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Meditation · Life and How to Live It with Dr Rocco

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Drive Food How to Live.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Do you sometimes feel like life is passing you by?
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SPEAKER_00: How would you like to get more out of life?
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SPEAKER_00: We explore all things life on this podcast.
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SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Life and How to Live It Podcast with Dr.
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SPEAKER_00: Rocco.
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SPEAKER_02: Dream Creative Connecticut.
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SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of the Life and How to Live It podcast with me, Dr.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Rocco.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: In today's episode, we will be discussing meditation.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're like me, you know you should be meditating.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, we keep hearing about all the benefits of meditation: sense of well-being, you know, calmness, physical benefits, spiritual benefits.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: But if you're like me, you also have a lot of questions about meditation.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Aren't there a lot of different kinds of meditation?
0:59
SPEAKER_00: How would I know what's the right kind for me?
1:02
SPEAKER_00: How do I even get started?
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Or this is one that I hear a lot.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: How can I meditate if I can't even calm my mind for one minute?
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, we are fortunate to have a wonderful guest here to help us try to answer those questions.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: A friend and a guest who is here today, Mark Power.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Mark has practiced meditation since the late 1970s.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: He began his meditation journey while searching for answers to life's big questions, as Garrison Keeler would say.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: He learned meditation as an aspect of Buddhist training, which he has continued until the present day.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: In 2005, he was appointed a mitra or a teacher in the Nalanda Bodhi Buddhist organization, where his teaching focus has been exploring the intersection of contemplative practice and daily life.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Mark's professional career was as a chaplain in palliative care.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: He is now a life coach.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: He also served as adjunct faculty at the Indiana University Kelly School of Business, guiding MBA students in mindful presence.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Mark's other creative pursuit is wooden spoon carving.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: He and his wife live in the Hudson Valley town of Red Hook, New York.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Mark, welcome to the show.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Dr.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Rocco.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, Mark, as I was just saying a moment ago, you have been meditating since the late 1970s.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Tell us more about how you got into meditation.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, in the late 70s, I was in my late teens, and um it was a pretty tumultuous time emotionally for me.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: And and as I was exploring different avenues of meaning making, trying to uh figure myself out, I came across uh some books on Buddhist meditation, and I found them compelling.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I sought out the uh the authors of those books and the communities that that they were part of, and I began to experiment in that way.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: So that is where that is where it began.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: And and in terms of how that really brought solace or brought a greater sense of calm and leading to to a greater sense of meaning, that took time.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: But what it did give me, what meditation, even in those early days, did give me was a way to feel like I had a handle on uh otherwise very unruly emotions.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: So you were you started this meditation journey and you started seeing some benefits, even though the benefits I'm sure unfolded over the years.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: But even in those early days, you were seeing benefits from it.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely, definitely.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think in particular, when we're when we're first uh learning to meditate, there's a uh we vacillate between feeling, oh my gosh, this is impossible, as you as you said in your in your intro.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, how can we how can we hope to meditate if we can't really still our minds for for even a moment?
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh the the irony about meditation is that it's not so much about forcing your mind to become still, but allowing that stillness to emerge by by being a little more accommodating toward your thoughts and emotions.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is that when you when you meditate, generally speaking, uh at least the forms that I'm familiar with, you take a posture, usually a seated posture, and you have an object of meditation or something that you're you're putting a light focus on.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And often that focus, uh, that object is the breath.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: So something that's with you all the time, and something that also has its own uh calming rhythm when we're when we're paying close attention to the breath.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: So even in those early uh experiences of meditation, uh certainly I felt frustration about not being able to change my mind more uh immediately.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: But I also found that when I was able to relax with whatever was happening in my mind and bring that soft, relaxed focus to my breath, then the calm would emerge.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't make it happen, but I could allow it to happen.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting point.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: So you're you're not making it happen, you're letting it happen, you're allowing it to happen.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And and the way you're describing it, it you're not really uh trying to get rid of these thoughts that are racing through your head.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
6:41
SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: If you've ever tried to get rid of uh bothersome thoughts, you know how hard that is, or or virtually impossible, because what we end up doing is is putting such focus on those thoughts that it just makes them seem stronger.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: And so the by shifting attention, and that's primarily what I'm talking about here, shifting attention away from being so um caught up in our thoughts, shifting to the sensation of breathing, the breath coming in through the nostrils, flowing out through the nostrils, and then the physical sensations that are that are also attendant to that.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a place for your attention.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: It isn't it isn't just being uh cast about by by random thoughts and emotions.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's say more about that because I think this is a place where people struggle.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: So I say I'm sitting and trying to meditate and I'm thinking about my breath.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm breathing in, I'm breathing out, and then I start thinking about something from work, something that is on my mind, and it keeps intruding there.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: I I think I understand you're saying just keep thinking about the breathing and and let that thought be there.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Don't try to fight it, but focus not on it, but on the breathing.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say yes, and um I I wouldn't describe the the form of attention on the breath as thinking about the breath.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: That would invite you to a whole progression of thoughts about is this a good breath?
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Am I breathing right?
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Am I, you know, is this what he meant by focusing on the breath?
8:36
SPEAKER_01: But it's really just finding the sensation of your breath by placing attention on that in-breath, out-breath alternation.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: It takes, it takes a little time.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Initially, when we first sit down, especially if we're unfamiliar with meditation, it can feel all of a sudden like we've gone from uh busy, just to use a kind of illustration, like being in a busy train station and then you're in a quiet room.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: And still there's all of that, the inputs from that busy train station that need an opportunity to quiet.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: But initially it can feel quite jarring that we sit, we're still, and we start to place attention on the breath, but we do find that our minds are active.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: There are feelings arising.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: And so it's by noticing those things, not judging them.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: That's the key.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And not judging that this is a bad thought, that this means I'm doing it wrong, I'm a bad meditator.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm thinking.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Ah, I'm thinking.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And then I go back to placing my attention gently on the sensation of breathing.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And that can be for for uh, especially for beginning meditators, it can feel like, well, that's all I'm doing.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm just bringing my attention back to the breathing.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm being carried away every moment.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: And that that can be what it's like.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: But you find that when you when you allow yourself that kind of option to move, I'm gonna move away from this thought right now, and I'm gonna move toward putting my attention on the breath.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: What we're doing essentially in that moment is becoming present.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Our thoughts are not present.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Our thoughts are they're reflecting on the past, they're worried about the future, they're fantasizing about any number of things.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: So our thoughts are so often just they're they're phantoms, they're not real.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: They feel real, but they're not real.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And so when when we can actually bring our attention to, ah, I can feel myself sitting still.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can feel the flow of my breath in and out through my body, then we're starting to actually pay attention to what's present.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And in that present moment, there's a lot more opportunity for positive choice, you could say, versus if I'm just being compelled by thoughts and emotions.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: So that's a that's one way of thinking about meditation, becoming present to what is really what is more real, becoming present to what is more real than our thoughts.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: I like that a lot because um it is true.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Our thoughts are really they're they're almost never about the present, you know.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like even when you're having an incredible present moment, you're thinking about something else.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: The past, what are we doing later?
11:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, how am I getting home?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: What's for dinner?
11:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's almost never about the present.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: And I guess that is one of the gifts or the benefits of meditation.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Is that is that correct?
11:50
SPEAKER_00: I would say so.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm you can you can just imagine any any relationship that you're in that is of note, that that is of in some way important to you.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: If you've ever been uh in a conversation and you you know that that person across from you isn't hearing a thing that you're saying, it can it can be very uh undermining to the sense of of closeness.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And conversely, if you've been in the position of knowing that the person across from you is listening to you fully, is really present to you, that in itself can be a transformative experience.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: They don't have to have the answers, they don't have to fix you, or whatever the case may be, placing full attention on your person and and what you have to say.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: That's that is a uh an extraordinary gift.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's quite rare, actually, in our in our day-to-day lives.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's something that I try to practice myself, you know.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's one of my morning affirmations that I'd say to myself is that I am fully present and engaged in each and every moment, you know, and and I I've been saying that to myself for a number of years, and I think it has helped me to to keep that awareness front of mind.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it's a challenge.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: It's a challenge for all of us, absolutely.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: So I I have a question because, you know, I I know that there is not there is not just meditation, there are different kinds of meditation.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Can can you say a little bit about different types of meditation?
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Um I will say that that all forms of meditation that I am familiar with are in some way managing attention.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: They all have as as their their kind of heart at the heart of any of these meditations is the ability to manage our attention, to place our attention uh with intention.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Sorry for the uh the sound alikes.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: So there they're a popular form of meditation uh since the the late 60s and and 1970s is transcendental meditation.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And in transcendental meditation, uh one places attention on a mantra, uh a short uh phrase, which is often in the Sanskrit language.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a classical Indian uh language, which would have been the the language of the Vedas and uh the early Buddhist teachings.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: So there's a there is a long, long history to uh this kind of meditation.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: And um this isn't this isn't a a transcendental meditation uh mantra, but to give you an example, omanipadme home, right?
14:48
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make any sense in English.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Omanipadme home in this case is uh is a mantra of compassion.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: So in in the the uh transcendental meditation style of working with with an object, we would simply repeat this to ourselves quiet uh silently for the period of about 20 minutes.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: And by using this mantra, we've done the same thing as what we might what I was describing before as placing attention on the breath.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Thoughts might creep in, but we go back to whatever the object is.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Feelings might creep in, but we go back to whatever that object is.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Omane pad mehom.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: We say we're saying silently to ourselves.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: At the end of that period, generally you'll find that that even if you didn't feel that there was a calmness uh building, you will f you will feel that there is uh a change, a positive change, because of that intentional use of attention for a period of time.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: If you were to do it for a minute, you'd have less benefit.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: You do it for five five minutes, a little more benefit.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Usually they say 20 minutes.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh the mindfulness meditations are very simple meditations in that they they rely on generally the breath or other sense perceptions.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: The breath and physical sensation is easiest for us to connect with in a in a stable way, because usually we're seated and we're still, and we can we can come back to that feeling of stillness if we find ourselves wandering.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's harder if we're using a sound as the object of meditation because sounds are changing all the time.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Or in some cases, a visual object is used as as a an object for uh placing our attention on.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And as long as that visual object is still, it could be a pebble or it could be uh a statue of of a figure that we find um that we have some faith in.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh and in the same way, our meditation is placing attention and then as we get carried away, bringing that attention back in a simple, gentle, non-judgmental way.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really at the crux of all of these forms of meditation is that we're we're learning to be observers, not judges.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that takes a long time because that judgment is is hardwired.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Right from the very beginning, when we when we begin to meditate, oh I can't meditate.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: I can't meditate.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: I can't stop my mind, I can't stop my thoughts.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And even if someone says to us, well, that's not the point.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to worry about that.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: Use this object as a as a way of coming back to the present moment.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, I can't do that.
17:49
unknown: Yeah.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: We're looking, we're looking for something a little bit, we set this, we set the bar too high.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: So we want that calm now.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: We want that sense of being present now.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: And it does take a little patience.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: I I find that really interesting what you were just saying, that really ultimately all these different kinds of meditation or schools of meditation have that common denominator of what of focus and attention, something you focus on.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Some will be more elaborate.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, if you've taken if you've taken yoga classes or have been in uh uh context where in addition to the the physical postures, there is um I forget the the the name Dar not darshan, but there's uh the singing and the and the the chanting of of these uh sacred songs from the Hindu traditions.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: There's an in addition to placing one's attention, you're also rousing your your sense of faith and devotion.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And so that is another form of meditation, not quite as simple as as as what I described before, it elaborates, it brings in uh a bigger world.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And for some, it's the sound that will actually uh help to maintain that sense of presence, that sense of connecting to the present moment through that sound, through the the recitation of these these prayers and songs.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned you've mentioned breathing a number of times, right?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I know that there are different kinds of breathing practices.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: When you're talking about breathing or uh paying attention to your breath in the context of meditation, is there a particular sort of breathing pattern that you're talking about?
19:46
SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's ordinary breathing.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's it you don't want to be managing your breathing, you want to manage your attention.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: So you you allow your body to breathe as it needs to breathe, and you place your attention on the sensations of that.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And and then it sounds like that most meditation, or at least the way you've described it so far, is is in a kind of a static position.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: But I've also heard of walking meditation.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Tell me something about that.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: There are many meditations that are connected to movement.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Walking meditation is uh a classic Buddhist uh form of uh meditation in action.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and uh if if you have interest, anyone, any uh any of your listeners have interest, one of the most beautiful um treatments of of walking meditation in uh throughout his writings is Tiknat Han.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh Tiknat Han was a Vietnamese Zen master who died uh probably within the last 10 years, but was very influential in uh in bringing especially the calming meditations to to the West.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: And walking meditation was among his most, among the most favorite that that that uh students of his would practice.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And walking meditation in this case uses the sensation of the movement of the legs and and feet, the contact between the feet and the ground.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: These are where we we rest our attention and focus.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: And I say rest because if you try to hold your attention as you are, well, in any meditation, if you try to hold your attention, it will it will double back on you.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh you won't be able to hold your attention or you'll exhaust yourself by trying.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And so with walking meditation, you're walking at a reasonably slow pace, at least you know, for you using this in a in a conventional setting where you don't want to be seen as a Walking down the street like a zombie, you're walking at a reasonably slow pace, and you're you're really allowing your attention to move down from usually where it's located is in our heads, because we are so in our heads most of the time.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: So there's there is the feeling of allowing our attention to drift down into the lower part of our body, especially the legs, and being attentive to the sensation of when I pick up my foot, my leg swings, and when I place my foot down, and the other leg, the other foot is raising, the leg is swinging.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: And there's that appreciation of the rhythm and also of the sensation, the touch between our feet and the ground beneath us.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: And as we find ourselves wandering off from that and thinking about, oh, I've got to pick up the pace, I've got to, I've got things to do.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna come back to that sensation, just feeling the right foot, the left foot, the swing of the legs.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And you'd be surprised when when you do you do that, there is a kind of focus that we have on the on the our legs and feet, but then we also begin to become more sensitive to the other sense perceptions.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: We start to hear more, we start to see more, because our attention is not being jumbled by all of the thoughts and and emotions in our our heads and hearts.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: So it's another way of managing attention, but in this case, in the context of movement.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very interesting.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: Um it's it seems like there are many different ways of getting to that same place, which is being fully present.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: So what would you say are the benefits of meditation?
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, depends on context, but uh as a chaplain, I would work with people and offer them meditations to lessen stress.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: To uh, in some cases, I would accompany uh prayer or I would join prayer in meditation in the kind of in a kind of guided imagery, which can be very powerful.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: It's something I didn't speak of before, but another form of meditation is guided imagery, where especially if if someone is guiding you, and together you have you have discerned what is important to uh focus on here, then the person guiding that meditation can really be attentive to that the guiding is going in a direction you have both identified as as really beneficial.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Being able to relax into the creation of an image is can be very powerful as a way of building confidence, can be it can be a wonderful way of of healing in grief.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: It is a way of seeing ourselves in in ways that that nourish us versus sometimes our thoughts and feelings about ourselves are uh actually counterproductive.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: We focus on our limits, and with with guided imagery, you can really focus on potential strengths.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it can be lowering of stress, it can be increase increasing our our sense of confidence and acceptance.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: If we're if we're in a medical environment and we maybe have procedures that we're facing and have some anxiety about, that can be very beneficial to allaying some of that anxiety.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: From the spiritual point of view, again, it will it will kind of depend on the tradition that that a person practices within all along the spectrum.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I would say that it that meditation is a way of really deepening into an experiential understanding of one's faith versus simply a conceptual understanding, which is all about thoughts.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: I have a I have a question because now you're you're talking a little bit about spirituality and religion, and you mentioned prayer before.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So, how are prayer and meditation similar or different from each other?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think uh they're similar in that there is a focus of attention.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: We pray to or we pray for, and so there is some specific intention there.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's how they're similar.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: With meditation, specifically talking about meditation and prayer as a in contrast with meditation, you're letting go.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: You're letting go of any of any uh of the thoughts, the hopes and fears that might arise in the context of your meditation.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: You're really learning to let go.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Let your thoughts move move through, just let them move through.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Come back to that focus of the breath in this case.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Come back to that focus of the breath.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Your thoughts will meet you when you finish your session, no doubt.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: They will still be there.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So for this limited period of time, you're committing to coming back to the present moment.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And with prayer, of course, it's I think uh when you join the two, then it can it can uh, in my experience, can uh bring about a more embodied feeling of prayer, that you're really in it not only in your in your mind and your thoughts, but that you are bringing your heart and your and your present moment awareness to that that fully into that prayer.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: All right.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned some of the benefits of meditation as being uh stress relief and uh kind of like a deepening of spirituality.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Any other benefits that you would like to mention?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that one of the the unintended benefits of of meditation, that if we if we do it consistently over time, if we develop a meditation practice, we become much kinder to ourselves.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is probably the most important benefit.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I think that is a very under-recognized um need that we have.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are out there just um with a lot of negative self-talk, a lot of negative opinions about themselves, and I should have done this, I I could have been better, here's where I went wrong.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that you know, giving yourself a little grace is it would be a wonderful thing, and maybe we get that from consistent meditation.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a possibility.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: So is it wrong to even ask the question like what are the benefits of meditation?
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like what's my return on investment?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we have to go into it that way because you know, otherwise, why bother?
29:14
SPEAKER_01: If if there's no if I don't have any motivation for bettering myself or having uh greater sense of ease uh and uh less anxiety in my life, then why would I meditate?
29:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, did what would be the what would be the impetus for for that?
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh for most of us, you know, we really need to have some sense that I'm gonna get something out of this.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: And then if you if you choose to continue the practice, it may it you may find a uh a level at which this is all I need.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's 10 to 15 minutes four times a week.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: That's all I need.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then for other people it's gonna be, you know, I'm noticing that that this is taking me in a direction that I want to explore more deeply.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: And and so uh other opportunities are are certainly available out there for for for doing that.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: So I think one has to have some hope that that meditation will benefit us.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, now what about somebody who's listening to this and says, you know, I like the idea, but how do I get started?
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the way that someone can approach, you know, uh a new practice of meditation?
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, um the problem and the promise is that there are a million and one uh options out there uh on the internet.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that there are a couple of of apps or um I guess they are apps.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: One is called Headspace and one is called Calm.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh and there are others.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but but I believe that they have some free options and they're well produced.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh you'll quickly get a sense of of whether what they're offering is is going to be of of lasting interest to you.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Beyond that, then I would say that that um doing some research about you know meditation meditation groups near me, and and looking at what they what they offer, uh, how they describe themselves, who they who they are connected to, or what their their methodology is, so to speak, and and where it comes from.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's important to do a little bit of research so that when you do start to to practice and you or if you connect with a community, uh you're not completely blindsided by either the eccentricities of the group or wait a minute, I didn't read about that on the website.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: But I would say simple and look for introductory opportunities uh where there's nothing required of you.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: If people are requiring too much of you, then they they may be coming at this from the wrong angle and not necessarily to your greatest benefit.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: And if you do a little research like that, you'll you'll begin to um connect with perhaps local resources, people who have the same questions as you do.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: And and that's how I find that that uh most people connect with meditation.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: They start to get curious and they just follow that curiosity.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned finding local groups.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that there's a benefit to um meditating with a group of people?
33:06
SPEAKER_00: I do.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: But again, I would say that with a a caveat, and that that is that I would want to know a little bit about what I'm walking into before walking in.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if I am a quiet, introverted person who's really looking for a silent meditation uh and a little bit of guidance, I may be quickly overwhelmed by walking into a yoga ashram where the devotional prayers are a large part of the meditation practice, where devotion is a big part of that particular path.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: So I would say again, it's important to have a sense of what you what you want and who you are, and and do a little bit of a little bit of uh looking around.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you could recommend that someone could do even before they did this research or got that app, like something like sitting quietly and and monitoring your breath, you know, like that is meditation, right?
34:06
SPEAKER_00: At its simplest level.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I would say do these little experiments.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: One could be go into a room, sit down, and immediately notice the experience of being still.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: Notice your sense perceptions, notice what's different in this moment than when I walked into the room.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Not looking for answers necessarily, not doing an inventory.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of an open-ended question.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: Huh?
34:36
SPEAKER_01: What's this like?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting, I'm being still.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And maybe you do that for ten seconds.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Another time, sit down somewhere, maybe outside where you where you're in in some form of nature, could be a park, could doesn't have to be nature, it can be uh can be at a cafe table on the sidewalk.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: And be still.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Notice your breath three times, three alternations in and out.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Just place attention on on the sensation of of the breath in and out three times.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Then let it go.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: And little little experiments like that.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Then when you're walking across the street, notice the sensation of touching the ground with your foot.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Don't walk too fast.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Just notice that sensation.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: See if you can if you can let your attention rest on that movement for the duration of the crossing of the street.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: That's long enough.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And these kinds of things where where you can use your sense perceptions when you look up into the sky, take a big breath and breathe out, and just let all let everything go.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Let everything go.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Of course it comes right back.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: That's that's no problem.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: You're just learning to relate with attention and and kind of expanding that the field of attention as we get so locked into our heads, thoughts, and emotions.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, those are those are some great little experiments that don't take a lot of time, they don't cost anything.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to join a group, but it gives you a sense of what it is like to meditate.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: It actually is meditating, but just for a very short period of time.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, so Mark, is there anything else that you want to make sure that the listeners get before we wrap up?
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh just to emphasize that that meditation is a form of kindness.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not a sport.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not uh being athletic about meditation probably will have uh painful effects if you try to sit too long, or in in, you know, in the classic sense, we sit in cross-legged postures, and and many bodies are not suited to that, and and you can hurt yourself.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a it's a practice of kindness and it's a practice of noticing.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: And those things uh in and of themselves will not only benefit you, but anybody that that is around you, anybody you're in relationship to, and of course, the world uh around us all.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Mark.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: That this has been a great conversation.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot, and um I think I'm gonna take the leap, take the plunge, and and try a little bit of meditation on of my own.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: So before we close out this segment of the episode, I want to ask you a question that I ask all my guests.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: If you had the ability to put a message on a billboard and you knew that billboard was going to be seen by thousands of people every day, what would your message be?
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was thinking about this, and immediately what came to mind was kindness is the cure.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Kindness is the cure.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: All right.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Is there more you want to say about it?
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it kind of says it on its own.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I think it it's pretty clear, and we can probably uh take it to different levels, you know, in our own in our own thinking.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: But kindness is the cure.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Kindness is the cure, and we definitely need more kindness in the world.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, Mark Power, thank you so much for being a guest on the program.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: I I've I've learned a lot, I've enjoyed our conversation.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Rocco.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: It's been really uh a pleasure and a privilege.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, thanks for inviting me on.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: Now it's time for Dr.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: Rocco's rex.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: Dr.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: Rocco's Rix.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Now it's time for Dr.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Rocco's Ricks.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: My recommendation this week is let the people you care about know it.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, I come from a time and a place when we didn't necessarily tell people that we cared about that we cared about them.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, if if we spent time with you, you know, that that's that's the sign, you know, that we like you, you know, we're with you, so we like you.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, in fact, if we really like you, we probably make fun of you and you know, make you the butt of a joke.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: That's a sign that we really like you.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: So I still like that kind of interaction.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: I think that it's you know, it's fun, uh, and I get it.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: But I think times have changed.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: I think people are really busy, people are really overwhelmed, and people feel lonely and isolated, and uh they feel like they're not seen in this crazy world that just goes a 100 miles an hour at all times.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: So if there's someone in your life that you care about, my recommendation this week is to tell them, just be explicit.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Just if you have a friend you really enjoy being with, say, hey, I really enjoy being with you.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: It's that simple.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Or I value our friendship.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: If you have a uh a spouse or a significant other, tell them how important they are to you in in your life.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: It may feel awkward, especially if this is not the way you normally interact with each other, but I can almost guarantee that you will both feel better that you said it.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: So that's my challenge to you this week.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Tell people how you feel.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Optimists tend to engage in healthy behaviors like exercise and avoid unhealthy ones like smoking.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: So try being an optimist.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Even if it is not your default mode, try to see the glass half full.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Try to see the bright side.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: I think you'll be happy that you did.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it for today's show.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: I hope you have enjoyed spending a little time with me today.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, so long, that's all for today's show.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to the Life and How to Live It podcast with Dr.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Rocco.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe and leave a review.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: See my show notes to find out more about the show.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: And remember, life is not a dress rehearsal.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Until next time.