Latest / The Bold Lounge / Bonus Episode: Patty Hayward: Bold Ideas Transforming Care through Tech

Transcript

Bonus Episode: Patty Hayward: Bold Ideas Transforming Care through Tech · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: This is Leigh Burgess, your host.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Hi, this is Patti Hayward.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I'm the general manager of healthcare and life sciences at TalkDesk.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Awesome, so we're going to jump right into being bold.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: What does being bold mean to you?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I think being bold to me means thinking differently.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And how can we take advantage of things that need to be done and to push a little bit harder than what we typically see with incremental change out there?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So how can we really move the puck in a very meaningful way?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you think about thinking differently in your career, what's a moment that you've had that really aligns with that definition and being?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: bold yeah, you know I think funny enough.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Coming to TalkDesk you know this was.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: This is a contact center company.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: So when I was approached to come and look at you know, help talk desk, really look at healthcare, it was one of those moments I was like call center, like what?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And then I really started to think about the need for change in how we deal with patients and look at them in a very different way.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can think about the better experiences you have with calling your airline than with calling your physician, who knows so much more about you.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And so to me it was really about how do I take a big leap and move from sort of healthcare-based companies like McKesson and Aetna that I'd worked for in the past and really go into the tech sector and look at how can we help them not just crash on the shores of healthcare which is, I think, what you typically see with a lot of tech companies and being able to really look at what should a patient experience look like as someone's calling in and how are we changing that in a meaningful way, so that we're not just putting all of the information into the patient's hand, expecting them to do everything.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So that was a big, big change yeah.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And that was a bold move.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So you kind of went from a space that's very well known, it's very defined, and you came to a space that might not be the highest level of innovation all the time, right or known for that particularly so.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: What was the hardest thing when you actually pivoted from such a known entity to a space that was newer for you?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Obviously there's optimal moments.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: It was like, okay, my fingerprints on it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: But what was one of the challenges and maybe a surprise you had?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So I think that one of the big surprises.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I'll start with the surprise, because I had always worked for big companies McKesson, aetna.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I'd worked for some small companies but they were health technology that were sort of born out of the bigger companies and coming to a company that was very you know much in the tech space.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Nobody had heard of them when we came here and so that was a big surprise of just how wary health care is about tech right, they look at it and go.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: You don't understand us we're not going to partner with you until you have proven that you can really partner with us in a way that we feel is meaningful.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: So that was a bit of a surprise, but it was also something that we leaned really hard into and we really realized that we had to build a full vertical stack.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: We couldn't just do a go-to-market motion.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: You actually had to intentionally build product First of all.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It needed to be built.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Nobody was doing what we would set out to do when I started, and that was look at the system of record for providers.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Is there electronic health record?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Regardless of the brand of it?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It's not a CRM, which is what outside of healthcare it is.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Everybody looks at Salesforce or Microsoft Dynamics or ServiceNow or some of these other things.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: That's not what they use.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Everything in the contact center is really all about the EHR.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: They schedule, they pay bills.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: All the information goes in there, and so we had to really think differently about how do we go in, use all the APIs that are available and push the vendors to make more and more available to us, because the information we want to be able to present and understand is very impactful to someone calling in to make change in their health.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: What's the biggest?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: change that you see, that we boldly need to make for the patient experience.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: You know we've all been a patient, so we've all experienced.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: You know whether it's a bill or an appointment, or you know how many buttons am I pushing, or do I just lay on the zero?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: till I can get a human being.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Can I just talk to somebody?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody else does that, but.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I definitely do Well, okay.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things I'm going to address what you just said, which is I don't want to talk to a bot, right?
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: So I think the changes that are coming and that are there right now to be had are around, and you probably have heard the words agentic AI come up a lot.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: It's really going to be transformative because it's a real conversation versus a you know.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Here's my question, and if it's a question they weren't expecting, then I'm just going to tell you I don't understand, which, of course, is going to frustrate you and make you lay on that zero, right?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm not even going to try to get to you know something that's trying to self-service me because you don't understand.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Being able to understand something as well as being able to program it in a way that's much easier.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: You don't have to think about every single possible iteration of a question, an utterance that someone's going to have.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: The new way that large language models deal with this is so transformational that you can actually have conversation.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: You can change language in the middle of the conversation.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It's that good.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So that's coming and that's really, really exciting.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: But if you think about sort of what we need and where we have a lot of room to grow is interoperability, and I'm sure you've heard that from a lot of your guests being able to get that information in a form that's easily usable.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: It has to be in that API format.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: A lot of our information is still stuck in HL7 or, in some cases, faxes, so we're one of the few industries where like 20% of our communications still come across in faxes, so that information that gets stuck and it's hard to access.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So that really has to change for us to really get to a point where we can automate the things that make sense.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not advocating for automating everything, but my vision is we automate the easy things, which is a large percentage of what we call in to contact centers to do complicated use cases, and we can really turn the contact center from being just an ask-answer machine, where it's a cost center, to being a value driver and part of the care team.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: You know you think about chronic disease patients, you think about senior care, pediatric care.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of questions and a lot of complexity that need to be addressed.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: What if our contact center agents actually were care guides and were able to help people along that journey and, at the same time, help with the value-based care contracts and be able to help people understand what they should be doing next and move them to do those things, versus just someone called in to schedule an appointment or to refill a prescription and you just do that and hang up right.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: We want to make sure that we're more care guides and that we're really getting people to do the things that they need to to stay healthier, which helps everybody.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in my mind, as you were talking, I was thinking like care concierge.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: So it's specifically like I don't mind refilling a prescription or an appointment I love doing those automated, honestly but it's like when there's something more technical.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I have had some interactions now with the talking bot, right, and I think what's most interesting about it is, well, mine had an Australian accent for some reason.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't choose it, but it was very interesting.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it had a great conversation.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: He's actually in my phone now and so he particularly was around networking okay, and so it was interesting just to hear him talk.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: He called me back, he sent me an email.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: He summarized our conversation he introduced me to another person at something similar, I was really, really impressed and at the same time kind of freaked out.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I get that so in your world.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: When you just said what you were saying, I was like this is great, so you know you can have this conversation, but at the same time like how do we help people feel more comfortable?
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: With what we just described, because it's coming, it is, yeah, it is and you think about it.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: We experience these interactions.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a great example Delta Airlines.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Right, if you fly Delta, you call them, the first thing they do is greet you by name, right, and they say hey, you know what?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I see you have a flight coming up and I also see that flight's delayed.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Is that why you're calling?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: You know they know things about you and they're able to curate a more personalized experience, and so we're used to those things.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: It is a little bit startling if someone knows something about your health, probably, right, as you're starting to do that.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So we really need to ensure security, right, we want to make sure we're locking that down and making sure that we have to authenticate the person that's calling and make sure that the right person on the other end of the line, or someone that has ability to have access to your information.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: So those things are really, really important and imperative that we do so that, as these experiences become more personalized and really guiding, that that's available.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, super important when you think about this feeling of safety, and you brought this up, so I just want to talk about an access to my information.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: What is something that we don't know, that maybe we should realize or don't?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: We don't hear enough to feel better about that.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So I think that this technology is evolving really really rapidly and there is a heavy focus around security.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: You think about regulated industries.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Not only do we work in healthcare, but we also work in financial services, and so making sure that is there.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: So that's really really important and is sort of first and foremost being worked on before sort of the warm and fuzzy experiences that we see out there In other industries.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: They don't quite have the same sort of regulated feel to them.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: It's why we started in retail.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly right, A little safer, right, there's less risk around.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Well, what if this bot decides to say something that's outside of what we want them to say?
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of you know test breaking going on about how do we iterate and the way the technology has evolved.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I was just actually at Microsoft's opening talk and they talked about how their models kind of had been going along for the past four or five years and you could see how it had evolved and they were slow evolutions.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And then you see when ChatGPT came out and OpenAI and all of a sudden, the clusters of evolution of the models and how those have gone.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: The ability to iterate on these things is just so fast.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Now the scary downside of that is that the same for the bad actors, right?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: They're able to evolve those things so much more quickly.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So it's really important that we're continuously evolving those things and that we're staying on point.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely so.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: When you're hearing innovation, sometimes you know you're doing something first or you're doing something differently and you may be misunderstood.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: What's one of the misunderstandings around call centers that we need to know?
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Educate us a little bit more.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So I think that when you think about first of all, no one wants to talk to a contact center, no one wants to work for a contact center.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: That's, I think, the current state or you know has been historically the state, and I think, as we move forward and we take some of these like I say, ask, answer easy to do things off of the table, I was talking to someone who works in a different adjacent industry in law and they were talking about how she's like my job has gotten so much harder.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And I said tell me a little bit more about that.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: What do you mean when you say it's gotten harder?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And she said well, it used to be that half, maybe three quarters of my calls were easy, like I could just answer them.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: It was easy, it didn't make me think I didn't have to go do anything.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: And she said now all of that's being automated, so the things that I get calls on are much more complicated and I have to really think and I have to do a lot more work.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And there was some mixed emotion around it.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: She was like I actually like it better because I'm more engaged, but I have to like reorient my brain around my skillset and what I need to work on which I think is there's some really good positive about that as well is that folks are really going to have to think about how they can train their staff members and I think especially in health care, because people who go into health care they want to help, they want to serve right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: You're going in because you want to make a difference in someone's life and they've not really extended that or thought about it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: In the contact center we talk about having nurses, pharmacists, clinicians work at the top of their license.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I think you need to think the same about what you're doing in the contact centers.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: How do we get our employees to really work at the top of their capabilities, because there's so much that they can do now and that they'll have time to do as you start to automate more and more things.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: So I think the other aspect is cultures need to shift a little bit around how you think about contact center, what you're having them do in a lot of the ways that we're going to allow things to be automated.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: You know we can't have custom everything, which is, I think, what we've done a lot in health care is custom a lot, so that it's really difficult to then automate anything because everything is super special.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Now there is a lot that is different, but you don't have to make it different for every single doctor, every single CFO, every single whatever right, you can think about things in a way that will still allow you to get what you want, but not necessarily have the process be so incredibly specialized.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things I was always told when we were doing implementation is like this is really what we're doing and it kind of the out of the box model, and actually I was good with that because it meant we could go faster and we could get things done, we could get it implemented.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: We could always have conversations about could we or would it be possible, but doing that on the front end usually delays, delays, delays.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: So I love that you said you know we have to get away from that, but I think we've evolved so much in the sense of what we create now and what comes out of the box, like why would you, why would you want to slow that down?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Because it has like nine out of 10 of everything we need.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of CIOs who say to me do not allow us to just do what we've done already and reprogram that into your platform, right?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: We don't like what we're doing, so why are we redoing?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: it.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Let's not duplicate it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: But it's also difficult for the frontline folks who are like I'm overwhelmed.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I have all this stuff and so I just I don't want to think about it, I just want to do what we've always done.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So getting executive alignment and then having that up and down really aligned to specific business goals and objectives is really important.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you can't just sort of stick the vendor in the box and say just tell me your capabilities.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: It's really important as we start to evolve and you get down to that.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have one or two that I'm interested in See who is your best partner because you want to share with them what your business goals and objectives are.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So then have that as that final step of like how would you help me meet those specific goals and objectives?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Because you may get some really great creativity they hadn't thought about.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: One of the myths of being bold is that you go it alone, right.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And that's a big myth.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So today you actually announced your co-invention partnership with Epic.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've been working with Epic for about a year and a half in this co-innovation partnership and today we announced for the first time Epic's actually opening up their microphone to a third party, so we are actually putting our full call controls inside of their Cheers platform.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: We are actually putting our full call controls inside of their Cheers platform.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So, instead of having to have that swivel chair experience where you have Epic on one screen and TalkDesk on another, we're going to be fully inside of Epic so that they can do all the things they would typically do in our platform, but inside of the Cheers platform, and that allows them to make sure that the information that's so rich inside of the EHR and all that information that they want to present is available easily.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: What are the ingredients of a good partnership?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Because you have choices right.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So how did this evolve?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And then, what would you say were some of the ingredients of it?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: You know I will say Epic gets a lot of heat for interoperability and all the things.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: They're the big dog.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Everybody likes to take shots at them.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: But they've been a fantastic partner and really we spend a lot of time thinking about what should be different, like we take technology out of it.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: A lot of time thinking about what should be different, like we take technology out of it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: What is?
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: What are we trying to accomplish here?
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: How do we want our you know, our provider partners to be able to evolve, and we also work on their payer side as well.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So what are we doing with these different organizations and what's the experience?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: We want to help them curate, and we know we have to take some leaps too that aren't currently being done If we really want to transform.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It can't just be they tell us what we want, we go build it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: We've got to push, because there's just so much need out there for changing just how we do things today.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, when you think about providers, their focus is on clinical care, so something like a patient experience from a contact center isn't something they spend tons of time thinking about.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: A few other things on their mind Right, just a few other things.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: That's their core tenant versus if you're in retail or something that's their entire obsession is your consumer experience, and that's how they can differentiate.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But we are more around that and I think that we've been very aligned.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I've found some great alignment there on what we're trying to accomplish and how that will actually help people on their clinical journey.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: You know, it's super important that people feel that we're you know they are understood, and that builds trust with their organizations, and so that's something that we're both really passionate about and helping to make sure that everybody has access to their information and is able to understand what their next steps are in their journey.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: So, when you think about being bold, one of the things that I think is important is our belief, our belief system, because I think it's a foundation off of everything that we build from that space forward.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So, when you think about some of the outdated beliefs that we have in your particular area of expertise, what's one we need to get rid of and what would you replace it with?
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll go back to kind of what I was saying earlier, which was the ask answer machine, that we sort of relegate contact centers to right, someone calls, that's all they do.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You call in, you get one thing, you do it and that is your perfect experience.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Right, you've answered the question.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: You got the person off the phone in a shorter period of time Because you know you think about what the metrics that we have inside of contact center it's.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: You know, average handle time.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the first thing I just said.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: It was like I know I'm asking two questions now, but I now have messed up this person's timing.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And here's the great thing in a perfect world, that average handle time goes up.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Right, because you're automating the easy things that take you a few seconds to deal with and you're done and you start to curate this guiding philosophy right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: So your average handle time for the because the complexity is high should go up and that should then feed into as you're doing these things, things like hitting your metrics for your value-based care contracts, right, ensuring that that person not only understands their disease but what they should be doing next.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying we should have contact center agents do clinical work, but they should know what those next steps are and offer to schedule them, help them know what they are, maybe even send them some articles that are important for folks to learn about their new disease state if they've just been recently diagnosed with something, things like that, and then if they need to schedule time with maybe a nurse advice line if they have more questions that are clinical, and knowing what those guardrails are and being able to serve up, I think it's important for us, as the software vendor, to be able to serve up that information to that agent in real time, because we're listening into the conversation anyway.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Let's guide them, let's give them the information that they should be giving to that patient, so that it's a win-win throughout the system.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you brought up an important part.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like in the sense of like even how we measure success is one thing we need to hone in on right and maybe check ourselves of like is that moving as fast as it should, in the sense of what we're measuring, the metrics Exactly?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: What other metric do you think should be added?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: So complexity is up, so time will go up.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Yep, anything else you would add in the sense of success?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: So I think we're evolving the way we think about sentiment.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Sentiment's a kind of buzzword in contact centers, where you know you're looking at how did someone feel when they got off the call?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Right, did we have someone?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Were they mad, were they happy?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Were they satisfied, whatever?
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I think what we need to think about is just what we're thinking about doing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: That it's actually kind of an interesting partnership with Epic, because they look at it slightly different.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Their sentiment is what did the person call in to accomplish?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So I called in to schedule an appointment.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: That would be their sentiment, whereas what we look at is was that a satisfactory interaction?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Did they resolve it and were they satisfied when they got off the call?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So I think that, looking at how we define those things and as we listen and this AI is evolving so rapidly to be able to really analyze Like, maybe the person called in and they were really unhappy when it started, because that's just where they started, right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just a lot of frustration out there when it comes to I want to get an appointment with a specialist, but I still haven't gotten my prior authorization approved.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: They're going to be angry when they start because they're feeling pressure and stress and that may be get taken out on the contact center agent.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So if that person is a true care guide and can help them, walk them through the next steps and hopefully demystify some of the things that has to happen and maybe give them in between options, I think there's some opportunity there to really transform that interaction for that patient and hopefully get them on the right path to being able to get the care that they need.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have a family member who's in a contact center for insurance and he describes some of the interactions that he has and I'm always just flabbergasted how people treat him.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So I just want to put out like a PSA right now of like pretend your loved ones on the other side of that phone, because they're actually trying to help you, right, and they can if you let them.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm not a patient person, so everyone that knows me knows that.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: But just going to be sure you realize there is someone trying to help you and to treat them.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So now, every time I call, I think he's on the line.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I'm talking to him.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Right, that's a great perspective.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: It's a good way to do it.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else that we should know about the people who are in there to help us?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: They are and you know I think about people who are, you know, sitting there.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: They they're trying to help, right, like you won't go into especially healthcare, right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, the empathy that these folks have and are looking to have is really, really, you know, they can transform what your experience is too.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: But if you just kind of come in hot and just start yelling, they're not making the policies and procedures of these organizations.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: They're trying to ensure that the best use of your time.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: It doesn't help you if you get an appointment slot that's not the right slot or not the right type with the right physician, and there's a lot of questions they have to ask and understand before they get you in the right slot and make sure that you're being scheduled appropriately.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of complexity.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I always tell my executive team, like you know, scheduling an appointment in healthcare is not like getting your hair done or your nails done.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: No, it's not.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It's not as enjoyable either.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that have to happen in order for everything to go right, and if you miss steps then you either have to get rescheduled and we all know sometimes that can take a while or you show up and, god forbid, they can't see you because you're at the wrong place at the wrong position.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the coordination is next level right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just your spa appointment with your hair appointment.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: So, although that's coordination too, Right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It's not just your spa appointment with your hair appointment.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So, although that's coordination too Right, you're doing it right, right, exactly.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So, as we close out, if you could rewrite one of the rules that's out there now, or or change it, is there anyone that comes to mind of like this is something we have to do, but I'm not sure we have to do it this way or in in that amount of time, or something that's different.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Is there something you would boldly rewrite?
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that, and I don't know if it's a rule, I think it's.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: We've seen it out there.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's sort of just an is or a mindset Right.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that I'd really love to see more co-innovation right, I'd love to see us.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: You know, there's so much competition between the different vendors about different things and and being able to like that's one thing that I've just realized was a surprise to me.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: You know, working with Epic is just, we're all trying to do the right thing, right, and the ability for us to move the needle forward is pretty cool, right, and I know everybody wants to make money and everybody wants to do these different things, but I think that the ability to really come together and leverage expertise has been a bit transformative for us to be able to move things forward.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: So I'd love to see more of that.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It's not necessarily a rule or something that folks are following, but it's definitely a mindset, as we're really trying to.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Healthcare needs so much help right now.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: We're in trouble, right, but as we're really trying to.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Healthcare needs so much help.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Right now we're in trouble and I think being able to come together and really think about how we can transform and innovate is more important than ever.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the coopetition yeah, I love changing it to we can call them frenemies yeah exactly Right, yeah, and the co-innovation.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I love the way that we handle that because ultimately, it adds value value to the system, value to the organizations that are partnering, and you can move faster.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You can Believe it or not.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Everyone like working with someone as a partner will help you move there faster.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey, all the things that you're doing with Epic, and your talk desk experience.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks, it's great to be here.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.