Latest / Unlearning Beautiful / Ep. 19 Unscripted with Kristina & Stefanie: Perfectionism & the Feeling of "Never Enough"

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Ep. 19 Unscripted with Kristina & Stefanie: Perfectionism & the Feeling of "Never Enough" · Unlearning Beautiful

• Kristina Bruce: Quick note before we start today's episode. I'm opening up a small group body peace coaching circle this May. If you've been navigating your body peace journey on your own, I've created this group to be a more accessible way to access my coaching and guidance while benefiting from the shared experience of a small supportive group. This isn't just a place to talk. It's a space where we work together toward real felt results, moving away from the noise of body shame and toward sustainable peace. If you're curious, I'd love for you to join the interest list in the show notes. I'll be sharing more details with that list shortly, giving us a chance to see if this is the supportive space you've been looking for. And now for today's episode. It's a little different format than usual, but I think you'll find it really valuable and fun. Enjoy. Hey there, this is Stephanie Michele, a binge eating recovery coach. And this is Christina Bruce, a body piece coach. It might be a little bit strange to hear my voice if you're listening to this on the Unlearning Beautiful podcast. And same if you're hearing mine on Full But Not Finished. But that's because today's episode is a little different. See, I've been following Stephanie on Instagram for years. And I've been following Christina. And I was noticing how much of a similar perspective we both have around making peace with food in your body. So Christina reached out to me in the DMs to connect in real life. And we started talking and realized that our stories were very similar. To high achieving women who spent way too many years caught up in perfectionism. We spent an exhausting amount of time on food and our bodies, always trying to stay in control. and eventually it became too much and we went on the journey of making peace with food and our bodies. But as we started sharing with each other, so much good stuff came up that we thought, we need to record this. So we stopped our conversation and we're picking it back up today. With the record button on, because we're sure some good stuff is going to come up and we didn't want you to miss it. I'm ready if you are, Stephanie. Let's do it. Welcome to Unlearning Beautiful. podcast for women tired of trying to look good enough and ready to feel good from within. I'm your host, Christina Bruce, here to help you let go of the pressure to look right or do it all right and reconnect with your inner guidance, your natural worth, and what truly makes you feel fulfilled. Because the freedom you're craving was never in how you look. Okay, so tell me you're doing the binge eating recovery. So obviously you struggled with your own binge eating. Yes. Okay, so like what's the story? What's the four one what? Yeah, well like honestly, so my primary thing I do is I help people with binge eating recovery. Like food stuff is where it's at for me. But the reason why I developed an eating disorder in the first place was because of my body image. Like my body image was the main event for me for most of my life. I mean, I was like a, I was like a, what was it called? Not like, ⁓ I was like a big boned kid, you know, like I had, I was just a little bit bigger framed than my friends and stuff. So probably from the age of like nine or 10 onwards, I just had a relationship with my body that was, like I always felt like my body was not who I was or like it wasn't doing me any, like any favors, you know? And so my eating stuff developed out of my disgust, what eventually turned to my disgust for my body. And my eating was always an effort to just control my body. It wasn't even so much about like control in general. It was just like, please make my body smaller. Because when I was smaller, I got more attention, I got more validation, I felt more in control. Like I associated those things together. So my, at 40 years old, when I recovered from binge eating, it was really actually more of a decision to like, decide to stop fighting my body. I mean, that was the first thing that had to happen because everything else was built upon the idea that like, you must be smaller. Like we have to be smaller. And I was fighting that tooth and nail for decades. Yeah. Did you, ⁓ like, did you get a sense of, like, did anybody say anything when you were younger? Like, or did you just... look at your friends and think, oh, I'm bigger. Because when you were talking about that, a memory came up for me when I was in grade seven. I must have gone through a growth spurt because all of a sudden, oh god, this is so weird. All of a sudden, the boys in my class who were the popular boys started paying attention to me. And that was weird. But here was the weirder part. Friends' moms started commenting on my weight loss. And I'm thinking, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, that's messed up. I know. Like you're commenting on a 12-year-old girl's body being like, oh, you look good. You lost weight. I know. Like we're... It was so normal. I had a friend, I had a dad comment on my body once. And it was, it wasn't... meant to be creepy. I was about to say it wasn't creepy, like, was it creepy? like, yeah, it really didn't. It didn't feel creepy to me at the time. That wasn't it. It was more like it was a man who was just like, she doesn't have an ounce of fat on her body because at this point I didn't. And I remember he was almost just saying it like he was observing it. And his wife who was there was like, I remember her, she just folded her arms and looked me up and down, like in a way that was like, go girl. You know, like that was what that vibe was. And I remember standing there and at the time I was in the thick of like the worst of my restriction days. wasn't binging old were you? 16. I remember what I was wearing. I remember what I, like it was a summer day. I had come home from practice, from field hockey practice. And like, I was standing there. I remember feeling like I was being looked at in this way that was like approving. It wasn't even gross. was just like, yeah, look at you. And I remember feeling like at once, kind of like I want to get out of here. And also I've arrived. And also, oh crap, there was some kind of pressure and expectation in it that I never liked people commenting on my body because I always felt like, oh, well, number one, what did you think of me before? And number two, if I can't sustain this, because it was never sustainable and I always felt that way, I always felt like I was at the edge of like, everything crumbling. You know, what am I gonna do then? Like, who would, how will you look at me then? It felt like such a pressure system. So at that point, yeah, the comments were more positive prior to that. Yeah, I mean, there were some comments. I wasn't bullied for my body or anything like that, but I know that, you know, like I had like thicker thighs, you know, my mom had been like... that dress isn't flattering on you and things like that. And my grandmother used to comment on things, know, like, if you lost a little bit of weight, you know, just stuff like that. So it wasn't like a huge trauma in my life, like from a perspective of comments from other people, but it was something I knew, like was just, I was slightly just above where ideally I might want to be. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I hear that. So, ⁓ yeah, go ahead. No, I was just, it's it's like bringing up memories for me too of like my aunt was always in the always, always since I knew her. I remember I had seen pictures of her when she was younger and she was thin, but she was a smoker, which was also hilarious because she was a nurse. You know, it was like back then. Yeah. Like all the dongers and like everybody was smoking and she wanted to quit smoking and she did, but then she gained weight and then she kept gaining weight. Like, so she got much larger. And it was always this, I think she really wanted to accept her body and feel okay, but the comments that she would say would definitely made it clear that she didn't. she would say, we were all getting in a car and she was like, all right, all the Bruce Bums in the back. And I was like, Bruce Bum? Like, what's a Bruce bump? My last name being Bruce. And it was this idea that we all have bigger bums. And I remember feeling like it was just the way she said it. I was like, this isn't a good thing. Like, why would you point that out? I know that being bigger isn't good. But then I kind of remember I commented to her about it, and she was trying to backpedal a little bit. But I was like, it just is like these little things of something's wrong, like I'm too big. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because some of the stories that we'll see on social media and stuff is like, and with clients too, it's like there's very kind of like hard stories about bullying around this stuff. even like parents or mothers who are like, you're too big, I'm taking you to Weight Watchers, like these kinds of very obvious and explicit affronts. I've always felt like I haven't like related to that, it's the little, it was like just this subtle undertone of like, you got a pretty face, but you know, like, and it's this little, like you're just not good enough. You you could be if you tried a little harder, but like just not gonna, and like that space for me is where I think it appealed to that perfectionism because it was like, I was almost there, but not quite. And that like gave me, I think this sense of like, maybe a challenge or something like that. felt like I had something, I always say like, it's almost sometimes harder. I felt like it was like just within reach, not too far away, but like just within reach. And there was something about that psychology that felt like it spoke to the part of me that was like, just push, just push a little more, just push a little more, just push a little more, which of course became like a pattern of obsession and like a dangling carrot that never, never actually arrived. Did you ever feel though like you did arrive? Like did you get to a place where you were like, I've done it, I'm good, I'm happy here? It's like I would have brief moments, like a brief moment. And it might be all of a sudden the guy that I would have wished to have the attention from all of a sudden now wanted to date me, you know, or yeah, like it would be like that moment. But then like you said, there's this then ⁓ no feeling underneath it because I knew it was fake. Like I knew I'm not normally like this. I'm very intentionally and purposefully keeping my weight down, know, monitoring everything I eat to keep myself this small because I don't want to feel less than. And as it is, I clearly am not good enough. I'm clearly less than if I'm bigger. because I'm not going to get attention from you. And yeah. That reminds me of like, I think when I was eating or when I was trying to recover from the food stuff, I remember feeling like there was this part of me that I like, heard myself say it and I was like, you shh, don't. Like I was like, no, you can't think any differently than like, just be thin. But I remember this part of me saying like, I will accept. whatever my body is, as long as it's authentic, like as long as it's me. And I remember thinking that I could never be happy in the Binderstrict cycle because it always felt like either one was both like this thing that was bigger than me. was like, was one was a reaction of the other all the time and it wasn't, whatever my body was doing in response to that, which it would go up sometime, like at some point, like I started gaining weight and then I would lose it again. You know, I'd go back and forth. And I was like, it's not, the body almost, it's like the fact that I don't know who I am. I don't know if I'm this size or this size or like, everything I do in my life is about fixing the other side of it or like rebelling against the other side of it. Like, who am I? And if my body could tell me who I am naturally, could I maybe get behind that? Could I feel like almost like instability? Like I wanted to know who I was in stability and I hadn't known that since my teen years. And I'd also in the meantime, like developed a deep amount of disgust for it, like for the fact. And I think sometimes like, that related to the disgust of my own lack of like ability to be me? You know what I mean? Like the fact that I was always performing or, or rebelling and I didn't even know who I was. Did you have that sense of wanting to get to know who you were when you were 40 and you did this healing? Because Yeah, because I'll be honest, I'm like, I didn't have that level of self-awareness. Oh, I figured it out later. Like that came much later. For me, it was more just like, I can't keep living like this anymore. But I was like, wow, did she? Like, who am I in this? I go there. I've always been one of those, I'm thinking too deeply about everything. No, it's great. I love it. But when I was, well, I recovered at 40, but it came from exhaustion and then it came from that. That was where that voice came up and I was like, don't you dare think you could be happy with like, you know, I was like, you can't be happy if your body is bigger. Cause there was this part of me like, maybe I could, maybe I could if I felt like it was me, you know, if I felt like this was my honest self. But it just, when you were talking about like knowing it wasn't you, knowing it wasn't sustainable because you were, it was a suppression, you know? It's like that. There's something about the way that we're suppressing body weight that's always felt to me like suppression of who I actually am. It's basically saying what my appetite is and what my body is and my needs and almost like my life force is not okay to be what it is. It's so interesting you said that because I just got done, I was saying I just was recording another podcast interview prior to us jumping on this call and ⁓ I was just interviewing ⁓ Bridgette Burdick Brown from Beyond Beauty Project. if you've heard of I know Beyond Beauty Project. Yeah. So she was a model for 20 years, like high fashion model. And I was like, I need to talk to her. Because I had just watched this documentary following a model around starting early in her modeling career, going to Paris Fashion Week. and trying like going to casting calls for being in Paris Fashion Week. And it was just recorded like a year ago or two years ago. So super relevant. And it was so sad. It was so sad because not only are almost all models starving themselves. it's like, mean, and then she confirmed everything. I was like, okay, so tell me, is this what's going on in the modeling industry? And she's like, yep, that's 100 % what's going on. What we all think. But the point is, that I had said to her, I go, I feel it's like what we're being sold is this idea, in order to be this epitome or idea of beauty and valued is we literally have to disconnect from our soul in order to be that. And she was like 100%. Because she was saying that through her journey of being a model, she had, like, she literally just kind of disconnected from her body. You have to. It's like what we're taught, like it was encouraged anyways. I'll stop talking about that because that's in the episode. can hear all about that later. that episode out. Yeah, check that one out when it comes out. that's just it. like for me, I'm actually like feeling kind of this emotion coming up right now, thinking about young me and just thinking about how I just felt so insecure. Like I felt so insecure in myself and I never felt good enough. And so that would show up in everything. So how I would do it is, I mean, I was naturally more inclined to do well in school. I got good grades. And so getting good grades is what helped validate me to feel like I was good enough. And then it was... you know, it sounded like you were in sports. I was in sports too. I like played softball and I was on the rowing team and it was, it was again, doing well in sports. Like everything was this, how can I do well in, in try to be, you know, perfect in the thing that I'm doing so I can feel good enough? the body, I feel, I guess I consider myself lucky in some respect that I didn't really get into the disordered eating until after I graduated university. It didn't start for me until in my mid-20s because I was too busy with trying to be good at sports and school that I wasn't as focused on the body. But then once I was out in the world on my own and was dating and whatnot, I was like, want to know what it feels like to be beautiful in the sense of how I'm taught. to be beautiful, like, you know, because everybody's around me. Like, I grew up with a sister who was always thinner than me. So she was always getting the praise from my family. Like, they were all women who were thin. Same story. Thin when they were young, fat when they got older. And they were just pining for those days of when they were thin. And they could never get back there. So they were always complimenting anybody who was thin in our family. And I'm like, well, I want that compliment. I want the validation. I want to feel good enough. so going out intentionally and doing that and then getting the validation. works. Right? It works. It comes. But as we know, it's that, again, that soul disconnection because it was rooted in coming in a place of not good enoughness. So I feel like if we're taking action from a place of fear and insecurity, it will never get out of the cycle from that. It just kind of keeps perpetuating itself. Like it keeps going in this circle. Because you get the temporary validation, but it never fills the hole. And the mark is always moving. And it's like, was I ever thin enough? Because even when I was thin, I look back in photos and I'm like, oh my god, I was that thin? I never felt that thin. I never thought I looked like that. You know, and so it's just so sad because it's like we're okay when we start out, right? Like when we're young children, we're okay. And then we get these ideas implanted in ourselves that we're somehow not okay. And then we go on the search to feel okay again, because we, the whole problem was that we believed we weren't okay in the first place. And it's like when you're growing up, you're just listening to what everybody else around you is saying. So you think, well, yeah, like this is just how it is. This is what matters. This is the truth. And we absorb it. And then we're now on this journey to like fix ourselves again or feel enough. And the whole thing was, well, you don't feel enough because you've lost connection with your inherent enoughness. The whole idea that you weren't enough was the lie. Right. Except that like, I think the trick of it is, and the psychology of it is, But when you get the validation, which feels like something towards the good enoughness, it's not, right? Like it doesn't actually ever land, but it feels like it's coming. You know, like the more you're getting validated and like the accolades are arriving, you're like, yeah, okay. Like this makes me feel good. It feels like a high. This high is then interpreted as like, good enough, good. I don't feel it fully, but like I must be getting closer. And then if you lose it, you're getting... convinced that you've lost that access you were just about to have. And that loss then becomes what you're interpreting as the not good enoughness. So you're like, you're buying back in each and every time to like, no, the reason I feel like crap isn't because I never felt good enough to begin with. It's because I just lost access to almost having it, which it never was. But I'm getting what you're saying with this. So let's say you're a kid and you're just you and you're fine. And then all of sudden you get validated for something, like a behavior. Yeah. And so then your mind says, ooh, like this is a good thing. I'm good now. So it's not like it was coming from a necessary, necessarily a place of not good enough nest to begin with, but it was like, you got this sense of validation that the mind interpreted as like, this must mean I'm better or I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like, get caught in that loop. So I think it can come from both places. One, it can come from, I don't feel good enough, but. That's still the pull away. It's the pull to the external validation that actually still takes us away from the fact that we felt enough prior to that. Like we didn't need the external validation to feel enough. And that's the trap. That's the trap because it feels good and then it keeps you reaching for it, which then keeps you away from your own validation, which you already had prior to reaching outside for it. But now it doesn't feel as good when you're like recognizing the absence of the validation. That's the, I think that's like the trouble with it. It's almost like a dopamine loop addiction. know, like it's like, if you, it's like trying to get off your phone, you're scrolling. It's like, it feels terrible when you get, know, if you're fasting to get off of it. eventually something recalibrates. We're never giving ourselves that opportunity. I don't think we can, unless we're doing this incredibly intentionally and purposefully, because society is constantly being like, here's the shiny thing. Come get it. Like this is what's good, this is what's good. You can't get out of it. And I'm curious about this, like for you, like how do you break that? Like how do you get out of something so almost addicting? to, and I don't mean just the behaviors, but like the feeling. How do you end up finding good enoughness again once you've been exposed to this? Yeah, I love you asking that because this is maybe like super. kind of raw and vulnerable right now, meaning not raw and vulnerable and then I'm gonna like break down or anything, but in the sense that I'm actually going through, like I didn't expect to share this right now, but I will. I'm literally in the middle of, I'm personally doing a 40 day experience of where I am sitting in the truth of myself and letting go of any negative feeling that comes up. any, like, well beyond body image now, like we're talking anything that feels negative. like even the slightest irritation, the slightest worry, the slight, like to my mind that feels legitimate. Like, no, no, no, I really should be engaging with this worry and anxiety right now. And it's almost like I've put myself in this circle and I'm like, for 40 days, I can pick up the worry at the end if I want. But I am doing an experiment where I'm like, no, I am letting go. So what happens? The feeling comes in, and I am rooted with the intentionality. So like you said, intentionality is important. With the intentionality of the truth of who I am, which is I am good, I am worthy, I am safe. And everything that when, okay, so I'm kind of all over the place, but. I bring through, what I started doing is I've been noticing that the way that I coach people is a little different than, like, I can't really explain it in words. I really need people to experience it. And so I started opening up that if somebody's curious about working with me, they can book a complimentary coaching session. So I'm offering like a free. I know. I know. it's just like, realized I was like, have to. I can't talk about this. I am failing at communicating what this is about. The only way I can explain it to people is if I guide them through an experience of it. So I've been doing that. And so that's literally like what I do for myself is because I guide them through the experience of who would you be in this moment without a negative thought about yourself. and they're really sitting in it. I also might do it where I'll have them connect with their heart and they're like, ⁓ my God, I'm fine. Some are like, I like myself. The whole point is in the absence of the negativity, we feel good, we feel safe, we feel whole, we feel complete and that is the essence of ourselves. Taking this to the next level personally where... Having that grounded knowing of what is true, because here's the thing, it's a thought that comes and goes. It's a feeling that comes and goes, and yet, you're still here. So the feeling can't be you, because if it really was you, you would disappear when the feeling disappears, except you're still here. So I keep bringing myself back to what is the truth. No, I'm allowed to feel safe. I'm allowed to feel joyful. I'm allowed to feel whole, complete, and worthy. And so for 40 days, every time, the pull of, ⁓ but what about this worry? Of, ooh, maybe you did that wrong. Or, ooh, like, this person's a jerk. Like, judgment even of other people feels bad. I'm like, ⁓ look at that, dragging me back down into that terrible feeling. Nope. I'm gonna sit here, I'm whole, worthy and complete. So that is how I let go of the cycle of it. Is I'm not getting, I'm intentionally, and this like this, by the way, like I have done years of work of like being able to kind of, not to say that you can't do that because when I bring people through this session, they're surprised at how quickly they have the experience. So people are now saying to me, ⁓ my God, like I haven't felt that in ever. or a long time, or they're having my god moments. And I'm like, I know, I know guys, it's amazing. Like it's amazing, like we're okay. I just wanna like shout from the rooftops and be like, everybody, did you know that we're okay? Like that we're totally fine. But we've just like bought into a whole bunch of BS, that's not true. And so to me, on a really deep fundamental level and a long way to answer your question is how I get out of that cycle. But I need, there needs to be some kind of like a bit of a trust, a bit of a leap of faith in saying, you know what, I've been buying and listening to these horrible stories about myself and life and like the feeling like I have to suffer. Like it's normal, everybody's doing this. Like everybody's worried, everybody's stressed, everybody's anxious. And because it's normal, we don't realize that there's another way that actually life can be more useful, but it requires a turning away from those feelings and reconnecting to something much deeper within ourselves. talk about liking to go deep. You found the right girl, because I love to go deep. I always attract them. Anybody who's listening, who's been following me for a long time will know, like, I'm listening to this. And I'm like, OK. Like, my personal psyche is thinking about how my brain And even my spirit would get behind that because I'm a skeptic. So I'm like, I need to understand something before I can commit to it or before I can believe it. So when you're talking about almost this feeling of worth, and I think maybe this is where body positive, is it positive, body positive? I don't even know if it's just that. Where I would read online about like, self-worth and like your body's not your worst and that whole thing. And I never connected with that. did cognitively, but I never connected with it really because like the idea of worth itself or even like okay, or me being not okay, safe and okay, I can get behind, but like good enough even. is felt to me so far. was like, I don't know that I believe in my worth without knowing. But what you're doing is like, you're like, well, worse can be, or like safety can be, the absence of participating in negativity or in like the criticism and things like that. And I'm like, I can do that. That, I can't necessarily go find worth, but I can take away what's blocking it. Because that's the key, right? Like the worth and the safety. And so you can see I'm getting so revved up and excited about this because it's like, it's there. The negativity is what. clouds over that's what I'm hearing. So that's why, I mean, and aren't we back to kind of what we were talking about in the beginning, why you can't actually reach outside for it. Right. Like why the trying to get it always fails is because you're actually moving away. Yes. Like you're getting further away from what's there. What's there. It's already there. That's like when, you know, like you're born whole. Like that idea, you're born whole. if I hear that all by itself, I'm like, don't, I get it, I get it, but I don't get it. But then it's like, that's because all this stuff's in front of it, it's like the removal of. So like almost reverse engineering wholeness and like light. It's an unlearning. It's like an uncovering. It's a taking away versus an adding on. So the whole, because I always tell this to clients and people I'm talking to. And I'll say it my podcast, like people are probably gonna get, well, they're listening to it now, but they're probably gonna get maybe annoyed. I'm just projecting, they're not gonna You do that all the time. You need to be reminded. you're so tired of hearing me say this. Like yeah, I'm gonna be saying the same thing over and over again, but I mean, I've been listening to the same thing over and over again in my own journey because there's truth in it, but we need to hear truth sometimes 20, 100 times before it actually, cause we're gonna hear it on different levels. Okay, I'm getting on a tangent, but lately I've been sharing that I'm reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle again, and I read it 10 years ago. it's like, hit on a whole other level now, right? I'm like, totally, yes, yes, Eckhart, yes. Like, I get it. Like, yeah, I guess like I can't wait to read it 10 years from now to see what I see then, right? But when it's like something in you recognizes as truth, but we can only receive it on a certain level of perceptions. I always say, look at little children because they are the closest to their true essence. That's why they're joyful. They're naturally confident. They're not looking in the mirror, pinching their stomachs like, I'm too fat. No, like because they haven't learned any of it yet. We get taken away from that when we're children and we're essentially on a journey. back to it. Because we do, we come in whole, we learn these ideas. It's like everybody has that moment. I felt okay and then I felt bad. So something took us away from the feeling okay. Yes, yes. There's too many ways I want to go with this conversation. But just that one, that last one reminded me of like when people see photographs of themselves and it's like, that's where they believe that they are just now seeing the truth. And I think it's backwards. I call this curtain syndrome. We believe that when we see a photograph of herself or reflection in the mirror that like, ⁓ my gosh, the curtains have parted and now I see the truth of who I am and before I was just in denial, right? And I'm like, I think it's flipped. I think that the curtains have just come closed and like we have just now objectified ourselves and we're believing in that objectified story. And actually before it is where you were accurate. When you were embodied in yourself and you were just at the party or at the whatever, you were good, you were in you. And then something ruined it. Yeah. 100%. Love it. And that reminds me back to the model conversation I was talking about. We were talking about how that's actually what was going on. It's like they're seeing themselves in photos. And it's the objectification. It's the literal disconnection of themselves because it's an image. I did a whole episode on looking at yourself in photos. And I was saying it's like. There's no life in the photo in that respect. Like the life is in you now looking at the photo. It's not the photo. It's energy. Yeah. Like that lives inside of you literally. Yeah. It's interesting because I'm thinking about like my body image trajectory of like the healing part, right? Or whatever that means. And I didn't like get to any of this prior. to deciding that I was gonna actively try to work on my body image. Like I didn't know any of this then. It's all retrospective learning. But I did feel like I understood that what I was doing was so unsustainable and so just torturous, you know, like that I couldn't, I couldn't, I just didn't have the energy. Like I didn't, I actually for the first time was like, I don't, can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. And so the first thing I did, I couldn't believe any of the things I was reading about my body being worthy all by itself. Like none of this would have landed for me at the time. So I decided that what I was gonna do, well first of all I took a course with Jesse Neyland who was my like first foray into body image thinking at all. But I was like, okay well one thing I noticed that I'm doing is that I every time I get in the shower or I get dressed, was usually when I was like in my cloth I would be like changing my clothes and I would see my body and I would be like. and I would do that out loud. would just like, ⁓ disgust and condescension like just in my voice. And I was like, well, no, we have to stop that. Like we have to stop making that sound. Not because you have to be like, ⁓ I love you thighs, you know, or stomach or whatever. Like, no, I wasn't going to do that either. But I was, I was like, you can't, you can't be walking around saying, ugh, to yourself because what kind of company are you keeping them? Like, What is your body supposed to do with that? know, of course you're gonna feel the way you feel. So I was like, fine, I'm gonna have a no tolerance policy for the ugh. And I'm not gonna replace it with any woo woo or like mushy, gushy self love, but I am going to take away the critic and the very audible critic. And like that little thing went so far because to this day, Actually, every now and then I might make a little gesture, not even necessarily about body image, but like when I'm like, I'm aging, I'm like, and I'll look at my skin and I'll be like, ugh, I'm getting older, you And I'll hear myself do it. I'm like, no. You know, like, it's okay to have feelings and it's okay to have a reaction. I'm not trying to tell myself any differently, but I am not going to engage in the behavior that accompanies it. I'm not gonna validate it and enable it. And to me, it's like what we're talking about here is like, That's taking that layer away. Like it's being like, you can't layer on criticism and expect to get anywhere, right? Like you have to at least take it away so that you stand a chance with yourself. And I remember that I went, when I would do this, it was hard. Cause I was like, want to say, ugh, like I really wanted to. And I would just be like, just rewind, just rewind and just be like, okay, we're just, it's my hip, you know, like it's my stomach or whatever. And then you're like, there's no story then. It's just, it's just what is. No, it's just what is. And I feel like getting closer to what is is an incompletely different experience. It almost reminds me of the power of now. It's about essence and original, or who we are. It's stripping away. It keeps coming back to this idea of taking away what we've learned to put on. And that doesn't even have to be nirvana, or body positivity, or ultimate connection, even in any kind of spiritual sense. it's simply coming closer to is, to now, to what this is, because the brain is otherwise gonna go through its whole prediction sequence of like, means, ugh, means this has to happen, means that has to happen, means we feel bad, means this is the projection of what we feel after we see a picture of ourselves. Like, this is the story that always takes place. So to take that away is to be like, let's be here with this now, what could this be like without the projection of the story that's always come before it? Like, where is this? And I think for perfectionists and like, people who are constantly struck. It's like that idea is very vulnerable because it's, you don't rely on anything before and you don't even rely on your own strengths. You're just willing to be here now, which is a vulnerability. And that is scary for anyone with control. You know what mean? Who prefers to have control or even planning, or even predictability in a way. Yeah. I love that you did that. Definitely. like, ooh, I did not have the ability to do that. tell myself not to go down those rabbit holes. I think it's amazing that you did that. I kind of come at it now from a different way, but that's exactly what you're saying is you're... So kind of like what I'm doing with this 40-day experiment where I'm literally doing it with everything now, like any thought, like I'm taking it next level. That's it. It's like I'm not engaging with this story that wants to have a life right now. Yes. And then you're left with what is and it's like I've always said when I've been working with people, it's like the body is neutral until a story is layered upon it. So you through that exercise stopped yourself from, like you stopped the story and its tracks and without the story on it with just the is-ness. And you tell me, was the experience more neutral? Like was that where it kind of Or what was it? there would have had to have been a story about it to feel any way about it. Yes, correct. So the goal was to be more neutral. It was almost like I divided into two parts, and I still feel this way sometimes. It was like the part of me that had the story that I was taking away still existed. Like I was aware of it. It's not like I was just like, ⁓ never mind you. It was still sitting there. But I like branched off in another part of me. And like this other part of me was a witness to that. and also was like, I'm not buying in, I'm just watching you. Or I'm not even watching you, I'm just also here. I had to have an also here to go anywhere, because otherwise I only had story part, you know? So was like, I need to create both. I need to allow my story part because I can't get rid of it, but I need to create another thing too, because that other thing too is eventually what became much more of what I feel like now. Like it takes up way more space now and I had to give it a mic. So what if the other you that you created, because Those that have worked with me have known I've been really starting to use, for those who are watching this on YouTube, my hand gestures, where I say like, this is you, kind of as you were born, the essence of you. And then this is your mind with all of its beliefs and stories and ideas. And most of us, what ends up happening is the mind ends up latching onto us and kind of whips us around. And we think that we are that. we think we are that story. like to where you're saying there had to be another self to land into. It's like what if that what you were quote unquote creating was actually disassociating, disconnecting from this mind and anchoring back into the truth of you. But you wouldn't have maybe experienced it that way. I think there was a step between. So what I think I did was I had the mind that I was kind of disengaging from story. But in the other part of me that was watching, I don't think I was self yet. I think that I was, it was actually, I kind of got a little angry. And so was this other side of me that was like, I'm not doing that. There was too much ⁓ ego in it, I think, to be self. It was like too bad. She was kind of I am not, she was boundaried and empowered a little bit. She was kind of like, mm-mm, I'm not engaging. So I think I needed her to eventually. And now where I feel like I am isn't, sometimes it's that still. Sometimes I still need her. But there's from there, I think grew this like freedom in that. There was like something like, ⁓ I have way more agency than I thought. And I'm kind of, and I'm mad about it. And that fire is what eventually gave me enough safety to be like, gosh, like who now I can come back to self because all these other parts are protecting me. Right. I mean, I find I certainly went through that angry phase too. And I think that that's, I think that's a part of the journey is getting angry. And it's that, yeah, it's that part that's just saying enough. Like I don't want to keep living this life where I'm putting myself down or being trapped by this. so it comes out, you know, usually at least for me as being mad at diet culture and, know, being being mad at other things, which is better than being mad at yourself and putting yourself down, right? I always say that we don't want to stay there because it burns us out if we're just constantly mad, but it does play a role in that other kind of protective part that comes in to draw that line. Yes, and I think you can get stuck in anger, but I also think you can get stuck out of it. I think having a healthy hit of anger Because shame is anger turned inward, right? So we have to learn how to take that shame and put it where it belongs first and be like, yes, this does live in me. Actually, it's not mine. Actually, it's out here. Actually, no. Like, absolutely not. Get a little feisty and then be able to sort of use that to propel yourself to the next place. Yeah. There's different stages. Yeah. For sure. It's so funny though that you talk about your 40 day, is this 40 day experiment self-led or is it designed by like a course? There's, I'm doing a, it is a course. So it is a guided course where I watch like a video kind of teaching and then there's a, not so much, I think some days there's exercises, but it's just more of a guided experience. Yeah. And then. Yeah, so I'm not doing it entirely on my own. So that is very helpful, I have to say, because when now I'm going to this level of like all story of my life, like not just body, not just one area of my life, I'm hitting it up everywhere. It's like that, mean, anyways, I don't want to get too deep into it, but it's very compelling to get pulled back into the story. And so, you know, I always say this when I'm working with people. they can have a moment of, am okay. know, it's not, my body isn't a problem. I am worthy. You know, I am good enough. They'll have like a glimpse of it or a hit of it. And then that story, that mind just comes ripping back in and really pulls you out and is like, no, no, sorry. actually worthy. That's, no, just joking. You know, like you really are terrible. Yeah, and that's just because that there's been such an energy in that story and it's what we've identified with and it's what feels strangely comfortable. And it's also connected with our survival system. So like the perfectionist letting go of the control, it feels scary to do that because that has been the survival protective mechanism that we've like relied on. And then if you don't have you feel like you have some grounded place to land, like it doesn't feel safe, then you're not gonna wanna let go of it. So it's like, well, no, I have to, I have to keep, I'm only day three, so let's talk after day 40. That's why I was like, I didn't expect to talk about this right I got you now, okay. But it's like, I am full on committed to this. Yeah. ⁓ I just lost track of what I was going to say. I don't know. Well, I think it's cool that you're doing I think it's interesting to hear that you're doing that because given that you and I have led similar, been on similar paths, have similar timelines a little bit, the interesting thing to me has been like when I deconstructed body image to the degree that I did, you know, there's always stuff to do. like, I was like, well, the same patterns are showing up. in my work life or in like, in now this new thing. And it's like, and that was, was like, my body image has just been a nest for this energy to begin with. And so was food. And then I thought when I healed those things, I'd be good to go. Like I'd be somewhat, I don't know what even that means. Like what does it mean to be some kind of a perfectly healed human? And what was, I was happening was like a whack-a-mole, right? It was like something else would pop up with a similar vibe where, to your point, it's like the stories are coming up somewhere else. The critic is coming up somewhere else. For me, it was fear. like fear will show up for me, ⁓ like ⁓ overwhelming fear. And recently I've been like, I just completed my somatic experiencing training. And so after my most recent, ⁓ like the most recent training we had, I was like, gosh, so much of this is like a pattern. It's just like the way my nervous system has learned to do things. And I've been playing with, when I have fear come up or anger come up or whatever it was that used to just be routed into my body image automatically, because that was such a perfect place for it to go, I'm like, what if I... I mean, it's whole thing I can't even describe. It's just like, what if I don't follow that trail? And it's like, I think that's why body image can be such an opening because it exposes what's happening in a much broader way, like across life patterns. And that's why I think all of it's connected anyway. But I think it's really helpful to realize in a way that your body image story is very much a red, it's like a housing. It's standing in front of all this other stuff and being like, it's about body, it's about your body, it's about your body, it's about your body. Because it's so easy to believe that because society is so much built upon that. But it's like, ⁓ it's not. It's not. That was just a really convenient house. Yep. Yep. No, you're right. And I do see it totally as a portal. When you can make more peace with this, it's There's huge healing that comes in that and really does. It's like, OK, here's the portal now. You want to go deeper? You want to actually feel just really good as a whole human in your life, like in all areas? Because then it just highlights where it's still playing out in different areas. so I've been going through, again, didn't expect to talk about this. But that's why it's called raw and unfiltered. Can't script this. But it's like, I've been like coming up against other big identity things that I was hanging on to, to again, the next thing to give me a sense of good enoughness, you know, that I've been letting go of too. And so I'm like, ⁓ okay. So even without that, you know. Yeah, right. Are you okay? Are you worthy? Like, like, I'll be honest. So one thing that's been coming out for me is, you know, my husband and I, don't own a home. We rent. And I don't know if like, guess that depends on where you live, whether that's a thing or not. But where I am, it's like, no, almost everybody I know owns a home. And so there was this feeling of shame and less than because, well, I'm in my mid forties now and I don't own a home. And so like, I've been noticing a lot of story coming up around that. And so I've been working on letting go of the judgment and this idea of, again, this idea of where are we supposed to be in our lives at certain stages of lives, what life is supposed to look like. You're supposed to have the house, you're supposed to have the family, you're supposed to have this, all in what? So that you can feel good enough, you know? And so what if I'm like, well, okay, what if that's just not my life path? Like, obviously it's not because otherwise I would have a house right now. And frankly, when I think about wanting to take care of a house right now, like I do not, like I love that I can just call my landlady and be like, can you fix this for me? I don't. It is great. I know. I hear you. So for all the thinking we want a house, well, was all the parks, just renting. it's, you know, like there's, like, it's like I'm looking, I'm digging in all of the areas of my life where this shows up. And it's like, I don't want. that burden either. Like, I don't want to sit like, like that can't okay, so that feels bad. It cannot be true that in any way my worth or value hinges on whether I own a home or whether I'm renting. That's just another idea that got, you know, implanted by society and frankly, probably a really big real estate industry. Big real estate. Yeah, big real estate. Yeah, yeah, big housing. But it's It really, truly, like where in all of these areas of our life are we sourcing our sense of worth and value based on something external to us? And I guess I feel it's like my soul's path is like, want it all gone. Like I want to let it all go. Like I don't want to be feeling less than for anything. Like I want to know, I want to know on the deepest visceral level. Yeah. My true worth and value is inherent full stop period end of story. Yeah. Not based on anything because the house could go. anything that is temporary or external to us can be taken away. Right. And if our sense of well-being and okayness is reliant on that, well, it's going to be heck of a, we're going to have a heck of a struggle when that goes. Yes, I know. It's why radical acceptance is both terrifying and liberating at the same time. Or that phrase, relax, nothing is under control. It's like the dichotomy of, it feels so safe to attach to something. It gives you a life raft sometimes, but at the same time, you're building your own, whatever you're building. The vulnerability of attaching to that. And I think that's why, closing up the conversation, inviting in this idea of, I think comparison is actually one of the, like all other of those sneaky things that gets in the way of this. Like the pursuit of like, I don't want that anymore. I want to release that. This doesn't feel good to me. It's like, what brings us back is sometimes like, ⁓ but she seems to have it all or they seem to be able to do it. And like, shouldn't I be and they can and like that's, there's these things to watch for like across the board, across situations where like they bring you back, they convince you that like you're wrong and curtains have come down, right? or the curtains have parted, like there's something else here to pursue. And I think it's that repetitive bringing back, bringing back, bringing back a hundred times, 200 times of like, that doesn't feel safe when I do that actually. It feels safe for a hot minute. And then, you know, if I can get something, but if I can't, like that's actually setting me up for failure essentially. Yeah. It is. And also there's no rushing any of this. No, and to this point, it's like, I have not been able to ever make myself or force myself to have these understandings or awarenesses. They have just come at the time that they are. so speaking of which, this 40 day thing, I had attempted to do it two years ago or even three. I looked because I signed up for it again. It's like free. And I was like, I was 12. days into this when I quit last time. And so I was like, clearly just, wasn't ready for it. Like I got so far and now there's this fresh like, oh no, like I am ready for this now. But I couldn't make myself be ready for it then. So I haven't noticed a pattern in my life. I don't know if you have where. I'll start to get exposed to an idea first, like on the periphery. And like I'll dabble in it and then, ah, it's not ready for me. And then I'll come back. Now all of a sudden it comes back into my life a few years later and now I'm ready for it. 100%. I've talked about that so many times. Yes. That's how I feel like it has to be. Stephanie, I feel like we could talk for hours. I know, we better. And clearly, we did not need to. There was like some worrisome thoughts in the beginning of like, are we going to talk about? We're not scripting this. What are we going to talk about? And see, this is why I wanted to record it, because I'm like, such good stuff came out of it. Yeah, different even than I would have thought it would. Like the conversation went a different way. Best kind. Well, this is great. We'll meet again. We'll have to see how listeners like it. Maybe they'll want to hear another conversation in the future. That's right, maybe in ⁓ 36 days. Or 37 days. Maybe it'll have to be a regular segment on our podcast. Let us know. I love how, like, I don't know, I love talking with you. I love how I feel like we're so aligned. I feel like you get it in so many ways. And I also just love how you bring, because we're all unique, a slightly different aspect and perspective to it. And yet, like, I just I see how you get it on such a deep level. And I love that. Me too. Christina, all the... We met and what was it? Like five years ago, see? Five years ago and then we are Who's saying that social media is so terrible? brings these great... For all yes, the yes, we all know it has its downside, but it also has an amazing side too. Because this all just literally started from us following each other on Instagram. It's so good. Thanks for the thanks to your listeners for having me on and... Same to yours. Yeah. And maybe we'll be they enjoyed the conversation. Yeah. Let us know. Let us know listeners. Do you want another conversation with Christy and Stephanie in the future? I'll talk to you later. Okay. Bye guys. Bye. Thanks for listening to Unlearning Beautiful. If this episode resonated with you, follow the show and share it with another woman who's ready to see beauty and herself in a new way. And if you feel moved, leave a rating and review. It will help the show reach more women who need to hear it. Remember, you're already everything you've been trying to become, enough, worthy, and free. I'm Christina Bruce. Until next time.