Latest / Shouty Brain / #18: Bryony Moss

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#18: Bryony Moss · Shouty Brain

• Trevor Holland: Hello, my name's Trevor Holland. Sarah: I am Sarah Alexander. Trevor Holland: And this is Shouty Brain and we are still working out what this is gonna be. I think we're working on this is a podcast from two neurodivergent mates setting the world to rights or something like that. We haven't Sarah: that's what we're going with, isn't it? Trevor Holland: something like that. We haven't told anybody actually the extent of your involvement in this podcast now. So I think this is this is probably a good time to Dress the elephant in the room. So lo w Sarah: Yeah, we're tag teaming it now, aren't we, I think? Trevor Holland: we're tag teaming it now. So last week I said by the way, Sarah's gonna be involved in a f i in some capacity. Sarah's gonna be helping me with a couple of interviews. But then we had such a nice time last week, didn't we? Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: in spite of my better judgment, I thought, yeah, Sarah's all right actually. and so Sarah: All right. Trevor Holland: And so I asked I said, Do you wanna actually just fucking just do do this podcast as a as a as a co enterprise from now on? Sarah: He says alright and then he's just like, please I love you and I'm joking. Trevor Holland: I didn't know whether you were gonna say yes because you're you're a far bi you're a far busier person than me, but I thought I think this could actually be quite good. So this is so Sarah: We have fun. Trevor Holland: this is Shouty Brain two point Shouty Brain is no longer the podcast from a late diagnosed Audio H D man on the Voyager Discovery to find my people in a neurotypical world. It is actually now basically the Trevor and Sarah show where we are both completely fifty fifty, we are now the shouty grain people. So we're gonna be we're gonna be doing what we were doing before, which is interviewing neurodivergent people, and we'll come onto that in a minute 'cause we've got we've got one that we spoke to yesterday. but we're not always going to interview people. We've got a few lined up, but I think we're also gonna just sit down and shoot the shit because we both Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: we both have very similar flavours of neurodivergence, don't we? Sarah: We do. Trevor Holland: we have different experiences but also very similar in a lot of ways and I think it's gonna be kind of well guess what fucking made me fly into a rage this week? Because I'm always gonna have a couple of them on in the fucking chamber ready to go. Sarah: Yes, my goodness. And I mean, Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: so have I. Trevor Holland: I feel as though you're an angrier person than me. Sarah: People always say this to me, people think that I am such an aggressive person and do know what it is? I think it's the accent. People think that I'm such an aggressive person and that like I am like down for confrontation and stuff but I'm not like that at all. Like I cower from confrontation and I don't like getting aggressive or like I'm not like that at all. I am... I was gonna say I'm a quiet little mouse but I'm not at all. But I'm not, I'm like I'm such a nice person Trev, like you know me. Trevor Holland: No, no, no. Yeah. Sarah: and like I think I genuinely think it's the accent and how like animated I am but like Trevor Holland: Yeah. No, don't don't mi don't misinterpret me. I'm not saying you're aggressive. I'm not saying you're confrontational. Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: I'm saying I suspect you are angrier than me. I feel like right. Sarah: Okay, I mean, yeah, you should see me in the car. I mean, I was on the phone to my brother the other day while I was driving through the car place where I wasn't on the phone while I driving and he's genuinely said to me, need to calm down because I was effing blind to no other drivers because they're annoying. So in the car, yes, I am very angry because people are annoying. Like, you've got an indicator, fucking user. And I mean... Trevor Holland: I think Sarah: Yeah, I think I probably am angrier than you are. You're very late, Trevor Holland: Well, this is a bone of contention because I I I'm I'm very laid back coded, right? So I I I give I Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I give that impression that I'm really laid back and everyone thinks I am. Unless you really start like peeling away the layers because Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I'm just this fucking simmering vessel of hatred. And Sarah: Yeah, like a little cauldron. Trevor Holland: but I am generally I like to be as relaxed as possible. So I'm I'm not like faking being relaxed. I am, I think, for the most part, Sarah: Hmm. Trevor Holland: I am quite relaxed, but I also have a hair trigger fucking temper. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: And it only it doesn't take much. And we talked about it in that first ever episode that we recorded together. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: A couple of months ago when I said about when I when I like hit my head and when I when I bite my cheek and stuff like w any kind Sarah: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Trevor Holland: of unexpected feeling. So and and the same thing happened to me two days ago. I bit my cheek and it sounds like such a minor thing. And I know it hurts like fuck whoever you are. But when I bite my cheek, it it's it's such a strange feeling that I try to explain to to anyone who has any interest in finding out. But it's difficult 'cause like it hurts a shitload, but it's a sudden shocking feeling. So I feel like I feel like someone's just club me round the head with a baseball bat and because it's such a shock to my sensory to my nervous system it also gives me a massive adrenaline rush Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: and it makes me just so for those few seconds like so fucking angry and I get I I feel fizzy you know I feel fizzy like I can almost like I can see stars like I'm like and I have to just sit Sarah: YAH! Trevor Holland: there and I'm like And I grow Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I growl to myself a little bit because I'm like I feel o honest to God and I'm not going action hero on this again, Sarah, but I feel Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: like at all times I I'm like Bruce Banner trying to hold back the Hulk from coming out. Sarah: Smash. Trevor Holland: But I do smash. I smash Sarah: Yeah? Now I get it. Trevor Holland: I smash it up. Sarah: I get it. Because I'm like that when I've got ready and I've done my hair, I've done my makeup. I'm running probably like five minutes late and then I've got my bag on and then I get my crutches ready and then my bag will drop off my shoulder and it's like I've put it back on and then I've dropped it again and I'm like you fucking bastard and I'm like and then I'll get my keys and then I'll drop my keys and that's it then. I'm done. I'm not fucking going. I am NOT going. That's it. My day is ruined. And I'm too hot. And I'm like, I feel like my makeup's dripping off. My makeup is dripping off. My makeup's fine, but my makeup's dripping off my face because then I'm too hot. Trevor Holland: think what it w so we've got we've got very us neurodivergent folks d not generalizing but we tend to have very heightened senses in a lot of ways. Sarah: Yes. Trevor Holland: so it's not that we're more I don't know that we're we're we're more wow. It's it's not that we're we're we're pussies about it. It's that those Sarah: Yeah? Trevor Holland: feelings genuinely are more intense for us. Sarah: Yes! Trevor Holland: so every single thing is is is is heightened. So yeah, Sarah: Yeah, it's all out of the door. Trevor Holland: it is. So every single Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: bit every sensation feels stronger. Every Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: time something touches your skin it feels it doesn't feel like it feels for other people. Sarah: yeah it's like I could feel you could feel like every little bead of sweat running down your face and that little itch on your on your clothes and you know that you're running late to that in your head and then it fell off again and it's just like I am gonna I'm gonna fucking explode and I'm gonna smash something up and then I like go fuck and my boyfriend's like what's the matter and I'm like fuck I've nothing to do with you and I'm like my god I've just shouted at him and it's not his problem and I'm like and then just feel like shit. Trevor Holland: I honestly have to meditate like I can fit I'm I I have to mi I I practice mindfulness and I have done for years. I don't do it as often Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: as I should do perhaps because I've I've I've done that as a way to try and let you know do you know about mindfulness? Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: Right. Yeah, so it's not about trying to get rid of anything. It's about the let's just try and accept what's happening and be present for Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: it and just let it kind of rush over you and let it pass and then so I try to do that. Like when when I feel it bubbling away, you'll you'll sometimes see me you'll hear me go like Sarah: I'm Trevor Holland: 'cause you'll know that the grow that the growl is coming. But then I will just I spend a few seconds doing that. If I don't and and if I don't spend long enough doing it, then something else happens while I'm in the middle of doing Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: that. I'm like, No, I'm not gonna scream today. I'm not gonna scream today, but then I'll be like FUCK YOU Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: And I'll just And I lose my fucking shit. And that it'll just and I th I did it again. I let it I let it I let it get on top of me again. But the but you need to release that valve, don't you? Sarah: Yes, sometimes you just have to. Trevor Holland: Do you get the embarrassment afterwards every single time? Does it feel like a right prick? Sarah: yeah yeah yes yeah all the time because like sometimes when it's like happening when i'm going out the door i'll just go and sit in my car and i'm like dickhead you absolute dickhead like that was so small like what are you doing like it's so shameful and you're just like and i sit and put my sunglasses on and i'm like why have you Trevor Holland: You just need Sarah: just done that Trevor Holland: have you ever been in a sensory deprivation chamber? I really want to try that. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Cause sa some people apparently they really freak out when they go into one. but I'd love to be able to see what what it feels like for an autistic person to go into a sensory deprivation chamber. You can't see anything, you can't hear anything. And you're floating, so you're not really touching anything apart from the the flo Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: the the the w I wanna see what that feels like. I think we should do that. We should go on an adventure, the two of us should go to Sunlight Sarah: You reckon? Trevor Holland: Cent Century Deprivation Place and and see what that's like. I wanna see what it's like. Sarah: Should we go? Yeah, okay. Trevor Holland: I just wanna see. 'Cause I I I I get really envious of of people who who can just filter stuff out. So I'll so I do Sarah: I know. I know. Trevor Holland: this I do the stuff that most that that most neurodivergent people do. I'll put sunglasses on when it's not that sunny. I'll put my earbuds Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: in, I'll put my hoodie up so that, you know, I feel a little bit more kind of enclosed in my own little bubble. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: And I do that kind of stuff all the time. But that's not enough because I can still fucking hear everything and I can still Sarah: yeah and yeah Trevor Holland: see everything. Sarah: yeah i have pink sunglasses Trevor Holland: I wanna just Sarah: for inside because like i don't even like i don't like the light inside i have pink sunglasses i wear my sunglasses all the time i wear hats like i must like look like i don't want anybody to speak to me at all time because you're always saying to me you're always out you're always and i'm like yeah but i don't want anybody to talk to me Trevor Holland: How how good are you good at giving off a vibe of don't talk to me? Sarah: I told you the other day that my face when I'm out is like this. Trevor Holland: yeah, you're right. You did say that. Sarah: Yeah, but then people just do tend to speak to me, like, and I've always got my earbuds in and I'm just like, what? Trevor Holland: That should be the that should be the that should be the thing though. That's that should be enough. That should be enough. Sarah: Yeah. I know. Trevor Holland: I would never fucking dream of going up to somebody with their earbuds in and Sarah: that. Trevor Holland: and trying to engage them in conversation because they've got like, what? Right. Sarah: Yeah. And I'm always like, and then I put it straight back in and then they carry on like, seriously, like, look, look after me. I must have, I don't, like my mum always says to you've got one of them faces. And I'm like, my face is like Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: this. I don't, because my brother speaks to everyone. My brother loves speaking to people. And he's like, but don't you just enjoy it? And I'm like, no, I don't. I don't enjoy speaking to strangers. Trevor Holland: Do ever get it s where sometimes you do though? Sarah: Sometimes I do. I like speaking to people with dogs because I want to know everything about the dog. That's about it. Trevor Holland: Every time I walk past somebody with a dog, I will every single time without fail I will wave at the dog and I will speak to the dog. I will say, Hello, darling and I'll just carry on and I won't even acknowledge that the person exists. Sarah: yeah that's what i'm like i'm like hello can i say hello to your dog please and if they're like yeah i'm like to the dog but that's about it Trevor Holland: Yeah. I I I I I have a the e every now and then I don't know but when maybe the ADHD s takes the driving seat for a for a s a short period of time and I'll just sometimes I won't see it coming but sometimes I'll just be in the mood to Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: interact with people. And I'll Sarah: You. Trevor Holland: and yeah, and I'll be and I'll be quite chatty and gen genuinely quite kind of I don't want to say the word, but normal. I would like to talk to someone like I'm a normal boy. And I'll be like, hey, Sarah: a god. Trevor Holland: hey, how you doing? Yeah, so weather. yeah, stuff. yeah. What about what about that football? yeah. Sarah: What the hell's the matter? Trevor Holland: You know, and I'll just do that and then I think afterwards, shit, Sarah: weird. Trevor Holland: I just I just did talking with somebody, you know and I I Sarah: my god, I just did socializing. Trevor Holland: Yeah. But then I do realise it all comes to a head when I know that I've got to end the conversation 'cause I still don't know how to do that. So I I always go like Sarah: Yes. Trevor Holland: anyway, but Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Better shoot need to go over there now. And it's really Sarah: Yeah, Trevor Holland: awkward. Sarah: my mum does a thing where she goes, all right then, or every single time, every time. And she does it at the end of every phone conversation and my brother hates it. Because goes to me, he goes to me, my mum just did the all right then to me. And it's every conversation and he goes, and I fucking hate it. She does it again, all right then, all right then. And it's like, just say goodbye. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: Just say you're done with the conversation. Just say you've ended it. You've said everything you need to say. Trevor Holland: So I wanted to ad I wanted to address the elephant in the room which is the the I had my pip assessment yesterday. Sarah: Yeah, of course. And how was that? Trevor Holland: Well, it was over the phone which was not bad because Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I didn't have to go anywhere. now I don't know what it's like for everyone else, but I actually spoke to a nurse. I didn't know that they spoke I thought it was just some fucking spod, who Sarah: Yeah, usually is. Trevor Holland: yeah. But yeah, this was this was a nurse who seemed to actually have a vague understanding. Vague, but a vague understanding of Sarah: That's Very good. Trevor Holland: of of some of the kind of more Route One cliche kind of symptoms of ADHD and autism. The ha the the headlines. It's just got she've got a sort of grasp of the headlines. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Trevor Holland: but from the research that I did, I was getting the feeling that overall their objective is to try and basically debunk you, right? And try and trip you up. and and and try and catch you out. Thing is, right she hasn't met me. You don't you d Sarah: I know. Trevor Holland: you don't catch me out because I'm the most fucking pedantic person you're ever gonna have the privilege of meeting. Because I'm I'm Sarah: Really? Trevor Holland: Yeah. What whoa come on fucking hell man read's Sarah: I that was sarcasm. I know you don't know sarcasm, I know, I'm sorry. Trevor Holland: sake Sarah: I should, I'm gonna have to like make little signs, sarcasm. Trevor Holland: One of the things she asked me she asked me about it when I get overwhelmed and she said, When you get overwhelmed, how do you feel? And I said, Overwhelmed. What the fuck do you want me to tell you? I get overwhelmed when I'm overwhelmed. Well, do you want me to define what overwhelmed means? Because that's a different conversation. but then I I played the game and I answered. But at one point, and I think I told you this yesterday, she fucking asked me how tall I was. And this was around and this was around a conversation that we'd been having where she asks me if I am capable of cr of of cooking for myself or or just preparing food. And I said, Yeah, I am and I try to do it a few times a week. th the caveat to that is that I have a smoke alarm in my kitchen which gets a hell of a lot of fucking use. I get most of my meals from HelloFresh which are pre portioned and you have very specific step by step instructions and I still manage to fuck that up quite frequently. About fifty percent of the time the stuff that I cook is is undercooked or overcooked. You know, I Sarah: So, in this case, Trevor Holland: I can do it but it's n but it's not and she said, Well, do you do you eat enough? Do you f do you do you get do you forget to Because basically in my application form I said that I occasionally forget to eat. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: And she misinterpreted that. What I meant by that is sometimes I forget to eat 'cause I'm hyper fixated on something and then I will Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: realise, holy shit, I'm fucking starving. Because we Sarah: Yeah, yeah, that's what I do. Trevor Holland: because we don't always feel the feel although we've got heightened senses, we don't always it's a bit of a juxtaposition, but we don't always pick up the signals our body's sending us. So, for Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: example, it's not all I could do with a piss in a bit, it's my god, I'm gonna fucking piss myself if I don't go to the toilet right now. Sarah: Yes. Yes. Trevor Holland: Every every single piss that I have is desperately needing to happen. Sarah: Desperate, yeah, yeah, same. Trevor Holland: And it's the same thing when you're hungry. You're like, fuck me. shit, I'm gonna pass out if I don't eat something. So you go and eat something. So I Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: I do eat, but I don't always eat immediately when I'm when when other people would. So Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: that's but I didn't realise that that's what she was doing. She asked me how she asked me my height and I literally said, What's that got to do with anything? She was like I'm trying to calculate your BMI. And I was thinking, well, just fucking ask me for my BMI then. I'll tell you it. But you don't have to do the calculation for me. Just to Sarah: You Trevor Holland: ask, you want to know what my BMI is? Ask my fucking BMI. And I told her how tall I was, and then she asked me how much I weigh. And then I heard her fucking working it out. She said, so you're a healthy weight for your height. I'm like, Yeah. And I'm I know because of the conversation we had about me being fat previously, I'm like. Sarah: See you later. Trevor Holland: Fucking yeah, I'm a healthy weight for my height. First time anyone's ever fucking said that to me. and then she said, But you said in your application that you forget to eat, but you obviously eat enough. Sarah: my god. Trevor Holland: And I said, I do eat enough. I just don't always do it at the right time. So that's the first thing. And she asked me when I'd last gone somewhere new for the first time because I was laying it on quite thick, that I don't really go anywhere and do anything new. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I I like everything to be pre planned as much as possible. Sarah: Yeah, Trevor Holland: And I couldn't really think of one. So I said, I don't know, I went to a funeral like ten years ago. because I had to go to a place I'd never been and and that that that's that's that's all I could think of. But then she started asking me about my job and asked me how long I'd had my job And this was the closest she came to to catching me out. Because she was asking me all these questions about how I felt when I was going to my interview for the job. And I said, This is fucking years ago. You're asking me about stuff that happened years ago. And she said, Yes, but I'm trying to get some context, because you just said you've never gone anywhere new for ten years, but you had this job interview less than ten years ago. And I said, well, maybe I'm misremembering, which is part of the fucking reason I'm here. Because I sometimes I forget stuff. Sarah: Wow. Trevor Holland: So she was she you know, Sarah: my god. Trevor Holland: she was like, Haha, but what you said this I'm like, Yeah, I did say that. I've obviously fucking made a mistake 'cause you're asking me to recall things that happened a decade ago. Sarah: That is wild. Trevor Holland: But I managed to get one up on her when she said, How do you feel when plans change at the last minute? And I said, Well, sometimes I will there will be a meltdown, but what version of that I don't know. Depends on the situation. Sometimes it's a an inward meltdown where I'll shut down. Sometimes it's an Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: outward one where I have a bit of a tantrum about it. But then she asked me when's Can you think of an example of the last time that plans changed at the last minute? I said, Yeah, I can tell you exactly what I can tell you two weeks ago when this call was postponed for the second time. And she went, and how did you feel? Sarah: Boom. Trevor Holland: How did you feel? I'll tell you what I felt. For about an hour I sat down completely paralyzed. I didn't tell the bit where I did an Instagram reel about it. I I I I sat down completely paralysed. I couldn't speak to anybody, I couldn't do anything, and I just sat there and stared at the wall for an hour and said, really? For how long? I said, Like I said, about an hour. What the fuck is she up? Anyway, top and bottom of it is, I feel as though there's absolutely no fucking way they're gonna say no. But Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: yet, from the conversations I've been having, that's exactly what they're gonna do. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I didn't ask for a copy of the notes. What I'm hearing from people is that oftentimes these notes are a complete fabrication of what actually happened. Do you c do you claim PIP, by the way? Sarah: Yeah, yeah, but I've got physical disability. Trevor Holland: Yeah, I know it's different for you, but but the actual experience of getting it or applying for it w was was it similar? Sarah: I had someone come out to the house and mine is for indefinite for my physical disability so I wasn't even diagnosed ADHD with autism when I got mine so it wasn't Trevor Holland: So y yours doesn't have neurodivergence as a factor in it, it's just purely your physical Sarah: Nope. Trevor Holland: side. Okay. Sarah: Yeah. Cause I was only diagnosed two years ago and I've been physically disabled since I was a kid. Trevor Holland: Yeah, yeah. Sarah: yeah. But my ex boyfriend, can Trevor Holland: Mm. Sarah: I even say this? Cause he's my, fuck him. He was, he's an asshole. He was autistic and he went through the same process with Pip. And he, I went with him to his, PIP assessment and he had a face to face and his PIP assessment was all fucking lies fabrication and it was absolute bullshit when we got the notes back and we had to go to tribunal and he wouldn't but the notes were a joke like there was so many lies in it and I was there like It was wild the stuff that they had in there. Trevor Holland: I mean they said from the from the she said from the outset, the right at the beginning of the conversation that it's being recorded, the whole conversation is being recorded. If you've got an issue with it being recorded, it's not gonna have an impact on your claim. But if you have got an issue then just say so now. And I was like, No, go ahead. So they've got a they've got a verbatim recording of the conversation. Th I didn't ask for the notes 'cause I didn't think to. So I don't really know I I guess I get a decision and then at that point if I might what the fuck then I can then look and say w w what Sarah: Yeah, you can request them, yeah. Trevor Holland: you're basing this decision on and then I'll just but then I'm thinking she's a fucking nurse. So surely she's not gonna just talk out of her ass about it. But I don't know. I think I'm I'm I'm flittering between having faith in humanity and what I'm hearing from literally every single fucking person I've either spoken to or read their Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: account on on on the autism subreddit. about just how much of a horror show it actually is. 'Cause I think Sarah: Yeah, it is. Trevor Holland: I feel like they they they they they if they refuse you I think they're banking on the fact that you're not gonna fight it. Sarah: yeah they do because he wasn't gonna he wasn't Trevor Holland: Because it's such Sarah: gonna but i was just like it's all bullshit like and you you're entitled to this so and so was his sister she was she was very much like you need to you need to fight this Trevor Holland: I mean When I first applied for it, I applied because I thought, you know, this is this is something that I'm technically entitled to but I was kind of Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: con was a little bit conflicted about whether I needed it. but now things are very different because I because you know, I'm I'm having to have conversations with my employer about whether I can still physically work full time because it's it's it's so I I get burnt out so so much now that I I'm thinking I'm I I'm gonna have to start stepping back and not working full time, which is terrifying to me. I don't make a huge living. I make a decent a decent living but l losing it like losing one day a week is over a month a lot of money. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: and I'm like Losing that one day a week isn't ev isn't even gonna be covered by Pip. but I'm like, this is exactly the kind of thing that this is for, isn't it? So like I I Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: ha I have to only work four days a week for the sake of my sanity. Let's see if it can be topped up a little bit by by Pip because that's exactly what that shit's for. Sarah: Of course. Yeah. Trevor Holland: but yeah, it's it's it sucks, man. And it it every time that they postponed the call, although that pissed me off, I'm like You're gonna backdate this shit anyway. So when I when I do eventually get it, they're gonna have to backdate you to the day I'm I I s I sent the application in. So the longer you fucking drag this shit out, the more you're gonna have to pay me anyway. Sarah: Exactly. Trevor Holland: so yeah, that was my that was my thing. You had a thing you said you wanted to talk about. You you wrote it you you text me about it and then I said save it. What you said y you had a y Yes, that's right. That's right. Sarah: the thing that I texted you about the other day. The weird thing that was going on in my head. the other week, this was about an eaten thing. So, I was on a shoot. I'm filming something with my friend and I'm directing it and I'm acting in it as well. I only ate breakfast and we were filming late into the night. and I was getting home, I thought I was getting home at about 10 o'clock. I like, I don't need anything to eat, I'll be fine. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: And so I was driving home, it was going to be an hour drive home and I texted my boyfriend like, can you make me something to eat? And then I decided, no, I'll just pop into Mackey's and it was a good job I did because on the way home, there was a traffic jam, which was an hour long. So I didn't end up getting home until 11. However, I know this is all just blah. But I didn't stop. I just went through the drive-through and I didn't stop. I was deciding to eat it as I was driving, because I'm dead clever. And I like to eat my Mackeys in a very specific way, right? Trevor Holland: T take me through it. Sarah: So I eat some of my chips, then I eat all of my burger and then I eat the rest of my chips, right? But because I was driving on a motorway, don't recommend this guys, I couldn't hold the steering wheel. I need all the chips, open the burger and get back to the chips. And in my head, I was going... ape shit because I really wanted to eat it in this order and I couldn't do it and so I wasn't like I couldn't cope so I was eating some of my chips and then I opened the burger and I could eat it but then I couldn't like get back to the chips and like I was genuinely I was genuinely thinking pulling over on the motorway Trevor Holland: That's what was gonna say. I was like, why didn't you just pull over and eat it? Sarah: on the motorway. Trevor Holland: No, but not on yeah, I just mean find something. Okay, Sarah: I was on the I was on the move, did I? Trevor Holland: yeah, yeah. Sarah: But like, I was having like this like... Just eat them. What is wrong with you? Just eat it in like a different order. Trevor Holland: But it it's it but it ruins it. It's not the same. Sarah: but a neurotypical person would just edit it in that way, Trev. I know, but like, I've Trevor Holland: Yeah, well fuck them. Sarah: never, no, I know that, but like, was Trevor Holland: Uh-huh. Sarah: just, I was proper struggling and I'm like, just fucking drive home and like, and I also don't like eating after nine o'clock. So I was in that as well. And I'm like, my fucking God, you're like, you're 39 years old, get a fucking grip of your life. and then I hit the track, this traffic. my god. I was losing my mind. I genuinely thought I was losing my mind. But then I was like, as a, go on. Trevor Holland: But did the I was gonna say, did the traffic not afford you the opportunity to okay. Sarah: No, I'd already finished it by then. I ended up finding a little wet and shoveling it all in. I was like... When I was a kid, I remember just eating... Well, I still do. I eat in a very specific order and I don't like things touching things. And I like having me plate a very particular way. if I like things facing me... Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: but I was having this really internal battle in me my mind over this McDonald's if you've not ever done that. Trevor Holland: Well, I don't drive. Sarah: No, okay, not driving then, but like with food, do eat it in a specific way? okay. Trevor Holland: Well don't ask don't well don't ask don't don't ask these fucking you've asked me a question. I'm gonna give you an answer to that question. Sarah: along. Trevor Holland: Have I ever done that? No I haven't 'cause I don't drive. But but yes. And I was i I was intrigued by by what you said about the order. My order's slightly different to yours. Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: I'm chips for days, like start with the chips, finish all the chips, then Sarah: Yeah. Okay. Trevor Holland: open the burger box, chow down on the burger. What I was intrigued by is you only mentioned the chips and the burger. You didn't mention any any drink. Was there one? Sarah: I get apple juice because I don't drink fizzy drinks. No. Trevor Holland: Do you d do you not drink milkshake? Why? Sarah: just don't like milkshakes. I know. Trevor Holland: What the fuck? I mean no, that's fine. Live live your live your life. Sarah: Because sometimes they'll go right through me and I'll get the shits. Yeah. Yeah. So it's hit and miss. Trevor Holland: okay. That's fine. I'm what fucking say Sarah: So I just don't want to risk it. Trevor Holland: W that's a hell of a way to end the conversation. Because it's like what am I gonna do? Am I gonna argue with you that you don't like you don't like Milch? No, I'm gonna I'm gonna get the shits of a okay. I suppose. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, it's hit him miss, like... And I was on the move so he went, I saw. Trevor Holland: So that was my thing. It was chip it was chips, then burger, then milkshake. And the thing is Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: the milkshake's on a limited shelf life because the temperature, unless it's a really cold day, that shit's Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: melting by the second. But I can't start that milkshake until everything else is done 'cause it's my pudding, basically. It's my pudding. Sarah: Okay, okay Trevor Holland: So I can't do like the have a fistful of chips, a bite of burger, a sip of my milkshake and then just start doing that's like some fucking some kind of pedophile or something. Sarah: see, I have to. Trevor Holland: no no, but what I'm saying is I won't like fuck Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: about with it. It's like this is this, then that, then that. And Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: even but even if by the time I get to the milkshake it's just brown milk by then, I'm like, well, that's just the way it has to be because it Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: you know, I've missed my my my window of perfect milkshake. But doesn't matter because but then I'll eat th y eat everything else really quickly because secretly the thing I really want is the milkshake. So I'd be like, I Sarah: the milkshake here. Trevor Holland: eat that shit really. I don't have I don't have McDonald's at all anymore. I'm talking like old school Trev. And I'm a vegetarian Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: as well, so I don't I don't know even I don't even eat meat anymore. But shit. Well when when COVID came around and milk and Mackey started delivering, that absolutely changed my life. for that period of time 'cause I was like all those times that I've had to sit in McDonald's 'cause 'cause as I said, I don't drive, so going Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: into a drive thru and just eating in the car isn't really a thing. So for me, historically, McDonalds has always been you go there and you sit there and you eat the stuff in there. that's a bit of a fucking joyless experience. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: And I've always thought to myself, Wouldn't it be nice if I could sit in front of the telly at home eating a McDonalds? It just felt like a pipe dream. It felt like I was like talking like a sci fi language, like that's never gonna be a reality. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: And then we have a global pandemic and suddenly you can get fucking McDonalds delivered to your house. I'm like, That's pretty sweet. Sarah: soon. Trevor Holland: But then I started having McDonalds like three times a week. Sarah: no. Trevor Holland: And it was always shit by the time it got to me. It was cold. It was fucked. Sarah: Yeah. I know. Trevor Holland: It was always fucked. And the chip the ch the you know, we keep calling them chips, Sarah: types of phrasing. Trevor Holland: but they're fries, aren't they? We keep calling them chips. But but they Sarah: Yeah, I know we have fries, yeah. Trevor Holland: go they go fucking floppy and cold and gross. And I Sarah: Nah, that's it. Trevor Holland: and then like I've just spent twenty you know, 'cause I get something for Sarah and I I've just spent twenty five quid on McDonalds. And it's I just I've just paid twenty five quid for this cold, gross shit. Sarah: I know. Trevor Holland: Yeah. So how long did it take you to get over that feeling? yeah, you're in the you're in the car, you wanna eat stuff in the right order, but you can't, and then you get stuck in traffic. By the time you got home, were you over it or were you still feeling a bit Sarah: Now I at a K-momental and I was like, just felt weird that and he's like, yeah. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: But it's weird, isn't it, 'cause you're talking to you you're talking to people like us about that. It's like you're not gonna get a reaction out of me when you tell me the story, apart from like, of course you have to eat it in a certain order, of course you do. It's like, well why don't you just eat in another ord e why don't you just eat it in a different way? I'm like Because that's just not how it works, mate. You you don't do that. You do with the way it has to be. We've got s we've this is the fucking thing. We've got a very Living in our brains is you are spending your life walking on a tightrope at all times. And there's a lot of wind. It doesn't take much to knock you off the fucking tightrope and make you fall to your death. There's a reason why everything has to be a certain way. Because if it's not a certain way, you are falling off the fucking tightrope to your death. That is how it feels. Sarah: Nah. Trevor Holland: It's so delicate. Everything has to be lined up because we are so sensitive to everything. Everything has to be right. And if it's not right, if one of the millions of things that needs to be right isn't right, then nothing is right and everything Sarah: Yeah? Trevor Holland: is horrible. And that's what people don't get. It's not we're not we're not just being picky. We're not being sensitive. Our nervous systems and everything is set up in such a way that everything has to be perfectly aligned because it's such a a sense a delicate ecosystem that we have, right? Sarah: Yeah. Now. Trevor Holland: Am I talking shit? No. So that's what these motherfuckers need to think about. Just just wind your neck in, mate. so we had a guest this week, Sarah: We did. Trevor Holland: Brionie Moss, who was someone that you referred to the podcast with your extensive Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: extensive network of people that you know. So tell us a little bit about Briony Moss. Sarah: Bryony is one of my friends, she's a disability activist, Instagrammer, model, social media influencer, creator, she does it all doesn't she? And I worked with her a few months ago on a campaign and we just hit it off straight away. She's a little boss. She's just, she's great, love her. Trevor Holland: What and what I'd like to add to the list of things that you said to describe her, in with all of the love absolutely all of the love in the world, batshit. Sarah: She is absolutely fucking nuts. Trevor Holland: No. Sarah: Cheers. Trevor Holland: In the nicest possible way though. J just the just the Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: kind of batshit that makes pump the kind of batshit that makes someone completely endearing and makes you fall in love with them. Not not the Sarah: Yeah Trevor Holland: kind of batshit that makes you think like No thanks. No, she's like I w I wanna speak to you every day kind of batshit. Yeah, she's fantastic. Sarah: Yeah, I tell her so. She's the perv. Trevor Holland: I mean you you may pick up from the footage. There were moments where I was like, I don't know How the conversation got to here. I don't know what question I asked you if you answered it like that. And I'll start questioning myself, think, what did I just say to you that made you say that to me? And I didn't really get it. But I just thought, I just fucking just let it let it wash over me. I'm just gonna go on this fucking ride now. Just let it happen. Sarah: think I had to see her back like three times but I was just like okay. She's just, Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: she's just great, I love her. Trevor Holland: So yeah, best not to analyse sometimes. It's just let the conversation happen. But it was really nice. Sarah: now. Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: It was a really nice chat. She's a fascinating person. Talked about AGHG in particular. obviously that being the main the main theme of the podcast. But obviously she go on. Sarah: and hang on she joins in with me beating you up so Trevor Holland: I don't I don't know how much of it was recorded because you two started Sarah: you Trevor Holland: bullying me the second the the second she joined the call, you were both calling me a knob. Sarah: You're gonna ride it. Trevor Holland: You no i I won't edit any of the bullying at all. But I I I know that it started before I'd even really said hello to her. She was calling me a knob ed. she was bullying me with you. I was getting full on stereo surround sound fucking torture from both of you. but what was I saying? Sarah: Sorry. Trevor Holland: no, no, it's fine. It was just a really nice, really nice chat. She's got cerebral palsy. That didn't come into the conversation as much as I probably would have liked it to because you know, I was s I was focused on ADHD so I wasn't really thinking about about the about the other stuff. But it's fascinating having a conversation with her. And also just the method by which she was told she had ADHD is really fucking weird. I've been meaning to think I've been thinking about it Sarah: Yeah, absolutely wild wasn't it? Trevor Holland: since she said that yesterday, I've been thinking, what the fuck was that? Sarah: I know. Trevor Holland: What what what do you mean a speech therapist told you you got it? And then then and then the G P said, what do you mean? I'm sorry, I'm spoilers, but the GP was Sarah: I know. Trevor Holland: like, What you mean you didn't know? What no, 'cause no one fucking th the fuck That's a new way of doing it. Sarah: and how it was just unbelievable. Trevor Holland: But yeah, Brianie was fantastic. Now Briney can be found on Instagram at defeating disability, where you'll see loads of content where she talks about her fitness journey because she's really into her fitness. And she she Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: has she has a personal trainer, so she she has kind of a adaptive fitness routine that she uses. you'll see some of her modeling stuff and she talks quite openly about life with it with physical disabilities as well as life with ADHD and some of the misconceptions. that come with that so really really good stuff there to learn a lot about so definitely give her a follow and also you know let's just be selfish about it for a second because we have to you need to follow shouty brain on Instagram especially given the fact that as of sometime probably today or tomorrow Sarah's getting the keys to the Shouty Brain Instagram account so she's gonna have access it's Sarah: So it's going to be so much more fun now. Trevor Holland: gonna be so much better now. Is because it'll be someone else talking, not just me. just talking such shit. You know, I feel for I feel for the fact that I've managed to I've managed to accumulate eleven hundred followers over the last few months and they're being subjected to some real horseshit. So Sarah's gonna be bringing a little bit of freshness to it. So yeah, give give yeah. So you Sarah: And I have a dog. I have a dog. Trevor Holland: you'll get dog content, Teddy? Yeah. You'll get Teddy content. Obviously you'll continue to get Sam the Goblin content. Yeah. You're gonna get I mean that's a given. That's gonna happen. Until you change the password and lock me out of the account. Sarah: Hahaha Trevor Holland: So yeah, give that give us a follow on there and as I always say, look, if you enjoy this podcast, just do us a huge favour and and engage with it. So, you know, subscribe to it, leave a comment, leave a review, especially if you're listening slash watching on iTunes, because that really does help us to grow and get this podcast out to as many people as possible. So please do interact. best way to get in touch with us is through the website shoutybrain.com. So you'll see a contact us page on there, but also a lot of other links to social media and YouTube and all the other stuff. So you know, bookmark the shit out of that page. And thank you very much. without further ado I guess Sarah we should we should s let everyone see our beautiful conversation with Brian, yeah? Sarah: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. Trevor Holland: So guys, we'll be back afterwards, but for now, enjoy Brian. Listen out for the for some reason talk of dog shit very early on. Welcome Bryony to Shouty Brain. How you doing? Bryony: I don't really want to thank you, how are you? Trevor Holland: I am excellent. Well no, I'm not excellent. I'm I'm alive. We we we survive another day so far. I've I've had I've had a morning mixed a mixed morning of sensory experiences in the supermarket that have made me want to just stab myself in the head. But but I'm good, yeah. You know you know what happens, right? when when when you when you ask someone how they are and Generally speaking, it's just a pleasantry. And it's just like the Bryony: Yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm okay, yeah. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: that's the expectation. The expectation is, yeah, not bad thanks. But you're never gonna get that from me. You ask me how I am and I'm gonna tell you exactly how I fucking am. I'm in a bit of a grump, mate. Sarah: yeah he's never just gonna be fine he has to offload all the sing every single time Trevor Holland: I don't know. but yeah, thanks so much for joining us early in the morning, Bryony. It's lovely to see you. Bryony: Thank you for having me. I woke up especially early for you. Trevor Holland: Did you really? Sarah: Love it. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Are you not an early birds? You're not a you're not a morning person. Bryony: No, I'm not. Trevor Holland: shit, are you gonna be really grumpy with me? I don't need any more gr Sarah: She's not because I'm here. Bryony: Yeah, I've got Sarah to like calm me down. Sarah: See, me karma? I never karma anybody. Trevor Holland: No, she stresses me the fuck out. So Bryony, your your Instagram bio would say to me that you are an actor, a model, a creator, a disability and mental health advocate, adaptive fitness girly, sorry, I can't read my own handwriting. Sarah: useless. Trevor Holland: so thank you. Would you be able how how would you pigeonhole yourself as those things? What are you what what would you put on the top of that list of the things that you are? Bryony: ADHD. Trevor Holland: shit. Bryony: Yes so so yeah like me and Sarah actually met on a shoot didn't we Sarah Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: and we kind of just headed it off and to be honest we clicked didn't we I would say and Sarah: Yeah, straight away, yeah. Bryony: we kind of just got each other's brains because most people don't get my brains Trevor Holland: Null. Sarah: She's got multiple brains. Bryony: I mean, I can go from talking about what I have for dinner to like talking about space to talking about my dog's shit. Trevor Holland: What about your dog chip? Sarah: There you go. Bryony: You know, have you got a dog? Trevor Holland: No, but I've I've seen dog shit before. Bryony: No, but you know, I've got two dogs, so this is the problem that I have. They're both trained, but ever so occasionally do they do it in the house. So, Trevor Holland: Did I eat it? Bryony: no, no, no, that's too much. But, Sarah: I have a daughter, Bryony: so, we always have discussion, Matt. No, I'm not. Sarah: Are you Maticator's Bryony? there you go. Bryony: So, thank you, Doctor. So basically, we had this discussion of, whose shit is it? Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: but it's between the two dogs, right? Not someone else. Bryony: Yeah, so Sarah: That's I was going to ask. Bryony: my mum thinks it's Bella, my female whippet. I think it's Mango, my male whippet. So it's just a running thing we have. Every so often. Yeah, whose shit is it? Trevor Holland: Who whose shit is it? Yeah, that's a good it's a good game. Sarah: the game. Trevor Holland: I played the same game with my wife. Sarah: See you in Shazam House! Bryony: no. Sarah: Anyway, going back to what the original question was, when you ask whether she's a model or Trevor Holland: What was the original question? Sarah: an activist, whatever, we met doing a campaign for TransPenile and Express, didn't we? Bryony: Yes, we did. Sarah: And it was a content creator campaign. Trevor Holland: Okay. Sarah: that's how we met and we just... there was a few other disability content creators there but me and Bryony: Yep. Sarah: her were just together the whole day and literally we just laughed the whole day because we just like... we just got each other Bryony: It was like, it was like, it was like a noon for years. Literally. Sarah: Yeah, literally and and even the photographer asked us if we'd met before I mean like we've known each other for five minutes Like I have never seen this girl in my life but We were like this and it's like Just go on prev No, there was there was Trevor Holland: Was it just the two of you? Or were there other people? Sarah: there was a was a camera crew Bryony: There were other people but Sarah: there was a camera crew a photographer There was other content creators. There was the there was the agency We didn't talk to anybody. My boyfriend was there. I didn't even speak to him. And your mum was there, wasn't she? Bryony: Yeah Yeah, it's like Sarah: We don't need anybody else. And people were asking us like, how long have you known each other? We don't know each other. And all of the photos from that day was just me and her laughing our heads off. And he was so candid, the photos. And they were amazing, weren't they? Because the photos were amazing. Bryony: So were you. Sarah: because they were just that natural because we were just laughing. Trevor Holland: Do you find that in in in life in general, like when this is a question for both of you, when when you and I kind of touched on this on the phone with you, Sarah, yesterday, when when you meet someone who's neurodivergent, it doesn't necessarily and you're neurodivergent yourself, it doesn't even necessarily meet need to be a conversation where you even even know that about each other. You have a kind of radar for it. And the second you start talking to someone Bryony: Yes, yes. Trevor Holland: who's neurodivergent, you're suddenly Just oversharing, unloading, Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: and suddenly you've met your best friend and you just Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: Yes. Trevor Holland: will just talk and talk and talk and you're like, Finally I can be myself and finally some Bryony: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: someone I understand when I'm talking. I do exactly the same thing. You see it a mile off, don't you, when you meet somebody. You're like, Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: wait a minute, you're one of me Bryony: But I find it really weird because like I have a PT and he's neurodivergent. He's got ADHD and I think he's got autism as well, which is hey-ho. But like I've been with him like this was two years ago when I first was with him and I was just I just said to him, do you have ADHD by any chance? And he was like, yeah, I do. How did you know? like, I don't know. I just have like this like radar of knowing. But then loads of my friends now, we all have something. Trevor Holland: Yeah. It's just the way Bryony: It's just thing. It's like a magnet. Sarah: It's like you gravitate towards them. Yeah, yeah. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: You really do and I that's something I'd never thought about before. When I you know, I I was diagnosed with ADHD at twenty eight. I'm forty three now, but I was diagnosed with autism this year. so now I'm like I'm fully in in the club. Like I feel I feel because it's it's I've been thinking more and more about it, you know. I'm realising That I'm kind of disengaging from anyone in my life who isn't neurodivergent in one way or another. and I'm not doing that on purpose, but I'm a kind I'm kind of bored of having to deal with them. Bryony: Yes. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: So the people in my life who are neurodivergent including my wife who, although not diagnosed at the moment, is on the waiting list and it's pretty clear to to me that she is. I just wanna hang out with those people and I don't really have the energy with other types of people anymore. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Makes me feel a little bit exclusionary, but at the same time it's nice to be part of a community now, right? And I I just wanna Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I just wanna hang out with everyone in that community. Bryony: but also it's like it gets tiring trying to like explain yourself So then when you don't have to explain yourself, then you find yourself being with those people more, I find. Sarah: Yeah because like when you're with other ND people it's more like when you do interrupt or when you're talking over them or it's the traits that you're doing you don't have to say Bryony: Mm. Sarah: like I'm sorry I'm doing this or I'm doing that because they just get it. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: Like when I haven't text one of my ND mates in like three weeks, five years and I'm like I'm sorry I haven't checked in they're like it's fine because neither have I and it's this reason like it's caused Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: amortistical or whatever you don't need to say that because they just get it because that's what they haven't done either Trevor Holland: Mm. It is and and Sarah: But your neurotypical mate is just like, you don't exist and you're a bitch and that's all that. And it's like, well, no, I just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bryony: Or you didn't check up on me and you're like fuck Sarah: Yeah, yes for fuck's Trevor Holland: And Sarah: sake. Bryony: Yeah! Trevor Holland: And case in point, right? And I don't wanna I I'm not trying to like throw shade or make you feel any kind of way, but you interrupt the shit out of me all the time, right? But you're wanna but Sarah: enough. Trevor Holland: but I don't care because it's because it's you and I understand why you're doing it. But other people interrupt me, I'm like, Fucking shut up Bryony: Yeah, they give you dagger eyes. Trevor Holland: Yeah. I hate it. I hate it. But a neurodivergent person interrupts me. I'm like, crack on. We're all in we're we're all fucking struggling through Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: through this shit, aren't we? You wanna you you gotta get this thing off your chest immediately? Do it. It's fine. Sarah: Just give them allowances, it's alright. Trevor Holland: So go on. Bryony: you know what I don't like though I love Christmas Sarah: You Bryony: but I hate Christmas because you know Christmas you have to like go and see everyone my god about people you have to see and then it's all like this person thinks like you know like auntie Karen like you like fucking what's over talk yeah you just interrupt like I'm Trevor Holland: Yeah. Bryony: just me Sarah: You Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you have all sorts of different types of people. Yeah. You have to navigate it. Bryony: The social cues, I'm just like no. I tried that, it didn't work. Trevor Holland: Honestly, I I I th I thought I was just sh a shy kid. I've talked about this in other episodes, but I just assumed I was just a shy kid because certain situations made me so uncomfortable and I thought I was just painfully shy. And I think shyness was part of it, but I had no idea that I was autistic and I had no idea how tiring I found these kind of things where my mum and dad would drag me to Uncle Bob's or to my granddad's or something. I had to just hang out with all these people. I'm like, But your house their house smells funny. And and Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: and the people there like have weird rituals. They they don't do the same routines that we do at our house and they eat weird shit for their dinner and they watch weird stuff on the TV and there's th th their sofa cushions feel weird when I sit on And it's like all of that stuff that just doesn't makes me feel weird and end of the weird conversations you gotta have I just wanna go home, I don't like this. And I thought it was 'cause I'm shy, it turns out it's just that kind of environment sucks, man. Yeah. When did you find out you had ADHD, Briney? Bryony: Yeah, it's that Sarah: No. Bryony: Well, not that longer actually I actually got told by my speech therapist and you've got ADHD Sarah: Just like that. Bryony: Just like that. I was like, what do mean? She's like, all the things you do is ADHD. I went, that makes sense. Trevor Holland: Okay. When was that? Mm Sarah: How did you feel about that? Sorry, Trev. Bryony: You know what? Trevor Holland: hmm. Bryony: I'm not really into labels because I'm just like, I'm me, but it made a whole load of sense. I was like, this finally explains this and this and this and this. And then I went to my doctor and he went, no one's told you before. I said, well, no, no one has told me. But now I know, so thanks. And he's like, I thought you would have just known. And I'm like, no, I'm just me. Sarah: How are you supposed to know? Bryony: I know, so how am I meant to know? I'm just me. And the thing is for Trevor Holland: Is that how you're diagnosed these days? Bryony: my family, I'm just me to them. They're like, well, that's just Bryony. Sarah: Yeah? Bryony: She changes the conversation every five seconds at the dinner table, drives us all mad. Trevor Holland: Just eating your potato I was about to say Sarah: Talks about talk shit. Bryony: Yeah, doesn't doesn't doesn't listen about anything. Trevor Holland: How so it it y you felt apart from the weird kind of way you were told, which sounds fucking wild to me, but i it's it f it felt for you like things were making sense a little bit more, yeah. Bryony: Yeah, yeah, like why I don't like certain textures. Why like if I go to like my cousin's house and I have to sleep there, why I don't like, you know how everyone has their own like bed and you like it how you like it. But when you go somewhere else like a hotel or whatever, the bed is not the same as your own bed. Stuff like that. Trevor Holland: it sounds like there might be some autism in there as well. That's I mean with the Sarah: Did your doctor think that you'd been diagnosed as a kid? Bryony: I think so, I don't really know. was just like, well thank you very much for telling me that. Sarah: wild. Bryony: But there's all this Trevor Holland: So Bryony: thing now about too many adults are being diagnosed with ADHD and I'm like Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: no we've always been around it's just you guys haven't checked or had the things to check or whatever Sarah: Yeah, yeah, you did a post on that recently, right? Bryony: Yeah, I'm just like... Trevor Holland: Yeah, exactly. And and I mean we could we c I try not to open open open fucking Pandora's box when it comes to that report that came out the other Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: day. but It d it doesn't say it's being overdiagnosed, it says that it's something that's in danger of happening because of the some of the you know, the the some of the private clinics who are who are diagnosing seem to be not turning anyone away and whatever w whatever, whatever, whatever. It's Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I said it's I commented on that post of yours, Brian, it's like what are you trying to say? If it's being overdiagnosed, you're suggesting one of two things. You're either suggesting that your people are being diagnosed that don't have it, or you have a certain fixed number of an ex an acceptable number of people who have it and if anyone else goes over that number then you're not allowed to have it. Whereas that either Bryony: Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: one of those arguments is fucking stupid. You you got it, you get told you've got it. Doesn't matter how many of you there are. Bryony: Yeah. No, doesn't matter. Trevor Holland: so what's has anything has anything in your life changed for you since you got diagnosed? With any like the way that you approach things or anything? Bryony: actually when I tell people they go that makes a lot of sense now Trevor Holland: Yeah. Bryony: for me understanding like why I don't always get things where I'm like slow or like social cues or like awkwardly standing there like do I say something now do I not like do I hug this person do I not hug this person well Sarah knows this I can like yap yap yap yap yap to England So when I click with someone, I click with them. So yeah, it's just like, it's kind of like just finding your people really. But I think that's why I found school so hard, because it was all these like, you're in different groups and like you got paid by your groups rules and I'm like, I don't know. Sarah: Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about because when I saying about we just clicked straight away, like how did you find Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: like making friends growing up and keeping friends and what is your friend groups like now? Bryony: My friend grew up in the school, I don't have any of them left now. Sarah: Okay. Bryony: Just because we have not arguments but I say we grew apart. Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: You know, really different to people. I mean, like I say to everyone, like, with my social media, they message me if they've like gone to my school and they're like, I've known you since you were 12. I'm like, with all like respect, you don't know me because I'm a completely different person from when I was 12. Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: I think now I'm definitely more confident. The types of people I hang out with tend to have like ADHD, autism, anything like that really. And it's not, it's not by choice, it's just the people I like go towards. Yeah, Sarah: take to. Bryony: that's a good point, yeah. But then that helps because we're all on the same page like if I message one of them and they take like four days to reply I'm just like well that's... Sarah: Yes. Bryony: Whereas if I did that to like my old friends they'd be like you haven't messaged within five minutes and I'd be like because I'm doing this right now and then I forget and then you know... Sarah: Yeah. dog. Trevor Holland: god, is there a sh th Bryony: dog Trevor Holland: it's a sh there's a shittin' dog? Bryony: Yeah dog, god. She's trying to Trevor Holland: They're crapped anyway. Bryony: get, yeah. I think, I think the thing is, I think there's so much pressure now that you have to have such a perfect relationship with everyone that you kind of just forget to live. Trevor Holland: Yeah, that's true. So I'm interested in your in your fitness. You spend a lot of time in the gym. Talk to you about it. 'Cause it's it look it's it's like w one of the things that you spend a lot of time doing. Bryony: Well, I really enjoy it. I mean, I found a gym that understands my conditions really, really well. I mean, my PT has his own conditions. There's other people that use the gym who have all sorts of different conditions or being diagnosed or on the waiting list. it's kind of nice. We just chit chat about that and like our experiences, you know, dealing with. Doctors that don't know how to put things in a very polite way or like, does this happen to you? yeah, that's happened to me or just things like that really. But I think it's also like a safe space for me because where I go, I don't go at like very, very busy hours because I know for a fact if there's so many people, I'm gonna get triggered. And so I like have my set time and they know and they're like, yeah, that's a good time for, this is how many people roughly come in this time. We recommend you come in that time just so it's a bit better for you. But yeah, I found that it's like really like supportive. Trevor Holland: So what Sarah: How'd you get motor? Trevor Holland: No, no, Sarah, go. Sarah: get motivated to keep going. Bryony: so I get like, well, my PT like motivates me when I'm actually there, even though I do take the piss out them all the time, which is so much fun. but I get like little notes, like send up to me. So like little like messages that are like, you can do this today or sometimes I have zero motivation and we will literally just sit there for however long it takes and just talk about whatever it is. Sarah: No. How do you get motivated to leave the house to go? Bryony: So to leave the house, I have a support worker so she's really good at trying to get me out and about. Sarah: Okay. Bryony: Just like, even on days where I'm like, I can't be arsed to get out of bed. Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: Or like, I'm just not feeling it. But I know from experience that if I'm in a bit of a crappy mood, whatever, I know that after that session I'll feel better so I can try and Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: keep telling myself that. Sarah: Okay. Bryony: I mean, to be honest, I was kind of surprised that I've stuck with the gym this long. I wasn't even thinking I would. And people around me would tell you the exact same thing. They're normally like, get brains going through that phase. That will last about three weeks, if that. But I think it's because Sarah: Yeah. Okay, cool. Trevor Holland: How long? Bryony: I found people I could relate to. So then I could be myself more. And Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: I could not having to like mask. Trevor Holland: How long have you been doing it for then? Shit. Yeah. That's gone Bryony: Like two years now. Yeah. Sarah: Wow. Trevor Holland: past that's gone past the kind of the limit of flashing Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: the pan thing that you're gonna do for a bit and then fuck off after a while. It's kind of set that's that's Bryony: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: it's bedded in now. So you said that you you go at certain times because otherwise you might get triggered. What what would that look like then if if it was if it was busy, what would getting triggered look like for you? Bryony: The noises so not just people talking about like the music Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Bryony: don't know what I, people say I do weird things but I don't really know what I do. I become like very quiet. I don't really want to be in like around people in the space. I'm not actually that, like I sound like I'm social. I'm not actually that social. I mean, I'd rather be at home doing something or like, you know, like a party or something. I'd rather like, I don't drink and stuff. So I'm just like, well. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, I'm similar. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: As much as I like to talk to people and go... because it drives me always, you're always out doing things, aren't you? I like being at home and being in my own space and doing my own thing at home. Bryony: Yes. Sarah: I draw... actually, I don't drink, don't smoke, I don't do anything, just like I'm not. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: So I'd rather be at home with my dog, which is just like chilling Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: out, yeah. Bryony: Whereas like my sister, she hasn't got any like ADHD or anything and she's like out and about clubbing and everything. I'm like, no, I can't be asked with that. I Sarah: Yeah, that's not mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bryony: can't. Sarah: I like going to the theatre. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: Yeah. I like going to the theatre. Bryony: I'd rather just be like in bed watching Netflix or Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: just... Trevor Holland: Yeah, I I'm the same. I think that's something that a lot that a lot of us us folks have in common is that we we like we like what we like, but we like our kind of sanctuary, right? We like our safe space. We Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: like to be at Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: being at home is honest to Christ my favourite place in the world. Sarah: same. Trevor Holland: And just knowing that I haven't got to go out and do anything. You know, I start I started a podcast that required that that only requires me to go to my spare room to do it. And there's a reason why I chose that. It's like fucking hell I don't have to go out Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: to do it. Of course I'm gonna do Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: it. I love it. I get to meet people, so I get to Sarah: I'm meeting people but I'm meeting them from my house. Trevor Holland: like tick the box of forging new relationships but not actually having to go anywhere to do it. God bless technology, my friends. Sarah: I Trevor Holland: Isn't it wonderful? Yeah. you had a couple of questions, Sarah, don't you that you took me through yesterday, so did you want to crack on? Sarah: Yeah, so other than the gym vibe, what hobbies have you hyperfixated on and sacked off? Bryony: Horse riding, I absolutely love horse riding. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, but you still do that. I want to know what you've done and got rid of. You don't do any more. Bryony: what I've got rid of. god there's loads. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: Sell me. Bryony: At one point I thought I was gonna learn to play guitar, never happened. Sarah: Okay. Trevor Holland: I did that one. Bryony: What else? yeah I thought like this weird thing about I'm gonna write a book that lasted maybe about three three pages. Sarah: Okay. How many pages did you get? Or lines? three pages. Bryony: That's somewhere, I don't know where that is. What else have I done? You know, it's just like, learning to roller skate, that didn't last at all. Yeah, Sarah: your balance. Bryony: I know. Don't ask me, I don't Sarah: my good god. Bryony: know. Sarah: my good god. Okay. Okay. Bryony: Stuff just you know, which with stuff like that Sarah: Yeah, yeah, but that's an interesting one. Trevor Holland: Roller skating, wow way. Sarah: Have you seen Air Balance? Trevor Holland: No. No, so is Sarah: Jesus Christ. Trevor Holland: it would you would would there be would you be a danger to your Bryony: Go to A &E. Trevor Holland: s really, yeah. So you with ro have yet did you actually did you actually get to the point of trying it or did you just think about trying it? Bryony: No, I did try it once and I thought, no, this isn't going to work. Trevor Holland: So how how did it go? Was it awful? Bryony: Yeah, nearly smashed into the wall. Trevor Holland: Wh wh where are you doing it out in the streets? Sarah: Can you? Bryony: I was thinking my garden. Trevor Holland: I mean that's that's it could be worse. I mean at least you didn't you didn't like just go straight to like the the skate park and be like, Yeah, fuck it. Bryony: No, no, no. Sarah: Imagine, parkour. Bryony: ride the bike as well. I've still got the bike. Sarah: much love. Trevor Holland: It gets expensive as well, doesn't it? When when Sarah: Yes! Trevor Holland: you and that's one of the things that's often overlooked. It's it's not just Sarah: and that, yeah. Trevor Holland: it's not just the kind of constant disappointment that you have this like thing that you're really passionate about that suddenly you don't give a fuck about. It's also like, but I spent all the money, man. Yeah. Sarah: No, because I go... and I go all in. Like, if I'm Bryony: Yeah Sarah: going... because I started knitting and I knit a whole scarf but then I bought like wool in every colour and then I thought, maybe I can crochet. So I tried that. I just couldn't get the hang of it and my patience like... I bought the crochet needles in every size. I bought books on crochet. bought... I think I've still got... the books on here somewhere and then I bought a crochet bag to hold the needles I bought different crochet wool things because it's different and then I spent I spent a fortune and then I wanted to talk to you about this when we talked about the I was going to gym last year and I bought so much gym gym outfits and I just look Bryony: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: so cute I bought hats Brianie, I bought sweatpants. Why? Like, I was like, yes sweatpants. And I was going to the gym with my brother and he's like, why the fuck are you wearing sweatpants? And I was like, Bryony: it Sarah: just because I look cute. And he's like, you don't, you look like a weirdo. I was like, well, I'm coming to the gym, so. Bryony: you Sarah: And I went to the gym for three months and then dislocated my knee. And was just like, yeah, not going again. And I've just got loads of gym outfits, so. this class. Trevor Holland: I think you could probably repurpose those sweatbands though and actually just have them as as accessories that you just decide to wear. I I think you could I could get you could get away with sweatbands. Yeah, exactly. You could do that as well. Sarah: I mean I could crochet them but I can't crochet. Bryony: I'll call Garty. Trevor Holland: So that's it now. That's it th th the gym's done for you forever now, is it? Sarah: No, I've just done a campaign with This Girl Can and they got me back into movement but I was doing dancing. I'm a dog. Trevor Holland: What you dancing? Sarah: I'm I'm sorry. Bryony: with ripped bands Sarah: No, I know it's my fault. I've been dancing in the living room as like my form of exercise and then they came to the house and filmed me so I'm gonna be on channel four or studio four or something doing that. So I can't, I just can't, I can't talk, it's so embarrassing. Trevor Holland: Yeah, but if it's gonna be on on T V you're gonna we're we're gonna have to you're gonna have to confront it at some point. Sarah: I know, I know you're gonna see, I know he goes, Bryony: I'm watch that. Sarah: it's gonna be hard at some point, but I start, so I dance on my crutches and when they film me I start using my crutches and hair cut off, I just go. I got way too into it, she's gonna too. Trevor Holland: What was this for? What was the Sarah: campaign called This Girl Can. This isn't about me, this is about Bryony, let's get back to Bryony. Bryony. Trevor Holland: Okay. yeah, but yeah Bryony: No, this is interesting. Trevor Holland: we're not gonna fucking just brush out brush that under the fucking carpet. You're playing a guitar in your house on on your crutches with your sweatbands on. I know you d yeah, I know, but Sarah: I wasn't wearing sweatbands, thank you. Trevor Holland: but in my head that's what's happening now. Sarah: I had a lepreprint, it was to share and I had a lepreprint crutch and I got way too into it. Bryony: Were they laughing? Sarah: They were absolutely fucking pushing because I was a legend, okay? Trevor Holland: So when's this on? Sarah: Shut up! Bryony: I love it. Sarah: This will air very soon and I am not sharing it anywhere so you won't see it. Trevor Holland: you're gonna have to. Bryony: You might want to tell your agent, don't share it anyway. Sarah: It'll be on This Girl Can. They've got like a Bryony: Fuck. Sarah: hundred or not thousand followers. Trevor Holland: can't wait. That's no, that's great. Sarah: I'm gonna go Bryony: that'll be funny. Trevor Holland: That's been reposted. Fuck. Sarah: Right, back to Brian, thank you. Trevor Holland: Yes, back to Bryony. So what what would you say, if you can remember it? What's the most expensive waste of time that you've done? Have you got shit sh yeah, Bryony: waste of time. Trevor Holland: like you got shit in your house that you ri that you were really into, but then got bored of. Bryony: got one the other day Strava. Trevor Holland: yeah. Bryony: I only realised, I don't use the app, I realised yesterday how much I'm paying. Trevor Holland: It's expensive. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: How much is it? Just out of interest. Bryony: about 54 pounds a month. Trevor Holland: And you just can't be asked to Sarah: And you're not used to it. Trevor Holland: And is it something you Bryony: So I to get, I obviously cancelled, but yeah. Sarah: And how long have you been paying for it? Trevor Holland: It's good, isn't it? It's good s when you realise. You're like, I've been doing that for the last five years. Yeah. Bryony: Yep. Sarah: Do you ever go in your wardrobe? Bryony: But it is true. Like with ADHD and stuff you do forget. It's like a thing. Sarah: yeah yeah it's a yeah it's the adhd tax do you ever go in your wardrobe and find clothes in there that's still got tags on Bryony: yes, all time. Sarah: yeah and you're like i forgot i bought that three years ago Bryony: Mm-hmm. Or I go, that's nice. I bought it. Sarah: It's like you're going shopping again in your own wardrobe. Bryony: Yeah! Trevor Holland: That is the good thing about that shit is that you find stuff and you get to experience that feeling all over again of discovering it. Right? Like you g he did he did he've done it once already, but that's been completely expunged from your mind. So you had the experience once, you forgot about the experience, then you find the thing five years later, like, look at this and then he's just got this thing and then the whole thing you can do it again multiple times. Sarah: Not when it's food, Trev. Trevor Holland: No, not when it's like bread and shit. Sarah: Yeah, that and that pisses me off when I go into the kitchen Bryony: Okay. Sarah: and then I'm like, I really wanted to eat that two weeks ago. Trevor Holland: I have never done it Sarah: Hate that. Trevor Holland: with food. Never done it. Because nothing's ever been there long enough to go off. We 'cause we we d Sarah: What? Trevor Holland: you we've talked we've not we've not talked about the fact that I was really, really fat until about a year ago, right? Sarah: No. Bryony: No. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah, I was well fat. Sarah: What? Trevor Holland: Yeah. I was fucking enormo Sarah: Fuck off. Trevor Holland: I was fucking enormous, Sarah. you d this is this is Brianie, this is proof that she doesn't listen to the fucking podcast that she now works on. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: I listen to the ones that I'm on. Bryony: What did you do then to lose weight? Trevor Holland: Well Bryony: Just not eat. Sarah: No, he's just said that he eats because everything goes off in the fridge. Trevor Holland: Well, sort a sort of look, I don't wanna be too dark about it, but I basically had an eating disorder. no, no, no, no, no. Bryony: sorry, I didn't realize, sorry. Trevor Holland: I don't care. I I I Sarah: soon. Trevor Holland: like leg legitimate food addiction. Like absolute like Bryony: Was there like a certain food that you liked the most? Trevor Holland: sort of. But I was a quan I'm I was a quantity kind of guy, right? I would just have have Sarah: okay. Bryony: Okay, yeah. Trevor Holland: an absolutely huge amount of food. An embarrassing amount, like ten thousand calories a day kind of amount. Sarah: Wow! Bryony: Jeez. Trevor Holland: like a four course lunch that would involve sometimes two tubes of Pringles. Sarah: Fuck off. Trevor Holland: Yeah, like a fucking hu Sarah: Wow. Trevor Holland: huge amount of ice cream, a whole cheesecake, a KFC, a family bucket. And you know Sarah: Wow. Bryony: Why are you not, Sarah: Okay, so what did you do? Trevor Holland: So I I developed bad knees. I d I developed like the the level of my self hatred and depression just went through the roof. Bryony: Mm. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: I got diagnosed with liver disease because I was just beating be Sarah: wow. Trevor Holland: beating the shit out of it with all the food. And I was drinking a lot back then as well. I was just falling apart at the seams. I could barely walk up the stairs. Sarah: No. Trevor Holland: now someone without a physical disability. It like it felt like I was electively giving myself one, right? Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah, ahead. Bryony: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: It felt like I was trying to give myself a physical disability, which is, you know, the privilege that I've got to not to not to not have Sarah: Yeah, of course, yeah. Trevor Holland: any physical disabilities. And I well, why am I trying to give myself one? Sarah: You Trevor Holland: I was k basically I was killing myself. I was forty years old, but I f I felt like I was in the body of someone twenty years older than that. I hated everything about myself. and I had no energy whatsoever and I was in a bad mood all the time and I didn't see a way out. I I thought Bryony: Mm. Trevor Holland: this is basically gonna be me for the rest of my life, but how long's that gonna be? and I I just didn't see how I was gonna turn it around because I tried to multiple times in the past and Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: I'd yo yo dieted, Bryony: Yeah Trevor Holland: I'd lost a bit of weight and I I if you looked at my a graph of my weight over the years, it would be a weird kind of staircase where it goes down and then up higher, down and then up higher and down and up. So I'd lose a bit but then I'd put more on each time. Bryony: yet. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: So I ended up in a position where two years ago I weighed thirty two and a half stone and I basically was almost immobile. I c and I thought I've got to do something about this. So I Realised this you've asked you've asked me how I did it guys by the way, you're getting a long story. Bryony: Have fun. Trevor Holland: I went to Sarah: You wouldn't think he was ADHD, right? Trevor Holland: I went to the I went to the doctors and said to them, look, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this on my own. I realised I'd I met the criteria for for bariatric surgery to have my stomach stapled. Bryony: I Trevor Holland: w went on the waiting list for that. Went to the hospital for my first appointment with the people to talk about it. And was just so depressed when I got there because they had all the furniture in that hospital was adapted for fat people. Like all the chairs were really wide Sarah: wow. Bryony: Mmm. Trevor Holland: and all all the stuff was for fat people. And I'm like, they're special adap it's all adapted for fat people. I'm like, I need to have adapted shit now because I'm that fat. And then I sat in the room with the woman and she said to me, Right, you'll be on the weight in this, but you we we give you a task and that task is you need to lose five percent of your body weight and keep it off for the next six months, then we'll put you on the waiting list for the surgery. And I was like, Fine, I'll do it. and then they said, We will see you in six weeks for another appointment. That was two years ago and I haven't heard a single word from them, by the way. And I thought this was exactly what I needed to kick off my my my this kind of the only bit of male pride that I have is kind of fuck you guys, I'll do this without you, assholes. I was like, fuck you man, I'm not gonna go on a waiting list for surgery and sit Bryony: No. Trevor Holland: and sit in a fat man chair. I'm not gonna be I I'm I'm not gonna have to I'm not gonna go all go through all this stupid shit. I'm I what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna lose this weight and the next time you call me in for an appointment I will no longer be eligible for the surgery because I would have lost too much weight. That and then that and that became my motivator. So I I went home and I downloaded my fitness pal, which I'm sure both of you would be aware of, right? Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: because I realized there's absolutely no way that I can do this without being completely accountable for every single thing that I eat. So I need to to Sarah: Cheers. Trevor Holland: track every single thing that I eat and I still do two years later. and I just started doing it and just something s had switched in my head that said this time I'm gonna do it and I lost nineteen stone. Sarah: Fucking hell. Bryony: Cheese. Trevor Holland: And now I've got bingo wings for days, spare skin all over the fucking place. But to answer your question, that's that's why I would never let anything go off in the fridge. I still am a fiend when it comes to food, except I because I log every single fucking thing, I'd be like, I'm gonna eat some ice cream today and I'll put it in the app and I'll be like, well, I can do that. But I'm gonna have to walk an extra half an hour to to qualify to do that for the calories. So yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. So later on I'm gonna go for another walk because I need to burn the calories to enable me to have the ice cream that I'm gonna have later on. And that's how I have to do it. I have to make deals with myself all the time. But it works, man. Bryony: Mmm. Trevor Holland: It works. I'm now a skinny motherfucker for the first time in my life. Sarah: Wow, Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: that's sick. Bryony: Incredible. Trevor Holland: And I contacted HelloFresh and I know you've got fucking HelloFresh, Bryony, 'cause I see your Instagram. Bryony: Yeah, I love HelloFresh. Trevor Holland: I contacted HelloFresh recently and I said, by the way, 'cause that's another thing I didn't tell you, I did Hello I I've been doing HelloFresh because it's pre portioned and it i y Bryony: Yes. Trevor Holland: you can't overeat unless you eat your wife's dinner. You know, you're given the exact amount that you need and and you're not gonna overdo it, right? And I said so I emailed him and I said, you know Partly because of you, I've lost two hundred and fifty pounds. Would you want to talk about that? And they never got back to me. Which is a bit about I'm like, that's a big f I know that I'm not I'm not like a big influencer, but I I I I Bryony: Yeah, but that's still really light. Trevor Holland: can vouch for the fact that I lost a shitload of weight using using Sarah: That's monumental though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: your product. I thought that'd be quite a good fucking endorsement personally. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: So you and I are gonna work on that shit, Sarah. We need to get back onto their asses. Sarah: Yeah, I will do that. Trevor Holland: Yeah. That's the story. I don't know you know why why why I started talking about that, but that's why I I was fat and that's why I'm not fat now. Sarah: sweet. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: I need some of that motivation. My motivation's shit man. I just quit the stuff. Bryony: Do you know what I do? Is I found that like, if I'm on social media, right, I've got rid of, and it's not because I don't like these people or I think they're bad, but I got rid of so many accounts that were like, for my fitness, for like, what's the word, sort of like endorsing Sarah: Thank you. Bryony: being bigger. And I get body confidence and I get all of that and I think it's amazing. But then I started following people. that I wanted to be more like or get those habits off them. So then I was just bit by bit just getting that and going, okay, yeah, okay, instead of having this for lunch, I'll have this for lunch. Or instead of having that much with my dinner, I'll cut my portion to a smaller size. And then from there, so I think the motivation comes from a lot of things around you as well. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah, there is that. I was like that. I dn I didn't do it so much with with kind of body positivity influences as much as lying to myself about how okay I was with the situation. and look, I I'm all I'm I'm like you, Bryony, I'm all for body positivity, and I'm not gonna come down on anybody who who has that feeling and and wants to and wants to you know, kind Bryony: Yeah, Trevor Holland: of put that feeling on to other people. Yeah, yeah, do yourself. Bryony: you do you, yeah. Trevor Holland: However, I think there are gonna be a number of those people who are not necessarily telling the truth to themselves about how they feel. Bryony: think for me personally, I think it's brilliant. If it's going to affect the way I live and you know how long I live for, that's when it becomes an issue. Trevor Holland: Hm. Yeah. so I I convince myself that it's okay to be to be a bit bigger and I was told my whole life, yo, you carry it well, you don't look that big, and then I'm like, yeah, but how that there's a certain limit to that when I have to like go to special websites to buy trousers. You know. but anyway, yeah. Sarah: Back to the friends stuff. Have you, when you were, so I found out when, not found out, when I was younger, I found that like, because I didn't know that I was neurodivergent, I used like, people please, I used to like, make everyone to like me, basically. Bryony: yes yes Sarah: Did you do that? Bryony: yep yep Sarah: example? You've got any examples? Like what did you do? I used to like mirror people. Like... yeah. Bryony: Yeah, I did a lot of copying or like, can't remember how it started, but like people then started saying to me, well, if you give me this, then that makes you like a good friend sort of thing. So I'd be Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: like, have this, have this, this or I'll get you that or. Sarah: I used to, when I was younger, I used to find that when I was meeting new people, I'd take them a gift. Bryony: Yeah, it's like stuff like that. Sarah: Yeah, it was weird. I used to like, I remember I was going around to meet me, well, I was going to meet mum's friends and she had two daughters and I went and got some jewelry out of my jewelry box. I was probably about seven or eight to give the daughters so they'd like me. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: Like, and now thinking back I'm like. Bryony: It's weird things like that. It's like, you have to like... What else did I do? Trevor Holland: Well, Sarah: Bye. Trevor Holland: we d we don't know the rules, right? Especially when we're kids. Sarah: Yeah? Bryony: Yeah, you don't Trevor Holland: We don't know the rules. It's not a natural instinct that that other people s seem to have. so w we're trying to work out what the rules are. And we're thinking, Sarah: Yeah? Trevor Holland: well well what would what would I like? if someone if Bryony: Yes. Trevor Holland: someone met me for the first time and gave me a fucking present, I'd like, Yeah, man, I'm your friend now. So that's what I'm gonna do for you. yeah, exactly that. Sarah: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And like Bryony: Yeah. Yeah, because, yeah. Sarah: gift-giving was always, wait, Christmas and birthdays and stuff, you're always like someone when they give you a gift. So was like, Bryony: yeah. Sarah: this is gonna be an automatic thing that they're gonna be my friend if I ever give them a gift. so, and of course they liked me straight away, but it wasn't like a natural thing. They weren't gonna be my friends for like life or whatever, or they just liked me in the moment because Bryony: No, it's not. Yeah, but. Sarah: I give them something. Bryony: It's like, I remember one time with my friend's birthday and I came to school with a balloon and a card and a present and like a cupcake and I was like, ooh, ooh, And now look back on it and I'm like, what was I doing? Trevor Holland: Mm. Sarah: Yeah, because nobody ever did that for me either. Bryony: No! Sarah: I never got, I never, it was never reciprocated and Bryony: No. Sarah: I, I always did that and it was just, I think I still do that now. Not as in like give them, but like I'm showing track. Where are they? I make these little... Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: and I still make them for people and just give them to like give them to people and my sister-in-law always says to me you should be should be charging for them and I'm like I don't I'm not charging for these I like making them and that's just one of the things I do and I like just giving them to people Bryony: Yeah, I'm like that. People are like, you need to think about the money. I'm like, nah, that can't Sarah: Yeah, and I'll just give them to like friends or whatever Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: and... And so it's still a form of me gifting, you know what mean? Like, maybe like me a little bit more. And I don't think I've even realised that until right this second. Trevor Holland: I think something switched in me and I still want people to like me as much as I always did. But something has switched in me where I want them to like me but I'm not gonna do anything unusual to make them like me. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Whereas before Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: it was like I'm gonna go out of my way to try and make them think I'm normal, and make them think that I'm likable Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: and I'm gonna I'm gonna mirror your personality, I'm gonna mirror all this stuff, I'm gonna wear the same sort of shit that you wear because that y y you'll think I'm cool then and all that kind of stuff. I was doing all of that, but now I've stopped doing all of that. But I still want everyone to love me. But I'm like, but I want you to love me for exactly what I am. And so Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: but they don't really. But it's fine. But exactly. But it's fine Sarah: That's because you're in a bed. Trevor Holland: 'cause at least I'm being fucking authentic about it now. You know. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Bryony: Yeah Trevor Holland: I think it's just maybe it's 'cause I'm in my forties and you've got this to look forward to. you just care a little bit less. you just stop caring quite so much. But I will still do it occasionally. and I do it subconsciously as well, 'cause I like I'm I'm from South London. I've been I've lived in Bedfordshire for the last ten or so years. And Bedfordshire there is no accent really. but I'm kind of sort of from I'm not from the ghetto, but I'm I'm from the ghetto adjacent area. so, you know, there are trees and shit, but there are also like dealers, dealers and trees. Bryony: Yeah. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: but if I talk to someone from the manor, I might I'll go straight back to that. if I talk to someone who's a little bit more on the kind of articulate side of things, I'll put my articulate voice on. I don't even know I'm doing it. But I s I spoke to my Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Bryony: Yeah, yeah you do. Trevor Holland: I spoke on the phone about six months ago, And he's full fucking South London I started talking like that on the phone to him. And I never ceased to speak l like that when I was a kid. But I was like Yeah, what you saying, bruv. It's like, what the fuck? I don't talk like that. Yeah, Sarah: You Trevor Holland: yeah, it's not good, man. It's not good at all. shit. Sarah: Whenever I'm in Liverpool, I'm way more skulls. And my brother always goes to me, right, Lana, what are you, you know, how you do, hey, what are you doing today then? I'm like, I don't speak like that. And he goes, yes, you do, you Liverpool, you're all right, I was going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Trevor Holland: I don't I don't know what say I I I don't know what to say to you, Sarah, and I don't know if Brian is gonna agree with me, but you're like the most scaled person I've ever fucking heard in my life. You are so fucking scaled, it's unbelievable. On a suc Sarah: Am I? Trevor Holland: my god. Yeah, I'll tell you what what I'll tell you the extent of it, Sarah. The fucking transcription software that I use doesn't understand you. I have to edit the fucking captions. I do Sarah: made Trevor Holland: I do wanna say it to you, man, but shit, yeah, you're scouse as fuck. Sarah: That's amazing. Bryony: That was brilliant! Sarah: Sorry, she loves speaking in different accent. Trevor Holland: No, no, don't change it don't change a goddamn thing. But I think you just need to know the truth. Bryony: Hmm? Trevor Holland: Right, before I forget, Bryony. If you could live in a fictional universe from TV or film, where would you and why? Bryony: Where would I... Do you know what? I was thinking about this Alice in Wonderland Trevor Holland: There go. There you go. Sarah: I've got that, where's my elephant ones lamp up on course? Trevor Holland: that's sweet. Sarah: Got them all. Bryony: Because anything goes. Sarah: My finger bit. Trevor Holland: Anything goes. And nothing may Bryony: You can do whatever and it's not weird. Trevor Holland: Nothing makes sense and yet somehow everything makes sense. Yeah. Bryony: I mean you can you can make yourself small, can make yourself big, you can... Trevor Holland: That's great. That's so you just wanna be in a world where everyone's basically on acid all the time. Bryony: Yeah! Sarah: Why not? Trevor Holland: No, that's great. Bryony: Just enjoy your life. Trevor Holland: Just go down the rabbit hole and keep going. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: There you go. That's good. That's very, very good. No, I like it. And I t I tell you, Bryony, I'm getting that from from the people that I asked this question to, the kind of although no one else has answered specifically that, everyone seems to answer in a similar way in the sense that they want to live in a in a kind of magical world of some description where where there's this kind of ev anything goes kind of vibe where where everyone's quite eccentric and and Bryony: Yes. Trevor Holland: you won't be seen as being an outsider, you'll just be one of the eccentric people rather. than just like Bryony: Yes. Trevor Holland: this person who sticks out like a sore thumb. And I think that's basically the th the theme that I'm picking up is everyone wants wants to live in a world where they are completely accepted for what they are. Which on one hand is really really lovely and on the other hand is really fucking sad. Because none of us do live in a world where we feel like we belong at all. Sorry to bring that Sarah: Yeah. Bryony: But then I heard Trevor Holland: down a little bit. Bryony: a quote the other day and it was saying, I can't remember the word for word, but it was basically saying, why do we care so much about what other people think of us? We're basically on a floating rock. And then I was like, actually that's Trevor Holland: If yeah. Bryony: so true. Trevor Holland: If you ever want to get shit in perspective and humble yourself and and realise how insignificant everything fucking is, just watch one documentary about space and you'd be like, well fucking hell, nothing matters at all. Nothing matters at all, you give shit. I mean we are on a fucking rock floating in nothingness, among other rocks Bryony: Yeah Trevor Holland: that are also floating in nothingness and sometimes they crash into each other. Who the fuck cares about whether milk is expensive? You know what I mean? The second question If your ADHD was something that we could switch off and just take away, would you do that? Bryony: No Trevor Holland: And why? Bryony: Because it's part of me and I think I wouldn't know who I was without it. The way I interact with other people, the way I see the world in the way that I see it. Trevor Holland: Hm. There'd be a real danger, wouldn't there? Because it's so interwoven into who you Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: are as a person and and and your DNA that to take it away, how much of yourself would you lose in doing that? you would just become something else entirely. You w you wouldn't be you. I think that's the important thing to realise, isn't it, that having ADHD or autism isn't just a isn't isn't like a bolt on it, isn't something that's just added on to added on to a person to to make you a different way. It's it it's it's absolutely just part of what what makes you a human being. To take it away would be to take take your soul away, I think. Bryony: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: How do you think your ADHD affects your physical disability? Bryony: I think they kind of work together. But it's interesting because people say to me, well, if you've got physical, you can like with ADHD, that's more like the mind rather than physical. So it's like interesting because I have to make adapt, adaptions for my physical. Whereas I know with my ADHD and the way I see the world, I sometimes don't see it, see it like other people. So I can come across as rude sometimes, even though I don't mean to be rude. I think it just depends who I'm around. mean, if I'm around people that know me really well, then they will understand. But if I'm talking to like a stranger, I've had like weird looks before, and then I'm like, maybe that was a little bit like, in their eyes, rude. need to, you know, maybe think of saying it in different sort of way. Sarah: So you, same question as Trev asked about your ADHD, would you get rid of your, if you could switch to thing, would you get rid of your physical disability? Bryony: I'm not going to lie, there have been times when I've said yes, I would, but then I think about the stuff that I've done because of my disability and I think I wouldn't have made those friends, I wouldn't have had those opportunities, so I wouldn't. And I think all of us, we all experience the world differently in whatever way we experience the world is like a gift. Because life would be boring if we all just saw the same thing all the same. Sarah: yeah and I think as well it shaped you as well into the person you are for me it has and it's made Bryony: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: you like resilient and strong and What? Do you think? Yeah. Bryony: Yeah, definitely. Trevor Holland: I mean I'm talk I'm I'm talking in from from an outside perspective here because I I don't have any physical disabilities at all. but I feel like all of us are kind of the a product a product of our experiences, right? So I just think to Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: to to change our experiences to something else would would just redefine rede redefine your life in a way that i i wouldn't make it yours anymore, I think. You know, I as I said, I'm speaking from a place of of of of ignorance on on on a physical disability point of view at least. But it's it's good to hear though, isn't it, that h however hard life can be sometimes and however challenging it can be and sometimes some days are just just just getting out of bed, just going out and doing anything can Bryony: Yep. Trevor Holland: just can just feel like it's impossible. And yet you can still sit there and say you wouldn't change it. Even if you could. Which is I think it's beautiful. Yeah. Well, I think that's a perfect perfect place to to bring things to a close then, Brian. I mean it's it's you you've you've you've touched us with profound words, you've entertained us with dog shit. You've done everything that ev ev anything that a beautiful guest could ever do for a podcast. I mean, holy crap. It was like that's one of the opening Sarah: and the dog shit happened so early as well, I what a diamond. Trevor Holland: opening statements. Like I can't remember what I even asked you, but I didn't think the answer to that question was gonna be sometimes the dog shit in the house. I'm like pardon? I don't I don't remember what I asked you, but thank you so much for the information. It's always good to know stuff like that. It's useful. So yeah, Brian, thank Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. it's Sarah: Yeah, thank you, my love. Bryony: Thank you for having me. Trevor Holland: it's been joyous to be bullied in stereo by two women. It's always the way I like it. yeah, so thank you very much. Keep in touch You're now part of the part of the Shouty Brain Society. You didn't ask to be, but you are now, so yeah. Th there's Bryony: Yay! Trevor Holland: th there's no unfortunately, it's not like being an organ donor where you can opt out. Now you're now you've been part of it, you're part of it for life and it's you're inextricably Sarah: We've gotcha. Trevor Holland: you're inextricably linked to the process and there's no escape, unfortunately. So there you go. You're in. You're in. Sarah: It's not an escape room that you can get out of. Bryony: No. Trevor Holland: No no. You're y you're in for life and you'll be sent your your your your monthly renewal document with the the the payment request and all that. That's that's all c we'll sort that out later. Don't worry about it for now. But that's coming and it's a le it's legally binding also, so cool. Yeah, thank you very much, Bryony. Lovely to see you. Take care of yourself, yeah? Sarah: Thank you. Bryony: Yeah, thank you. Bye. Sarah: I'm love. Thank you so much, Briany. Trevor Holland: yeah, cheers Briony. That was lovely, that was fun, wasn't it? It was Sarah: Yeah, Trevor Holland: it was a nice chat, wasn't it? Sarah: yeah, I really enjoyed it. Cheers, boss. Trevor Holland: Yeah, don't forget to don't forget to follow Briony on on Instagram at defeating disability. and as I said, just make sure you're following us because we're so important and we're so delic we have delicate egos. I don't know about you, Sarah, but I I I requ I need a lot of external validation and the best way to give that to me is by showing me some love on the internet. Do you feel the same way? Sarah: Yeah. I mean, sure. I'm an actor. Trevor Holland: All right. Sarah: So yes, I love, I was in love. Trevor Holland: yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So guys, as always, look after yourselves, look after each other. Have a lovely week. We'll be back next week. And be kind for fuck's sake. Sarah. What do you think? Sarah: See you later lads. Trevor Holland: Take it easy.