Latest / Dental Mentors / Maximizing EBITDA, Negotiating Terms, & Building Generational Wealth with Elijah Desmond

Transcript

Maximizing EBITDA, Negotiating Terms, & Building Generational Wealth with Elijah Desmond · Dental Mentors

• Elijah Desmond Full Episode mp3: I know what it's like to go through the sale process personally. I know what it's like also to get that wire that hits your bank account and the excitement that doesn't come as as you think it's going to come. It's gonna be life changing. It's more like a relief when you get done. If you have a ten percent EBITDA margin, you have no business selling your practice. It should be around twenty percent. There's a practice that I just met up with five point five million in revenue. I said, Do you have a a merchant processor that you are personally paying for th those patients' fees? And they said yes. And guess what? They're paying on average three percent. Okay. We're actually able to save that practice ninety thousand dollars in merchant fees because we're having them use aligned payments and they're getting put on the patient. That's very normal. I would say thirty percent of practices are now doing it and it's growing fast. Ninety thousand dollars, they're most likely at five point five million, they're most likely gonna get around a seven times multiple. Okay. You do the math, ninety thousand dollars times seven is what? Sixty. Six hundred and thirty thousand extra when they sell. Extra when they sell. Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of Dental Mentors. I'm your co-host, Neil Zemba. I'm also here with Matt Ornstein and Eric Morin. Today we have a very special guest, Elijah Desmond. Elijah is the co-founder and CEO of Dental Pitch Brokerage. He's also the founder and CEO of the Backstage Pass, which we'll get into today. Elijah is a seasoned entrepreneur with seven successful company exits under his belt. As co-founder and co-CEO of Dental Pitch Brokerage, Elijah leads a sell side firm dedicated to helping dental professionals. Maximize the value of their practices and secure ideal exit terms. His unmatched experience in building, scaling, and exiting businesses makes him a trusted authority and practice transitions. A two-time best-selling author, Elijah's book, Serial Entrepreneur, From Startup to Success, serves as a blueprint for entrepreneurs looking to launch, grow, and exit with confidence. His ability to simplify complex business strategies into actionable steps has made him a sought-after mentor. and speaker across the dental world. Elijah has revolutionized dental education through groundbreaking ventures like Smiles at Sea and the Dental Festival, creating immersive CE experiences that combine learning, fun, and networking. His influential community supports over 26,000 dental professionals exploring non-clinical career alternatives. Elijah is known for his motivational yet tactical approach, equipping dentists and dental specialists with the tools to optimize EBITDA, position for acquisition, and confidently navigate their journey from ownership To freedom. Whether you're preparing to sell now or years down the line, Elijah is a strategic partner who ensures you don't just sell, you win. Elijah, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for coming. And man, I couldn't have said that better myself. You gave me the best intro ever. Thank you, Neil. Thanks for coming. Well deserved. Your reputation precedes you, Elijah. Thanks for being on. Absolutely. Yeah. So Elijah, if it's if it's all right with you, w and we have a couple of topics to cover today, but You know, I think everybody loves to hear, you know, your background, a little bit of your story and how you ended up where you are today. Absolutely. well, I'll tell you that I was raised on a big farm in in Ohio and and graduated from the Ohio State University, Proud Buckeye. I'm I'm graduated actually as a dental hygienist. So I understand clinical dentistry, but it wasn't long before I realized I was not hireable and I needed to create my own businesses. So I I started my first business in Hawaii in 2009, just shortly after graduation. And that was a dental staffing agency. And without going through all 20 businesses, we'll just say that I've had some bumps in the road. I learned the hard way by scraping my knees sometimes. I didn't go and get my MBA. So I learned from trial and error and then surrounding myself around dental mentors like yourself. good news is I haven't lost in about five years or or failed on any businesses, but I've just had my seventh exit in June, all dental companies. And I know what it's like to to go through the sale process personally. I know what it's like also to get that wire that hits your bank account and the excitement that. doesn't come as as you think it's going to come. It's gonna be life changing. It's more like a relief when you get done. And so I own two businesses, but I think it's also important for everybody to understand my why and my purpose on this this earth. I am a motivational speaker for high school kids. I've spoken all over the world and I've spoken since 15 years old. my my my why is is saving kids lives from the stage, making it so they don't go home and commit suicide. Every time I speak to a high school, there's always at least one to two kids that come up to me afterwards and tell me that they're not gonna commit suicide because of the words that I said from the stage. And that was the addiction that I caught at 15 years old. It wasn't a drug addiction. it was an it was an addiction to being able to have the power to not be a heart surgeon or a doctor and save lives. So I've expanded it to motivational concerts where I'll put five to ten high schools in one football stadium. And the last one I did in September, I was able to prevent six kids from committing suicide. So more than just a entrepreneur, I would say. I have a bigger purpose, and I have two little girls, six and eleven years old, and a beautiful wife down in South Florida. Elijah, first of all, I appreciate everything you do. Not only are you a great friend, friend, a mentor, someone amazing to have on this podcast. I love having you in my life, but are we gonna sidestep the fact that You went to Ohio State and Neil went to Michigan. Are we just sideswing that whole thing? I'm just I just throw that out there for a second. I want audience to know I was gonna say this. So I grew up in a small farm in Michigan and I went to there's no the. We I just went to University of Michigan and I just want I just want our audience to know that Elijah is so freaking awesome that we're still really good friends and we both we both ended up in the place where everybody from the Midwest goes anyways, which is South Florida. So All roads all roads lead to South Florida. Yes. Goodbye. I'm glad to have you Elijah. And I still hate Urban Meyer, and that's okay. There you go. Okay. We don't need to rub it in. Listen, we didn't win one time. And I and I by the way, I just have to say I I love that U of wins in the first ti is like the first time in ever, and then OSU just has to win the next year. Really that that actually really pissed me off. But it's okay. I mean, to be honest, it pissed me off that you guys were stealing signals as well. So allegedly. Allegedly. All right. So I'm I'm gonna keep the peace here. Keep the peace. Let's we'll we'll go back we'll go back to dental. I just I just had a I like our day in court. Thank you. A grenade a grenade and all this. so I'm gonna move into into back into the dental side, Elijah, because the truth is you've had tremendous influence in this industry and Before we even met each other, I've s heard and saw the great work you're you've been doing inside of this. And then, you know, dental pitch was formed. And when I heard about dental pitch, I thought it was one of the best ideas that I've heard of in so long. And I was so excited about it. And you invited me to one your events to go see it. And I think that one was at Dykoma. And it was just an an amazing concept. The way you've built dental pitch, what you've done with it. Can you kind of give the audience a little bit about dental pitch, the genesis, the idea, what you know, and then where you are today where kind of things are moving? Absolutely. So dental pitch actually started as a event that was helping startups. Okay. So I would have around 100 dental companies pitch me that were looking to get on my stage and essentially pitch just like sh the the the show Shark Tech. The only difference is they're all dental companies. And they are looking to raise between 300,000 and $3 million. So I would have a hundred companies pitch me their business and I would have to pick I would call them the the unicorns and the companies that I thought that were gonna actually make it and make it really big and become the next billion dollar company. And so I would pick seven to ten of them, and then I would have sixty to eighty strategic investors that I would have to interview to essentially pick who I wanted to be the investors or the Simon Cows. I think the only real Simon Cow was one of your prior guests, Brian Caleo, of the of our version, which was which was essentially the eight, you know, eight people that were strategic investors. Anyhow, what we we were doing was is we were helping raise money for these companies. we helped raise over ten million dollars, started it in two thousand twenty one, and in two thousand and twenty two I met this amazing human by the name of Matt Ornstein. And I'll never forget when I first met Matt. Matt comes up to me and he goes, Elijah, I just and I didn't know who he was at the time, but he goes, Elijah, I just want to tell you that you're like the most positive person in our entire industry of dentistry, besides one person. And I'm like, thank you, first and foremost, but I gotta meet this person. And he sticks his hand out and says, Nice to meet you. My name is Matt Ornstein. Like literally. best pickup line ever. if that was, but like he ha he won me over at that. We'll just put it like that. And we became best friends and got to know each other on a personal level. We both shared the love of wrestling. I actually was recruited from University of Michigan and I ended up getting an injury which allowed me to not fulfill those dreams and it it's just been a pleasure w working with Matt and you know there was lots of conversations that that Matt and I had but the conversation That I heard over everything was is Elijah, I see you, right? I see you. And that's extremely important. Like to have somebody that believes in you and essentially gives you everything that you could ever use to be a powerful entrepreneur. I was as extremely connected. however, there was certain things I didn't have. I didn't have full-time attorneys on my team. I didn't have a major financial backing. I didn't have somebody that believed in me enough to say whatever it takes. And And that was how I got a chance to meet Matt. And I sat down with with Matt at the Dykemodental Conference and really got a chance to know him. And and it's been a a long, long, fun run ever since. But I'll tell you, Matt is very honest and he is also brutally honest at some point. and when we were rocking this event, of it was called Dental Tank at the time. I went to him and I said, Matt, I think that we're at the wrong end of this. We're at the startup side. To me, it makes sense to sell already successful businesses and keep the same format. And he goes, Elijah, you are a genius. And I gotta tell you one more thing. The old dental tank has a absolute zero percent chance of being successful. Brutally honest. But this, like, you're a genius. Like I have your back once again. I mean he always has my back. Let's do it. And so, you know, basically I was able to go out and and bring in the best team that I believe that the brokerage space has ever seen. That's extremely a diverse team that doesn't just have business brokers, but we have, you know, people that are clinicians, people that have been in the and A space for over twenty five years, past consultants and you know, you you two attorneys. and we just have The all-star team. And that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for for Matt and and the belief and what I was doing. And so we converted what we were doing from, you know, just essentially startups to already successful businesses. And for the people that are listening, I'd be like, I don't want to get on stage. Don't panic. That's not the only way we sell dental practices, is through this dental pitch event itself. But we just basically had, you know, 10 buyers lined up in a room. And we bring a seller on stage and Matt or myself interviews the seller and ask them questions about, you know, things that are basic, you know, what got you into dentistry, what makes you want to sell? Tell us about your team culture. And it it basically allows the buyer to get to know them as individual and it gets them the opportunity to ask them any questions that they may have for the buyer. And then we set up one on one meetings for them and then we go through the rest of the the transition. process with negotiations and and and my my team has been doing great with it so that's kind of what it is in a nutshell and and how it transitioned from startups to selling already successful practices and to date we're we're focused on practices that are over two million in revenue. however practices that are not there or not ready to sell we're we have an amazing opportunity to refer them with gr to great organizations such as you Eric with tower leadership I mean you're such a crucial instrumental role on them. We use you for doing the quality of earnings light. And we also refer to you for practices that are not quite ready to sell yet, but they want to grow their EBITDA. So we bring the bring the master in for that. Appreciate that. So I already I already know the answer to this because I I put a lot of time in with dental pitch brokerage. But you know I'm gonna ask for our audience, what are some of the things and I know you know you and I designed this from the start, but I'd love you to just share with the audience, like what are some of the really incredible things about that set dental pitch brokerage, you know, set us apart from some other business brokers in the industry. Yeah, I'm gonna hit this one right over the the head. It's very obvious from all of our buyers that have have came to us and given us so many compliments. By the way, Matt, I don't know if you you heard this or yet, but we're at that hundred hundred mark. We're crack cracked a hundred buyers, right? But here's what the buyers are saying that in the industry traditionally, there is valuations for dental practices. Brokers are some are charging $5,000, some $10,000, even up to $20,000 for a valuation. And these valuations are coming to them and they're simply not right. Many of them, most of them are not right. And here's what happens is, is they get the the number of the valuation in the seller's head. And once that seller that number is in their head, they already have spent the money, right? They already know what they're getting. They spent the money. And then it goes to the buyers. And the buyers actually do a real quality of earnings. Okay. And when they do that quality of earnings, they realize that that number is actually significantly wrong. If that valuation was say what's at four million dollars, the buyers are coming back and saying, No, actually, the true value of your practice in today's market. Is 2.7 million and it puts them at a disadvantage out of the gate. So it messes things up. And by the way, if the practice is valuation is at 2.7 million, okay, but the buyer actually does the quality of earnings and it's at 4 million. Do you think the buyer's gonna say that? No, they're gonna say, okay, we'll give you 2.7 million. So what are we doing that's different? We're not doing that. Instead, in every single one of our contracts, it states that you must get. A quality of earnings light done in order to work with dental pitch brokerage. And so we are actually having our sellers do a quality of earnings light. And some of you may be thinking, not maybe you on the call, but you listeners, well, what is a quality of earnings in the first place? Well, I would summarize it on a high level is forensic accounting of your dental practice. It's going to show the past three years of your active patients, past three years of your new patients, Neil. it's also going to show what your EBITDA is, your adjusted EBITDA. It's going to show your your payer mix as well. It's going to show everything that you actually need to sell that practice. And most importantly, your EBITDA and your adjusted EBITDA. And when we're going to buyers, we're not going to them with a valuation. Instead, we're going to them with a quality of earnings that specifically says this is the adjusted EBITDA and it's right. Why is it right? Well, we have a third party, very qualified firm, such as Tower Financial, who does the quality of earnings. So we know we're not we're right. So we're not negotiating on what the valuation is. We're actually negotiating on two things. And one may be a little bit more important. The first thing we're negotiating on is the multiple of EBITDA. Okay. And for those of you who haven't read Matt's book yet, I'm gonna call EBITDA your net profit after Dr. Pay, okay? And after adbacks are put back, what are ad backs? Personal expenses, one-time expenses like a cone beam, a laser. what is a personal expense? Maybe you put your car and run it through the business. It's okay, we're not the IRS. Just we're gonna add that back. Okay, you don't have to worry about us turning you in. one time, one time expense could be maybe a consultant that you that you pay. you know, maybe you use Eric services, and essentially, you know, the buyer is not gonna continue with Eric. So that's a add back. to the EBITDA, that adjusted EBITDA. So we're getting the adjusted EBITDA and we are multiplying it by a specific number. That is what we're negotiating. That number could be five, it could be six, it could be seven, it could be eight. The bigger your EBITDA or your net profit, the higher the multiple. And so we're negotiating on the multiple of EBITDA, number one, and number two, the terms, which are sometimes more important than the actual number itself. The terms of the agreement are so much more important. So We're not going back and forth with them about evaluation, what is, what's, and what's not. We're going back and forth with them on the terms most importantly, and then the multiple of EBITDA. That is what sets dental pitch brokerage away from the large majority of other brokerage firms in our industry. Yeah, I want to add something too, just to clear everything up with anyone who's watching or listening. if you get a quality of earnings done as a selling dentist or if you if you own multiple practices, If you get a quality of earnings done and we know what your real EBITDA is or real net operating income, and we present it to the buyers, the buyers are not coming back th with some crazy lowball offer. They don't, they don't do that. You know, the buyers knows what they know what the market is. The buyers know what multiples are current market multiples. And we're not really running into a problem with with buyers trying to say, well, your practice is worth this. Because they can't do that because we have the real numbers and we know what the state of the market is and we know what the what multiples are being paid in different markets and based off different EBITDAs. So when we get that done, it completely eliminates buyers trying to lowball the practices that we represent on the sell side. It just it completely eliminates that that scenario. So then we really get to focus on making sure that the sellers that we represent are getting the highest price that the market is willing to pay at that time and then focusing on the on the terms that will will dictate a lot of things after the sale. And the feedback that you know I get from the buyers all the time is this is really a a a breath of fresh air. So we're not having to go through a whole mess of you know incoherent financials and waste months trying to figure out what this practice is worth. When Dental Pitch Brokerage puts the package together and gets it out to the buyers that are interested The buyers love it because they're getting real data. It's accurate. And then the buyers can make their highest and best offer with the best terms because they know they have real data to work with. So it's really nice. I mean, I've just going through all the acquisitions we've been through at Oak Dental Partners. I have to say that in general, my experience with you know, I'm not I don't want to knock all brokers because some of them are really good, but my overall experience with dealing with brokers has been quite unpleasant because the information that's provided on the front end has not been accurate and it just causes a whole lot of a lot of issues. Like we might have spent two or three months doing due diligence only to find out, you know, a the a broker might have said, their EBIT is four million and then we we get our own quality of earnings done and it's actually two million. And you know, we can't we we just wasted three or four months of due diligence. And it's not a fun process to be through. So just our Our you know, how clear and concise and accurate all the information that dental pitch brokerage provides to the buyers ends up being a huge advantage to the sellers that we represent to get them the maximum price possible and the best terms. You I also want to say that there's one other thing, because you asked the original question was what separates us, what makes us different? transparency separates us. transparency does because I'm gonna, you know, this is gonna maybe be a very disruptive podcast when people hear it, but I'm just gonna tell people the real honest truth and it because they they deserve it. what dental pitch does is we have three different contracts or agreements with our buyers. One is a non disclosure agreement, an NDA. And that means that essentially your your practice is kept and held in confidence. So we're not they can't tell anybody that you're selling, basically. Another one is called a non solicit agreement. That means that they cannot go and poach your employees once they figure out that you're looking to sell. They're not gonna snatch your employees. And then the last one is called a non circumvent. That means they can't go around us and work directly with you. But this is very important. Take note. What we don't have is a contract in which the buyer is paying us between one and five percent. That's what we do not have. We will not accept money from the buyer. And in our industry, it is normal. Buyers regularly ask us if they could offer us one to five percent for sending us any deals. Now we could take that, right? And and I'm gonna be honest, at the very beginning, we've considered it. Did we ever? No. But we will never. And I'm gonna tell you the reason why. Because if you're a sell side broker, whose side are you really on? If if this person is offering you 5% of the sale and they're a buyer, and this person's offering you two percent. And and and of the buyer, where am I going to bring you? I'm probably going to bring you to the person that's bringing at five percent. So I don't feel you can be on both sides. And oftentimes I'll talk to sellers and they'll say, hey, well, you're you're offering me a rate. By the way, normal rate in the DSO space is eight to ten percent, right? It could go as low as six, it could go as high as twelve, but eight to ten percent. Elijah, you're offering your rate at 10%. And this other brokerage firm is offering eight percent. Here's what I will press you to say to them. Can you please be honest and transparent with me? Tell me if you're going to be getting any money or if you have any contracts with a buyer who's able to give you one to five percent. Okay. Because for us, we're telling the buyer pay the seller that one to five percent. We won't accept your money. It's no good here. And that's extremely important. And it also looks very good for the buyers because they're able to offer more money. So we are very well liked in the space. And it's very important to understand the transparency of the number. Now I'm going to go step further. Anytime that we are referred a seller, we pay 10%. We pay 10% who anybody who sends us a seller and anybody who brings us a buyer, we pay 10%. And in the event that we cannot sell a practice, meaning none of the hundred buyers are interested. Guess what? I actually have a strong broker network. And I will go to the other brokers and say, hey, It's been two, three months. We can't seem to sell this deal. Can you find them a buyer? Well, we would have to split our fee and pay between 20 and 50% of our personal commissions to that person. Nobody is saying that. It's a big mystery. Nobody's saying in the industry, and we're very transparent about. And that's what sets us apart. And man, I could go on forever, but I'm gonna pick one more thing. I believe in long game and I believe in helping everybody, even if I'm not serving them. What does that mean? If a practice comes and we can't service them, guess what? I'm still gonna love on them. I'm gonna tell them who to go and and and see for their cup their marketing agency. I'm gonna tell them who to go and see for their dental consultant. I'm gonna refer them a ton of different opportunities so they can grow their practice in hopes of maybe we sell them in two, three, four, five years. I hope a dentist comes to me seven years out and says, What do I do? Not six months before they want to sell. And it's important to understand that we have a long game. We're not out here have these high paid sales reps trying to get you signed on the dotted line and sell a practice that really shouldn't be sold. If you have a 10% EBITDA margin, you have no business selling your practice. It should be around 20%. And if you want us to sell you at a 10%, well, guess what? We're probably not the broker for you. And it's important to understand it's a long game for us. It's not a short game. Which I wanna say too, because before I understood, and I'm still, you know, not not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be about the about the broker space and dentistry, but you know, I and I feel like a lot a lot of people, you know, we think of brokers or agents, I think of of the real estate world, right? Like a real estate agent, and you've got buy site agents, sell site agents to your point. how is the dental brokerage industry different than re than like residential real estate? Awesome. So Here's what's really cool is is whenever I have a question that a doctor asks me or somebody asks me that I actually don't know the answer to, I won't make it up. So I have a really powerhouse team that can answer almost every single question. So I actually won't answer answer that question. I'll defer to to to Matt to answer that question because I'm not familiar with real estate like he is. Yeah. So I'm happy to answer that. You're talking about residential real estate? It's honestly a specific question was because you you said something in a Elijah and forgive my ignorance here, but like e even the like like in I'm just thinking like a residential real estate agent, right? Like to my knowledge, a residential real estate agent, if they're representing a seller of a house, they can't go and necessarily represent a buyer like like 'cause 'cause then you're you're dipping in both ponds. Like they can't they can't negotiate on behalf of the buyer and the seller. Is my understanding. So like but but you're saying in the in the dental brokerage space, there's a lot of people playing both sides and a lot of people are not disclosing it. I guess that that was my specific because I when you said that, I was like, that's like that's really bad because how do they know how does a seller know if you're on their team or not? So it's not the are are the rules different? Are there is there any regulation that prevents that from happening, or is that just kind of like how it is? I so I'll jump in. There there are no rules or regulations on that. It is a huge conflict of interest if you are a dental broker representing a seller of a dental practice or group for you to also be taking money from potential buyers as a huge conflict of interest. But it's allowed. Wow. And you don't even have to disclose it. So well, you know, we don't do that at dental pitch brokerage. you know, we've never done it. We'll never do that because it's a it's a massive conflict of interest. I mean, I mean it's kinda like Can you imagine if if if you hired a divorce attorney and you didn't know that that's name representing your your ex as well as you that's insane. When you when you first said that, Elijah, I was like, I was like, wait a minute, that's possible. And I yeah, we get into conversations about what we what the fees are, right? What are our charges? And I'll never call another brokerage firm out ever. It's just not my style. But I will tell you this, there are many that call and say, well, this group is offering, you know, 1% lower than you or 2% lower than you. I already know that they're getting paid on the buyer, but I'm not gonna tell them that. But what I will say is that you need to flat out ask the question. They're not gonna tell you probably, but you need to ask because I I can't compete in that space. Here's another thing is let's just say we sell a practice and they do a JV partnership, meaning They sell 60% of their practice and they keep 40% of their practice themselves. Okay. That 40% of the practice, we also are not getting paid a fee on. We don't, and there is multiple brokers that get paid on everything. We are only getting paid on what you sell. Now, if you sold, say, 10% to the to the the buyer and you kept 30%, we will get paid on that 10% and the 60% if they invested 10% in the holding company, right? But we also aren't paid on that. So fees are like. not discussed or are they understood. And I'm here to shake up the industry and tell people really what it is to feel like they deserve it. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean that I I I can't believe that that's how it is. But that that makes a lot of sense. you know, one thing one one other question that I have is just for folks listening that because I feel I talk to owners all the time that wanna know what their practice is worth. They wanna, you know, they they they want to dabble, right? They wanna It's not it's not even necessarily that they're not serious about it. They just don't know. I think I think people people are curious. They want to figure out what's going on. You mentioned the KPI of like twenty percent EBITDA, if I'm not mistaken, or twenty percent margin. That stands out to me as a KPI that people listening to this could take away and go, okay, if I'm at twenty percent EBITDA, I'm able to sell. If I'm under that, maybe not yet. What are some what are what are the other main numbers, if there are any that people should keep in mind? To know if they're even able to sell. Elijah, before you answer that, I'm just want to jump in real quick and normally I don't do this when we have guests on, but we dental pitch could sell a dental practice with 10% profit margins. We could do it. But what Elijah's saying is we would rather help, because we're also an advisory firm where dental pitch brokerage dental pitch advisory and brokerage. Elijah's saying Elijah would rather refer that dentist to a group that can help that dentist. improve their profit margin from 10 to 20 percent before dental pitch brokerage sells them and literally double the sales price of that practice. Elijah the type of guy, and I I watch him do this, someone says, look, I'm ready to sell and you know, well, you got 10% profit margins. And we could sell them easily. The price would be half of what it would be if they had 20% profit margins. Elijah's such a great guy. Elijah tells Dennis your profit margins are really half of what they could be. Let me refer you to some other people that can get your profit margin, double your profit margins. It might take a year, 18 months, and then come back and let us sell you and we'll get you twice the price that you would have gotten if we just said, hey, we'll sell you now. And that's what Elijah means by paying playing the long game. And I don't want to monopolize this podcast, but I just want to be clear on what Elijah said. If you're a if you are a dentist and you refer one of your friends that wants to sell their dental practice to dental pitch brokerage. Dental pitch brokerage will pay you as the referring party 10% of the total success fees that dental pitch brokerage receives for just for referring someone. I also think it's important to discuss that about us not selling a practice that has a a 10 10% eBIT margin, just so I can give some some a couple of takeaways for the the guests that are l that are listening. because there have been many practices that we've got that that have. No EBITDA, 8% EBITDA, 10% EBITDA. And instead of saying like rush, rush, go sell, it's like, no, let's pause. Let's wait six, twelve, twenty-four months to sell you because you can get substantially more. And guess what? They may not come back to us to work with us potentially. It doesn't matter. We have 50 to 100 leads coming in and referrals every single month. My thought process is if we serve, if we serve, if we help, help, help. It comes back if you do the right thing. And so I believe fully that that's the right thing. Now, I'll tell you, there's a practice that I just met up with here in South Florida, 5.5 million in revenue. Okay. And they're not ready to sell. That is okay. But they said, can you give us a couple of of tips and pointers? And I said, Yeah, absolutely. And I said, first thing is your merchant processor. Do you have a merchant processor that You are personally paying for those patients' fees and they said yes. And guess what? They're paying on average three percent. Okay. We're actually able to save that practice $90,000 in merchant fees because we're having them use aligned payments and they're getting put on the patient. That's very normal. I would say 30% of practices are now doing it and it's growing fast, but $90,000, they're most likely at $5.5 million, they're most likely going to get around a seven times multiple. Okay. So You do the math, ninety thousand dollars times seven is what? Six hundred and thirty thousand extra when they sell. Extra when they sell. Next thing I I said, wow, you guys have I went and seen all these Invisalign boxes. I'm like, wow. And no knock on Invisalign. I actually spoke like 50 times for them, but I'm like, you guys have so many Invisalign cases. How many do you a month? They said 20 a month. I said, okay, great. Well, have you ever considered working with another aligner company? Like, let's just call it Ortho FX. And what if I could save you five hundred dollars per case on that clear aligner? Well, five hundred times twenty is thousand dollars in savings per month. Ten thousand dollars times twelve is a hundred and twenty thousand dollars. If you multiply that by a seven times multiple, well, my math whizzes here. How much is that? It's an extra eight hundred and forty thousand dollars when they sell doing the exact same thing for their patients. So just those two things. You just increase their sales price by over a million and a half dollars. Million and a half. And there's so many different levers that you can pull. And there's also people that will actually hold your hand and take you through these levers that you could pull, such as Tower Leadership and others. But the point is, is that if I like a lot of people, okay, I'll sell your practice. Why in the world would I sell your practice when you could make an extra one point five million? And by the way, that was two things. We haven't talked about your labs. We haven't talked about your distributor. You haven't did insurance negotiation in in two or three years. And you could increase your insurance reimbursement rate by 10%. You know what 10% will do to a $5.5 million practice? I will change their life upside down from just listening for and not selling. All you have to do is not sell your practice right now. So I'm not condoning not selling. I'm just I'm just saying sell at the right time and stop rushing. And talk to somebody prior. Talk to me seven years out, not six months before you're ready to sell. It's amazing. That's what I mean by like Elijah has, I tell him this all the time. He's got the most beautiful heart of anybody I've ever met in my life. But what he just said is absolutely brilliant. Like Elijah knows every lever that you can pull and move. And Elijah also has contacts for companies that can accomplish those lever pulls. So I mean, just the couple of things that Elijah said there. that the practice did that, you know, over the course of twelve months, it literally could increase their sales price of their practice by four or five million dollars. And Elijah's fine with like, look, look, look, don't sell yet. Like if Elijah discovers these things, he'll tell a seller, let me put you on the right path here, connect you with the right vendors, the right people, and just wait an extra 12 months and you might get an extra three to five million dollars when you sell. I don't know any other brokers that are gonna do that because they want like, all right, we'll just sell you now, boom, we're done, make our commission successfully and move on. And I can tell you honestly that that that that we don't do that at dental pitch brokerage. Elijah is I keep saying it's the most beautiful heart of any anyone I've ever met. And Elijah is cool with like deferring a sale or maybe, you know, not even, you know, potentially losing a client if Elijah can help them ultimately. Increase the valuation and value of their dental practice or group. He's just such such an incredible guy, but he's also a genius. Like I how many times have I told you like you're a genius? Like all the time. He is so smart. And the amount of people and the and the quality of the people that Elijah knows in the dental industry, not just CEOs of of dental groups, but the CEOs and owners and founders of so many companies that are vendors in the space. that have the tools, the technology, and the resources to just move a couple levers and, you know, i drastically increase the value of a dental practice in a fairly short period of time. It's really cool. Like I just love watching what he does. Thanks, Matt. Well, I want to say this. I reiterate everything you just said, Elijah. One of the things I'm far enough in my career when I when I started to get really passionate about something is I know That's just, you know, I I see your energy when we start talking about this and serving these people. Cause I always key on that myself and my when my energy gets up. I love your enthusiasm towards this because I I've actually had conversations with you on the side and we were like, look, if they come back, they come back. It's not a big deal. I just want them served. We've had conversations where you've you said, Hey, listen, seven years, they should be thinking way out. What are their goals? What do they want for their family? And so we are aligned on that. And and so I can just attest to that. And I love those conversations. You and I had a very long Conversation one time about that. And I just love it. and then and the accuracy that you guys are trying to get is really, really, really important. I just want to reiterate everything you just said because because people are right now looking at the wrong number sometimes. And I will say in this, I've been in some type of form of dental accounting. I've been around it for going on 30 years. And I will tell you the amount of financials that I've seen that I believe it are correct are probably two to five percent. The rest of them probably have some work to do. I'm not making that number up. I'm not just exaggerating. so having somebody take a look at that's really important. So I just want to thank you for your passion around this subject, what you're doing for these people. I just think it's amazing. And I just want to back that statement up because I've had the pleasure to get to work with you on so many people you guys are helping. No doubt. So if it's all right with everybody, I'd like to, you know, get get into a discussion about another business that Elijah has, which is dental related, which is phenomenal. I'm actually a a member in this organization. It's called the Backstage Pass. And I can tell you it's it I've been in a lot of business groups before. It's by far the best group I've ever been in. I mean from A to Z, but it's called the Backstage Pass. Would you be kind enough to just share with our audience what that is and you know, why you started it and what it does, et cetera? Yep, absolutely. well, first off, I started it this is the first time I've ever said this on a podcast, but I started this because my wife had a medical condition in which you know, these four medications and and pick line that she had to be on for 12 months, they she had to take two at a time. And the long story short is is first two kept her up for very long time, four days, and they didn't work. Next one she broke out in hives. And there was two left. And I'll never forget sitting down with a doctor and the doctor basically saying that there's two other medications that you could take. if these two don't work, you have to move to Colorado and you're gonna have to take this drug that that is a strong antibiotic through a PIC line. and it's working very well, but that's the only other option. And by the way. the cost for that is twenty four thousand dollars a month and insurance doesn't cover it. So you talk about transparency and getting raw, never said that one time in four and a half years on a podcast. And as as a man who's told their wife to stay at home and, you know, a father of two kids, when a doctor looks you in the eyes and says, This is twenty four thousand dollars and she's not gonna make it. If she doesn't get this, there's there's not even a second that went by. And I didn't have an extra $24,000 at the time, but not a second went by in which I said, no, it was immediately no problem, I will take care of it. That is actually the real reason why I created Backstage. Prior, I had poured into the the industry and poured into people so much and connected. I was the connector in the industry. And I never monetized on that. I just always connected people. I always helped specifically the underdog and not necessarily the person at the very top. I went to the top early on in my career and I got the door slammed in my face and or not opened. And I felt like it was too hard at the top. So what it what I did is is I decided to dedicate my career to helping the underdog and the people that actually really needed me and they need connected. And you know, fast forward to Four and a half years ago, I had helped hundreds of people or arguably thousands of people create and grow their businesses, their dreams, their visions, giving them ideas, connecting them with people. And I just basically said, Hey, I'm starting this mastermind. And it's not for a dentist, but it is for people who serve a dental practices that have the same core values as me: kindness, abundance, and fun. And I'm bringing a group together. That group. is what's is known today as backstage and it's my mastermind. And it's been a pleasure having you, Matt, and and Eric now is going on three years in the mastermind. And it's really a a group, it's a group of founders, it's a group of entrepreneurs that actually really care and serve our industry and provide products, services, software to our industry, everything that you could could ever think of from starting a practice To growing a practice, to operating a practice, to scaling a practice, to pre-sell advisory, to selling the practice. And then, by the way, wealth advisory after they sell a practice. So I mean like literally everything that you could ever need. And they're trusted entrepreneurs, people that you could trust with your baby. Who's your baby? It's your dental practice or your dental group. And this group has it grew from eight members in the first two the first two months to 60 members. And so The really cool thing of how this all comes together is is that 90% of the people that reach out to dental pitch brokerage, which is 50 to 100 referrals and and and leads every month, you know, 90% of them we cannot serve right now. We're we have a boutique white glove approach. We only take certain process practices that qualify. And these practices that are calling, a lot of them are calling because they're interested in potentially selling. Maybe they may not sell for For six months or 12 months or 24 months. And they can call in a safe place and I can tell them it's okay. And I got your back. I'm here to serve you. And my team essentially connects them with all of these entrepreneurs who are able to service their practice and to grow and to help them. And we have, you know, 15 different consultants. in the the the mastermind that help on every type of dentistry. And then you have people that are extremely high level and are focused on EBA de growth that are that are there that that are perfect for Eric Morin. And and it's every type of entrepreneur that we can get. And so now what happens is is that when they called Dental Pitch Brokerage and and asked can we help them without even knowing anything about their practice, the answer is always yes. But can we sign them or will we represent them? I'm gonna be honest, 90% of the time, it's actually no, we can't not right now, but you should wait to sell, right? Or we have another broker that we can refer you to, but we have solutions and ways for them to grow their practice. So that way, you know, whenever they call us back in in 12 months or 24 months or five years, they remember who served them hard at the very beginning. And I'm confident that many of them will come back. And the ones that don't, it's okay. There's plenty to go around, but as long as I know that we served and we helped and we provided solutions, that's all that matters. Can you get into a little bit like what backstage is? You know, what is the time commitment? you know, I don't know if you want to get into you know, there there's a there's a monthly fee to be to to be in backstage. But I just wanna say this real quick. Elijah asked me to join backstage. I didn't really know what it was. I ha I hadn't had great experiences in the other professional groups that I was in. I was in EO for a while and some other, you know, professional mastermind groups. And I was like, yeah, I'll join. And I I had I had like the lowest expectations. And I I can tell you on a sc on the strictest scale from one to 10, backstage has been a 10. The people in there are the nicest group of people I've ever met. They all have an abundance mindset, always willing to help. And then the the backstage has a bunch of different like mastermind pods. So Whatever you really need help with or you want to get information on or learn from, you can choose from all these different pods. There are two in-person events per year, which are incredible. And I did not join backstage like hoping to get any like financial benefit out of it. I really didn't. But oddly enough, through all the connections of the people in Backstage and and you know, me sharing what things that we need to help on our at at our DSO, I don't know the exact number, but I think our EBITDA probably has increased like four to five million dollars a year as a result of the connections and relationships I've developed within Backstage. I mean there's so the people are so smart. They know things that I did not know. They've made connections for for my DSO. We've implemented a lot of things and I I think our EBITDA probably has increased, you know, four or five million dollars as a result of those relationships. but I'd love you to share with people like, you know, what is what exactly is it You know, what do the members get out of it? How much time commitment? What does it cost? And why would somebody want to join? Absolutely. So first off, w this is my first podcast as well, telling the world that Backstage exists. it was underground for four for four years. And December fifteenth, we actually told the world that we existed. And why? Because it's not for everybody. There is a true application process. What is what is the actual details of backstage? Well, first off, we meet multiple times. we meet two times in person for a retreat. and then with and that's with everybody, all 60 members. I would say of the 60 members, 80% can typically come. And then we also meet two times in person in smaller groups, and that's a hot seat format. and the hot seat format is essentially everybody's focused on you. For those of you that don't know a mastermind is It's pretty simple. Eric Morin, he has a freaking beautiful mind. Like he can create so many things by himself. Matt Ornstein, beautiful mind. He can create so much by himself. Neil Zamba, beautiful mind, right? But if you put all of our minds in one room and we're coming with the intention of serving one another, Neil can say, I am having this major issue in my business. Matt, Eric, and myself, we can work on Neil. It's completely different from any kind of coaching. It is complete collaboration and it's everybody focused on that one person. And so those meetings happen virtually. They also happen in person. and then combined, we have 60 members that service 36,500 dental practices across the country. And so whenever you're working with a practice and and ultimately they trust you, you've delivered to them, you become the biggest referral partner ever. right. So we refer each other business and we collaborate on things. We're here to make the dental industry better as founders, and we're serving as far as costs. The cost is three thousand dollars per month, and the minimum time in backstage is 12 months. Now I can tell you since we started four and a half years ago, we actually have had 74 members in total. We have 60 right now. It's sticky, it works. Some people get Different things. Some people, they get the community. You know, being a an entrepreneur can be an absolute lonely island. So you get the community and and that's what people need. They don't want to be on a lonely island anymore. Other people, I'm gonna tell you what they get. They get to bend time. So what you can accomplish in 10 years with a bunch of smart entrepreneurs that are serving dentists, instead of 10 years, now it only takes you two years to accomplish the same goal. So that's bending time, right? And the last thing that you get is R O I. That's that's actually our last focus instead of our first focus. It's instead called R O L, right? But you can get ROI. How do you get ROI? Well, you refer business back and forth to each other. How do you get return on life? It's from being around Bright Mind. So the ROI absolutely happens as well. which is what Backstage does entail, but it's not the primary purpose for being in backstage. So combined with dental pitch brokerage and backstage, I really have an opportunity for everybody to come and get help and to be serviced. and once again, Backstage is not for dentists unless the dentist has a product, a service, or a software. Yeah. And then it's basically you you have to attend one Zoom meeting a month. You can pick what kind of pod you want to be in or or or special interest mastermind. But there is a time commitment. It's about, you know, an hour a month. And then, you know, We pretty much require everybody to, you know, come to one one live event a year. But they're the they're the most fun, awesome times I have all year. It's it's absolutely incredible. so so thanks for sharing that. if someone wanted to apply to get into backstage, how do they do that? Yeah, I would say just to reach out to me personally. you can reach me at Elijah at dentalpitchbrokerage dot com or Elijah at Backstage Dentistry dot com. And I interview you. I I interview you personally to make sure that you're a right fit. You have to fit those core values. You have to be able to afford you know, three thousand dollars a month. And you also can't be time poor. What does time poor mean? It means you can't show up to anything, right? You have to be able to put the time in and to meet the people and to build those relationships. but you you reach out to me and I'm happy to explain more in more detail and tell you what it's all about. But there's also one last thing. That that Backstage is is literally about to launch. And I'm very excited for it. and that thing is called DSOpricing.com. Okay. And d to make it very easy for everybody. First off, the name speaks for itself. Thank you, Eric. I appreciate you. It was gonna be called something completely different, and it was gonna need a whole bunch of explanation, but I think it is exactly what it is. It's dsopricing.com. So If you're a private practice or a small group and you're wanting to have amazing pricing, kind of like our buddy Pat Bauer gets or something like that, right? With a huge group, well, DSO Pricing.com is the answer. Because we service 36,500 locations, we're we've actually able to negotiate extremely great pricing. Now, here's a really cool thing. In the mastermind, we have distributors, we have you know, we have labs, we have consultants, we have marketing agents. So we have all these types of businesses and they offer a massive discount as if you're a large DSO. And so that's very straightforward. That's exactly what it is. And by the way, we are creating study clubs throughout the entire country to provide high level continuing educations with amazing speakers as well. And so DSO Pricing.com is new. It is the newest GPO and I'm extremely proud to say that it happened from all of the entrepreneurs in the mastermind of backstage. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna hop in. You know, Oak Dental has about eighty offices right now. And even with eighty offices, like when we're talking to vendors, we don't really get much of a discount or even any type of discount. Really we don't. You know, like Heartland that has over two thousand offices, they get massive discounts on products, services, and technologies that they use in in their organization. But you know, if you've got two one one practice or five or ten or thirty or a hundred, you can't even come close to the type of discounts that you know massive, massive DSOs get. So and it it all has a huge impact. And the great thing about DSO pricing is as Elijah said, the vendors that are in there, you know, are in 36,000 dental offices. So the the discounts that you can get by being part of this new GPO and I'm super excited to start utilizing some of those for my D. So those discounts are huge and it it adds up in a very, very meaningful way. I mean, even if you can get another ten or twenty percent off on the stuff that you're already buying, that adds up to huge dollars, you know, just on an annual basis. But then when you multiply that by an EBA to multiple when you sell, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine. I mean, you're talking about huge numbers when you when you decide you want to exit. So I'm super, super excited about that. Cause even at my DSO, we're priced out from from getting these type of GPO pricing model. So I'm really glad that you started that and I'm excited to start utilizing it for for Oak Dental. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll never forget sitting down with Eric. Eric and I spent an entire day together on a whiteboard and I w when he when he gave me this truce bomb. It was all I needed for the entire day. I don't know what he got out of me, but I know what I got out of him. That's for sure. he said, Elijah, it's the name. Don't have it that name. That and I'm not gonna say the name because I'm not putting that name out there, but the name means nothing. You're gonna have to go through this full explanation of this is because backstage got these discounts together and la. Just make the name exactly what it is. And so, you know, shortly after, I'm like, my goodness. Dso pricing.com. There's no way this is available as a domain. Sure enough, it was available and I bought every single one of them. And I actually bought VSOPric.com as well. that's veterinary support organization. But I I I I bought it. So Eric, thank you so much for giving me the idea to change the name. You didn't tell me the name, but you said change that one. You know what this reminds me of? you know, when if you ever watch the movie about Facebook. Mark Zuckerberg was was gonna he had been calling it the Facebook. And then somebody out in Silicon Valley said, get rid of the the, just call it Facebook. And, you know, it what what what is that worth? I mean, it was it was one of you know, Zuckerberg says that was probably the most important decision that Zuckerberg made you know, regarding the success and trajectory of Facebook. So it's interesting how how how stuff like that you know can impact a company's future. But that's really great, man. I mean, this is exciting, exciting stuff. Thank you. I I appreciate it. It's exciting and it's a way that we can serve everybody, right? That we can I like to ask everybody this, even though I already know the answer, but for dentists that are listening that own their own practice and at some point, you know, are planning on selling the practice, because it for most dentists, the most valuable asset that they own is their dental practice or dental group. It really is. But if you could if you could suggest maybe the top three things that a dentist should be focused on, like laser focused on to ensure the probability of a high value exit, what would those three those three things be? They might be KPIs or something else, but I'd love your opinion on that. I got it. The the fur the first thing is is your EBITDA margin over everything. Be very c be sell ready. And very concentrated on having a strong e-bid margin. That's the first thing. The second thing is be focused on your team. we we're in a world of that we have a people problem. treat your team well. Culture does matter. Culture is very important. Turnover stinks. one of the questions that you'll be asked is how long has your team been with you? And if it's a complete revolving door, that's like a very scary moment for the buyer. So Focus heavily on your team culture. you know, take them on a trip, you know, you know, tell them that you appreciate them. By the way, that trip is called an add back to your EBITDA. So it's not going to hurt you if you're going to sell. Okay. But, but show them that you appreciate them. you know, listen closely to this. I have a massive Facebook group. I have multiple. one is 26,000 members, another one is 15,000 members. And when I ask the team members what is their love language, a lot of them don't say money. a lot of them, what they will and a lot of them won't say gifts, a lot of them won't say acts of service. What they will say repeatedly, a large majority, is being appreciated. The the words go so far simply saying, like, I appreciate you, right? Thank you for being you. Thank you for showing up at work today. You know, I appreciate you. You stay to out after an additional 10 minutes. No, I see you. I see what you do. I appreciate you go so far. And that's that's the second thing. And the third thing, and I want you all to listen very closely to this. And I have this conversation daily. Please make sure that you're in a space that has five or more operatories, preferably more. But there's a lot of dentists that are high producers and they are stuck. They're calling me miserable. They're at the end of their their road. And they're they only have three or four chairs, but they're going rah-rah about how much of a high producer that they are. It doesn't matter. You've got yourself in a not sellable seat, right? Where where you're way too big for a private practice doctor to s to to buy you and you don't have enough room to expand. So please focus on getting six, seven, eight or more five works. Stop getting stop signing these long term leases. with four operatories. I literally have a call today with an endodontist after we get off of our podcast discussing what she's going to do. They have and she has a a a practice that's over five million with four operatories. you just signed a lease. Now we got to figure out like how are we going to figure out that situation? It's it's a terrible thing that dentists don't know. I know it because I'm on the ground and I'm selling practices and you keep buying these practices that are too small. At least make them plumb. You don't have to build them out. Make them plumb for as many operatories as you can. That's my third and final thing for the dentist. Yeah, those are great. I'm gonna add something else too. And I think a la I think Elijah will concur. For the love of God, don't wait until you're totally burned out to decide to sell your practice. Because every single buyer is gonna want you if they're gonna pay you millions and millions of dollars for your practice, every buyer's going to ask you it provided you're in the chair. If you're if you're in the chair, not talking about an just an owner operator where you're not practicing dentistry. But if you are contributing to the production in a meaningful way at your dental practice, you you're gonna be asked to stay on at least three years by whoever buys you. Nobody's gonna pay you millions of dollars and then let you just walk away. It's not gonna happen. And Elijah and I see this time and time again. A doctor has a very successful practice. They are the super producer at their office. They hold the team together. The the people that work there are there because of that dentist that owns a practice. And the dentist says, I am burned out. I hate dentistry now. I literally hate going to work. I want to sell my practice and leave immediately. Well, get unfortunately if if if you get to that point, your pool of buyers goes almost to zero. And if you're lucky enough to find one, they're gonna pay you like rock bottom for your practice. So Please, your most valuable asset is your dental practice or your dental group. Please be prepared to put it up for sale at least four years before you're ready to leave. Cause it might take from the time you sign with a broker and get through the whole due diligence and get it sold, that might take it could take a year. And then you need at least three more years of gas in the tank where you're still positive and still enthusiastic about coming to work to maximize your exit value. Any th any comments on that, Elijah? Yeah, I do have a comment. First off, you are right. That is one of the first slides. By the way, for anybody watching this, I just recorded an insane webinar today. That's actually why I'm a little bit more dressed up than normal. but I I I just recorded an a webinar that's an hour and a half of all gold, literally all gold. And in there I say three to five years. Matt said four. We're always in the same page. I actually would even take it a step further and say, plan on staying five years, right? That's what a lot of people are wanting. Or Plan on wiggling yourself out of the practice and bringing in associates that that will work for you so you can stop working and work less and less and just be the the operator. That also makes more sense. And and Eric, I know you're the expert on making that happen, but there's there's so much gold and so many things to talk about. We could sit here and all give three or four or five takeaways and we would make people millions of dollars and save people a ton of headache and and sadness. Let me just one last thing. Please. Please stop expecting to be paid 100% of the value of your business cash at close. It's not happening. It's not the market for a DSO transaction, a group transaction. And for the a lot of you are watching this, you have big practices. People are not paying that. They're paying 51%, 60%, max 70% is what you're getting up front. So you cannot come into a deal thinking you're going to get more. It's not happening. And I'm protecting you by telling you this so you don't get your hopes up. Count your chips, spend your money when it's simply not happening. And please get a quality of earnings light. Call Eric up. He can help you get the Q of V done. Do not try to avoid that. It is the best money and the smallest money that you can do to protect your empire. So stop trying to get around it. Do it. Or you won't be working with us, anyways. Because we want what's best for you and we want to represent you well and we want to make sure that we also keep our reputation for the buyers. Yeah. I I love real you know, real estate's, you know, my passion. I love it. And you know, one of the analogies I like to use is that if you're a home builder and you're building a spec house, meaning you're gonna put it up for sale after you finish building it, it's absolutely critical to know what the market is. Where you're building the house, meaning what are the most popular types of homes? How many square feet is the most popular home? What are the construction materials? What are the interior finishes? How big is the garage? Do people in that marketplace want a swimming pool or not a swimming pool? Etc. So if you're a like a spec builder in the real estate space, you better know the market and know what the buyers want before you design the home and before you build it. Like the the worst mistake you can make in real estate is say, I'm gonna build a house that I love. Well, guess what? You're not the buyer. And you may love that house, but you need to find out what the what type of house the buyers in that area love. Even if you don't love that house, the design of it or or or the, you know, the shape or the layout. But if if if if that's what the buyers are gonna want and pay the most money for, you build the house and you design it for the buyer, the end use buyer, not what you prefer. You might love like you might love shag carpet and wallpaper. and dim lighting and like, you know, you know, 15 foot ceilings, whatever. Well, if the buyers don't want that, what good is it? It's the same thing in dentistry. And I will tell you, you know, Elijah does know Elijah knows as as well as anybody what the ideal dental practice or group looks like for a buyer. And Elijah can advise you on that. And you know, sometimes it's just some minor tweaks. I mean it's some minor tweaks that you can make. That will have an impact of extra millions of dollars in your pocket when you sell. And what Elijah was talking about is just for clarity, if you sold your dental practice for 10 million, the buyer's gonna probably give you six to seven million cash at closing. And the remaining three million, it's called an earnout. Like you've got to keep your collections at least where they were when you when the buyer bought your practice for three years in a row. So you get seven million at closing. The buyer will hold back three million as long as your collections stay where they were or go up. After one year you get another million. After the second year, you get the second million. After the third year, you get the third million. But you're not getting the full mo ten million all at once. You'll get it, but not all at once. Yes? Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Well, I think I think I I'd I'd I'd just say, you know, make sure you're getting advice early and often. I think one of the conversations you and I had, we were saying, you know, It it's so important to know your goals. If you're gonna need, depending on the income you want at some point, you need to know what that goal is because you might think three million dollars in account's gonna get you there, but you might need seven million or whatever the number is. So if you're waiting until the last minute and then you go to sale and you say, that's not gonna get me through what I need, you don't have time. So it's another thing. And so I would say early and often, the people that if you think you don't need to sell right now or you're not even anticipating it, still a great time to go talk to Elijah and his team. Because that's when you need to talk to somebody. Talk to somebody when you don't need to sell, when you have no desire to sell right now, also, because I think some people think, well, I'll just wait until I'm there and then I'll have the conversation. If you're sitting there and you're young and ambitious and you're doing great and you don't even plan on selling the next five years or ten years, still go talk to them because you need to be making moves. I just had a doctor sell their practice who's I got her completely out of clinical dentistry. She'll have been producing for two, three years. She sold the practice and now she doesn't have to Be a producer. So as a you know, I want to reiterate that's what Matt was saying. So talk early, talk often, go get, you know, get in front of people like Elijah, get in front of Dental Pitch, have those conversations. And I want to last to say this: I believe that it's that we should create an infinite life, the ability to to impact people way after we've left this earth. We'll never even know the people we've impacted. But I wouldn't be here in this conversation if it wasn't for you, Elijah. And I know so many other people wouldn't be where they are if if you had not had a conversation, connected them, brought people together, and and you've impacted so many people in this community that nobody will even know that you had the influence of and you continue to do that. and and you and I know that you're you all do that. That's why you get so excited. I think anyone listening to this needs to get to know you. If you don't know Elijah, meet him, connect with him, and get part of Backstage. Learn about Jet Backstage, learn about DSO pricing, learn about dental pitch. You're doing just awesome, amazing things. I'm proud to call you a friend, a colleague. And I'm thankful for what you do in this industry, my friend. Thank you for being here. Thank you. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you all. And yeah, I was I'm happy to connect. I love connecting. That's what I do. I appreciate it. And and I'll go ahead and just drop by this is a first for many, by the way. There's many firsts on this podcast. I'm gonna give out for the first time my personal cell phone number. Okay. my personal cell phone number is just kidding. Yeah, I'm not giving out my personal cell phone number. My email is Elijah Dental Pitch Brokerage dot com. And it and if you want to hear more pearls, like I said, we just recorded an insane webinar where I'm literally dropping millions of dollars in your pocket. I probably should call it like the million dollar webinar because that's exactly what it is, and the preparation webinar because you need to be educated. I don't care if you use us or not. Here's what I do care that you make a really good educated decision at the right time. So go ahead and email me at Elijah at dental pitchbrokerage.com and email say hey I heard your podcasts and with the dental mentors and I would love to get the webinar and I will shoot you a link over To that webinar and we may even add some C E to it if you're short on your C E. but I appreciate being here. I appreciate the the the collaboration. I appreciate all of you and the humans that you are. And I'm excited to go serve the industry. I'm pumped up and this is my last call today, seven PM baby. All right. Well, it's been great having you here, and I'm looking to have looking forward to having a nice hamburger and Caesar salad for dinner. All right. So yeah. Thank you everybody for listening today. It's always been a pleasure. And we'll see you next time on Dental Mentors. Have a great day. Thank you, Elijah. Thank you guys. If you enjoyed today's video, we'd love to invite you to join the Dental Mentors Facebook group. The group is completely free, but it is private at invite only. The group is for practice owners, dentists, specialists, and dental CEOs. If that's you, we'd love to see you inside. As part of Dental Mentors, you're gonna have Direct access to the brightest minds in dentistry and the brightest mentors and some of the greatest CEOs that have ever worked in the dental space. You're going to learn all the best practices that you're going to need to optimize the profitability of your practices, to properly scale your practices, and to achieve a high value exit. You're also going to learn the closely guarded secrets that the rich and wealthy use for asset protection. And the access to private investments and investment strategies that will allow you and your family to create generational wealth. Inside the group, you'll also be able to speak directly with today's guest and all of the guests on the Dental Mentors podcast. You'll be able to ask them questions specific to your practice or group and get the specific answers that you need for that next big breakthrough. Speaking of exclusive, one of the great things we're gonna do at Dental Mentors is our events. In these events, what we've done is bring together the industry's top experts, people that you want to be in a room with. These are very curated, exclusive rooms just for the best of the best and the people inside of the dental mentors community. And I promise you, you're not going to want to miss these events. If you'd like to apply to the group, click the link below and we'll see you inside. And remember, it's completely free to join.