker A: I know, right? Well, I'm going to Mexico in a couple weeks, but then after that and.
• 46:12
  Speaker B: I'm going to Japan, actually.
• 46:13
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, there you go. We just.
• 46:15
  Speaker B: This was enough after that.
• 46:18
  Speaker A: All right, listeners and viewers, thank you so, so much for sticking with us on this episode. Reminder, guys. This podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we're creating here, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. Or if you're watching us on YouTube, just go ahead and click on that thanks button and that'll send us all the love. You could also subscribe to the early access option if you're listening to us on Apple and listen ad free and get early access to episodes about three weeks before they are released wide. All of your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community so we thank you so, so much in advance. And for those of you who are in the game as Brotherhood and want to join us at our next event, we have events every Thursday, so go to www.gaiminsbrotherhood.com to check those out. All right, guys, thank you so much. We'll see you later.