Latest / Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage / Face/Off vs Con Air

Transcript

Face/Off vs Con Air · Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage

• 0:00
  What you are listening to is real. The participants are not actors. They are real people with a case pending in Podcast Court.
• 0:10
  Hello, I'm Producer Peter and welcome to Cage Match, a roundabout way of meeting Nicolas Cage, Podcast Court.
• 0:15
  This is a case of a long-haired ex-con and a known terrorist who loves peaches a bit too much.
• 0:22
  Oh, God.
• 0:23
  Oh, my God.
• 0:42
  Peter?
• 0:43
  What?
• 0:45
  Just naked.
• 0:46
  Always.
• 0:47
  Dangling.
• 0:48
  Listen, man, the Dangle Downs got a dangle.
• 0:49
  Slanging and dangling.
• 0:50
  Slanging and dangling. Oh, man.
• 0:54
  So it's just been a long time since we've actually sat at the table and done this.
• 0:58
  So you get to come for our first fuck off episode.
• 1:01
  It's been like a month since Nick and I have actually had to talk to each other.
• 1:05
  You still choose to.
• 1:07
  Optional.
• 1:08
  Otherwise.
• 1:09
  Like fools still choosing to talk to one another.
• 1:12
  And Peter's like old now.
• 1:14
  I know.
• 1:15
  He also fucking forty.
• 1:16
  Yeah.
• 1:17
  Me too.
• 1:18
  And vasectomized.
• 1:19
  Not me.
• 1:20
  Yeah.
• 1:21
  I still got all my parts.
• 1:22
  Yeah.
• 1:23
  Nick just got his snipped recently.
• 1:24
  Yeah, it was real nice.
• 1:25
  Nice job.
• 1:26
  You got it.
• 1:27
  You got a souvenir knife out here as well.
• 1:28
  I got it right here in case I need to cut somebody from Dr. Snip.
• 1:31
  Yeah.
• 1:32
  Can you hand me that box cutter over there, Peter?
• 1:34
  Yes.
• 1:35
  Just to be safe.
• 1:36
  Just to be safe.
• 1:37
  I'll just use this as your bit.
• 1:38
  I figure this is probably more than enough.
• 1:40
  Yeah.
• 1:41
  We've definitely escalated here.
• 1:43
  Well, welcome back, Shay.
• 1:46
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:47
  Hi, I'm Sean.
• 1:49
  This is Cage, Matt, colon around about we've meeting Nicolas Cage.
• 1:51
  We're taking a different approach at this this time.
• 1:54
  How about you, Nick?
• 1:55
  Who are you?
• 1:56
  I'm Nick.
• 1:57
  Perfect.
• 1:58
  And Peter, who are you?
• 1:59
  I'm producer Peter.
• 2:00
  We're really crushing it.
• 2:01
  Yeah.
• 2:02
  Yeah.
• 2:03
  We got we got a fancy new intro that does most of the heavy lifting.
• 2:04
  That's true.
• 2:05
  Yeah.
• 2:06
  I don't need to explain what we do here anymore.
• 2:07
  No.
• 2:08
  Actually, that intro doesn't explain at all what we do.
• 2:10
  No.
• 2:11
  So we took 64 Nicolas Cage films and we are final four bracketing those down to Nick.
• 2:16
  It's cage is cage is film.
• 2:17
  Wow.
• 2:18
  I am out of practice.
• 2:19
  And then we'll get there eventually.
• 2:20
  And this is the start of the slicks team.
• 2:21
  Yep.
• 2:22
  Taken two movies, the action genre and arguably the two big ones.
• 2:23
  I'd say they are some of the most well known events in that action.
• 2:24
  But we're only here to talk about one of them today.
• 2:25
  Right now.
• 2:26
  Right now.
• 2:27
  Until later.
• 2:28
  And we talk about the other part.
• 2:29
  I got a question.
• 2:30
  But she won't be here for that.
• 2:31
  So she this is your third guest.
• 2:32
  Awesome.
• 2:33
  Welcome back.
• 2:34
  Welcome back.
• 2:35
  Welcome back.
• 2:36
  Welcome back.
• 2:37
  Welcome back.
• 2:38
  Welcome back.
• 2:39
  Welcome back.
• 2:40
  Welcome back.
• 2:41
  Welcome back.
• 2:42
  Welcome back.
• 2:43
  Welcome back.
• 2:44
  Welcome back.
• 2:45
  Welcome back.
• 2:46
  Awesome.
• 2:47
  Welcome back.
• 2:48
  Only second official episode though.
• 2:49
  Yeah.
• 2:50
  But I mean, G-Force really counts as like a double because it was so good.
• 2:52
  Actually, we did G-Force to test this very concept.
• 2:55
  Concept.
• 2:56
  It was ridiculous.
• 2:57
  I liked it a lot.
• 2:58
  Yeah.
• 2:59
  The nodes, man.
• 3:00
  The nodes, nodes.
• 3:01
  It's got that boom boom pow.
• 3:03
  I do think about nodes a lot more now because of that movie.
• 3:07
  For deliciousness.
• 3:08
  Absolutely.
• 3:09
  Yeah, I put that on yesterday in the background on the TV, just to annoy Nick.
• 3:13
  Hmm. I just didn't pay attention to it.
• 3:15
  It's that easy.
• 3:16
  Amazing. Amazing.
• 3:18
  So you're here to defend the honor of the lovely movie.
• 3:23
  Con Air. Con Air.
• 3:24
  Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
• 3:25
  Yeah. Give us an opening statement.
• 3:26
  Well, I saw Con Air in the theater, I'm pretty sure.
• 3:29
  So that's my relationship to it.
• 3:32
  The beginning, you know, it is a movie.
• 3:35
  It is an action movie about Nicholas Cage plays this guy, Cameron Poe.
• 3:40
  He does something to defend his lady and winds up in prison
• 3:45
  and through some happenstance ends up on this airplane that
• 3:52
  turns out to be full of crazy ass criminals, just the worst kinds.
• 3:58
  So naturally, he's there, too.
• 4:00
  There's a lot of action that happens and
• 4:04
  some weird shit.
• 4:06
  And then it ends pretty, pretty nicely.
• 4:09
  There's like a nice little bow on the on the end of it, you know,
• 4:12
  kind of typical action flick, but in the best way.
• 4:18
  No, that's OK. That sums it up great.
• 4:20
  Because after the initial 20 minutes, there is no plot to speak of.
• 4:24
  It's just action till the end.
• 4:26
  It's just them doing things to get to the thing we we've known
• 4:30
  that they've wanted to do since. Yeah.
• 4:32
  Yeah, that's all you need.
• 4:33
  20 minutes. Yeah.
• 4:34
  Don't try to put too much script or like
• 4:37
  concept into a movie about an airplane full of criminals.
• 4:42
  Criminals. Yeah. That's going to.
• 4:43
  They hide. Yeah.
• 4:45
  You don't want to. You can't go too far with it.
• 4:48
  People won't believe it.
• 4:49
  That's right. It would jump the shark too fast.
• 4:51
  That was definitely their mission here was to make a believable
• 4:55
  action flick for sure.
• 4:57
  Yeah. That's why I filed it under documentaries.
• 5:00
  Dave Shabelle doll is a very accurate representation of him.
• 5:03
  Oh, it's just like the one I've got at home.
• 5:05
  While it's unfortunate, he's in that movie.
• 5:08
  It's really great that he dies.
• 5:11
  And so, you know, it was kind of epic and hilarious
• 5:14
  in and hilarious.
• 5:16
  So, yeah, enjoyable all around.
• 5:18
  So the scene where he doesn't die, but they find his body
• 5:21
  and they like drop it on the car.
• 5:24
  Just a complete tonal shift from like gritty action movie
• 5:28
  to like kind of screwball comedy for all of two minutes.
• 5:32
  Like this movie, I love so much.
• 5:35
  It's just totally it is all over the shop.
• 5:38
  Yes, I think I wrote down in my notes that it is a an action
• 5:43
  drama thriller heist
• 5:47
  romance comedy because they do kind of like I mean,
• 5:51
  they hijacked the plane.
• 5:52
  So it's but they all have different roles in it
• 5:55
  and they had the schematics to the plane beforehand.
• 5:58
  And it's planned out.
• 5:59
  Yeah, it feels very heisty.
• 6:01
  I don't know. Yeah, they had prison to prison communication somehow.
• 6:04
  So right. Yeah. Don't worry about that.
• 6:07
  Yeah, it's been a problem.
• 6:08
  We've never really addressed about this one, but it's not a problem.
• 6:11
  It's fine. MC Gainey.
• 6:14
  Yeah. Always cool. That guy's great.
• 6:17
  Swamp Thing. He's probably my favorite of the convicts.
• 6:19
  Oh, yeah. Oh, OK.
• 6:20
  Well, have we talked about favorite convicts before?
• 6:23
  Who can? Yes, we have.
• 6:25
  It doesn't matter.
• 6:26
  Which one's your favorite convict?
• 6:28
  Now, aside from Garland Green.
• 6:30
  Well, OK, I guess I won't say that.
• 6:32
  No, you can totally say.
• 6:33
  I mean, Steve, Steve is just great in everything, in my opinion.
• 6:37
  So I really enjoy him.
• 6:38
  But yes, I agree. He's great in everything.
• 6:40
  Yeah. He's great.
• 6:41
  He's creepy as fuck.
• 6:44
  And I mean, but that's always what he is.
• 6:45
  So you kind of he's a human and he's really good at it.
• 6:49
  Yeah, I guess you're trying to think of the the murderers row of convicts.
• 6:53
  Yeah, I'm just going through the rolodex of convicts in my head.
• 6:57
  Well, you got pinball.
• 6:58
  You got I mean, Danny Tracey, Danny Trejo.
• 7:01
  He's kind of nobody should be.
• 7:03
  No, I'm not saying he's my.
• 7:05
  No, no, no, he's not.
• 7:07
  He's not my favorite convict.
• 7:09
  I just enjoy the fact that.
• 7:10
  Oh, yeah. That is such a weird choice.
• 7:13
  And we have like these just the first person initially like caricatured
• 7:17
  villains, we have Cyrus, the virus, we have pinball, we have like
• 7:20
  just these over the top, like comic book villains, Billy Bedlam.
• 7:24
  And then we have this guy who raped 23 to 500 women.
• 7:28
  Yeah, it's random.
• 7:30
  I just think it's random that he's there.
• 7:32
  And Danny Trejo is always just kind of a weird addition to things.
• 7:35
  One is, you know, but John Malkovich is kind of
• 7:40
  he's the the head of the Cyrus, the virus, Cyrus, the virus.
• 7:44
  I I like him, too.
• 7:45
  He's great actor. And so I really liked his character.
• 7:48
  He's just unhinged. Yeah, really.
• 7:51
  You know, he's always fun.
• 7:52
  Yes. My favorite was Moskowitz, one of the guys who got shot.
• 7:55
  Oh, who had no lines. Yeah.
• 8:00
  I really like Diamond Dog.
• 8:02
  Diamond. Having.
• 8:03
  Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah.
• 8:06
  And then the guy, I don't remember his name, but he was in Forrest Gump
• 8:09
  and he was the friend of Cameron Poe in this baby.
• 8:12
  Baby. Oh, thank you.
• 8:14
  OK, let's get to the Garland Green of it all.
• 8:17
  Defend Garland Green in his placement in this movie.
• 8:21
  I he doesn't really have any.
• 8:24
  I don't think he really has any like if you removed him from the movie,
• 8:27
  it wouldn't really change anything in that regard.
• 8:30
  Yeah, he's totally useless.
• 8:33
  Do I enjoy the fact that he's there anyway?
• 8:36
  100 percent.
• 8:38
  That's part of the appeal is just like what is like
• 8:42
  most of the time watching it just being like, oh, this is happening now.
• 8:45
  Oh, OK, what's he going to do?
• 8:46
  And then he's just there to provide some like creepo
• 8:50
  fucking commentary, weird statements and then go
• 8:53
  sit and have tea with a tiny child of an empty swimming pool that comes out.
• 8:58
  And like, no clue. But I'm here for.
• 9:01
  I always think like with Garland Green, I was thinking that one episode
• 9:04
  of The Simpsons where the mafia and the Yakuzas are fighting on the front lawn
• 9:08
  and Marge's like Homer comes in and says, you know, but that little guy
• 9:10
  in the back hasn't done anything yet.
• 9:12
  And you know, when he does, it's going to be great.
• 9:15
  And then there's not really that payoff other than he escapes at the end
• 9:18
  and we're supposed to feel good about that.
• 9:20
  Yeah. I mean, it could have been like a setup for Connor.
• 9:23
  Connor, too.
• 9:24
  I am annoyed we didn't get the buddy cop comedy of Q.
• 9:27
  Second, Meany after this.
• 9:29
  That's true. They're they're buddies.
• 9:30
  At least friendly. Yeah.
• 9:33
  Trauma will do that sometimes.
• 9:36
  I love cool.
• 9:36
  Meany, such a big meatball.
• 9:39
  I like him. Yeah.
• 9:40
  It's also just kind of a random person.
• 9:43
  I only think of it in Titanic.
• 9:46
  Other than that, that's the first movie I think.
• 9:48
  What was called Meany or who was called Meany in Titanic?
• 9:52
  I don't think there's a what?
• 9:53
  Oh, wait. No, never mind.
• 9:54
  That was Billy Zane.
• 9:55
  No, it's a different.
• 9:56
  It's a different person.
• 9:58
  Billy Zane in a no fucking terrible way.
• 10:00
  I would love to see a chubby balding Billy Zane.
• 10:03
  Well, I guess like you mean Billy Zane now.
• 10:07
  Just know, put some hair on him and then it's OK.
• 10:10
  Not a lot of hair, though.
• 10:11
  Oh, right.
• 10:12
  Had to go halfway between hair and bald.
• 10:14
  OK, so it kicks off with cage getting into a bar fight with some fucking yokels.
• 10:19
  Yeah. Well, they come at him.
• 10:21
  Oh, they sold it.
• 10:22
  They want the lady.
• 10:23
  It kicks off with how do I live?
• 10:26
  Suddenly, I'm out.
• 10:27
  You. Yes, I like.
• 10:29
  You get me.
• 10:30
  He gets out of the Army Rangers, gets off a boat
• 10:33
  to an bar right next to an oil refinery that produces fire.
• 10:39
  Alabama. Yeah.
• 10:41
  Yeah. Meets up with his pregnant wife.
• 10:44
  She's seven months pregnant, six months pregnant, three months.
• 10:47
  Tries to have a nice dance with her.
• 10:48
  Some yokels are like, I want to fuck your wife.
• 10:51
  Go buy me a fucking beer.
• 10:52
  I mean, it's a powerful tactic.
• 10:53
  Yeah. Blames him for why they lost Vietnam.
• 10:57
  Yeah, this is a strong stance for people to just have in the South.
• 11:02
  It's not what I would typically expect to find.
• 11:04
  And the fact that nobody else in the bar stands up to that guy
• 11:09
  or stands up for his behavior makes me think that this whole bar is just that way.
• 11:13
  Probably.
• 11:15
  But then as they're leaving 10, like 20 yards from the bar,
• 11:19
  these three rock up, smash a bottle over his head,
• 11:24
  start really laying in them like they're aiming to kill him.
• 11:27
  He defends himself, kills one of the guys, just reflex like nosebone into the brain.
• 11:31
  Well, yeah, he pulled a knife out.
• 11:32
  Yeah. Yeah. No.
• 11:33
  No cage had permission to kill. Yeah.
• 11:35
  But because he's, you know, a deadly weapon, seven years for self-defense.
• 11:41
  It's gonna be so stupid.
• 11:42
  It's involuntary manslaughter now.
• 11:44
  It's so dumb.
• 11:46
  OK, well, here's here's the thing I love.
• 11:48
  Is that happens seven years because he's held to a higher standard.
• 11:53
  End of the film destroys Las Vegas, kills a guy with like a big steam like weight.
• 11:59
  You know, just actual violence for the sake of violence.
• 12:02
  Bye. Out on the back.
• 12:03
  Have fun. Have a hero. Yeah. Thanks.
• 12:07
  Here's a medal of honor.
• 12:08
  Technically, they can't prove that he was responsible for most of that.
• 12:12
  Yeah. And it wraps again with Lee and rhymes.
• 12:15
  Just a nice little book and how do I live with that?
• 12:19
  That drops a few times in the movie.
• 12:21
  Yeah, absolutely. And it works perfectly.
• 12:23
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:24
  Mm hmm. Monica Potter.
• 12:26
  So cute. Great. Yeah.
• 12:27
  She's cute. I really like her.
• 12:30
  Her nose is like such a classic turned up.
• 12:32
  Yeah. Like the whole cast.
• 12:34
  The whole cast is pretty great.
• 12:36
  It is. It's a great cast.
• 12:37
  John Cusack. Cusack works great in this.
• 12:40
  I love his smarmy sandal wearing like, you know, it's
• 12:43
  it actually Mr. More like Mr. Thesaurus.
• 12:46
  Look, his big suit khaki khaki suit wearing mofo.
• 12:50
  Yeah. The fashion in this is not the best.
• 12:52
  Well, it was 97. Yeah.
• 12:55
  Although it was probably Nick Cage's best look.
• 12:59
  I mean, and the most giffable possibly the hair
• 13:04
  when he just walks off the bus and the hair, the wind in the hair.
• 13:07
  And he's got the smirk on his face.
• 13:09
  I mean, it's just everywhere. It's like the best thing.
• 13:12
  So we have the little like him having seven years in jail
• 13:15
  and he's like learning Spanish, learning origami.
• 13:19
  I wanted all these things to come up during the movie.
• 13:21
  You know, better MacGyver pay.
• 13:23
  If you had like origami to shuriken at one point.
• 13:26
  Yeah. Then like, fuck, yeah, that would be incredible.
• 13:28
  That's how we take down Diamond Dogg.
• 13:31
  I also he also does the cool thing where he's like sitting cross legged
• 13:33
  and just holding himself up on his fingers. Yeah.
• 13:37
  Well, none of that stuff comes into play.
• 13:39
  No, but it was cool to watch it happen.
• 13:42
  It was.
• 13:43
  I was trying to think of a time when he killed somebody just with his fingers.
• 13:47
  But I mean, he pushes Billy Bedlam into a thing into a pipe.
• 13:51
  Yeah, I think that was more like a kick, though.
• 13:53
  That's true. It was.
• 13:54
  Oh, yeah. A hip thrust.
• 13:56
  Him off the back. Right.
• 13:57
  Yeah. He just bridges.
• 13:58
  So that's exactly a bridge that he did.
• 14:01
  He bridged him up into the into the ceiling of the of the under
• 14:06
  under the plane.
• 14:06
  I do. So there's that scene.
• 14:08
  The undercarriage.
• 14:09
  The under plane. I do love that scene because they cut to Billy Bedlam
• 14:14
  and they're all like hunched over and he's just like, yeah.
• 14:17
  Yeah, I love how yellow they make his teeth just for that end scene.
• 14:21
  Oh, it's so nasty.
• 14:22
  Oh, we couldn't get the the mannequin to look like he had white teeth.
• 14:25
  So he's got to have yellow teeth now.
• 14:27
  Yeah, there's. Fuck this guy up.
• 14:29
  That scene really is what a great example of what I think is just missing
• 14:34
  from this movie is just the dialogue and the writing is truly terrible,
• 14:39
  especially for an action film.
• 14:41
  You kick a guy onto a steam pipe.
• 14:42
  What do you want, liner?
• 14:44
  Nobody one liner.
• 14:44
  She's like, why didn't you put the bunny back in the box?
• 14:49
  Was the line was the line read after that?
• 14:51
  Yeah. What do we think of Cage in general in this film?
• 14:55
  Like, Nick, you and I have watched a lot of Nicholas Cage.
• 14:58
  Where does this stack in terms of like character and performance?
• 15:03
  I love the character because the character is just
• 15:05
  a morally a good guy, but he's willing to get his hands dirty for this.
• 15:11
  He's he's trying to help everybody except for, you know, the bad guys.
• 15:16
  He does not help them at all.
• 15:18
  Just a good guy, but he's tough.
• 15:20
  Yeah. I guess my issue with this in terms of a cage film is like,
• 15:23
  I don't know how much it matters that it is Nicholas Cage
• 15:25
  with how little Cameron Poe really has to do in terms of speaking.
• 15:30
  Right. There's not a lot of dialogue for like or like a character
• 15:34
  beyond just being random action tough guy.
• 15:37
  Sometimes all you need is random action tough guy, though.
• 15:40
  And he he played it perfectly.
• 15:41
  I mean, you know, he didn't write the script.
• 15:43
  Yeah. And he delivered.
• 15:45
  He just delivered every line.
• 15:47
  He stayed true to the character.
• 15:49
  This movie might have my least favorite Nick Cage line read
• 15:54
  of everything we've watched so far, which is when Baby Oh gets shot
• 15:57
  and talking about like, I don't I don't believe in God.
• 16:00
  And Nick Cage just stand up and goes,
• 16:02
  I'm going to prove to you God exists and like goes to like
• 16:06
  fight the bad guys.
• 16:09
  Does he roundhouse kick someone at that point?
• 16:10
  I can't remember.
• 16:11
  Get shot in the arm.
• 16:12
  Oh, and he just keeps going. Yeah.
• 16:14
  Pretty sick. That was pretty cool.
• 16:16
  Action tough guy.
• 16:17
  Kind of hot.
• 16:19
  And he saves the day in the end.
• 16:20
  He does like four times.
• 16:22
  That's OK. My only view for this movie, again, is that it's just like
• 16:26
  you could cut one of these sections out almost across the board.
• 16:29
  Like it doesn't matter which one you pick and you would not miss it.
• 16:32
  Like you could take out crashing in Las Vegas and still end on the chase.
• 16:37
  You could take out the chase.
• 16:38
  And then crash.
• 16:39
  Vegas is the crash.
• 16:40
  The crash.
• 16:41
  We can take it.
• 16:42
  Crashing in Vegas.
• 16:43
  How very it was awesome that they show the plane going through the building
• 16:48
  and like somehow no one hears or sees what's going on until it's right there.
• 16:54
  Oh, shit. Crashing in.
• 16:56
  I know I love that.
• 16:57
  It's just like the special action sequence.
• 17:00
  Yeah. The original version, though, I really wish they could have done.
• 17:03
  They were going to crash it into the mirage.
• 17:05
  The mirage was having a problem with their identity
• 17:08
  and like didn't want to be attached to an R rated movie, which like of all the movies,
• 17:11
  this one would be fine.
• 17:13
  They were going to fight in the volcano that they had.
• 17:16
  It was going to erupt in the end in an underwater fight between Poe
• 17:20
  and Cyrus the virus. What?
• 17:23
  Incredible. Cool.
• 17:24
  Like that's tight as fuck.
• 17:25
  So long as he can still be like launched off of a how do you get into the smasher?
• 17:32
  Yeah.
• 17:33
  That is he gets ejected from the volcano.
• 17:35
  Yes. Whoa.
• 17:37
  I mean, there is some good like human projectile scenes
• 17:41
  like John Cusack gets shot by a jet motion.
• 17:48
  Cage jumps through a window and then is propelled by an explosion.
• 17:51
  Yeah. Cyrus the virus gets launched off of a fire truck.
• 17:55
  Right. I mean, he's hoisted up on the ladder.
• 17:58
  What? What do you think?
• 17:59
  Gains crashes in there.
• 18:01
  He's handcuffed to the ladder.
• 18:03
  What broke? Probably his thumb.
• 18:05
  Yeah. His hand probably ripped off something like this.
• 18:09
  Oh, well, Trejo's arm.
• 18:11
  Please. Well, yeah, that definitely came off.
• 18:14
  I forgot about that.
• 18:15
  We're watching him like, oh, yeah, that's a good bit.
• 18:18
  Yeah. There's like good visual jokes.
• 18:20
  But like what a weird arm that it just completely tore off like an action.
• 18:23
  At the elbow. Yeah.
• 18:25
  Well, he looked like once with me.
• 18:26
  I mean, it kind of made sense to me.
• 18:28
  Oh, like another scene that I think you could cut like the trap in the airport.
• 18:32
  Like that. You don't need that.
• 18:34
  I get why it's there. It's another big show piece.
• 18:36
  There's lots of gunfire, you know, all that.
• 18:38
  But it's like it doesn't need to be there.
• 18:40
  They could have just escaped that base had both fuck up their plane
• 18:45
  and the traffic Carson City.
• 18:47
  Yeah. First stop.
• 18:47
  I don't know that you need the military moment.
• 18:51
  You know, there's just a lot of bits and pieces
• 18:52
  that could make this movie tighter in my mind.
• 18:54
  It is. Yeah.
• 18:56
  And popcorn's fun. Yeah. Tasty.
• 18:58
  Yeah. You would still need the military involvement or whatever,
• 19:02
  but they could just come up as as the plane escapes.
• 19:05
  Yeah. Because you had the whole note being thrown out.
• 19:09
  And then the moment of where's the chopper.
• 19:11
  And he's like, they're coming.
• 19:13
  There's so many things. There's a fucking chopper chase.
• 19:15
  It's like, it just keeps going.
• 19:17
  Well, it's the classic, you know.
• 19:19
  Well, someone listens to no one listens to the guy that ends up being right
• 19:23
  about everything. Sure. Every time he's not listened to.
• 19:27
  And they go and chase down that.
• 19:28
  To be fair, I don't. Poor tour.
• 19:30
  I don't trust most people in suits and sandals.
• 19:34
  Well, especially khaki beige ones.
• 19:37
  Yeah. And Birkenstocks.
• 19:38
  Yeah. So, OK, this shape for you,
• 19:41
  this was your first time watching it as a grown person.
• 19:47
  No, I'm sure I've watched it in the past years.
• 19:52
  So, you know, that's I'm sure I have.
• 19:55
  But it was the first time in a while
• 19:58
  that I'd watched it when you asked me to do this this morning.
• 20:01
  When I rewatched it, that was a just a rewatch to make sure everything was fresh.
• 20:06
  Which clearly worked really well.
• 20:09
  I didn't remember.
• 20:11
  This is a great.
• 20:13
  I mean, I would have seen most of this movie out of order,
• 20:17
  like on TBS or TNT.
• 20:19
  This is a great.
• 20:20
  No matter where you turn it on, you're going to see some fun.
• 20:23
  That's true. I mean, it is an enjoyable movie in that regard.
• 20:27
  Even the cliche, just hokey stuff in it
• 20:32
  just fit because it was the entire movie was that.
• 20:37
  And this I know this one got like bad, bad ratings or whatever.
• 20:40
  People didn't really like it as much as some of his other ones anyway, that's for sure.
• 20:43
  But I don't know.
• 20:46
  I think you just have to take it for what it is.
• 20:48
  And like you said, not not put too much meaning to something.
• 20:52
  Yeah, it's just a cornball kind of action film.
• 20:55
  Yeah, I love that it kind of exists in the role of something like the
• 21:00
  untouchables or whatever that saloon piece is,
• 21:04
  where it's like we're just going to cram a bunch of like the hottest action
• 21:07
  and like film guys in this together.
• 21:10
  Yeah, Expendables.
• 21:11
  Yeah, that's right.
• 21:12
  And there's a bunch of celebrities we know you love.
• 21:14
  Yeah.
• 21:15
  I have an entire Expendables back tattoo.
• 21:18
  It's good.
• 21:21
  It's all Dolph Lundgren, though.
• 21:24
  30 Dolph Lundgren.
• 21:25
  Oh, oh.
• 21:26
  And then the most random gay character as well in here,
• 21:30
  who is, again, very stereotypical, but it was kind of cute
• 21:35
  to just see a person in drag in this film.
• 21:38
  And he wasn't it wasn't kind of anything, you know, his again,
• 21:42
  that character probably didn't matter.
• 21:44
  But the fact that it wasn't a bigger right.
• 21:48
  It was it was a punch line.
• 21:49
  It wasn't a punch line.
• 21:50
  I mean, it was just like, yeah, he's just this gay prisoner and likes to wear dresses.
• 21:54
  I was like, that's pretty dope.
• 21:55
  And that is a reference to an actual person, though.
• 21:59
  Oh, it is. OK.
• 22:01
  I don't have that information again.
• 22:02
  I can't remember the exact story, but Sally Can't Dance was the name.
• 22:04
  Yeah. Oh, OK. Well, yeah.
• 22:07
  Did you have a quote that you thought was interesting or remarkable
• 22:11
  or funny or stupid?
• 22:12
  Yeah. Did you do our work for us?
• 22:14
  I didn't write it down.
• 22:15
  So was it just dome it? Was it?
• 22:17
  Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 22:19
  Yeah.
• 22:23
  I fucking love that.
• 22:25
  And maybe I'll see some interesting see trees and stuff.
• 22:31
  What is it?
• 22:32
  There were so many talking to
• 22:34
  fucking Garland Green for the first time.
• 22:36
  What's wrong with him?
• 22:37
  I had to guess a lot of that.
• 22:41
  Yes, that is the one.
• 22:42
  Thank you. Thank you. That's a good one.
• 22:44
  Right. When you said I was like, yes, it was that one.
• 22:46
  Because, yeah.
• 22:47
  I like when he comes up from killing Billy Bedlam and Garland Green.
• 22:51
  You think two men go down and one comes up.
• 22:54
  I'm not talking to you.
• 22:58
  I did notice because the way they figure out that he's a traitor is
• 23:02
  fucking what's Cyrus the virus.
• 23:05
  Billy Bedlam, Diamond Diamond Dog goes down to like
• 23:09
  it's like, I'm wondering about this guy.
• 23:11
  I'm going to go look at his personal effects, which is how
• 23:14
  Billy Bedlam found it out to him, like, so just reusing the same plot point.
• 23:18
  I mean, that box is still there.
• 23:19
  Yeah. No, but I mean, we talked we've talked about this, I think,
• 23:22
  every time we watch this movie, like you could cut 20 minutes
• 23:25
  out of this movie easily and it would still have the same plot.
• 23:27
  Pretty much probably.
• 23:29
  But I didn't fall asleep during it.
• 23:31
  No, it is.
• 23:32
  It was some other movies.
• 23:34
  I don't know if I'm allowed to.
• 23:35
  Are you going to talk to us?
• 23:36
  You can talk some shit.
• 23:37
  Am I allowed to talk shade about the one that you can't it's up against?
• 23:40
  Yeah.
• 23:40
  OK, well, I did fall asleep trying to watch face off.
• 23:45
  Not going to lie. I did.
• 23:46
  For me, what it came down to is while I enjoy explosions
• 23:52
  and and action, I just it was so much of that over and over
• 23:58
  and over and over again that my brain kind of took it as a white noise.
• 24:03
  And I guess as opposed to this movie, which is very controlled.
• 24:08
  No, not controlled.
• 24:10
  I would just say there's less.
• 24:11
  It's it's it's very there's like explosion.
• 24:15
  And then it cuts to a scene that's a little quieter
• 24:17
  or has like some random weird funny one liners.
• 24:21
  I don't know. I was under the same condition.
• 24:23
  Face off doesn't have anything like that.
• 24:26
  And counterpoint face off does have weird familial face touching.
• 24:30
  That was the other big win.
• 24:32
  Yeah, that that one.
• 24:33
  It's just everyone's doing the weird.
• 24:36
  Let me grace your face with my fingertips.
• 24:38
  And it's weird, culty.
• 24:41
  Like, did I watch children of the some?
• 24:43
  Yeah, I don't know.
• 24:44
  It gives me bad vibes overall.
• 24:48
  This is good.
• 24:48
  She threw on face off.
• 24:49
  And John Travolta is really just one of the worst humans.
• 24:54
  So I just don't want to I didn't want to see his face.
• 24:57
  It was all around.
• 24:58
  But it was awful.
• 25:00
  Yeah. And then Nick Cage had to wear it, unfortunately, for Nick Cage.
• 25:04
  So I know it's weird that they actually did that for that movie.
• 25:07
  I know dedicated artists, you know.
• 25:09
  But I'm not I'm not judging on plot believability or anything like that.
• 25:14
  No, no, no, no.
• 25:15
  We're in the same vein here for sure.
• 25:17
  It's clear why they're up against one another.
• 25:19
  You watch these movies.
• 25:21
  So you watch Con Air as of this morning and also not that long ago.
• 25:26
  How do you consider it in terms of rewatchability?
• 25:29
  I'd probably rewatch it again.
• 25:31
  It's not like a once a month thing,
• 25:34
  but I would absolutely find myself watching this again for sure.
• 25:38
  Yeah. You can watch it organically just like one day
• 25:41
  or just watch it in bits and pieces as it was meant to be.
• 25:44
  Have it on in the background while I'm doing something else,
• 25:47
  which I like to do with a lot of movies.
• 25:48
  And then you catch just like one of the stupid lines.
• 25:53
  But yeah, I overall, you know, I just liked it.
• 25:58
  And maybe I don't know, face off for me.
• 26:02
  I didn't see that one in the theater.
• 26:03
  So maybe I don't have this like grounded, rooted connection to it
• 26:08
  like I do with Conair.
• 26:09
  But again, it also just didn't grab me in the same way.
• 26:15
  The plot just wasn't for me as fun.
• 26:21
  Connor, I guess I like more.
• 26:23
  It wasn't. I like the more comedic aspect, I think, of Conair,
• 26:27
  where I think sure you can point out aspects of face off that are funny.
• 26:31
  But I feel like they're intended to be.
• 26:33
  And I think Conair had more of that kind of slapstick like, OK,
• 26:36
  we know what we're doing right here.
• 26:37
  We know we're showing you this Dave Chappelle dummy.
• 26:42
  And we know what you're thinking.
• 26:44
  And we like that.
• 26:44
  You know, like, like, that's fine.
• 26:47
  We're into it. We're going to dump him out of a plane.
• 26:49
  I don't know.
• 26:49
  It's I mean, that's a fair point.
• 26:51
  And that's kind of what we're doing with this entire exercise.
• 26:53
  We really want to get a take.
• 26:55
  Like, why is this movie worth watching?
• 26:57
  And I think that's a really good excuse for it.
• 27:00
  You know, it's it's stupid. It's fun.
• 27:03
  You can turn your brain off and laugh and have a good time.
• 27:05
  And then a bunch of propane tanks blow up, you know, whatever.
• 27:11
  Sure. Who doesn't need to just check out right now anyway, you know, a little bit.
• 27:17
  Just every once in a while, just check the.
• 27:21
  Yes, it's nice sometimes.
• 27:24
  Favorite scenes.
• 27:26
  Hmm. I like when he's under the truck with the with the old guy at the airport.
• 27:31
  He's trying to get like a syringe for baby.
• 27:33
  How is like, please don't kill me is like, stay down here.
• 27:36
  You'll be fine.
• 27:37
  I just need a syringe.
• 27:38
  Oh, boy, don't do drugs. They'll kill you.
• 27:43
  Amazing.
• 27:44
  Mine might be the whole like final fight sequence of many deaths of Cyrus, the virus.
• 27:50
  I love that it just keeps going.
• 27:52
  I love that he just steals a cop motorcycle and rides after,
• 27:57
  stabs him through the foot, launches him through a window,
• 28:02
  electrocutes him and then. Yes.
• 28:04
  And then the smash is his head.
• 28:06
  He finally gets terminated.
• 28:07
  When the propeller goes like through the airplane for sure.
• 28:11
  Queen them. Yeah, I was nuts.
• 28:13
  Oh, also, when the when the guard opens up the thing that says, do not open.
• 28:17
  And it's a bomb.
• 28:19
  That explosion is great.
• 28:21
  And that's like his body gets like ragdolled across the road.
• 28:24
  Totally flung.
• 28:25
  And John Cusack out in the hall with the door that comes over his head.
• 28:31
  You know, whatever some lands in the wall right next to him.
• 28:35
  Well, that could have been me.
• 28:37
  I want to know what John Cusack turns around in that scene
• 28:38
  because he's running away to go get something or get somebody.
• 28:41
  Then he's like the guy like opens the thing, but he's junkies.
• 28:44
  I send the whole and John Cusack has this sudden like I have to turn around
• 28:47
  and do something right as the explosion happens.
• 28:49
  Well, because he saw that box that said, do not open.
• 28:51
  And he's like, I bet.
• 28:53
  And those. Yeah.
• 28:54
  They just fucking idiots are going to open that shit.
• 28:58
  He's like, get out of there.
• 29:02
  I like the scene. OK.
• 29:03
  I like any kind of escape scene, to be honest with you,
• 29:05
  even if it's the bad guys that you're not really rooting for.
• 29:08
  But the fact that they hid little tiny pins,
• 29:15
  little needles in their hand, like under fake skin
• 29:19
  or whatever is so hilariously amazing.
• 29:23
  And they just boop, bop, boop, pick the lock.
• 29:27
  Yeah, that's it. It was that easy.
• 29:29
  I like that. Mm hmm.
• 29:31
  I didn't know how, you know, at first, I couldn't remember
• 29:34
  how they escape when I rewatched it the first time.
• 29:36
  And then I saw that I was like, those tricky bastard.
• 29:40
  Oh, yeah. Dave Chappelle sets a dude on fire and
• 29:43
  he barfs up. Yeah.
• 29:46
  I don't have a particular favorite scene, but there's one that
• 29:51
  a specific image from this that I always remember.
• 29:53
  It's as the breakout is starting to happen,
• 29:55
  but Cyrus hasn't gotten released from the cell yet.
• 29:57
  And he's just like standing at the gate like, hey, yeah.
• 30:02
  Shaking his manacles around.
• 30:03
  I like that. It sounds like a faux baby whine like
• 30:10
  open the. So annoying.
• 30:13
  Yeah, that's that's probably my favorite part.
• 30:15
  Yeah, love it.
• 30:17
  OK, so if you had to sum up for us a case saying
• 30:22
  why this one should move forward, what would you say?
• 30:26
  I mean, I think I did, but just say it better.
• 30:29
  I was spliced in here.
• 30:30
  If you could just rearrange some of those words.
• 30:32
  Small, memorable bites.
• 30:34
  Remember, we're like goldfish here. Yeah.
• 30:36
  Action packed, quirky, thrill ride,
• 30:41
  stupid in the best way.
• 30:44
  Satisfying resolve.
• 30:47
  And worth the rewatch.
• 30:50
  Cage, look and fly, look pretty hot.
• 30:52
  Nice hair. Good muscles.
• 30:55
  Obligatory. I'm going to take my shirt off scene.
• 30:57
  Just have the right. Right.
• 30:58
  Have the tank tattoos and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:02
  Hero. You know, he's got the hero side of the story here.
• 31:07
  And there's no creepy face touching.
• 31:09
  So that's what.
• 31:10
  All right. Strong argument. Thank you.
• 31:15
  Well, thank you, Shay. Thank you.
• 31:17
  I always enjoy being here.
• 31:20
  It's always a good time.
• 31:21
  It's been too long. We have.
• 31:23
  But yeah, welcome back.
• 31:25
  At least there's no gerbils in this one.
• 31:27
  Yeah, thank fucking God.
• 31:30
  No animals of any kind.
• 31:32
  Yeah, just a bunny.
• 31:34
  Just those animals in the air.
• 31:35
  But it doesn't.
• 31:36
  Animal and those animals in the air.
• 31:39
  I mean, honest.
• 31:40
  OK, favorite line is honestly when he turns around
• 31:44
  and when he just John Malkovich,
• 31:48
  he takes over the plane, he tells the pilot, he's like,
• 31:51
  you're still going to Carson City and he comes out.
• 31:53
  He's like, welcome to Con Air.
• 31:55
  I love slash hate when they say the names of the film.
• 32:00
  Both of these movies have that. Oh, yeah.
• 32:01
  Right. So and he it was, you know, he was a good line for him.
• 32:05
  I thought it was it worked well.
• 32:08
  In the moment. Yeah, definitely. OK.
• 32:10
  Should I? Should I? Yeah. Give a bang.
• 32:13
  Whoa. Yeah.
• 32:15
  We'll just keep that one.
• 32:16
  Well, yeah.
• 32:18
  And you have anger.
• 32:20
  Yeah.
• 32:24
  Amazing.
• 32:28
  And we're back.
• 32:30
  Also here with our old friends.
• 32:33
  Yeah, we're back again. That's scary.
• 32:35
  And rocks.
• 32:37
  Our guests were better at our jobs than us. Yes.
• 32:40
  It's nice to see you guys again. Yeah. Welcome back.
• 32:42
  It's good to be here.
• 32:43
  You're three timers as well. Right.
• 32:45
  This is your third record. Yeah. Fourth.
• 32:47
  Fourth technically. Technically the last episode.
• 32:51
  Yeah. Welcome back.
• 32:52
  So, yeah, we had two three timers.
• 32:54
  I didn't even realize that we did that. Yeah.
• 32:56
  I mean, you slacks.
• 32:58
  I get around technicality on the last one.
• 33:02
  Well, because G-Force. Yeah. You got to count G-Force.
• 33:04
  Never forget G-Force. I mean, he was on the podcast.
• 33:07
  So that's fair. Yeah.
• 33:09
  Are you all noticing what you're doing to Roxanne each time?
• 33:12
  She's getting filthier on the mic and she just led with you sluts.
• 33:15
  Oh, yeah. That's good.
• 33:17
  Yeah, that's fine.
• 33:17
  I mean, it just felt so at home for us.
• 33:19
  So I mean, that's just speaking truth to power.
• 33:22
  I am.
• 33:25
  Yeah, there's a lot to talk about with face.
• 33:27
  So face off.
• 33:29
  Yeah. Do you guys want to give us a brief rundown of this film? By way of
• 33:35
  getting into this, I want to talk about 1997.
• 33:38
  What was actually happening in 97?
• 33:42
  The zeitgeist must have been thick.
• 33:45
  You had this film and Titanic and L.A.
• 33:49
  confidential and then on television, you had the debut of Rugrats
• 33:54
  and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
• 33:56
  I think Biggie got shot in 97.
• 33:58
  Just so many really interesting, groundbreaking, pivotal things happened in 97.
• 34:03
  And I thought including the making of Conair.
• 34:05
  Right. That doesn't make it.
• 34:07
  Conair came out in 97.
• 34:09
  That was the shade. Yeah.
• 34:11
  I mean, yeah, but not just making it.
• 34:13
  Both these movies came out the same year.
• 34:14
  Absolutely. And that mission was intentional.
• 34:19
  But anyhow, to contrast this film with L.A.
• 34:22
  confidential, which really got so much critical acclaim,
• 34:25
  I did a quick little search to see which movie won more awards.
• 34:29
  And as you all probably remember, L.A.
• 34:31
  confidential, like Cleaned House, like 28 awards, 30 awards, something like that.
• 34:34
  Definitely remember this.
• 34:36
  I was 13 watching the Oscars with bated breath.
• 34:39
  Right. And it was like all the highbrow awards.
• 34:41
  But based off, if you recall, won a blockbuster movie award and
• 34:46
  MTV movie award, maybe.
• 34:48
  Yeah. So the people's awards.
• 34:50
  Yeah. The people's awards. Right. Absolutely.
• 34:52
  They got a Nickelodeon Kids Choice Award.
• 34:54
  100 percent.
• 34:57
  And so my basic synopsis and I'll throw it over to Rox
• 35:01
  to like add some more context is I think that this movie
• 35:05
  settled into the niche at the time of telling the old
• 35:11
  like mythic like Greek and Roman stories.
• 35:15
  And so much of this plot hinged on calling back some really,
• 35:20
  really old storytelling tropes.
• 35:22
  And obviously, they weren't trying to hide it by naming the main characters
• 35:25
  Castor and Pollock's Troy.
• 35:27
  And there's an Adam and Eve in the film.
• 35:28
  And there's just so many things that they were.
• 35:31
  I think John Woo and all the people he worked with were really trying to go
• 35:34
  like super old school myth with this film.
• 35:36
  And for me, I thought there was, yeah, so much like the boat
• 35:40
  chase from Oedipus.
• 35:43
  I knew you were going to point that out.
• 35:45
  I said to Roxanne coming in, I was like, Nick loves Oedipus so much
• 35:49
  and like maybe a little too much.
• 35:51
  And I'm very comfortable with my Oedipal things.
• 35:55
  My Oedipus complex.
• 35:56
  Yeah. And he.
• 35:58
  Mick really loves when the bowels of two ships crash into each other.
• 36:01
  It was called Jack.
• 36:05
  So take it away, Rox.
• 36:07
  What I will say about the plot of this movie is that it made a lot
• 36:10
  more sense to me after I thought about it while on ketamine.
• 36:15
  OK, this is exactly.
• 36:18
  Yeah.
• 36:19
  We're glad you guys are back.
• 36:22
  I mean, I just thought about face transplants and it just made total sense.
• 36:27
  I don't know if I can explain it.
• 36:30
  But I will. OK, let me put it this way.
• 36:32
  If you're not on drugs, this movie is insane
• 36:36
  and just feels like a little bit of everything
• 36:40
  and everything in the kitchen sink kind of movie.
• 36:43
  And for me, I'm going to already just start pulling for this film.
• 36:49
  I think it gets better with every watch.
• 36:51
  Like the first time around watching this, it felt completely frantic and wild.
• 36:56
  Second time around, it still felt that way.
• 36:58
  But it all started to come together.
• 37:00
  Yeah, I think that's the beauty of the movie.
• 37:02
  It's about these two guys.
• 37:04
  Good guy, bad guy.
• 37:05
  They swap faces as you and bodies
• 37:09
  somehow. And yeah.
• 37:11
  So they're pretending to be each other.
• 37:14
  And chaos ensues. Good versus evil.
• 37:18
  And as they swap faces and bodies, they also swap families
• 37:22
  and they they swap each other's delinquent fatherhoods
• 37:26
  and they swap each other's sexual relations.
• 37:29
  And it goes like Oedipus, you know, and it gets to these real
• 37:33
  like messy entanglements that I think are so characteristic of this.
• 37:37
  Well, since we've jumped right into it, where do you guys fall on the archer's
• 37:41
  wife is just completely checked out side of the coin versus
• 37:45
  they had their penises swapped?
• 37:49
  I know where I sit.
• 37:52
  I still think they just sort of make it into like
• 37:56
  the Reeboks like heirs, like where you just squeeze the nutsack
• 38:00
  and inflates the penis to plus or minus what you need for comfort.
• 38:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:07
  And you know, that's a good callback because weren't the Reebok pumps
• 38:10
  probably 97. They probably were very popular around that time.
• 38:13
  Tech was available.
• 38:14
  Branding. They're still popular to me now.
• 38:16
  So when did Men in Tights come out?
• 38:19
  Mm hmm. Like 95 because they were in that.
• 38:21
  Oh, yeah, that's true.
• 38:23
  Also featuring Dave Chappelle.
• 38:24
  It's true. Yeah, we're back to Chappelle.
• 38:26
  Yeah. Yeah. Well, pick that apart.
• 38:27
  Would you guys like 93? OK, there you go.
• 38:29
  Is it malarkey or is it a thing that there are these constellations
• 38:32
  and moments in like pop culture and Hollywood particularly
• 38:37
  as one vessel for pop culture to get out to the people
• 38:41
  where they're just like, is all this content that really lasts
• 38:44
  and permeates for a long time and then more fallow periods?
• 38:46
  Am I just making that shit up because I've read too much astrology?
• 38:49
  Or is that a thing that happens?
• 38:51
  I mean, it is kind of remarkable that there are so many
• 38:54
  notable things that happened in that particular year.
• 38:56
  But I wonder, too, we're all of a rough age.
• 39:00
  And I think that there's stuff that crystallized for our generation
• 39:05
  that happens to stand out more.
• 39:07
  Like, would my 11 year old son look at any of these movies and be like, hmm,
• 39:11
  that speaks to me.
• 39:12
  Probably not. I think there's also something to be said about pre
• 39:15
  Internet era where content was actually like produced and made
• 39:20
  in a very different way than it is now, because your son
• 39:24
  and daughters are going to grow up with like very bite
• 39:27
  sized bits of media made by idiots on the Internet. Right.
• 39:31
  And they're going to have a two and a half hour movie or two hours and 20 minutes
• 39:34
  view of what entertainment is and what like
• 39:37
  they're going to remember fondly and be nostalgic for.
• 39:40
  Plus, they're very used to penis swap technology.
• 39:42
  Oh, at this point. Yeah.
• 39:44
  On that note, and I will just say as a caveat, mom and dad, if you're listening,
• 39:48
  I made the mistake of telling my parents about this podcast, guys.
• 39:51
  So mom and dad, if you're listening, don't listen to this next part.
• 39:57
  I don't want to hear my parents talk.
• 39:59
  And they have my parents hear me talking about the spirit of face off.
• 40:02
  Would you use reverse psychology, please?
• 40:05
  Please listen to this next part.
• 40:07
  I'm sure you're going to really want to listen.
• 40:09
  We've already talked about the ketamine, but mom and dad, hang up
• 40:12
  before I start talking about dick.
• 40:14
  They know about the drugs.
• 40:16
  But sex is another story.
• 40:20
  Anyway, I just OK, I'm theorizing about you here.
• 40:24
  You know, you could take it in the direction of it being a subtle
• 40:28
  feminist message, because if you're that concerned about your
• 40:35
  your penis being one of a kind, then, you know, maybe you should
• 40:39
  not be so concerned about it, because at the end of the day,
• 40:41
  they're they're more or less all interchangeable.
• 40:44
  But what if and OK, what if Archer did not know was not fully aware
• 40:50
  of Castor Troy's bifurcated penis
• 40:54
  going into this and it blows his cover?
• 40:56
  You can't un-fork a wiener
• 40:59
  except maybe with magnets.
• 41:02
  Oh, yeah. Good idea. Yeah.
• 41:05
  Yeah, that's probably what happened.
• 41:08
  OK, I take it back. Yeah.
• 41:11
  I will say so we know Castor
• 41:13
  Troy can eat a peach for hours and there's some that's definitely something.
• 41:18
  I guess you know, you end up in that bedroom too.
• 41:21
  So I'm just like Archer gets back in his own body.
• 41:24
  Wife suddenly now has a proclivity for having her ass eaten out.
• 41:27
  How does that work for their marriage?
• 41:29
  Well, he'd have to do it after bringing home like a strange boy
• 41:32
  that's going to grow up to look like the murderer of their child.
• 41:35
  That's still the weirdest part of this movie for me.
• 41:37
  Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with you.
• 41:39
  I also think the face touching thing is really that's really the worst.
• 41:42
  Actually, it's technically called a face waterfall.
• 41:45
  We learned. Do tell that.
• 41:47
  I also hate that right out of the mouth of John Woo.
• 41:50
  They called it a face waterfall.
• 41:53
  And audiences loved it.
• 41:55
  How does that test well?
• 41:58
  I mean, we're audiences and we did not love it.
• 42:01
  Have you ever tried it?
• 42:02
  Yeah. Come here.
• 42:04
  Everybody face waterfall.
• 42:06
  The person you're right.
• 42:07
  I didn't like it.
• 42:10
  And I didn't like it.
• 42:12
  I know to take a look at any of you anymore.
• 42:18
  To take that point about Archer having sex as Troy
• 42:21
  and Troy having sex as Archer.
• 42:23
  One of the things Rox and I were talking about before coming in here was
• 42:27
  it was clear that Castor Troy was making Sean Archer's life better.
• 42:31
  It seemed to me in the film that his wife and his kid loved
• 42:35
  having Castor Troy around way more than Sean Archer and his coworkers.
• 42:38
  Co-workers liked it. He was a better co-worker.
• 42:41
  So Castor Troy elevates Sean Archer's experience.
• 42:45
  Similarly, Rox and I contend that John Travolta
• 42:49
  acting like Castor Troy, but acting like Nicolas Cage
• 42:53
  would act like Castor Troy is the best acting of his career.
• 42:55
  When John Travolta acts like Nicolas Cage, it's the best shit he's ever come up with.
• 42:59
  I think both of these performances are really good.
• 43:02
  Watching like when Nick Cage, when Sean Archer first gets
• 43:07
  Castor Troy's face, we first see Nick Cage as Sean Archer.
• 43:12
  That made sense.
• 43:13
  And he kind of like goes through the emotions of like
• 43:17
  kind of coming out of the drugs, like seeing his face, like kind of like starts
• 43:21
  just cackling because his brain snaps a little and he starts to cry.
• 43:25
  And just that's a great scene and a powerful scene for what is not really
• 43:30
  that emotional a film.
• 43:32
  And then he still has the voice, the Travolta voice, and it's just silly sounding.
• 43:38
  But like the physical acting, I loved in that scene.
• 43:41
  Yeah, absolutely. And I love the way that Travolta, whenever he wanted to accentuate
• 43:45
  an evil line, would tilt his head a little bit, like in such a cage way, you know,
• 43:50
  like he took on all of these cages, particularly the lines, the next hundred years.
• 43:56
  Yeah. And then also, let's see what's in Papa's bag.
• 43:59
  Peaches. And then he licks his daughter's face.
• 44:01
  But again, with the bravado that Nicolas Cage would deliver that line.
• 44:06
  Yeah. This movie is fucking wild.
• 44:11
  I fucking love this film so much.
• 44:13
  This one has grown on me so much since we started this.
• 44:16
  Making Travolta make fun of his own chin is terrific.
• 44:20
  I like it. There's a lot to be said about this.
• 44:22
  And we haven't even gotten to the boat chase.
• 44:25
  Oh, we did. All right. Before we get to the boat chase.
• 44:27
  I haven't gotten back to the boat. Awesome.
• 44:29
  I will say the one one place where this movie really falls down for me
• 44:32
  is still the prison sequence, just because it just OK.
• 44:35
  Face swapping technology. Fine.
• 44:37
  That's what we're here for. We know that going in, we can all agree it's dumb,
• 44:42
  but that's the crux of this film.
• 44:44
  We get to our one prison and it's like magnetic boots
• 44:47
  and all this like crazy other sci fi shit. That's like.
• 44:52
  That you went one step too far.
• 44:54
  Just have like a black gate prison, like off the coast. Fine.
• 44:57
  But like you have to have all this extra just.
• 45:00
  Stuff that doesn't do anything to the movie and just makes it silly.
• 45:05
  Yeah, in a way, I completely agree with you.
• 45:07
  And I think that the fact that this film was made in 97
• 45:11
  and it was about a war on terror, it was a little ahead of its time.
• 45:15
  And it made some of these like good versus evil, law and order
• 45:18
  versus terrorist dynamics look a little weird, because I think that like
• 45:23
  we all learned what a black ops prison in Guantanamo Bay
• 45:26
  would look like several years later.
• 45:28
  And, you know, they were already out there.
• 45:30
  But in terms of like the pop culture awareness of what was going on in these spaces,
• 45:35
  there was probably no visual for it because it hadn't been shown on cable TV
• 45:39
  or in newspapers. And so, yeah, they come up with this weird like sci fi.
• 45:43
  It's a little overdone.
• 45:45
  And yeah, in general, I thought that that was such an interesting piece
• 45:49
  of the of the story was the fact that this was made before this massive shift
• 45:53
  in the way that policing was done in terms of terrorism.
• 45:56
  And it was a war on terror film before the war on terror.
• 45:59
  Well, the visuals of it like really feel like a bygone era of like 80s sci fi,
• 46:03
  like that kind of thing.
• 46:05
  Just to comment on the prison stuff, too.
• 46:07
  The original screenplay, it was written as a prison movie.
• 46:11
  Like the whole thing was sci fi prison.
• 46:13
  And John Woo was the one who when he signed on to direct it,
• 46:17
  he really saw it as a character driven film.
• 46:20
  And so that was the spin that he put on it.
• 46:22
  They kind of rewrote the script based around that.
• 46:24
  That's my understanding. Correct call.
• 46:27
  So, yeah, weirdly, the thing that the film like originated as, I agree,
• 46:32
  it sort of like stands out in this weird way from the rest of the movie.
• 46:36
  And it's sort of not the most interesting part of the film.
• 46:39
  However, there is one nugget for me personally.
• 46:43
  I really loved when Nicholas Cage, Sean Archer
• 46:47
  needs to get himself in the chair for the lobotomy or the electroshock therapy
• 46:52
  so he can get his boots off.
• 46:53
  So he punches the guard to get the cigarette or he asked for the cigarette.
• 46:57
  He punches the guard and then eventually gets lifted up and he's shouting,
• 47:00
  Does anyone have a light? You got a light?
• 47:03
  That was just so well delivered.
• 47:05
  I do love when he first gets to the prison and you get the one guy like
• 47:11
  picks a fight with him and he's trying to talk to Pollock's
• 47:14
  and talking about how his brains messed up and trying to convince Pollock's
• 47:17
  that he's cast or truly it's like, I don't even remember why that guy.
• 47:20
  You know, big guy came at me.
• 47:22
  I just love the line from Pollock's like,
• 47:23
  you made a sex sandwich with his ex-wife and with his wife and sister
• 47:27
  the night he was arrested. Like, oh, yeah, do Bob.
• 47:30
  That was the machine. Yeah. Oh, oh, shit.
• 47:32
  I didn't even notice that.
• 47:33
  But I'm trying to.
• 47:34
  Now, I'm not going to go into descriptions there.
• 47:37
  Yeah. Are we going to talk about do Bob's penis?
• 47:41
  Is that one? No, just like sex sandwich.
• 47:44
  Rocks explained it. They're all the same.
• 47:48
  Thank you, Peter.
• 47:48
  Unless they're bifurcated, unless they're bifurcated,
• 47:50
  unless you have magnets, magnets. Right.
• 47:54
  Precisely.
• 47:55
  This is going to be one of those ones I listen to in like three months.
• 47:57
  I'm like, what are we talking about?
• 48:00
  How did we get here?
• 48:02
  Shout out also to the prison break scene.
• 48:04
  That was great when he was like on the roof, like getting out of prison.
• 48:08
  That part was pretty great. I thought. So. OK.
• 48:12
  I was watching this with my brother and they got to that part
• 48:14
  and he jumps off and ends up in the water and there are like helicopters
• 48:18
  circling around and they're just like, he's probably dead.
• 48:21
  Yeah, sure. Let's not worry about it.
• 48:24
  People can't swim, right? No, no, no.
• 48:26
  You know, there's a few moments in this movie where somebody
• 48:29
  is just sort of assumed to be dead and we don't actually know why that is,
• 48:35
  including the final scene.
• 48:36
  I don't know if you guys knew this, but they're making a sequel.
• 48:40
  Face Offer.
• 48:42
  Faces off.
• 48:46
  What would it even be?
• 48:49
  What what would make the faces come off again?
• 48:52
  And that's what gets you through the door.
• 48:54
  Yeah, I'm going to come. I'm going to watch that movie.
• 48:56
  And, you know, I think the what your point about the huge plowhole
• 49:01
  that he survives that leap into the frozen waters in the middle of nowhere off.
• 49:05
  What you can see L.A. in the background, it's not it was like a few miles off.
• 49:08
  OK, OK. I didn't realize I was all of those L.A. offshore oil rigs.
• 49:13
  Yeah, yeah.
• 49:14
  It was pretending to be.
• 49:15
  Yeah, those like you can definitely see the shore and one shot.
• 49:18
  Yeah, he's not terribly far.
• 49:20
  That's what really pissed me off.
• 49:21
  It's like you could probably just pick that guy up like there.
• 49:25
  Yeah. But regardless, there's a plowhole there about how.
• 49:29
  Yeah, he evades all these helicopters in the in the middle of the water.
• 49:32
  So they do give up a naturally quick.
• 49:35
  Yeah. For a supermax prison.
• 49:37
  Totally, totally.
• 49:38
  And I think that part of the like plowhole, part of the construction of that
• 49:43
  was this dipping a little more into the realm of like doing a science fiction film
• 49:50
  and asking the audience to continually suspend belief
• 49:53
  and getting a little farther away from doing like a myth tell in the myth
• 49:58
  or like in the fairy tale.
• 50:00
  You never have to ask the audience to suspend their disbelief
• 50:04
  because it's just assumed from the get go, like we can saw faces off with lasers.
• 50:08
  You know, we don't have to explain anything.
• 50:10
  You know, a wolf can wear clothing and be mistaken for a grandma.
• 50:14
  Sure. So it kind of hangs out in this middle space between myth
• 50:18
  and science fiction and sometimes gets a little clunky.
• 50:20
  But I really like it when things get all the way pushed out
• 50:24
  into the realm of total absurdity, into the mythic, particularly.
• 50:28
  I love the scene where Sean Archer's daughter
• 50:32
  stabs him with a knife that he provides her.
• 50:34
  I think that that's such classic mythic imagery to have that kind of irony
• 50:39
  built into the plot.
• 50:40
  And that's right after he says the line, what's in Papa's bag?
• 50:44
  I thought that moment was just one of my favorite.
• 50:46
  How do you feel about the mythology of the mother of Adam
• 50:50
  making out with her brother as he was dying?
• 50:53
  Yeah. Again, with the like Oedipus stuff, right?
• 50:56
  Like, I don't think I realized.
• 50:58
  Brother, sister kissing is super nice.
• 51:02
  I guess in an interview they were like, why did you do that?
• 51:04
  And they were like, we just thought it would be weird.
• 51:06
  Yeah. Figured they were a weird family.
• 51:09
  It was weird.
• 51:10
  Yeah. Well, Nick, you clearly sussed this out.
• 51:12
  You saw the boats and you recognize that this was the way
• 51:15
  into the to the stream of Oedipus story.
• 51:19
  Like, tell me more about that.
• 51:21
  How did you immediately become aware that this was so prominent in the film?
• 51:25
  You know, I just used my old divining rod and pants got a little tight
• 51:28
  and I was like, this is definitely a mother daughter, mother, son kind of
• 51:32
  adult documentary.
• 51:35
  Oh, God.
• 51:38
  Edit your way out of this, Peter.
• 51:39
  No. And you know what? I found water.
• 51:45
  Bingo.
• 51:46
  Well, how many times how many times so far?
• 51:51
  You're keeping count now, right?
• 51:52
  Well, yeah, I've got like an abacus set up
• 51:55
  in the entryway of my house, which is where I often complete. So
• 52:01
  Josie just hears that tick of the abacus sliding over.
• 52:04
  God damn it.
• 52:08
  Well, I get back to what you were saying, Rob, about just the like
• 52:11
  the plot holes of this movie.
• 52:13
  I just want to make a case for a face off.
• 52:15
  Both as a film that I think really does stand alone, but also
• 52:19
  I think why it should continue in this competition is that it is
• 52:23
  it epitomizes this thing that I know we when we've been on
• 52:28
  and you guys all have been talking about throughout this show,
• 52:30
  which is this thing about Nicolas Cage and just like things being pushed
• 52:34
  to the absolute brink where you have a choice, you know, are you going to jump
• 52:38
  into the plot hole or not?
• 52:40
  You know, and the thing with Nick Cage is like, if you say yes
• 52:44
  to just going there, like you're going to have a good time.
• 52:48
  And that for me is the beauty about face off is like it really
• 52:53
  it makes it so clear, like that's exactly where you are right from the get go.
• 52:57
  I would say like that initial scene with Nick Cage where he's the priest
• 53:01
  and he's, you know, dancing.
• 53:03
  It's just so clear.
• 53:04
  It's like you're either going to get on board with how insane this stuff is
• 53:07
  or or you're not and you're not going to have a very good time watching this movie.
• 53:11
  So you might as well get into it.
• 53:12
  No, that's fair.
• 53:13
  That's fair. And he does steal the show.
• 53:16
  Like he like choose a scenery so good.
• 53:19
  And he's he's good.
• 53:21
  Both as Castor, Troy and Sean Archer.
• 53:24
  So also another case where they say the name of the movie and the film
• 53:28
  a couple of times, you want to take his face off.
• 53:32
  Yes, I love that scene where they're all fucked up.
• 53:35
  How many times are you going to see face off?
• 53:37
  Fuck. But if you're really.
• 53:39
  So long movie.
• 53:40
  Face.
• 53:41
  Yeah, so that's my biggest beef with both of these movies.
• 53:43
  I think that they're both a little too long.
• 53:45
  I think you can chop bits and pieces of either one and still have a great movie.
• 53:49
  How did Sean Archer as Castor
• 53:53
  Troy come to the conclusion that Castor Troy would use phrases like,
• 53:58
  excuse me, I have to go to the little boy's wee wee room.
• 54:04
  That's like a weird vocabulary choice.
• 54:06
  Like if I was impersonating a terrorist,
• 54:09
  I'm not sure terrorist for hire.
• 54:11
  I'm not sure I would come to the oh, he probably uses child references
• 54:16
  when he talks about it already on drugs at this point.
• 54:19
  Yeah, they're all really fucked up at that point.
• 54:22
  Yeah, that's true.
• 54:23
  That was a really dumb thing to say, though.
• 54:25
  It's a dumb thing to say.
• 54:26
  It's not as dumb as the face waterfall.
• 54:29
  The face waterfall is face water.
• 54:30
  I do like that we did that as like a wave to just kind of went down the line.
• 54:34
  That was nice.
• 54:34
  We don't talk about it.
• 54:35
  You kind of like water falling on your own face.
• 54:37
  Yeah, there you go.
• 54:38
  Girl.
• 54:39
  It's true.
• 54:40
  Peter, I have been naked with you in a hot tub before.
• 54:42
  It's true. And that this was weird.
• 54:44
  This was weird. Yeah.
• 54:46
  Well, did you waterfall on each other?
• 54:49
  No, I made water.
• 54:50
  I went to the wee wee room.
• 54:53
  That's the best part about hot tubs.
• 54:54
  It's already to like a sterilizing temperature, right?
• 54:58
  Yeah, sure.
• 55:00
  One hundred and five. That cleans it.
• 55:02
  No bacterial growth at all.
• 55:04
  Nick, when you were talking just a minute ago
• 55:07
  about terrorists versus terrorists for hire, I thought though
• 55:10
  it was an important distinction that you made that Castro
• 55:12
  Troy is terrorist for hire because he's he's really just in it for Castro Troy.
• 55:18
  He's in it for himself. He's in it for the money.
• 55:20
  He's he really doesn't care about the good versus evil thing that's happening.
• 55:25
  You know, like when there's an explanation that's given,
• 55:29
  but it doesn't have much weight to it, he says,
• 55:32
  let's release the biblical plague that hell they deserve.
• 55:35
  So he's got like a little bit of like a misanthropic approach to
• 55:40
  peak U.S. American civilization in L.A.
• 55:43
  is this like beacon of the culture, like it's garbage.
• 55:46
  We need to just get rid of it because look at this trash that exists in LA.
• 55:52
  But really, like, how much does he care?
• 55:53
  You know, it's clear that he's like he's in it for the lifestyle.
• 55:56
  And again, I found that to be super interesting for for the story,
• 56:00
  locating it in 1997, that the terrorist is not like ideologically driven per se.
• 56:06
  He's like in it for the glamour.
• 56:07
  He's in the lazy and for the parties and for like getting into the hot tub,
• 56:11
  getting naked, like living the fast life.
• 56:13
  But for some reason, and I think this this connects to the fact that this is
• 56:18
  gets caught in the middle between myth and science fiction.
• 56:21
  We're never quite told what his motivations are beyond that.
• 56:24
  It's like just a job for him now.
• 56:26
  And it felt a little dissatisfying to me not to get a little more backstory.
• 56:30
  Like, why is he doing of all the ways he could make money?
• 56:33
  He's a charismatic person.
• 56:35
  He could make money a million ways. Why is he doing terrorism?
• 56:37
  Yeah. Why not be a politician? Why not be a Sean Archer?
• 56:40
  You know, right? My yeah, he becomes Sean Archer is like, wait,
• 56:42
  this is a better hustle. FBI.
• 56:44
  My real question is why get rid of that amazing mustache?
• 56:47
  I just thought about that.
• 56:49
  I did like the mustache a lot.
• 56:50
  Mustache and mustache and milkshakes.
• 56:52
  Yeah. It's scratch everything I just said.
• 56:54
  Let's go to mustache. Forget all that.
• 56:56
  It's unfortunate that they started with mustache and went to non mustache.
• 57:01
  I mean, it's a great way of telling passage of time. Yeah.
• 57:04
  But by changing his face.
• 57:07
  I mean, it's better than most movies we watched.
• 57:09
  Do you? Yeah. It's not facial hair off.
• 57:11
  It's just face off. Yeah.
• 57:13
  Also, when he does get to the prison and they do the like
• 57:16
  introductory prison scene where he's like in the spotlight,
• 57:19
  just in his like skivvies and just shot from behind like backlit.
• 57:22
  I'm like, God, that man's back is muscular.
• 57:25
  Like, well, he had just filmed Conair.
• 57:26
  Yeah, he was ripped. He was ripped at that point. Yeah.
• 57:30
  Rox, I saw you get something out of your backpack
• 57:31
  and I was really hoping it was the novelization of face off.
• 57:35
  Nick and I were talking about this earlier.
• 57:37
  No, well, I just ordered the novelization of Conair. Oh, so.
• 57:43
  Yeah, I'm very psyched for that.
• 57:45
  It's well, I was told to bring a favorite quote.
• 57:48
  Oh, yes. Make sure that I had.
• 57:50
  Yeah, that in the pocket.
• 57:53
  Some of my favorite things I were sad in this film by Nicholas Cage.
• 57:56
  Let's go. Let's go. I'm bored. Let's go.
• 58:02
  A relatable.
• 58:06
  If I were to send you flowers, where would I wait?
• 58:10
  Let me rephrase.
• 58:12
  If I were to let you suck my tongue,
• 58:17
  would you be grateful?
• 58:19
  I would be grateful. Yes.
• 58:23
  Hmm. Let me show like some slight romantic gesture.
• 58:27
  No, no.
• 58:29
  This will work better.
• 58:31
  You know, it's surprising to me that that move of just sticking your tongue out,
• 58:36
  like and leaving it there, waiting for something really not onto it
• 58:40
  hasn't like become more of a like that we don't call that
• 58:44
  wildly erotic and appealing. Right.
• 58:46
  And have a name for it in the way that like the Spider-Man kiss
• 58:49
  has become a thing in pop culture.
• 58:51
  You know, see, I just assumed that this is when society
• 58:56
  as a whole just kind of said, you know what?
• 58:58
  I'll back off on French kissing.
• 59:00
  This isn't cool.
• 59:01
  Like we we've jumped the shark on tongue to mouth action
• 59:05
  and then we started eating ass.
• 59:07
  So it's great.
• 59:08
  Thanks, millennials.
• 59:11
  Sorry, Freeman.
• 59:12
  So my my favorite line was actually about
• 59:17
  Casper Troy from the mouth of Eve.
• 59:20
  And at this point, Nicholas Cage is John Archer.
• 59:24
  And Eve doesn't realize she's speaking to to Casper Troy.
• 59:27
  But what's interesting is at this point in the plot,
• 59:31
  they're both being kind of dressed down by the women in their life
• 59:34
  and being told like, you suck at being in a relationship with me
• 59:37
  and I really don't like it.
• 59:39
  But they're hearing it from this other perspective.
• 59:41
  And both of them kind of responding with a little bit of understanding
• 59:44
  and and compassion, which I think was really well done.
• 59:48
  One of the better points of writing in the story.
• 59:50
  But Eve tells Casper that the only three things she's ever heard him say
• 59:55
  are suck my tongue, nice ass and see you later.
• 1:00:00
  That is a great line.
• 1:00:02
  Do you guys want to throw any shade at Conair?
• 1:00:06
  It's boring.
• 1:00:07
  Especially I mean, in comparison to Face Off, it's a boring movie.
• 1:00:11
  That's really what I thought when I watched it was like, OK, there's actually,
• 1:00:16
  you know, there's a fair amount of similar energy, similar plot points
• 1:00:20
  even happening between these two movies.
• 1:00:23
  Yeah, the fact that that Conair is a bit more of a coherent movie,
• 1:00:29
  I think is not a good thing.
• 1:00:31
  I think that it makes it we're supposed to take it more seriously.
• 1:00:36
  Or there's more sort of potential for us to to do that.
• 1:00:41
  Whereas, like I said, with Face Off, you're really pushed to the brink of absurdity
• 1:00:44
  and you're either jumping on or not.
• 1:00:46
  But I think Conair was trying to be well, to put it in your guys's language,
• 1:00:51
  Conair for Nick Cage is just it's a it's a tough guy film all the way, 100 percent.
• 1:00:57
  Face Off is a tough guy and a fucking weird film all in one, which,
• 1:01:02
  in my opinion, is better. Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  And I didn't watch Conair Roxanne did actually with your mother, right?
• 1:01:11
  Who knows the the writer of the film?
• 1:01:13
  She went to high school with the guy that wrote the movie.
• 1:01:17
  So, OK, what I want to say is, I think if we lived in a culture
• 1:01:22
  that was more focused on mythology and less on novel,
• 1:01:26
  then this film would have received a great portion of critical acclaim
• 1:01:31
  that went to L.A. Confidential.
• 1:01:32
  I rewatched L.A. Confidential and it's good.
• 1:01:35
  Don't get me wrong, but it's good because it really nails the form of novel.
• 1:01:40
  I don't think there's anything particularly special about it, honestly, as a film.
• 1:01:44
  But it's just a it's a really good adaptation of a novel.
• 1:01:47
  And L.A. Confidential is based on a book.
• 1:01:49
  But Face Off, on the other hand, is this loose adaptation of a few different myths,
• 1:01:54
  including Oedipus, apparently.
• 1:01:56
  I didn't see it coming, Nick.
• 1:01:57
  But thank you for telling me it was coming.
• 1:02:00
  Because it came and.
• 1:02:01
  Oh, yes, it did.
• 1:02:02
  Yeah. But I think that, you know, the blockbuster movie award
• 1:02:07
  and the MTV Movie Award show that this movie struck a chord with people.
• 1:02:11
  And I think it's that chord inside of us that still thinks myths are interesting
• 1:02:15
  and worth dealing with and thinking about, even if not everything is explained.
• 1:02:20
  It's a little wacky. It's out there.
• 1:02:22
  There's plot holes everywhere.
• 1:02:23
  It's kind of weird. It's a little freaky.
• 1:02:25
  It makes you feel uncomfortable.
• 1:02:27
  But actually, it's got a ton of staying power.
• 1:02:30
  Also, Face Off has more boats and Gina Gershon.
• 1:02:35
  Conair lacks these features.
• 1:02:37
  And then I guess the last thing I would want to say in terms of making a really
• 1:02:41
  clear case for Face Off is, I mean, it's y'all's show.
• 1:02:46
  You know what I mean?
• 1:02:47
  You should pick whichever movie you want to watch again.
• 1:02:48
  So you have to ask yourselves the questions.
• 1:02:50
  Do you really want to watch Conair for a third time?
• 1:02:54
  Do you want to visit that show?
• 1:02:55
  Do you want to visit that drama on yourselves?
• 1:02:57
  You have to ask yourself that question.
• 1:02:59
  You know what I mean? Or do you want to watch Face Off again?
• 1:03:02
  Do you want to watch John Travolta acting like Nicholas Cage?
• 1:03:05
  So this movie directed by John Woo.
• 1:03:10
  And we do have a scene of doves.
• 1:03:12
  If you could John Woo another scene in this film, where would you put the doves?
• 1:03:18
  The romantic dinner scene.
• 1:03:21
  Candles are lit.
• 1:03:24
  She sits down. Yeah.
• 1:03:26
  Doves. When hide from that 70s show gets ripped out of the car.
• 1:03:33
  Doves. He just turns into birds.
• 1:03:36
  As you pull them out.
• 1:03:37
  You just toss birds.
• 1:03:41
  Boat through boat.
• 1:03:43
  Doves. It's all it.
• 1:03:45
  It was a magician's boat.
• 1:03:47
  I'll say the compositing of the boat flip with them flying through the air
• 1:03:51
  is the funniest fucking thing.
• 1:03:52
  It's so good.
• 1:03:54
  What if the doves carry them to the ground?
• 1:03:57
  And that explains how they were safe. Nice.
• 1:04:00
  Very nice.
• 1:04:01
  I'll say that I I think they really should have made us be more uncomfortable
• 1:04:05
  with the sex scenes when they're with the other person's partner.
• 1:04:12
  And one of them should have involved the Prince song when doves cry
• 1:04:15
  and there should have been doves at the moment of climax.
• 1:04:17
  It should have been a full on like maybe seen some tits and ass like they should.
• 1:04:21
  They should have pushed it farther.
• 1:04:23
  What if they just replaced Nicholas Cage's dick with a dove's head and neck?
• 1:04:28
  He just pulls out a dove head.
• 1:04:30
  How do you know that that's not what he's got?
• 1:04:31
  Yeah, it could be actually.
• 1:04:34
  And that's why the wife didn't question it because that's what she's used to.
• 1:04:37
  Listen, a dove's head feels the same.
• 1:04:40
  So how would you feel if you were accustomed to just having a bifurcated penis
• 1:04:44
  and then like you get this surgery and now you've got dove head dick?
• 1:04:50
  Where did the bifurcation come from? Is this because of claspers?
• 1:04:54
  I don't know. I just think it's funny.
• 1:04:56
  Looks like a snake's tongue.
• 1:04:59
  This is an aside from both of the films, but I'm just curious about it.
• 1:05:02
  Since you all become cage experts.
• 1:05:04
  I always forget that he's a part of the Coppola family.
• 1:05:06
  Oh, yeah. And I wonder, is there an episode where you all have talked about that?
• 1:05:10
  And I missed it because I want to hear you guys talk about that a lot.
• 1:05:13
  He while putting a request in at some point for you all to dig in on the dynamics
• 1:05:17
  of where he fits in the family, because they seem like Hollywood royalty to me.
• 1:05:20
  And I never quite think of him as that, but he is kind.
• 1:05:23
  I mean, he's separated himself so much from it intentionally.
• 1:05:26
  Yeah, he had to I think two roles
• 1:05:30
  that he did as Nicholas Coppola before he switched over.
• 1:05:33
  It was Peggy Sue got married and well, there was Rumblefish,
• 1:05:36
  but there was also his appearance in Fast Times.
• 1:05:39
  Fast Times. That's what I was thinking.
• 1:05:40
  And then I think originally Peggy Sue got married, but that later got changed.
• 1:05:44
  Yeah. Do you know where his screen name comes from?
• 1:05:48
  I don't. It's from Luke Cage, Power Man,
• 1:05:52
  because he loves comic books.
• 1:05:54
  Do you think that had he not gone with a screen name
• 1:05:57
  and not gone to Nicholas Cage, the Coppola name would have
• 1:06:00
  completely changed his career and what roles were offered to him
• 1:06:03
  and available to him?
• 1:06:04
  I mean, in terms of nepotism or.
• 1:06:07
  I have this story in my head that Coppola equals art film.
• 1:06:10
  And when I think of Cage, I think more like mass appeal.
• 1:06:14
  Yeah, I think changing his name probably gave him more freedom
• 1:06:18
  to just act out in the way that he is known to.
• 1:06:23
  It separates him pretty, pretty thoroughly.
• 1:06:26
  I like it. Yeah, me too.
• 1:06:29
  Yeah, it feels like it gives him somehow more artistic breath.
• 1:06:32
  Like there's some name to uphold.
• 1:06:34
  Like, oh, you're a Coppola.
• 1:06:35
  Like we don't act in those films.
• 1:06:37
  Sorry, Sophia Coppola doesn't do that.
• 1:06:39
  You know, oh, OK.
• 1:06:41
  What act? You're right.
• 1:06:43
  Well, that is true. Sorry, Sophia.
• 1:06:44
  You're so weird.
• 1:06:47
  Great director, just not teenagers are weird.
• 1:06:50
  That's what it was.
• 1:06:51
  Good director, good director, not a good actor. Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  Last thoughts on this movie.
• 1:06:57
  Fourth time watching it, like had so much fun every time I turn to this movie,
• 1:07:00
  I find some something else.
• 1:07:02
  If there was a character from this movie that you had to invite
• 1:07:05
  to a dinner party with, say,
• 1:07:08
  a weirdly religious family member, like you just have to do it.
• 1:07:13
  Which character would you bring to dinner with your weirdly religious aunt?
• 1:07:16
  Your cult aunt? That's such a good question, because I have so many of those.
• 1:07:20
  And Midwest, baby, you got it.
• 1:07:23
  The answer is that the henchmen, when they're in the like slick layer,
• 1:07:28
  Castro choice slick layer before the shootout with the FBI.
• 1:07:32
  Yeah, tight layer. Yeah, it's a really tight layer.
• 1:07:34
  I want to hang there. And it was on the.
• 1:07:36
  That's why they won the award.
• 1:07:38
  Yeah. Well, maybe that award isn't such a big deal after all.
• 1:07:41
  You know, what a Homer play.
• 1:07:42
  But Castor Troy.
• 1:07:45
  But this is John Archer speaking as Castor Troy in this moment says,
• 1:07:48
  I want to take his face off.
• 1:07:51
  And the bald dude who makes out with his sister isn't, you know,
• 1:07:55
  because he's an idiot.
• 1:07:56
  Because he's Cassavetes.
• 1:07:58
  Yeah, because he makes out with his sister.
• 1:07:59
  He makes poor choices. He's immediately on board.
• 1:08:01
  He's like, cool, we're going to do that. It's going to be a party.
• 1:08:03
  But then there's that guy in the background who there's like a pregnant pause
• 1:08:07
  and he goes, how are we going to do that?
• 1:08:10
  He's not afraid to ask Castor Troy the question that could get him shot in the head.
• 1:08:15
  And I need someone to ask my messed up hands.
• 1:08:19
  The question that nobody else in the room has the balls to ask.
• 1:08:22
  Good answer.
• 1:08:24
  I'd invite Thomas Jane from this movie because I want to touch his hair.
• 1:08:27
  OK.
• 1:08:29
  I'm going Gina Gershon.
• 1:08:33
  She's so hot because they're all the same.
• 1:08:36
  But Gina Gershon, she different.
• 1:08:39
  It's true. And it would just be nice distraction.
• 1:08:42
  Plus, I've seen what she can do in bound.
• 1:08:45
  You guys watch bound. Yeah.
• 1:08:48
  I would have to bring Dubov.
• 1:08:51
  Oh, hell, yeah. Yeah. Dinner with the machine.
• 1:08:53
  Nice. Pre or post lobotomy, Dubov.
• 1:08:56
  Um, mid lobotomy.
• 1:09:00
  Yeah, pre.
• 1:09:01
  It's got vomit.
• 1:09:03
  I've just constantly got somebody being electrocuted at the dinner table.
• 1:09:07
  Yeah, that's perfect.
• 1:09:08
  That's a great way to get one over on your messed up aunt.
• 1:09:10
  Yeah. Make her sit next to a mid lobotomy Dubov with vomit.
• 1:09:14
  Yeah. Also, Dubov is the homie.
• 1:09:16
  All that Castor Troy has to say is, hey, I didn't touch your wife, man.
• 1:09:21
  He immediately.
• 1:09:22
  Believes them, you know. Yeah. All right. I take you for your work.
• 1:09:26
  We all need a person like that.
• 1:09:27
  He was now in a state of stupid.
• 1:09:30
  He'd been stupid and pretty good.
• 1:09:34
  OK. All right.
• 1:09:35
  Face Waterfalls, dinner parties and mom complexes.
• 1:09:40
  That's what you come here for.
• 1:09:41
  Yeah. Face off seems to has it all.
• 1:09:43
  Yeah. And dove dicks.
• 1:09:45
  One more. One more abacus beads slides across.
• 1:09:49
  Ding. Done. See you guys at the sequel.
• 1:09:53
  Well, thank you all for being here.
• 1:09:54
  Thank you guys. Yeah. What a treat.
• 1:09:58
  All right. Compelling arguments from both sides.
• 1:10:00
  Yeah. Thanks to all of our guests this week.
• 1:10:03
  Yeah, it was really nice to see Shay and both Gary and Rock.
• 1:10:07
  So our house couple couple of guests just bring it all back for round three.
• 1:10:13
  Round three.
• 1:10:14
  So the 16. So the 16.
• 1:10:16
  So now Nick and I are going to discuss the arguments and.
• 1:10:20
  Yeah, I guess we're going to just think back to like what we've heard today
• 1:10:24
  and put aside our biases.
• 1:10:27
  Yeah, that's going to be hard because I'm biased as hell.
• 1:10:30
  Very much so.
• 1:10:31
  Like I'm not here to change.
• 1:10:33
  We know. Yeah.
• 1:10:35
  OK, well, let's start with Shay.
• 1:10:37
  So Shay's arguments where we've got a a fun kind of action campy
• 1:10:43
  romp that is able to be jumped into at any moment.
• 1:10:48
  Enjoy. Yeah.
• 1:10:49
  Like it's you're there for the journey.
• 1:10:51
  You're not there for the individual pieces or necessarily even the individual actors.
• 1:10:56
  It's all just a right.
• 1:10:57
  Because we've got a large ensemble in this one much more than when you have in face off.
• 1:11:02
  Yeah. And so it's just about being taken forward that just sort of a summertime
• 1:11:08
  summer feeling, summer love, summer block.
• 1:11:10
  And then we've got Gary and Rock's vying for face off with an argument.
• 1:11:17
  She went pretty deep, deeper than I would expect for this film.
• 1:11:20
  But that's that's why we have Gary and Rocks.
• 1:11:24
  And, you know, it's we learned how that it's edible.
• 1:11:28
  Uh huh. Uh huh.
• 1:11:30
  Yeah, I feel weird.
• 1:11:31
  Like if I were to vote against it, am I voting against mother loving?
• 1:11:35
  We'll find out.
• 1:11:40
  There are some things I just don't know if I can put on like the Internet as being against yet.
• 1:11:45
  So fair. I mean, for numbers alone, bifurcated penises, mother loving.
• 1:11:50
  But no, they made I think they made a really strong case for this being a much better
• 1:11:54
  character genre piece and just a really good front to back story.
• 1:12:01
  Right. Yeah. That's also how you have to eat a peach.
• 1:12:05
  The front to back for hours.
• 1:12:08
  And, you know, it doesn't feel like we have fatigue from watching face off.
• 1:12:16
  I know we've talked about the length of the movie.
• 1:12:18
  Yeah, it is the longer of the two.
• 1:12:20
  It's 220 as opposed to like 155 for Conair.
• 1:12:24
  I know for me, the performance is effective.
• 1:12:28
  I know for me, the performances of face off really are what sells it for me, especially when you look at Nick Cage in both films.
• 1:12:36
  This face off really hinges on Nick Cage's over the top personality and his wild emotional swings,
• 1:12:44
  which work really well for the character, whereas Cameron Poe is just a stoic.
• 1:12:50
  He's a semi justice machine steadfast justice machine machine with a very swingy accent.
• 1:12:56
  But that role could really be played by any wall of muscle for the most part.
• 1:13:01
  Like, I don't think his Nicholas Cage doesn't bring any gravitas to that role other than just being huge.
• 1:13:09
  That might be fair, but he also Nicholas Cage, the actor, adds charisma that I don't think any wall of muscle can necessarily pick up.
• 1:13:19
  The shots of Nicholas Cage like winking back over his shoulder, the manly husband father.
• 1:13:28
  I'm going to say this is the sexiest Nick Cage.
• 1:13:30
  It's up there. I think Birdie is still my sexiest Nick Cage.
• 1:13:35
  With the teeth removed?
• 1:13:37
  No. Wait, was it Birdie or Racing with the Moon?
• 1:13:41
  Yeah.
• 1:13:42
  I don't know. Come gutters, Cage.
• 1:13:43
  Yeah, Racing with the Moon.
• 1:13:44
  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely that one.
• 1:13:47
  Plus, with that dance move on the bowling alley.
• 1:13:49
  Yeah. And it's got Crispin Glover in it.
• 1:13:52
  Oh, yeah. That adds to Nicholas Cage's sexiness.
• 1:13:55
  But no, like this is a very, very attractive, mature Nicholas Cage.
• 1:14:03
  This is his prime. So both movies, he's in his prime.
• 1:14:06
  Yeah. I mean, it's the same year.
• 1:14:08
  Like these were filmed within two years of each other.
• 1:14:10
  But he's got that hair.
• 1:14:11
  These are juggernaut movies for him too.
• 1:14:12
  I mean, these are two of his biggest movies.
• 1:14:13
  Oh, that's fair. We haven't discussed these are two thirds of the.
• 1:14:18
  They're really big action films. Yeah.
• 1:14:20
  It's a tough call.
• 1:14:22
  It is. I know in terms of just when I sit down to watch Con Air,
• 1:14:27
  any scene I watch, I'm going to enjoy.
• 1:14:30
  I don't know that I enjoy it front to back.
• 1:14:33
  Like I just zone in.
• 1:14:34
  I just zone in and out of that film just because there's nothing really drawing me in.
• 1:14:38
  Whereas face off, I really like the whole thing.
• 1:14:41
  Even like my critiques of like the weird prison scene, it's still interesting.
• 1:14:46
  And the performances across the board are all great.
• 1:14:49
  Yeah, there are difficulties in a movie that is primarily viewed in a singular like backdrop.
• 1:14:57
  Yeah. Like we've just plain is most of it.
• 1:15:00
  Yeah. And I mean, it's not like it. Yeah, it does.
• 1:15:02
  But not even that. I mean, we discussed in the first one, like this movie was being rewritten a lot.
• 1:15:06
  That movie was being rewritten a lot. So there's a lot of sloppiness there.
• 1:15:10
  That ultimately does come together better than it should.
• 1:15:14
  But I can say that that's much more of a turn off your brain popcorn film
• 1:15:18
  as opposed to like a good character film, which if nothing else, Nick Cage is a character.
• 1:15:23
  Yeah, it's a fantastic product. Is it the better of the two?
• 1:15:28
  I'm going to say yes. Yeah.
• 1:15:33
  I think the package is best in Con Air.
• 1:15:37
  And I think it's the most accessible for an audience.
• 1:15:42
  You know, you'll never get me to bad mouth a boat chase.
• 1:15:46
  And Face Off has one of the top boat chases in my life.
• 1:15:52
  But I think Con Air has the people's heart.
• 1:15:57
  Let's throw to the people. No.
• 1:16:01
  Yeah. First episode comes down to Peter. Fuck.
• 1:16:04
  Because I think I. Oh, you're voting for face.
• 1:16:07
  I was voting for face. Oh, that was unclear.
• 1:16:09
  Oh, I thought it was very clear. Sorry about that.
• 1:16:11
  I went for the one that actually had acting in it.
• 1:16:14
  So you actually said something, though, Sean, that maybe has made me flip flop,
• 1:16:19
  because Gary and Rox sold me pretty well.
• 1:16:22
  But you also talked about how you can jump into Con Air at any point
• 1:16:27
  and kind of just be fine and face off.
• 1:16:30
  You're like, the fuck? What is this thing?
• 1:16:34
  Ah, man. One of these is a better movie.
• 1:16:38
  One of these is more enjoyable to watch repeatedly.
• 1:16:42
  Both of them are overblown.
• 1:16:46
  Both of them have about 20 minutes too long.
• 1:16:52
  Con Air. Cool. I love Con Air. Yeah.
• 1:16:56
  Well, thank you to everybody who got us to this point.
• 1:17:00
  We already have that recording. You don't need to do it again.
• 1:17:02
  Yeah, but I'm going to I bought the fucking gavel.
• 1:17:07
  Yeah. Thank you all for listening.
• 1:17:09
  This is a new kind of experiment for us.
• 1:17:11
  So hopefully you enjoyed it.
• 1:17:13
  And if you want to talk with us on social media and tell us that we're stupid,
• 1:17:17
  you can find us at cage underscore match underscore pod, specifically that I am stupid.
• 1:17:21
  Yeah, you're stupid.
• 1:17:23
  Not you, Peter, but whoever said we're stupid. You're stupid.
• 1:17:26
  Yeah. Kirk. Wait. Nice.
• 1:17:28
  If you'd like to see photos of all of us in tight denim with dirty white
• 1:17:32
  white tank tops on and maybe some mullets.
• 1:17:36
  Oh, you can go to our Patreon. Yeah.
• 1:17:39
  Special thanks to our Sparkle buddies, Josh, Sean, Josie, Rico, Matt, Adam and Bill.
• 1:17:44
  And to our cage dancers, Ira, John, Freeman, Lance, Nathan and Cameron.
• 1:17:50
  Really love your support. Cameron Poe.
• 1:17:52
  Yes, it's him. That's why I voted. Sorry.
• 1:17:55
  It's biased. Fixed. It's all fixed.
• 1:17:58
  And as always, two thirds of the hosts are. Hey.
• 1:18:04
  All right. Have a happy face waterfall, everybody.
• 1:18:06
  Right. Well, I don't like it.
• 1:18:15
  Bye bye.
• 1:18:17
  So I was in a tattoo shop recently getting a tattoo done,
• 1:18:21
  and a woman came in and said to a visiting artist at the shop,
• 1:18:26
  I want to get a tattoo of a weasel with a shrimp dick on the bottom of my foot
• 1:18:33
  as a portrait of my ex so I can stop his likeness out over the next couple of years.
• 1:18:39
  And so I was so she walks out and the tattoo artist draws it up while she goes
• 1:18:44
  down the road for a beverage, she comes back in and he shows the drawing that he drew up
• 1:18:49
  and he had the shrimp shoved into the crotch of the weasel backwards.
• 1:18:53
  So is the ass of the shrimp, just the shrimp tail shrimp tail,
• 1:18:56
  shrimp tail, which was bifurcated actually. Oh, perfect.
• 1:18:59
  Yeah, true. That is. And she got the tat done.
• 1:19:01
  So she's out there. So if you're listening to this, hit us up.
• 1:19:04
  And, you know, we want to make contact, you know, good on that tattoo artist, too,
• 1:19:08
  for being like this.
• 1:19:10
  This sounds like something that you would do in a tattoo shop.
• 1:19:12
  Like this, this sounds like something you're going to regret at some point.
• 1:19:15
  But let's just go for it. We're doing it.
• 1:19:17
  Full send. Put it on the foot.
• 1:19:19
  And you got one as well because you were so inspired.
• 1:19:21
  I did. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:19:23
  On your face, though, which is really impressive.
• 1:19:25
  I didn't want to ask.