Latest / Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour / When Therapy Enters The Courtroom

Transcript

When Therapy Enters The Courtroom · Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Back.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kim Lee, Child and Adolescent Psychotherapist, and this is another children's consultancy podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is an extension of the podcast I posted earlier, which looked at 50-50 and contact arrangements through the eyes of the child.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt that it was really important to move on to other factors and the way in which these difficulties are very often dealt with by virtue of escalation.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: They become family law cases.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so this episode is really about when therapy meets the courtroom.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: My clinical responsibility, safeguarding, and trying to help where children are caught in intractable conflict.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are times in my work where the therapy room doesn't exist in isolation.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the families I work with are also in the midst of mediation or court proceedings, most commonly around contact or care arrangements and parental responsibility.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, occasionally these cases extend beyond family law and sit alongside parallel criminal proceedings, which adds another layer of complexity and risk.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is very difficult work because at the center of all of this always are children.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Children whose emotional worlds do not pause simply because adults are locked in dispute.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the clinician's role when courts are involved is quite complex because when proceedings are active, my clinical impressions and my professional opinions may very well be sought.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that can take several forms.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a written clinical report with recommendations, having been through very large amounts of other reports as part of the file, risk and mental health assessment, and that can be for all family members, or at times appearing in court to give evidence, including under cross-examination.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now none of this is entered into lightly.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's partly because clinical opinion that is shared with the court must be careful, evidence-based, balanced, and robust enough to withstand scrutiny.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because once something is written or said in that context, it carries real-world consequences for families and for children.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when cases escalate beyond mediation, this is something which uh has has already been gone beyond uh the sort of usual procedures.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: There will have been the efforts for mediation, and that will almost always have failed.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: But judges won't hear cases unless mediation has at least been attempted.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there will have been preliminary court hearings, and there may very well have been judicial efforts to encourage resolution.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this might include people like Kafkas, sometimes social care, child and adolescent mental health services, and and whatever else is available.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there are times when all of these routes have been exhausted, and judges sometimes reach a point where they are quite simply out of options.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sometimes at that stage that I'm approached by the court and asked to work under what's called court order.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when a case has reached that point, it tells me something important before I've even met the family or read the file.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: It tells me that I'm likely to be working with adults who are locked into an oppositional stance, experiencing the situation as adversarial and positioned firmly on opposite sides.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's not even possible for parents to be in the same room at the same time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the forensic nature of this work is considerable.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I must necessarily conduct an assessment which is very, very detailed.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I use the term forensic specifically, it doesn't mean it's punitive.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It means it's thorough, structured, and risk aware.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have to understand the full relational history, assess the mental health functioning of all family members, identify patterns of behavior, and to connect those with risk evaluation, which is both emotional and psychological, and understand how all of this is impacting upon the child.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: The report that follows is not an opinion-based piece of work, it is grounded in evidence, observation, research, and professional judgment.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And judges will very often take the recommendations made and then request that I take the family onto my clinical caseload.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, why this stage of work is particularly perilous is because the work becomes especially delicate at that point.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because moving from assessment into therapeutic intervention in these cases is never straightforward.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It often requires more than one clinician, careful role definition, and in many cases, collaboration with colleagues in family therapy.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Boundaries have to be exceptionally clear, ground rules must be explicit, and the therapeutic focus must be understood by all parties.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the limits of the work must be respected.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes one parent may try and encourage me to work in their favour.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst that may be understandable, it's also seen through a lens of is this person trying to manipulate me?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And is that in some way representative or part of the overall picture?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: When those sorts of things happen, the behaviour is politely acknowledged and declined.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very important that boundaries are clear, and without this, therapy risks becoming another battleground rather than a place of containment.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: There have been times when parents, if they are in the same room, have begun to bring old conflicts back into the present.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I immediately close this down because my role is not to deal with the historical content, it is to deal with the present and the future.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that means that I will be very clear and say, we don't, we're not doing that here.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can do that somewhere else, and I can refer you to someone, but we can't do that here.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst it's an understandable experience and an understandable reaction in parents because they're inflamed, it actually challenges the likelihood of coming to a resolution.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I do think sometimes it's helpful to have two things running together.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: It could very well be that you know family therapy or couples or relational therapy may be a useful thing to add to the work that I've been ordered to do.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But quite often couples have already done that, have assumed that it hasn't worked, but that's because clinicians are not magicians, we can only do so much.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very delicate, and sometimes the margins for change are narrow.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the most important thing is to remember why we're all here, because the children are at the centre of this conflict, and throughout all of this, the children remain locked in the middle of what can feel like an intractable family situation.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're living with prolonged uncertainty, emotional tension, loyalty conflicts, and often a sense that they must adapt, manage, or cope far beyond their development mental capacity.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I see children whose experience of these situations is so overwhelming that they withdraw.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: They won't leave the primary caregiver's house, which is normally mum's house.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then what happens is the adversarial father or other parent accuses the mother of parental alienation.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'll be approaching this subject of parental alienation, which I regard as sometimes a very convenient and somewhat lazy way of explaining what's going on.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in the middle of all of this, we have children who are locked and fearful.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whilst I can say that there are cases where progress is made, I'm always honest about this.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: These are among the hardest cases to work with.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: They require realism, not optimism alone.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: When oppositional behaviour becomes a safeguarding issue, then these cases warrant greater scrutiny because one or both parents are entrenched in oppositional behaviour, and that behaviour is having a direct, ongoing impact upon the child.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: As I spoke about in the previous podcast, this kind of dynamic is deeply wounding for children.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the work moves squarely into the realm of safeguarding.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what safeguarding actually means, first of all, it's not a punishment, and it's not an accusation, and it's not about taking sides.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Safeguarding is a protective process.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Its purpose is to identify whether a child is at risk, understand and quantify the nature of that risk, and also to assess how significant that risk is.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then what happens is a determination of what needs to happen to reduce it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as a clinician, I'm legally and ethically bound to act if something comes to my attention that may constitute a risk to a child's emotional, well-being, physical safety, or any other area of concern.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And my responsibility is to identify and measure the concern and then inform the relevant safeguarding team.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: From that point, it's their responsibility, not mine, to assess and determine next steps.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So after a safeguarding concern is raised, sometimes the outcome is relatively a light touch, family support, guidance, monitoring.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But other times the response is a bit more rigorous, particularly where patterns are entrenched, cooperation is limited, or risks continue to escalate.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I often find myself doing is naming the concern early.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I may say to parents, what I'm seeing or hearing is concerning, and it is pointing towards possible safeguarding intervention.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I may also be clear that unless I'm satisfied that any possible risk has been minimised, a safeguarding referral will automatically occur.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because I don't have a choice.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'd be failing the child if I wasn't willing to actively take notice.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a threat, it's a professional obligation.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting though, what reduces risk is from a safeguarding perspective, one thing matters enormously enormously, and that's engagement.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So when parents show a preparedness to engage, a willingness to reflect, an ability to accept that something's gone wrong, and a commitment to addressing it, the risk level drops dramatically.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But when I see disengagement, defensiveness, or refusal to participate, then I regard that as a red flag and it will be treated accordingly.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Disengag isn't neutral.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It often represents a continuation of the very factors that are increasing risk to the child.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So this work often happens far beyond what is visible in the consulting room.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are reports, court appearances, risk assessments, safeguarding process.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the unseen part of the specialist clinical work.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: But while it's demanding, it exists for one reason only.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that is to ensure that children are not left carrying the emotional consequences of adult conflict.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Safeguarding, when used properly, is not about escalation, it's about protection.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it also is about protecting some of the adults in that situation who may feel isolated and powerless.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those of us who work in this field understand what can happen in families, how people are left feeling powerless, concerned, but not knowing what to do.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I will see those people and they will say, This, I've heard my child tell me this or tell somebody else this, and I I don't know what to do.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: The person is conflicted, worried, concerned about reprisals, thinking my child will be taken away, which won't happen.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I might guide that person towards reporting or contacting, even anonymously contacting safeguarding.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Other times I will say, either if you prefer, I can do this, or I might say what you've told me is something I have to act on.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you because I want to be clear with you about my responsibility, and but also I want to do something which is seen by others as me making the decision rather than you acting maliciously.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's more to say about this, and I'm gonna go on in the next podcast to talk about what is regarded as parental alienation and the dynamics of manipulation.