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Is ethical investing as ethical as we think it is? · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: She's on the Money.
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  Speaker 2: She's on the Money. Hello, and welcome to She's on
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Now these days, most of us are pretty aware of
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  Speaker 2: the impact we have on the planet and on the
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  Speaker 2: people around us. We opt for keep cups over disposable,
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  Speaker 2: we're careful to separate our recyclables from the rest of
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  Speaker 2: the rubbish, and we're slowly starting to change our behaviors
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  Speaker 2: when it comes to fast fashion. But how about investing.
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  Speaker 2: How can we start investing in a more ethical way?
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  Speaker 2: And if we choose to, what implications will that have
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  Speaker 2: not only on the future of our planet, but on
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  Speaker 2: the future of our own bank accounts. My name is
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  Speaker 2: Georgia King, and joining me to get to the bottom
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  Speaker 2: of ethical investing is Financial Advisor, Miss Victoria Define. This
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  Speaker 2: episode has been a very long time coming and the
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  Speaker 2: people have been asking for it. But for anyone new
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  Speaker 2: to the concept of ethical investing, can you talk us
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  Speaker 2: through what it actually means?
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  Speaker 1: I can. I'm so excited about this episode because not
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  Speaker 1: only has it been long awaited by everybody in our community,
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  Speaker 1: but ge how long have I been telling you I
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  Speaker 1: really want to deep dive on ethical investing.
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  Speaker 2: Probably since I started.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy and I'm so opinionated about this, so
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  Speaker 1: you just wait. I feel like this podcast is going
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  Speaker 1: to get a little bit heated good anyway, As regular
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  Speaker 1: pod listers would know, investing means buying shares in companies,
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  Speaker 1: which makes you a baby stakeholder in that company money win. Naturally,
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  Speaker 1: some companies are considered to be more ethical than others.
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  Speaker 1: G For example, companies that work in the renewable energy
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  Speaker 1: space have more of a positive impact on our planet
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  Speaker 1: than those working in fossil fuels, and consequently, most of
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  Speaker 1: us would consider them to be more ethical. So basically,
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  Speaker 1: ethical investing is choosing to invest your money in companies
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  Speaker 1: that have a positive impact on our society and or
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  Speaker 1: our planet, rather than the companies who may not be
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  Speaker 1: so ethical.
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  Speaker 2: Right. I feel like we do kind of forget that
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  Speaker 2: when we're investing. We are investing in companies, and there's kin, yes,
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  Speaker 2: sences for where our money actually goes, right.
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  Speaker 1: And it goes beyond just what is ethical and what
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  Speaker 1: isn't ethical. And I've spoken about this with pretty much
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  Speaker 1: every single client I have, But I think people assume
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  Speaker 1: that when companies use words like green and ethical and
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  Speaker 1: socially responsible and all of those words that you go, oh,
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  Speaker 1: that must mean that they're a pretty good company.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 1: You would think that there's some kind of regulation around it, right,
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  Speaker 1: just like if you pop into coals and you see
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  Speaker 1: the organic section, like, you know, that's certified organic, and
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  Speaker 1: in Australia there's this list of criteria that they need
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  Speaker 1: to meet and prove that they've met so that they
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  Speaker 1: can put that organic sticker on. In Australia, there's actually
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  Speaker 1: no obligation when it comes to ethical investing to have
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  Speaker 1: a certain criteria, and people just assume that when words
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  Speaker 1: like green or Emerald portfolio are used, they must automatically
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  Speaker 1: also be ethical because we would just assume, right, yes,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not true. And it's really frustrating because so
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  Speaker 1: many of us will say things like, yes, but I
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  Speaker 1: chose the Emerald portfolio, so I'm a more ethical investor.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm like, cool, well did you know that you've
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  Speaker 1: got exposure to non ethical assets? And you'll go, what, no,
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  Speaker 1: but I chose the ethical one. I'll be like no, no, no, Emerald,
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  Speaker 1: they never said ethical. And if you look deeper into it,
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  Speaker 1: some companies will use terms like emerald or socially responsible.
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  Speaker 1: They won't actually ever use the term ethical because they're
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  Speaker 1: a little.
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  Speaker 2: Bit cheeky interesting. I mean like that, Just to like
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  Speaker 2: take it back to the supermarket example, I guess you
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  Speaker 2: know muslibars, eg, they're gonna say natural on them. They
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  Speaker 2: could say one, you know, baked not fried whatever, and
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  Speaker 2: all of those things do make us think that is
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  Speaker 2: a great option. Exactly die organic Isle.
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  Speaker 1: They might say no added refined sugars, but it's like
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  Speaker 1: full of raw or something, and you'll be like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: but it's got no refined yeagar.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's really frustrating because it puts us in this position
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  Speaker 1: where we have to second guess everything and we shouldn't
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  Speaker 1: have to do that, but we are.
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  Speaker 2: How good's marketing?
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  Speaker 1: I love that.
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  Speaker 2: We will get back to that a little bit later
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  Speaker 2: on b But how do we actually go about figuring
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  Speaker 2: out who is ethical and who isn't? Because my sense
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  Speaker 2: is that companies probably won't have their homepage of their
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  Speaker 2: website with a big we are unethical, please invest with us.
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  Speaker 1: Oh no, I definitely do that. Yeah no, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: they definitely don't, and no one's going to go hey gi,
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  Speaker 1: So if you come and invest with us. We actually
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  Speaker 1: prioritize mining. Will Yeah, we're kind of evil, we love gambling.
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  Speaker 1: We actually are really into human trafficking, so come and
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  Speaker 1: invest with us. Not true. Sadly, I really wish that
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  Speaker 1: people had to disclose those things, kind of like, hey,
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  Speaker 1: there's gluten in this or not. But you bang on.
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  Speaker 1: We really need to do our research because there can
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  Speaker 1: be this lack of transparency that makes it so hard
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  Speaker 1: to figure out how a business operates. The other thing
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  Speaker 1: we need to establish is what we're actually comfortable with
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  Speaker 1: and what we're not comfortable investing in. So, for example,
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  Speaker 1: some people would hate to invest in companies who exploit
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  Speaker 1: their workers and animals, or who don't have a strong
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  Speaker 1: female presence at the top. But maybe they're less passionate
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  Speaker 1: about the environment, so they might not feel as bad
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  Speaker 1: about investing in fossil fuels. So it can be quite personal,
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  Speaker 1: and you need to work out what qualifies as ethical
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  Speaker 1: to you, because there's not actually one definition. Before we
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  Speaker 1: were recording this g we were sitting in my office
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  Speaker 1: and we were talking about, you know, my experience with
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  Speaker 1: clients and Zella is actually one hundred percent ethical investing.
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  Speaker 1: So we don't invest in fossil fuels. We just don't
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  Speaker 1: put it in client's portfolios because I genuinely believe that
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  Speaker 1: it is not the way of the future. They are
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  Speaker 1: not an unlimited resource. There are so many different ways
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  Speaker 1: that we can have positive impacts on the planet. And
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  Speaker 1: if I can put my clients in a position where
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  Speaker 1: they are supporting the world and themselves at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being an ethical and good financial advisor.
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  Speaker 1: But I have this conversation with every client during their
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  Speaker 1: fact find process. So we'll go through all of the questions,
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  Speaker 1: the bland ones that compliance make us ask yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: then all say at the end, what's your stance on
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  Speaker 1: an ethical investing? They'll say, oh, yeah, I'm an ethical investor.
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  Speaker 1: I'll be like, yes, g what's that mean to you specifically? Like,
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  Speaker 1: let's talk about it. Are you talking about renewables, are
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  Speaker 1: you talking about fossil fuels? Are we talking about animal products?
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  Speaker 2: Like?
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  Speaker 1: What is it? Is it gambling? Is it guns?
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  Speaker 2: Like?
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  Speaker 1: How does that actually impact you? And a lot of
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  Speaker 1: people haven't actually thought about the semantics of what is included.
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  Speaker 1: Because in the ASX Top two hundred, there are fossil fuels,
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  Speaker 1: there is gambling, there is tobacco. There are things that
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  Speaker 1: our country produces and invests in that you might not
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  Speaker 1: agree with, and we actually have complete control over what
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  Speaker 1: we invest in. So you might go to the Vanguard website,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: for example, and look at one of their portfolios and going, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I guess I want to buy this ETF. It's a
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: really good ETF. It's well known, but you know it's
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  Speaker 1: got something I don't like, but my friend invest in it,
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  Speaker 1: so I probably should. But they've got an ethical portfolio
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  Speaker 1: as well. So I think it's really important to understand
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  Speaker 1: that so many companies now have ethical options, but you
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  Speaker 1: just have to look for them because often they are
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  Speaker 1: slightly more expensive, and we'll get into this, and they
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  Speaker 1: do often have slightly different returns. Albeit we'll get into
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the stats of a little bit later because your stats girl,
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  Speaker 1: and you've got some really great stats about the performance.
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  Speaker 1: But back to me talking about my fact fine process
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  Speaker 1: with clients. I had this chat with a client the
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  Speaker 1: other day and I explained all of this, and I
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  Speaker 1: was like, obviously, for me, being who I am, live
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  Speaker 1: animal exports never ha no like hard no, like so
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  Speaker 1: hard no, it makes me sick. But I said you
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  Speaker 1: know that exists, arh rah, And she was like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I don't want any of that, but I guess mainly
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  Speaker 1: what I don't want is nukes.
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  Speaker 2: What nukes do suck. To be fair to the.
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  Speaker 1: Clients, like fair, I might just call my Russian friends
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  Speaker 1: and say sorry about that investment, no longer going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to make it. I've never actually invested in nukes,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm glad to fully comprehend her values and what
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  Speaker 1: she's up to. But that's why it's so important to ask,
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  Speaker 1: because you don't know someone else's stance on ethical. You
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  Speaker 1: don't know that they're a crazy vegan like me, who
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  Speaker 1: you know, is obsessed with animals and you know, cares
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  Speaker 1: a lot about the planet. They might just go yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like I want to be ethical, but like love salami, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know, protrudos my favorite food. Great, no problems. Like,
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  Speaker 1: We've all got different values, and that's what makes investing
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  Speaker 1: so beautiful, because you can construct a portfolio that's really
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  Speaker 1: reflective of your own personal values. And when I say
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  Speaker 1: I believe in these things, it is by no way,
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  Speaker 1: shape or form me pushing my personal beliefs on you,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: saying well, gee, you have to in saying that I
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  Speaker 1: genuinely don't believe that non renewalbles have a place in
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  Speaker 1: investment portfolio is moving forward. That's my personal view. If
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  Speaker 1: you don't like that, you don't actually have to be
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  Speaker 1: my client, gotcha. It's a choice. If you align to
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  Speaker 1: my values and you you buy into what I'm putting
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: on the table, cool, be my client. You don't like it,
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  Speaker 1: that is absolutely fine. I have so many great financial
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: advisor friends I can refer you to.
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  Speaker 2: So if we are wanting to invest in you know,
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  Speaker 2: non nuke companies, Yeah, how do how do we find
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  Speaker 2: that information? Or is it easier just to like go
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to a financial advisor like yourself, so who like sends
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: it all up for you? Or do you look in
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  Speaker 2: an your reports?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Like what does you coach? So you're right and your
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: reports are a good one. A good way of establishing
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  Speaker 1: the ethics of the company that you're looking to invest
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: in is to actually take a look at that annual reports.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: There's social impact reporting which will be in their annual reports,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: which you can actually review pretty easily through resources like
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yahoo Finance. So I find that to be a really
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: solid resource because it's so easy to understand you can
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: just key some stuff in and we'll split it back out.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: They provide sustainability ratings for a lot of Australian companies.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: You can also just talk to your financial advisor. I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: would ask in the she's on money community, because everybody's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: got an opinion in there in the best of ways.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: There are also resources out there like the Responsible Investment
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  Speaker 1: Association of Australasia who have an Investment Finder tool which
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: helps you find funds that are aligned to your goals
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  Speaker 1: and your ethical values. So there are lots of different
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  Speaker 1: ways to go about this. In saying that we've said
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: this before, a financial advisor might not be the cheapest
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: of ways to go about it, but it might be
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: about finding options that are akin to what you're looking for.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're looking for an ETF, start keying in
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  Speaker 1: ethical ETF instead and just see what that's made up
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: of and see how it's constructed and built. And when
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  Speaker 1: I say that, it does sound a little bit more complex,
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  Speaker 1: and I promise you I'm not trying to be complex.
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  Speaker 1: But when I say constructed, I mean what are the
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  Speaker 1: companies in there, what's it made up of? And are
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you going to review everyone individually or are you going
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: to go look at the portfolio manager. So something that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I do personally, and you know what, I'm not expecting
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: other people to do, but something I do is really
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: trace back the source ETF. Great, let's pretend it's called ETFA.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to go look at the companies in there
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  Speaker 1: and go, yep, okay, that that kind of makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: But why? And I want to understand who that manager is,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: So who put together that ETF, what are they like,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: where have they worked historically? And I think it's important
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: to understand them as well as it is your ETF.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: It's quite a complex process and you absolutely don't have
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to go through it, but our job G is to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: give you as much education and options as possible to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: make you feel confident with your investment journey. Probably also
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: a really good time to mention that we've got an
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: investment product coming out next month.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Tell us more.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I can't, but instead of having to see your financial advisor,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: which obviously costs thousands of dollars, and I've tried to
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: be as transparent about that as possible, but obviously everybody's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: situation is different. It's going to start at like nine
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to ninety five for actual real life Advice plus construction
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: nine dollars ninety five, nine dollars ninety five. Mmmm. Yeah,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Is good. I'm not meant to be
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: talking about it, and sorry to tear it if he's listening. Sorry,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: so sorry.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, let's move on. Impact investing. That's something
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: that came up a lot in my guest search as
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: pre show. Is that the same as ethical investing, No, sir.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Impact investing is basically a more proactive way of ethically investing.
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  Speaker 1: So it's taking it another step further. Instead of saying
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I just don't want those things in my portfolio, just
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: don't have them, you're actively sorting out things that can
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: have a positive impact moving forward. So where ethical investing
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: might see you avoiding companies who work with fossil fuels
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: or they're exploiting their workers, impact investing goes that step
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: further and sees you actively contributing to organizations or projects
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: or funds which generate measurable change in the environmental and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: social space, which I think is really exciting. And again,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: only you can decide what that means, because your impact
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: is yours alone, if that makes sense, So like I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: might go, oh, my gosh, I adore children. I really
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: want to support them. So for me, assets that aligned
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to supporting that value is more along lines of impact
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: investing as opposed to avoidant, which is when you're ethical
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and just avoiding things that you know aren't positive.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's really interesting.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: It's fun.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Is that Is that a big space? Is it popular?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Massive? It is massive because at the end of the day,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: we always say put your money where your mouth is right,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and like, obviously a dollar can't change the world. But
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: if we all started aligning our investments to what we
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: truly believed in instead of just going yep, cool, that'll work.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Like we can have measurable change. We can start changing
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the world. And I think that's really cool. It's like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, doing something for future you and future.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Buying it kinda cool, kind of cool, kind of cool.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Sidestep here, Vickid.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I love that name for me.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I know you do so amazing. Love that we're supporting
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the planet, looking to the future, helping the kids, ditching
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: the nukes.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean, you guys have to take this grain
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: of salt because I am that person that has a
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: keep cup, doesn't like eating animals, you know, has a
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: million pets like just you know, everything that we say,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and I've said this before needs to be taken with
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: grain of salt because your opinion is yours alone, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that's really beautiful. My opinion obviously on a podcast doesn't
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: mean it is the right thing for you either. I
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: think that's important to preface right. Like you like different
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: things than I like, vice versa doesn't mean that I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: have to accept it. But it's so nice to know
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that other people have different opinions and they can follow
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: their goals and their values and that's cool.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely a lot of people listening to this podcast, though,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: v they're here to make money, to look after our
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: cash money, correct, So what are the impacts of ethical
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: investing on our finances? Are we seeing good returns from it?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Or is it just so poor? But like, at least
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: we've done the good things, so I.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Think historically people have always thought that ethical investing might
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: not have as high returns, and it's been some somewhat true.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And the reason it's been somewhat true is ethical investing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: is more expensive. And the reason it is is because
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: usually those companies are more ethical therefore have higher fees
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: associated higher you know, costs over their head. Because let's
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: give a good example. We buy a T shirt, that
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: t shirt is made in Australia from people who are
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: being paid award rates. That's going to be cheaper than
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the T shirt you buy online for two dollars because
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it was made in a sweatshop overseas. Right, So when
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: it comes to ethical investing, there are higher costs associated
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: in saying that the returns more recently they've been great,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: they've been fantastic. You kind of do put a little
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: bit more on the table when it comes to fees,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: but that all kind of balances out with good returns
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and knowing that your money is actually performing well and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: also impacting the planet positively according to actually the RIAA's
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty benchmark reports. So that is the Responsible Investment
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Association of Osdrolation, which I mentioned before. Over the past three,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: five and ten year periods, Australian responsible investment funds have
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: outperformed mainstream investment funds. So by ethically investing, you're definitely
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: not throwing away your financial future, which is probably a
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: perception that a lot of us out there have because
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you go, all right, well, if you're compromising something you're
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: obviously going to lose, but you're not. It's positive for
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: everybody involved, But I also want it. This is my gripe,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: right and I've had this ranch in the office before,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and I know this isn't new for you to hear.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I get so frustrated when people say, oh, it's compared
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to the benchmark. Okay, what is the benchmark? Who set that?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: What is that benchmark made up of? And more often
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: than not, it's made up of the AX Top two hundred,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: which is the two hundred companies in Australia that are
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: like best performing, etc. But why are we comparing a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: ethical portfolio made up of renewables and things that are
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: great for the future and things that are going to
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: be far more sustainable in the long term to oil
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and tobacco and gambling and things that we don't agree with.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Like that's like comparing apples with oranges, And to me,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: it really frustrates me that a lot of the time,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the benchmark for ethical investing and the performance indicators will
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: be compared to that of non ethical investing, and that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: is not fair. So it's like comparing our friend Chloe Molloy,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: who's actually your friend. I just really like her. She's
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: an AFLW players Chloe, Yeah, shout out to her. But
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: it's like comparing her to a tennis player and expecting
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: that her performance would meet their criteria when at the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: end of the day, they have a completely separate way
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: of measuring performance and success about whether you're winning the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: game or not versus hers. Because HER's a team sport,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: that's an individual sport. There are so many differences, and
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's really unfair to compare the two because
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: it's apples with oranges. Yeah, you're right, they're both sports.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: They're completely different though, so thank you. So I think
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: it's really unfair to compare ethical investing to non ethical
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: investing and then use the non ethical investing benchmark to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: be like Ohun's set love Like no, sorry, we kick goals,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Like what are you talking about? So I think it's
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: just really important to understand. That's where my frustration comes from.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know if other people share this frustration. Maybe
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: it's just me. But to summarize all of this, yes,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you're right, ethical investing has had great performance over the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: last few years.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: That was the best speel I've ever heard. You are
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: was it about.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, did it make sense?
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Set Love, we kick goals? That was standing well, but.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It kind of makes sense, right, And I think I
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: get so frustrated when people are like, yeah, but it's
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: all investing. I'm like, yeah, okay, well it's all sport.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Like can you imagine telling a footy player that you
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: were comparing them to a tennis player. There'll be off
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: makes no sense, So we're not going to do it, Love, Okay, good,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: what's your next question?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Happy with that, Let's move on. So other platforms their
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: v that make it easier or funds out there that
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: make it easier for us to be investing ethically. So
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: in the group, for example, Raises Emerald account comes up
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: time and time again. People are like, yep, I'm doing
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: this because I'm doing the right thing for the environment
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: of the planet, etc.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah thoughts, ah, yeah, this is what I was talking
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: about before in a nonallusic way. I didn't know you
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: were actually going to call it out. But it's true.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Let's clarify here that Raises Emerald account is not actually
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: an ethical account. It is a socially responsible account. And
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: at no point have they ever ever told us anything otherwise.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: We've just assumed, right, So they've got their normal accounts,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: then they've got their emerald that must be the ethical one, right. Gee.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of green washing going on there,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and I'll get into that a little bit later, because
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: green washing makes me mad. As you know, green washing
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: is something that we all need to be very aware
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of because it happens time and time again. And that's
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: what I was referring to earlier when I said they're
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: using terms like socially responsible and emerald or it might
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: be a green portfolio, and everybody's just trying to make
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it seem a lot more ethical than it is, when
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: in reality they are still supporting life animal export and
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: that makes me mad. So when it comes to what
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: socially responsible investing is in comparison to ethical we've already
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: defined that socially responsible investing can often be thought of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: as like a philosophy to invest in, where investors make
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: a conscious effort to invest in companies that align with
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: their ethical ideologies. So it's not they're one hundred percent ethical,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: but they're like throwing around these terms that kind of
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: make you think ethical. Right, Yeah, good marketing, great marketing,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: perfect copywriting. Love that for them, But a common example
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: is not investing in companies that promote or produce products
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that are related to addictive substances, right like tobacco or gambling,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: But they might still invest in other things that don't
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: make sense. So for me, I think it's just so
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: important to understand what you are getting yourself into and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: not just assuming that it means that it's just really good.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So I don't get it. So what does what are
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: they saying with their social responsibility? Because I was looking
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: at their website before and I was like, it seems
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: like it's ethical, Like, as you said, their copywriting was magical,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: great marketing, but I really couldn't discern what they're actually
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: what they do with that Emerald account.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So more often than not, Like, don't get me wrong,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of the companies that they do have in
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that portfolio are what I would deem to be somewhat ethical.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But I think that the important thing here is ethics
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to me really really transcends not just what their business
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: promotes or produces, but also how they treat their workers
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: and if they pay award rates or not, or if
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they have overseas employees that they're not treating as well,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: so it kind of goes deeper than that. But then
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: on top of that, those big companies often have their
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: own investment portfolios. So would you be comfortable if I said, hey,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: G so company a ethical so great. They're a BCorp company,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: which means they are you know, chef's kiss, chef's kiss.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: They are chef's kiss. But also they have an investment
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: portfolio and it's made up of gambling and tobacco and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: things like that. Like, are they still a thickle?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: If they're generating returns from those things and pulling that
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: into their business, feel about that? I would say, no exactly.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: But shouldn't you know that? Shouldn't you be told that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: without having to do the deep dive that I do
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: as a psychotic financial advisor?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't we just be told that instead of like, oh,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: they're such a great business rarah. And to be honest,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure to become a B corp company you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: actually can't invest in those things. So maybe that's a
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: faux par on my behalf. It's just an example I'm using,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting what they're made up of and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: how that actually works.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Why is the world like this? Why can't it all
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: just be easy?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Mate? I don't know. I don't make the rules.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: With that vey. I think it is time for a
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: little bit of a break. But don't you worry, guys.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: We will be back to chat ethics and super greenwashing.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: We're going to tap back into that and we will
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: be discussing whether it's unethical for us not to be
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: investing ethically. Stick around friends, alrighty, be hugely passionate show today.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And you know how I'm at.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: We have hugely passionate conversations on our Facebook group, on
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: our YouTube account. Do there but newsletter?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You can tell I'm mad about this episode because I'm
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: actually talking a lot faster than I usually do. So
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I'm really sorry, but I'm also kind of mad.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to be mad about. To start off
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: this second half of the show. V Lord, talk to
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: us about superannuation. Is that something we can be doing ethically?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so great question. And you, my friends, have so
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: much control over your superannuation. There are lots of ethical
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: super funds emerging and at the moment, it is so
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: exciting to see this happening because I think it's helping
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: us put more of a priority on actually caring about
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: our superannuation because that now is something that we can
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: align to our values and our ethics and watch and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: track and be excited about and stuff, and like, I
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: just feel like I don't have that much control over it.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: 't worry about it later. Again, not all are created equally,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: so you do need to do your research into what
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: they actually invest in. And some of the major players
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in this space, I'm not going and be naming names
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: here because I do not think that that is there.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't align to my goals and values for a
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: number of reasons. Right, So first would be price. So
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: being ethical, yes it might cost you a little bit more,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: but it shouldn't cost you significantly more. And I do
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: genuinely think maybe we should get into this as another
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: episode because I do think that there are some super
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: players out there at the moment who are taking the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: mickey in a way to make sure that you know
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh great, I'm now with super fun to
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: X because they're ethical and they're run by women, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: they're for women. I'm sorry, why super for women? All
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, Like, should I not just have access
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: to the same investment portfolios and man has access to
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: to create my financial future. Like, what is different about
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: gendered super funds? What's that?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, but it makes me
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: angry because it's kind of like, sorry, investments actually completely
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: not gendered. Yes, I'm I guess speaking from a position
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: where I am the face of sheese on the money,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: but I'm not here saying that we need female specific products.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of like the pink tax. I genuinely
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: think they're putting a pink tax on a superproduct to
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: make it look more appealing and look a little bit
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: more friendly rhen. In reality, it's going to impact you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: worse because you're paying more fees and there's still the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: gender pay gap, gotcha.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So they're kind of capitalizing on exactly, and they're making
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you feel a little bit more.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Comfortable because you're like, oh, but it's female run and
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: lead and it's built for me. It's like, well, why
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: wouldn't any other super fun to be built for you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: with your priorities in mind? If we're being brutally.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Honest, interesting, maybe we should do an episode We will
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: because I may agree, yeah, and I think, well, that
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: really does come as a surprise to me, and I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: hadn't thought about that. I know who you were talking about, yep. Yeah,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: and it's not hard to know. It's not talking about interesting, no.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: And it also really frustrates me because I look at
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: these companies and that's why I'm not naming names, because
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it's genuinely not fair for me to do that at
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: this point. But I look at these companies and a
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: lot of their branding is around women and supporting women.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But then also if you get deep down into it,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, you don't you don't support women, Like, you're
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: not making this cheaper for us, You're not making this
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: easier for us. You've just got a beautiful like beautiful branding,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: great marketing, fantastic copywriting. But I just genuinely look at
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: it and I go, that's a bit icky to me.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: That that gives me the ick.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: George H once again. Why is the world like this?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But I also just get really mad
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: about it, and I feel like now we have got
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: cheese on the money, everybody can get mad about it
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and we can make a change for the better.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Fantastic stuff come okay, back to greenwashing, Yes, I really
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: ademic added dedicated part of the show to talk about it,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: even though it has infiltrated the chat earlier. Sorry, that
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: is fine. How is greenwashing impacting the share market?
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: So it's pretty good for brand to promote your efforts
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: in sustainability, social justice and animal rights because people like
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to hear that the brands that they're aligning themselves where
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: they're doing good in the world and actually having a
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: positive impact because of this. Lots of brands, as you
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, George, have capitalized on this and they're making
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the most of these quote green labels to enhance their reputations.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: This really frustrates me beyond belief. So similarly, some companies
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: are starting to do the same with some quote ethical funds,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: which when we actually look at the frame print, they're
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: not as ethical as we'd assumed they actually would be
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: or expected from those businesses.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Which makes us very frustrated. This gives me the uhha.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But how then, how do we cut through that jargon,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: cut through them getting jump?
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: How do we do it? How do we do it?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It's a very good question, and I wish it was
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: easier than it actually is. But essentially, what we need
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to do is be aware, We need to know that
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't privy to marketing tactics. So
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: just being conscious that some companies will try and present
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: themselves as ethical or green when really they're not is
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: really important. And that's why I'm so passionate about understanding
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: how to read a PDS. So PDS is a product
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: disclosure statement, and you don't need to read the whole thing.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: It is a very long, very wordy Usually the words
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: are extra small, so like at least ten point texts
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: like they're never like twelve times in your Roman, really
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: easy to read, like say, like they just don't make
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it easy. They make it look really overwhelming. I'm convinced,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and this is this has absolutely no credibility to it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: This statement is probably wildly inaccurate, but I'm convinced the
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: smaller the text, the more intimidating it looks to read.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So therefore you're more likely to not read it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Oh something, Yeah for sure.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what they're doing with PDS is But
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: that is where you're going to find the nitty gritty
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: of what they who gets paid what to have that investment?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: There where it was picked from what the fees are,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: what the additional fees are because you can't just rely
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: on the website to say, oh, it's ten dollars great. Oh,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and by the way, there's an admin fee of two dollars,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and then there's an administration fee which is different to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the admin fee that's fifty cents every single day. And
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: then it blows out and you didn't know. But then
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: if you question them, they'll be like, oh, but it
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: was in our terms and conditions you agreed to this,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Like oh, but they were tiny and I didn't want
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to read them. I get it, but we need to
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: learn to read these and this is where we need
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: to learn to just scan them. And I guess it's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a bit high mighty of me to saying, oh, we
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: need to learn to read them, and I haven't shown you.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: So maybe I'll do like an Instagram story of something,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: just going hey, cool, this is how I do it
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: and TLDR. Usually I just use control F, so I
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: look up fees and just control F type in fees,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and then in the pds PDF, because that's a mouthful,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: it will then come up with fees and I'll go
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: straight to that part of the document to read it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And I'm obviously crazy, you know, I do read it
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: back to front. But I think if you know someone
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: who's not a financial advisor is looking at it, they
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: should really do that and look up what it's actually
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: constructed of and why they've made that decision.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: That's a good hack.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Following on from that and my rant about PDFPDSS on
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a larger level, there definitely needs to be tied a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: regulation in this space, and there needs to be a
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: standardized version of what qualifies as ethical, Like what I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: was saying before about the organic thing, like why can't
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: we just implement something like that. That's if you meet
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: all of these criteria, you get the little badge and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: people can look for the badge and they can feel
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: confident in the asset that they're purchasing. Instead of companies
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and funds just being able to give people the impression
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that they're ethical with sneaky advertising. That frustrates me beyond belief.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: So put simply, for the time being, we really just
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: need to be doing our research and asking a lot
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of questions.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: There should be like an ethical stamp like that.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, organic one, right, Like you can't use organic in
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Australia unless you've met that criteria. You don't use pesticides
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and you don't do this, and you don't do that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: and all of that other fun stuff.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Do you know you might not be able to answer this,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: but is that a space that is improving and people
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: working to they are?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I think they are, But it's very hard to make
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: it transparent when the share market encompasses so many different
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: companies and asset classes, and it breaches into international investments
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and it's a very complex space.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which, yeah, that makes sense as to why it's
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: not regular and the international stuff.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like, let's just compare Cobs and Wollies
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: for a second. It's like, great, they're two supermarkets, but
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: then Audi comes into play and they all have different
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: business models. Are we asking them to then change their
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: entire business models to be similar?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Is that fair? Is that?
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: How do we do that? How do we eat?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yank? It's a big chat.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: It's big chat we can't have today.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, last question for you here, and I'm excited
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: for your answer. Is it unethical for us not to
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: invest ethically?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: That's a hard question to answer.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It's a hard question to ask. It was quite a mouthful.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well that's why it was hard not because if
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: there responds around yeah, sorry, I think it's definitely personal preference.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: There's no right, there's no wrong. I don't think it's
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a bad thing if people are like, yep, but that
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: aligns to my values. Like I'm someone who just wants
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you to be happy and have all the options available
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to you. And if you've looked into it and you said, nah,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: like I'm still here, like cool, Like I really really
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: genuinely don't mind. I wouldn't be so harsh as to
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: say that, as a lot of people just don't fully
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: understand what they're investing in, so I can't make a judgment.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't pass judgment because it is not
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: my place. My place is to educate you on what
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: options exist. I will share my opinion and what I do.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: But if you came to me and said, hey, all
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I invest in is BHP, I'd be like, all power
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: to Yeah great, I don't mind at all, because that's
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: your choice and your values. And as a person who
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: genuinely believes deeply in understanding people's values, it's not my
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: place to put mine on you.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Good episode today V to recap we've learned ethical investing
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: is a great way of aligning your financial decisions with
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: your values. It also means you can make an amazing return,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: which is a huge money win. And we do need
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to be really mindful of greenwashing. I feel like that's
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the main theme of today's episode, because sometimes companies and
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: funds can be a little bit naughty and not be
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: transparent in this space. Hopefully that's changing, but sounds like
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: it's going to be a long, hard road for that
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to happen.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I would agree. V.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I think that is all we have time for today.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, but just before we head off, we'd like to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Ray
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Islander people's, the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: sharing and for caring for the land which we are
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to eldest past and present,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and to our kindness.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: The advice shared on Cheese on the Money is general
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: not be relied upon to make an investment or a
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: financial decision, and we promise. Victoria Devine is an authorized
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietor Limited ABN three
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: four one three two four six Street five seven AFOSL
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: three three nine one five one. And a big thank
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: you to our big team of audio engineers.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah you said it weird that it just used to be.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: You and I are sitting on the floor in one
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of my spare bedrooms and now we say things like
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: audio engineers and producers know over weird Flex, We're growing,
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• 34:39
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• 34:44
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• 34:51
  Speaker 1: nice commentary around, just people thinking we're annoying recently.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I mean they're not wrong to be flo.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And you know, like I'm happy for this to be
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: in the podcast. Do you know I don't read our
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: podcast reviews because I genuinely think if you're not willing
• 35:04
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• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of it's like anonymous goal nine nine nine. You're like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: if you can't put your name to review, cool, but
• 35:12
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• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I will absolutely take that on and try my hardest
• 35:17
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• 35:20
  Speaker 1: single way possible. But my dad does read the reviews
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: and then he calls AND's like, oh my gosh, you're okay.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Dad, I didn't even read that, but I
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: didn't see it, But thank you for bringing it to
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  Speaker 1: my attention.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: If you do have to Daddy, ded if you do
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: have feedback for the show, guys.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Where podcast at She's on the money dot com dot au,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: we are always open to it, and to be honest,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I try and take it on wherever possible. Obviously, feel
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: like Victory's voice is annoying. Sorry, I can't do a
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: lot about that. Oh je King also annoying. Yeah, sorry
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: about that. But I think it's really important to just
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: point out like we're just two girls who are genuinely
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: passionate about financial literacy, trying to do the right thing
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: and trying to grow our community because we want to
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: change financial literacy in Australia. It's not us going, oh, okay, cool,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: we have a podcast, like, we genuinely believe in this,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and we know given the size of our community now,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: but we're having an impact and that's so cool.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Georgia absolutely, and sorry to anyone who complains about my life.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's probably in the reviews that I
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: don't read, is it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Nah, don't read the reviews. Don't read the reviews. Anyway,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: we will see you on fridayyy by