Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Choose your hard: Science-backed strategies to thrive in a difficult world, with Emeritus Professor Grant Schofield

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Choose your hard: Science-backed strategies to thrive in a difficult world, with Emeritus Professor Grant Schofield · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Emeritus Professor Grant Schoolfield, Welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Well, pleasure to be back on. It's my favorite pod
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: just for listening in general. You know, I've got a
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: few favorite episodes that I've talked about.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, tell our listeners what is an emeritus professor
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and why have you taken that step?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I just have stopped my full time substantive commitment to
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the university. I like the idea of the university, the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: theory of the university. I just felt it harder to
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: work in that space full time and achieve what I
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: want to do. Like I think your twenty five thirty
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: years of science and research and you know, possibly having
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: no practical impact on the world ex me a bit.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: So I want to do more pre prevention is cure,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: but I want to maintain my academic role in the
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: bits that still excite me, which are really postgraduate supervision,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: working with right young people, and have a few of
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the funded research projects that keep me going. So that
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: sort of allows you to do that, sort of like
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a lifetime library card membership or something.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because because actually I have just had because I
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: finished my pH d a year now, they give you
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a year of access to the UNI and all of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: this stuff and night it's just all gone.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: So I should emails.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: But more importantly, I've lost the ability to access research papers,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: so now I have to start using zihope again.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which you feel a bit bad about it. I mean,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the economic publishing industries are broad. It's you know, the
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: most profitable industry by income and world.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: This is astonishing thing. So you know when they go
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: for Ibadar and all that sort of earnings by income,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: they do better than Google.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So yeah, I mean it's a scam. And the
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: way that they don't pay anyone really and then they
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: you know, billions of dollars of research projects. You hand
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: over literally over your IP to some random general and
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: then they then they charge, then they charge the university's
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: back an astonishing amount of money. Just to put that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: in perspective of it, this isn't really where we want to start,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: but New Zealand University is for a while this year
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: weren't getting Elseevia because they were charging each university one
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars a year for access just to the
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: elseevir general. It's like, well that's a hell of a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: subscription a hundred grand a year per university.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, do you think, wow, And if they're doing
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: that all run under world.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: How much money are they Jesus, I had no idea
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: That is crazy, but you think about the secularity of it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So the universities themselves are conducting the research, they're often
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: supporting the funding or they're getting funding, and then they're
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: going through and reviewing for these guys for free and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: doing inditorial boards and that sort of stuff. And then
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: they're signing away their IP that they owned to the
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: general and then they're paying back to get it back
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: into the university. It's ridiculous.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: That is that is quite preposterous, but Jesus, that's a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: good business model for the journals.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Part of the reason.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Why you become emeritus professor is obviously you wanted to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: do more stuff that's having an impact, whether it's through
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: PreCure your business with Luise, which is great by the way,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: look up pre Cure pr E k U r E
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: kind of changing the way that health is looked at
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: in New England and beyond.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: But also you get to write another book which you
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: have just published.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I had seen an earlier version of this book and
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: is it is it not officially published.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: It's it's it'll be on Amazon from when you hear
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: this podcast, so you can look it up choose your heart.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and a great read and absolute great read.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Lots of overlap obviously, because a lot of our stuff overlaps,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: lots of overlap with the stuff that I talk about
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: as well. But I think I want to start a segue.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: You you you talk about is it masogi? Yeah, Massogi
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: is a we've sort of borrow it from the Japanese
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Shinto religion as sort of tradition of once a year
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: doing something that's really difficult for that's part of having
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a good life.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: And so we've changed the masogi to be just do
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: something really hard once a year, and we've put three
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: caveats on that. So the questions you have to ask
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: yourself are one, does that thing scare the ship out
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: of you? And if the answer is no, then you
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: can't get it's not a MESSOVII. If it's is you
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: cont to the next question? Is it specific so you
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: actually know that if you've completed it or not? A
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: not being an asshole is not specific enough? It might
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: be hard it might be it might be a big
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: thing for someone, but it's not really a specific thing.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So the answers that it excuse as specific. Then you
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: can proceed to the last question, which is just a
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: reality check. Doesn't break the laws of physics, because you
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: might want to saw like a bird, but you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: jumping from the tenth floor.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, keeping it in, keeping it a lot rather physics.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, let's the ship out of you and it's specific,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: but yeah, kill you. So I know you're currently right
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: in the depths of your own personal massogi.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I am in a masogi, which is actually a nice
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: segue into your book, actually, because I am nigh ninety
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: hours into a one hundred hour fast, and interestingly I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: have found it easier doing it this way, just going
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: complete cold turkey.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Then I did that. I've previously done the fasting mimicking
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: diet for five days. You'll be familiar with that. Volter
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: long ago for the listeners.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Cancer researcher really knew that fasting was really good for
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: his cancer patients, but a lot of them couldn't do
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: it because they were losing weight.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: So we created this fasting mimicking.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Diet that there was a little bit of calories of
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: specific ones, no certain amino acids and things like that,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and it was to trick the body into thinking it's fasted.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And I've actually found that this one has been easier,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and just because of no food. I found that on reflection,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the nibbling away, having a little bit of food here,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and that just keeps your hunger going.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Ah, right, that's interesting. Yeah, I've tried, but I thought
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I'd definitely prefer that the full hole. Although it's a
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: fair commitment, right.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: It is a fair commitment. Do you know what I
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: find has helped.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I took some key tone salts to push me into it,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and I've been wearing a continuous key tone monitor.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Have you seen these?
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I saw some data the other day. You're
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: many well up into the wherever the point five and
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: under the world.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So I've been in nutritional katosis from aby. I think
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: it was about twenty four hours. I went into it,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: pushed in by the key tone salts. I found they
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: when I was taking them just on an overnight fast.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I was because I was having a little experiment with it.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: They would release key tones for about two hours. You'd
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: be in katosis and then you'd pop back out of it, right,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: So they're a little temporary thing.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: But the reason I'm doing this, you know about this just.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: For the listeners, is that I have a preliminary diagnosis
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: which has to be followed up with a PET scan
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: of cardiacs arcoidosis, which is a pretty nasty auto immune
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: disease of the heart, where basically these immune sales and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: granul loans I think they are they basically scar your
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: heart and uh, it's it's it's not it's not a
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: good disease. So while I'm waiting for the pet scan,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I thought I'd get on the front foot and do
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: this fast. The idea to reset my immune system, to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: do system wide autopogy and reduce inflammation. So tell our listeners,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: because you write about fasting, you've done fasting.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: This is your wheelhouse.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Tell this is about what is autopogy, what's a muto
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: hormone hormesis? And and why would what I'm doing theoretically
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: be of benefit? And then why would that a prolonged
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: fast be of benefit to the general population, particularly people
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: are fifty and above.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, well, festival, congratulations on the fasting. And it's
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: always a concern when you get a medical diagnosis and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you don't exactly know when it's going to stop. I
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: guess as part of your concern rights that you don't
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: want to have those immune if you've got an immune
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: condition where your immune system is attacking essential parts of
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: your body, would be good if that didn't continue.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: That's what you're thinking, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah, basically the
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: immune system reset for cleaning from that widespread atoplogy.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think it's worth taking a step back
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: and thinking about the human I suppose it's a metabolic
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: orchestra that needs to be There's a lot going on.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes somethings are high and some things are low,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: and sometimes other things start playing and other things need
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to go down again than you know, ketones are good
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: or bad, or insulin and inflammation are good or bad.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: They're all they all have a sort of concerto that
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: comes together. And you know, I suppose the healthy human
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: condition is that that you're eating. And because all that
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: was available to humans and mostly in history was whole
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: food and water, then that would push up insulin and
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: glucose marginally, and that sort of pushes this whole anabolic
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: system it's inflammatory, it's growth, it's cell division. You know,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: all of those things are obviously incredibly useful, but equally
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: there's there's a time when that's not happening and we're catabolic,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: where we're not having food coming in. And for historically
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: that was just every day, part of every day for
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: humans because eating three meals a day almost not eating overnight.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Food wasn't always available. It was seasonal. So this variation
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: and availability and so that catabolic system where key tones
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: rise that we talk about, it's really the primary indicator
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: that you're able to now stop cell division and start
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to deal both internally with cells. So that's the lysosome
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: as the component of the cell that is activated during
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that period of non food and it's like a little
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: internal vacuum cleaner. It's rummaging around them cleaning up organells.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: But you know, a primary job in the cell is
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: that it starts to recycle mitochondria, fragmented mitochondria, which you
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: know there's thousands of these little organizes and the cells
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: that are of course responsible for all of your energy
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: production of I mean, it's an astonishing I think it's
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: like there's one second in one cell there's something like
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: twenty three billion rolls of a electron transport chain, which
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: is what they're in these mitochondria. There's just an incredible
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: amount red. Yeah, yeah, there's more, there's more. There's more
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: roles of mitochondry electron transport chain in a day in
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: your body than there are stars in the universe, by
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: a magnitude of fifty thousand or something. It's it's there's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: just the magnitude of mitochondrial energy production is just beyond
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: us really in terms of numbers, and so you want
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that to be functioning well. And of course those those
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: things where out they get frankmentted, they get damaged, and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: they need to be recycled. And you know, the primary
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: job of being without energy and fasting is to mitochondrial
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: mito hormesis. So it's you're just stressing those We recycle
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: some of the old ones through the lysosome and regenerate new,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: more functional ones. And I think it's a tremendously important
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: part of things. And then also the lisson, when it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: done internally, it goes to the cell will act extra
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: cell early as well and start to do other things
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: around the body, which I don't think we're sure of.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So that entire process called autopogy is part of what
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: makes humans and all animals functional. And the sort of
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: hypothesis of the modern world is that, Yeah, you go
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: into the local shopping mall, the food hall, and you
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: measure keytnes randomly off anyone and they zero. They never
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: man of those signals. But then you start following all
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of those people around past the food home and overnight,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: and virtually all of them never exhibit those ketogenic signals.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: So it's not about being in a ketogenic diet. It's
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: just simply that the natural orchestra of human metabolism is
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: rolled in and out of of having these little key
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: tones present as signaling molecules for cleaning up. And I
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: think we figured to realize that. And then I think
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: what you've done, which is it's nearly it. Did you
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: choose one hundred hours because it's like one zero's rights
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: around number? Is that how you're doing?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it was a It was a me and
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: of mine had actually because because I'd done previously a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: five day fast and then with this, I was thinking
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Dago four day water fast and then a med and
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: m's talking about one hundred hour fast. I just I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: just like the concept. It's kind of four days under bit,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, because I went for that to make it
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: into the morning of the fifth day, which is what
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I thought I could do.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Ah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like one.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Hundred and twelve or twenty four or so. Yeah.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm toying with the idea because it's seven pm tonight,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: so I'm toying with the idea of trying to get
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: it through tomorrow morning because I knew you'd done a
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: five day fast, and I'm like, can't let that fucker
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: beat me.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Well, we do one. We've done one for the last
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: sort of several years, and we're doing it on the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: first Monday and July. And the reason I chose the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: first Monday July is sort of to your point of
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: immune system reregulation, and so I feel for me, the
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: major benefit it's not so much about just that occasional
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: ketogenet signaling. I get that anyway the way I eat
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: on my exercise, but I think an extended period and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the sort of practonical work's pretty strong on this is
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the immune system. There's a lot of white cells, T
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: cells and whatnot floating around that have been around for
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a while, and it might be good if there was
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: some sort of what we call apoptosis, some cutting off
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: of the less functional immune cells. You know, they have
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to do a lot these immune cells. You want them
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: to better pick up that condition. And I think that
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: five day fast allows for that sort of process that
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: your immune system really gets actually gets pushed back a
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: bit because you actually end up taking a bunch of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it away, but it's the sort of lower after a
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: third maybe and then the regeneration will be stronger immune faction.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I think probably the refeeding, although I'm a pathific refeeder,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: which we're talking about in the same I think the
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: refiner can really help with that. Thank you.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is this is the whole drive of mine,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: is to to to kill off those dysfunctional cells, the
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: T seventeens.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: That are that are involved.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And so obviously when I got this diagnosis that they
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: had a big deep dive on it, and there's certain
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: immune sales like the T one T seventeen that are
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: involved in it. So I'm like, okay, so fasting is
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: definitely the way I head to have that macro autophogy
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and and killing off of those slightly dysfunctional sales kill
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: all the inflammation and then the refeeding.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: So interestingly, so the refeeding I've been.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I've got myself some acromancia probiotics, have got some butuia
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: as well, because what I want to do is just
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: before I eat, is whack those into my body and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to give the substrate for the good bugs that I want.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And then I'm going to be bringing in.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Lots of fiber resistant start over the next few days,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: a bit of apple sider vinegar for the actate as well,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: just to try and fertilize the garden properly. Because I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: think a lot of our listeners won't know. Ground is
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about eighty percent of your immune system resides in your gut,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: right because it's a big interface between the outside world
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: and the inside world, particularly the colon where we're digesting
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: all of our food, and so those that microbiome is
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: really really key and I think plays a big role
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in autoimmune conditions.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've got a really good medical reason to
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: do this now, So I congratulate your attention to detail
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: on that. I sort of it'll be interesting to why
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: don't we going to make a stick to the start
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: of the fast, like going into it both psychologically and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and you know, nutritionally, how you prepared for that? I mean,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: first of all, I'm I think I've found this going
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: into the fast every year, even though I've done it
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: lots of times, I seem to have low selfieff because
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: they are like, oh shit, this is going to be brutal.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I've got I really got any chance of doing this?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Just so why am I doing this? You know you're
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: rethinking you love choices? Is there the thing was there
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: to think? Were you?
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, looks so very interesting, right.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And I was actually talking to Oscar the other day,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: my little boy, about about motivation. When when when motivation,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: internal motivation, intrinsic motivation is there, it's a lot easier,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is Oscar? Should I say this to the podcast? My
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old and I has a girlfriend and all
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: of a sudden his room is freaking tidy, And I'm like,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: isn't it interesting that intrinsic motivation and autonomy that drives it?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: And so for me, yeah, yeah, I was going to
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: just gone fucking hell because I wake up with hunger
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: paints right and have to push out my breakfast deliberately.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, this is going to be hard.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: So I use my bathroom mirror, as you know, as
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of my bathroom mirror, so right,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: or it had one hundred hours, right, and then beside it,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I drew her coffin just to remind me that this
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: is to keep me out of the.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Clutches of the grim reaper. Right, and I've got I've
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: got to count down.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like a prisoner every nine and then i go
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in and I'm taking off and I'm like, now at
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: seventy hours, I'm not at sixty blah blah blah. So
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: so psychologically, you know when there's a when there's a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: big intrinsic purpose. And the time I was hungry, anytime
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I'm hungry, I'm going that's great because my body is
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: starting to go into autophogy. The more the hunger, just
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: just bring it on, right, bring it on, because there's
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: a there's a purpose behind.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: So I think that's really important.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I've also done a bit of a Mito hormesis stack,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: which again will will play into some of the stuff
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that you talk about in your boot boots. So I'll
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: kind of creating a well no, no, no, no, I
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: haven't I didn't take any of those. But what I've
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: done is I'm doing saunas every day. I'm doing I'm
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: doing cold exposure because I want to increase my heat
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: shock proteins right the which you can tell about what
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: they do and how they help with this whole autophogy.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: But I'm also doing CrossFit every day, right.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: It's getting progressively harder, Like yesterday was fucking brutal, brutal,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: but I I'm just starting to modify because I don't
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: want to.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: I was really interested, actually, like, would that like massive
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: anaerobic session yesterday?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Would that take me out of catosis because of the
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: DRIVERO genesis genesis or not?
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: No?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't because I am It was more. It was
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: more of a lifting session, you see the one the
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: day before. I avoided that because at the end we
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: did it, it was like a twenty minute as hard
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: as you possibly can on an ergometer. I just jumped
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: in and did twenty minutes his own too, because I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: thought that might well push me above and I was
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: looking at my key tool thing.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So I never came out of kittoxis, which is interesting.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: But so why grant would I stack onto this?
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: What would be the benefit of me.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Doing sauna, cold exposure and exercise as well to throw
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: in on top of the diet.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll cell little resiliency building at all all levels.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: And I think the hot and the cold is a
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: good way to do that. I suppose I'm also in
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: desigone two. In the fast, a bit of I would
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: do a bit of strength training easy, yeah, a bit
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: of growth for mode or something, and just keep maintaining
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: the reduced the chance to the muscle mess loss, which
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: is again that's what you're fighting against, the end gain anything. Yeah,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I personally, in my own experien it's with wearing a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: key tone, measuring keytones, and the long fast is that
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty glucose dependent in hard sessions and not in
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: easy sessions. And I my glucose went up to ten
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: point two million miles or something during a hard session
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and a fast and kick me out a keytosis. So
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I stopped doing that. Yeah, it's just like the lover
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: is just dumping glucose handover first to cope with the stress.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And I think that stress is probably a little bit
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: too much. Remember the fast is stressful already, and I
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: think for me, I don't know if I think people
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: respond to this in different ways. But by the time
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I get to the point you are at now, I'm
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: starting to waver quite a bit. And the wavering for
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: me is a sort of jitteriness of sympathetic activation. So
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I lose as I go through the fast I generally
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: start scared. I get over the first evening and the
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: first behavioral aspect, and then I come amazingly good, very quickly.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I'm into katosis within twelve hours, I'm feeling great. I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: feeling really smart, which is obviously good for the species.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: If your tent stupid when you were fasting, that would
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: be bad. But after, you know, on that third night,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: going into the fourth night, my sleep quantity and depth
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: of sleepers heavily reduced, and I'm quite jittery, and I
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: sort of have put that down to the I've tried
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: to make my lay explanation for that is that you know,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: if a well bush cheeky will pass in the middle
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: of the night, I'd leave up and call it. I'd
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: be ready to go. But yeah, I and I also
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: for me, by the end of that, you know, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: that to have quite a lot of food fantasy going on,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: which was completely disappeared before that, So you know, for
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: that first three days, I'm not thinking about food. I'm
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: not hungry. It's an amazing thing. I'm feel released from that,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: which is really liberating. But by that sort of fourth night,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I I mainly sort of get into things like Minton cheese.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: That's what's like. It's just, you know, like I randomly
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: find myself daydreaming about medicin cheese. Hence why my exits
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: have been not very good in the past.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Because.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: You're going to enjoy this, right, I've got a What'sapp group,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I've got lots of watch out but on one with
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: some of their Tomain that I went to university with,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: there's favors that canab are still on this what'sapp group.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: And I had said to the Boise, this is the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: other night. I'm halfway through my hundred hour fast and
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I'm buying the feed gut full of food photos and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: burgers and all this stuff.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: So I'm laughing away at that.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And then i was in the sauna and it was
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: like eight o'clock at night and I'm in the sauna
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and then Oscar, I've we've got a barrel sona which
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: is outside, and Oscar and CARNI came up to the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: sauna in streaks of laughter.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: With a a delivery or or you know, one of
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: those food delivery things of a Betty's Burger and from
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: GMS in Hull in the UK.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: So my may not contend with that sort. I wonder
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: can you order delivery or Uber Eats internationally got on
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: knew where I lived and find that the closest burger
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: joint that delivered and got me a burger sense all
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: the way from the UK was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, but be.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Funny of the sympathetic activation and Jannison, No, I haven't.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Actually people don't, but you know, so people responded different wives.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I haven't had it. And I've been tracking
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: my key tones and very.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Conscious of not the exercise not putting me out of katosis,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: but but for me adding the heat and the cold
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: is just an extra little nudge of stress on the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: system and the release of heat chock proteins which I
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: know play a functional role in scavenging inside the sale
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and cleaning up all the cellular jobs and stuff. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: so that that's been my drive of doing that.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Plus also I suppose it also gives you something to
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: do because I think without food, you forget how much
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: of your dye has taken up with the rituals around eat.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I've played golf twice this week as well, has gone
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to cross it and bean and so on. As I'm
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: just like, i haven't done much work this week, but
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I've been keeping myself busy for this. But so let's
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: let's let's going to go into your book and to
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: get because there's lots of this stuff in the book, guys, right, So.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: The whole thing about is about choose your heart.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: You know, your concept is life, life is hard whatever
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: you do.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: If we take the easy path of comfort.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And life's going to be hard because you're going to
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: get lots of chronic disease and be shipped and physical
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and mental health issues. Or if you go the other way,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the stuff that we've been talking about a little bit,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: then life is hard, but we'll be better in the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: long run. So you talk about seven truths within the thing.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So it's seven sort of buckets to focus on. The
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: first one is move or rust. So talk to our
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: listeners about why movement matters and what sort of things
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: that they should be focusing on and why.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, well, let's just proceed that with one bigger truth.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: And I think you and I are really the major
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: advocates in this part of the world for you know
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this by comfort and having us effect and then maybe
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: choose your hard is. I spent my whole life in
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: public health, and I think public health plays in to
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the sort of stupidity of the pharmaceutical and procedure based
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: medical system. Is that just do little things. It's it's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: all going to be a right, you know, the ridiculous
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: word of moderation whatever. That even means you don't have
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: to try hard to be healthy. And that might have
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: been true in the world that we used to live in,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: that you didn't have to make any actual effort, but
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the extent of the mismatch is such that unless you
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: make a major effort to actually prioritize healthy things and
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: do that, then it's not going to work out for you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And that's the majority of the population. Ninety percent of
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: us had one or more features of the metabolic syndrome.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: We can expect a decade or more of disability in
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: our life, a third of which we're going to need
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: one on one care. These are the brutal realities.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: That's that's what i'd up a clicking on because I
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: looked at this recently. The average Australian spends ten to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: twelve years of their life riddled with chronic disease.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I think it's pretty similar in New Zealand and what
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: did you say? A third of that as.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Good as one on one here?
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Wow?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which not only robs all your kids of their inheritance,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: but the h that's true. Yeah, But you know, like
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: it's a quality of life that's that no one wants
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: now and volunteers for. And so you know, there's every
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: way is hard here. It's hard, as you say, it's
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: hard to be in shaped, it's hard not to bend shape,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and it's just the if it goes in. And I've
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: sort of thought about this in my whole life really
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that you know, your ma as well have a high
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: performance life and the sense that you have to put
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: the work in to start with, but at least it's
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: on your terms. You get to have control, really more
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: fun if you like to start with what's still going
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: to be had, but it might be on your terms
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and you might have nearly the resources, so you know,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: just you know, just on the pure laziness, emails or
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: choose you have it's great?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Can I just jump in there that I think it's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a real important I've been thinking about this a lot, Right,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: is that for me, there's a couple of levels to this,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and and you know you can view this through the
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: lens of stoicism as well.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: The first level is actually just.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Understanding that that life is actually going to be hard
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and life is not supposed to be a better Roses.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: It's it's that's it's just accepting.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's the first level that there is there's
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be challenges, and that the next level is
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: embracing it. Right is actually, as the Stoics tell us
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to you know, embrace these challenges. This is every trial
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you FIUs, you should say to yourself, for this is
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: what I've treated for this is my discipline.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: And and that's for me.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: The next level, which and then the third level is
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: amor fatty, that love of feat no matter what it is,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to just embrace it. When the universe hits you with
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: a massive ship sandwich like I've had recently, Like how
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: do you move from accepting to actually embracing that and
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: then just going well, hey, it's fit, and why would
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I want to be any different. There's this crack on
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I've shown chosen to view this as a test from
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the universe. The universe going to me. All right, so
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: with through open heart surgery, you got through that, Okay,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: how about this one.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Help the ante, right, and so it's like it's a challenge.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: It's a worthy challenge.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I it's had to know how I would
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: respond to your condition because it hasn't happened to me,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: but like you would. I really ad by the way
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you're doing that, and I think you're doing exactly the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: right way because you can think what you like and
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: get all pissed off or think it's some fear. But
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: that's a part that there's no good outcome on that
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: path either.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's this kind of adpic titius is everything
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: has two handles, and the handle that you pick it
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: up with determines the weir. So there's the handle of
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the when something happens to you, you can pick it
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: up with the handle of being the victim and feeling
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: sorry for yourself and all that, and that makes it
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: fucking heavy, or you pick it up with a handle
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: that this is just a test of my character and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: something that I should embrace and that makes it later.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also your way you've faced it is with
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a high degree of agency, and I think that's the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: other point of a sort of choose your herd approaches. Yes,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: you're choosing agency over this, and you can. Yeah, all
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: of the you know, the the social sort of determinists
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: people around health, especially in public health. They're like, well,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you know, the poor people find it harder and people
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: with this find it harder. And that's all true, But
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: you can't if you're in that category. You can't be
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: thinking in that way. There's no way out that way.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That's that's some good and you can't. You're literally even
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: if things are against you because you were born into
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: a family that they've add any money, you've never got
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: a proper good education, you know, the government treated you badly,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. You know, those can all be true,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: but it can also be true at the same time
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: that you are not facing that as a victim. You're
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: facing that as someone with agency, and I think without
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: that you've got no actual chance. So this is not
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: meant to be condescending, but that's just the way it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: is now.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's huge, and I know you talk about
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: it in your section and Meaning and Purpose, you kind
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: of get into this a little bit. But that agency,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you know, for me getting that preliminary whether cardiac surgeon
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: are the cardiologists is I think you have this.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: We need to do a pet scan.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: But showed me the heart and I was like, fucking hell,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: there's something wrong there. I could see it on the MRI.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: But after you know, a day of going right, so
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I go, okay, so let's look into what it is.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: What's the outcome? Right, and then what's the treatment for this?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And then number one coming to terms with I'll probably
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: never be competitive from an athletic perspective every again, so
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I'll focus on golf, right, And then.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: It was like, right, so what I do about this?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So rather than sitting moping around, I'm like, well, what
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I could do here is get on the front foot
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and do the five day fast to just help my
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: body as much as I possibly can. But that I
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: think that agency in general, I think that plays in
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: massively psychologically. And you know, we know this whole cycle
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: neuroimmunology piece is very very powerful.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I think the sort of public health
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: policy side has completely dispensed with trying to help people
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: with agency. In fact, it's gone the other way. And
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: so it's not your fault. And that might be true,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: it's not your fault, but by it's it's for sure
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: it's your responsibility. Yeah, so yeah, there's Yeah, it's not
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: your fault, but it's definitely your responsibility. I say that
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: all the time in Mental Health Week that I do.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It might not be your fault where you're at the moment,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it's you. If it's not your responsibility, no one else
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: is going to care. Yeah.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I love that fault versus responsibility. Yeah, that's very cool.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And all right movement, right, yeah, sorry for that, for
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that that that was my fault.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: But let's let's come back to movement.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Why movement matters and types and outcomes that people should
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: be looking at.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I put movement as the very first one of
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: these seven truths because I think it makes it. It's
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: the most clear, really understandable picture of something hard needs
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: to happen to make the mind and body it adapt
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: And you know the biological term of that, which we're
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: both very familiar with of hormesis is most obvious with movement.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: It's so obvious that that is the case you the body.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: The body isn't a homeostatic system. It is that as well.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: It comes back to set points, but it's actually a
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: look forward system more than anything else. And so that's
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: not homeostatus as alostasis. Yeah, it's exposures make it predict
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen in advance, and it either unloads
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: and atrophies because it doesn't want to save stuff that's
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: not needed. You know, no point having muscle mass when
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: you're in space, it's just biologically costly. Or you know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: you've gone to the gym or you're doing some hard exercise.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It knows that that's going to keep coming. So that
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: predicts the future and then adapts accordingly. That's hormesis as alostasis.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: And that's the simple part of being healthy. So I
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: think the most obvious, easily understand about the choosing your
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: heart is exercise. And you know, we could both go
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: on for two and a half days of a continuous
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: podcast with the benefits of exercise in terms of brain
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: derived neurotopic factor and every conceivable miter kind and signaling
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: molecule and all of that hormonal orchestra of anibalism and
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: tatalism and key hone signaling and everything like that. But
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a bottomless pit of synchronicity that needs
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: to be put front on. And that's really the most
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: obvious thing. So if you're not, if you're not adapting
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: in a play it forward sort of way through exercise,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: and you've really giving yourself no chance of getting anything
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: else into place after that.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I am a firm believer, and I kind of see
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: it in my talks and you will as well when
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I go into exercise biology with people, and when you
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: understand the biological adaptations and all of the machinery that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: is upregulated, when you understand the role of mile kinds
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of when you really understand hormesis and how exercise plays
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: into that and the pathways that are activated by exercising
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: the body, it just blows your mind, doesn't it. When
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: you really dig into science, it's like, fuck, howd cool
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: is this ship?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: That?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Just the amount of systems and processes and adaptive responses
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: that happen when you exercise, it just blows your mind,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't it. And it then becomes very clear to people
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: like me and you whoven into this why we have
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: such physical and mental problems in this country, Like so
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: much of that comes back to lack of movement. I
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: firmly believe, and I know you're a believer of that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: as well, because you're just.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Just drawing your genome if you're not moving.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's gonna I mean, the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: double side of the coin is so interesting because on
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the one side, it's it's so adaptable to stress and
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: provided you do it within the right range for where
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: you're at, and you're allow enough recovery and you're having
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: the right materials and in terms of good food and stuff.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: But it's it's, you know, it's almost a never ending
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: path to improvement that the exact opposite to them, it's
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: a never been path to atrophy should you choose not
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: to go down that path. So it works both ways,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: very very quickly, and that's the beauty of it. Unfortunately,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: we've we've been so successful as a species that we're
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: so good at engineering movement out of our lives because
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: for the most of humanistry have needed to rest, we're
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: needed to engineer arrest, and we've got so good at engineering,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the rest that you're resting that we're actually not in
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: a situation where we're getting anything. It's an astonishing thing.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: And is it really is?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: So, So tell our listeners what what kind of what
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: should to be focusing on in terms of movement just
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: at a broad level, and any protector outcomes that they
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: should be looking at in terms of you know, strength, fitness,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: that sort of stuff.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, there's the there's there's several components of fitness,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: so beyond just you know, there's so much to talk
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: about cardio resiratory fitness VO. Two. I think that gets
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: probably too much of a rap. Don't get me wrong,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: It's very important. But the reason it comes up so
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: strongly in the research in my mind is it's virtually
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: the best possible biological measure. It's like it's sort of
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: a weighted exponential moving average of your genes through everything
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: that you've ever done in your life, waited most recently
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to what you've done. So something I view to max
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: is a brilliant biological measure of physical capacity, where other
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: things like functional movement, strength, flexibility, those are harder to
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: get in the same type of measure, but I think
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: they're all important, and so I think from my mind,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: you know, actual physical fitness, which is both easy longer
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: duration exercise that stimulates that ortopogy, the harder exercise which
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: stimulates growth. They impact on that, but they're on a
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: sign without without strength work and you know, stuff that's
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: going to create a muscle mass and a functional muscle mass,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and then the signal that goes with working those muscles
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: and that without being able to move through a range,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you know, because let's face it that a lot of
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: that last decade of life is impaired by maybe low fitness,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: maybe low strength, but more than anything, low functionality. Now
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: you can't get out of your chair. Yeah, my mother
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: went to the gym yesterday and they do in her
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: oldies program, they do they do functional testing, so you know,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: she has to do how many times she can get
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: up and down the chair and assisted no arms in
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: thirty seconds. She did thirty Wow.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Wow, Well that's she's like, you really couldn't go any
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: faster because you have to actually physically get up and
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: sit down on a second. But yeah, so she's she's
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: in the ninety nine percent of of course for her age,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: she's eighty five but that's brilliant, that's you know, those
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: those things get over lock.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think because you actually alluded to this,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: like so there's a.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Lot of emphasis and VO two max being one of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the biggest predictors of how long you're going to live.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: You cite the Jama paper in the research as well,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: but it's not so much. I don't think the VEAL
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: two max per se the amount of oxygen you consume.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's a reflection of the work that you're
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: put in over your life that is really important, right, Okay,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: so we both agree on that. And then obviously the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: strength training, I think because a lot of people know
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: right that high blood pressure and having diabetes, having carniority
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: disease or plaques, you know, this is all bad for
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: your health. Smoking is bad for your health. But VEO
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: two max like that blads it out of the water,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: as does grip strength is way more predictive. I think
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the caveat is probably if you're in your fifties and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, grip strength is a much bigger predictor
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of your risk of all cause mortality than your blood pressure.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Whether you're a smoker or have diabetes, right.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Which is just just because of the function of your hands,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: and that's a good measure of everything else.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't want people going out and buying all
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of those little grip trainer things.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: That you do.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: If you've got good grip strength, you've been lifting heavy shit, right,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: either either through a physical job or.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Lifting it in the gym.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we need to be we need to be fit, cardio, respiratory.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I have this thing right there to say like, if
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: you're a Marthon runner, you probably need to run less
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: and lift more weights. If you're a bodybuilly, you probably
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: need to lift less weights and do more cardio, right,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And everybody needs to work on no mobility, particularly as
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: they get older, stability and mobility.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Particularly one legged stuff. I think we're both invalid agreement
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: on that.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Any particular. Do you recommend that people get assessments to
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: know where they're at?
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that there's three things that you can
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: do in the field that are easy to do that
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: there's norms on and you cannot them up. You just
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: google them. It's like age adjusted norms, so you can
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: see where you should be for your age. So there's
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the Cooper twelve minute tests. So just you either use
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: your phone or go to a running track and see
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: how fay you can get by by any means possible
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: over twelve minutes. And that's an incredibly accurate way of
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: understanding your overall capacity. If you can't run because of
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: some medical injury or reason, then you can this bike
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: riding and swimming and whatnot equivalence. So that's the first one,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: and they'll give you a really incredibly accurate lab which
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: is as good as the lab estimate of your VO
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: two max, and you can look for you in your age.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: The second one is you can do the number of
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: push ups, either full or modified that you can complete,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: and an adjusts for whether you're doing them as modified
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: on your knee ones or full ones. And again there's
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: that that's this, there's a good research on that is
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: overall strength. Or you can do the the grip strength
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: thing is hard to get hold because you need a
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: particular hand on.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you know there's thirty bucks on amazonmometer
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: is thirty grip box on Amazon.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you could just hang off a I just did.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of dead hanging and and you
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: know you should be able to hang off a bar,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: like anybody should be able to hang for a minute, right,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and you know you want to get yourself up to
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: two to three minutes, you know, hanging off a bar
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: with your own body if you're over wed, that that's
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: obviously going to play into.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: It, right.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But but I think that stuff is all really good.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Let's let's talk because because we can spend ours on this,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: but I don't want to get sucked in too far.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: And I mean people can read the book and find
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: out more, and you've got you've got recommendations. I love
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: that at the end of every section you've got the
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: profts prescription, right, which is pretty cool. So it's very practical.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the next chapter, which is about dopamine.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: And again, we could spend all day on this, but
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I want you to really focus on hard versus soft dopamat.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: The soft dopamin thing is what I've called the I've
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: tried to call it the Devil's seesaw. This is a
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: great irony of the Devil's seesaw is that you've got
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: this easy dopamine available, so the reward system gets easily
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: stimulated into anticipation and motivation for more stuff chunk food, gaming,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: social media, pawn, street drugs, alcohol, most of the things
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: in society that are pleasurable and easy to come by.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: That pushes a sea saw way up. You go up,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: you feel great. That's also across the system adepts and
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: down regulates. So you need more of the same stuff.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: That's tolerance.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: But grant, I think it's worthwhile people understanding nor A
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Volkov's work like Jesus Well over a decade ago showed
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: that if you're constantly whacking your brand with high doses
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: of dopamine, particularly and and you know some of those
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: and she showed like like drugs, like how much dopamine
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: they produce compared to food.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: And I'd love to see where social media is growing
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: is but you've got this beautiful dopamine like uh like
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: an accelerator type thing.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which is really cool. So I originally had
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a massive table of everything. I was trying to instimate it,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: but I'm not sure about the veracity of all the data.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: But you know something about social media does can bang up.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Dog Men are three four, which is above junk food.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: That's yeah, that which is.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Anyways. So but also when you when you want to
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: normal that dopamine again, then you get a compensated reaction
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: the other other sade of the sea saw. This is
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: the Devil's sea, Saurce. So now you don't come back
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: to normal, below normal and the opposite of pleasure is pain.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: And I call the whole easy dopamine the Devil's seesaw
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: because it's it's this is a great irony of life
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: that the things that promise pleasure in life used as
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: prescribed deliver pain. I mean, nothing is more ironic in
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: the human condition than the current sort of dopamine seesaw crisis.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: And I think I think there's a massive degree of misdiagnosis.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Are young people that you get diagnosed with anxiety or
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: depression when I think you've just got actually a disregulated
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: dopamine system. You're feeling psychological pain. Sure, you're discombobulated, you're
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: not coping with life, but your reward system is disregulated,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and then it gets diagnosed as depression or anxiety, get
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: medicated forward, and it's that's a ridiculous situation.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I think there's there's a condition that we should be
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: talking about that I think it covers mild anxiety, mild
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: depression mild ADHD. I think we need to rename that
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: as m l D Modern life disorder. Yeah, I really do,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: because I think, as you say, most of it is
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: driven by that by lifestyle. But I think just to
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: come back to the dopamine, I think there's this, there's
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: there's there's two things about it. For me, there's what
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: you said about the setol, which is very real. You
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: get a big spike and then you get a crash
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: and you feel shit because your dopamine is plummeted. But
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: then there's the long term stuff that Norah Volkov showed
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: is that when you constantly hit your brain with super
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: normal levels of dopamine, as modern life does, the brain
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: adapts by reducing the amount of dopamine receptors in the brain,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: and then you need more just to feel normal. Right,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: And you talked about that from tolerance perspective. This is
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: what happens in tolerance and drugs, right. But this is
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: what we're doing to our brand stopamine systems. We're actually
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: by constantly heaving it the briand's gone, fuck, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: that's way too much, and it reduces the density of
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: receptors in the brand, which then means that you need
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: more junk food, more scrolling just to get to sea
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and buzz or to feel normal.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: And then stuff that used to be pleasurable is no
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: longer pleasurable.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Well, and so I think you know one hundred percent right.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: And the problem with that is I think we're both
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: had teenage boys and we've seen this with gaming as
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: can just regulate that system in some boys. And so
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you know, a kid that would go out and exercise,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: A kid that would go and pat the dog and
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: come to the family dinner and enjoy that withdraws from
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: that because those provide no stimulus that gets them anywhere
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: near feeling good. Yeah, and you're left with a touch
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: now and young boys that the sage you left for
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: the boy that there's a shell of his self is withdrawn. Socially,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: he's angry, he'll probably be diagnosed without HD as you say,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: he's feeling some pain, but he's also things that would
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: normally light up the kid no longer do. So you know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: achieving something at school, yeah, just doesn't doesn't move the
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: needle because those receptors are gone, literally gone. You have
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: to recept the system.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you've had when you've had heroin, marijuana doesn't
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: do it anymore exactly, you know what I mean, when
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you when you've had just when you've had too much
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: that shit of that, there's super levels of dopamine that
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: just the normal pleasures of life just don't do it.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that let's get to the hard
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: dopamin because I think this is a great way to
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: help resent because it's a really interesting thing about the
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: double side of dopamine and the great paradox of life.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: So when you do the hard stuff first exercise, ice, sauna,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: then you get released from that discomfort. The body is
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: producing dopamine, right, So it's such an interesting thing. So
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I thank god I'm not cold anymore. Thank
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: God I'm out of that hot box. Thank god I'm
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: not pretty much through the difficulty of that exercise, then
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the body is motivated towards that anticipatory response and starts
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: to produce open but it does so at a lower level,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: but for a lot longer.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: And less of a crash, right, the.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Crash and the dysregulation. So again here's the other exact
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: opposite side of the coin, which is of the great
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: irony of life. Coin is uh, you know the pleasure
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: promise pressure that gave pain, the pain promise pain, but
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: in the end gave pleasure. So you know what, what
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: a what an interesting piece of biology the brainers and
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: the rewards system is and the way it works, and
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: you know, everything we try to do for the pleasure
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: actually does the exact opposite. Well, it's just a huge rony.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: But it's it's easy to understand from an evolutionary perspective, Grant,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: isn't it. It's it's like, you know, because if we
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: think of those things that you talked about, like the
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: cold exposed to the hate, the exercise, if we go
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: back to our time as hunter gatherers, this this was
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: like if you're bringing going out for a long hunt
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: and you're starving, and it's like it's like there's the
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: motivation to keep going and and the reward that you
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: get from the from then finally catching something is long
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: lasting reward that says, hey, Grant, this was worth it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Do this again.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that way. I think you did. Right. It's
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: just such a that those that will within need that
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: world away. It doesn't match your current world, and there's
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: consequences for that.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And and and this is I think this
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: is absolutely huge.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: It really is.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: And again that I think it's worth while buying the
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: book just for that dopamine kind of graphics, like it's
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: like an accelerator in your car that will just give
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: people so much insight. And again you've got your your
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: profts prescription. And now we've we we talked about this
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: sort of in little bits, but but fiercing the elements.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: So just jump into what.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: What people can do put as a separate truth and chapter.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: It's really the hard don't mean, you know, I think
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: we would look at it that enough in the podcast.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I'll defeat myself with a sort
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: of secre ragument here. But in many ways, I all
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: had things you can choose. Hot and cold is the
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: easiest had thing.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Some people would would argue with you the cold on
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: the cold exposure.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: This is really interesting, right.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I have had numerous talks because you know, I'm a
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: big fan of cold exposure, and I've had quite a
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: few women actually say to me in talks, Oh, I've
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: heard that women shouldn't do cold exposure because it spikes
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: their cordis all right? And this all comes from I
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: think it's coming from doctor Stacy Simms.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: I've had on my podcast.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: It was great, and her thing is women aren't small men,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: and she's absolutely one hundred percent right. But I did
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: a deep dive into this. There is no evidence that
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I could find any published evidence that women have higher
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: cortisol levels than men from cold exposure. There is evidence
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: when they did a head to head comparison that they
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: have different strategies in the cold. Women is more about insulation,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: men generally more about heat production. But this idea that
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: getting into it because I was talking about cold shars
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: and somebody said, oh, that would spike your cortisol. This
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: idea that a cold shar for thirty seconds would spike
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: your cortisol is preposterous.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, you and me know.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: That cortisol spikes with exercise, but not until you're quite
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: way into exercise.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: And so you know, it's very clear from.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: The research that cold water exposure gives drives dopamine and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: noah adrenaline and actively it's a sympathetic nervous system, not
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the HBI axis.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen any of that, have you.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think also it's worth thinking about that when
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: you're talking about hormones, powerful hormones in the body of
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: which cortisol is won. It's always worth considering that there's
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: something profound happens in biology that you're cute. Spiking of
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: something yeah, often has the exact opposite effect when it's
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: chronically spiked.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: So you know, the natural cycling of cortisol picking and
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: exercise helps with that. It's picking them morning when you
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: wake up. It peaks when you're under acute stress. That's
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: a really useful response. Now, these are good things. Chronic
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: load is a thing, and it's plausible on the sort
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: of overall metabolic alostelic load that you can overload yourself.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: So if you decide that you're going to do a
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: massive long run with some mentivals in it that day
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: as well, and you're going to go to the gym
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: and do something hard, and you've had a poor sleep
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: and your diet's been shit, and you're throwing some extra
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: hot and cold, then you push the system overall alistatic
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: load outside its ability to cope, and you'll do poorly. Now,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: the argument that she makes there's a little bit sexist
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: in many ways, but maybe it has some biological realues.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I'm middle Asian and not a woman to go through menopause.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I've got all this shit going on. They're most often
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: the ones who are looking after the older parents, got
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: shit going on. Their husband's probably an asshole. I have
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: a generalizing they that you know that this is just
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: going to add to a load that's already overdoing it.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: And that's of course that's the thing. But so I think,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're in the category we've already got
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: too much stress going on. You don't want to start
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: put a lot more. That's ridiculous. You know, the overall
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: load of stress isn't is an important caveat, but yeah,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's probably overreaching.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: And I think temperature and time is critical, right, So
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: so for me in in the fast you know, I
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: could get in and do eight minutes in a two
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: degree ice bath, but I think that would be too
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: much low for where I'm at at the minute. So
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: I'm just getting into my swimming pool which is about
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: ten degrees for two minutes because I just want the
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: initial col water shock response. But if you stay the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: longer you stay in it, the more you're going to
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: affect your immune system and all of those sorts of things.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: Right, So Mike tipped him.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: When I talked to him, Professor Mike Tipton from the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: UK done a lot of the original work on cold exposure.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: He said, you get most of the benefits from the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: first thirty seconds and anything anything under fifteen degrees will
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: activate it.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: So I think that, you.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Know, I'm not a fan of the ten minutes in
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: a two or four degree I spot.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: I think that's probably that's just freaking ego, to be honest.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've all done that just you know, out
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: of showing.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly, yeah, I think you know, if you
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: if you like the benefits of cold exposor was speaking
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: to e lady yesterday who said I've stopped doing this
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: because of this this research or this advice, and then
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: as I talked her through it, it's like, you can
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: do a minute in ten degrees And she's like, oh, brilliant,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just go and do that again because
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: she was thinking she had to do a really hardcore
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, So.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: It's your pool in Melbourne at the moment in May
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: ten degrees.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, becau's been it's been a bit cold. It's big
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: ten to twelve, Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Brutal thinking of Australia as the sunburn country.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was it was maybe the morning because
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: we've had a cold night.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: It's probably sitting at about twelve night, so that's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, no,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's it's chilly enough right when you get
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: in there.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: I actually find for me the sweet spot of cold
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: exposures eight to twelve degrees, right, I could in. I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: was in and in Singapore recently and I went to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: the ice Bath club and they've got an ear degree
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: pool and then they've got one I think it's two.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: And I got out of the eat and I got
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: into the two The two degree was painful.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Its brigod.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Oh it's horrible, Like the ear degrees is is way better.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: But so anyway, so you're talking about the elements that
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: are a great chapter on that. Let's talk about emotions
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: and you talk about taking ownership of your emotions.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: And I think you talked about this earlier, and I
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: think we come from the same philosophical and then practice
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: background on this, the sort of convergence of stoicism. What
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: the Japanese psychologists did, what the acceptance to commit therapy,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: which are just really good tools came with, which is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: understanding the role of of emotions. And you know, of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: the six emotions, happiness and surprise are really downly positive.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Why there is the rest of your fear of.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Discussed discussed anger?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Negative emotions are an important part of being a human
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: and we've sort of talked about them a society as
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: being something to be avoided or got out of. That's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: such an important role in how we've survived and how
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: we live, and they are inevitable. And as you know,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: the more you focus on those, engaging the sort of
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: fusing with those thoughts becoming those thoughts I'm so hungry,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: I'm really angry. You know, you and the thought are
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: not separatable. It is a pretty poor strategy to having
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: a great life and really accepting those things as normal
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: and then deciding that, you know, with what the the
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: psychologists called the choice point, I step towards towards, move
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: towards the life that I want to labor, and I
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: move away from it midway from the life I want
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: to live. Those those foundational understandings of human emotion and behavior,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: and it's it's a shocking thing to me that even
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: there should be foundational knowledge in school, it should be
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: throughout it should be foundational knowledge. And sport because it's
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: such a microcosm of that, it should be a foundational knowledge.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: And psychology, most of the psychologists are now going to
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: extra courses after they've graduated from the psychology would learn
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: about acceptance. And now as that situation.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: It is, it is ridiculous.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: And and I think the big the big thing, and
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: you get this across as well, is that that it's
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: not about controlling your emotions. It's about how you choose
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: to respond to your emotions right, and then bringing in
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: the whole stoic idea of focusing on what you can control.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: And I think you do that very very well. So
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: even that chapter and in and of itself, I think
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: is is worth the money for the.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Book because it gives it.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: I think what you've done very very well is just
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: distilled all of the science and the historic philosophy together
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: and gone, hey, hey, here's how to practically deal with
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: this stuff on a on a daily basis.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: See if people are thought fortunate and therapy.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Then there's there's the chapter, the last chapter you talk
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: about and it's all about meaning and purpose. And I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: find a lot of people are waiting for the purpose
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: fairy to come along and give.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: Them a big dollop. And I mean, you go into
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: the good.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Life and different philosophical traditions, but but just give us
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the kind of the overview of that chapter for the listeners.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I sort of felt that what I wanted to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: do and what the time I've seen the branding of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: this book was this were not the first humans to
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: think about having a good life, and lots of people
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: that come for us have thought about this, you know,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: and from from ancient wisdom through all of the different
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: religious traditions to modern self help. If anything's true that though,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: there should be some conversion themes of of that. And
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: so I went and read and locked in a whole
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: of these things from original source, which is you know,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: both sort of a difficult thing but interesting at the
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: same time. And you know, there's snippets of this of
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: you know, the momentum more are you're going to die,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: life is suffering from Buddha and stuff. But you know,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: you can distill down to a few things and people
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: what I like with what I think the common things are,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: but the common things across all of self Alpha religion
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I think is that life's hard. It's not all about you. Yeah,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: you're not in control fully and you're going to die,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: and you go, well, that's a bit of a glass
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: half ye to do, Paul, and great, what are you
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: on about? But actually understanding them the truth of those
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: things makes having a good life much easier to frame up.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: And I think you and I am really familiar with
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: the story of I know you do this a lot
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: as Victor Frankl's story and man sou for meaning, because
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: we can endure almost any hard given some meaning. And
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: so because the essential truth is that that life's hard,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: you're not in a control of the novel of that,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: un you're going to die. The only way to plausibly
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: get through there is to develop and understand what's meaningful
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: for you in life and what you're after. You know
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: mine happens to be and I know yours is a
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: similar thing. Is as communicating some of the things around
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: health is a major mission for me. I think it's
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: an important thing to do. I want to do it.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: I strive to be good at it. That has an
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: incredible meaning and purpose for me. If I didn't have that, yeah,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know what well life would be like. I'm
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: sure it would be much worse.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, Look, my tombstone statement is military man turned
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: educator to help others be better versions of themselves.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So that's what gets you up in the morning.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and for me, for me, a lot of this
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: is about and I'm a big fan of the stoics idea,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: is it just bouth being useful? You know, how you're
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: going to have a positive impact on your little corner
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: of the universe, right that for me, that that's it,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: That is it is just thinking about that deeply and
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: thinking about the things that you care about, the things
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: that are meaningful in your life, and and and then
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: embracing those things with passion, right and and being fully engaged,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: because I think the other way of looking at that
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: going fucking hell, that's really morose. Grant, life's hard and
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: you know you're going to die and stuff. Is that
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: actually that scientists estimate our chances of ever having been
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: born as us are one in three to four hundred trillion,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: Like we've all won the greatest ever lottery and you know,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: but but the price of that is that life is
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: going to be hard and you've you've got to create
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: your own meaning. But that then, I don't know how
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: you can't then be fully engaged in life when you
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: think of all of those things together and go fucking hell,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: wake up in the morning, like, how lucky am I
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: one in four hundred trillion, And there's so much ship
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: to positive stuff out there for me to do and
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: get interested in.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Because I'm going to die soon.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a I hadn't been thinking that that
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: that that's a good point that we're both you know,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: we're all anyone listened to us as a as an
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: unbroken lineage since the start of humanity. What are the chances?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like two point four million years ago you had
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: an ancestor home Will habilists that was probably called Grant,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: that split off from the greedy ips that you know,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: developed this this and and real dexterity with the hands
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: and traded off strength and power.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: Home Will have listen to Maker.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: And one day your direct ancestor avoided being eaten by
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: a lion.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: And if they hadn't it, you wouldn't be sitting here.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's good. That's cool stuff, that's good to
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: think about. So that's it's that but but you know,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: given the basic fundamental truths of of life like those
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: you know, lives had and that stuff. H yeah, unless
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: you unless you do approach it with a sense of meaning.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: And the data are clear on this. I mean I
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: always say to this used to state I want to
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: teach the any to the students about buying a lottery ticket.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, it's futility. So not only is it
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: is it you got no not much chance of winning,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: but if you do, it will probably make your life worse.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh yeah, so go through the data
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: and you know people are generally worse off and blah
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: blah unless they give away all the money. And as
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: soon as are like, oh yeah, well put me in
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: the study, I'll prove that wrong. I'll be an outlier.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: But you know, the data are clear like this, there's
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: not there's not some sort of heathenistic destination that you're
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: going to arrive at when your life is complete. It's
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: only you know, and there's so many memes on this
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: from your life's agending on destination and you know, falling
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: up winds, it, it all, it's all come throughout history.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: But you know then it reason that has happened is
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: because it's actually true.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, no, no, absolutely, And I mean I think
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: the whole idea of that life being life is hard
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: at times, it's also frigging amazing. We're very lucky to
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: be here and actually accepting this life's going to be
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: hard to one thing.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: But as I said earlier.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: On embracing it is another thing. And I think your
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: book is a survival guide for moving from and this
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: idea that life should be easy into accepting that life
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: is going to be hard, and then into embracing it,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: because you very clearly outline the benefits of doing this stuff.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: And what I love is you give you know, the
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Prof's prescription. And then what I'm a big fan of
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: is at the end you're telling people to run their
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: own experiments and give them ideas.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: So why is that important?
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it runs different. You're going to have
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: a completely different view on life. What's important to me
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: might not be important view Like there's people who live
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: their whole life thinking about their contribution to classical music
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: or something. Well, you know, that's bloody fantastic, But it's
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: a completely different life than being a health communicator. And
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: that's a completely different life than being someone who drives
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: im mental satisfaction out of making surfboards for other people
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: to ride waves on. You know, there's a everyone's going
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: to find their own place, and it's everything's personal, the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: way you want to eat, exercise, stress. It's you've got
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: to find your own path here, and it's not going
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: to be easy. That's probably the point.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a great it's a great read.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: So I would encourage all of the listeners to jump
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: on to Amazon.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: It's you said to know it's available.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: For Amazon dot com. Are you just Grant Schofield.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Or Amazon whatever to choose your heart And definitely a
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: book that people should get.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of it.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Hey, I got one question that I've been wanting to
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: ask you unrelated. Yes, this sort of related to longevity.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: So I've recently become more aware of this whole longevity
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: research stuff right on these YAM and moto factors or
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: whatever they are. You know, like they drop the stuff
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: onto cells, onto the DNA, and you can you drop
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: enough of it and the cell turns back into a
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: stem cell, but you drop just a little bit less
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: onto it and it resets the biological clock and then
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: they've done these experiments the stated Sinclair's and all these
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: other groups with mice doing that and you get tissues
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: specific regeneration, you know, and eyes and things, which is
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: therapeutically interesting, or you know, maybe a whole organism and
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: they've had mice living up to the sort of recording
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: and a two hundred and fifty year old human. What
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: do you make of that? Like, I'm just interested, what
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: are you a makable with?
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: For me, I I'm kind of because I get very
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: excited by all of that and looking into the research
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: and these biological aging clocks and stuff. And but then
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: the more you dig into it, and then when you
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: look at the interventions testing program, you know, whether there
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: was some some interventions that would appear to extend lifespan
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: like rap of mice and alphaquito gluegrey at these sorts
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: of things. But then now I recently haven't been repeated
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: and been underwhelming, and some of the data coming out
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: about rap of mice and in humans being underwhelming. I
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: think we are so far away from this whole idea
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: of escape velocity, and you know, there's a lot of
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: longevity crowd are like we're going to hit escape velocity
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: where we're going to be able to live forever. I
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: think that's we're blocking up the wrong tree. I think
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: we need to be barking up the tree of health span.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: And I think we're so far away from his game philosity,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: it's not true.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I listened to the Moonshots podcast with
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Peter Till. There's a sort of future of Scott was
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: managed talking about AI but that sort of health escape
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: bloss and it's you just need to stay healthy for
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: another ten years. And you know we're pretty much there
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: on escape velosoity. But then does it create more social
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: problems that it's worth anyways? The finite nature?
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Jesus if we're all like, how are we
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: going to feed ourselves? But but but I think that
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: the other point is that that off the back of
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: some of this research, there's not you know, experimental stuff
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: going on, like stem cells stuff.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: You should have a look at Scott.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Carney's investigation of that guy can doing the stem.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, altho, that's Scott County.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah No, but he's done a brilliant expose a on
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: this thing in Mexico where all the stars were going
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: to including Mark Hymen, who almost got killed, almost got septis,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: And it was only Scott Corney's investigation that found out
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: that it was for that Mark Hymen was he was.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: He did not say it was about stem cell therapy
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: because he's encouraging all his patients to get stem cell therapy. So,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: you know, there's I think there's there's there's real risks
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: with this stuff that I think there's lots of exciting
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: stuff on the horizon. I just I think that the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: all of the the social media spin offs of this
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: are just overinflating where we are and what we can
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: do at the minute. But you know, I do think
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: we need to get back to the basics of all
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: the stuff that you talked in Good Food and I
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: think optimize your vinomin D and your Amiga three way
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: before you even think about taking ann m n AN
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: and m l n R. You know, it's just like,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: do the fundamental tools and do them well.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: And let's just wait and see where this other stuff
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: goes to. Because it's very promising.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: But as you know, experiments in mice are very different
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: than results in humans in the real world.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and be careful what you asked for, But then
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: you did right with omega threes. Actually, I mean, I
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: think if you had to lay out the top five nutrients, well,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: five percent of Americans have a omegas three to six ratio.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: That's that's in the range that is commentriate with good function.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: You probably a third of them have got vitamin D,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: which is optimal. Probably half of them. We've got magnesium,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: which is optimal. Probably you know. Then you go down
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: to iron and zinc and those are probably you know
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: they still that are efficient in those You know, we
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: could do so much better with just some easy stacks there.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I look absolutely, and I think those ones.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: Optimizing those first and I think that's key. And then
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: all of your other stuff is the kind of icing
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: on the kick. But you know the M and N
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: and N R, so you know you're probably playing about
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: eighty bucks a month on it. I know if you
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: just saw the paper release that showed that, yes, they
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: both do rheis NA D right, But they do it
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: through the liver. They're both decomposed into one of the
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: B vinamins not I think it's B three nisin, and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: they're both metabolized into nyson in the liver and then
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: reconstituted are to drive NAD so you could just take yeah, exactly,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: rather than fucking eighty dollars a month.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: There you go, There you go. That is just that paper.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: I'll send it to you.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: It's blown up an entire industry, but they will still
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: survive because of all the social media and all these
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: people tiding it on social media. So yeah, but but
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: really interesting that. God, I've got to go because I've
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: got I've got to get kids out to school. But
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: where else can people go? So Choose your Heart? You've
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: also got You've written a whole heap of bits. You've
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: just got to fact what the feest all of these things?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: And where do we go focus on? You just got
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: to Prof. Grantsco Field dot com and and the where
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: you get from.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Me excellent Prof Grants goo field dot com. And I
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: will put that in the show notes. Guys, I highly
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: recommend that you buy Choose Your Heart because it's it's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: a great read by somebody who really knows his ship.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: Thanks for thanks, Matte Catcha saying