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Transcript

Breaking Free: How to Rewire Your Mind for a Better Life · the ACT OUT podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Act Out Podcast.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Adam Tomlin.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is John Borden.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: He is an ultramarathoner and also a fitness coach, and he is the owner of Get Psych Fitness.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Roll the tape.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Hey, John, how are you doing, man?
0:19
SPEAKER_01: What's up, Adam?
0:20
SPEAKER_01: How are you, buddy?
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Living the dream, man.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Up in uh Norfolk, Virginia.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: I think you're down in Florida, right?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Sunny St.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Petersburg, Florida, home of 790 straight days of sunshine.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Not currently, but at one point in time.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Man, it lives up to that.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Every single day is just beautiful here.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Are you born and raised in that area?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: No, dude.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Born in New Jersey.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's fun is you know, with a name like Adam, you and I both have biblical names.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I am the youngest surviving Borden of the lineage, right?
0:52
SPEAKER_00: So, like my dad was one of three.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm his only son.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: There's one other Borden who's also an Adam, but he has a daughter as his only child.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: So I'm the only one that can live on the family Borden name.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you know, just having having you Adam reminded me of that.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh a nice connection there.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, so growing up, my uh my favorite wrestler, uh I used to love professional wrestling.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: My favorite wrestler was Sting.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And uh his real name is Steve Borden.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: And and so whenever I saw John Borden and like and and uh like I like you know working out stuff, I was like, there is an off chance that he hasn't played this game, you know?
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Hey man, I haven't done the 23andMe, but it might still be out there.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, what what part of uh New Jersey are you from?
1:41
SPEAKER_00: I grew up uh about 30 minutes from Philly.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: So like the Delaware River from Philly, but I went to school at Seton Hall University.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, the Delaware River.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Delaware.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh but hey, yeah, good good pull there.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: I grew up, I went to Seton Hall University though in North Jersey.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: So like outside of New York City for like 10 years before spending a year in Connecticut and then coming down here.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: So uh my wife is actually from Montclair, New Jersey.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, nice.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what that's what I was asking.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: So um I for a long time I had a uh 973 area code.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And uh and I would tell people that I was from New Jersey.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'd be like, yeah, man, I'm from Montclair.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, with the accent it really told me.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I even get that myself just being from South Jersey, you know, it's just a totally different world.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Even South Jersey versus North George uh North Jersey.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it may as well be two completely different states.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly, man.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's it's so diverse because you know, you have the South Jersey, like Philly influence, which is kind of where I'm from.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: You get the North Jersey, New York City influence, but then you also get like mountain people up in the northwest of the state, and then Hicks in the southeast of the state, you know, so it's just all over the place in terms of demographics.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of fun.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: What uh what brought you down to Florida?
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Depression, half joking, but like very seriously.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I was I was up in Connecticut for a year.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I was doing a job, I was working for my family's company, you know, kind of uh trying to do right by them, and then realized that spending a year in a place where I knew absolutely nobody in the middle of COVID when it was impossible to meet people was just doing myself a really big disservice and that I was gonna put a bullet in my brain if I didn't make a change soon enough.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so, you know, I came and visited Tampa just by accident, had happened to be on the weekend of the biggest cultural event of the city in the year, which is a boat parade called Gasparilla, where everybody dresses up like a pirate and gets hammered.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And at that point in my life, it was exactly what I needed as a siren saying, Hey, come here, come here, come here.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, so I I came back from that trip and was like, Yep, I'm moving.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so two months later I made Tampa my home and now I live in St.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Pete, which is right across Tampa Bay.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Did you go down specifically for you know, you said that like Gasparel is just kind of like a uh like serendipitous event?
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, it was by accident.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: I I hit up one of my buddies from high school that lived down in the area, and I was like, yo, I want to check out the city.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about moving.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I came down to Tampa and then road tripped up through Daytona, Savannah, Charleston, Charlotte, Greensboro, just hitting all different cities, seeing what I liked about each one.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: But it was like as soon as I hopped out of the Uber into Tampa, and it was just pirates, and not only pirates, but like girls in lace and corsets, and I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: So uh Norfolk is like right on the mouth of the uh Chesapeake Bay.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's like actually that the Chesapeake Bay is a like very big haven for uh for pirates.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And it was very easy for them to kind of like hide up into the bay and then come out into the ocean and attack like the uh the Spanish and all the other uh Yeah, very interesting.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's like a there's like a Spanish uh I mean I'm not Spanish, there's a uh like like a pirate festival every year in uh in like this Hampton Roads area.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And like I I never knew how much I love pirates until I like came to an area that had like pirate themed stuff, and now like I'm I'm all about it.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah, man.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: I I spent a lot of time on the Chesapeake actually.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: My uh my aunt and uncle growing up lived in Annapolis.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: So my dad and I would go to visit them semi-frequently, maybe like once or twice a year, you know, and just kind of fell in love with the area, the maritime culture, and just being on the water.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, who doesn't love a good crab pretzel?
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Come along.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: There is something that is very like helpful to my mental health being so close to water.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Well my wife and I I'm sorry, do up.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's a real thing for everybody, you know.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: It is uh an absolute uh fact that being by water is great for your mental health.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah um, so I live maybe like three blocks from a uh canal.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: And so pretty much every morning, like it is a it is a routine for me.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I give out and I'll I'll walk along that.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I tell you what, like man, that does wonders to like get my like self like to get me in a regulated state and get me ready to start the day.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I can always tell whenever I haven't been able to like to go walk by the canal because like I I feel like I'm off all day.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, most definitely, you know, and just just being out in nature, you know, walking, seeing the scenery change, getting that little bit of blood flow pumping, even if you're just walking, they're they're all like really big positives when it comes to mental and physical health.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Whenever you uh got down to uh to St.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Petersburg, like w were you able just to completely kind of change like basically do a 180 for like how you were living in uh in Connecticut, or did it kind of take some time?
6:39
SPEAKER_00: No, man.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, um I mean the the 180 came about six months after I moved down.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh when I first moved down, it was like, you know, so I'm you know, I went to school, I was in a fraternity, I partied hard, I came out of school, I you know, still kind of kept the same partying schedule that Thursday through Sunday when when the Sunday scaries hit, you know, I was gonna be living it up.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it was like, you know, you have to have a couple drinks, otherwise you can't fall asleep and stuff like that.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and so I kind of had that same biological clock when I moved down here.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: And I had the same desire, you know, like I said, one of the biggest things that drew me there was girls and corsets.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Um and so coming down here, that was my main objective, is really just to live life for the first time since COVID started, really, right?
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, what four months before COVID hit, I broke up with a girl that we had been dating for four and a half years.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: So I got to be single for like four months before COVID started.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: And then COVID happened, and then you know, I move up to Connecticut, and then it's like, oh my God, like please just let me live life, right?
7:49
SPEAKER_00: So I come down here with that like party lifestyle and mindset, and that was really all that I cared about for the first six months I was down here.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: And then I had the experience with psilocybin mushrooms that I wrote my book about.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And it was like from the moment I took my first bite of mushrooms, everything that I valued in life completely shifted.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: I went from, you know, just valuing short-term dopamine, whether that was from alcohol or cocaine or girls or gambling or tobacco or whatever, right?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: To okay, wait, my life has a purpose beyond just living for the weekend.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: What can I do to better myself, to better people around me, to leave a legacy, to do things that I'm proud of in the future, not just, you know, because I hooked up with a random hot girl at the bar or whatever, you know?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: So that that's incredible.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like you and I actually have very similar stories.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Um I was in a uh fraternity.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I was very sheltered uh before I before I went to college.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh did not like grew up in a very uh small rural town, didn't have a whole lot of life experience.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I joined the fraternity and I I you know like went full full fledged.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I'd see it on your face.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: I went like four and a half years.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh I wasn't necessarily Okay.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Sigma Pie.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh I uh yes, I like I absolutely loved it and then uh whenever I graduated it still very much like I had the the party mindset where it was impossible for me to even like consider uh experiencing the day without like either an alcohol or some type of drug like that.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: I was not able to even look in the mirror.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I had to have something to be able to be able to keep it going.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Feel that man.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Where do you think uh your kind of uh like like your rut stemmed from?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: My rut?
9:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Whenever you were in that place, where what was kind of what what was holding you back?
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Well well, you know, just like you said, uh I grew up sheltered as well.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: I I grew up in the smallest city in New Jersey.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's about you know a thousand people in the town.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And even smaller than the overall population was the amount of people my age.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Like I had a neighbor about four doors down who was like three or four years younger than me, but that was the closest person in age within a mile or so.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so like I grew up like, you know, the last kid to learn about sex.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Like I remember kids in my class asking me what a blowjob was, and then like laughing because I had no idea, and this is like seventh grade, right?
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And so um, I I was just very slow on the social uptick.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I was always, you know, kind of like, you know, I don't know.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: I I guess I was awkward.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I guess I was like just like not great social skills, you know.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And so when I went away to college, it was like a really big, like, okay, I can kind of try to find myself.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm around much more more people, I can kind of rewrite my identity, so on and so forth.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: And I became really fixated on acceptance, right?
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Just wanting to be accepted.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's really what it all always came down to is that like, you know, at the end of the day, uh sex was the real addiction, right?
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I write about addiction in my book, and you know, alcohol and cocaine are like the tangible ones that you can point to and say, hey, I don't do that anymore.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this thing must have worked.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: But really, it was the addiction to validation that I was getting from women that was the real addiction, right?
11:11
SPEAKER_00: And so once I could figure that out for myself, that like everything that I did was with the objective of fulfilling that, you know, deep-seated insecurity that I had that was then massaged over by a sexual conquest or whatever, right?
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Once I could work that back, it was like, okay, I can change my values, right?
11:32
SPEAKER_00: And I can change my values from, you know, that validation is the most important thing to me.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Is the most important thing to me.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: I I I yeah, I'm I'm uh right there with you it's incredible.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: I was actually going to tell you at first, like what I what I think was had me in my rut was that I was addicted to external validation.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: I could not exist outside of what your opinion was of me.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't think I was the like funniest, charming, smartest person you've ever seen, then I was completely worthless.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: And uh to yeah, so to and and even a lot of the I I look at my like uh whenever I was like younger and single, I about past behavior with girls.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: It was exactly the exact the exact same thing.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even about trying to have a relationship or connection with a girl, it was about about validation or about the about the conquest.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if she you know opens your legs to her, like that's the biggest form of validation you could ever ask for, like someone giving themselves to you uh as much as that indicates, right?
12:40
SPEAKER_00: And so like whether it's that or then the admiration that you get from other dudes for doing what you're doing, it's like the it's the ultimate cocktail.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: How are you able to ID your um, you know, like your your need for the external validation?
12:59
SPEAKER_01: It took me tens of thousands of therapy.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: It took me about ten dollars in mushrooms.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, and and that's that's overly simplifying it, right?
13:06
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of work that I did from a you know personal development standpoint, reading books, watching, you know, podcasts, you know, yada yada yada, and just trying to figure out the way that my brain was working and the things that I, you know, valued and and why my actions happened the way that they did.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: But really, you know, sitting with the mushrooms and self-analyzing myself on moments where I, you know, and and I I always point to an ex-girlfriend that I cheated on.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was a girl that I dated out of college.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, she would always ask me, like, why are you doing this?
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Why are you doing this?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: And I could never answer the question because I really didn't know why I was doing it.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I knew I was doing it because I wanted there was a sexual desire and it came up and I'm like, oh, I can't control it, right?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: But like I was doing it because that like need for validation would take over in those moments where, you know, the the addition of alcohol, the addition of cocaine inhibitions are lessened.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like I no longer care about who I hurt in my pursuit of this.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: All I care about is what this is going to feel like in the moment.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I could never really answer that for her.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: But then once I was able to sit with the psilocybin and like think about all those times that she asked me that, I could actually think and go, oh, it's because I care about what other people think of me rather than what I think of myself or what, you know, the people who are supposed to be important think about me.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Were you like kind of starting to uh kind of go on a uh self-help journey before you had taken the shrooms?
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: And you know, so so that started about 10 months before uh I ate mushrooms for the first time in adulthood.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: And it really started with a conversation with a guy at a bar.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: I was up in Connecticut and I had made the decision that I wanted to leave the company that I was at, was looking for different jobs around Connecticut, and I ended up sitting down at a bar.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: It was the first time I was able to have a dinner out, like not at a fast food restaurant in months because like, you know, staffing was crazy and I had to work myself to the bone.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: And I go out and I sit down at this bar, and this guy next to me is just like radiating positivity and like energy and shit.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, this seems like an interesting dude.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: So I strike up a conversation and he was also a fraternity president, he was also a baseball player.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: He also started with a company and worked his way up from a young age.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I started with enterprise rent a car out of college and got like promotion, promotion, promotion.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Ended up getting fired because my office got broken into and robbed, and I, the manager, did not lock the keys in the safe at the end of the night.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And I blamed everyone for that.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: I blamed, you know, my ex-girlfriend for leaving me.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: I blamed, you know, yada yada yada.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: And he told me the truth that nobody else in my life had been able to give me.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's everything is your fault.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself, but it was the first time I'd ever actually heard that.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, fuck, man, maybe he's right.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: And so that kind of flipped my my mind to say, you know, okay, me being up in here in Connecticut, like maybe I don't feel like, you know, this was my choice to be up here because, you know, my family's company had a need and I stepped up to fill that, right?
16:16
SPEAKER_00: But I have the ability to change that for myself.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: And so that became the first thing that I changed.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, found a work-from-home job, and then that led me to moving to Tampa, right?
16:26
SPEAKER_00: But then through all that, I'm starting to realize, okay, well, you know, my personality is not fixed.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: I can find out different ways to improve myself.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to be honest, it started with trying to get better at picking up girls.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: So I read Neil Get Neil Strauss's The Game.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And that kind of opened up a lot of things from a psychology standpoint.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And then that led me into how to win friends and influence people.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And then that really opened it up so that I could have better conversations with people in my life and more intimate connections.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, wait a second.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: There's some positive momentum happening here.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, and then I go to Tampa and, you know, it takes a little bit of a back burner.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm still doing, you know, some podcasts and stuff, not me being on podcasts, right?
17:06
SPEAKER_00: But like listening to podcasts and getting good information.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And then the soul timing enters the picture.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I kind of go, oh, wait, there was so much good in that period of my life where I'm learning from these books.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Let's see how much more I can explore.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, the rabbit hole just got deeper and deeper and deeper until, you know, now when I'm probably, you know, 50 or 100 different personal development, you know, biography style books into my consumption journey and always just looking to find, you know, little different secrets from people who have done things successfully and how I can learn from them.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: He was radiating positive energy at shit.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: So kind of go back to that point though.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, there are two different ways you could have taken that uh, you know, basically if the buck stops with you, you know, you you could have said fuck off or you could have done what you did and you know, like flip, you know, you know, flip that first thing, you know, your current situation uh in Connecticut.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think you were able to use that advice to flip instead of just fuck off and then you know move on to your next conquest?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, because he was so socially competent that I there was nothing that I could do except for trust him, right?
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Like we had that we had that conversation and you know, we've been talking for 30 minutes at that point, so we put up a pretty good rapport.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: And you know it it that that comment like hit like a brick, right?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: But then he's like, You want to go hit on girls together?
18:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh sure.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: We we go talk to girls, he goes and talks to girls, and they're like falling all over him, like literally like grabbing him, laughing, like literally just trying to do anything for his fucking attention.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what the fuck?
19:05
SPEAKER_00: I've never seen this in my life.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Like the dude was insane.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: But but that was really like the validation of who he is as a person that made me say, Well, fuck, he's probably on to something if he's recognizing this deficiency.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Are you still you still talk to that dude?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I sent him a copy of my book after I wrote it because you know that story is uh a pretty big, you know, piece of it.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it didn't go any further than, yeah, I remember that.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: I was kind of blunt.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Sorry for that.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, nah, dude, it's really positive.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of weird how like something that can be like, you know, just like a small part of someone's day can have such a big impact on someone else's life.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's incredible, man.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, most definitely, you know, and and I'm finding that myself and a lot of stuff that I do, right?
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Because I I'm I I I push myself physically, right?
20:02
SPEAKER_00: And I talk openly on social media about, you know, mindset and things of that nature.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: And some things that come across as like kind of innocuous about how I live my everyday life.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, people will say to me all the time, like, oh yeah, you know, I I saw that, and it really made me think about X, Y, and Z.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, now I'm doing blank, and it's just incredible to like feel the type of influence that I can have just by living my life how I normally do.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: So um I wanna I want to get into a shrimp trick with you.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Right now I'm not prepared.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, whenever I was uh tough to you a little bit before we were uh recording, whenever uh whenever I was in college, I would do basically any kind of drug I trip that would make me feel not how I felt at all.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh and so whenever I had taken shrimps in the past, it was very much I feel very bad, I want to not feel this way.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I would have like bad trips sometimes where like I would get caught in like really like negative loops.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Um I think at one point I felt as if I forgot that happiness existed um for a little bit.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Um and so like I had kind of I was I was I was afraid to take them uh for a really long time afterwards.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until uh very recently.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: I I I'm uh 39 now.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: I think it was like a year ago.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: A year, a year and a half ago whenever I had uh taken it again for um and it was a completely different trip where I had a very specific uh very specific kind of thought that I wanted to to kind of think about and kind of like kind of have that be like the basis for my trip.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: And it it felt as if it was much more kind of mind experience.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh so can you kind of help me parson why was what was my experience so bad?
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Before in college, and why is it so much better now?
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, so I mean you know, the the real answers to that lies in the question that you asked.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've heard of set and setting.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: So for listeners, set your mindset going into it, right?
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Why you're doing it, specific intentions, so on and so forth.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And then setting your physical location, the people around you, things of that nature.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: The first time I tried mushrooms, actually, I was 18.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: It was the day after I quit playing baseball.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: And I was a competitive baseball player all throughout my youth, uh, hurt my shoulder and had to quit the team.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: The day after that, I ate mushrooms for the first time, having no idea what to expect.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to kill myself.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: I told my girlfriend I was going to drive my car on the other side of the road because it's the day after the most depressing day of my life.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: So, mindset, terrible setting.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: I was with my girlfriend and her friends who I wasn't very close with, and dark, dingy basement.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: That was my first time in with a whole bunch of spider webs and a big mirror that allowed me to look into it and see a six-year-old version of myself staring back at me and going, John, what the fuck's wrong with you?
23:10
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, uh, you know, similar to that, you know, you were in college, you were in a mindset of like trying to escape.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You were doing it recreationally just for the, hey, you know, let's get fucked up kind of feeling, right?
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And when these feelings come up, you aren't prepared for what that's going to be like.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: You're not prepared for the existential questions that mushrooms, you know, give us the opportunity to ask ourselves.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: You're also probably not with people who are very emotionally open and understanding.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: And so when these things come up, it's not like you can be like, uh, hey, dude, I'm really questioning my place in the universe.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Can you help talk me through this?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, dude, I'm really questioning my place in the universe.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Adam's so fucking high right now.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Take another hit.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: That would be, you know.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, so I the the intentionality is really just such a big thing, right?
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Understanding what you're getting yourself into, the self-work that goes into it.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I I did a pretty big trip myself a week and a half ago.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And throughout that whole thing, there were a number of times, and this is a more powerful trip than I've had in my entire life.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, even for me, it was a little bit like overwhelming, even though, you know, I've been using them habitually for the last three and a half years, you know, usually like every three months or so, I'll do a larger dose.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: And uh and going into this experience, I, you know, I, you know, I I have my intention, yada, yada, yada, but I go into the experience and there's a whole lot of panic that's coming up for me, right?
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And I have to go back to breathing and I have to go back to understanding how to use my breath to manage my physical state.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: If I didn't train myself in that regard, it could have been a very negative experience.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Now, because I know how to control my breath, I know how to control my body, even though there's this like really big overwhelming experience that's brought on by the the medicine, I'm able to navigate it well.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of life experience that goes into being able to use these things effectively.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of, you know, just experience with the medicine itself that goes into knowing what to expect and knowing how to navigate your thoughts while you're in that state of mind.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it can be overwhelming for people, it can be scary, it can be a lot of things.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: But if you eliminate as many variables as possible, you know, first and foremost, just make sure that it's not the day after the most depressing day of your life or, you know, somewhere around that area.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, to make sure you're around good people, people who know what the experience is going to be like, that have high emotional intelligence, can talk you through it.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, it don't present any judgment or anything like that on anything that you're feeling, you know, and uh, and you know, just make sure that there's nothing that's gonna go wrong, nothing to put you in danger, and you know, nothing to bring you out of, you know, that intention that you have.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: And just sit with it, make sure you have some music plans so that you can dance along.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Because I find when I get in repetitive loops, the thing that gets me out of that is just moving my body because you know, a loop will happen and you kind of seize up a little bit, right?
26:13
SPEAKER_00: But if you have that music playing, it makes sure to always guide your thoughts and keep them flowing and keep them moving.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: So if you can physically move your body, then your thoughts can flow along with it and you can begin to flow with the experience.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's uh let's take the listener into to a shrimp experience.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: So whenever you take them, uh it takes about uh 45 to 60 minutes or so to kind of start kicking in.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: What what are some of the first things that that you start to notice?
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so for me, what I really like to do is I like to I like to do yoga, I like to like kind of meditate, I like to just kind of be alone with myself, some music playing, something like that, right?
26:54
SPEAKER_00: And so like I'll either, you know, I'll either like this past week, I went into I have a gym at my house.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: I built a gym uh out of my garage.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: It's fucking sick.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh but I went in there and I just started doing some stretching, you know, just to get in touch with my body, in touch with my breath, you know.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh I lit a candle in the room that I was intending to like act out the duration of the trip in.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: I had a speaker set up so that when I went in there, I could play music.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a dark room, there's not much light, there's nothing, you know, external as far as like a TV or anything that's gonna distract me.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: It's really just okay, how can I create a comfortable environment for myself to be present with myself in this space and not allow for anything to take my thoughts out of what I'm trying to get out of it, right?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: But so the first thing that's gonna happen is like I'm gonna start feeling, you know, kind of light euphoria in my body.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll start noticing that my my mind will go through a little bit different pathways.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: There's usually a level of anxiety that starts to pike up as soon as the mushrooms start to hit.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: When that happens, I really like to go through breathing techniques.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: My favorite is a four, seven, eight breathing method in which I inhale for four seconds, hold for seven, and exhale for eight.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's usually one of those things that, like, if I feel the anxiety starting to come on and I can take myself through a few rounds of that four, seven, eight breathing, it'll bring me back to equilibrium enough that the anxiety stops and I can be in the psilocybin experience without that anxiety.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: It allows me to slow my thoughts enough to stop that, ask where it's coming from, and say, okay, now that I figured that out, we can move on and just start to go.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so, yeah.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: So whenever you get to that place where there is a uh where you're like, hey, I got a little bit of anxiety, you got a thought, I'm assuming that what you need to be is curious about it, right?
28:53
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna be like judging it or shaming it, but kind of asking asking questions, right?
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly it.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, one of my favorite examples of that, uh, when I had the the experience that changed my life, you know, it was really six experiences.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: It was six uh times using psilocybin mushrooms.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: It started with a half gram dose, which is like just a little bit more than microdose, um, and then went to a gram, and then maybe like two grams, and then like a gram and a half Friday, Saturday, Sunday at a festival.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: And on Sunday at the festival, I, you know, I've eaten some mushrooms and I'm going through uh my stretching session in the back of the main stage at EDC, right?
29:35
SPEAKER_00: So there's 150,000 people, and I'm in the middle of this crowd, and I'm like, well, you know, I've been on my feet for three straight days.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: I haven't eaten the way that I normally eat, I haven't hydrated the way I normally hydrate.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: My muscles are super tight and tired, and I need to stretch.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: But there's 150,000 people around me.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't want people to judge me.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: And so as soon as I had that question, I asked myself, wait, why would someone judge me?
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Would I judge someone who was doing yoga in a crowd?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: No.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: I would say, oh man, that must feel really good.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: So why not fucking stretch?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Who is thinking that thought, right?
30:15
SPEAKER_00: If anyone's thinking a thought that's, hey, this guy's a loser for stretching, first off, they don't know me.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: They're never gonna know me because they've got a shit attitude.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: And three, they don't understand what it's like to connect with their body.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Like I am who I am from a physical standpoint for a reason, and that's because I understand my body very well.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: If someone disagrees with that or thinks I shouldn't be doing that, well, I got I got an opinion for you, and that's that you are not on my level.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have a different conversation.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna go stretch, I'm gonna feel really great about it, and I'm gonna move on with my day.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, mushrooms, for allowing me to work through that anxiety and not need to worry about what other people think about me.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's amazing.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: I that is something that I've struggled with myself, where it is so much easier for me to give someone else grace uh than myself.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: And that is something now that I am having to be very, very intentional on and like do exactly what you were saying.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Because every single time I I have to take a step back.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm I actually wouldn't think I would be like happy that that person was stretching.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: That tells me that they are connected to their body and that they're comfortable, blah, blah.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: That needs to be me too.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: And so that is definitely a that's definitely a learning experience that I not even remotely getting uh close to 100% yet.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a muscle like anything, right?
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And there the more the more you exercise it, the bigger it gets.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh euphoria coming in, a little bit of uh anxiety that you're able to do your uh what the two wait four six four seven eight.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: So then what's what's coming after that?
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh what what's the next part of it?
31:53
SPEAKER_00: It's uh Yeah, then then usually, you know, if it's a big enough dose, uh the visualizations start, and you know, just an extreme amount of introspection starts.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, everybody has different experiences in what they see, right?
32:08
SPEAKER_00: But the way that I see it is it's kind of like entities come to me and they do surgery on me and they take out something and they put something new in, and it's kind of like you know, swapping out old batteries and putting new ones in and kind of allowing me to take that next step in life that I need to take.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: And that visualization has come to me a number of times.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: It came to me right before uh, you know, a month where I had had a strongman competition on the first week of February last year, and then I ran a marathon a week later, and then I competed in Deka Fit a week after that.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing this mushroom trip and I'm just thinking about the schedule that I have coming up.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, there was anxiety, like, oh man, I'm you know, I'm not gonna be the strongest person at the strong man, I'm not gonna be the fastest person at the marathon, I'm not gonna be the most agile person at the decafit.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: And then in this moment, there's like no more anxiety because that had been taken out and replaced with it.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: It was just this insane confidence and awareness of how much of a freak athlete I am because who the fuck can say that they do that?
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: I need to take a nap just hearing that.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, how on earth were you able to do that?
33:15
SPEAKER_00: With vigor too, man.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: It's ridiculous, man.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: What I saw a thing that you did an ultra marathon.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: What what is an ultra marathon?
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh so an ultra marathon is technically anything longer than 26.2 miles.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so your your base level ultras start at 31, uh, which I'm doing a 31 mile Spartan race actually in a month and a half.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be really fun.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: It's my first Spartan Ultra.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so that'll be a nice little check in the in the box.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I've done two 46 mile ultras, uh, including my first one, which I had never run anything longer than a half marathon before hopping up to that starting line.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And now I've done 100 mile, Tampa Bay 100, and then I did a last man standing treadmill race a month ago, and that was five miles on the treadmill every hour on the hour until there was one person remaining.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Really?
34:07
SPEAKER_01: You won.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: So are I I've never asked this question before.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Are you insane?
34:14
SPEAKER_01: How on earth can you do this, man?
34:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm a psycho, man.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm an absolute psycho.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, I the psychonaut, yeah.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it the name of my company is get psyched fitness.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I do do psychedelics during all my competitions, whether that's psilocybin or LSD.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, during the last man standing race, I did about 2.1 grams of psilocybin during the 100 mile race.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I did three and a quarter grams uh during that strongman competition that I mentioned that was like a year ago.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I did about three quarters of a tab of LSD, right?
34:46
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like an overwhelming amount, especially if it's parked out throughout the day, uh, but enough to really put me in touch with my body and the way that I'm functioning and really help me to bring it, bring the most out of myself.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: So that's really big.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Other than that, I've been training for 20 years, you know.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh I gained uh a love of physical fitness uh that started in sixth grade, and I've been working out, you know, pretty much every day since I went to college, but you know, it was probably five days a week from the time I was in sixth grade to the end of high school.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, just kind of putting myself through the ringers old hat for me.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: So you take like just it seems like you take just enough where you are able to feel more connected to your body.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I would think though that that would have to be a very difficult, sweet spot to find because you want to be able to be connected to your body, but not have the like anxiety and get too much in your head.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Though, especially with running, it's pretty easy to filter through that.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Like even if you get too much, like the running is just an active meditation, right?
35:46
SPEAKER_00: The whole time you're focusing on where your foot lands, you're focusing on the breath in and out, you're focusing on making sure that your heart rate doesn't get too high.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's it's a constant meditation.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: You got music playing, you know, in races, you know, I'll have my wife biking alongside me, your friends running next to me, you know.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's just great time, it's good vibes, and you know helps me stay in a really positive mood when other people are like, fuck this, I can't believe I'm out here.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: This has been 18 hours and I'm grinding, I'm grinding, I'm grinding.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, it's been 18 hours.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: This is fucking great.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: How many more you want to go?
36:16
SPEAKER_01: What's your go-to music to listen to?
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, man, I I have a very diverse musical taste.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my favorite band is Rise Against.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: That's the cover art from one of their albums.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I actually threw a copy of my book on stage at them last time I saw them, and they never acknowledged it.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: So thanks a lot, guys.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: If you're out there listening, just like call me, please.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I love I love EDM.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh I love EDM.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I had a con I had a country kick for a while.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh rock is kind of the the foundation of everything, you know, and so uh just you know, whatever whatever's playing, I'm gonna find something that I like.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: What do you think it is about these like these ultra experiences that kind of like test you that like how what how does this bring out the best in you and versus not just completely destroying you?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, so here's the thing is that like when I had the experience that changed my life in 2022, uh I took like a year of not really pushing myself the way that I had been the decade prior in terms of my physical fitness.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: And I found uh I found David Goggins, right?
37:36
SPEAKER_00: And he kind of poses the question to his listeners, to his followers, whatever, like what are you actually capable of if you try?
37:45
SPEAKER_00: And that question really fired me up because it got me thinking, you know, I put myself through a lot physically, right?
37:54
SPEAKER_00: I hadn't been running at that point, I hadn't run from 2011 to 2023, so like 12 years without running, but I'd spent a lot of time in the gym.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: I'd been doing some biking and stuff like that, you know, and it just got me to question, okay, what is possible for myself if I if I if I push, right?
38:14
SPEAKER_00: And so doing these challenges, it really is a challenge to myself, right?
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just, it's just fun.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, can I do this thing that seems like a totally over-the-top, a totally over-the-top test that I shouldn't be able to do?
38:28
SPEAKER_00: But can I do it and come out on the other side?
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And time and time again, I've proven to myself that I can do so much more than even I figured I was capable of.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, just going in with the mindset of like, let's see if I can.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, focusing on one bite at a time.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I when I went to do my first 46 mile ultra, I, you know, I hadn't run anything longer than a half marathon, and that was nine months prior.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I stepped up to the starting line with a whole lot of uncertainty about my ability to do it.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: But the saying, how do you eat an elephant came to mind?
39:04
SPEAKER_00: And that really became my mantra throughout the day.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I just try to focus on one bite at a time and not making the task any bigger than what it is in that current moment.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to ultras, there's aid stations.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you can kind of just play the game of okay, can I get to the next aid station?
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Can I get to the next aid station?
39:22
SPEAKER_00: The answer is gonna be yes, time and time again.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: It's it's amazing the the things that kind of like that bring you motivation.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're talking about the uh the David Goggins and then the like how do you eat an elephant?
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Um whenever um whenever I was going to start this uh podcast, I uh had something that just kept going over and over in my mind.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh if I don't do it, somebody else will.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: And and I was just like, you know, yeah, if I don't just fuck it, I'm gonna do it.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Um the thing is, that line came from a song about Dr.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: John, and it's uh it's about going to a bar with your best friend and his girlfriend, and you're gonna pick up your best friend's girlfriend, and you're like, I mean, if I don't do it, somebody else will.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: That's evil.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: So it is an absolutely terrible message for the song.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: But like if you can, you know, take it over into like starting a podcast, it's a much better message for you.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: And when it came time for me to decide if how I was going to present my story and like share the story of change that I had and everything like that, there's there's a whole big, you know, there's a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of uncertainty, there's a lot of like, who is gonna judge me for this, right?
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Because it is a Schedule I drug and it's taboo and yada yada yada, right?
40:45
SPEAKER_00: And even just like the topic of, you know, and and like I kind of hate the word addict because like I mean, in reality, that's what it was, right?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I I couldn't fall asleep without a drink.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: I did coke on more days than I did than I didn't.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: I was an addict, right?
40:59
SPEAKER_00: But like those addictions are so like socially accepted comparative to some of them out there that like when I tell a lot of people, it kind of feels disingenuous to say addict because you know it's not like I was shooting up crack or something like that, right?
41:13
SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's levels to it.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: But you know, so so for me to tell my story and say, like, hey, I was an addict, yes, it's it's factually correct, but it it feels weird to say that, right?
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Because like, you know, until I had my experience with mushrooms, I wouldn't have told you that I was an addict.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: But then once I did, it's like, oh fuck, I have an addiction.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: We need to fix this, you know.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: So so there was just a whole bunch of uncertainty.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, if I don't tell this story, these things have such an incredible potential to help people that there's someone else that's going to take that ball and run with it.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: So I need to put my experience down on paper.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: I need to show people what is possible with these things and open up the door for you know, potentially other people to benefit from hearing my story.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: But you know, man, like I've realized that we have talked about so much so many other things.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: I have not even asked you about the 2022 trip.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Like what happened and how did it change you?
42:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, John.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: I I get really excited about all the other topics that we were discussing.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, dude.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, so much in life has happened from then.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of like like that's like the catalyst, that's the turning point for just giving me the clarity to do everything else that I've done in life.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: And so super grateful for it.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Really, the the biggest thing was that I had a lot of shame from mistakes I had made earlier in life, right?
42:30
SPEAKER_00: I was dealing with anxiety, I was dealing with depression, I was on ProZac at that point for a few years, you know, had been a habitual drinker.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: My friends knew me as Johnny Bags because I always had a bag on me, you know.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: So, like I had this reputation of just being somebody that always got the party started.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I didn't really show empathy towards other people, yada, yada, yada.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: And so when I tried mushrooms for the first time in, you know, the month leading up to EDC, I didn't really know what to expect.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: And so I started out with a small dose.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: And that small dose was kind of the key that unlocked years of repressed memories that I had just shoved away and shoved away and shoved away.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: And so there were all these things that I was just really not proud of, you know, whatever, right?
43:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, time at times just doing things that I wasn't proud of.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: And it allowed me to look at those and say, okay, I did them.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: I can't run from that.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: I did them.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Now accept it, understand why you did, and move on.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I had that first experience.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: It was a half gram dose.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: I cried for four hours straight.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: I was with one of my best friends.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: He left like a dude, I'm gonna get the fuck out of here.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't, I don't blame you.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even form a sentence.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: All I could do is cry about, you know, bullshit from before you even knew me.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that happened.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: I called out of work the next day, which I never do, but I just needed time to process.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of just like sat by the river and like thought about myself and the way that I'd acted earlier in life.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: And you You know, it i the first time I tried mushrooms was when I was 18.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I had the thoughts of killing myself.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: It was really emotional.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And so this is now two for two that I've tried mushrooms and like not a great experience, but I had enough to experiment with again before the show.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And so two weeks after that, I did a gram.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm expecting to trip.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much you actually need to eat to trip at this point.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: And I eat a gram, and everything is just like really beautiful and crystal clear.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: And me and my two friends who had also eaten them with me, we could decide to go for a walk and walk to the river that goes through downtown Tampa.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: And we're going there and I'm skipping and I'm in a great mood.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: And like this is a dude that's on antidepressants, right?
44:39
SPEAKER_00: And like doesn't really know what joy is, like, doesn't know that I can express myself emotionally and like not be judged by people for it, right?
44:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm skipping on the way to the river walk.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: And then I get to the river walk, and there's all these families there with kids, and the moon is shining off the water, and you know, just light lights from the buildings.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, oh my God, this is the most beautiful thing I've seen in my entire life.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, I recognize that it was the first time that I had ever stopped and just appreciated the world around me rather than worrying about, oh, what do these, you know, families think about, you know, random 30-year-old dude being here, right?
45:16
SPEAKER_00: Or what do my friends think about?
45:18
SPEAKER_00: No, I wasn't thinking about what anyone else thought of me.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't thinking about the mistakes that I'd made earlier in my life that meant that I was at that river walk without a romantic partner or whatever it was, right?
45:29
SPEAKER_00: I hadn't thought about the jobs that I'd gotten fired from or, you know, whatever, right?
45:35
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about how grateful I was that I was living in this beautiful city with friends that cared about me in, you know, beautiful weather, all the opportunity in the world for me to live my life in a positive direction from this point forward.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: And that was the first time that I ever thought about the future with any sort of optimism.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And it was just like, holy fuck, life is abundant and like prosperous, and I have the ability to live a great life.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: And it was like click.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Whole life is different from that point.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, I started to just like talk to the cashier at the supermarket or just like strike up a conversation with random people.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Like if I'd see a woman struggling with her cart, help her or you know, whatever it was, just like finding little ways to be a better person for myself.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: I would, you know, make food for my friends.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And if my friends didn't want to eat it, I'd take it out to homeless people, you know, and just like find little ways to be a better person and just feeling how good it feels to do things that I told myself for the longest time I wanted to do because I knew that they were the right thing to do, but I didn't do because of whatever reason, you know, just anxiety locking me into inaction.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: And now all of a sudden I'm just doing all these things that I'd wanted to do forever.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, wow, this is the way life should be lived.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think it's kind of interesting, but I don't think you have that second trip where you're able to, you know, kind of contemplate the future with optimism without having that trip before where you had to kind of take that hard look in the in the mirror with the uh with the spiderwebs on it.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: And you know, kind of like and you know, s uh see see some uh things that you had done wrong.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, whenever you're confronted with that, you can go one of two ways, kind of like before.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, you can you know, kind of the kind of distance, fuck that, that's not me, you know, and then kind of like keep living in denial.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: Or you're able to process it and kind of move on to the next next day.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Why do you why do you think you were able to process and move on?
47:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a good question.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: Probably part of it stems from the work that I had started doing over the year prior, you know, just on myself and understanding, understanding communication, understanding, you know, emotional intelligence a little bit better.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was just time, you know, being away from, you know, really it was that relationship and the the way that I acted during the relationship that was really the big thing during that first night.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just being willing to look at myself, you know, not not backing away, not being scared, not being so insecure that I I wasn't able to acknowledge my own fault.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh it was like, you know, holding up a mirror and like I could not look away.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: All I could see was the way that I acted.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh I called, I call it and I call it my book, uh, going into bystander mode, right?
48:20
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, it's like you're watching a TV show of yourself, the way that you've acted, right?
48:26
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you're screaming at the at the character, the killer's around the corner, the killer's around the corner, go kiss the girl, or you know, whatever, right?
48:35
SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, I am the viewer and the actor at the same time.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And so I know exactly how I should be acting.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: I saw the way that I was acting and could dissect, you know, the dissonance between where I was and where I needed to be.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: So what's the uh what's the name of your book?
48:52
SPEAKER_00: It's called Your Mindset Is Your Reality.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Where can people uh get it?
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, it's on Amazon.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: It's also on Audible and Apple Books.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: I recorded the audiobook myself, so you'll hear me reading it.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm I'm actually intrigued.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: I I may do the uh audiobook.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: I've I've I've enjoyed the conversation.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you uh do you also do personal training as well?
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I do one-on-one personal training, mindset coaching, uh, things of that nature.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh what I like to tell people is that uh I help them discover the most incredible version of themselves.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: So uh whatever that means for an individual person, I I get with them, I work with them, and I make sure that they uh find that the ability within themselves to do the things that really light them up.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: And how can people uh get in contact with you guys?
49:40
SPEAKER_00: Instagram's the best way.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Johnny B.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: That's J O H N N I E B E.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Two N S I E B E Johnny B.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: All right, man.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Dude, I have had an absolute blast talking with you.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for acting out with me, bud.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
50:01
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for hosting a great space, Adam.