Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / How She Lost 100 Pounds in Perimenopause and is Building Muscle Over 40 | Ep 319

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How She Lost 100 Pounds in Perimenopause and is Building Muscle Over 40 | Ep 319 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:02
  Philip Pape: If you're over 40 and you've been told that hormonal changes mean you cannot build muscle anymore, or that muscle gain automatically means piling on body fat, this episode is for you.
• 0:13
  Philip Pape: Today I'm talking with my client, cynthia, who's not only lost over 100 pounds, but is now successfully building lean muscle during perimenopause.
• 0:22
  Philip Pape: You'll discover the exact approach she's using to avoid excessive fat gain while increasing muscle mass, why most people are misinformed by the industry about hormones and muscle building, and how to structure your training and nutrition to maximize your body's natural muscle building ability at any age.
• 0:40
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:58
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today I'm really excited to introduce you to one of my Physique University students, cynthia.
• 1:05
  Philip Pape: Cynthia has achieved remarkable like incredible results over her fitness journey, both before and as she's worked with us Over that time, losing over 100 pounds, and now she's focused on building quality muscle during perimenopause, and she's taking some of our systems and strategies and applying them to overcome the challenges that a lot of women face as they experience hormonal changes, and I wanted you guys to hear from her the process she's following, the things that have been moving the needle for her, and then how you can apply some of these lessons to your own journey, no matter what age or stage you're in, because it's never too late, it doesn't matter how old you are.
• 1:42
  Philip Pape: You can make this happen for for yourself.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: So we're going to spend some time diving into cynthia's current goal as well and providing some live, real-time coaching there.
• 1:49
  Philip Pape: There's been no preparation, uh, between us on that, so it's going to be totally seat of the pants here, um, with her goal to add muscle while minimizing fat gain in a transition period.
• 1:59
  Philip Pape: So, cynthia, thank you so much for agreeing to do this and chat with me today.
• 2:02
  Cynthia: Thank you for having me here.
• 2:04
  Cynthia: It's it's an honor to be here.
• 2:05
  Philip Pape: to be honest, oh, I appreciate it.
• 2:08
  Philip Pape: It's an honor to have met you and to work with you, um, and learn about your, your journey, but also see how much you, um how do I say this Like in the community.
• 2:20
  Philip Pape: Every time you checked in and every time you spoke up, it was like a positive, can do attitude.
• 2:25
  Philip Pape: It's like, no matter what the challenge is, I'm going to find a way.
• 2:27
  Philip Pape: You just strike me as the type of person to do that.
• 2:30
  Philip Pape: And look, you lost over a hundred pounds.
• 2:32
  Philip Pape: Most of that was on your own, before we ever met.
• 2:34
  Philip Pape: I'll just be totally honest about that.
• 2:36
  Philip Pape: And now you're tackling muscle building during perimenopause, which is, like many women believe, it's not possible, right?
• 2:43
  Philip Pape: So what made you decide to pursue muscle gain at this stage instead of continuing to focus on weight loss?
• 2:50
  Cynthia: Well, I noticed that people who actually build muscle especially because I started off at 249 pounds that's the farthest that I've ever recorded and I noticed that if I wanted to make this long term like a forever thing, I had to build muscle, especially for the elasticity of my skin, so I didn't have that like hanging skin, loose skin, and so I figured that building muscle was the best option.
• 3:20
  Cynthia: And then when I found out that building muscle actually helps you burn more calories not by a lot, but it's something I'm like well, let's build the muscle then, and that really encouraged me.
• 3:32
  Cynthia: And now, entering menopause or perimenopause, actually I realized the importance of building that muscle.
• 3:40
  Cynthia: And it's not just to look good or feel uh yeah, it's just honestly to to build strong bones, strong skeletal muscle and everything and just be able to last longer and not injure myself as easily, um, as I grow older.
• 3:57
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no.
• 3:58
  Philip Pape: So you mentioned a few really powerful things there.
• 4:00
  Philip Pape: One is the skin elasticity.
• 4:03
  Philip Pape: That's a.
• 4:03
  Philip Pape: That's a cool insight because people don't think about that.
• 4:06
  Philip Pape: But when you have a little extra weight, you, you know, either have some stretch marks or extra skin or loose skin, especially the more overweight you may have been, and people think like none of that's going to go away.
• 4:16
  Philip Pape: How, how has that improved from your journey?
• 4:18
  Philip Pape: It?
• 4:18
  Cynthia: has improved a lot, uh, surprisingly, um, and I do consume a lot of collagen along with my protein, um, but it's not.
• 4:29
  Cynthia: At one point it was a little creepy, but it has.
• 4:33
  Cynthia: Now that I'm seeing the results and building the muscle with it, it doesn't look as as bad as it once, and it's.
• 4:39
  Cynthia: It's not absolutely perfect and, to be honest, I don't ever plan to have surgery on it because I'm just not that kind of person.
• 4:48
  Cynthia: I don't do medicine, to be honest, other than just the supplements and you know, vitamin D and all that collagen protein.
• 4:56
  Cynthia: But it has improved drastically by a lot.
• 5:00
  Philip Pape: So that's great.
• 5:01
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you know that's great because Cause people, people want to know right, Like just that you don't necessarily have to do surgery.
• 5:08
  Philip Pape: Obviously, it depends on how, what level of extreme you want for, and you know if you're if you were 400 pounds, it might be a different story, who knows?
• 5:14
  Philip Pape: Um, the other thing you mentioned is the idea that it burns more calories and more fat just having the muscle, and so why not make what I'm reading between the lines, why not make fat loss easier by focusing on that part of it?
• 5:27
  Cynthia: Yep.
• 5:27
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so yeah, I don't know if you want to comment on that.
• 5:31
  Cynthia: Yeah, definitely For me.
• 5:33
  Cynthia: When I found out that at that time, when I started lifting weights, um, I started off with the adjustable dumbbells and I at that time, probably three or four years ago, I had found out that you can burn about, uh, four to five pounds um once you gain that muscle and I'm like, okay, well, if it helps me burn more and you know you work um, not as hard, to be honest, work smarter, not harder, kind of a thing.
• 6:00
  Cynthia: Um, I decided to do that.
• 6:02
  Philip Pape: So I think, uh, building muscle is the best choice for me personally yeah, no, for for sure, and I mean there's there's pretty much no reason not to right like that.
• 6:12
  Philip Pape: That's one of so many benefits.
• 6:13
  Philip Pape: And the other one you mentioned, perimenopause, right, which obviously any woman listening knows what it is, but maybe for those who don't right, it's like the time when your hormones start to shift toward menopause, which could take take 10, 15 years, some women.
• 6:24
  Philip Pape: It starts as early as their mid-30s.
• 6:27
  Philip Pape: But I just saw an Instagram reel posted today by actually it was a post by Lauren Colenso Semple.
• 6:33
  Philip Pape: She was on the show from Mass and she's been posting these claim versus science and the claim is that perimenopause hormones are going to cause muscle loss, or more muscle loss than not being in perimenopause, and the reality is that's not really true.
• 6:49
  Philip Pape: What causes it is you're not training, yeah, and you, like, are doing the opposite, right?
• 6:56
  Cynthia: Yeah, yeah, and I'm one of those that I've always liked to prove people wrong Not, not in a snobbish way, but I'm like, okay, you say I can't, like, let me just show you there is a better way.
• 7:09
  Cynthia: You know, yeah, and that's one thing.
• 7:11
  Cynthia: I have heard a couple of your podcasts with, uh, like the most recent one, the Holly Baxter one, and then also the Nikki Sims, the Adam Badger and you were talking about perimenopause during that time and just being able to build muscle during, like, because one of the things that I would hear often is you're not going to be able to build muscle and you're going to like all the gaslighting, just the lies that doctors promote, and I'm like is there even hope for me?
• 7:41
  Cynthia: I just started building, you know, my body just recently, and then when I heard your, your courses and also you talking to Holly and Nikki and Adam, I'm like there is hope.
• 7:54
  Cynthia: You just have to do the work.
• 7:55
  Cynthia: You just have to lift the weights, eat enough protein, get enough rest.
• 7:59
  Cynthia: Basically, it's the same thing that I'm doing right now.
• 8:03
  Philip Pape: And yeah sorry, I'm not trying to cut you off.
• 8:08
  Cynthia: But yeah, that encouraged me, so yeah, yeah, no, again.
• 8:11
  Philip Pape: you're just saying things people need to hear, because it makes me sad to think that there's women that are told they literally cannot build muscle, like that's really shameful, that any and I bet it's by a doctor who themselves doesn't lift weights or something you know probably, but it's, it's that it's so.
• 8:27
  Philip Pape: It's even worse than saying you're going to lose a bunch of muscle because of the hormones.
• 8:30
  Philip Pape: It's saying not only that you can't do anything about it and we want to empower people like that.
• 8:34
  Philip Pape: Ultimately, what you're saying is I want to prove you wrong because I have the power.
• 8:39
  Philip Pape: It's on me to do it, and you can either see that as oh geez, now I have to do this work or I get to do this, like I get to train and build muscle.
• 8:47
  Cynthia: Right, so that's awesome, yeah.
• 8:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I know there wasn't a question there.
• 8:51
  Philip Pape: I'm sorry.
• 8:51
  Philip Pape: I like to talk, so I want to.
• 8:52
  Philip Pape: I want to rewind the clock just a little bit, so so folks understand the context here.
• 8:57
  Philip Pape: You lost all that.
• 8:59
  Philip Pape: You lost a bunch of weight too, because people are always looking for weight loss and really we're going to focus more on building and growth and how that helps fat loss.
• 9:05
  Philip Pape: But the a hundred pounds, like, what approach got you through that?
• 9:09
  Philip Pape: And I know you tried things in the past and I, if I recall correctly, didn't you lose weight in the past several times and then gain it back or something, and then right, and now you did it successfully.
• 9:18
  Philip Pape: So what was successful this time?
• 9:20
  Cynthia: Well, um, definitely implementing the weightlifting and eating more protein.
• 9:26
  Cynthia: Protein does satisfy you, which is at first.
• 9:29
  Cynthia: When I started, I'm like it doesn't.
• 9:31
  Cynthia: It doesn't satisfy you.
• 9:33
  Philip Pape: But it was because I was so addicted to carbs and other bad nutrients that it was almost kind of going into a withdrawal of carbs for me because I chose the poor foods a withdrawal of carbs, like for me, because I chose the poor foods and I was so hold on that when you say carbs, you mean like processed foods that have carbs and fat and sugar yeah, yeah, I just want to be clear for the not apples no, not apples okay yeah, so like the, the doritos, the takis kind of a thing, and so it's like eating processed, very processed foods and but when I started implementing the protein because when I started the my weight loss journey, I did start tracking, but I wasn't tracking macros, I was just tracking calories and then I started learning about macros.
• 10:22
  Cynthia: And when I started learning about macros I realized I was under eating, way under eating protein.
• 10:27
  Cynthia: When I changed that and I started eating more protein, probably like in six months, my body started changing and quick, and that was like the fastest I've ever seen it change and shift.
• 10:39
  Cynthia: And yeah, just eating enough protein, enough fats, enough carbs, like personally, I love being balanced.
• 10:48
  Cynthia: I think they are all good and beneficial for the body, um, but it's not just uh.
• 10:55
  Cynthia: For me it's not just tracking the calories, it's all of it.
• 10:59
  Philip Pape: That's, that's huge.
• 10:59
  Philip Pape: What you just said is it wasn't about the calorie deficit, even though the end result is a calorie deficit.
• 11:05
  Philip Pape: It was what you were eating, the composition, what you're eating, eating things that nourished you.
• 11:09
  Philip Pape: And it's funny you said protein.
• 11:11
  Philip Pape: You're like, oh, they tell you it's satisfying.
• 11:13
  Philip Pape: It's not Obviously when you're coming from a world of like the dopamine hit of carbs and sugar.
• 11:18
  Philip Pape: It's like having a sweet tooth and then someone says, well, go eat an apple.
• 11:22
  Philip Pape: And you're like, yeah, that's not the same as a Snickers and you kind of have to desensitize and there's a transition period.
• 11:30
  Philip Pape: But then there's also the fullness piece of being satisfied, where it sounds like you didn't focus on cutting stuff, you focus on adding in the right things and then it resulted in more volume, more satisfaction and then lower calories.
• 11:41
  Philip Pape: You weren't trying to necessarily, but it resulted in that.
• 11:43
  Philip Pape: Is that a fair assessment?
• 11:45
  Cynthia: Yes, yeah, okay.
• 11:46
  Philip Pape: Okay, which is great, because a lot of people I taught you do talk about calories a lot and I do talk about calorie deficits, um, but I I also talk about doing in conjunction with these things.
• 11:56
  Philip Pape: So what now I'm curious about when you join physique university?
• 11:58
  Philip Pape: I feel like there's two types of folks that join us, um, on hand, you have folks who are kind of new to all this.
• 12:05
  Philip Pape: Maybe they listen to the podcast and they're just trying to figure it out, and they jump in a little frustrated.
• 12:09
  Philip Pape: They're like things haven't worked.
• 12:11
  Philip Pape: I'm looking for guidance and help, and so we give them that, like step by step, and the support You're in the other camp of.
• 12:17
  Philip Pape: You've leveled up your education.
• 12:18
  Philip Pape: You've tried things already.
• 12:19
  Philip Pape: You've gotten to a point that's a little more advanced and I love I love both groups of people honestly, because they both, like, thrill me in their, the level of knowledge that they can get to from that point.
• 12:30
  Philip Pape: So I think of you as a more advanced person, but you still probably had some things you didn't know and that you learned, and I'm curious about what those might have been.
• 12:39
  Cynthia: Yeah, for sure, one of the biggest things that I learned was, um, not having to diet for a full year, because before I thought I had to be on a deficit for a long period of time to lose the weight and gain muscle.
• 12:53
  Cynthia: So basically I was kind of starving myself, but not really.
• 12:56
  Cynthia: You know, it's just I didn't have to put myself through through that deficit and just knowing that you could be on a deficit for three to four months and that's enough, and then go on maintenance and then go on a bulk for the rest of the year and then start again next year.
• 13:13
  Cynthia: You know, um, that definitely helped.
• 13:15
  Cynthia: And another thing was, um, just eating.
• 13:19
  Cynthia: I love eating apples, so just eating different kinds of apples and getting the different kinds of benefits, that's one thing that I learned from from Physique University.
• 13:30
  Cynthia: And, and then just measurements.
• 13:34
  Cynthia: It's another one, like before, I never, when I would measure my biceps, like I would never, I would always measure it with my arm down, and then you, you know, talk about, you know, just make sure you flex, and I'm like, well, then I'm, I have a bigger bicep, of course, if I do that.
• 13:51
  Cynthia: But a lot of the things that you were teaching in the courses is a lot of things that I had learned, and so when I had found out about you through the macro factor app, a lot of people were, you know, vouching for you, saying that you're a good coach, and I'm like, okay, well, I have to check this guy out and see what he has to teach, and so it was pretty legit to me.
• 14:16
  Philip Pape: I'm like, I'm sold, this is good information yeah, and I appreciate you putting a sales pitch on for me, even though I sometimes get uncomfortable and folks listening are like, oh no, this is Philip, turning this into a sales pitch.
• 14:29
  Philip Pape: But what I think is important is just understanding whether you work with me or not work with me or you seek out information that there are things to learn.
• 14:37
  Philip Pape: There are always things to learn.
• 14:39
  Philip Pape: We should always be seeking out the information, and that if you're struggling in any way, um, there's probably an easier, a more efficient way, and that that's kind of where the curiosity piece comes in.
• 14:49
  Philip Pape: So you mentioned number one, periodization.
• 14:51
  Philip Pape: Right, you didn't say the word, but that's effectively.
• 14:53
  Philip Pape: What you're talking about is where and this is one of the first things I learned as a coach and we talk about is, um, aligning your dieting and your and some people don't even like the word dieting but your mild fat loss, calorie deficits and your muscle building phases and maintenance with the year, with the seasons, with how you feel and your stress and your lifestyle, like just whatever makes sense, and knowing that you can ebb and flow between them and that if you diet too hard, too long, it has a negative impact on your long-term results.
• 15:19
  Philip Pape: Right, it keeps you stagnant.
• 15:25
  Philip Pape: You mentioned the apples.
• 15:26
  Philip Pape: It's funny because I actually stole that idea from one of my guests oh my gosh, and I can't even remember now.
• 15:28
  Philip Pape: This is terrible, but he was talking about gut health and the diversity of compounds and lectins in apples.
• 15:34
  Philip Pape: And if we have different types of skins, you get different food for your bacteria, different strains of your bacteria, and then you have a more diverse gut microbiome and we know the gut is like the second brain and connected to everything.
• 15:45
  Philip Pape: And then the measurements.
• 15:46
  Philip Pape: It's so funny you say that because the little things like oh, you should flex your bicep are just the kind.
• 15:51
  Philip Pape: Cynthia, I get questions by email every day with these little things like, uh, macro factors telling me 0.7 grams per pound of my protein.
• 15:58
  Philip Pape: But I read it's supposed to be one and I'm like, okay, here we go again.
• 16:00
  Philip Pape: Like it's one of those things people have heard stuff through the grape vine and let's just help them out anyway.
• 16:05
  Philip Pape: Um, okay, so let's talk about some of the some of the other mindset shifts that I think are important for people to get into that you mentioned to me before.
• 16:14
  Philip Pape: One thing was, um, cutting versus maintenance and bulking, which we just touched on a little bit.
• 16:19
  Philip Pape: But since you're going to enter, or you have entered, muscle building phase, did you have any like fear about gaining weight?
• 16:26
  Philip Pape: Was there uncertainty, anything like that?
• 16:28
  Philip Pape: Since you were so good at dieting, was it kind of scary to you or were you pretty confident going into it?
• 16:35
  Cynthia: Well, with the muscle building, that was easy, but with the increase in calories that was scary.
• 16:42
  Philip Pape: Okay, okay.
• 16:42
  Philip Pape: So that you mean okay.
• 16:43
  Philip Pape: So you mean the lifting weights to build muscle is easy.
• 16:46
  Philip Pape: Everybody loves that.
• 16:47
  Philip Pape: It's the eating.
• 16:48
  Cynthia: More weight was hard, yeah it's like I don't know, especially coming from 250 pounds, you know, rounding um, I'm like I don't know if I want to go back there.
• 16:58
  Cynthia: There.
• 16:59
  Cynthia: It's that kind of thing like what, if I gain a lot of fat and because I was, this is honestly my first real bulk Um, I've never tried it before.
• 17:10
  Cynthia: It was just normally um deficits and maintenance.
• 17:14
  Cynthia: Um, I was, I was afraid of increasing the calories and gaining weight.
• 17:19
  Philip Pape: Um, but yeah, Well, okay, so I think you started out.
• 17:22
  Philip Pape: You don't mind me sharing some numbers.
• 17:23
  Philip Pape: Right, you started at, I think, one 38 in February, which is two months ago, your goals, one 50 by July, which for a lot of women hearing that level of weight, that is scary to some.
• 17:35
  Philip Pape: I imagine it's 12 pounds.
• 17:36
  Philip Pape: It's totally normal in my mind, cause I've worked with people that are bulked and like men will typically gain 15 to 25 pounds and women will gain like 10 to 15, unless they're very afraid to put on weight, and then it's like, okay, we'll dial it back, go really lean and do like five or 10 pounds, just to kind of put your feet in the water.
• 17:53
  Philip Pape: Um, how has the process been going physically and emotionally so far?
• 17:58
  Cynthia: It's actually been good.
• 18:00
  Cynthia: To be honest, when I first started, cause when you first gave me the recommendations and everything, I'm like I don't know if I want to do this 150?
• 18:09
  Cynthia: , are you sure?
• 18:10
  Cynthia: But then when I started it, I haven't really.
• 18:15
  Cynthia: I don't feel swollen, I don't feel pudgy and I have been seeing results, especially in my arms, my shoulders.
• 18:22
  Cynthia: I feel like I've been gaining more muscle and, um, I'm actually liking what I'm seeing.
• 18:29
  Cynthia: Um, that's great, did you?
• 18:32
  Philip Pape: have you been tracking your measurements like Navy body fat percentage or using the physique tracker?
• 18:37
  Cynthia: Yeah, yes, I have.
• 18:38
  Philip Pape: What has it shown?
• 18:40
  Cynthia: Um, it from February.
• 18:42
  Cynthia: Well, I'll start it since January, because I started like I'm like I'm going to start January.
• 18:48
  Cynthia: Since January until now so far, I've gained about I don't know if it's fast enough, but about four pounds of muscle and not too much fat.
• 18:57
  Cynthia: That's incredible.
• 18:59
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that's incredible, that's great.
• 19:00
  Cynthia: Oh, I'm actually liking the results.
• 19:04
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I think actually actually.
• 19:05
  Philip Pape: No, now that I have I do have your I should have looked at my notes.
• 19:08
  Philip Pape: I think you said like five pounds of lean mass and three pounds of body fat, something like that, something like that yeah you do the math.
• 19:13
  Philip Pape: Five out of eight is right, exactly where we would expect someone to be.
• 19:17
  Philip Pape: Like two-thirds, you know, 50 to 75 percent, that is good.
• 19:22
  Philip Pape: If you're gaining less than 50 muscle and more fat, um, that's a little bit less effective.
• 19:27
  Philip Pape: But look, any muscles, muscle.
• 19:29
  Philip Pape: You can cut off the fat.
• 19:30
  Cynthia: So yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
• 19:31
  Cynthia: With some of the fat.
• 19:33
  Cynthia: It's like I still put on my jeans when I was smaller, a little smaller before the bulk.
• 19:38
  Cynthia: I'm like they feel loose still.
• 19:40
  Cynthia: So I'm I'm.
• 19:42
  Cynthia: It looks good on my clothes, my clothes look good on me, so I'm not disappointed.
• 19:47
  Philip Pape: Good and you can definitely lean into that.
• 19:48
  Philip Pape: We talk about like the non-scale victories and stuff.
• 19:51
  Philip Pape: I know some women, and men too, are concerned about um, gaining the fat gaining part and how that's going to affect them and like having to deal with that for a time, and I think you mentioned, when we were preparing for this, how it messes with your head, like as a woman.
• 20:06
  Philip Pape: You were saying specifically, can you just talk more about that, like how you worked through it if you had to, or advice for others.
• 20:13
  Cynthia: Um well, it does mess with your head.
• 20:16
  Cynthia: I don't know how to explain it.
• 20:19
  Cynthia: It's just for me, because of my past history, my only concern was going back to being obese and in a way, I've trained my mind to just like.
• 20:34
  Cynthia: I would envision myself digging my heels on the ground and being like I'm going to keep pushing through it and I'm not going anywhere, like I'm not going back to old Cynthia.
• 20:45
  Cynthia: This is new Cynthia and this is going to be a forever thing.
• 20:48
  Cynthia: And so it's just determining, making that determination and even with the weight loss when I first started it about four years ago, is this there comes a period where you have enough.
• 21:00
  Cynthia: You're like I'm done, I quit, like I don't want to look like this, I don't want to feel like this.
• 21:05
  Cynthia: And I even did a like a vision board and I put images of myself when I was heavy, but I also put images of people that I wanted to look like muscular, and I would just look at that vision board and just encourage myself through that and I'm like that will be my reality.
• 21:24
  Cynthia: And I would often tell myself that is going to be my reality and just just trucking through and trying to make it happen.
• 21:33
  Cynthia: And I mean because people can always make excuses and I was tired of the excuses.
• 21:38
  Cynthia: I'm like I can say this you know, I have five kids, I have to homeschool, I have to clean house, I have to go shopping and you know I have to be a wife.
• 21:47
  Cynthia: But when it comes to your health and you're getting older, it's like it's better to be healthy.
• 21:53
  Cynthia: I also had like issues with hives.
• 21:56
  Cynthia: Sometimes I would get hives in my body and certain um blotches on my skin.
• 22:02
  Cynthia: I'm like I don't, I don't like this.
• 22:03
  Cynthia: I don't like having feeling the love handles.
• 22:06
  Cynthia: I don't like you know, and just calling things out for what they really are, you know and being like I don't want this, this has to go now.
• 22:16
  Cynthia: what am to do?
• 22:17
  Cynthia: And at first it was tedious.
• 22:20
  Cynthia: I remember when I first started doing a back lunge I'm like, oh boy, I'm bad, I can't even do a back lunge.
• 22:26
  Cynthia: This is embarrassing, but I'm like it's better than nothing.
• 22:30
  Cynthia: It's better than nothing.
• 22:31
  Cynthia: And I kept encouraging myself like, start small, but start somewhere.
• 22:36
  Cynthia: And probably it took about four or five months to see real results not as quickly, but it took.
• 22:43
  Cynthia: It took some time.
• 22:45
  Cynthia: It's just being patient and doing the right thing and just not quitting.
• 22:49
  Philip Pape: You, you, you just said, like every key point that I wish people understood about this, like patience to change.
• 22:57
  Philip Pape: You have to change, you have to accept some discomfort.
• 22:59
  Philip Pape: It's going to take time, like the first week, month, three months might not show you all the results you want, but it's going to chip away at it.
• 23:08
  Philip Pape: And then you just said, like look, I wasn't taking it anymore Like I have.
• 23:13
  Philip Pape: I have this identity inside me and now I want to physically manifest that identity, like that's what I'm getting from you.
• 23:18
  Philip Pape: And you're right, no excuses.
• 23:20
  Philip Pape: You've got a busy life, you've got a family to take care of.
• 23:22
  Philip Pape: We were talking about that before.
• 23:23
  Philip Pape: We recorded just how much is going on.
• 23:25
  Philip Pape: And, like you know, you're looking forward to summer.
• 23:27
  Philip Pape: You're, you're honest with yourself, right, you're looking forward to kind of a little more relaxing season of the year before you go after it again.
• 23:33
  Philip Pape: Um, so potentially that's really good for muscle building too, is the low stress, so that's really good.
• 23:39
  Philip Pape: Let's dig into your current goal a little bit, because I'd love to tease out any refinements or optimization or anything, just to make sure you're on the best track you can be.
• 23:48
  Philip Pape: You're trying to build muscle with minimal body fat during perimenopause Impossible, right?
• 23:53
  Cynthia: You're doing it.
• 23:55
  Philip Pape: Are there any specific challenges you're facing right now that you want to talk about?
• 23:59
  Cynthia: Well, I guess I'm still learning about perimenopause, and so I want to know if there are certain foods or supplements, I guess, to prevent waking Like well, besides muscle, I guess, what are common hormonal shifts that I can expect during this time, and what can I do about it?
• 24:26
  Cynthia: To you know, prevent it, to get ahead of it in a way?
• 24:29
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:29
  Philip Pape: So it's really good timing too, because one of my private clients sent me a message today.
• 24:35
  Philip Pape: She went to the doctor and got hormone, some hormone replacement therapy going on right Progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, dhea those are the big ones.
• 24:45
  Philip Pape: Sometimes people need thyroid meds.
• 24:47
  Philip Pape: My general philosophy on this again, I'm not a woman, but worked with a lot and talked to a lot of professionals on this is obviously your number one supplement is strength training, like that's my answer, that's your number one.
• 24:59
  Philip Pape: Big time, big time.
• 25:00
  Philip Pape: Because again, this client called me and she's like the doctor was surprised at how far better my numbers were than she would expect for someone of her age.
• 25:10
  Philip Pape: Okay, everybody cringes when they hear that, right, cause it's like come on, um, and the doctor's like, keep doing what you're doing.
• 25:16
  Philip Pape: And she's like, how's your food?
• 25:17
  Philip Pape: She's like, well, I eat a lot of carbs and I eat pretty balanced.
• 25:20
  Philip Pape: And she's like, well, your blood sugar is perfect too.
• 25:22
  Philip Pape: So keep doing what you're doing.
• 25:23
  Philip Pape: And she's.
• 25:24
  Philip Pape: And yet she still needs a little bit of hormone therapy for, um, testosterone and progesterone and estrogen.
• 25:31
  Philip Pape: Progesterone and estrogen decline, right, um, testosterone declines as well.
• 25:36
  Philip Pape: The funny thing about testosterone, cynthia, is, like you know, women have like one.
• 25:40
  Philip Pape: What is it?
• 25:41
  Philip Pape: 110th or 120th the amount of men, but it's still the largest amount of hormone in your body, you know, compared to all the like.
• 25:51
  Philip Pape: A lot of women don't realize that, and so guess what stimulates it the most?
• 25:55
  Philip Pape: Strength training, like strength training, stimulates testosterone and IGF-1.
• 25:58
  Philip Pape: And then you can't do anything about the decline of your hormones in perimenopause, into menopause it's being a woman.
• 26:05
  Philip Pape: What I do understand, though, is that the lifestyle things that you're doing and anyone listening can incorporate with lifting and just eating to nourish your body and not dieting all the time.
• 26:16
  Philip Pape: That mitigates a significant portion of, let's say, symptoms from the hormones.
• 26:22
  Philip Pape: Having said that, I'm a big fan of hormone replacement therapy if you need it.
• 26:25
  Philip Pape: So working with not necessarily a GP, usually it's like a hormone specialist, sometimes functional doctors even though I have a little skepticism of functional medicine in general, I think the hormone area of it they probably are a little bit ahead of some of the conventional medicine.
• 26:42
  Philip Pape: It depends where you get your panels checked.
• 26:45
  Philip Pape: It's not just blood work.
• 26:46
  Philip Pape: You get urine metabolites, maybe saliva, like all the stuff.
• 26:50
  Philip Pape: You know the free, the floating versions of the hormones, and not just the bound versions of the hormones, all of that right, um, sex, binding sex.
• 26:58
  Philip Pape: You know what I'm trying to say.
• 27:00
  Philip Pape: Shgb, I can't think of it right now.
• 27:02
  Philip Pape: Globulin, right, get all that checked and just be sure that you're doing the lifestyle and then whatever's left gets treated.
• 27:09
  Philip Pape: So that's kind of like my big answer to all that.
• 27:12
  Philip Pape: As far as foods and everything, I think that's kind of I don't think there's really an answer.
• 27:17
  Philip Pape: I don't think there are hormone supporting foods.
• 27:19
  Philip Pape: I don't think there are hormone-supporting foods.
• 27:20
  Philip Pape: I think eating enough fiber, protein and balance is the answer.
• 27:25
  Cynthia: Does that answer the question?
• 27:26
  Cynthia: Yeah, so basically yeah, because that's the same thing that I've been hearing from you and from some podcasts that I heard from you Just keeping it the same and just don't believe the lie of there's no hope for you.
• 27:41
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and I would encourage, like, if you're interested, uh, cynthia, definitely check out.
• 27:46
  Philip Pape: Be careful, cause there are a lot of hormone podcasts and not all of them are like legit or fully evidence-based.
• 27:52
  Philip Pape: Um, karen Martell she's been on the show a couple of times.
• 27:55
  Philip Pape: Um, and I've been on hers.
• 27:58
  Philip Pape: Hers, all her hormone stuff is really sound Like she brings on a ton of experts, talks about it all the time.
• 28:02
  Philip Pape: I, you know her nutrition and training stuff is not always aligned, but that's fine, you know she, she has her approach, but her hormone stuff is great.
• 28:10
  Philip Pape: So if you can find a few people and there's other folks I've had on who really know their stuff, like a lot more than I do with about hormone therapy Definitely listen to a bunch of people and like make critical, you know, use critical thinking and apply it for yourself and do the research.
• 28:24
  Cynthia: But yeah, yeah for sure, cause I'm I'm one of those with a more natural approach.
• 28:30
  Cynthia: The more natural the better, and especially my husband being in the medical field.
• 28:36
  Cynthia: There's just a lot of side effects to to medicine and I'm like I I, if I could do it more naturally, then that's the way to go.
• 28:45
  Cynthia: But if, if not possible, we'll see, we'll see, you know, I think you could do it vastly naturally.
• 28:53
  Philip Pape: Um, if you have the way you're doing, it is setting yourself yourself up for the best outcome period.
• 28:59
  Philip Pape: Um, if anything, you're in a good position to maybe get some of the at least get your panels checked, like, if you haven't yet get it checked, just so you know.
• 29:07
  Philip Pape: Like I get my testosterone checked, I just want to know, I'm like, if it drops at some point despite doing everything, and there's a medical solution, at least I know that option's available, right, if I want to do it.
• 29:17
  Philip Pape: What's the other thing about supplements is I think you know my philosophy on this, but just for folks listening, be very careful with all the supplement recommendations out there.
• 29:26
  Philip Pape: I think there's a core small set of supplements that most people should consider.
• 29:30
  Philip Pape: We've got multivitamins to potentially fill in some gaps in your nutrition, but if you eat a lot of whole foods, you should be covered there.
• 29:37
  Philip Pape: Magnesium is really good.
• 29:40
  Philip Pape: Um, most people are deficient in magnesium.
• 29:42
  Philip Pape: I know you take it right.
• 29:43
  Cynthia: I take it every day.
• 29:44
  Cynthia: I love it yeah.
• 29:45
  Philip Pape: It's great.
• 29:46
  Philip Pape: And then, um, you know creatine, absolutely, I think everybody from like two years old to 98, you know like everybody should take creatine, especially now that we're discovering cognitive benefits and like zero downsides, unless you're a tiny fraction of people who get allergic to it.
• 30:00
  Philip Pape: Okay, sorry, or you just don't respond to it.
• 30:03
  Philip Pape: And even if you don't respond to it, you might want to take it for the cognitive benefits, right, oh?
• 30:08
  Philip Pape: cool yeah Um fish oil if you don't need enough fatty fish.
• 30:11
  Philip Pape: You know for the Omega threes, we know there's health protective benefits for for oxidative stress and things like that for your um inflammatory process.
• 30:20
  Philip Pape: And again, inflammation is another trigger words, india.
• 30:23
  Philip Pape: Because, like, if you're training and eating properly and being active like you're, you're giving yourself a pro inflammatory, counter inflammatory environment, right, like a low inflammation environment.
• 30:33
  Philip Pape: Uh, what else did I forget anything?
• 30:36
  Philip Pape: Is there anything else you take?
• 30:38
  Cynthia: Um, well, definitely the vitamin D, but I get that from the sun, so I always one of the things that also helped me, besides the steps, getting a lot of steps done Um, after every meal, I walk for 15 minutes, like right after, just to just to get myself active, and um, most days I like being outdoors at least for 30 minutes.
• 31:00
  Cynthia: Um, just to get that vitamin D from the sun and fresh air.
• 31:04
  Cynthia: I feel like there's healing properties and just getting sun and fresh air and it's just relaxing.
• 31:11
  Philip Pape: I agree I have a sheen of sweat right now because Connecticut has been like 45 degrees one day, 70 degrees the next, 40 degrees.
• 31:18
  Philip Pape: So I'm like I'm like hot and cold, but I just went out for a walk, the next 40 degrees.
• 31:20
  Philip Pape: So I'm like I'm like hot and cold, but I just went out for a walk and I got in here and I'm like it's gonna be nice and cool in the house.
• 31:23
  Philip Pape: No, the sun's kind of anyway.
• 31:24
  Philip Pape: Um, vitamin, but vitamin D is a good one.
• 31:27
  Philip Pape: Some people do need to still supplement if they don't have enough of their super pale, like us.
• 31:31
  Philip Pape: Um, okay, so so that's supplements.
• 31:35
  Philip Pape: What about?
• 31:36
  Philip Pape: Is there any aspect of?
• 31:37
  Philip Pape: Is there any aspect you feel needs more refinement?
• 31:40
  Philip Pape: Or you're like experimenting with and not quite sure yet with, like the muscle building or the training or anything like that?
• 31:46
  Cynthia: I guess, because right now I'm training mostly three days a week and I don't know if I should increase it to four or five.
• 31:54
  Cynthia: I guess one of the things that I've been learning, especially from your podcast with Adam, it was patience, having patience Because I didn't realize, because I remember in the past people would say that if women lift weights they're going to bulk and be like She-Hulk, and obviously it's not true.
• 32:16
  Cynthia: Building muscle for women.
• 32:18
  Cynthia: I don't know how it is for men, but for myself I'm like this ain't so easy and I would like to get bigger shoulders.
• 32:27
  Cynthia: I just I like the bigger shoulders.
• 32:29
  Cynthia: Personally, I wouldn't be ashamed of that.
• 32:33
  Philip Pape: Okay, awesome, awesome.
• 32:34
  Philip Pape: So I hear a couple questions I want to answer.
• 32:35
  Philip Pape: I'm going to go backward and start with the shoulders because, um, a friend of mine just sent me a link to a real I think it was actually Dr Mike Israel.
• 32:44
  Philip Pape: He's got some really funny stuff out there, but he was doing um, wasn't him doing it?
• 32:49
  Philip Pape: I think?
• 32:50
  Philip Pape: No, no, no, it wasn't him.
• 32:52
  Philip Pape: It was actually Alex Hormozy, who's like a marketing expert, he's also jacked and he like got his start in the gym industry and he was showing lat raises.
• 33:00
  Philip Pape: Do you do lat raises?
• 33:01
  Philip Pape: Yeah, okay, so you probably do them the traditional way, where it's like pour the cup and bring it above your shoulders.
• 33:08
  Cynthia: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 33:09
  Cynthia: Is that how you normally do it?
• 33:10
  Cynthia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the most part, yeah.
• 33:13
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and the theory being that's like full range of motion.
• 33:21
  Philip Pape: But think about the biomechanics.
• 33:22
  Philip Pape: The lengthened portion is actually at the bottom, not at the top.
• 33:23
  Philip Pape: The top is actually you're contracting, you know.
• 33:25
  Philip Pape: It's the shortened version.
• 33:26
  Philip Pape: The length is actually kind of in the middle to the bottom and you notice we usually just kind of fly through that position and we go up to the top.
• 33:33
  Philip Pape: Well, he said look what if you overload, you know, go really heavy right when you can barely get them past like 45 degrees and just go to failure and see if it doesn't completely build your outside lateral caps here on your shoulders.
• 33:46
  Philip Pape: And I'm like I I had the rotator cuff surgery, so like I can't even do lat raises without a little bit of pain.
• 33:52
  Philip Pape: So I kind of do other stuff instead, like front raises and pressing and other.
• 33:56
  Philip Pape: But I'm going to try those and you might want to try them the shoulders are a thing for you and just throw them in, like at the end and, due to failure, three or four sets of really really, really heavy but only like half range.
• 34:08
  Philip Pape: Now people are listening to me, like the bros are listening like, oh, my God, you can't do that.
• 34:11
  Philip Pape: You're supposed to come all the way up.
• 34:12
  Philip Pape: That's not proper form.
• 34:13
  Philip Pape: Depends on the purpose.
• 34:15
  Philip Pape: If you're literally just trying to hit this small outside part and you can overload it in a partial and that partial is the lengthened see what happens, try it out.
• 34:23
  Cynthia: Yeah, I did.
• 34:24
  Cynthia: I heard Jeff Knipred talk about that lengthened partials and that piqued my curiosity.
• 34:30
  Cynthia: I'm like, oh, so you don't have to do full range of motion.
• 34:33
  Philip Pape: Then I'm like, okay, yeah, and the jury's out on like, should you do it only length and partials?
• 34:39
  Philip Pape: I think the consensus is is you know, do full range of motion and then some length and partials.
• 34:44
  Philip Pape: The benefit of the length and partials is depending on the advantage of the biomechanics of the lift.
• 34:49
  Philip Pape: You can overload it and hit it harder, right, and that that's the advantage.
• 34:53
  Philip Pape: It's, it's you know, right.
• 34:55
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like when you do a close grip bench press, people are like, well is well, is that for the shoulders or the chest?
• 35:00
  Philip Pape: It's like, yes, it's actually for both, and if you think about it, you're overloading the triceps quite a bit because you're helping it with the chest.
• 35:07
  Philip Pape: So there's a part of the motion that's getting really, really hit with a high load and there's some magic in that, okay, so, going backward into the other two things you mentioned, you mentioned um.
• 35:22
  Philip Pape: To the other two things you mentioned, you mentioned um three days a week.
• 35:24
  Philip Pape: And then there was one other thing you mentioned I wanted to make sure not to forget.
• 35:26
  Philip Pape: You said three days a week and you said um, patients or something bulking oh, the bulking piece.
• 35:28
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, I've talked that to death in this podcast.
• 35:30
  Philip Pape: Look, I have trouble building muscle.
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: Any woman listening, don't worry about it.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: I think she Hulk's pretty sexy anyway.
• 35:35
  Philip Pape: But listen, between completely thin like rail thin supermodel and she Hulk, it's all beautiful.
• 35:42
  Philip Pape: Build the muscle is my take on it.
• 35:47
  Cynthia: Let's be healthy and strong.
• 35:48
  Philip Pape: Yes, Be a healthy, strong human and you will be beautiful inside and out.
• 35:51
  Philip Pape: All right, Um so three days a week.
• 35:53
  Philip Pape: So here's my question to you is, um, what is your goal right now?
• 35:58
  Philip Pape: Not just building muscle, but I mean you said you wanted to specialize on your shoulders.
• 36:02
  Philip Pape: Is there anything else you're focused on?
• 36:05
  Cynthia: Uh, I definitely the quads and the glutes.
• 36:11
  Philip Pape: Why am I not surprised?
• 36:12
  Philip Pape: Um, okay, so in that case, and your three day a week, is it full body or is it like push pull?
• 36:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah?
• 36:18
  Philip Pape: They're all full body they're all full body, okay, yeah, all right, and are you doing primarily the same movements all three days?
• 36:25
  Philip Pape: Are you rotating?
• 36:26
  Cynthia: no, rotating, it's a different um.
• 36:28
  Cynthia: I actually got a workout program from marcus philly okay, yeah sure yeah, and so he changes it fairly frequently and my husband is the one that got it.
• 36:39
  Cynthia: I'm like, well, you paid for it, I'll just I'll just use that, hey it never hurts to try things out.
• 36:45
  Philip Pape: I'm all for that.
• 36:46
  Philip Pape: Does it?
• 36:46
  Philip Pape: Does it at least um repeat some of the same exercises for at least a few weeks, so you can progress, yeah?
• 36:52
  Cynthia: Yeah, so he normally gives it like for six increments, but throughout the weeks, like there's conventional deadlifts and bench presses and you know different things, yeah.
• 37:02
  Philip Pape: Okay, are you trying to push your numbers and build like a peak of strength and get super strong on on the lifts you know for function, for bone density, for ego, whatever.
• 37:13
  Philip Pape: Or are you trying to just like build your physique Both?
• 37:18
  Cynthia: Both, because I actually I mean, I have been pushing myself and doing lifting heavier.
• 37:24
  Cynthia: There are days that I just I don't feel as strong, so I do lower the weight a little bit, but then there are other days you can't do that.
• 37:33
  Philip Pape: You can't do that, I'm just kidding.
• 37:34
  Philip Pape: No, no, that's good.
• 37:36
  Philip Pape: Listen to your body, okay.
• 37:37
  Philip Pape: So here's my thought is in general.
• 37:39
  Philip Pape: I'm just I'm throwing out a bunch of generalities, cynthia, you're going to have to try it yourself.
• 37:46
  Philip Pape: In general, once you get past that novice stage, which I think you are, um, a four or even five day split can be more effective, usually because you can get more frequency and more sets, like it's just more volume.
• 37:55
  Philip Pape: Um, unless you're doing like two and a half hour sessions on the full body days I suspect they're not that long Then four days of like an hour of training maybe up to an hour and a half, depending on what you have time for can be potentially more effective, just because you're getting a little more volume.
• 38:09
  Philip Pape: We know that 10 to 20 sets per week is like the sweet spot, pushing toward the upper range if you really want to be optimal.
• 38:17
  Philip Pape: So like if you're only getting 10 or eight, then you're kind of right on that hairy edge of like you could push it more and get more results.
• 38:25
  Philip Pape: I never want you to go to so far that you can't recover or it's not sustainable for you.
• 38:30
  Philip Pape: But because you're eating and in a surplus, you've got the resources, you've got the calories.
• 38:34
  Philip Pape: So a four day split instead of doing three day full body where you did upper, lower, upper, lower.
• 38:41
  Philip Pape: And if you're trying to build glutes and quads, I don't think you need to do like three lower body days and one upper.
• 38:46
  Philip Pape: You don't have to like bias it that much.
• 38:48
  Philip Pape: Two and two is good.
• 38:50
  Philip Pape: You can obviously do a five-day program and then have an extra leg day, but as long as you're hitting it hard in the two lower days with squats and with with squats and um, extensions and curls and you know variations on deadlifts and all that just the classic stuff you should be able to build your glutes and quads.
• 39:08
  Philip Pape: Now I have a lot of great ideas for quad development that people don't think about, um, and one that I haven't even done myself but I'm sharing from my coach, andy Baker.
• 39:16
  Philip Pape: He mentioned it once on the podcast.
• 39:18
  Philip Pape: Is the Cambridge bar squat.
• 39:19
  Philip Pape: You go to a gym or is that at home?
• 39:21
  Philip Pape: Home, okay, so you probably don't have that.
• 39:23
  Philip Pape: Okay, then in that case, do you have a safety bar squat or just a traditional barbell?
• 39:29
  Cynthia: Um a safety bar.
• 39:30
  Cynthia: Yeah, Okay.
• 39:32
  Philip Pape: So, with a safety bar, what you could do?
• 39:34
  Philip Pape: Do you have a way to raise your heels Like um wed?
• 39:39
  Philip Pape: I do have a wedge yeah you have a wedge, okay, so do that while wearing squat shoes, because that'll raise your heel even more.
• 39:45
  Philip Pape: And put it a little bit narrow stance and just do safety bar squats.
• 39:50
  Philip Pape: They're effectively going to be like a front squat, because you're going to have to be really upright to to stay balanced and that is going to slam your quads like nothing it's.
• 39:58
  Philip Pape: It's almost like doing a sissy squat, but in a more controlled, loaded way, gotcha, so that's one.
• 40:04
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like a plat squat, but on steroids.
• 40:07
  Philip Pape: Um, so that's one thought.
• 40:09
  Philip Pape: And then for, and then glutes.
• 40:11
  Philip Pape: I mean you know what for glutes you could do cable pull throughs, you could do rate, hip bridges and glute raises and hip.
• 40:17
  Philip Pape: You know all that stuff, right?
• 40:18
  Philip Pape: Um, I mean, basically squats are your number one friend for that as well, and deadlifts too, uh, to be honest.
• 40:23
  Philip Pape: But you could do like, um, you know lateral stuff, you know split squats and step ups and lunges, whatever you like to, to kind of bring in the glutes and the hammies together as a system and then really load the glutes that way.
• 40:36
  Philip Pape: Um, where am I going with all of this is the four days and then making sure you're specializing in the specific muscle groups you want, while just hitting the main lifts.
• 40:44
  Philip Pape: The main lifts once or twice and then all the other stuff for bodybuilding should be good.
• 40:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, okay, as far as an actual program, I mean, that's, we're not gonna, I'm not going to give you that here, but we could talk.
• 40:56
  Cynthia: Yeah, oh, awesome and normally um here.
• 41:02
  Cynthia: But we can talk yeah, oh, awesome and normally um.
• 41:03
  Cynthia: What is the normal rate for me to gain muscle, let's say monthly, or for women in general, like what's, what's what's considered normal to 20 pounds a month?
• 41:08
  Philip Pape: 20 pounds a month Just kidding.
• 41:12
  Philip Pape: You know how much you'd have to eat.
• 41:13
  Philip Pape: Okay, so I generally say one to two pounds a month for women.
• 41:17
  Philip Pape: That's like super general ballpark.
• 41:19
  Philip Pape: I generally say one to two pounds a month for women.
• 41:21
  Philip Pape: That's like super general ballpark.
• 41:23
  Philip Pape: Um, you weigh one 40, around one 40, one 43 right now, and I just did the math for somebody else today for a lean gain at 0.2% and that was like a pound a month.
• 41:31
  Philip Pape: So double that is 0.4%.
• 41:32
  Philip Pape: That's two pounds a month.
• 41:33
  Philip Pape: That's pretty good Cause then over a six month period you would gain like 12 pounds, which is what you're trying to do.
• 41:38
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, perfect.
• 41:40
  Cynthia: That's what you're doing.
• 41:40
  Cynthia: Yes, yeah.
• 41:42
  Philip Pape: Okay, we were just confirming.
• 41:43
  Cynthia: All right, good yeah, is that funny how we get.
• 41:46
  Philip Pape: I do this math all day.
• 41:48
  Philip Pape: It's like plate math in the gym, you just know it's.
• 41:50
  Philip Pape: You know one 35, one 85 to 25, right, yeah, okay.
• 41:56
  Philip Pape: So we talked training, um, we talked body composition and and fear of gaining recovery.
• 42:02
  Philip Pape: Pretty good, now anything, any symptoms from perimenopause or anything like that affecting you no, not really recovery has been really good.
• 42:10
  Cynthia: um, no issues there.
• 42:12
  Cynthia: There are times that I am sore but not too bad, Like within a day or so it's pretty good From your lifting.
• 42:20
  Philip Pape: Yeah from lifting In specific muscle groups or just in general.
• 42:23
  Philip Pape: It could be anywhere.
• 42:24
  Cynthia: Like mostly the triceps.
• 42:26
  Cynthia: The triceps get sore a lot easier.
• 42:28
  Philip Pape: They cramp up a little bit, or what.
• 42:29
  Cynthia: Yeah, they do.
• 42:30
  Cynthia: Where you're like trying to lift something and it's like ah yeah, that happens a lot to my, my, my calves, my calf muscles, oh yeah.
• 42:38
  Cynthia: And that's one thing my husband noticed this week.
• 42:41
  Cynthia: He's like, oh, you're building calf muscles, I see them now.
• 42:44
  Cynthia: I'm like, good, and you're doing like calf raises, yeah.
• 42:48
  Philip Pape: Standing seated.
• 42:49
  Cynthia: Standing.
• 42:50
  Cynthia: Is it with your?
• 42:51
  Philip Pape: safety bar, or how do you do those With safety bar?
• 42:57
  Philip Pape: Or how do you do those with, uh, just uh, with dumbbells.
• 42:59
  Philip Pape: Okay, with dumbbells, because the calves, if it's working for you, great and and again you're you're not that heavy body weight.
• 43:01
  Philip Pape: So, like a heavier person, like and I'm not that heavy, but like bigger guys, usually have to load up the calves a lot to get them to respond, which would, since you have a squat, safety, safety, squat bar, you could get in front of your power rack, get a calf block, you a block, a little low block of some kind, like uh no, yeah, actually I do, yeah, yes.
• 43:21
  Philip Pape: Or even a box.
• 43:21
  Philip Pape: Even a box, as long as you're safe about it and you basically just you put one arm on the rack and just get up on the blocks and cause, the safety bar has a yoke, you don't really have to hold it, you know, it kind of just sits there and then you could really load it up, like I could probably calf raise, you know three something or four something.
• 43:38
  Philip Pape: You could probably get up to the two hundreds pretty quickly, cause they're, you know, the calves are pretty strong when you're just it's like this little, almost like an isometric, and then, um, really getting the squeeze and then coming down very deep, uh, with the height of your heel, so you have enough height, um, to bring the heel down.
• 43:56
  Philip Pape: You know what I'm saying yeah, yeah.
• 43:58
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you know is is super effective.
• 44:00
  Philip Pape: Also, donkey, calf raises are great.
• 44:03
  Philip Pape: That was Arnold made those famous and you could um rig up this whole thing with like spotter arms and stuff.
• 44:09
  Philip Pape: That's a lot more complicated to do that.
• 44:11
  Philip Pape: Anyway, where I was going with that is um calves can definitely cramp when you do the plat wedge, uh squat, it might like you might cramp up just getting in that position.
• 44:24
  Cynthia: Yeah.
• 44:25
  Philip Pape: Yeah, but you'll adapt, like you work through it and you work through the soreness and you adapt and then you won't cramp as much yeah.
• 44:31
  Cynthia: Yeah, I remember when it would happen.
• 44:33
  Cynthia: I'm like I'm taking magnesium.
• 44:35
  Cynthia: Shouldn't magnesium be helping with that?
• 44:38
  Philip Pape: Electrolytes, hydration, I mean some of these.
• 44:40
  Philip Pape: You just cramp because you just worked out of your muscles and you worked hard it's okay, it's okay, okay.
• 44:48
  Philip Pape: And then what about food in terms of?
• 44:50
  Philip Pape: I know you're good on macros, you understand all that, but timing energy in your workouts?
• 44:55
  Philip Pape: I know you talk about on macros, like you understand all that, but like timing energy in your workouts?
• 45:01
  Philip Pape: Um, I know you talk about eating dates and protein.
• 45:02
  Philip Pape: I love dates.
• 45:03
  Philip Pape: Um, yeah, dates are good.
• 45:04
  Cynthia: Dates are yummy.
• 45:05
  Cynthia: You ever had bacon wrap dates?
• 45:06
  Cynthia: No, okay, okay.
• 45:06
  Philip Pape: Next time you host a party, Okay, you just get strips of bacon and the big you know seeded dates.
• 45:12
  Philip Pape: That's probably how you buy them, like the major dates that have no seeds in them, and you just wrap like I think a whole strip of bacon is what you want, or maybe a half, maybe a half strip of bacon, just wrap it, put a toothpick in and roast it.
• 45:24
  Philip Pape: And you can Google like temperature and time, and it's so good because the bacon gets crispy, the dates get soft, warm and gooey.
• 45:32
  Cynthia: It's just so good.
• 45:33
  Cynthia: That's one thing I was telling my husband.
• 45:35
  Cynthia: I'm like these dates.
• 45:36
  Cynthia: They taste like caramel to me.
• 45:38
  Philip Pape: I love it, Good Cause it's like they're caramelized.
• 45:40
  Philip Pape: It's like they're caramelized just naturally, Like that's how they taste right.
• 45:43
  Cynthia: Yeah, and it does.
• 45:44
  Cynthia: Um, I know we've talked about this before pre-workouts and so I finally bought.
• 45:50
  Cynthia: Well, my husband bought the Legion, one Legion.
• 45:53
  Philip Pape: Pulse.
• 45:54
  Philip Pape: Did he use my link?
• 45:57
  Philip Pape: I'm just kidding.
• 45:59
  Cynthia: No, sorry, I'm just kidding.
• 46:01
  Philip Pape: I think my link gives me like points or something.
• 46:03
  Philip Pape: It doesn't even give me money, so I'm like I hardly ever tell people that.
• 46:06
  Cynthia: I completely forgot about it.
• 46:08
  Cynthia: To be honest, I'm just kidding, my husband bought it.
• 46:10
  Cynthia: Sorry, but I'm still iffy about it because I know that when you recommended bananas, I'm like I could eat bananas but I'm not much into it.
• 46:23
  Cynthia: And then someone had recommended dates.
• 46:26
  Cynthia: I'm like, oh, I love dates and I tried the pre-workout Legion Pulse recently and I I feel like I was crashing, still like I was.
• 46:38
  Cynthia: I was yawning the one with uh caffeine no, the non-stimulant okay, yeah, it's stem free and I I wasn't impressed with it.
• 46:47
  Cynthia: So I'm like, this morning I took my normal, just the coffee protein.
• 46:51
  Cynthia: I do a coffee protein, um, with electrolytes as well, chocolate electrolyte, uh, and the creatine powder and touring.
• 47:01
  Cynthia: But when I eat the dates, um and the magnesium, I feel energized.
• 47:06
  Cynthia: I'm like I think for me, uh, the food pre-workout works better for me versus the powders.
• 47:15
  Philip Pape: What are you doing?
• 47:15
  Philip Pape: Doing the powder without food or protein?
• 47:18
  Philip Pape: Yes, oh, okay, yeah, that's going to cause.
• 47:21
  Philip Pape: Yeah, even with.
• 47:23
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I don't see.
• 47:24
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you definitely want to, because you were basically fasted then at that point.
• 47:28
  Philip Pape: Okay, yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying that the pre-workout would work well for you, even when you did it with food.
• 47:35
  Philip Pape: The way I do it personally is I have my banana and then I have whey protein and then I have the pre-workout and then, I go work out like 10 minutes later, um, the banana and the protein, like half an hour 45 minutes before, and then the pre-workout like 15 minutes before, um.
• 47:50
  Philip Pape: But some people don't respond or some people have side effects because there's betaine, there's beta alanine, there's L-citrulline and there's one other thing, um plus the one that has caffeine.
• 48:00
  Philip Pape: That's I like that one cause.
• 48:02
  Philip Pape: That's I'm not drinking coffee that early, I drink coffee later.
• 48:04
  Philip Pape: If you did it with the food first, I'd be interested to know if there's a difference.
• 48:09
  Cynthia: Yeah, I'll try that tomorrow, cause I was planning on doing that tomorrow.
• 48:12
  Cynthia: I'm like I'm going to try it with my food, basically, and see how that works.
• 48:18
  Philip Pape: I mean pre -workout, it's just a tiny boost potentially from the effects of the compounds that are in there.
• 48:23
  Philip Pape: I mean they have been studied in the evidence to like help with with your oxygen, nitrogen oxygen and also, um, just giving you some a boost in performance.
• 48:32
  Philip Pape: Use some a boost in performance, uh, when you're in the gym so that you get like an extra rep.
• 48:36
  Philip Pape: You know it's not like it's like creatine, it's not like a huge game changer, um, so it's really take it or leave it.
• 48:44
  Philip Pape: Cynthia, honestly, you know, as long as you're progressing, you're good, um, all right.
• 48:47
  Philip Pape: So let's see you're.
• 48:49
  Philip Pape: You're headed toward, like the one 50 pound mark, which I know sounded psychologically like Whoa, um, it's funny you say that Cause just today in physique university I posted a lean gain plan for someone who's weighs 144, but it's her first lean gain, so she's afraid of gaining too much.
• 49:05
  Philip Pape: So I said let's go up to 149.
• 49:07
  Philip Pape: I did that on purpose because of the psychology.
• 49:10
  Philip Pape: I didn't want to say one 50, you know what I mean.
• 49:12
  Philip Pape: What, what are, um, what are like the most meaningful things that you're tracking now, just so the audience understands.
• 49:23
  Philip Pape: Like how do you know you're making progress?
• 49:33
  Cynthia: And tracking my macros, calories, but the measurements really does encourage, because it helps me see how much lean mass I have and how much fat mass.
• 49:44
  Cynthia: And that's another thing that I had learned from you that there was a difference with the type, because when it said lean mass I always thought it was muscle.
• 49:54
  Cynthia: Right, right, a lot of people think that I disregarded the bones, the organs, liquid.
• 50:00
  Cynthia: I'm like, yes, I gained five pounds of muscle and then the next week, wait what happened to my muscle.
• 50:07
  Cynthia: But yeah, just tracking, that was very informational, and just doing the same, I'm one of those that, I'm just a creature of habit, unfortunately.
• 50:20
  Philip Pape: That gets you the result.
• 50:21
  Philip Pape: That does it, like you said it earlier, taking the baby steps, and you also said, like, just doing something, like that was a good statement, because consistency is just doing something.
• 50:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, like, keep doing it, you're going to get there right.
• 50:34
  Cynthia: Yes, so it's just being consistent with my meals and just showing up and even if you don't feel like it, and, of course, listen to your body, because there's times like I've talked to you about it One time I was not feeling good and I took a break.
• 50:49
  Cynthia: I'm like my body saying rest.
• 50:50
  Cynthia: So I'm going to rest and I'll make up the workout week somehow.
• 50:53
  Cynthia: I'll figure it out.
• 50:54
  Cynthia: But I'm going to rest and I'll make up the workout week somehow.
• 50:56
  Cynthia: I'll figure it out, but I'm going to do it.
• 50:57
  Philip Pape: Just like the kids need the summer off and they come back mentally stronger sometimes, you need the rest.
• 51:03
  Philip Pape: It's going back to the lean mass thing.
• 51:05
  Philip Pape: I think that's an interesting one, right?
• 51:07
  Philip Pape: Because I don't want to leave that in the listener's mind, like, what are they talking about?
• 51:12
  Philip Pape: And also you, I want to make sure we clarify Um, yeah, it is everything except fat, right, so it's your muscle, your bone, your organs, your water.
• 51:23
  Philip Pape: At the same time, when you look at the change in your lean mass, your, your organs aren't going to change.
• 51:27
  Philip Pape: They might change a tiny bit, but they're not going to change.
• 51:30
  Philip Pape: Your bone's not going to change in terms of, like, the mass.
• 51:32
  Philip Pape: Um, so what's left?
• 51:34
  Philip Pape: Well, what's left is muscle and water and fluid, glycogen, all that.
• 51:37
  Philip Pape: And then you can say, okay, well then, at least we ruled out the bones and the organs for the change.
• 51:42
  Philip Pape: And so people then are like, well, how much of it is fluid?
• 51:47
  Philip Pape: Because you could get overly exuberant.
• 51:49
  Philip Pape: Like you said, I gained five pounds, so therefore, it's all muscle, and it only might be three pounds of muscle and two pounds of fluid.
• 51:56
  Philip Pape: And what we usually see happen right, as you're done with the bulk, you start to cut and all of a sudden you have fast weight loss at the beginning.
• 52:02
  Philip Pape: Cause that's the fluid coming right back off.
• 52:05
  Philip Pape: And when you just start doing the numbers and measure your body fat percentage trend and you use that times your weight, it gives you your you know fat versus lean mass.
• 52:17
  Philip Pape: You'll find that your lean mass all of a sudden drops fast, right.
• 52:19
  Philip Pape: And so when you gained five pounds, when you go back into your cut it might drop two pounds and what's left kind of gives you an indication of how much muscle you gained.
• 52:26
  Cynthia: Gotcha Okay, that's kind of where I'm going with all that.
• 52:30
  Philip Pape: All right, and it almost doesn't matter Like do you feel good, are you strong?
• 52:33
  Philip Pape: Do you look good?
• 52:33
  Philip Pape: Do you like yourself in the mirror?
• 52:34
  Philip Pape: Like, at the end of the day, that's what we're going for right, not all the numbers, even though they're fun.
• 52:38
  Philip Pape: Um, okay, all right, so is there?
• 52:41
  Philip Pape: Is there any other thing that you need help with?
• 52:44
  Philip Pape: We'll start there.
• 52:45
  Philip Pape: That's it.
• 52:46
  Philip Pape: That's my question.
• 52:50
  Cynthia: Um, well, I need a million dollars, and I'm kidding.
• 52:52
  Cynthia: Well, you do that by getting strong and fit and then going after your dreams.
• 53:06
  Cynthia: Yes, no, it's just the patience part of it and just building the muscle and just being consistent.
• 53:08
  Cynthia: One of the things that I do feel encouraged by you is the fact that I can still gain muscle and lose fat even during perimenopause, and that's one thing that I really enjoyed learning from you, because you do hear outside sources saying it's not possible, and to actually hear someone say no, it is possible For me, it's like a breath of fresh air, you know, or however you say, it.
• 53:36
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, that's perfect, beautifully said, and I hope people listening, women listening or men supporting women all take to heart what you just said.
• 53:42
  Philip Pape: It's possible.
• 53:43
  Philip Pape: We see it, you did it, you're doing it.
• 53:45
  Philip Pape: Many, many other people are doing it and we get that excuse off your plate or that doubt off your plate.
• 53:50
  Philip Pape: Then you could go after it.
• 53:51
  Philip Pape: So you could go after it.
• 53:53
  Philip Pape: So that's great advice to leave it with everyone listening.
• 53:57
  Philip Pape: And if you're listening and you're inspired by Cynthia's story, I'm sure she could connect to you, maybe in our Facebook group.
• 54:04
  Philip Pape: Maybe it would be a good place to check Cynthia out, because I don't want to share all her personal information.
• 54:08
  Philip Pape: But if you guys want to basically follow the same approach, we've got all that in Physique University.
• 54:13
  Philip Pape: This is the only pitch I'm going to give you today.
• 54:15
  Philip Pape: That is where we have the courses that Cynthia mentioned and the step-by-step system, the tracking, the strategies, and she mentioned a few times like she reached out, and that's what you do in there.
• 54:26
  Philip Pape: You just post or you say, hey, philip, I got an issue, what do I do?
• 54:29
  Philip Pape: And I'm going to chime in within like, same day, probably I'm going to come in and say here, same day, probably I'm going to come in and say here's the plan, I'll send you a video, I'll do something and then everybody else in the community learns from that.
• 54:37
  Philip Pape: So if, like, if, you jump in and you're brand new and you want to know about training, you could search training and you could see all the discussion about training.
• 54:44
  Philip Pape: Um, and so you want to go to what's on weightscom slash physique to learn more about that or click the link in the show notes.
• 54:50
  Philip Pape: But, cynthia, thank you so much for doing this, for joining my sales pitch today, for doing this coaching session together.
• 54:56
  Philip Pape: We actually did this because you won our first challenge.
• 55:00
  Philip Pape: I forgot to mention that it was a walking step challenge and Cynthia was, like, super committed to increasing her step count and being engaged and the community voted her the winner and we said let's do a coaching session for everyone to kind of celebrate this.
• 55:14
  Philip Pape: So thank you very much for doing this.
• 55:17
  Cynthia: Yeah, thank you.
• 55:18
  Cynthia: Thank you for having me and thank you for everyone who voted for me as well.
• 55:21
  Cynthia: It was awesome.
• 55:23
  Philip Pape: And they're all going to hear this.
• 55:24
  Philip Pape: I know they are.
• 55:24
  Philip Pape: So all right listener.
• 55:25
  Philip Pape: Thanks for tuning in to Wits and Weights and hearing Cynthia's story.
• 55:28
  Philip Pape: I hope everybody was inspired and takes heart in the ability to do whatever you want to do for your muscle, for your body, even in perimenopause, no matter if you're a man or woman of any age.
• 55:46
  Philip Pape: Go after it.