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The Trust-Building Rule Most Entrepreneurs Ignore · The Expert Method

• speaker-0: There's no work life balance. It's about prioritization and making sure that you're doing the right thing at the right time. The key is to not abuse people. I use you, you use me, we're changing time ⁓ to get exposure, but we use other people. Betting on consistency more than talent ⁓ works most of the time, if not all the time. Getting punched in the face a lot and realizing that I didn't get knocked out all the time. speaker-1: What is the advantage that having a strong relationship with your clients, the people you're working with bring to you now? speaker-0: You're gonna see when people's true colors are when things F up. speaker-1: You meet somebody for the first time, maybe it's a client, referral partner, or somebody who can open a door for you down the road. The instinct is to want to make a strong first impression, say the right thing, tell the right story, or show them why you're worth betting on. But most relationships are not built in that first conversation. They're built after it, when people get to see whether or not you follow through, whether you keep your word, and whether you handle things the right way when something goes wrong. So what makes people decide that they can actually count on you? To help answer that question, I'm excited to be joined today by Tom LaVecchia. Tom is the founder of X Factor Media, the publisher of the New Jersey Digest, and the host of the New Theory Podcast, where years in sales, marketing, and media have shaped a very practical philosophy about relationships, reputation, and playing the long game. In our conversation, we discuss why consistency beats talent, how Tom decides whether a relationship should stay transactional or become a transformational one. What actually builds trust today and how becoming a father has changed the way he thinks about success. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with Thomas La Vecchia. Tom, thank you so much for being here. speaker-0: It's a pleasure, Ian. ⁓ thanks for having me. speaker-1: Absolutely. So Tom, as I was digging into your background, I realized that you have worn a lot of different hats. Right, you've worked in sales, marketing, publishing, you have a huge podcast. But one thing that seems consistent in your journey is your ability to build relationships with people. So when you look back at your career, what do you think made people willing to take a chance on you? speaker-0: Great question, Ian. Again, thank you again for having me. In my opinion, and this is gonna sound kind of cliche, but I I I think betting on consistency more than talent ⁓ works most of the time, if not all the time. I've never been like the smartest guy in the room or, you know, I've always, you know, but I've always shown up, right? I've always followed through. I've always, for the most part, did my best to keep my word, try to create value before asking something in return and really kind of play the long game. So, like earlier on in my career, I sold, you know, pharmaceuticals and then I sold like medical devices. And you know, you heard no a lot. Learning that no was valuable because a lot of conversations start with no. And then from there, it kind of builds a rapport to kind of find out why and have a discussion. So kind of build dozens, if not hundreds, or if not thousands, of interactions over time. So nowadays, whether it's for New Jersey Digest, which is our publishing arm, X Factor Media or the podcast. I still operate the same way. I played a long game. If I'm gonna do something, ⁓ I'm gonna say I'm gonna do it. Over time your reputation compounds because nowadays, and it's kind of sad, just by fulfilling your word used to be the minimum, right? Now it's kinda like you fulfill your word, you stand out, because a lot of people don't. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean one thing we were talking about Hermozy before we we hopped on here, one thing that he said that's really stuck with me is like everybody gets super obsessed with this idea of exceeding expectations. Right. But at the end of the day, all frustrations stem from unmet expectations. And in order like it is what it is, right? But like all you have to do is just set expectations, meet expectations, right? Follow through on the things that you say that you're gonna do and just set expectations, read meet expectations on a loop. But one thing that you mentioned there is that you play the long game. How does that orientation affect your day to day decision making. Like what is playing the long game look like on a day to day? speaker-0: Great question again. So believe it or not, the long game sounds a little sexier than it is. So and one thing I learned is you need to match energy. And I know it's obvious, especially a lot of Gen Zers and stuff. Well, I'm gonna match energy. Well, for you know, a boomer like myself, it's not something we kind of like look into or did, maybe organically, or you had gut or street smarts. But for the most part, playing the long game is basically just trying to offer value for people. And then hope in time that value returns, whether you expect it or not, to hope to do that. But one thing I learned though is, and the hard way is you have to take relationships for what they are, right? Are they gonna be transactional or are they gonna be transformational? Right. And in the past, you know, you know, people would deal with you and they're transactional. And I'd be like, well, I'm gonna get them on the next gig or Hey, I'll reduce my price because I'm hoping they give me more business later. ⁓ most people are full of crap, right? So for the most part, I'll meet somebody now, and not that I bucket it, but organically I'll kind of say, Hey, is this a transactional relationship? Are they just looking to be a background player, right? And then NPC player in my journey, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. We can transact and move on. Or is this something that I see being a main character or supporting character? And some of it's gut, some of it's sats, some of it's kind of like opportunity. And I do try to play the long game, but again, selectively, because unfortunately most relationships are transactional. speaker-1: Yeah. So most relationships aren't apt or set up and they're not coming into their relationship with you with a orientation that really enables the benefit of playing the long game with that individual because they're approaching their relationship with you very transactional. So you can immediately gauge that and know that okay, trying to play the long game with this person isn't necessarily going to be the what's the best ⁓ way to play this relationship. ⁓ what do you see as the difference between a transactional and ⁓ transformational relationship? speaker-0: Yeah. So if you're looking to do business with somebody and they're new to your space, it could be a referral, it could be an organic lead, it could be a podcast guest, whatever that is. And there's kind of but yet you didn't do business yet, right? Is I tend off to make the relationship structurally transactional to protect us, but to also protect them. So for example, if we're gonna do a website for you and then we're gonna do a marketing program, I'll structure a website deal, scope of work to contain that. So once that's done, I gotta see if I like working with you. You gotta see if you like working with me. Why'd we go into a website and a year-long marketing SEO package when I don't know if I like it? And to be honest, you may not like me, right? So I tend to structure the deals to be transactional, to give us a little bit of glimpse in how you work, how we work. Is there account chemistry, right? And then if there's account chemistry, then we say, great, we did a great job on the website. Let's go ahead and have a deeper dive and make it more transformational, which is again the long game, that kind of stuff. So I do structure a lot of my deals. I learned early on from a great mentor that, like, I know people say you use people. Well, for adults, we do. It is what it is, right? It's just the nature of it. It sounds brutal. I use you, you use me. We're changing time ⁓ to get exposure, but we use other people. The key is to not abuse people, right? So I try to use people for what they're worth to me at the time and I try to offer value and maybe even over deliver at times, right? But the short answer there and kind of a long answer, but the short answer is I structure deals to be transactional and then I'll extract transformational when it makes sense. speaker-1: Yeah. So you approach the beginning of any new relationship, any new deal as a transactional. This is one isolated project, right? I'm not going to offer some huge discount because I, you know, am dreaming of this being a long term huge relationship down the road. But you kind of dip your toes into the waters of this new relationship with some kind of transactional opportunity. And then you use that as an evaluation phase to see, hey, do I like working with you? Do you like working with me? If so, then we can start to negotiate or structure some kind of long term transformational kind of relationship. So why is it important to work with people that you like working with? speaker-0: Because you like ⁓ you know, because you like being with them. You want to see them win. You're not jealous of them. You're not envious of them. Hopefully they're not jealous of you or envious of them. I learned the hard way, you know, not to get biblical, but you can't pour from an empty cup. So in the past, I would give, give, give, give. And then I realized that you had an empty cup, right? And like, listen, it's profit's okay, man. You know, you need profit for short term cash flow constraints. So if you're jammed up, you have profit to cover it. If there's emergencies, ⁓ my God, there's a either something going on or a rainy day, like you know, where hey, we're having a drought, we need to like kind of do this without taking loans. So you need to make money. I know it's obvious, but it's not to a lot of people. A lot of entrepreneurs are operating and then you look at the PL like, wow, I'm not really making money, right? So even though you can't quantify every relationship, and I did kind of say, Hey, any business dealings, I try to make transactional too transformational. If it's not a business dealing, I tend to do favors and tend to do stuff that enrich people to kind of have that bench, if you will. Cause I know when they need something, they'll they'll think of me. And it's learned. It's not something that ⁓ I, you know, like knew. It's something I got I had great mentors, it's good the experience. And it's something you learn over time. It's not something you're born with. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. It takes getting burned probably a lot of times to really learn that lesson. And I can speak from my personal experience. You know, I started my first business when I was very young and naive. And, you know, I thought the best out of just everybody. Like everybody's my friend, right? I'm just gonna be the best like we're all gonna work together forever, right? So I can do all this free work for people out of the gates. But you do learn pretty quickly that ⁓ you know, people are gonna put themselves number one and rightfully so. Right. You like you should look out for yourself first. And you know, if you're gonna be operating in that mode where you're gonna approach every relationship is just like, okay, I'm just gonna start doing a lot of this free stuff, discounted stuff, and build this long term relationship, people are gonna you're gonna get taken advantage of. Yeah. ⁓ but it is just a lesson that you have to learn over time. And ⁓ I don't think it's like a a bad thing to start out that way, but you will learn that lesson eventually. ⁓ You spent a lot of time working in sales and now you've been in this business game for for quite some time. speaker-0: Yeah, I agree. speaker-1: What have you learned about how people decide whether or not they trust somebody? Like what goes into building trust? speaker-0: Yeah. So trust is something that take a lifetime to build and an immediate second to completely lose, along with your reputation. So in order to build trust, it's a little different now, right? Before people were a little bit more relationship oriented, right? So perfect example would be you're selling copy machines and you would go door to door and you build a rapport with the owner and then you bring ⁓ coffee and donuts and then you sell them a copy machine. And it works out. Great and they have relationship. That maybe you go on to sell paychecks and then you used to get their checking, and then you go on to sell something bigger, franchises, again the franchise something else. In the past, the the kind of the pivot point or the the core was ⁓ people, right? Was relationships. Now, kind of fast forward, it's really about providing value and execution, right? So people generally like I used to ⁓ when I started my business. I came from the pharmaceutical business. So I'd be like, ⁓ I need to take this guy out to dinner or gal out to dinner. And I would have, ⁓ contracts worth thirty thousand dollars and I need to have an acquisition cost of six thousand dollars. So it's gonna get them to dinner, go to a ball game, and like let's develop that relationships. I know if they like me, they'll do business with me. It's the opposite. I don't leave the house and if I do, it's gotta be a bigger deal or it's gotta be an existing client where we have a relationship. And it's about providing value against the scope of work and what we do. Charlie Munger, who, you know, rest in peace, who was with ⁓ Warren Buffett for many years, says, your next client's in front of you. So if you could just deliver on what you're gonna say you're gonna do, that's all you need right now. And that's how you build trust. Like somebody may trust you, and if you're not delivering, then they're no longer gonna trust you. Versus they may trust you because you're delivering and they may not like you, but they're still gonna do business with you because they like the result. And that's what people care about. It's more about the product now is shifted from people to product and the people that kinda understand that are winning in the game. speaker-1: Yeah. I'm just searching up Charlie Munger's quote. yeah, that I love that quote. The greatest source I think it was something along the lines of when he was running his law firm. Yeah, it was like the greatest source of new work is the work on your desk. Right. If you just can deliver and fulfill and do a great job with the work that's in front of you, the clients that you already have, the work that you've already promised to deliver on. Just do the best you can with that. And that is going to be the greatest source of new work because those happy clients that you're creating are going to turn into more happy clients or more business from that existing happy client. When I hear you talking about that, like thinking back in the back in the day where all it really took to to get business was to just build like a great relationship with somebody, right? For somebody to like you, right? Just take them out to dinner, have a good time, right? ⁓ just build that relationship. But now it's kind of pivoted or switched into in order to build trust, right? Or grow your business or get more clients, you have to just do a great job. Like I think that's probably the right transition, in my opinion. Like it's not just so gatekeeped by relationships and people like each other. Like now it's just more focused on doing a great job, doing great work. But what do you think caused that transition. Like what do you think created that ⁓ that transition from back in the day, all it took is get people to like you, build those strong relationships, and now it's more focused on just delivering and doing great work. speaker-0: Because I think results mattered matter more now than in the past. Meaning if you were in certain spaces, it was boom times, right? ⁓ I remember again being like pharmaceuticals, right? I would sell like in primary care setting, a doctor is writing a prescription. That's a what we call a free good, meaning he's not paying for it, right? He's the customer, but he's not the consumer. Probably third party insurance company out of pocket. So he's not paying for it. So building that rapport is important because it doesn't cost him anything or her anything, right? Now, when I got into medical devices, which was a direct sell, this is now out of the the doctor's pocket, the surgeon's pocket, the dermatologist's pocket. So the trust I kind of brought in, let's go to dinner, let's go here, go there. And they're like, Well, no, I need to get this price down to here. Or ⁓ hey, I I need value on consulting my patients because I need to get a higher close rate. So I noticed a value would transition more on the kind of payee, right? When it's a free good, it's about could be about relationship because they're not paying for it. But when you're going out of your pocket, it's not about relationship, it's about results. So as you kind of go up, you tend to deal with more C level suite, ⁓ entrepreneurs, et cetera, who pay out of their own pocket, not out of a corporate budget. So therefore it's about results. And that was a big part of the transition because it is about results, not about relationship in that sense. And that kind of fostered I guess that environment if that makes sense. speaker-1: Yeah. Absolutely. So where do you think the value of building that relationship, that strong relationship, them liking you, right? You liking each other, how does that play in now? 'Cause I I I would find it hard to believe that it doesn't matter at all, right? Like I feel like if you were just somebody who was delivering, right, they're doing a great job, sure, maybe they stick with you for a while. But what is the advantage that having a strong relationship with your clients, the people you're working with bring to you now? speaker-0: Well, you're gonna see when people's true colors are when things f up, right? And they're going to, right? So I always say, listen, you know what? We will, I'll say on the first call, we will F something up. 100% if we work together for a year, me or my team will mess something up. That's it. Letting you know now. We're not perfect, but we're honest, right? But when we mess up, we suit up like Batman to fix it. So it's about showing up. Every day, consistency. And then if something goes wrong, to be there right away to say, wait a second, if a pipe breaks, I'm gonna be there to fix it. And that's kind of how you build trust again on the results and the performance. And that's how you build trust because they know, you know what? Tom seems not perfect, but if they don't, if they screw up, I know they got my back. speaker-1: Amazing. Amazing. Tom. So I'd like to pivot into something a little bit different now. So you've talked about I think I sa read in an article somewhere that your kids are your biggest success. But I think at the time you had two kids, now you have four, is that right? Four. Amazing. So I don't have kids. I hope one day ⁓ that that changes. But Tom, how has being a father changed the way that you think about ambition? speaker-0: Yeah, four, yeah. Growing up, and I'm my family's from Italy. I'm an Italian American, first generation here. My brothers and my mother were born there. And I guess the playbook there, and I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, but the playbook that I was growing up on is I was supposed to be the hunter-gatherer, right? And I had a great corporate job and I was making great money, but I was missing things. I was sacrificing things, right? So At that time at 35, it wasn't a big deal, right? Now as I get older, because I do have a gap, I got two children, sixteen, thirteen, five, and four. But now for all four of them, I refuse to miss anything meaningful that I can help, right? Of course I have meetings, course I have stuff going on, may have to cancel some parenting time, I might have to be able to not be present at certain times. But in general, again, like consistency, I show up, I try not to miss anything. And it took a while. And I'm like, you know what? And then I'm like, then I kind of went like the other way too, where I was working in my business and I worked from home and I wasn't making a lot of money. I was like, well, you know, I'm not a corporate, but I'm making a lot ⁓ I'm making a lot of this money, but I'm present, right? And I'm like, that's great, right? But I'm not making a lot of money now. I realize you can do both. You can. Why not? Like, why not make more money? Right? If you're running a business and you want to make more money, you want to scale. Well, I hired a number two. Mike is a great guy. He runs the company. He does everything. I handle the sales. I handle like some paid media stuff, some earned media stuff, some strategy, but I hired to buy time and it worked. And although I still work a lot, I work more concentrated. I probably don't work a 40 hour week. I'm not this guy that's like hustle culture and I'm working, you know, 47 hours a week. I'm probably working a core 25. But those twenty five are meaningful. And why do I work a core twenty-five and not a forty? Because I wanna focus that time on family and friends. And honestly, at this point with four kids, you need the money to do it. So there is a little bit of a factor of like, you gotta do it, not just wanna do it. So that combined with having to do it, but wanting to do it for my children's inspiration, but also making time for them. And it's not work life balance. There's no work life balance. It's I wanna do this today. I wanna go to Chucky Cheese with my children. Great. I'll I'll make sure I have no calls. Then there's another day, I maybe then a Saturday, I'm going to an event. I don't get to go to Chunky Cheese. It's not about work-life balance, about prioritization and making sure that you're doing the right thing at the right time. But Ian, I I know you're a younger guy. I recommend children. I know a lot of people don't. Best thing you can do as a man, the best thing you can do is be a father, and the best thing you can do is be president. speaker-1: Amazing. So outside of the ambition and the adjustments that it it made for you in your career and your professional life, how else has being a father changed who you are? speaker-0: Other than adjustments, I would say it's my clearly defining role. I'm a husband and father first. Everything else is don't get me wrong, health obviously is up there. And then everything else and and the business, but like, you know, you need the business to make money. So it's intertwined with that, right? So it's one A, if you will, right? But my point being is other adjustments that I made as a father, not just to be present and be available. But is also, and it's gonna sound corny, but try to make more because it can do more, right? Like earn with intention, right? Like don't just earn money to get another Chanel bag. Earn money so it can go on a family vacation that, you know what? Poor kids down the shore of Jersey. It's gonna be a $15,000 a week trip, right? A lot of money. That's gone. I could, you know, maybe write off some components so if there's a business component, but that money's a sunk cost, right? But one adjustments I made is I adjusted my framework. And my my thinking that you know what, you only get maybe if you're lucky, 18 of these per kid. If you're lucky, and that's core memory is gonna mass forever, and that money's gonna come and go, but that core memory stays. When I'm long gone and my kids are in their 50s, they're gonna think back about the weekend in Jersey Shore. And as a father, that has become more important for me, and that's what I'm leaning into. speaker-1: Yeah, those kinds of core memories, that time with your family, those moments mean a lot more than a Chanel bag. speaker-0: Agreed. Agreed. ⁓ my wife may disagree but that's another discussion, just speaker-1: I love it. ⁓ so Tom, in our conversation, earlier on you you used the term like NPC. I almost feel like you kind of have a different way of looking at life, like almost like the game of life, right? Like you kind of almost see it as like different characters, different people, different players. Right. So how do you see the game of life should be played? Like how are you approaching life? This is a big a big question, probably a complicated question to answer, but it seems like you might have a nuanced opinion on kind of how you look at life. speaker-0: So with your family, you know, love with intention, love unconditionally, be there for them. Hopefully they'll be there for you, right? So if you are have a strong foundation, a strong family life, I think it's easier to do business, right? And also have those uncomfortable conversations. Maybe, ⁓ maybe my wife wants more, right? Nothing wrong with that. I used to like kind of have a scarcity mentality where it's like you want a chanel bag, that's twelve thousand dollars. Like Like we can afford that. No. Now I'm like, well, how can we afford it? Right. Reframing. I know it's obvious. And you have intelligent readers, and I'm not saying anything new, but you reframe it to see how can we how can we afford it, right? And then business is just make money. Like make money and stack chips. And God forbid something happens. You have money if there's an emergency. And if not, you have withdrawals to buy those nice things that they may like. And there's nothing wrong with wanting things. Like it's almost like a nasty little like. thing and again as coming from an immigrant family, you do have a scarcity mentality that you have to overcome. It's not easy. But once you overcome it and realize that you can live a life of abundance, it's not limited to just family, but it could be family and work together. speaker-1: Yeah. I love it. So you kind of see it all as one, right? You don't have them as isolated buckets. Each feeds the other and all kind of is involved in the same game. ⁓ and another thing that just I'm curious about because I'm starting to embark on this journey myself. You mentioned like a biblical phrase, right? Not pouring from an empty cup. ⁓ I'm not sure. I didn't find this, ⁓ anything about this in ⁓ when I was doing research for this conversation. But is faith a big part of your life? speaker-0: Not as much as ⁓ not as much as I'd like for it to be. So I am a man of faith. I I'm a ⁓ kind of an A and P Catholic. I go to, you know, church on on the on the high holidays, if you will. But it is enough where I do believe in God, I do believe in faith, ⁓ of a higher being, Jesus, and raised Catholic. ⁓ that's probably an area, you know, you probably did the Tony Robbins thing where you do like the circle and the pizza pie of like where do you rank from one to ten? And you're almost better off being a six at everything. 'Cause if it's a wheel, it'll go faster than being ten, ten, ten, ten, one 'cause you get cla clung, cla clunk, clunk, right? So one of the cla clunks I guess I I have to lean a into is to make more time to respect my faith and lean into my faith and lead by example. So I I admit I'm not gonna sit there and say, Well, you know, I'm this the great man of God. No, I I do practice for the most part, but I could do better and that's something that I own. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, I'm just starting off in in my own journey. I wasn't rel raised with religion in any way and I'm grateful for that because it gave me the opportunity, the time, the space to explore that for myself. ⁓ and you know, I was a the angsty teen, the guy in college being like, I'm an atheist, whatever, I'm too cool for that, none of that. And then, you know, I don't know. It's just like been a interesting journey over the last couple of years for me. And ⁓ it's like almost it's it's It's not something that I can really ignore anymore. So just kind of going through my own unstructured journey of ⁓ finding God, which sounds weird for me to say out loud because that's not ⁓ something I ever thought that that that would happen for me. But another thing that I'm noticing with you is that you are uniquely, unapologetically kind of yourself, right? Like you're not like ashamed to hide anything about yourself. Like even in your answer to the last question where you just answered so transparently, honestly, like is that were you always that way? speaker-0: I guess I was a little bit more private. So maybe like you don't want people to know, or ⁓ you're worried about maybe a client, prospective client watching this. And I do have like some faith based clients. I have like one of our bigger clients is ⁓ you know, a conservat is a is Jewish, is conservative. My point being is I respect people that are true to their religions and I respect people that have faith and I I love that. I think it's a great quality, right? But the old meme might have been like, well, maybe I don't want to bring up that I'm not as religious as a person because of if they're they might not like me because I'm not religious, right? No, I'm me. I may not practice the same religion as you, but we're also not part of the same synagogue or the same church. We're here to do business together, transact, whether be making you money or get your awareness, whatever your goal is. That's what we're here for. And I'm just honest about it. And having that honesty in intention. makes it much easier. You said earlier, friction comes from when there's unmet needs, right? Well, if you know what the shot is and you know what like what the plan is and you make that plan and you can point to objective and say, well, you're upset. You said you wanted A, we delivered a here we are. What is a real issue? And it opens up the conversation, typically to find like deeper wounds. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. I find myself going through that clunky evolution myself of just trying not to get so hung up in what other people think and just trying to be more authentically myself and just focus on like the things that really matter, which in the business sense is just delivering on the things that I say that I'm gonna do and just being the best version of myself and, you know, being a good person. But so I admire that about you. You just ⁓ are who you are and you're, you know, open about the things that you're working on and wanting to get better at and Not afraid to ⁓ you're not trying to put on like any kind of face to be somebody that you're not. So that's something that I'm definitely gonna learn from you. So, Tom, last couple of questions for you. But when we look at all the work that you're doing with New Theory, X Factor, the podcast, everything that you've built, what do you hope it all adds up to? speaker-0: ⁓ something that either again, transparently, either something that I can exit from and pass that wealth down to my our children or hand the baton over to maybe one of the kids who wants to get interest. Right now, none are showing any super meaningful interest. My oldest, I'm hoping secretly that he wants to. But ⁓ I want to exit so to to to cover the time and effort that I put in and extract the value that I did. And then not just that do something hopefully meaningful in the the the The last half of my years with that. speaker-1: Yeah. So what do you see the path to exit for you right now? Like I just had ⁓ Steven Pivnik on who is a consultant and helps people or helps businesses prepare their businesses for exits. We had a great conversation about that. But like for you right now and where you're at with your business, you know, thirteen thirteen years in, what is the path to exit for you the way you see it? speaker-0: So we probably have to probably right now four X our revenue and we probably have to eight X our EBITDA of where we're at to have a meaningful exit that'll matter to pay out my partner, maybe some junior people, taxes, et cetera. So we kind of have a path in terms of like revenue, if you will, and an EBITDA. ⁓ but more importantly, to get it at the right price and at peak. So so for example, ⁓ for Digest, we have DIDES for six years now. And basically we for the first five, six years, we focus on growth over profit. So now we reach about a million and a half people a month to the point of like I was funding it out of pocket, some months, five figures, just was growth at all costs. And there was nothing wrong with that. We said we're gonna find a way to monetize it later. Now we are monetizing it and we're still figuring out how to best monetize it. So I think once we like optimally monetize it. That's when we'll hockey stick. And you gotta have faith in the process. I don't know many people who are willing to wait five years just to grow and not make any money, but that's something we've done. ⁓ and we have something a little bit meaningful behind that. And and and and and and you gotta trade time too, right? Like the podcast is great, knee theory podcast. We have a hundred thousand followers. Truth is, I don't put enough time into it. I love doing it. It's just I don't make enough money from it. So I kind of backed away. 'Cause right now I'm in the operating and earning money game and I'm unapologetic about it. So I gotta I wanna kinda like get digest going and then leap back at any theory. But to be honest to find a way c find a way to make money doing it. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, that's as I mentioned again before we press record, that was the only thing that kept me going with this podcast. The only thing that's kept me consistent in doing this is figuring out a way to make money doing it and serve a objective that I have in my business. But something that you mentioned there is in this five years of of growing the digest, six years of growing the digest, you went five years of just growth at all costs, pouring money into it. And you said that you have to have faith in the process. But I think there's more than just faith in the process. You have to have faith in yourself, faith in the team that you're working with and building. So in those moments where Maybe somebody from the outside, maybe your wife at some points, but maybe some people from the outside are looking at what you're doing and just being like, What are you doing, Tom? This is a sinking ship. You gotta make money. Like what gave you faith in yourself, the team that you're working with? Like where did that come from? speaker-0: Well, so the way we structured, so we have a a marketing agency, X Factor Media. So and it's kind of a blessing and a curse. A blessing is the marketing agency pays our bills and our mortgages to make sure we don't get them taken away. It does obviously we had to service our clients, so we're happy to do so and we love servicing our clients. But the idea is it's supposed to help fund our opportunity to help digest grow. So we set up a structure in place that we probably would have grew more if I took outside funding, right? You know, Alex Shamozi talks about debt. Do you want financial debt or do you want talent debt or tech debt, et cetera? I did decide to bootstrap and we have maybe some debt in the other areas that are non-financial. So with that said, though, is ⁓ we structured it in a way that we can grow digest brick by brick without having to eat ramen. Yeah, we do well enough on the A to C side. It's fulfilling. We were able to service it. We're able to service it well. But we use Digest as kind of a launch pad. And as I kind of as Digest grows, my challenge is gonna be how to put the resources correctly where to give Digest the fuel that it needs to accelerate, but also maintaining a really strong and powerful agency. And that's a balance that I that I kind of struggle with even today. speaker-1: Yeah, that's a very logical, like structured answer, right? Like you felt secure because of the way that you had structured the businesses, the finances. You knew that you had the agency there running, humming, bringing in money, that it was going to be able to fuel the growth at all costs mentality with digest. But again, I feel like there's something deep like I as I'm talking with you, right? We've known each other for thirty seven minutes. But you just kind of have this certainty. Like you you speak very matter of factly. Which I think can only come from somebody who has this conviction, this confidence in their self, in themselves, and their ability to execute. So like where did that come from? Cause I find myself in my journey, right? Like I built a marketing agency for four and a half years, exited that, and then now I'm starting the second business. And the one constant that I found in both the marketing agency and growing that and in growing this new business is just the up and downs emotionally. And like a lot of it just comes down to just the confidence and the conviction that I have in myself. And so I can struggle with that and I know I re relate to other entrepreneurs who are on their own journey in saying that. So like where did this confidence in yourself come from? speaker-0: It came from getting punched in the face a lot and realizing that I didn't get knocked out all the time or most of the time. So just basically being able to survive, being able to live. Then you benchmark, like, well, wait a second. Eighty percent of businesses fail in the first five years. ⁓ shit, we're still here, you know? Well, like ninety-five percent of businesses don't make it ten years. Wow, we're still here. So we got something special. So I try to benchmark on how we're doing. I always try to give internal goals to our team. So kind of like as you reach that goal or exceed that goal, you feel confident, right? You're saying, wait a second, we got something here. And then also just kind of like the inertia of the business itself, getting bigger scopes of work, getting bigger contracts. ⁓ we've been very fortunate to work with a Fortune five ⁓ company, ⁓ one of the largest e com econ companies in the world doing the social media locally. So we've been very fortunate on the path that we've taken, but the confidence really came from just operating every day. And being consistent and showing up. You're gonna see like it's almost like the same answer every time. Consistency, showing up, operating. And then by doing that, that's kind of as Alex Timozi says, you get enough reps in, you're able to do it. And that's where that confidence comes from. speaker-1: Yeah, you outwork your self doubt. And then you also take moments along the journey to just celebrate the wins that you do have and just kind of get out get that little gremlin voice to kind of quiet down for a little bit and take a moment to sell celebrate. I love it. Tom, thank you so much for the time. Last couple of questions here. This one I'm stealing from an interview that you did on your show, and I thought it was a great question. ⁓ but if you could have dinner with anybody, dead or alive, who would it be and why? speaker-0: It'd be my mother. She died in ⁓ 2014. She was everything to me. ⁓ I kind of feel like although I stayed out like it again, Titan American, I stayed at home to 28. Yeah, that's not as common nowadays. So I did spend a lot of time with her. very hard on myself. ⁓ and I wish that sometimes I was a better son. But I would like to have dinner with her and then tell her about how my older two are doing great. She knew them and then how we have the two younger ones and tell them about what they got going on. speaker-1: That's great answer. ⁓ I love that. ⁓ before I get to my final question, which is a recurring question that I ask every guest, Tom, how can people get in touch with you? speaker-0: Fantastic. So ⁓ Tom Lavecia or Thomas Levecchia ⁓ LinkedIn easy. ⁓ New Theory Podcast, the podcast at New Theory Podcast on Instagram, New Theory Podcast. And ⁓ companies called X Factor Media, look us up and ⁓ there's any opportunities you'd love to work with your w work with your listeners. speaker-1: Amazing. We'll have the links to everything in the description. Go check out Tom on social media, check out X Factor and everything there. But Tom, my final question for you, as I mentioned, is a recurring question that I ask every guest. If you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds, what would it say and why? speaker-0: Be a good father 'cause it's worth it. speaker-1: Amazing. Amazing. Be a good father because it's worth it. Tom, thank you so much for the time. Okay. Thank you for listening. The main thing I'm taking away from my conversation with Tom is just a reminder that your next opportunity is found in the work already in front of you. Tom kept coming back to this simple idea that if you say you're gonna do something, do it. And that sounds basic, but it is where a lot of reputations are actually built or damaged. Right. And this was just a really good reminder for me. Like we brought up the quote about Charlie Munger. speaker-0: Have a great day. speaker-1: Right. The the greatest source of new work is usually found and the work on your desk. And this is a good reminder for me at this point in time because I find myself just chasing all these new opportunities, these new people to meet, when in reality I have enough on my desk right now where if I just did the best that I absolutely could with the clients and the work that I already have, all of my opportunities are going to come from that. So thank you, Tom, for the reminder in our conversation. If you want to get connected with Tom, You can find the links to his LinkedIn, New Theory Podcast, and X Factor Media in the description. And if you run a coaching program, course, or mastermind, or you have a book and you want to make it easier for your clients or readers to get results, download the free program execution system toolkit in the description. It'll show you how to install what I call execution infrastructure, which will guide your clients step by step through doing the work that you tell them to do to get results. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.