Latest / The Driven Athlete / Stop Chasing 1 MPH And Start Chasing Strikes w/ Prime Performance | Ep 123

Transcript

Stop Chasing 1 MPH And Start Chasing Strikes w/ Prime Performance | Ep 123 · The Driven Athlete

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a driven, active person who wants to reach and pursue a higher quality life with domain ambition, then guess what?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for you.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Driven Athlete Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, y'all?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's your man Dr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Kyle.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Driven Athlete Podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: We got a really cool guest with us, all right, Joe Clancy with Prime Performance.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming in on you guys are busy.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um thanks for coming in here, sharing some insights.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um tell us again what Prime Performance, where y'all are located, and then like what you guys do.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we are located in uh Port St.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lucie, right across the street from the Mets Stadium at uh 455 Northwest Enterprise Drive.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do, you know, personal baseball development.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's one-on-one.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You get a you do an assessment process with us, get assigned a coach based on your assessment process.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who do you think is gonna fit this athlete the best on what they need?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then from there, like it's pretty much just a constant battle of what do we need to get better?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: What are we gonna do to get better?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Re-evaluating those things if what we thought was gonna work doesn't work, like it's just it's just you know ever evolving because the body and the human human person itself is always changing.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like adaptations happen quickly, things come and go.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's just a constant revolution of just trying to attack attack things that people are bad at and make them better.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so how many coaches do y'all have on staff?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have four.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So each athlete would get one of y'all to be like, this person would be a great fit for you based on what they need, or this person good for the other person.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, I mean, that coach, you know, encompasses like everything that that athlete's gonna do.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So mobility, strength and additioning, correctives, throwing, drill, like it it just makes the communication a little bit easier.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, they don't have to think like, oh, well, if I have X problem, like which coach do I have to reach out to?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it gonna be my pitching coach?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna be my strength and conditioning coach?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you don't want somebody to have a hard time who they're supposed to reach out to.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but I would say like within us four, like there are things that one person does better than the other.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of it has to do with like either things that they're just interested in, so they've like delved a lot of research into it, or just things that they've dealt with themselves and their you know, pursuit to becoming an elite athlete.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So different insights from that, which I think is always the a really great place to start of just like previously doing it yourself, having similar injuries.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the relation, the credibility, and like the well just having a good, a good under background understanding of whatever their their issue is, you know.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's like uh something that's been interesting so far is you'll have athletes that struggle with things that you never struggled with, and it's like you know, you guys are kind of working together of like, hey, this is my first time trying to figure this out too.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So like let's go down this rabbit hole and work together.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you guys, so like when you do this through training, you do an assessment and then you do strength conditioning, correctives, mobility work, um, and then skill work, which would be bad at hitting and pitching.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Field work too.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I mean, we can do it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have like a ton of people who are looking to get better at shortstop their base right now.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like again, we we want to expand and be able to offer everything to everybody.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're also not gonna expand too soon because again, I pitched in college, so I'm not gonna put it out there that I can train you to get better at being a shortstop when you know I'd just probably undervalue like the training that you'd receive down the line.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to have people like that because obviously we want to cater to every athlete possible uh in the baseball world.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So your um the the programming, um, some days will be strength conditioning and some days will be pitching.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if that's structured in.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the way that it works is you typically are like trying to match the high intent throwing days with like really, really high intensity lifts.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like central nervous system is already super elevated for the day.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like we might as well just make it a high intent day rather than you know, if Monday they throw a bullpen, but then they don't lift, and then on Tuesday they have a really high intensity lift, like you're now taxing the body on two straight days rather than you know, matching lifting and throwing intensity, especially in season.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: In season's super important, like if you want to get lifts in because you don't want the guys to lose anything that you worked on over the offseason, but you also don't want to tax them for whenever their next outing, next start is.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, it's like finding a good blend of matching those.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, so it's it's from the CNS standpoint.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty much matching CNS strain.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how I like to look at it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially in season.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: In the offseason, you can get away with a little bit of like okay, early in the offseason, we're not throwing as much.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: We can kind of just lift when we need to lift.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like most guys are four days a week in the offseason, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, have some sort of like restorative just moving around on Wednesday, Saturday.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That way they're just not like standing stuff, you know, like what people call active recovery.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, stuff like that, like tackle maybe some smaller things that we're not being able to fit in the lifting block.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, in season, you're just trying to match like the output of the throwing.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, at the end of the day, like these guys aren't lifters, you know, they're baseball players.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Their job is to play baseball, get people out.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the most important part.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about your journey.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you from originally?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Northern Virginia.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Northern where at Northern Virginia?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Center.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, grew up in Centerville.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: My family uh moved out to Haymarket now.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: My wife's from uh Fairfax Station.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty close.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's 15, 15 minutes.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Funny, it's crazy.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you went, where'd you play in college?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I started off at uh Hartford Community College in Bel Air, Maryland.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So Northern Maryland.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just close to well, close-ish to home.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had some high school teammates and like buddies who went there.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: They were had a good track record.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there I went to eastern Kentucky.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it all.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was some of the best years of my life.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um ever each spot had a different story, like two completely different things.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, junior college was a wild, wild time, you know.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've heard some stories.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty relaxed from things that you're forced to do, but I think it was really, really good for me.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I never took baseball super seriously.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was always just good.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of a bigger kid, so I was just naturally good at it, naturally threw hard, naturally could hit the ball far.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, it kind of caught up in me in high school.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't necessarily think it was like, oh, everybody's just the same size as me now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was just I wasn't putting a lot of like time and attention into it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like football kind of took over my life at that point.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was just, you know, I played middle linebacker and tight end, so I was walking around 240, 245, which in high school, like it was so it was so far from a good 240, 245.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, playing trying to play baseball at 240, 245 was really, really hard.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just like, you know, I just didn't really move that well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then last season of football ended, and I told my parents, I was like, look, I don't want to play football in college, like, I want to play baseball.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Got with a pitching coach, got in just like better shape and like actually threw consistently for like a month and a half straight.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And up until that point, I probably was like a 83, 85 mile an hour arm.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then like early, early winter and like ear beginning of the season, like you know, I was like the 89, 92, touch of 93, and then I got hurt a little.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't really know what it was.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I slid into home plate during a high school game and hyperextended my elbow and kind of fiddled around with like the nerve and some of this stuff, but I didn't really think it was anything crazy.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in high school, you're not consistently getting radar'd, so I didn't know that I was throwing slower.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was still getting people out, so it wasn't a really big deal to me.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's kind of how I ended up in like the junior college atmosphere.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: But interesting.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think going to junior college for me was like, again, kind of like I said earlier, perfect because it allowed me time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: It also happened that like the first year I was in college was COVID.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it basically like the gap year.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it gave me time to like kind of have like a self-evaluation process of you know, I didn't didn't really work that hard and like didn't really take a whole lot of things super serious.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was doing what I was supposed to do, but there's a difference between doing something and like executing it how whoever's asking you to do it is supposed to be done.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it was really good for me.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was a learning process for me to just be like, you know, your career is in your hands.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can either do something about it or you can just do what needs to be done, which at the time, again, I wasn't really doing a whole lot.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, I think what we'll talk about here with injury history is that was also another thing that put that into perspective.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I told you, like hyper extended my elbow, had some pain with it, get to campus my freshman fall, and I couldn't throw a ball five feet without my elbow, like some sort of discomfort.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we went and got it imaged, and you know, there was bone spurring, and they weren't sure about how intact the ligament was.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they were like, Oh, we'll just go and take the burn spone spurs out.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I go and get that done, and the surgeon tells me he's like, if I could do it, we'd put you back under and you'd get Tommy John right now.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Your ligament is super thin.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever have any issues throwing after this, like you need to come back and see me immediately.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm like doing my rethrone return to throw program.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's going fine.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's sh I'm just throwing the ball.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing super crazy.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: We get sent home from school.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just throwing the ball.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: One day I'm pulling down in my driveway and it rained the day before, and I slipped, ended up tearing my meniscus in my knee.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it was the, you know, where they just clean it out.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just what was grabbing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, you know, four to six weeks.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like really a big setback, but it was something like, gosh, I can't believe I just did that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: You just slipped in the driveway.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just like kind of it was just wet on the ground and like my front foot planted and like slid a little and hyperextended as I was like turning over.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And just kind of I remember I woke up the next day and was doing 90-90s and it felt like somebody was stabbing me in my left knee.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I didn't really think anything of it.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, oh, it's okay, I can throw the ball while I'm sitting on the ground.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it not not really a big deal.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, came back from that elbow injury and the fall was fine uh playing baseball and like got off to a really, really good start in the spring, was in a really good position, and then blew out, had to go get TJ.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was a that was probably one of the more interesting, like Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: How long did when how much time did it blow out?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like so what was the time frame?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was like the second or third week into the spring season.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had thrown a lot, and again, we say spring, but in northern Maryland, like it's still freezing cold.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of it had to do with I threw a lot of innings in a very short period of time for somebody coming off of injury, and there was very like I was a bullpen guy, so obviously there's very little days in between of rest.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was freezing cold.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I also like during this time was like super concerned about how I looked visually.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like really like in my head about like you know, having a six pack, this, that, and the other.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that played a little bit into it too.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like outside of my you know, skeletal system, muscles, and tendons, like there wasn't really like any fat tissue, like anything to kind of protect my body.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was just essentially muscle, skin, and bones.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that played a huge role.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that like I'm a pretty big advocate of.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's like having a good body composition, but not like being too, too, I guess what you would call is ripped.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there's a benefit for athletes to have a little bit of something uh around the body.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so that was there the injuries were probably 12, 13 months apart.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then obviously with the knee kind of split right in the middle.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I get TJ.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: It actually took them a really long time to figure out what it was.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I got like my first MRI and they were like told me that it was fine.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I promise you, like I'm trying during this process, they'll make you throw to see if you can recreate the pain.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was recreating the pain anytime I tried to do anything with my right arm.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even if it was turning the keys in my ignition, my elbow would hurt, turning on the shower, turning a door handle, like there would be pain on the medial side.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I do that, go get another MRI, nothing.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, I called my pitching coach back home, and he just happened to uh train a kid whose dad and uncle are the orthos for the Oreoles.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So he got me in.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: He just looked at the MRI and I was like, I kind of believe you.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I don't think we need to do anything else.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're not quite sure what's happening.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you okay if we just cut you open and figure it out when we're in there?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was absolutely where do I sign?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know something's wrong.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So going into surgery, I didn't know if anything was gonna happen, if I was gonna get a full repair or partial repair.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I remember waking up my wrist being really, really sore.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, I know I got TJ because I took the tendon out of my wrist, put it in my elbow.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I go through that process.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this, if I had to tell anybody, like, if anybody were to say, is there one thing in your career that you would tell that you did that you want to make sure athletes don't do?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the way I went about rehabbing TJ.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, at this point, my first year in college got canceled.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then my second year, I only pitched, I think it was 10 innings before I blew out.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was again like the first month.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in my mind, I was really, really worried about being able to move on to the next step.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how was I going to get to the next school?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I for some reason came up with, and I wish I would have just talked to somebody, but I, you know, I was 20.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I had it all figured out.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I needed a full season under my belt, but because it kind of took a little bit to get the imaging and the surgery done, I think the timeline at it was like eight and a half months until the start of our season.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked my surgeon, I said, you know, they have built-in, uh, well, in your first week of throwing, you're supposed to take four days in between uh all the throwing sessions.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that, it's three days for two weeks, and then it's, you know, you go two days of rest in between for the rest of the throwing program.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're supposed to complete every step twice.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I asked him, I was like, hey, this is what I want to do.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is my timeline.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't have any setbacks, I don't have any pain, I don't have any issues.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be completely honest with you.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I do, can I go through it just every other day?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one step completed once.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, I don't see why not.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I did.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really have any issues going through it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Everything went fine.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I truly had no setbacks, no road bumps.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it didn't take me, all my throwing went fine.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Got back to the season.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing that was a little off in the beginning was command.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that was again, there was a lot of compensation going on, trying to protect and guard what was going on.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: But as the season went on, like my body really, really started to deteriorate.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like my arm always hurt.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: The throw looked way different, it felt way different.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was throwing a lot slower.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So in the long run, like it was a terrible thing for me.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we had a good year.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually a great year.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: We went to the junior college world series that year, probably like the most memorable season of sports I'll ever have in my life.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like just a great group of guys, had a lot of fun.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So go to Eastern Kentucky the following year, and same thing.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, had a good fall, coming back from winter break, doing really, really good.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then in like a preseason bullpen, I just threw a pitch and completely lost feeling in my arm.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just went, it was like it was zapped.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, this is weird.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to do.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And didn't really say anything.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I like kind of figured it out.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would come and go.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the mornings, it was really bad.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd wake up and my arm would be completely dead.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd have no control over it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like slowly it would start to come back.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Had an okay start to the season.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember had like a two string of outings where it was just really, really bad, which ended up being a good thing for me because I kind of I think it was three weeks until I pitched again.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of gave me three weeks to get my feet under myself and be like, okay, what's going on with my arm?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to change so that I can tackle this?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I pitched the rest of the year with it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And throughout the year, like we were going and getting doctor's appointments to get imaging, get things done, kind of figure out what was going on for a while.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were really, really afraid it was thoracic outlet syndrome.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: All it ended up being was again, leading back to the Tommy John, just not being smart during that rehab process, had built up a ton of scar tissue in like the medial side of my bicep.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it was just completely compressing on the nerve.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: So then that summer I had to get the uh incision completely recut open.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: They went into my bicep, had to clean out all the scar tissue, had to get my hand cut open too.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's called the Gion's canal, had to get that scar tissue removed out of there.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they put everything under the muscle.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was probably the hardest one to come back from just because of how much stuff they cut through.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my bicep was bruised for three, four months.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just such a deep thing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, it was really weird.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was the scariest one because they were very open that hey, like the feeling might not come back.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you kind of went on this for a long time.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I went back in for my two-week and they got the little like essentially fish rod that they're poking your fingers with, and you gotta close your eyes and turn away.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like the most nervous I'd ever been in my life.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna be able to feel this?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, everything's fine.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my pinky still kind of sits like a little weird and I kind of hurts to lay on my right side for an extended period of time.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it's working.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what how did you end your career playing baseball?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just I finished my last year, and in my mind, it was the worst year.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, statistically speaking, from an earned run standpoint, it was the worst year I had in my baseball career, but kind of different role.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd always been like a closer, uh, high-leverage guy.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then that year I still threw out of the bullpen, but you know, we were kind of thin on the pitching side.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: We had had an unfortunate string of injuries.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I had to like pitch a lot more consecutive innings and outings, which I wasn't really used to, and it didn't really fit the way that I pitched very well to like for me to be conducive to just have the same stats.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I was completely done.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had taken a job in accounting.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I moved back home with my parents.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to work in Washington, DC, and I just thought my baseball career was over.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like I didn't have any, you know, bad feeling about it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I gave it everything that I had, like I did everything I could.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was super, super serious about what I was doing.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like I was okay with moving on, starting life.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I remember I got a call like on the last day of the draft asking if I wanted to be an unsigned free agent.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just super honest.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, look, I'm gonna be honest with you, like I thought my baseball career was over, I haven't touched a baseball in two months.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like, all right, we appreciate you being honest.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: They moved on and signed somebody else.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, it was a super weird process.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I have I have no hard feelings about it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think I ever would have been a big leaguer.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the day, like I don't feel bad for like taking that opportunity again because and I feel confident in saying that because like I mean, I exhausted every road possible when I was playing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: There was no no stone left unturned.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I tried everything, I was super open, I was super serious.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, then uh had to go back and get my master's for the job that I was currently working, and I went back to school.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was accounting finance?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, no uh accounting, federal audit.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I went.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I could think of anything the absolute opposite that I'd want to do, it'd probably be accounting.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably federal accounting.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and something like that would be.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a phenomenal change of pace.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been awesome.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I went back to get my MBA and get ready to take the CPA.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was like, you know what?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I gotta go back to school, like I might as well go back to where I finished my undergrad and help out with the baseball team.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back, graduate assistant, did a lot of player development stuff, and it would come early January.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, Ty and I grew up together.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he reached out to me about this opportunity, and I was like, once the season's over, I'm there.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was super, super fast leaked to leave the previous job.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I bet I like it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So now you're and then here you are now.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when was that?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that last year, two years ago?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was last year.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: At this time last year, I would have, you know, been on the road going somewhere for a midweek game.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Happens fast.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh but awesome, you know.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now you guys are in a sick facility.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I tell people, like being legit, like honest, like it, I think it's the best facility I've ever seen in my life.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like of like training and equipment and like setup, and like it's sick.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we are trying to break it's a cool place.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: We are trying to offer the best for everybody because again, I think at some point in all of our careers, like we wish that we could have maybe just had more.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you got the ability to offer it, and you know, I think something that we stand on is every athlete we have, we want them to have a better and longer career than us.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting, like super similar, where it's like from a lens of like rehab, you know, pain and returning people back to play, where it's like, I w we wish wish I would have had someone like that in my corner as a resource to just get back, you know, like to be able to what's going on, why?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do I get it better, and then how to for benefit from coming back?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's the best case scenario?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, best recipe for me to stay, like playing on the field or the court, whatever.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's crazy.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome though.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whoa, here you know, South Florida, here we are.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, cool.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I all I'm gonna ask the world baseball classics going on right now, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are you surprised that Paul Skeens and um Scooba are are actually playing?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honestly more surprised that Scoobul opted out after his first start.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, they're sitting in the same place, they they put the same pitch limits on them that they do in their exhibition games and spring training.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like there's a different demand.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think again, at the end of the day, the teams are the ones who are paying them, and those are the ones who are they play for, especially with Scoobyl.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he just signed a big con new contract with them.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I I get that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're surprised they're actually playing in the in the world baseball classic?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think I think it's really cool.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one of the coolest sporting events.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the three every three years, you know, it's not always guaranteed if a team isn't gonna make it or not.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the big thing is, you know, the Czech Republic, and they're like, oh, they're all electricians.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I think it's cool to see like those people compete against, you know, the Shoheo Tanis of the world and the Yamamotos and all the and the Sasakis, like all those guys.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think it's really Interesting to see just, you know, like how much love and and care these people have for like where they come from.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's super interesting.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's also one of those things that, you know, it's kind of cool to see where some of these guys like are from.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like a Rosarena is a Cuba guy, but he's got citizenship in Mexico, so he plays for the Mexican team.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't remember what story it was, but it came out not too long, like right before the WBC, that he was begging to get citizenship in Mexico.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Look, if you give it to me, I'll play for the team.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like I think it was two days later he got granted.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think it's interesting.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would have had no clue that Seth Lugo was, you know, Puerto Rican.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, he plays there.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I definitely think from a pitcher standpoint, they're a little bit more cautious when it comes to the WBC.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: It seems to be for Team USA.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are always the one where if you look at like the USA roster, like they'll have the litany of you know, the Aaron Judges, the Bobby Wits, the Roman Anthony's, but then sometimes the pitching staff can get kind of wonky.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, you know, you don't ever want to do too much too early.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing any of these guys want is the environment naturally makes them throw harder than maybe what their body's prepared for.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it either leads to them getting hurt or you know, not playing well later in the year.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, of course.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there are a lot of pros and cons are probably weighing and then chatting with their agents and their team and a lot of facets to the decision.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, another thing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, it's pretty cool.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing is money.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like when uh Edwin Diaz tore his ACL, uh, I think it was either last world baseball classic or two world baseball classics ago.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the MLB had to pay his salary because that's like the whole insurance thing.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes like if the MLB doesn't approve the insurance policy for players, like that's why the Mets wouldn't let Lindor go this year because they didn't approve it because there was something with his physical that so that again that's kind of where the money thing ties into it too.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um what makes Paul Skeen so good in Scoobyl?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like what separates like really good put pitcher, you know, like that that's performing really well versus somebody who is in the bigs but then goes down to triple A, back up again, you know.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh obviously it's consistency, like everybody can string a good start together or like a good couple outings out of the bullpen, but obviously your elite guys are doing it every time.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now they don't have perfect starts every time, right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: But they're all really good at limiting damage.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: They may have a blow-up inning, but their blow-up inning is three runs, and then they're gonna back it with two or three more zeros.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they can get out of trouble.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: They can get out of trouble, and they it they just seem so calm and collected.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big thing, it's and it's documented with Skeens, is he's so routine based.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's it seems like he's been doing the same warm-up and everything since he got with uh Wes Johnson when he was at LSU.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And like it seems to be like that's his thing, that's his bread and butter.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so those guys are just uber consistent like with what they eat when they wake up, when they show up to the field, when they start their warm up, the sequence that they do things, because you know it works for them.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So they consistently do.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a conversation we have with our athletes a lot is you can have a sense of confidence in your by being prepared.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a bad outing, then you know, chalk it up to the game of baseball.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Keep working on what we're working on because we know it's the right things.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if it consistently happens, like your constituent, then it's time to make a change.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: But but control the control balls, and if it helps with just confidence and the routine of the routine to help establish a confidence and expectations and familiarity.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I that's my understanding too.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because I don't think you know, every athlete doesn't have success immediately, so you got to find confidence somewhere.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't had success before, then you can't roll out there and be like, oh, well, I've been good.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can't base it off anything.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta be, you gotta tell yourself, like, hey, I did all everything I was supposed to do, I put in all the work, I'm as prepared as I could be for this situation.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why shouldn't I be confident?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something a lot of kids struggle with.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do you uh oh I was gonna say, I think I've always thought if there's like the talents that is there, that like they have the velocity, they have the arsenal of pitches that they can throw well, and then that they the command, which we'll also ask in a minute on your opinion on that.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if they have that stuff, but they're still not like performing at a high level, it's gotta be the mental component, the confidence, the um the to be able to stay calm, cool, composed, and with composure, you know, in difficult situations, and then be able to get yourself out of trouble with the confidence, like it has to be the mental game.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think baseball, I think that's what kills baseball players, like the ones who are able to stay in it for a long time or the ones who can control their mental.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell people, and this is how I looked at it, like you have to look at it as a numbers game.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: On the hitting side, you know, you're gonna be wrong.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're elite, you're gonna be wrong seven out of 10 times.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can be okay with that and you can stay within yourself, because again, it's not gonna be like every game you go one for three, you're gonna have a stretch where you go 16 for 20, and then you're gonna have a stretch where you go one for 20, and then it's gonna even out to around like you know, the batting average.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you can stay calm during the one for 20 and stay in a normal state when you're like at a high, those are the guys who are able to do it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you look at the pitching side, like every time I went out there, I was like, if I'm bad, I'm still gonna be right 70% of the time.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I have a 300 opponent batting average, that would be considered bad for a pitcher.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still right 70% of the time.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: So why shouldn't I feel like I'm gonna go succeed?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if anytime I had a bad outing, I would always tell myself, like, hey, this was the 18%.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like if my opponent batting average was 180 for the year, but hey, this was the this was the 18th.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: This was the one, yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like this, this was the one that was I was due for this, whatever.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna change it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can't control it anyway at this point.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna change what I was doing before.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna change what I was doing after.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna keep keep juggling along.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something that helped me a bunch is I never panicked.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's also say it's huge.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like not getting too high with great times and then not getting too low with low times, which is what cause panic and then just um not the right emotional strategies, you know.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: When when I was younger, I would ride the highs, but I would ride the highs in a bad way.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would, I would stop doing what I was supposed to do.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'd stop waking up, I'd stop waking up when I was supposed to do, I'd stop eating what I was supposed to, you know what I mean?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd be like, oh, I can't be touched right now.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why should I be worried about the little things?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something that came as I got older.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, don't change.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Good or bad, just be the same person.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've always I've something I heard recently, like within a couple years ago, and I was like, oh, I wish I would have known this stuff, you know, or this kind of thought.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like when you're doing really good, like now's the time to double down on like locking in routine and being dialed in versus like I'm good, man, I'm chilling, you know.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to work on anything, or I can let things be lax.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for all right, for elite pitchers like Paul Skeens and Terek Scobel, what what do they need in their arsenal?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the baseline?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do they need?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because the consistency, you have to be able to perform that consistently for sure.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what do they need in their in their arsenal?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody's different.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that I look at pitch design is I think it it's all gonna everything will should be based around your fastball.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your natural fastball profile gonna do?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, some guys naturally like really carry the ball.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those are your elite ride heaters, the ones that just kind of fight gravity and seem like a rise ball.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, consistently are above the barrel.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have guys who are like what you would consider a flat fastball, like a 10 when you look at it on the track, man, it's like 10 vert, 10 horizontal.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the ones that the hitters come back and like, oh, the ball looks fat.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, or if he's the guy throwing 100, it's like, oh, well, it doesn't really look that hard, even though he's throwing hard.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're gonna have your guys who are like natural sinker guys.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the first thing to do is like look at fastball shape and then what's gonna pair off of that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your carry, your ride, your riser heater guys are normally gonna tend to throw like a tighter breaking ball, like whether it be a gyro slider or cutter, like something that visually looks more like the heater for longer.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's again, and it doesn't have to be a crazy big moving pitch, like is something we talk about all the time.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Only job is to miss a barrel.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: The barrel's only two and five eighths in diameter.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's cool to watch the pitches break, you know, 20 inches from right to left or left to right or you know, straight down, but the bat's not that big, you know, you don't have to miss too much.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So again, like they kind of tend to have like a gyro gyro ball.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's harder, sharper, it looks like a fastball for longer.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the hardest thing normally with those guys who carry the fastball well is having good changeups is because of where their hand is at like ball release.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're typically like behind and a little under it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really hard for them to like kill and kick an axis down to where they can get good depth on the changeup, which is why like a lot of those guys are starting to just add cutters as a third pitch.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fastball cutter slider, just so they have another offering that's doing something different than the two to kind of keep people off balance.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, honestly, the guys who kind of have dead forcing fastballs tend to be able to throw like the largest arsenal because those guys also, if you give them a good sinker grip, they normally can sink it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then they can throw cutters, they can throw sweepers, they can throw a gyro if they wanted to, they can throw, you know, your traditional curveball or what we call a death ball, which is like it's along that zero line from like a horizontal movement standpoint.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just straight down.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit different than like that traditional like 12-6.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a little less movement, it's a lot harder.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, those guys tend to just have more variability with their arsenal because they're so neutral.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, your sinker ball guys, those are guys you're gonna try to be east-west.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So like they're gonna have the bigger breaking balls that are moving in the opposite direction.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're normally gonna blend something in between, like whether it be a cutter or a slider, like kind of a bridge, something that's moving the same direction as the breaking ball, but it's a little bit harder, a little bit smaller, keep people off pace.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think something that sinker guys sometimes will struggle with is the changeup will be so similar to the sinker, and they'll kind of throw it harder because of like their hands are already naturally at that spot.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it'll be a similar trajectory.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like there, we had a kid come in who's in college, and you know, he's a sinker slider guy.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: He just added a cutter and he's throwing his change up, and it's I mean, basically the same movement profile, and it's only it was only like four miles an hour slower than his fastball.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, hey, like what what do you have on that?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, it doesn't get hit hard, but it seems to always get put in play.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, well, I we see like sometimes that's something that they'll disparity in velocity isn't enough.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are you looking for?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like 12 miles an hour, 10?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I'm not so worried about a velocity, more so movement disparity.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if a guy could throw a fastball at you know, positive 20 vert, and then he can throw a change up at zero and it's only two miles an hour slower, like why not?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that that's a 20-inch difference.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's plenty.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: 20-inch vert, you mean like the vertical change?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the like vertical difference between the two pitches.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at uh Johan Duran, he's with the Phillies now.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he throws 103 mile an hour sinker, but he also throws a 98 mile an hour change up.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a huge dip difference in the movement of the pitches.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, so why not throw it 98?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: So would that be like a split finger fastball?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I think it's called, it's gotten, you know, its name as a splinker or a splange, like a split sinker or like a split changeup.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, a splane.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what awesome.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what Skeens, you know, added that has really turned him into who he is.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like he added that splinker, and it's just it's not quite a changeup, but it has more depth than a sinker.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: But he's able to throw it so hard that you know it it makes the fastball play really well.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to you have to wait to see everything deep.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, he's added the change up.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he's got I think his arsenal, he just has so many weapons, and the splinker is elite.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's no telling that, but you know, everything else, if you look at it like grade-wise, you know, they're it's not eye-popping, but he's extremely consistent, he throws everything hard, and he goes and competes and he's in the zone.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um the uh that's funny, the splinker and the splange.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that makes sense.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then talk about command.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I it's it is the most important thing in baseball.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I it I believe so.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, yeah, if you can put the ball where you want, but it's 82, you might not play for a really long time.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: But where you're playing, like you're probably getting outs.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a kid in high school probably who throws 82 but fills up the zone, and he's probably has better stats than the kid on his team that might be committed to a D1 school that kind of sprays it and can only land the heater for a strike because everybody's sitting on the fastball.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're just gonna take their walks when they get their walks.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Some people go back and forth, like whether it's you just have it or whether it's trainable.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a trainable thing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you watch guys who typically have bad command, they're just like super lazy in their catch play and they're not really caring about what they're doing, like they're just mindlessly throwing the ball.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can kind of work with those guys of like, hey, it should be like a little bit more intentional because all it is is just you know the body being able to pick up what it needs to do, where it needs to go.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your body knows that it needs to go towards home plate.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just how can we train you to be able to do that as close to repeatable as possible?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's always going to be some disparity in the movement and what you're doing.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the command would be just to explain some people, no, my understanding is like be able to throw the ball where you want it, when you want, with the pitch that you're trying to throw.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and again, a lot of it comes from like a feel thing.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was always super visual.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: So my first year at EKU, our pitching coach, first day, we have a team meeting, and he's like, You guys are all gonna throw the ball down the middle.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: He came from, I think, double A with the Phillies that year.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, We did something with them where it was we tracked all of our pitchers' average misses.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, our two best pitchers in the organization with the two smallest misses are Aaron Nolan and Zach Wheeler.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, their average miss is six inches.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, So if their average miss is six inches, what do you think yours is?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, so if I tell you to throw a fastball in the outer third, majority of the time, you're either gonna yank it or you're gonna throw it right down the middle.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, so if I try to make you just throw it down the middle and you throw a thousand pitches this year, you might throw 10 to 15 down the middle.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the other ones will just be well-executed pitches.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's a little tough on catchers, um, but it's definitely something that works.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I think a lot of it is feel and it comes from practice.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll have an athlete, I had an athlete first start of the year, it was a good start, but he was like, you know, like I didn't strike as many people out as I wanted.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like my two strike pitches were just like too over the plate, like they were too good, they were too hittable.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, I mean, let's think about it.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how much have we worked on that that offseason?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like throwing two strike pitches.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, not a whole lot.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, so next bullpen, like every pitch you throw, think of it as an O2 count.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to throw a slider just below the zone and you throw one and it hangs middle middle, throw another one and try to start it in a different spot.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you're gonna pick up, like, okay, in game, oh two, I want to throw a slider right below the zone.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know in my bullpen when I was trying to start it at the catcher's knee, it went exactly where I wanted.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something that people miss is you know, they know what they want to do, but there's no process to get there.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew if I missed a pitch high, like I would just tell myself, like, hey, keep it on the fingers a little bit longer.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was my thing.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if I wanted to go low in the zone, I was telling myself, hey, keep the ball on my fingers just a little bit longer.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are things that, again, you play around with in catch play and in bullpins that then help you to have a process to actually execute pitches in game rather than like, oh, my coach wants me to throw a curveball in the dirt here.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna pick my leg up and try to throw a curveball in the dirt.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't work that way, sadly enough.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think something you said there um rarely resonates where it's what I found with coaches, if it's golf coaches, baseball coaches, pitching coaches, whatever, is just little cues that ref that change a little bit of the physical action where it's like keep the ball in the fingers a little bit longer, right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like oh I just whatever resonates um for that particular athlete, you know, um, or the person that you work with, you know.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the key is having a coach that can have that like awareness and um thought of like this might not click with them.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: What would click?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I'm trying to get you to do is do this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: What if you did this instead?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, get the ball on your finger's tips a little bit longer, right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or whatever.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's huge.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the the craziest part is again, like something will work for a guy and you'll go try it with your next athlete, and it's just like total miss.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we wanted.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so again, it's a lot of playing around, and then it's also anyway.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love doing that stuff.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what what what clicks with you?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: What vocabulary and just little saying though clicks with you, it resonates.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you can just play around.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, I think the mind and subconscious mind has a lot to do with it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I have a kid right now who his whole life he's never struggled, like performance, throwing strikes, XYZ.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he's had a rough start to the year.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we just started working a couple weeks ago, and I was like, Hey, when you're missing, like, where are you missing?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I'm high in arm side.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I keep hitting righties, you know, XYZ.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm he's standing on the first base side of the mound.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what would be like closer to left-handed batter's box?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why don't we bump you over to the third base side?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, why are you moving me closer to where I'm missing?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Your body's naturally gonna self-align that if you're already going that way and missing that way, it's not going to one-two.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like you're gonna come set and look at the mound and see that there's a slope falling off, and your body's gonna be like, Well, can't go that way.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna start to work you the direction that we need to go to.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes you can kind of like pigeonhole guys into well, how do you respond to that?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually, he was supposed to start today, but he got sick.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really, I was really looking forward to seeing if it was gonna work in game.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love those moments too where they're like they like do whatever they're trying to do and they're like, that worked.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that moment, you know, they look at us like I told you, yeah, let's go.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it it's it's a it's the hot topic in uh baseball development now.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they call them constraints.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think people kind of have like a misunderstanding and misuse of them.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like they look at them as uh like a training tool, like, oh, well, you know, like let's just only throw from our knees today.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that I look at it is like you have to get them to buy into the reason why we're doing this is because you are practicing a movement pattern right now that is not good for you, and we need to find one for you that is going to generate the results that we want, and this is how we have to do it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And until you get them to fully buy in, they're never gonna create any changes because failure is what creates changes.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they're oh well, I'll throw my knees a couple of throws, then let's get up and play catch how I want to.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then nothing's gonna change.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a guy that uh podcast that I watch talked about, and I uh I'll probably butcher the name, but it was a hockey player, so I'm not even gonna try to say the name.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was a hockey player, but he grew up with only one stick.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so he had to learn how to protect his stick.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's way different than just having somebody who has 30 hockey sticks and saying, Hey, protect your stick, because he knows at the end of the day that if he doesn't and it breaks, he can go get one of his 30 sticks compared to the guy who has no other option.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you try to put them into the environment that is going to produce the change that you want where they have no other option.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the thing that people they look at them and they're just like, Oh, we'll try this like a couple times and then we'll move on.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they don't really buy into it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a this is this is the true solution to the movement that we're trying to fix.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: They um, yeah, they're not really, they're just not bought in.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: They just, yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: The uh do you have that a lot with so I mean I imagine the guy that got the results pretty quickly, he was like, I'm bought in, I'm bought in right away.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's probably one of the more frustrating things is to an extent, and I'm again, I'm sure you deal with the exact same thing in the PT realm of that you can do all that you want.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could put together the greatest program of all time, but if when the person's not here, they're not doing it.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or again, like we kind of talked about earlier, there's a difference between like checking boxes on what you're supposed to do for the day, yeah, and like really being intentful with what you're being asked to do.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes like every athlete isn't the same.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: So not every athlete's, you know, there are some athletes, and again, I think it kind of caters a lot to what they think they need.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like they a kid might be able to touch his, you know, fingers to the ground and be like, okay, so that means I'm mobile.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: But they might be like a two by four up top, but in their mind they they don't think that that matters.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not being super attentive to like the mobility and correctives you're asking them to do.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they miss some stuff like that.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's pretty apparent sometimes.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: But a hundred percent.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: You may ask a kid to do something and it works immediately.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they're bought in, but then you ask kid to do something and like maybe they don't see a change immediately.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then you like really have to harp and hone in, like, hey, this is the right thing.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I promise you this is the right thing, but you have to keep doing it.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: And again, sometimes it's hard.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I like I've been there and I'm sure you've been there where somebody asks you to do something and it may not feel right, it may not look right, and it may not immediately do what you want it to.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So then you kind of have to have like this internal battle of like, well, should I do it?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just an eye roll comes with it, you know, for the teenagers for sure.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or somebody who thinks they're really good, you know, that's the worst.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you were talking about velocity a little bit ago.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: What what's expected now?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like what for like, hey, you got a young kid who's a sophomore junior in high school, gonna get some D1 looks.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I have a sophomore right now who goes to he's in South Florida kid, and he should be a freshman, and he's you know, 89, 91.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's becoming more and more apparent.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I still think it's if you throw 90 miles an hour, like you can go play Division I baseball, you just are probably gonna have to be able to do something else too.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you go watch mid-majors play, like they're gonna have guys throwing 87, 88, 89, 90.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, again, like we talked about, they probably got pretty good command, they're probably in zone consistently, they have you know, we one or two other pitches that they can also throw for strikes.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't just throw 98 miles an hour and that's the only thing you do and go beat.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it also like if you throw it like if you throw if you're gonna throw 80 pitches and you hit it three times.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also not good.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Completely different.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah I still think you can go where most guys want to go at 90 miles an hour.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna have to offer something else.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what would that be?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: All the other stuff the splinker, the splane yeah having again having one or two quality pitches that you can throw for strikes and again throwing strikes.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know also like they want you to be a good teammate.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: They want you to be good culture they want you to be a good person because that does mean a lot.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um some people that they overlook it but you know you want to have good guys in the locker room.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah totally um all right so 90 gets you some looks what would be like raising some eyebrows like this guy's got some stuff for velocity.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're consistently three plus like if you're consistently 93 plus from and this also is like looking at you know if you were to take an average release height like if you're from like the average slot like a three quarter low three quarter three plus now if you're throwing from down here you can obviously throw a little bit slower because it's a completely different look.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some variable to that you know everybody likes to talk about like oh well if you're a lefty you can throw slower.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's because there's not as many lefties and every organization needs lefties to face lefties.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they get a little bit more opportunity.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: So think about like Randy Johnson then who threw like upper 90s from in the 90s what else that slot at like a low angle that slot.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there's a reason why he was punching out 300 people like every single year for five years straight.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know he was super far ahead of his time.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually a debate we have all the time of you know what players could still play and oh well did they really throw this hard blah blah blah blah um again I think they were just who's in the mix of that quote the questioning of that conversation.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody always like you know wants to talk about well did Nolan Ryan really throw as hard as Nolan Ryan thinks he did and we I had an argument with an athlete he was like well they did a radar gun thing and they equated you know this was back when the radar gun read it when the catcher caught it not at ball release and it was a hundred so that means they did the some scientists went back and looked at the time the date the weather the moon gravity and he said based off his calculations it was 109.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Come on and I told him I was like Nolan Ryan 109 I was like I just want to let you know that there's a reason why all you know majority of world record holders are current athletes because that's evolution I was like so if Nolan Ryan threw 109 somebody would have thrown 110.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody has yet do I think he probably touched a hundred a couple times in his career absolutely the guy threw hard he's probably consistently 95 98 but in that argument I was like so you're gonna trust the radar technology back then like all the things that we've evolved into now you're gonna confirm that that radar like we get misreads on our radar guns now.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're gonna tell me that that one was perfect.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um but yeah I 100% think he could Randy Johnson 100% could Pedro Martinez you know Roger Clemens those guys could definitely still pitch in the big leagues today.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: What Greg Maddox I don't know I really don't if you go watch a lot of great because if you the easiest comparison for Greg Maddox is Kyle Hendrix.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're both guys who are you know upper 80s low 90s and Kyle Hendrix has elite command just like Greg Maddox and he also had a lot of really good years.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: As he's gotten older it's kind of fizzled out he's getting hit more but so yeah there's part of me that goes back and forth on Greg Maddox.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: The only reason why I'm a little like maybe not is because if you go watch some of his stuff like the strike calls he gets are unbelievable.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like the umpire behind the plate is like oh my gosh Greg Maddox is pitching and he's just back there calling everything a strike.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know the famous backdoor two scene that moves like 23 inches the ball's two feet off the plate and the guy's calling him out um but yeah I I just they could probably still play I don't think they'd be as dominant just because they're seeing it more like they're seeing a hundred more they're seeing 95 plus more they're seeing gross breaking balls and really good changeups and all this stuff.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's consistently seen more I think that's why people strike out more.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because oh they're just only trying to hit home runs or strike out.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no the guys who are pitching are doing unbelievable things.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's everything is thrown so hard everything moves so much that it's you know it's kind of almost getting cornered into one or two outcomes are possible because of how hard it is to do it.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I don't think it's that that the hitters are worse and that they're only trying to hit home runs.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just think pitching right now is so elite that it it's hard to not strike out.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's crazy think about like where does that go from there?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like imagine 10 years from now.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because guys are training more specifically and we said like evolution I totally agree.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's it's the technology the studying the information that's available the technology nutrition training app uh modalities and and programming stuff like that things we've learned to amplify and create the higher ceiling of the human potential so I think the base the hitting side starts to catch up a little not like to where it's going to be like the juice ball era but you should bring that back you know we we don't have to get started on that there's no reason why Barry Bond shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know he never got he never failed a drug test all that it's all allegations and they were asking guys to take steroids back then because they wanted people to watch baseball you still have to hit it.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to hit the ball you still have to hit the ball there are plenty of people who've gotten pot for PED since then that aren't Barry Bonds like they're to the level of player of Barry Bonds.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think hitting catches up at some point maybe not like a ridiculous clip.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: But again like you said the technology is starting to come into it like I think it's this company called Traject they're making now it's like a$250,000 pitching machine something crazy but it's this big LED panel screen and you can load players in and throw the exact pitches they throw and not only are you throwing the exact pitches they throw like you're timing it up with their delivery.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're watching the delivery so again the reason why the reason why I think like you know Clemens and all those guys might get might have gotten be less dominant now is it's more common.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So now these guys these hitters are just going to be able to see what they're facing more.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the more reps you have at something the better you are yeah you're more familiar with it totally people who aren't in the NL who don't face Paul schemes a lot like when he goes and faces the AL team they might only see him once or twice a year.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna struggle because they never see him.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's the NL teams who have a little bit more success because you know they're playing him more often.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they see him more often like that just makes sense.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those type of pitching machines and like training tools that are allowing hitters to take direct data like this is literally what this pitcher's pitch is doing and I can just get a hundred two hundred three hundred not even swings just like visual reps.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: It they'll catch up a little bit but I'm sure somebody will come out with something on the pitching side that's just you know the uh and the pitching machine will match the RPM everything the arm angle it is the exact same thing like the slot like auto moves and that again the pitcher will pop up on the screen they'll be there they'll go through the delivery they're all the arm will swing and then boop the ball will pop out and it'll move same yeah same RPM same horizontal movement same vertical movement same release height same release angle everything will be the same that's really I think the only thing that I think they're not gonna be able to tackle is extension.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you know that's different based on pictures like obviously the mound is 60 feet six inches away oh like if they're but some guys release the ball you know three inches closer to the plate than other guys I think that's the only thing they're not gonna be able to tackle is extension just because I don't again I've never seen the machine in person I've just seen videos of it I'm not sure if it moves forward at all I think that's gonna be the only thing that might be different.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who's your favorite player pulse gains I'm a pirate I'm a oh all time Barry Bonds.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Pirates fan so again anything anytime somebody says anything about Barry Bonds and steroids I'm like he was a 40-40 guy with the Pirates when he was a skinny little kid you know what I mean it's true um so so and then so Barry Bonds is your favorite yeah who's number two of all time like who's up there Mike Trout I loved watching Mike Trout play I think without injury like Mike Trout would probably be looked at as you know a top five maybe even top three baseball player of all time of all time I don't disagree with you.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's just such an elite guy did everything so well um injuries who would you put in the top one top five baseball best play players who ever lived ever lived again somebody who is a little bit older that watches probably mad at me but um Barry Bonds I think I I you have to put Randy Johnson in there.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: No pitcher's ever done what he did again even though we kind of you know he played a little bit into the 2000s so I'll give it to him Barry Bonds Randy Johnson this is in no specific order other than bonds one like he's undoubtedly the best baseball player ever.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Barry Bonds Randy Johnson I put Mike Trout in there I think you have to put Shohei in there.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: There are people out there who disagree with it because you know he hasn't been like super healthy and consistent as a pitcher but even just as a hitter it's it's extremely impressive.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and again like if this guy could stay healthy I think Jacob deGrom would have been one of the greatest pitchers to ever do like his stretch in New York was was unbelievable when he won you know back to back Cy Young's like there was there was nobody who could hit him.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: What about like Cal Rickman Jr.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Again I didn't really watch baseball like when those guys were playing so it's a little off um I gotcha but yeah I think you know great baseball player again Bryce Harbour you know iffy he's good but I best of all time no he's not he's not in the top five there are other people that are doing it um soto he's a great baseball player I don't know if again he kind of I kind of go back and forth on him like I there's no defense.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now again somebody's gonna be like oh well Barry Bonds was a glorified DH but okay well he's the greatest hitter to ever grace planet earth so that's completely different I don't think Juan Soto's Barry Bonds Judge great baseball player I didn't think it was going to last you know I've he came out and it was all super popular with like the teacher man swing and all this stuff and at the beginning I think I was like everybody else I was like what is this?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: This makes no sense there's no way this keeps going but man he is consistent.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of my best friends is a Red Sox fan so if you ask him about it he's gonna tell you he likes to call him Mr.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Low leverage.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of stats out there that says he does a lot of his damage extra base hits wise when they are either winning by a lot or losing by a lot.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so when he struck out not when it's like when he struck out the other day against the DR with runners on second and third he texted me and said predictable guy gets a base hit in the first inning when the first two guys get out but when there's runners in scoring position he strikes out interesting.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah okay I think somebody said it about the NBA and they were talking about when they made that top 75 list and some reporter came out and was like this list is terrible if we're being honest with ourselves and remove like you know looking at the old guys as like holy grails 50 of the top 75 NBA players are probably playing today.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the same way with baseball and I you know you can't hate that's just the evolutionary fact of it and you know I'm sure if all those guys had the same things that we had yeah they'd be great too they'd be at the playing at the level that the guys are playing today.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting conversation.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that they did then that'd be a great conversation to have crazy crazy completely different story.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know because back then they didn't have all this stuff so it was just like you know feel there's a winging and and it was also I think what it has created is you have guys who naturally aren't as good they now have an ability to play for a very very long time.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like back then when they didn't have all this stuff and knew it was going on and technology and just like you again like a lot of what we do is remote.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't really have an ability to just get a remote coach.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you know they were just kind of on their own so it was like if you were games you know if you were good you were good.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you weren't you weren't it's funny you say that Daryl Strawberry came and talked to my college baseball team uh my first year about you know how much he's changed as a human being it was actually very inspirational but like you talked about kind of I mean those guys were doing Lord knows what in the locker room and everything in between innings.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they were still great which is cool unbelievable unbelievably good athletes.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: But again I think that's kind of the crazy part is all the information that's available now is allowing people who aren't as good as the guy who's just naturally really good to get better than them because now all the things that they're they aren't doing are catching up to them because people are allowed to do something about it.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think it's great.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah it gives opportunities available because it those people are also super appreciative of like where they are what they're doing.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: So last question if somebody wants to improve their velocity what do they do what are the factors I think there's a lot um strength ability like ability to move so you I guess you could call that mobility.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really like calling it mobility.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: I like to think of it as like a capacity thing.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can be mobile through ranges but if you don't have the capacity to move through that range and the task that you're trying to complete then it's kind of useless mobility.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it'd be like strength through the movement through the movement.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I I love you know like the strength through length.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Strength through length I I think applies a bunch to baseball especially throwing having strength through length training hard and just doing it consistently I think a lot of people get upset when they don't completely change their life in three months.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: I saw somebody talk about this and it was you know everybody likes to get stuck in these big phases of training like a strength phase a power phase a athleticism phases.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can do them all concurrently you should train all blocks concurrently really hard for what you need for a period of time.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do your sport and activity consistently continuously like try to get better try to make changes and put your head down and do it for three years.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Look up if you're not where you are when you wanted to be then you either need to change something or you might have to go try something different.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people get discouraged when it's not like a really a lot of people undervalue and I blame it on social media because again every athlete's a little bit different like I had a really really quick turnaround from a velocity standpoint.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if social media was really popular back in 2018 2019 my pitching coach could have posted Joe Clancy 85 to 93 in three months and some kid on Instagram would get discouraged because he doesn't have this because he doesn't have the same experience.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah totally but so kids get very discouraged very fast when they see that instead of being like I just got to keep going.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are five strength or power exercises that would be included um for me it's gonna be some sort of like slow eccentric low box squat like be able to control the pelvis and lower body through like a full range motion um I I like my pitchers to bench there's a lot of power and output that needs to be produced through the upper half again as long as they flat bench dumbbell or incline I I like to change the variation consistently I think they should be training the chest through consistent variation of ranges and strength again tempo whatever they're trying to accomplish um as long as they're doing everything else to keep themselves open they're fine.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Some sort of low box swat bench uh I do a ton of some like controlled seated dumbbell external rotation like working on the posterior cuff the Terry's minor everything like that um RDLs I think single leg obviously stability is a really really big thing and then any sort of jumping I love okay I love you know box jumps depth drops repeated broad jumps repeated hide ends depth explosion yep and just like ability to control and produce force I think is obviously super important.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of collision that goes on while pitching like you're colliding into the ground with your front foot it's transferring up well one thing I've always I've always thought pitching is it's a it's a power movement it's rapid it's quick it's a quick explosion it's not like a long duration so like training should is not like I've always been a disagreeer of like the I'd have a disagree with the poles you know like running poles.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah why it's like it's a long distance if someone's just trying to build a base of fitness capacity and they're just like slow and sluggish then like okay you know just for just for fitness base but like but training it's like it's a power thing.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we just like plyos, box jumps, sprints, single leg bounds, you know stuff like that.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: From the fitness aspect I was given to this when I was an athlete I love making guys do like five minutes of barefoot pogos.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like get some cardiovascular stuff because again a little bit has to be cardiovascular.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one output super explosive and now with the pitch clock you know you get 15 to 20 seconds so you gotta be ready to go again in 15 to 20 seconds.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love the pogos like it teaches guys how to use ground contact.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Again a lot of it I believe starts at the feet from pitching like if you don't have a stable foot it's gonna be really hard for you to do what you need to do.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it lights guys up they love it that you know I I always put in the thing like accumulate five minutes and the goal is always like hey when are we going to get to the point where you can just rip five minutes straight wow I love it.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And again you know you have to have some sort of cardio base.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah and all right last one would be core like what core exercises for improving your VLO I think people need to move a little bit away from like the anti-rotation stuff because again there's a ton of rotating that goes on a baseball.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know get some things that are going to rotate.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: But again there is a control aspect of it.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I like to have guys you know seated and they'll like pinch a foam roller in between their legs so we can really isolate the core so we're not like getting any kind of like hip hip movement.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know it'll be like a really really aggressive chop and then we'll control it back aggressively such a cable rotation.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so but I think there needs to be again most people just want to do pal off presses and like dead bugs and planks.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: We do a lot of payload stuff.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but because they're in pain.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm like dude if you want to get a six pack or you want to rip out some aggressive rotational torque and strength you got to do rotation exercises or also like V ups and crunches.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't hate those as long as you're like you're not in pain.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you're in pain then we're gonna do like anti-extension anti-rotation stuff.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: I do I do some I do a lot of core stuff that involves like lower deep ab kind of into the hip flexor area like um G I call them GHR reverse planks.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where you know the feet are up on the GHR instead of like facing down.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you go into you get it to where like your butt's just hanging off and you go in there and hold it and it requires so much from like the deep core and hip flexor which is super important throwing because that's you know it's holding us in that posterior tilt as we move down.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we can't hold that then we're slowly going to dump into anterior and like we're gonna lose a lot of the power.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I really really like um you know like hanging leg raises too well again you know we're stretching out the upper body this is like as long as we're doing other things yeah to keep other things balanced.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes and while you're balancing this really really big on variability.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it's hard to look at and be like you should only work on this because we don't want them to lose other aspects that they're already really good at.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know it's kind of like having like an ever-evolving wheel of we're just doing a lot of things rotate like you know bringing them in bringing them out um consistently that are challenging you and that way we don't lose any qualities.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we got cable rotating like a a a wall sit cable rotation or a sitting cable rotation chop.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hanging leg raises hanging leg raises and then GHR reverse crunch or like a hangoff crunch.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so like uh if you don't have a GHR doing hollow body holds okay I think hollow body holds are also pretty good.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: But then again I I look at the core as train it's the same as I look at training the chest, the back, the legs do a bunch of different stuff.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: I again I I want it to be rotational I want it to be aggressive but like we talked about I also want there to be some anti-extension like holding flexion for a long period of time.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think variability is one of the best things that you can have I think doing especially when we're looking at an athlete sense because yeah I want them to be strong I want them to be mobile and like I want them to be in good health but at the end of the day I just need them to be good at throwing a baseball so I don't need them to be really good at benching.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need them to be really good at doing pull-ups.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need them to be I need them to be good at throwing a baseball or other things that we're doing in the weight room that'll help them do that.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely but sometimes you got to figure out ways to like shift their focus of like hey man the weight room is just helping us be better at baseball this isn't the most important thing I want your bench to go up I want you to be able to tell your buddies that you bench 225 but some guys get like pigeonholed and like this is the only thing that matters I uh I I I love that because uh I've how many people you know I played football in college and volleyball there's plenty of people that were they looked like Arnold like they were they looked like athletes they look like pro players but they sucked they were weight room heroes yeah but they didn't play I'm like like dude like you got to get strong totally um but anyway that's what I like about sports is um versus like I mean fitness competitions they have their place and there's great and I love the community and stuff involved with that but what I like about sports is like you do the weight room stuff so that you can get better at your sport but it's just gonna elevate your performance that then you have to perform you have to actually hit the ball you have to throw the ball you have to have your command on point but like the fitness stuff and the the strength and conditioning stuff is going to make you a better athlete versus like that is the sport you know I I love it.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome again I think it gives you look at soccer the greatest soccer player of all time is what five eight?
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they're fit yeah but they're not squat they're not like benching five hundred pounds they can run for forever.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and they can sprint when they need to when they're tired.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think again it's completely different.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think that might be the only Thing that like I don't really like about basketball is if you're not six three.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a barrier.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to there's a barrier of entry for basketball.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's no barrier of entry in baseball.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are there are short guys who are like look at Jose Altube.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Mike Trout, he was how tall is he?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's a he's a big fella.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is he so how tall is he?
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably like 6'1.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh he's a he's a big dude.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: But Altube is like 5'10.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a I think he's shorter than that.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's a small guy.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you look at like the pitching side, Billy Wagner, Billy Wagner was 5'10, 5'11, and left-handed guy that threw mid to upper 90s.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I I always have an appreciation for sports where it's if you're just good, then you can play.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: So awesome.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for coming in.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's uh what's the best way people can reach out?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they can go to our website, it's goprimeperformance.com or our Instagram, it's also goprimeperformance.com.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all of our contact information location stuff is on there.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: The uh yeah, so if y'all have anybody that is um looking for like baseball specific training um one-on-one and purposeful, reach out to them.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're up in like I said, Port St.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: Lucie.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we've had you know, we've had some exchanges of clientele and stuff too.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like they see like high-level guys and very driven individuals, but then also people that just want to get better, you know?
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, don't hesitate to reach out to them.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if you all have any questions for us, comments, questions, concerns, or conflicting opinions, don't ever hesitate to reach out.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're battling any pain too, we can at least chat on the phone and see what you have going on and maybe what direction to point you in.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll catch y'all next time.