Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 561 | The review playbook: Boosting B2B revenue and trust

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Ep. 561 | The review playbook: Boosting B2B revenue and trust · The Prompt

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This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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pressing B2B go to market challenges.
0:07
Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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Hello everyone, and welcome back to the latest in the
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award-winning on Based podcast series.
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I'm your host, Paul Gibson. We're always up for different
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subjects to discuss, so I'm excited that today I'm talking
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with Michelle Reed, who Head of Marketing for Benelux and Sweden
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at Trustpilot. She's with us today to discuss a
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different topic, turning reviews into revenue boosting
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strategies. Michelle, I'm excited to get
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into this with you. Thanks very much for coming on
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the show. Thanks so much for inviting me,
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it's so lovely to have a chat with you today.
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Excellent. That should be a good one.
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So before we get into the the topic of the today's podcast, I
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always like to start with, if you're OK, Michelle, just a, a
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bit of a background, your walk through how you came to where
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you are today, your journey and and a little bit about your
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current role. Sure.
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So actually I come from a interesting background.
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I I would say because I actually studied psychology, so I'm not
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from a very standard business or marketing background originally,
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but I really love where I am today because obviously having a
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psychology background, I have such a huge interest in things
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like nudging. So how can you actually change
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people's behaviours and these kind of things?
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So I'm very happy being a trustpilot where there's just
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like a huge part of psychology involved as well for, for our
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end users. So I, I really like that where
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I'm coming from is, is the psychology.
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But then I kind of rolled into talent acquisition first and
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then into marketing. And I've worked in the in the B
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to C world and then set up B to B as well for from a previous
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company and kind of rolled into B to B that way.
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So I've been a responsible in my previous rolls off for like
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multiple countries within Europe, and now I'm a bit more
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specialized and more B to B focused rather than only B to C
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as well. So, yeah, very happy to be where
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I am today, Yeah. And as an interview backgrounds,
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having those different, you know, a lot of people do
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marketing all their life or sales all their life.
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So to have those different things in in your kit bag, as
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they say is really helpful as I'm sure as you're going through
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your career. So, so as we kick off the topic
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today, if we think about, as you said, turning reviews into
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revenue boosting strategies, what do you think are the most
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common gaps that businesses face when they're looking at those
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customer views and thinking, right, how do I put that into
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actionable CRO insights? And can you give some tips on
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how they can address those gaps? Absolutely.
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So I think especially for for B to B, like we still very much
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like under appreciate reviews as marketers in B to B.
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Like we are very often like going towards, I would say more
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like the case study Rd. which is a really great road to go to.
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And it's also something that I do personally myself, but also
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as someone who's actually buying from B to B from other tech
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companies, from events, from well, whatever.
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Basically, it is actually something that you miss like
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thing that reviews offer very often is like authentic
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experience. It's not something that
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businesses nailed down. They have authenticity.
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They also have like the realness, like the real life
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posting of the reviews, like these kind of things is
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something that in B to B, like we always underestimate that you
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still have the emotion and you still have the person behind the
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screen basically that needs to feel this bond and the trust to
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actually, you know, push you internally and sell it to other
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stakeholders and and actually feel like, OK, this is actually
3:43
going to be worth it. And having that proof like those
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numbers in as well, actually like the number of reviews, for
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example, is such a big boost of confidence for other
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stakeholders, which is very much under underappreciated.
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So I would say for B2B itself, actually starting with reviews
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is very often where where it's still lacking.
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And then definitely also like actually like the the learning
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and the growing with the reviews.
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So obviously you want to use the reviews within your customer
4:13
journey afterwards to really optimize like add it near like
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Ctas. So to move it for further along,
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kind of see where's the the drop off, see how you can improve
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those key points on the website to actually, you know, push the
4:28
user forward in their journey, but also to improve your
4:31
business a lot by learning from the reviews.
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So if there are things that your business isn't doing, y'all,
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maybe the support isn't going well to actually tackle that.
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Whereas very often we see that B2B businesses are using, for
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example, MPs scores, which are a bit more internal, but they're
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not as detailed as a lot of the reviews can be.
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They don't have that much depth into the content.
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So actually really learning from that feedback and asking
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everybody for the feedback is really going to help drive your
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business processes as well as the marketing in the end.
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Yeah, we use surveys and and MPs scores and I'll multitude of
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things because without that, you know, you even things like
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product development, you'd be guessing what you think is the
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the next thing to build. But often it's not what the
5:16
customer wants. So getting their feedback can be
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critical for not just the services you offer, but also the
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products you you build for the future.
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It really is like it's so fun because we're actually seeing so
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many businesses apply reviews or the feedback from the reviews
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and in such unique situations. Like I recently spoke with a
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parking company and they were using it to optimize scheduling
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times for their employees, which is not something I would ever
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think of. But you know, actually
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optimizing those processes is just crucial for the best
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possible experience as well for the customer, which is in the
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end what will help you sell to others as well.
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Yeah, we're all doing right. We want to keep our customers
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happy. It's it's very expensive wing a
5:58
customer. So we need to make sure that
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we're helping them when we go. We need to keep them if we can.
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So as you should you look back on your, your experience over
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the last few years, is there a framework you could use to out,
6:12
you know, outlining how to uncover and prioritise customer
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feedback? You know, there's trends that
6:17
that can directly impact your, your conversion rates, things
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like that. Yeah, definitely.
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So it's so interesting, but there's so many.
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I just actually had a conversation earlier today with
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Acro testing company and we were talking about this as well.
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We were landing on a couple of different things, which I find
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really interesting. So we of course like if we're
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talking a bit more in marketing, we're actually talking a lot
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about the different awareness stages.
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And something that I noticed is like when people are a bit more
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in the top funnel of the awareness, for example, they're
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really looking for, is there quality?
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Is there trust as a general term?
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So they're looking for like independent sources of, of
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trust, but they're also looking for numbers like how many
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reviews have there already been, how many people have bought
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this, how many people have wanted to sell or buy and
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actually also gave it a high score.
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So I think that's like a bit more of a general one where as
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if you actually go further down the funnel and we even look at
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like, for example, the, the retargeting aspect, this is
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where we actually see reviews bring so much value and where I
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think like it's still underutilized a lot.
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So if you're thinking about retargeting, think about ads.
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How can you incorporate reviews, possibly even quotes in some of
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your ads? How can you use it?
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And maybe some of your retargeting emails, like for
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something I, I very much always is think is really, really
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interesting to think about is how is B to C doing it?
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Because very often B to C has already done thousands of tests
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because they have the volume. So it is really smart to have a
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look at what are they as well like doing in that section.
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Because often it is something that can be super relevant to do
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as well in B to B. And especially with like quotes
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and actually them bringing like the qualitative content from the
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quotes later on will also resonate with different
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stakeholders, for example. So it's, it's very much down to
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funnel thinking as well, which I think is, is where you need to
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be, which channels work where, which type of review content do
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you want to add there? Another thing we were talking
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about was, and this was quite new for me Even so I'm sharing
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this with you, I think as one of the first ones was actually the
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difference between emotional parts of, of reviews versus
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functional content in reviews. So as I mentioned earlier, like
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a review is a piece that's generated by a user, it's user
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generated content. So there's often an an emotional
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piece, but if your industry matches that, that's lovely.
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If you are maybe a bit more in AB to B section and people are
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also looking for the maybe practicalities, then it's also
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nice to see if the review is actually mentioning those
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practicalities and what the effect was of that.
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So also asking the right questions to your reviewers or
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asking them in the right moments in the journey can also bring
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you such different feedback that you can then also use again in
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in the journey. Yeah, yourself to showcase.
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Yeah. Yeah, really important.
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And I think that that emotional side is again often overlooked,
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but the combination of the two, especially I suppose with your
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psychological background, that's, that is very interesting
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for yourself as well. But we're seeing more and more
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it's those customer stories, it's the communities, it's the
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reviews that that people are using salespeople.
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I mean, I'm a sales guy, so I can say this aren't always
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trusted. They're going to say yes when
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maybe the answer is no and things like that.
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So having having that coming from the community and, and
9:55
customers is, is so valuable. And we see that more and more as
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as time goes on. Yeah, we definitely see that.
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And it's funny that you say that because definitely sales guys
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maybe are a bit less trusted, but even like just the product
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description or the company description is also not as
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trusted as words from a peer. So even in that aspect, it can
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already add so much. Yeah, absolutely.
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So I'm, I'm assuming already the listeners are getting some
10:20
interest here and and maybe thinking about, you know, trying
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to incorporate that in. So how would you suggest a
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businesses can get started designing process to to
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incorporate some of this review data into maybe optimizing their
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own sales and marketing funnels? Yeah, that's a great question.
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So something that I would definitely recommend is, First
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off, obviously you want to build some volume.
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So the most important thing at that moment is, is to start with
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automating your reviews. So making sure that it's part of
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of your tech stack and make sure that you find the tool that has
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like the correct integration options so you can start easily
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and yeah, get the volume basically.
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I think after that you hopefully fix stuff.
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Hopefully your business already doing great and and your scores
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are great as well when you start collecting.
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But it is possible you might need to actually first fix some
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things like we see it very often.
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It can be in regards to service, it can be in regards to
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something logistical and make sure that you pinpoint those and
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fix them first. And then you can actually use it
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as well in your in your customer journeys.
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I would say we see best results when scores are a minimum of
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3.5, which is already a bit lower.
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So it is on the lower end, but I would definitely not promote if
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you're lower than that. And funnily enough, we actually
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also see that consumers, they do want to see some faults with
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your business. So it should not be a perfect
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five out of five all the time. It can definitely be a 4.2 or a
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3.8 or a 3.9 or 4 or 4.1 as long as you also, you know, treat the
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consumers in a in a good way or the buyers in a good way and
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show that as well. So already from I would say 3.5,
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probably a bit higher, you can definitely already start to to
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show some positive results. So yeah, wait for that.
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It's like I think it's up 1. Absolutely.
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And do you see lots of cases where you're doing these
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reviews, you see that then maybe there's a 3.5 and then 369
12:36
months later you do the review again and that's gone up to a
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4.2 or 4.3. So you can see that having that
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review allowed you to the data, gave you the insight you needed
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to change something or improve something.
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And then and then. The results speak for
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themselves. Exactly.
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So for example, like you can learn a lot from your reviews,
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like we for example, have tons of AI analytics in our back end
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that people use or businesses use to, to analyze their
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reviews. But things to think about or
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like topic analysis. So do you actually like which
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topics are are giving a positive sentiment?
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Which ones are giving it a more negative sentiment?
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Where do you need to look into actually optimizing or which
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things are you already doing well that maybe you can actually
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use in your marketing comms more?
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So I think that's also something that people underestimate.
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I have one example actually of a business.
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They did 2 super interesting things within their.
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So this is actually AB to C business, but I'm still going to
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mention this example because I think it's very inspiring.
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One of the things that they did was they really kept tabs on
13:45
width or per topic am I seeing? So they were tagging reviews
13:50
based on topics and then they've noticed that their logistics had
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like 30% like negative lower score than their average.
14:02
They tackled their logistical process and then the quarter
14:05
after that went up and it became a good average.
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So that's really good, like really to listen to that
14:12
feedback. But another point which I think
14:15
is very interesting as well, was actually that they, because they
14:19
were tagging everything, they also found that in their case,
14:23
free samples were mentioned in tons of positive reviews and it
14:29
actually scored 10% higher. So what they did after noticing
14:34
that is they started implementing free samples in all
14:38
of their communication. So they've updated their landing
14:41
pages to include, we're going to send a free sample because they
14:45
did that already, but they just never mentioned it.
14:47
So they updated it to say we're going to send you a free sample
14:51
as well. They added it to a lot of their
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marketing emails. They actually updated like a lot
14:56
of these different channels to include free sample and they
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notice that their lifetime value increase doing that.
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That's powerful and it proves that this stuff works and
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interesting. Maybe a side question really,
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but do you know this? Different personas respond
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differently or whenever we put this out to the sales
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department, don't respond or they respond more negatively.
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Is there anything like that that you see any patterns around?
15:20
Yeah, that's a good question. So we also were talking about
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you have this system in your brain where you're either very
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consciously making a decision or very unconsciously making a
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decision. In the unconscious part, you're
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always looking for proof points, also emotional proof, etcetera.
15:43
In the very conscious parts, you actually really want to read
15:47
everything. So I don't know if I'm
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explaining this correctly, but I think what you really need to do
15:53
is have these pieces of of the proof points for people who
15:59
actually want to read it at the moment.
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So are very consciously making a decision, actually show that
16:05
qualitative data. So actually show the numbers,
16:08
but also show the quotes and show like what scenarios people
16:13
can expect. So that's like kind of a very
16:16
conscious decision. You can send more info because
16:19
people really want to make a good, they really want to weigh
16:21
it's well. On the other hand, and this also
16:25
is by the way, a good thing. If you, for example, have a good
16:28
score on a public platform, that is also something you can
16:31
leverage for the end customer because you can show, especially
16:35
if you know that your competitor does not have that, for example,
16:38
that is also something you can leverage.
16:40
If you prompted in your messaging, you can say, hey, our
16:44
trust score is also really good. Not sure if you already saw
16:46
that. And then they can make their own
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connection in their mind. Oh, let me check the competitors
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trust score, for example, and see that as maybe not as great.
16:55
So that's a bit more of the conscious 1.
16:57
Whereas in the other one, you maybe want to think a bit more
17:00
about logos, adding the numbers, adding that it's like in an
17:07
unbiased source like these kind of things where it's a bit more
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something people glance over because it's unconscious.
17:15
So I think very often if we're thinking about the sales
17:19
process, probably in the beginning you're focusing a
17:22
little bit more on the logos etcetera, which can like we for
17:26
example, if we're actually talking cells itself, we also
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see people adding like their social proof in their autograph,
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right. So that's already like a very
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smart way to include like that unconscious parts of social
17:40
proof. Whereas later on you will then
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include more of the of the quotes, include more of the
17:47
examples, etcetera. So I think that's something to
17:50
consider in there. Yeah, definitely.
17:53
You mentioned qualitative, and I mean quantitative.
17:56
However you say it inside, how would you or do you have any
18:00
best practices around balancing both of those together to help
18:04
you straight check your strategies going forward?
18:06
Yeah, it depends very much on channels as well as where people
18:12
are in the funnel. So as I mentioned very often in
18:15
the more top of the funnel, people are looking more for a
18:19
number and just a social proof stamp kind of.
18:24
So in that section, I would actually like if, if we're
18:27
talking about like ads that are going out to a larger public
18:30
etcetera. Whereas if we're actually going
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very far down the funnel, it's more like the qualitative.
18:36
And the difference that I mean is like in the beginning people
18:39
want to know is this something that's reliable?
18:43
So they're just looking for the number basically, right, The
18:46
stars, the number of people that reviewed, it's very similar to
18:50
kind of when you're buying a product as well, you will look
18:53
at the product, how many people have bought it, how many people
18:56
have reviewed it. It's a very similar process in
18:59
your mind. I would say when you're looking
19:01
into the business part, like you're looking into what is this
19:05
service, how is that service? Whereas afterwards, but mainly
19:10
you're looking into what is the service.
19:11
Even so, people are not even always looking into the social
19:15
proof on that more qualitative conscious level, if I can say it
19:20
that way, because that's where they're actually going to like
19:24
almost be tipped over and want to just get that extra
19:27
reassurance or those extra examples of, you know, maybe a
19:31
similar scenario that they are in.
19:32
Maybe there's a well, I know people will necessarily mention
19:35
this in a review, but maybe there has been a reorg and or
19:38
just a platform change and, and that this tool really helped
19:42
them in guiding there or like those scenarios, not something
19:45
that the company will say themselves, but the user will.
19:48
So finding those different scenarios, maybe the scenarios
19:51
that matches your prospects could be quite interesting as
19:53
well, which is difficult to find in cases because cases take a
19:56
lot of time to create and are not always as as targeted.
20:01
So that's quite an interesting way as well to look at it.
20:03
Yeah. And it's very interesting
20:05
because. We have, you know, lots of
20:07
people that we've worked over the years that by, you know, not
20:10
going to sell demand based on this podcast, but by
20:12
neutralizing some of the place that we have, they've got
20:15
promoted, their job's been secure and they've been able to
20:17
build teams out or whatever. And you never think of building
20:20
a review that says, how did it help you personally in your
20:23
career? But actually that's that's a
20:25
really important one because in our space, there's lots of, if,
20:29
if any ever project budgets come under pressure, it's always
20:32
marketing and sales that are the ones that get cut.
20:36
And so if we put stories that say, however, if you try this
20:38
approach, we've actually seen that our budgets have increased
20:41
or we've got promoted and our job's insecure, that's an area
20:44
potentially that reviews could be really valuable, I think.
20:47
It's definitely a very interesting approach and I think
20:49
that's also maybe one point that I mentioned earlier.
20:52
Like it also depends on that point in the journey where you
20:56
want to ask like your end user or yeah, like the user who has
21:01
already used to like which information do you want to get
21:05
from them? Basically, as you said, like if
21:07
you want to, you know, have someone in the team who just
21:10
left, for example, how are you going to put that in the system?
21:13
Possibly you still have the their private e-mail and you can
21:17
send them like maybe 2-3 months after like an automated e-mail
21:20
saying, hey, how did we actually help develop your career?
21:23
Could just leave us a review. And that's a completely
21:26
different story than maybe one day after or maybe if they're
21:31
still in the middle of, of working in your in the company,
21:34
for example. So yeah, it also depends so much
21:37
on when you ask someone something which which answer are
21:41
you going. To get timing is.
21:42
Everything right, Yeah, yeah, timing is everything.
21:45
So really important to test with timing for sure as well.
21:47
Yeah, absolutely. So as you as you look at, you
21:50
know, projects you've been involved in, is there a playbook
21:54
or an example you could share that that talks about aligning,
21:57
you know, review driven insights with measurable outcomes?
22:00
So maybe that's increased engagement or reducing drop offs
22:03
or something like that? Yeah.
22:05
So I think always the the first part you want to do is check in
22:11
your own marketing strategy as a business, what are you lacking?
22:15
What is something that you need? And then you can find the KPIs
22:20
with that to match if reviews are the solution there, for
22:24
example, something that we have as quite a big benefit is
22:30
there's also like a lot of SEO value in Trustpilot
22:34
specifically. So this is really Trustpilot
22:36
specific. But if you, for example, want to
22:38
get higher in Google, let's say like now obviously with AI stuff
22:43
is going to change. So that's going to be very
22:44
interesting as well to see how all of that will develop.
22:47
But if your goal is also to work on your SEO, reviews can be a
22:52
super important part in that because it is a constant flow of
22:57
fresh content about your website, possibly mentioning the
23:01
product, possibly mentioning a lot of other valuable points
23:05
like keywords that other people are going to search for.
23:08
So SEO is, for example, one point that can be quite
23:11
increased, but that's a completely different KPI that
23:15
maybe you want to look into rather than if you're doing or
23:20
optimizing your ads, for example.
23:22
So obviously if you're optimizing your ads, you're
23:25
going to look into how much engagement, how much click
23:28
through rate, but also how many conversions am I getting from
23:30
this ad? If you're looking off the
23:32
website, you're going to look into how many people are moving
23:36
forward in the journey. Like are they clicking on the
23:38
next page? Are they adding something to the
23:41
cart? Are they booking in that call
23:43
like these next steps? Are they actually taking them?
23:46
And how can you utilize reviews to optimize it?
23:51
I've seen, for example, one time that a business was using
23:55
reviews the same way on their desktop and mobile, and they
24:01
actually saw like on desktop, they kind of had like quite a
24:05
big chunk of the page was reviews.
24:08
So they added in like logo, stars, number of reviews, and it
24:13
was like quite bulky, which works really well on desktop,
24:18
but on mobile it's quite distracting.
24:20
So on mobile it worked a lot better to have a small like
24:25
social proof that was not distracting from the CTA.
24:28
So it's really difficult to say I have this great handbook
24:32
because it depends on how emotional is your value, your
24:37
product, how practical is your product?
24:40
It depends on the industry, it depends on the device.
24:44
So my best advice is to test which is a such a shit answer,
24:49
but that's the answer tested because from psychology
24:54
standpoint, we know it works, we know it has such a big effect,
24:59
but you need to find the way that it has the best effect for
25:01
you as well. Absolutely.
25:04
And testing all of these things is as you say is so important.
25:07
Now, I would imagine it's like all things you want to try
25:10
something new in the business, you've got to get buy in from
25:14
all sides. So how have you worked on how
25:16
would you recommend getting around internal resistance if
25:20
you're if you're pushing to try something maybe unconventional
25:23
like this? Yeah, that's a great one.
25:26
It depends so much also on the size of your business, on the
25:30
budgets that you have etcetera. I think reviews like some
25:35
businesses I know they use like the reviews as a measure to
25:40
uphold within their entire company.
25:43
So for them, this is the benchmark to see if their
25:47
business will continue doing well.
25:49
And they are like using the reviews to optimize our
25:53
services. They're using it to find
25:55
mistakes, maybe even compare like like one of the postal
25:59
services in the Netherlands for example.
26:01
They even analyze their reviews based on driver.
26:05
So they even have like an internal award for the best
26:09
driver based on the reviews that that driver received.
26:12
So they are making it like full on a customer centric approach
26:17
in their business. But I think then you need to
26:19
also have someone who's very passionate about it.
26:23
If your company is not already like that.
26:26
I think it's always easiest to find where you actually save,
26:33
save the most. So we have done some research
26:36
into companies and where they are actually saving when using
26:40
Trustpilot. So one of the points for
26:42
example, is escalations internally because the data is
26:46
public and people need to act because it is public, it's
26:49
saving. I think it was over a period of
26:51
three years, like 8000 hours of worth of escalations.
26:55
People on general saw around 20% more traffic, if I say that
26:59
correct, it was either 20 or 23, something like that.
27:03
But if you need to first start and it is very tricky within
27:07
your business, I would say it's great to have as part of the
27:11
marketing mix as kind of the first way in.
27:14
Because if you actually have good reviews, like we have
27:19
integrations with Google, so you can get like the ads or the
27:22
search the stars, sorry that you see in search for example.
27:26
But you can also use it in your advertisements as an add on.
27:29
So you can allocate some of your advertising budget to actually
27:33
optimize the ads you have and get more from there.
27:37
So I would probably go that route because marketing does
27:41
have that budget as well. And if you actually have and are
27:44
able to optimize the ads that you have and spend there and get
27:49
those better results, like that's worth so much.
27:51
And of course, on the main channel or often the main
27:54
channel on websites, if you can, that's where you can prove a lot
27:58
of it. And I think I mentioned it
28:00
earlier, but start with retargeting because that's where
28:03
you can often see the biggest impacts first.
28:06
If you also need to prove it internally, say try it out for a
28:09
year, test it out properly and then move from there.
28:13
And then start with all the learnings and all the data and
28:16
all of that as well. Yeah, absolutely.
28:19
And I think anyone listening who's not doing a review for
28:22
someone like Trustpilot, give it a go as as we said, because I
28:26
think otherwise you're guessing at what the mindset is of your
28:29
customers and prospects and and then you could go in completely
28:32
the wrong direction. So I think it's a really
28:34
valuable thing to do, yeah. And you can start for free as
28:38
well on Trustpilot, like we offer around 50 reviews for
28:42
free, so per month, like review invites.
28:45
So you can send it to 50 customers per month, which is
28:48
lovely for B2B businesses. If you then want to actually
28:52
implement on the website, etcetera, then it's going to be
28:55
a subscription, but you can start for free.
28:58
So why not try that first? Yeah, absolutely.
29:01
So AI, it's the top of everyone's mind, everyone's
29:04
talking about it. So from your perspective in your
29:06
space, what you're doing day-to-day, are you seeing any
29:10
change and what do you think the change could be in the future?
29:13
I think it's a very interesting question because it's going to
29:17
be such an impact in the way that people are are searching
29:21
and the way that people are receiving information as well.
29:26
We're also like becoming more and more AI proof.
29:29
So AI is trying to do kind of what Google was doing in the
29:34
past, but you still needed to do the research and click on all
29:37
the links. Now it's just already giving you
29:39
the summaries. It's already offering in a
29:43
solution often. So to be able to fall in those
29:47
solutions, you still need to have really good sales strategy.
29:51
So that's definitely something that I think we need to hold
29:53
into account. Like our quality of the content
29:56
that we produce needs to be very high to actually be able to, you
30:01
know, still be considered for, for these summaries.
30:06
We actually also started doing AI summaries ourselves on the
30:10
company pages. So consumers can even see like
30:13
the quick view of the businesses, because this is a
30:16
lot more what people are expecting already to just get
30:19
like the easiest bulk on info, but they're also looking for the
30:22
transparency. So where before, for example, AI
30:25
was just the text, this is it. Now people are like, OK, but is
30:30
that based on something we've already, we've all heard the
30:34
scenarios where lawyers accidentally referred to cases
30:37
that didn't exist or these kind of things.
30:39
So the transparency is also very important.
30:42
So as there's going to be so much more content, so much more
30:45
chance for fake stuff happening, actually being able to to verify
30:50
the content is going to be so important as well for the
30:53
consumer and to be able to, to showcase that trust.
30:57
And yeah, there's a lot of stuff with AI that we can talk about
31:01
because there's so much changing and in the marketing world, it
31:05
brings so many questions. Which strategy should you focus
31:08
on? What should you do?
31:10
I personally think a lot of it is content based, but also
31:14
focusing on different types of panels.
31:16
Like we have to be very creative with it and and get those
31:20
authoritative websites linking to us as well and being as
31:23
strong as we can as well in the base.
31:26
Well, also exploring alternative channels as well.
31:29
Yeah. It's an interesting new world
31:31
that we're going to see in marketing.
31:33
Yeah, it really is. And I think that transparent
31:35
thing we we shouldn't underestimate it.
31:38
I mean, in in my day-to-day, I have so many conversations with
31:41
sales leaders and STR leaders who are actually getting really
31:45
frustrated with the AI that it to your transparency comment.
31:48
It's, you know, they'll get an alert or a signal saying go
31:52
after that account because they're in market.
31:55
There's no insight, there's no reasoning behind it.
31:57
So they spend half their time chasing after, I always call
32:01
them wild goose chasers. They're not going to turn into
32:03
any business, but they're told to do it.
32:05
And eventually the sales people get fed up with it.
32:09
They stop looking at the signals altogether and then the sales
32:12
and marketing alignment falls down.
32:14
I make zero sense to me, and I think I like to term it AI
32:17
without the why. If you haven't got the why
32:20
behind the signal, ignore it because it's as good a chance as
32:24
any that it's going to be missed.
32:25
So I think you hit the nail on the head, whether with the
32:27
transparency there. I think so.
32:30
And I think that's really fun point that you're pointing out,
32:33
like the lead handling to cells and the signals and basing that
32:38
on AI that's it's very smart, but it can also be very tricky
32:42
because obviously it's you don't always know where the source is
32:46
from. We are actually, and this is a
32:49
little bit of a yeah, sneak preview.
32:51
I think it has already been announced.
32:54
But we're also looking into how can our data, for example, be
32:59
more considered as we know it's more of a trustworthy source.
33:04
So we're also like in in conversations there and seeing
33:07
how can we like our mission as a company is to be a universal
33:12
symbol of trust. So we want to be a place that
33:15
people know they can trust, but it also we want to, you know,
33:19
make sure that the Internet is a more safe place.
33:21
So we're also having these conversations to see how can our
33:25
data, for example, help that and how can we make sure that the
33:28
end consumer actually gets data that is trustworthy and gets
33:32
insights that is trustworthy. So that's very much on our mind
33:36
at Trustpilot and definitely something that we are working on
33:39
and very excited to, yeah, see where that's going to going to
33:42
head. The spelling point is our 360°
33:48
view of a customer and all their buying groups or whatever.
33:51
Having that review data in there would, you know, just enhance
33:55
your insight and your understanding of not just your
33:57
prospects, but your customers as well.
33:59
We import things like G2 and all that sort of stuff.
34:02
I think you're on to something there for sure.
34:04
So if you're not already talking to demand base about that, maybe
34:07
we should have a conversation off the record on that one about
34:12
so you you sound Michelle, like someone who who consumes lots of
34:15
content. So is there a particular book, A
34:18
blog or podcast, newsletters or things that you you regularly
34:23
watch or read that you think our listeners should should look out
34:26
for? Yes, so this podcast, I
34:31
personally, I really into a growth marketing.
34:36
I always think it's, it's very interesting to see where can you
34:39
take things to the next level. How can you test all the time
34:43
everybody's favorite word. So I personally like growth
34:48
tribe a lot. I think they did just change
34:51
their business model so they don't have as much content for
34:54
free anymore. But I really like that company
34:58
and I follow a lot of their content.
35:00
I also just personally really love to go to networking events.
35:04
So that's also a place where I or when I, when I speak with
35:07
people in Zoom, which is not the best answer ever, But for me, I
35:11
like that personal connection a lot and actually getting to know
35:15
or if I have a question, obviously I will also Google it,
35:18
put it into chat, CPT, all of those things and see what comes
35:22
out. So I think it's just important
35:25
to be curious, but I don't have one or two like of my favorite
35:29
things that I can recommend except growth Stripe, because
35:31
that's definitely one where I where I really like to go and
35:34
find those local marketing networking groups because that's
35:38
definitely also where you want to be and where you're going to
35:40
find other people's problems and other people's solutions.
35:43
And I think that's very interesting and other people's
35:46
favorite recommendations for other books and blogs.
35:50
Yeah. And I think in a post COVID
35:52
world, there's these events are more and more often coming up
35:55
again. And I think people just want to
35:57
get out and have that personal connection.
35:59
So definitely that's that's always something I look out for
36:02
other either local events or national events or whatever to
36:05
attend for sure. Yeah, so fun to be there.
36:07
Yeah, definitely. So you've been an awesome guest
36:09
and I actually think, Michelle, that we've probably opened up
36:13
the kind of worms and there's lots of other things we could
36:15
talk about. So there might be time for a
36:17
follow up session at some point. But but right now it's a bit of
36:19
a cheeky ask, but do you have any other inspirational people
36:23
in the space that you think we should try and get on our show
36:27
as well? So obviously I also do B2B
36:29
marketing, so I like to be in conversations with other B2B
36:33
marketeers, some that I find quite inspiring, who I've met
36:39
for example, in it's a marketing manager from the commerce.
36:43
I think they just rebranded. So I think now it's commerce.
36:47
So I'm in in touch with Enrique Mariano.
36:51
She's a really great person to to talk to because I'm
36:54
responsible for Ben and lyrics as well as Sweden.
36:57
I also want to include some Swedish person and I think one
37:02
person that I think was quite inspiring is called the Lucas
37:07
Roja. He's from Juniper, yeah, which
37:11
is also another tech company as well.
37:13
So I think he was a very great has a lot of interesting ideas
37:18
as well. And another person that I would
37:21
recommend, but this is a bit more personal branding and being
37:25
very authentic. I think it's, as we mentioned
37:28
already earlier, like that's getting so important in in our
37:32
world and and then actually promoting yourself as well as as
37:35
the business because your own personal brand or you as a
37:39
person. If we just don't want to say the
37:42
word brand for it, that's just like you can be out there and be
37:45
yourself And one person who I think does that in a really nice
37:48
way. Her name is Anna Bertolini.
37:51
Just looking at some of her posts inspires me to to create
37:54
some more of my own as well. So I would recommend them.
37:57
And finally, one of my own personal colleagues, which I
38:00
really, really think is very inspiring.
38:02
Her name is Juanita Solano Espinoza, and she also organizes
38:08
an event called Women in SAS. So if you want to have some
38:13
inspiration local for local events, then perhaps that's a
38:17
fun one to go to for other women out there as well.
38:21
So that's definitely one that I also really like.
38:24
Excellent. They're all good suggestions and
38:25
I don't think we've had any of them on the show now.
38:28
So I will get my team on it and we'll try and get them on on the
38:31
Future 1. So I appreciate that sounds.
38:33
Good. I don't think that the the
38:34
biggest influencers perhaps, but I like them.
38:38
Yeah. And what I, what we really like
38:40
on these podcasts, if people who are in there doing the things,
38:44
I'm not just talking about it because then you get the real
38:46
world conversations like we've had today.
38:48
So that's really good. Definitely.
38:50
And for listeners who've maybe open up questions they want to
38:53
they want to follow up on, how would you, if you're open to it,
38:56
recommend people get in touch with you after the podcast?
38:59
You can always send me a message on LinkedIn, I'll try to get
39:02
back to you. I do get quite a bunch, but
39:04
you're always very welcome to to send me a message and when I
39:07
have some time I will try to respond to it.
39:10
Awesome, brilliant. So Michelle, that was a really
39:12
great podcast. I really enjoyed it.
39:14
Really interesting conversation. So thank you very much for your
39:17
time today. I hope the listeners out there
39:19
have enjoyed this episode. And don't forget there's nearly
39:22
600 other episodes in the series now.
39:24
Make sure you check them out. And for now, thank you very much
39:27
for listening. Thanks again, Michelle, for your
39:29
time today. Until the next time, Cheerio.
39:33
Thanks for joining us for On Base.
39:35
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