Latest / Massive Agent Podcast / MAP 051: The Truth About Millennial Home Buyers w/ Jacob Gaffney

Transcript

MAP 051: The Truth About Millennial Home Buyers w/ Jacob Gaffney · Massive Agent Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: On this episode of the Massive Agent Podcast, we're sitting down with the editor in chief of Housing Wire to talk about the truth about millennial home buyers and how you how to speak to millennials in your marketing.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: The Massive Agent Podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: We need generation tips and strategies to give you more leads and sell more homes.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: I love to buy houses.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: I like to sell houses.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: It takes brass balls to sell it.
0:25
SPEAKER_03: Wait a minute.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: Leads a week.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: I've had better have I got your attention now.
0:34
SPEAKER_03: Here's your host, Dustin Brom.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Hey, what is going on, Massive Agents?
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to episode number 51 of the Massive Agent Podcast.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm Dustin Brome, your host, and today we have an awesome guest on.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: We are sitting down with the editor-in-chief of Housing Wire, Jacob Gaffney, and we're going to be talking about the truth about millennial homebuyers.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but I'm confused with all the different articles out there and all the conflicting information about whether or not millennials even want to buy homes or where they want to live.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you read one article that says they only want to rent, and another article says, no, they're buying more homes than the generation before, and everything in between.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: So Jacob and uh HousingWire, they do an awesome job of covering our industry.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to get him on and get his insight because he's in the he's he's he's in the data.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Like he's the editor in chief.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: All the content that goes out, he sees, he puts his stamp on.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And so he has some amazing perspective.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Because look, we're trying to sell more homes here.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to help you close more loans.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: So to do that, we have to know who our uh ideal audience is.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: We we have to know who our potential customers are and what they want.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And then once we know that, we can know how to speak to them in a way that that's gonna resonate, in a way that's gonna get their attention.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: So let's learn about millennial homebuyers, the truth from Jacob.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, real quick, if you're new to the show, my name is Dustin Broome.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: I am the founder of the Massive Agent Society.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll I'll talk a little bit about that at the end of the interview.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you're not familiar with the Massive Agent Society, I'm a national speaker, trainer, and coach for agents and loan officers.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm also a practicing realtor with EXP Realty in Salt Lake City, Utah.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'm the co-founder of LeadsWebinar.com with my good friend Jason Frazier.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: And before we start the interview, I just want to let you know about a timely piece of info.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I am speaking on podcasting.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm doing a piece for the Marketing Interrupt Virtual Summit.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: It um I'm speaking on December 18th at 10 a.m.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Pacific time on podcasting secrets, basically about how to how to do a podcast.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: If you want to start your own podcast or a flash briefing, you're definitely going to want to be there.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Um go to marketinginterrupt.com.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's an awesome virtual summit put on by the agent marketer, and it's only it's four days long.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to travel to it.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: There's no travel expenses whatsoever.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: And uh you can watch all these different topics like um Facebook ads, podcasting, um, YouTube, uh, Instagram, you name it.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's a full-on marketing conference for real estate peeps, not just agents, not just loan officers, not just title people for everybody.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: And you can watch it from the comfort of your own phone, your own laptop.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: It's only 50 bucks for the whole thing.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So go to marketinginterrupt.com and register for that.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So that's on December 18th, and and I'm speaking at 10 a.m.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Pacific time on that date.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: So check that out.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: All right.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: So Jacob Gaffney, welcome to the Massive Agent Podcast.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you being here.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: How's it going?
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: It's going, it's going really well.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh I love that we get to kind of download your wealth of knowledge about the topic and about just what's going on in the real estate industry in general, because you see it all as uh as the editor in chief of Housing Wire, it all comes across your desk before it's published, correct?
4:14
SPEAKER_01: That's that's correct.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And I will say that uh, you know that um, well, for one, I want to do a podcast now.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: So I love that what you're doing.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I definitely I'm pumped about getting more involved because I think you're right.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, we we we at HousingWire promote the responsible extension of homeownership.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: We think that it is, you know, very important for people to get into homes, uh, to get on the wealth ladder, to uh build communities.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: We think not only does it make for a better person, and it makes for a better community, and it makes for a greater nation.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's what we're after at Housing Wire, and we're aligned with uh with everything it is you're doing.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely an honor to be on the show.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: As you said, um millennials, they are uh they're they are a very, very enigmatic bunch to a lot of people.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: So we can begin to break down some of it for your listeners today.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I need this personally because I hear all, like I said, all these all these misconceptions about what the hell they even want.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the number one thing in marketing, and I'll say it again, this is so crucial.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if you're brand new to real estate marketing or if you've been in the business for 35 years.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: In if you want someone to notice you and your brand and the fact that you are selling homes or doing loans, you have to get their attention first.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And the way to do that is to speak their language.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: You have to know what they want.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: And then you can start to get their attention by saying, hey, we have what you want.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: So let's learn what millennial home buyers want.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And first off, um, Jacob, how long have you been with Housing Wire?
5:47
SPEAKER_00: What did you what did you do prior?
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And tell us a quick little bit about you.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was covering the securitization markets in London uh for Reuters before I moved over.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, before and and that was uh, you know, in 2008, 2009.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Um the market was getting so bad.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh I had been at I'd been in a big institutional press houses for some time.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: I was looking for something small, something challenging, and I found a little startup outside of Dallas, Texas, called Housing Wire.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: That was a blog.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the owner knew he had something, he was on to something, and uh he wanted to make it into a viable news entity.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm pushing my ninth year at Housing Wire now.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Started out as a managing editor, became an editor, became executive editor, and now I'm the editor-in-chief.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: So I continue to run the newsroom, I continue to run the staff, many of which are uh millennial aged.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: So I feel that uh we have a bit of an insight into the the mind of the millennial.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and and you're exactly correct.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, millennial demand for home ownership is the biggest trend influencing housing.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: It was in 2018, it will be in 2019, and uh and I have the numbers to prove it.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: So uh that's a little bit about my history, and uh, you know, it's it's been a it's been a wild ride, but uh, you know, I think in the next nine years we're gonna continue to put out that information, that data.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of a lot of what we do, Dustin, is correct the record uh because we are not interested in headline writing to grab readers.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: We are not interested in clickbait headlines, but uh yep.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, click clickbaiting, news jacking, uh, all that kind of techniques, URL stuffing, which has since gone by the wayside.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, we have seen it all, and there is a reason that we consistently land in the top Google news sources for mortgage and housing finance, and that is because we are independent and uh and we are we are fighting the good fight.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And um, I mean, I think we're really the only one out there who does what we do.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just awesome.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: I have a great team supporting me, and uh and you and you know, your readers, if they sign up for our emails, they'll get to know our team very intimately, very closely, and uh and we can't wait for what what Housing Wire has to offer in 2019, but uh that's not why we're here today.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we'll get to that because I I'm I'm genuinely curious because um when I think of HousingWire, so well yeah, I'll I'll throw this out there real quick and then we'll get into the millennial stuff, the yeah, the the main event.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: But when I think of HousingWire, I first off, I think of mortgage news because of just it seems like Housing Wire has traditionally been more mortgage focused.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe that's accurate or not, we could talk about that.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: But then I also think credibility too.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: I see HousingWire as a very credible news source within our industry.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I um one of the big reasons why I I love having you on the show today is Housing Wire to me uh brings credibility and uh professionalism and uh accuracy, I guess.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, so so I I definitely respect you guys and what you're doing.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I see an article come across from Housing Wire, I I I think subconsciously I I give it a little bit more weight and a little bit more credibility in my own mind, um, as as if it were from another source.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And and so you got that going for you.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Um that's good.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you know, it is uh with with with great responsibilities such as that, it it's hard work, Dustin.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, it is, I'll just say that that we are working hard to to keep that trust.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: It took us years to earn it, but it'll only take seconds to lose it, right?
9:38
SPEAKER_01: So when you've built that trust, it comes with it such a such a great responsibility to to present the unbiased information.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Are we perfect?
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, we make mistakes.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: So we before this call, I was discussing a uh a run and a mistake I made last week.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we're only human, uh, and but uh guess what?
9:56
SPEAKER_01: So are millennials.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to believe, but they're not these amorphous amoebas that uh that can't get nailed down to buy a home.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: They do have uh several different uh succinct and different qualities about them, but uh, you know, uh they they they need housing as well.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: So we can definitely tell your tell your listeners how we can help get them in there.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me just ask you right up front, are millennials buying homes?
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And how?
10:28
SPEAKER_01: So uh let's let's okay, so so that that's uh that's the easy yes or no question.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Lay it on us, Jacob, because you've got all sorts of data and info on this, and I just I want to hear what you have to say.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: So Well, I I post I posted something to LinkedIn, and you know, there is that argument that, hey, we don't we don't know building enough homes for millennials to buy.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And okay, yeah, I under yes, we're not buying enough homes.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not we're not building enough homes.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay, everyone knows that, but I'm not talking about supply and demand issues on the bricks and mortar side.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about mentality, we're talking about desire, we're talking about a very human quality, not quantity.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to go into that data.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: I think it clouds the issue.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: If you if you want to buy a home, you will find a home.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Period.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: You will make it happen if you want to buy a home.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: If you want to buy a home, you need a human being to help you buy a home.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's really no, that is that is universal.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: That is not going to change.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: You may be able to use your phone to help you get a mortgage, but ultimately you're gonna want someone who's gonna walk you through the process.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter how many uh Reddit conversations you have.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna want a human somewhere in there who's gonna help you walk through the personal finance, and that's gonna be a real estate agent.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, they're they're there first and foremost, and uh that's you know, that's that has pros and cons for having the first point of entry into the housing market being a real estate agent.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: But uh through uh interviews such as these, we hope that uh that can improve for millennials.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, they definitely want to buy homes.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: They're often mistakenly portrayed as showing a preference for renting.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you will read a lot of Renter Nation articles.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Housing Wire published a few ourselves before we began to really get a clearer idea about the millennials.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, millennials are appreciative of buying a home.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: They may have different motivations.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: They are definitely faced with a different set of circumstances that is delaying their home buying, but they appreciate the act of buying a home, and they're just as clueless as the rest of us were when we bought our first home.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, refinancing is not going to go up next year.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Interest rates are not going to go down next year.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Half of homes being purchased are first-time homebuyers, and that's set to grow.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's set to grow for sometimes half.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so half the ones guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: So that data is coming from from them.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so um it's it's it's different when it when you go into different areas, and we can talk about other areas that aren't, you know, quasi-related to the government, but that's the that's the lion's share, and uh, and that's more than enough business for uh everyone to go around.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I keep hearing that millennials they they just want to rent because they don't want to be tied down to a certain area for very long.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: They're very flighty.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: They're you know, they're they're bouncing around from one place to another.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: And and like I'm sure some are.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of I mean, there's a lot of people that uh in all generations that do that for many different reasons.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: But it when you hear something like that, it's easy to paint the whole damn generation with a broad brush.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: And and and there's nothing they hate more than that, obviously.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: But I do have a saying that I that I share with people um that is uh how when people ask me, you know, can you sum up millennials in one line?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: I tell them, well, millennials would rather lose friends than lose Wi-Fi.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And that is the truth.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: They are a very mobile, digital first mentality generation.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but moving around all that takes time, it takes energy, it sucks a little bit of the life out of you for some time.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, who didn't go a little bit nuts in their 20s, right?
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, so there is in that statement, Dustin, is your answer.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: They are getting older.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Millennials are getting older.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about when you look at the 30-year-old, the 35-year-old demographic, that chip of millennials, that homeownership growth rate is skyrocketing.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: It is, it is just dropping off.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, in the 35 to 55 bucket, you know, the Gen Xers and into the baby boomerms, that there's no room for homeownership growth there.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: But in the 30 to 35 area, which is coming up, I mean, when you look at the numbers of millennials, estimated between 78 and 90 million millennials out there, one-third of them own a home.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: That means 50 million millennials uh are eligible to one day purchase a home.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: And uh data just out today showed that First American is predicting that 10 million of those will want to buy.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: That leaves 40 million or roughly half the entire millennial generation will one day potentially become a home buyer.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of money on the table, and there is no amount of over preparation for that.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: For anyone, yeah.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's impressive.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: So so then so obviously it sounds like millennials are buying homes and they will be in the future.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: So now we just now it just should be a discussion of how to reach them, you know, how to get through to them.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And I I love that saying about you know, they'd rather lose friends than Wi-Fi.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I I think I'm at that point myself personally.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's just the world we live in.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: So um I read I read an article recently, I forget where it was from, I don't think it was from you guys, but it talked about how millennials um they they prefer, like they'd rather work with an influencer, like a celebrity or an influencer versus like your your uh legacy, more traditional realtor.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: So I see that as a big opportunity, actually, for for anyone who's doing all the stuff that we talk about on the show all the time, whether you're a loan officer or an agent, content marketing, doing a local show, positioning yourself as the local expert.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And by doing that, guess what you're doing?
16:28
SPEAKER_00: You are becoming an influencer in your local market when it comes to real estate and the area.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you're doing that, you're already going to become an influencer, and millennials are more likely to seek someone like that out.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can I can definitely tell that that's not a housing wire article.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I could I could take a couple of swipes at that.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, no uh is that accurate?
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, I I'm not gonna say it's inaccurate, but I would say it's not as precise as I would like uh in in in hearing about millennials.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Millennials um uh influencers, huh?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, sure.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: We we we all we all like celebrity.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's not nothing that's gonna be I mean uh reverse mortgages are sold by having celebrities from that generation tout them, right?
17:19
SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, that that that's nothing unique to the millennials now.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: One thing that I would add to that, not to detract from uh from that from from what you just said, Dustin, but one thing I'd add to that.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: No, this is good.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: I I welcome this because like I don't want people to get the wrong impression or or it sounds like just more context is needed.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: So let's say you're uh you're a a real estate agent and uh you know you you you could get a great deal through a bank for your potential agents or however it works or whatever it does, and then that's what you're gonna push.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: So then you become part of uh you become part of the problem to the millennial, frankly, is when you begin to associate yourself.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: That's not the way branding works with millennials.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: So branding is a completely different experience.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of them, when it comes to the really big financial institutions, many millennials have a negative view of them because of their experience in the subprime housing crisis and what they witnessed their parents go through.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of them have a have a distrust of any big brands that are not associated with being digital first.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: So Apple, Google, Amazon, great.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, when those guys get into mortgages, Google's dipped their feet into it.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Amazon is has a department that they're trying to build out, and it's a difficult market to get into, obviously.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that Silicon Valley branding effort rings very, very well with millennials.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: And the people who know that most is Silicon Valley.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Now, what Silicon Valley fails to understand is where the jump over to the real estate mortgage markets is that those markets are very much people first.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: They're not brand first, they're people first.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: So, what a good real estate agent needs to do is find a happy balance between the two.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Going back to what I said, where you know these millennials are getting older.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: What do I mean by that?
19:07
SPEAKER_01: It means they're getting married and they're forming families.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: So who are they gonna want to get a mortgage from?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna want to get a mortgage from a real estate agent who's on the side of a bus uh, you know, stand or whatever that whole uh joke is?
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Bus bench.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, ah, I I kind of love the bus bench ads.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I try to I try to talk on your level and I failed that.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, but you get the idea.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Um or if they're flipping around Instagram and they steal and they see a real estate agent who's standing in front of their, let's say, um, well, I don't want to name any brands, but they're standing in front of, you know, the real estate agent is very proud of what they've done, you know, and then they're very proud of the of the uh realty that they're associated with, and a lot of times the realty will promote that, et cetera, et cetera.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: I understand that.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh but does that really connect with a millennial, that older millennial who's now getting married and forming a family?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Think about that.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: So real estate agents need to be on Instagram taking pictures of their dinners.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: They need to be on Instagram, taking pictures of their dogs, taking pictures of their kids, showing their human side.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: That is going to connect with millennials big time because they believe in the power of being human.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Humans are bros, right?
20:22
SPEAKER_01: We're bros being bros.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, look at the hashtags that go around it.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: It's all about being compassionate and being cool and uh all the slang and all that indicates a very, very humanized and technical mindset in people.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's often easy to say, oh, they're digital first.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and like and and it's ironic that I say they would rather lose friends than lose Wi-Fi.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a reason that I use that statement, is that their digital friendships are actually a bit stronger than their in-life friendships.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And they can make great friends with people they've never even met.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So that word, that word of mouth, that's the penetration point.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, you sell you sell a home to a gamer.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Sell a home to a gamer.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Well watch the watch it flood in.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
21:10
SPEAKER_01: If you don't know uh anything about Fortnite, uh, you know, then then you're just not moving fast enough to keep up with the market.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: If you if you don't know um and another thing, and that goes into the connectivity that I discussed with you a bit earlier with the recent Erickson uh connectivity report.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: And we could we could discuss that in terms of going into the types of tools real estate agents use, but um but in terms of now you're talking over me, I don't know what the hell that means.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so okay well let me break it down a little bit um if if you'd like and uh if I if I go out there too far, Dustin, just so uh I I got an email from a real estate agent giving me their thoughts on a subject, and that was great.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, I still love emails um, you know, from from readers.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I love people, uh Jay Gaffney at housingwire.com.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Shoot me an email, let's have a talk.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh that's fine.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh I love hearing people's opinions and and it does very much scope our approach to our news coverage.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: But at the end of this, uh at the end of this email I got from a real estate agent, it said, uh, you know, sent by my iPad, T Mobile Network.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And I thought to myself, you've got to be kidding me.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a real estate agent using communicating via an iPad on T Mobile.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, you can't even do a sight unseen video walkthrough with that kind of equipment.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, five 5G is coming.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: If you have a 4G phone, right?
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: You 5G is the next generation.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: It's going to reach 40% of our population.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay, last quarter, okay, last quarter saw an 80% growth in mobile data traffic.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: That is video.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: That is video from phones.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: If you can't grab your iPhone or your Samsung or whatever it is, take a call from a millennial and say, hey, look, I know you're out in Baltimore, but I found this place up here in Cedar Springs.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me just go ahead and turn my camera on and I'm going to walk you through.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's the living room.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: It's quite nice, and up there is the vaulted seat.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: You need a you're going to need a 5G connect connection to do that.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, think of think of what we went through, Dustin, you and I, uh, just to get this conversation recorded, right?
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Skype.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, hey, hey, but but they had one job, Jacob, one job.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: I I know, but that seamless connectivity is the way of the future, and they are building the networks now.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And I we don't have to go into the news, but ATT is launching a Samsung phone.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, we just went into the news, but next year, and they're beginning to do, yeah, they're beginning to do the four the 5G network, which is essentially really small data towers.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, these data towers, the millimeter technology fits on top of light posts.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just, yeah, I and I mean, and and I get all this number, so I I I I have information, data that comes from Ericsson, uh, which is building the networks.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: I have information comes from and I use T-Mobile, by the way.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm on T-Mobile, so um, so so don't do as I do.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: But uh I I can tell you that um in the next in the next 10 years, we're talking about 10 million millennials want to buy homes.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: In the next 50 years, we're gonna be 30 million millennials are gonna be in home.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: In that same time, in that same time, uh the 5G networking is gonna be 40% of the world's population.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So when you think about all of that, that is video.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you're a real estate agent and you do not have seamless video capabilities, there is going to be an uphill battle that you're gonna have to you're gonna have to climb.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Right because we're talking right now.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: I think that's true right now.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Like right now, if you're not doing video, like you don't exist.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the average millennial um views streaming HD video for 12 hours a month.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's gonna that rises by 25% every year.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: So we are they are building their connections online.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Instagram stories, Snapchat, uh, YouTube, huge.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's huge.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's all about mobility, it's all about visualization.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: And it's not like you can buy a 5G phone when they first come off and open it up and start going through a house and showing things to uh some uh potential home buyer site on scene.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: You have to get good, you know.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: And when you when you speak to marketers, maybe you could back me up on this, hopefully you will.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: It takes time to get good at doing podcasts, it takes time to do good at doing streaming HD videos, it takes time to be able to not seem like you're trying to sell something.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: It takes time to just be effortless and expressive and emotional.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And anything that looks like it's trying to sell is gonna smack of desperation to a millennial and they're gonna be out of there.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Because one thing they won't do is stick around for something they don't like.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: They do have a lot more courage, and um, like I said, they're brand loyal, but they prefer people.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: But people loyal, uh that's not that's not the same.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, went off on a tangent a little bit on um on connectivity, but by 2024, final point, 1.5 billion people will be on 5G in in in the developed world.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: So how many of those will be millennials?
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Most of them.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: So just so that's what's coming down the line.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: So every day you need to think is my iPad going to be effective?
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Because if you want to buy new technology next year, you have to start saving now because this stuff costs a lot of money, doesn't it?
26:51
SPEAKER_02: So it does.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: But I I really do believe in what you put in, you get back.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: So there's that.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: But you know, back to the millennials and what they're doing.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: You had mentioned before about them preferring renting.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, um, there was a recent study out that that showed that they were also like flocking to the suburbs.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was uh interesting coverage.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was picked up by uh by mainstream press.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: It was on cheddar, for example, you know, millennials are flocking to the suburbs, like that, like there was an issue with that.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but that really wasn't the the purpose of the study at all.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I thought was was pretty interesting is that uh as people are talking about millennials, they seem to have a preconceived notion of what this generation does, and that is kind of guiding their news coverage.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: And I think that uh good news coverage should probably uh look at the fuller picture and have several sources in it.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's what we try to do.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Love it, yes.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh well I love I love getting into the context of everything because knowing about 5G and knowing that that's coming uh and what that means, it's just one more reason to start practicing now.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: And you're 100% right, Jacob.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: If you if you're gonna be an effective marketer, it takes practice.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Like nobody just wakes up one morning, they're like, oh, I'm gonna be an amazing effective marketer today.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: It takes practice and trying things and figuring out what resonates with your intended audience and what doesn't.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: And and under having this context about millennials will help.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: But now it's like, what do you get in front of them?
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Video's huge, and and you've got to be where they are.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, all of the above, Facebook video, you know, um, all of it.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: So I think right now, like that needs to be that needs to be a major part of everyone's marketing plan moving forward.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And and don't be talking about real estate all the time either.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: I I did a full show on why you should stop posting about real estate in your marketing if you're an agent or a loan officer.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Just stop it.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Don't talk about real estate anymore.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Just talk about the local community and you know, the new, the new bar that opened down the street, the new park that just opened, uh, the best hiking trails, uh, the best places to go sledding with with your family.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Like that stuff positions you as the local expert.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And video is an effective way to do it, and then people make a personal connection with you, and it's cliche, but it's absolutely true.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: People, especially millennials, hire those who they know, like, and trust.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And video is the way to get there.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: So and that is so true.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: You really do have to put yourself out there because the less elusive you seem to be as a person, the less elusive that you will appear to be to millennials, and the less elusive that home buying population will be to you.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's just about ways of connecting digitally and using the different social media.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of people are are are concerned about taking the leap.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not really a leap.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: You just have to sort of start slowly get into the routine, and it's just like working out, right?
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Go to the gym every day.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: And then once you're in the habit of going to the gym every day, begin to up that intensity, begin to up that intensity, make it stronger, make it stronger, build, build, build.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's no different.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think that social media connection, you know, it doesn't cost anything to get started.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you will begin to see what you're good at, and you begin to see what you suck at, and uh focus on the former and begin to dismiss the latter and you know, be sincere.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's how you're gonna be able to get a larger foothold in the millennial homebuying market.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: So the practice that I did that got me comfortable in front of a camera and in front of a microphone was Snapchat.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: It it was back when this was like three years ago when I really jumped into Snapchat, and I was snapping multiple times per day, every single day.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And before you know it, you're comfortable in front of the camera.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't I didn't do it intentionally.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do Snapchat just so I can become more comfortable in front of people.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: It just happened through through just numbers and volume and and just enough practice.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: So like you don't have to go out and start a Facebook live show if you've never been in front of a camera.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, live is intimidating.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Live can be intimidating, but start somewhere.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Start with Instagram stories, start with Snapchat, start with uh, you know, just recording a quick little video and putting it up on Facebook.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be live, but you've got to start practicing.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and like we've talked about, I think millennials are definitely the most receptive and and even the most uh expecting that their agent or their loan officer or whoever they work with in whatever they're doing, they speak their language on the platforms that they're already on.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And that means Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, Facebook, all of the above.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And the, you know, and the the going back to that article recently that said that you, you know, millennials were flocking to the suburbs and all that.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that was not that was not the news, and it was an Ernst ⁇ Young uh survey just among twelve hundred uh millennials.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: So not even you could argue that that's not even a good um, you know, a good representative population, but it was picked up, so you know, and uh and it was it was Ernst and Young and it was it was a good name and all that.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, they it was uh the actual finding when you look at the research was that millennials looking in the suburbs was only a trend that was continuing.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't something new.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: They weren't abandoning renting in the city to flock to the suburbs, as a lot of press made it sound like.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: They were actually just continuing to keep an open mind and continuing to look uh for for homes in the suburbs.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: So that was a very, very interesting take.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: But was also in that study, they um, you know, there and there was the usual suspect, you know, student loan delaying homeownership, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, some things like that won't change.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: But they did mention that uh millennials were, again, deeply distrustful of traditional American institutions.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: So you wanna you wanna keep your distance and be cognizant of that.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing that is very important to remember, um, and you know, this is uh this is not a knock to real estate agents uh who jumped right into their field without pursuing higher education, but you have to remember that millennials uh really value a good education.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: And why do they value it?
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Because they owe so much money for the education they got, right?
33:42
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you spend 50k on your brain, you happen to put a lot on education.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: So keep that in mind.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And what does an education what does an educated mind think?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, it thinks a lot of itself, right?
33:54
SPEAKER_01: It thinks it's it thinks it's always right for one.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Um it prefers a reliance on its own abilities.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'll say that again.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Millennials prefer to rely on themselves, right?
34:07
SPEAKER_01: So this is not a bank of mom and dad coming out of the woodwork.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: This is someone who's gonna need a bit of advice without pandering, that's gonna need to hear about low-down payment options.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna want to hear about the differences between a broker and a banker.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: They're wanna, they're gonna want to hear about how the difference between a credit score, a credit report, what they see, what the lender gets.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna want to hear all that because they're gonna want to rely on themselves to finally make the decision.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And the more that you could provide to them to reach that goal, the more trust they will gain in your abilities to help them.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: So you'll in many ways become a mentor.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And the upside of it that's so amazing is you are making people who are more financially responsible going on.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: So that means lower defaults down the line, that means uh better access to cheaper funding as we go along.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's just really the way the capital markets are meant to be in this great nation.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's an interesting perspective.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I hadn't I hadn't have not thought of that before.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, if there's more responsible uh borrowers in the future than there are now, yeah, that just helps the overall economy.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: That's I never thought of that.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that's well, I'm glad.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Do we go to get in there?
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Or do we leave on a high note or we have to keep going?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: We have to keep going, yes.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, that but it's but you know, I mean, we're we're we're joking around, but that uh one of the reasons that is interesting in Housing War is when I went to cover the Ernst ⁇ Young survey, I also looked up uh information from Wells Fargo Securities.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and so why would Wells Fargo Securities be doing studies on millennials?
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, they're investing in the mortgage bonds that come out of their first-time homeownership.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: They're looking to invest in uh in Ginny Mays, they're looking to invest in Fannie Freddie's.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: So what they want to do is get an idea of the uh the strength of the collateral, not only, but the strength of the borrower as well.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: So Wells Fargo Securities will do research on millennials um and just to see the the likelihood of default because they're looking to invest in those products in the secondary market.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: So and that was really the thing that Housingwire uh did that made us so different is when I came over, HousingWire exclusively covered this mortgage servicing side.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: And I brought the securitization, the secondary markets aspect to it, the mortgage bonds.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then later that translated, like I said, it's natural for uh when you're when you're writing about securities to also write about the the lending side of things.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: And I actually went to my editor and Reuters and I discussed this whole holistic approach to coverage and uh and kind of got shouted down from the rafters.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: So uh I had to come back to America to find someone who is uh willing to take the risk on news coverage that kind of connected the entire mortgage finance ecosystem, which brings us to the fact that now that we've done that, where do we go?
37:07
SPEAKER_01: And we're getting more and more readers here emailing us asking us to cover the real estate side of things, um, which we're trying.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: So uh this is kind of this, yeah, this is kind of the first of our foray this year going into the real estate side.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: We've been really successful.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we've been getting a lot of a lot of great feedback um and a lot of constructive feedback, and uh and real estate agents are a very uh vocal group, so which is which is good and bad, as you can imagine.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: So we've uh we've really enjoyed it, and I think that we're going to be bringing more and more real estate focused news into the market in 2019.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: That's uh I was gonna ask what what's next for Housing Wire, and and that right there, that's what I've noticed is you guys seem to be making more of an effort to speak, not just to the mortgage world and the finance world, but also to real estate agents, because yeah, there's there's this there's definitely a desire out there from agents for for more for more news, for more content um that's reliable and that they can trust.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And um uh you know, you've been getting that feedback as well.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: So um so you guys are doing a concerted effort to to speak to uh to more agents then.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: We are.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: It's uh you know, we're we're we're a small independent news organization.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of people when they do finally speak to us, they think one of two things.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: They think one, that we have a lot more people working for us.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Um we we don't.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: We just we just cover big, you know.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh two is they uh can't believe that we're actually nice people.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: So um there's some uh there there's I was shocked to find out you weren't a just a total asshole.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, um just kidding.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Get a few drinks in me.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: No, but uh seriously, yeah, it's uh it's it's something.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: And the other um third thing that I just thought of uh that I think Bear's mentioning now is that people actually want to learn more about housing wire.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: So I always thought that you know the work spoke for itself.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but more and more, especially as millennials are looking to buy homes, and we've kind of captured this millennial home buyer market where they are now reading us for their research into you know how to buy a home.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: There, one of our uh most popular stories consistently is how to buy a home, even with bad credit.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: We wrote that story because no one else had an accurate version of it.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: And we looked at the trends and searching and we're like, hey, no one's answering these questions for these people who have these questions.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: And the other big story that we have uh is about how to write a proper cover letter.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh people have questions and no one is answering it sufficiently for them uh except us.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: So that kind of came, and more and more as we covered that, we saw that there was a real need to connect on the human side of the transaction.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: So that led us over to the real estate um to the clip.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of a weird jump that we had captured the borrower's imagination before we went to the real estate agent.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And we're we're just gonna keep doing it slow.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: My take on the real estate agent is to be very, very careful uh going in because we want to do it right.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: And when I take a look at the real estate market, it is one of those markets that takes good, hardworking uh men and women of America and nickel and dimes them to death.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are so many things people want real estate agents to buy, and there are so many promises, so many people make them if they just spend a little money, coach here, buy that, do this, pitch up, get this, market that.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just like, who how do you how do real estate agents make any money?
40:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, how do they if they I have a friend, I have a friend who works at EXP Realty, and he told me he spent$10,000 in marketing, you know, and I and I said, Well, well, did the NAR fees go up?
40:59
SPEAKER_01: He said that doesn't include the NAR fees.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, sore spot, but it is something to think of.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: That's where I see Housing Wire potentially making a good dive, is taking a look at these products and determining their wealth and worth and if they actually produce what they're promising.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying we're gonna be like consumer reports of the real estate agent world, but uh it would be nice if if real estate agents could know whether or not they will get their money returned if they begin to invest in marketing.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: And I and clearly there is and there's clearly a market for it.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's why people turn to you uh to hear what you have to say, because there is clearly a market for it.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: And and it's just uh, you know, as compressions, margins, and spreads tighten into next year, you know, we're gonna have to think of a way to keep the market profitable for real estate agents, because if we can't keep it profitable for real estate agents, those millennials won't get homes.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, those millennials won't want to become real estate agents themselves, which is another thing that people rarely talk about.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, a big, a big side effect that no one really talks about to the subprime housing crisis is not just that millennials are deeply distrustful of banks, but that they don't want to work at banks anymore.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: There's very few 25 to 35-year-old real estate agents and loan officers that are coming in to replace the ones who are gonna be going out.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: So we have a we have a huge labor problem in this nation.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: There are more jobs than people to fill them.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna look at do millennials, frankly, do millennials prefer buying a home from someone their own age?
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so do baby boomers, so do Gen Xers, so do whoever is coming out out next after the millennials, whom we'll be covering at Housing Wire.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's uh, you know, it's it's something, it's just food for thought for us.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: And these are questions that we need to answer before we make at Housing Wire a very, uh, very distinct foray into the real estate news coverage sphere.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: I I think there's a lot of need for that um because you're right, there's this you know, the this joke out there among agents that everybody knows and agrees with.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: It's if you want to if you want to get rich, sell something to an agent.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Because they just we spend so much damn money.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Now a lot of it is just pissed away and squandered on stuff that doesn't work.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I because I have a Facebook ads training program myself, and I've seen all the other ones out there, there's some that are five thousand dollars a month, a month, just for the education and training.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Then you have to actually go run the ads and pay for that.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to have a positive ROI.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: So like I've seen there's a lot of nonsense um uh gimmicks and and ads.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And services and this and that.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, a lot of it's awesome for sure.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: There's some really, really good stuff out there for agents.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of trash.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of trash.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if you guys kind of highlighted uh the good and bad, um that's definitely and not in a way that's bought and paid for by the vendor, of course, uh, which you you might see elsewhere, then that uh I think that would be a huge draw.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I'd go check that stuff out for sure.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: It it just it saves people time and money.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, to the time and money argument is a very, very important one.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: And five thousand dollars a month might more.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: That's on the high end.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's to think that to think that well, yeah, but to think that there's someone out there who is going to take that money from someone who worked hard to get that commission uh is just uh it's just it's just wow, um, you know, it better work.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: But the other side of the the time and money argument, and because I do hear uh a lot of real estate agents who discuss the amount of money they spend, that's not the only thing you are giving when you're signing up to all these different things.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: You have to keep in mind that the data that you are offering, and you have to keep in mind when you're on social media accounts, the information that you're putting out there can be mined.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I would never buy a Facebook ad simply because of the information you have to give them and the stuff they pull.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: They get paid on their end in information twice, three times over whatever money you provide to them.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: They're able to build algorithms based on your spending behavior, based on your peer review credit scoring, based on what your friends do, what your friends watch, that's so much more valuable than any money changing hands.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: So you speak of HousingWire and our and the fact that we're quants and data geeks and that sort of thing, and that's what I can tell you.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: That's what scares me most.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: It's not that Amazon's entering into the mortgage market, it's what Amazon will do when they get the humda in from a from a potential borrower.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: What will they do with that information?
46:03
SPEAKER_01: Your information.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: They will use it for their ends, for their means, for their goals, not yours.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: So that is a big, you know, be careful of the uh of the big data state.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: I know I'm not I am not a conspiracy theorist.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: I am not saying, you know, view everything in incognito windows, and you know, I'm saying put yourself out there for for searching, yeah.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: But just yeah, but just keep in mind that you're looking to see what's getting into the mind of millennials.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: There are institutions that are looking to get into your mind as well.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: And the more you understand the rabbit wheel, the more you can get off of it.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: So um I I I think you know, taking people's advice just as it is.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: Anyone who listens to this conversation and does exactly what we say is is going to be, you know, part of the problem going forward because we need real estate agents out there thinking for themselves, empowered to do themselves uh what's right and for their borrowers, and someone who understands what happens to personal data and how it's bought and sold in you know, in in in in our financial institutions.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: So that's a little bit of a caveat on the side that I think that's something to consider when you know that you you just as you are observing, uh you are being observed as well.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: So bear that in mind going forward.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: That is true.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: That is absolutely true.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: So what's uh we kind of talked about what's next for Housing Wire.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Um I uh you guys really got onto my radar in a big way at your uh conference or your summit, I believe you guys prefer to call it, uh, in that was in Dallas earlier this year, engage.marketing.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: And that was an awesome event.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Ryan Sirhant was a keynote speaker.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: Um that was just a solid, solid event.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: And I I networked with a lot of amazing people.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, are you guys doing that again?
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we uh we do have the engaged marketing.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and whenever someone mentions how great engaged marketing is, I always like to give a big shout out to my coworker, Sarah Wheeler.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: She is the one who works tirelessly to put that event together.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, she she is the one who uh works a lot.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: She, if you if you met her, Dustin, she'll be like, oh, I didn't do anything.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: She is the nicest person around, but she is going to bring another great summit.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh that's gonna be September 13th and 14th down in Dallas, Texas.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: So um they're gonna keep bringing it again.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's in Dallas again in this next September.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, um uh I don't actually I don't know.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: So uh you know I'm not on the marketing side, but uh I do know we are doing it again.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: And um they're putting it together as we speak.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh I thought it was in Dallas, but now that you're saying it's in Dallas like that with a level of disbelief, I'm thinking.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh like it's in Dallas again?
48:59
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I looked it up.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: I cheated.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it is actually okay, forget everything I said.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: So just cut it out.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna leave it to you to cut it out.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you cut it out.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: So uh I will absolutely not cut it out.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Let's take it from the top.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: So, as I was saying for the first time and not erroneously, yeah, yeah, the engaged marketing 2019 event is June 13th and 14th, and it is in Charlotte, North Carolina.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Charlotte, okay, cool.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: In June.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: So I was looking at our old information.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it is it's in it's in Charlotte.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: It's at the Weston in Charlotte.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: And uh everyone, if everyone really needs accurate information on engaged marketing, they should contact Sarah Wheeler, um, S Wheeler at housingwire.com.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh it is a it is a great event.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: I I I attend uh in my role as a as a as a journalist.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm not uh as you can see, I'm not very keyed into the marketing aspects of of our company, unfortunately.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: But uh you're staying in your lane, you're doing what doing what you're supposed to.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, it's it's a matter of leaving um leaving it to the experts.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I go up there and I give a panel uh usually at engage marketing and other events where I discuss, you know, marketing efforts and how that appears to people who are in the news, how that appears to you know, readers and millennials.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: But the actual tactics and techniques used to make successful real estate agents is something that can be gleaned with the panels at engaged at marketing and also on the lending side as well.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty, it's it's pretty exciting stuff.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: And I definitely think it was diverse.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Like that it wasn't uh what I enjoyed about it is it was different, it was an alternative to the other real estate conferences out there, and it I got perspective from the mortgage side that I didn't have before and that I wouldn't have had if I just stuck with the same old conferences.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: So I I like that it's a more well-rounded thing for the industry, not just like one little part of it.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And it yeah, so I'm stoked that it's happening again.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it is a great way to connect with other people in the industry.
51:03
SPEAKER_01: And uh education is just so important to not getting things wrong again and knowing where everyone stands, uh, especially as we begin to move to more digital first.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh we have to be there for uh for everyone.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're all in this together because one thing we learn um when you know when when everything hits the fan, right, then we're all in it together for sure.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Right?
51:30
SPEAKER_01: So so we have to be in it together.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: We have to cheer for each other when we're winning, not just when we're losing.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: So um I I agree with that.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you you enjoyed it.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, it's it's the opposite.
51:41
SPEAKER_01: I I sit on the lending servicing security side, and it's great for me to meet agents.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I I find them to be some of the smartest, most exciting entrepreneurs out there.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I I'm very inspired by real estate agents who really are on top of things and know what they're doing.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you mentioned Ryan and his keynote, you know, he opened it.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: Ryan Sirhand?
52:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: For engaged marketing, he flew open the doors and shook everyone's hand and told them hello as they were coming in.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, on the on the stuffy securitization side of things, we don't have that kind of personality.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Our mortgage lending CEOs, uh, we have a few of them who are just awesome.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, Casey at Movement Mortgage, just an amazing individual.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he had a couple of people there.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember Adam.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he was there.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: He does his, yeah.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: So hard to miss Adam Constantine.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is true.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: But he does his own, you know, videos, he does his own uh advice for for lending brokers, the whole thing.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: And that information is applicable to the real estate side.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: So we're now seeing for us, we're seeing a lot of people see the value in extending the housing wire model of inclusion uh to other aspects.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: So we're not as bifurcated as a market anymore.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: We're not, you know, it's not just realtors and then lenders apart.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: We're finding a lot of synergies that are bringing us together and we're getting better at doing business.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's uh why that conference is so good at bringing everyone under one roof because there's really no um there there's there there will never be any replacement to that face-to-face moment that you can get sometimes.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's a great way to hone your pitches too, right?
53:28
SPEAKER_00: So yes, absolutely.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: You know.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, I have so Jacob, every time we have a guest on the show, um, I have some rapid fire questions just to let people get to know you a little bit.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: And most of it's marketing related stuff, but I'm so I'm curious how you how you would respond to them.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: And then uh then we'll wrap it up.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh so by rapid fire questions, does that mean you're going to ask them very quickly, or you intend for me to answer them very quickly, or yes to both.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Right off the top of my head.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't have to be like you know, talking like crackheads, but um, you know, they're either or questions and we'll move quickly.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: So pick one and we'll move on.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't need to elaborate on them, and I I really frown upon it.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll don't don't elaborate, got it.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Facebook or Instagram?
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Instagram.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Instagram or Snapchat?
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Instagram.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Book or podcast?
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Book.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: iPhone or Android?
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Android.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Really?
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Alexa or Google Home?
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, neither.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Skip, pass.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: You don't like?
54:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh the my my jury's out on home listening devices.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: So it's a privacy thing.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: But uh and also I haven't interface enough with the Google product to say that it it's it's I would be giving a I would give uh it would be irresponsible for me to answer that one.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Burgers or pizza?
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Pizza?
54:58
SPEAKER_00: New York or LA?
54:59
SPEAKER_00: New York.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Mac or PC.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: Mac bubble or no bubble in the real estate market?
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no bubble.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh podcast or vlog?
55:12
SPEAKER_01: Podcast.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: YouTube or IGTV.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: YouTube.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: YouTube or Facebook Live.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: YouTube book or audio book.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: What was the first one?
55:24
SPEAKER_00: Book or audio book?
55:26
SPEAKER_01: Book.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Walk or run?
55:30
SPEAKER_01: Run.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: Uber or Lyft.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Uber.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was a trick one.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: And then what one app recommendation do you have for people?
55:41
SPEAKER_00: Um doesn't have to be marketing, doesn't have to be real estate related.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: What is what's your favorite app right now?
55:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, my favorite app is one called Sports Engine.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: And what it allows you to do is build different types of uh organized events in a 3D interface that can be later used to add animation.
56:03
SPEAKER_01: So um that said, I'm not sure how applicable something like that could be to your listeners.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: We just uh downloaded Slack, um, which so I'm gonna change my answer.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: So forget Sports Engine.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm actually going to go with Slack.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: So we just downloaded Slack.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: We've switched from Google Hangouts to Slack.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: We're going to um For Housing Wire, you mean?
56:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for HousingWire and it's Oh you guys were so you guys are a virtual uh company?
56:32
SPEAKER_01: No, no, we we do have we do have headquarters, but um you know we do have reporters out in the field and we do like to stay connected and like I said, we do employ millennials, so they could be sitting right next to you and they'd still prefer to I am.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's uh but this way, you know, people have uh you know ways in which we keep connected.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: We do have one editor who is based up north, so that helps us keep connected, and uh it does also help organize your projects in a way that email cannot.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: So um email is a very passive way of communication, and we prefer to have something that's very active.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: So uh we switched over to Slack, the team loves it.
57:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, you you can add those emoticon reactions that everyone loves and gifies, and we're going to be expanding the platform in a very exciting way in 2019, but it's too early to talk about just yet.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: If you have me on in six months, I'll tell you all about it.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, a little tease.
57:26
SPEAKER_00: I see.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: I see.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna leave us high and dry after a little tease.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's cool.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's have to chew on that for the next six months then.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: If you invite me back on in three months, I'll come back on in three months, though, Dustin.
57:40
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy myself so much.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: I'll come on every week.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: We could do it, we could do a co-show together.
57:44
SPEAKER_00: You want to co-host this thing?
57:46
SPEAKER_00: That would be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your career.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: That would be the end of it.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: I probably it probably uh maybe I spoke a little too soon there.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: The offer letters in the mail, Jacob.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: All right, for uh for the co-host spot.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like I better sign it if I know it's good for me.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: Jacob, thanks so much.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: You have some awesome perspective and insight that uh most of us aren't privy to or that we just, you know, in our busy lives trying to sell homes, we just don't come across.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
58:17
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: And um is there is there anything that uh what what do you think we can do to help Housing Wire with your mission of uh everything you're trying to do?
58:29
SPEAKER_00: What can we, the the listeners or agents and loan officers do to help you guys?
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, besides go to besides you know going to the website.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that um, you know, again, we're we we we talked a lot about uh what's everyone has something worth selling, but what is worth buying?
58:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're an independent organization and we have to put food on our tables as well.
58:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you see anything that uh that we may offer that might have a price tag associated with it uh for housing wire and you find it not useful, let me know because I want to be sure, like if you like, for example, Dustin, if you had uh a bad experience at engaged marketing, I'd want to hear about that.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: So we want to be sure that the products that we do offer the market are useful and effective.
59:16
SPEAKER_01: And we don't want people to be, you know, just sitting there in in a bit of anger because they didn't like something that they connected with us.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: So we're always trying to improve our products and our offerings, and uh that requires feedback, honest feedback, brutal feedback sometimes.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: So you can let us have it.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
59:34
SPEAKER_00: All right, Jacob Gaffney, editor-in-chief of Housing Wire, thanks so much.
59:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you guys, but I certainly learned a bit about uh about millennials and because look, in marketing, we have to know how to speak to the audience that we're trying to reach.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: You have to.
59:51
SPEAKER_00: So you have to understand what their motivations are, you have to know what they how they think.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: And so this was a that was a super helpful conversation and and a lot of helpful insight and context for me that I didn't know so that now I can craft my marketing messages better.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: That's the number one thing in marketing.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_00: You have to get attention, and you do that by speaking the language and hitting the pain points or speaking to the to the desires and the likes and everything of your intended audience.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: That is everything.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: So if you can nail that, you're gonna have successful marketing campaigns.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: That is huge.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_00: Housing Wire is doing some great stuff, so go over and check them out and um you know get on their mailing list.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: It's totally free.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: They do not have a paywall, unlike that other real estate media company.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: So there's no membership.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing to pay for at this point.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: So um I I really appreciate the news, and I do feel uh strongly that we need to be staying on top of um current industry news and getting it from a reputable source without all the bullshit, without the misleading headlines, without the clickbait, without all the nonsense is is awesome.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: So um the more we can support these guys and anyone else like them that that uh you know that I may not be aware of, that this isn't just a Housing Wire promotional piece.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: I I want you guys to know that.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any uh any ties to them.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't have any um agreements with them.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_00: They're not sponsors of the show, like there's no they're not paying me to say these things.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: I just ever since the engaged.marketing conference in Dallas earlier this year that I spoke at, I've really respected what they've done and what they're doing and how they do it.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: So uh I and I think that they should be supported.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: And I know that a lot of you guys are looking for looking for a better resource for for real estate news, and I think HousingWire is it.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: So show them some love and when you when there's an article that's worth sharing, share it from them from their website.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: Then there's no paywall or any of that crap to get around.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy that as much as me.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_00: Now, uh some of you guys have asked how and hopefully you've been getting value from this show and from our uh from our Massive Agent Minute flash briefing.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't enabled that yet on your Alexa device or on your Alexa app, just go to MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash our briefing.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_00: That's O-U-R Briefing, and that'll take you directly to the flash briefing.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_00: You could search your Alexa app for Massive Agent.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: You could under skills uh on Amazon desktop, just search Massive Agent in the search and you can get to it and enable it.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: And then you can add that to your daily flash briefings.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: We'd appreciate that.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: And if you are a listener to the flash briefing, please consider leaving us a review on um on the Alexa platform.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: That helps us get seen by more people and helps us to stand out if you've if you've gotten value from it.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, I've been asked how how you guys could help the show, how you can help us out in spreading the word.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, the biggest thing that you can do as a listener to bring value to us is to leave that review or rating, either whether it's on Alexa or for the podcast on iTunes, on Spotify, wherever it is that you listen to the show, leave a review or a or a rating.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: A review is even better if you take a couple minutes, 90 seconds, whatever it is, say a few things, uh, rate us.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: That really helps us with exposure.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: It's SEO for podcasts.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: And so definitely help us out there.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_00: We'd appreciate that.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: And then another thing you can do, use our Amazon link whenever you're shopping on Amazon.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh we have an affiliate relationship with Amazon.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: We have an Amazon store set up, and uh there's a link to that over on MassiveAnPodcast.com slash resources, MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash resources.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: And if you're gonna be shopping on Amazon, which I know nine out of ten of you will be within the next 30 minutes, most likely, um, if speaking from my own experience with Amazon, it really helps if you go through our link when you're shopping.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: It costs you nothing more.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, but because Amazon is getting the traffic from us, they will give us, they will pay us a small commission off of whatever is sold.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's a way that you could help give back to the show and help to fund future endeavors and you know, just better systems, better guests, like all that stuff that we that we want to do for you guys.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh it costs money.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_00: Right now, I finance the show 100% out of my own pocket.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: We don't have any sponsors.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm totally paying out of my own pocket for the hosting, uh, the time it takes.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh I now have somebody editing the show for me, so that costs a couple hundred bucks a month and and it's all worth it.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_00: But um, so if you're looking to give back to the podcast, we'd appreciate the hell out of you if you went through our Amazon Amazon store just by going through the link, then you just use Amazon normally.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you buy, uh, we get a small piece of for sending the traffic to Amazon uh through their affiliate program.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's how that works.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: And you guys can set one up too.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: You guys can set up your own Amazon store too, so that's cool.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: Then if you recommend certain products, you can get paid a commission whenever somebody buys without costing that person any more money.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: It's the same price.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: It just comes out of Amazon's end.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: So uh that is how you can bring value to the podcast.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for those that already have or uh or are still doing that.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: We love you.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_00: So um as I mentioned at the beginning, uh the speaking opportunity that I'm doing on podcasting at the Marketing Interrupt Virtual Summit.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: So look, it it uh technically it doesn't cost money.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Or it there's no ticket, okay?
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: You're not buying a ticket to the conference, let's say.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh however, to get access to the conference, you just have to make a$50 donation to Operation Underground Railroad and to No Kid Hungry.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_00: Not to each, but just uh the the$50 ticket to the conference, to the virtual summit, uh Take 25 bucks and give it to Operation Underground Railroad and another 25 bucks to No Kid Hungry.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_00: So the agent marketer is not making money off this thing.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_00: It's a giant charitable endeavor.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_00: And so every everyone who registers, the$50 donation that's required to register, goes directly to those two charities.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that's such an awesome model.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're familiar with ClickFunnels or with Russell Brunson, but uh a couple months ago I went down to a ClickFunnels event here in Utah at a comedy club, and that's how they did it.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that they were selling tickets.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_00: It's they said, hey, to get a ticket, you just have to make a donation to this charity.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: And it just happened to be Operation Underground Railroad, which is amazing.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: They're I think they are my favorite charity right now because of the important work they're doing with human trafficking and and you know, basically they're they're having to go in and buy children out of slavery, and that's why they need so much money.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's disgusting and evil on so many levels, but I I can't imagine a uh more necessary cause.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: So uh the way they set that event up, and and you guys can do this too in your local markets, if you have an event, um, instead of charging admission, um, even if you were going to do it for free, just say, hey, look, to get a ticket, make a donation to this charity, send us a screenshot, and you get a ticket, something like that.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_00: That's how they had it set up, and that's how marketing interrupt is set up as well.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: So go to marketinginterrupt.com, make your donation, get free access once you've made the donation to the four-day-long, excuse me, to the four-day-long marketing summit where you're gonna learn about YouTube, Facebook ads, podcasting, Instagram, voice marketing, like uh there's a bunch of different topics that are going to be incredible.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: So be there for that.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_00: That starts December 17th and goes through December 20th.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_00: And then finally, for the last four years or so, I had I learned how to run Facebook ads.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_00: And Facebook ads really changed my business in a positive way.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: I was, even though I was getting most of my leads organically, being able to effectively run Facebook ads to promote your the content that you do.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: Um Facebook ads are not just like a, you know, spend money, run ad, get lead type thing.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: It can be, absolutely.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_00: And there's very effective ways to do that, which can be very, very profitable.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, if you're a content marketer, you need to know how to effectively promote the content you've already done to get more people to see it and to get more shares and more comments and everything on it.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: If you're a content marketer, you have to know how to do Facebook ads.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not doing it for direct lead capture, even if it's just to promote your content to get more organic leads, awesome.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: You've got to know how to do it.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: I I learned how to do it by watching YouTube videos, by reading articles, and just by trying, trying shit out.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_00: Really.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_00: I spent I spent well over 10,000 bucks, you know, trying to learn how to do Facebook ads by myself.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I found some things that worked, and I've continued learning and continued learning.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_00: I've always searched for uh for a program that would um well let me back up.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_00: I've since become a Facebook ads coach, and I have clients that that I work with on a one-on-one basis, and so many of them are like, look, I I know how to run an ad.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_00: I just don't have a clue what to do.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know what ads work, I don't know what to do.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: If someone could just tell me what ads to run, I'll run it and then I'll get leads.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: And so I saw this need within our industry for agents and loan officers who just need help with what ads to run, what ads are gonna convert, what's gonna work.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: And so uh the first part of 2018, I started thinking about how I could step in and provide that.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_00: How could I build something that I am personally looking for myself?
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: And what I came up with is something I call the Massive Agent Society.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_00: The society is something where it's a program, it's a training and support program for Facebook ads marketing for agents and loan officers.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_00: And we have a database of Facebook ads that are proven to work, that have worked in a bunch of different markets for a bunch of our clients that you can log in when you're a member and you can copy and paste those ads.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: We tell you use this image, use this headline, use this audience, target these specific interests, all of that.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: Copy and paste it, run it yourself, get leads.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty much how it works.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: Then, because it's not always that simple, depending on the market you're in, sometimes you have to tweak these ads a little bit to get them to perform well in South Florida versus Maine versus Oregon, right?
1:10:48
SPEAKER_00: Because markets and demographics are different.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: And so what we did is we we have a members-only Facebook group where that's our coaching group.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: So whenever somebody has an ad that's underperforming, I personally and our other members, we get in there and we help teach them and troubleshoot and show them how to how to make little tweaks and when to make those little tweaks and how to edit an ad that isn't working, and how to duplicate ad sets and you know all this stuff.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: And so we train, because I want you guys to become Facebook ads experts.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_00: So when the market takes a dump, when the economy totally goes down, I want you to be able to control your own business.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_00: If you're relying on leads from from someone else, if you're relying on someone else to provide leads for you, you're in big trouble when the market really, really takes a dump.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_00: But if you can learn now how to control your inflow of leads, you're gonna be just fine.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I created the Massive Agent Society to help you become a successful Facebook ads slash lead generation machine.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get leads in the short term, but then you're gonna have this well-rounded knowledge of how to do it, uh, when to do it, how to make certain changes, what's all possible with Facebook ads, chat bots, messenger, like all this stuff.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna be able to do that.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_00: So we're not looking for members to stick with us for years.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: We want to teach you what you need to know so that you can get what you need out of the society and go off and and be totally self-sufficient.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_00: That's my goal.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: That's what I care about.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: Some people they can do that in a month, some people it takes 10 months.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: It just depends.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_00: Um we also to make it unique, because I told you I was looking for something that would uh that I personally would join.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_00: I was I built the platform, I built the program that I personally wanted, but didn't exist yet.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: And so I was thinking, how can I make this even better for our members?
1:12:44
SPEAKER_00: And and I thought, well, it would really suck if we had 20 agents within one city all running the same ads.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_00: That's not cool.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's not good for anybody.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_00: So I decided, even though it will uh negatively impact how many sales we get and how many members we get, it affects the bottom line for me and for our company.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_00: But I decided that we would only allow one agent per market, one agent or lender per market to join.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_00: And um that's worked really well uh because what it's created as well, aside from just knowing you're the only one running those ads, there's a built-in referral network.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_00: We have agents and loan officers all around the country now.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_00: And so when you're generating leads like crazy, you're gonna have someone who needs to move to a new city or is moving from a city and has to sell their house.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_00: So you have referrals to give, more so than any other group.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_00: So our group has a bunch of referrals to give.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: And naturally, if if I'm I'm in Salt Lake and then we have a member in Orlando, I go to that member in Orlando and say, hey, I have a lead for you.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: It's a built-in exclusive referral network where there's only one agent in each market that could even get that referral.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: So you get that as a benefit too by becoming a member.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_00: So to join the society, to find out if your market is even available to join, go to MassiveAgenceSociety.com and there's a up in the toolbar at the top, there's a link that says sold out or sold out markets.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_00: Go click that.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_00: If your market is is highlighted in red, it is unfortunately not available.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_00: Most markets are available.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we don't have we don't have 10,000 members.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_00: So most markets are available.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_00: Go check, and if it is, you can claim it.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_00: You can reserve it, you can join, you can become the only agent or lender in that market who is in the society running these proven ads and getting the coaching for me personally and from our other members.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_00: Um one other option too: a lot of you guys are doing um some co-marketing with a lender.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: So uh we've set it up to where to get the best price, to get the best discount, you can actually split the cost, or rather, you could join with a lender partner or lenders, you can join with a realtor partner.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get a discounted rate.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_00: You'll each have your own separate logins to stay RESPA compliant.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_00: And then you guys can be running these campaigns together.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you look at being RESPA compliant and that you're splitting 50-50.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we don't want any RESPA violations, but that's on you to make sure that you're compliant with.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_00: But that's how we have it set up.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: So if you want an even better deal and if you want to be doing these campaigns with a lender, we have special pricing to join with a lender or for lenders to join with an agent partner.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's all available at MassiveAgentSociety.com.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll check that out.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I put a lot of my heart and and soul into it, build trying to build what I wanted to join.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_00: And something that wasn't 2,000 bucks a month or 5,000 bucks a month, like some of these other Facebook ad coaching programs that are just absolutely out of control with their cost.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_00: If you're spending that kind of money, you're not gonna have any money left to run ads.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, like you have there's no margin for error in that case.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_00: There's no margin for profit.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like we've we've built one of the best programs in the real estate industry for agents and loan officers.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_00: It's very affordable.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of value compared with what you get for what it costs.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_00: So um, if you're if you haven't yet, if you're new to the show or you haven't yet, go check out MassiveAgen Society.com and consider joining and claiming your market.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_00: Guys, thank you so much for listening.
1:16:35
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: I hope to see you at one of my future speaking engagements, whether that's at Inman Connect in late January, Agent Agent 2021 in Miami on January 17th, or um some of the other conferences that I'll be speaking at on the first quarter that I can't exactly announce yet, but we're working on.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_00: Love to meet you guys in person, do some meetups in in these areas.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_00: So uh stay tuned for that.
1:17:02
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, guys.
1:17:03
SPEAKER_00: Have a great weekend.
1:17:04
SPEAKER_03: Go sell some of the people.