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MONEY DIARIES: 26, trans and preparing for gender affirmation surgery · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
0:29
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
0:32
Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Tony
0:36
Speaker 2: Lodge and joining me for another shot back money Diary
0:39
Speaker 2: is Victoria Divine. Welcome, Party Time, Party Time.
0:43
Speaker 3: Always very excited about this money Diary.
0:45
Speaker 2: So this money Diary is one we've actually had in
0:48
Speaker 2: the works for a little while now, and after you and.
0:53
Speaker 3: Our Money Diarist, yes, I am literally every single time.
0:57
Speaker 2: Forget that it's anonymous.
0:59
Speaker 3: She sent like a prize to me this week. I
1:01
Speaker 3: actually know this person, which I'm very excited about. Yeah,
1:04
Speaker 3: it's very cool.
1:05
Speaker 2: So the two of you have been chatting over Instagram
1:07
Speaker 2: and we thought this is such a great opportunity to
1:09
Speaker 2: get them on the podcast and have a little bit
1:11
Speaker 2: of a chat. So, without any further ado, I am
1:14
Speaker 2: going to read the email.
1:16
Speaker 3: I'm ready.
1:17
Speaker 2: Hi, She's on the Money. I'm a twenty six year
1:20
Speaker 2: old living in New South Wales. I work at an
1:22
Speaker 2: ASX listed company in diversity and inclusion and I'm currently
1:26
Speaker 2: a postgraduate student studying public health. I've been at my
1:29
Speaker 2: company for three and a half years. I started in
1:32
Speaker 2: the call center when I finished my honors degree and
1:34
Speaker 2: have since worked my way up also ex fancy fancy. Historically,
1:38
Speaker 2: I'm a big spender and oftentimes experience the urge to
1:41
Speaker 2: spend cash the moment it hits my account. This has
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Speaker 2: previously seeing me in almost ten K worth of personal
1:47
Speaker 2: debt due to a deep seated desire to keep up
1:49
Speaker 2: with those around me in terms of nights out and
1:51
Speaker 2: material items. Thankfully, I'm now debt free, woo. With the
1:55
Speaker 2: exception of my help debt, I have savings in the
1:58
Speaker 2: bank and I'm working hard to ensure I can afford
2:00
Speaker 2: to move to Sydney next year, as well as a
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Speaker 2: gender affirming surgery so I can get closer to being
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Speaker 2: my authentic self. Seek amazing, Annie drist you're here and
2:09
Speaker 2: you got them on the line.
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Speaker 4: Of course, Hey how are you doing?
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Speaker 2: Oh my god, we.
2:13
Speaker 3: Are so good and so excited we get to chat
2:16
Speaker 3: with you. How about we just get straight into the
2:19
Speaker 3: questions and then we can get into the pervy stuff
2:21
Speaker 3: and the kneedy gritty a little bit later.
2:23
Speaker 4: Sounds great, Let's get started.
2:24
Speaker 3: We are so excited, all right, So what is your
2:27
Speaker 3: attitude towards money?
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Speaker 4: It's changed a lot, I think in the last eighteen
2:32
Speaker 4: months or so since the start of the pandemic, I've
2:35
Speaker 4: been pretty conscientious about knuckling down and putting some money away.
2:39
Speaker 4: Prior to that, I've stated in my money dires a
2:43
Speaker 4: little update there, I was pretty frivolous and any chance
2:47
Speaker 4: to head out, have a good mail update, the wardrobe,
2:52
Speaker 4: anything really fair. Yeah, I was pretty pretty keen to
2:57
Speaker 4: let go of the money, whereas now I'm and you know,
3:00
Speaker 4: building that little mess is pretty important. My partner works
3:04
Speaker 4: in hospitality, so at the start of COVID, it became
3:07
Speaker 4: pretty apparent that given that my job was stable and
3:11
Speaker 4: I was able to work from home, wanted to make
3:14
Speaker 4: sure we were nice and safe. Yeah.
3:16
Speaker 3: I feel like that's such a shock that so many
3:18
Speaker 3: of us went through during that, and like lots of
3:20
Speaker 3: us have partners who are in hospitality or like retail
3:23
Speaker 3: that needed to close, and that's such a space that's like, well,
3:27
Speaker 3: if the work's not there, like you can't just do
3:29
Speaker 3: it online, you can't just do it from home. And yeah,
3:32
Speaker 3: like you being in the role that you're in, very secure,
3:35
Speaker 3: very nice, very COVID safe, very COVID safe. All right,
3:41
Speaker 3: So next question is what do you do for work
3:44
Speaker 3: and how much money do you earn?
3:47
Speaker 4: So I work in human resources as a diversity and
3:50
Speaker 4: inclusion specialist, So it's a lot of mapping. It a
3:55
Speaker 4: lot of mapping out what folks from different underrepresented groups
3:59
Speaker 4: may need in terms of additional support, and that can
4:02
Speaker 4: also extend to our clients too, so looking at making
4:05
Speaker 4: sure that forms, as an example, would be inclusive with
4:09
Speaker 4: things like gender neutral titles, or making sure that people
4:13
Speaker 4: feel comfortable to talk about general affirming care as well
4:17
Speaker 4: as First Nations health type stuff. In terms of what
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Speaker 4: I earn, I'm on seventy one thousand a year.
4:24
Speaker 3: Nice.
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Speaker 2: That would be a fairly new type of role for
4:28
Speaker 2: such a big company. Like in your money diary email
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Speaker 2: you mentioned it's ASX listed, so I'm guessing it's quite
4:35
Speaker 2: a high profile thing that would be quite a new
4:38
Speaker 2: addition to their company. Surely someone that is dealing with,
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Speaker 2: you know, like inclusion and things like.
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Speaker 5: That or absolutely.
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Speaker 4: So, yeah, I'm the first person with this position at
4:49
Speaker 4: my company, and I definitely think that Prior to COVID
4:54
Speaker 4: nineteen and of course we've staw with Black Lives Matter
4:57
Speaker 4: in the US. Unfortunately, obviously we've experienced what was disparity
5:01
Speaker 4: in Australia in terms of our race relations far beyond
5:06
Speaker 4: last year. So I think, as you know, higher profile
5:10
Speaker 4: organizations looked what was happening in the States and how
5:13
Speaker 4: they were configuring some of their organizational structures to include folk,
5:18
Speaker 4: you know, working with equity and inclusion for their employees.
5:22
Speaker 4: I think we've sort of started increasingly now often on
5:26
Speaker 4: LA LinkedIn and Seek you'll see positions for this kind
5:29
Speaker 4: of work come up much more regularly. But prior to
5:32
Speaker 4: sort of twelve eighteen months ago something your organizations definitely
5:37
Speaker 4: had it. But I think I think it is pretty
5:39
Speaker 4: new in the Australian sort of recruitment market space. Yeah.
5:43
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really interesting.
5:45
Speaker 3: Off off topic, but like similar, I used to work
5:48
Speaker 3: in organizational development and org psyche and one of the
5:51
Speaker 3: other business units that would work beside us was diversity
5:54
Speaker 3: and inclusion, and like that was all well and good,
5:57
Speaker 3: but I just feel like we are leaps and bounds
6:00
Speaker 3: head of where the conversations that I remember having and
6:02
Speaker 3: this is like six seven years ago, I remember them
6:05
Speaker 3: having because it was very much like women focused and
6:08
Speaker 3: I'd always been like great, like cool, like as a
6:10
Speaker 3: female like in the workplace. They had a lot of
6:13
Speaker 3: things like a women in leadership program and stuff, And
6:16
Speaker 3: I just feel like we are actually now talking about
6:19
Speaker 3: true diversity and true inclusion, not just like the topical
6:23
Speaker 3: things that the CEO has been like, oh, yeah, we
6:25
Speaker 3: should do something about diversity. Diversity is women and men, right, Like, no,
6:30
Speaker 3: that's not just it. So I just I feel like
6:32
Speaker 3: it's so cool that we're now in this space where
6:34
Speaker 3: we're having true conversations about inclusion and what that really
6:38
Speaker 3: means and how to make people feel truly included. And
6:41
Speaker 3: in a way, it baffles me that it hasn't come
6:44
Speaker 3: up earlier than that, Like how is it to change
6:47
Speaker 3: things like forms to just make people feel comfortable? Why
6:50
Speaker 3: didn't we do that years ago?
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Speaker 4: So yeah, and I think that women be men component
6:56
Speaker 4: for a long time. And Vitory notice all too well.
7:00
Speaker 4: Like with your finance background, a lot of it does
7:02
Speaker 4: come down to things like corporate governance and what's required
7:06
Speaker 4: from investors and clients all of the organization in terms
7:09
Speaker 4: of what metrics look like, and it's not actually powered
7:13
Speaker 4: by the employees or the members or consumers you know
7:16
Speaker 4: that are directly impacted by the landscape of the organization.
7:20
Speaker 4: So it's good that there's been a little bit of
7:22
Speaker 4: a flip towards the people in terms of inclusion.
7:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like I love you, know, knowing
7:28
Speaker 3: you and knowing who you are and what you do
7:32
Speaker 3: in the role that you're in. I just feel like
7:33
Speaker 3: you're going to bring so much more value than you
7:36
Speaker 3: know looking back on it, and I'm not saying there
7:38
Speaker 3: was anything bad, but those people that were in those
7:41
Speaker 3: roles were middle aged men. But at the time it
7:44
Speaker 3: seemed really normal to me and really fine, and it
7:46
Speaker 3: was just a thing right. And now I'm like, you
7:48
Speaker 3: are a true voice that knows what people are going
7:50
Speaker 3: through and has gone through that adversity and can see
7:53
Speaker 3: it and feel it and you know, really advise on
7:56
Speaker 3: what are the best steps for that, because who would
7:59
Speaker 3: know better than someone who is going through it and
8:01
Speaker 3: knows and knows what to look for. I think that
8:04
Speaker 3: that's really cool. But back on money diary questions, what
8:09
Speaker 3: is currently your big money goal?
8:12
Speaker 4: So it's a dual purpose goal. It's moving to Sydney.
8:18
Speaker 4: So I'm two hours north at the moment, and I'd
8:22
Speaker 4: like to move down to Sydney to open up some
8:24
Speaker 4: opportunities in terms of my studies, as Tony said, looking
8:28
Speaker 4: at public health, particularly interested in things like harm reduction
8:33
Speaker 4: and working with trans and gender diverse.
8:35
Speaker 5: Communities culturally withstically.
8:37
Speaker 4: Diverse communities, first nations, people in a health sort of setting,
8:42
Speaker 4: and Sydney definitely opens up a lot more opportunities for that.
8:46
Speaker 4: And I'm also looking to have gender affirming surgery, so
8:49
Speaker 4: top surgery, and that's something that whilst there are surgeons
8:54
Speaker 4: where I live that do perform that procedure, Sydney definitely has,
9:00
Speaker 4: you know, more of a history or longevity there in
9:02
Speaker 4: terms of results that are really great. I'm a larger
9:06
Speaker 4: person and some of the surgeons down there definitely combat
9:10
Speaker 4: class size a little bit better.
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Speaker 3: I think they're really exciting, but they also sound like
9:14
Speaker 3: really expensive goals. And I'm going to ask a few
9:17
Speaker 3: pervy questions in a minute, but let's keep on track, Tony.
9:22
Speaker 3: Do you currently invest.
9:24
Speaker 5: I do so savvy?
9:26
Speaker 4: Oh gosh. Part of my company is yeah. So every
9:33
Speaker 4: year I've been with my company, I've invested in their
9:36
Speaker 4: shares as part of the employee share programs.
9:39
Speaker 3: Small. That is good, very smart.
9:41
Speaker 2: You should start something like that here for me.
9:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that sounds good. Let's talk about it later. So,
9:47
Speaker 3: next question, do you have any debts?
9:52
Speaker 4: Yes, a big help debt. I logged onto Ato when
9:55
Speaker 4: I did my tax this week and sitting at a
9:58
Speaker 4: tasty forty one thousand.
10:00
Speaker 3: Oh nice, you could buy a lot for forty one dollars. Well,
10:05
Speaker 3: they already did their education. Yeah, that's true.
10:07
Speaker 2: Yes, let's not think about our help dead as something
10:10
Speaker 2: that goes nowhere. We've learned from from.
10:13
Speaker 3: That financial advice here, like we've all right. Next question
10:22
Speaker 3: is a very important question because we've started only asking
10:26
Speaker 3: this question very recently on the podcast, and that is
10:30
Speaker 3: do you use shop back?
10:33
Speaker 4: I've downloaded the app, but I haven't good good first step?
10:37
Speaker 3: Did you at least use our code and get ten bucks?
10:40
Speaker 4: I feel like it was it was pre She's on
10:43
Speaker 4: the money shot back.
10:45
Speaker 5: It was like it was an old school.
10:48
Speaker 4: One, like can I change up the email and try
10:50
Speaker 4: again for the money?
10:52
Speaker 3: You totally couldn't get ten We're not actually promoting that
10:56
Speaker 3: right now. We've just decided to start asking it because
10:59
Speaker 3: it actually is so pervy how much money people can
11:03
Speaker 3: actually get back and asking you like what's your best purchase?
11:06
Speaker 3: Like I had a girlfriend message me the other day
11:08
Speaker 3: and she's like, yep, cool, needed a new tumble dry
11:10
Speaker 3: and washing machine and got it back and like got
11:12
Speaker 3: it in the middle of the sales and got like
11:15
Speaker 3: more than two hundred dollars back or something ridiculous, And
11:17
Speaker 3: I was like.
11:18
Speaker 2: Sorry, what I just always forget?
11:20
Speaker 3: You know, I never remember either. I'm useless. So I
11:22
Speaker 3: hope that I can learn something by asking this question.
11:25
Speaker 3: Moving forward, what is your best money habit?
11:33
Speaker 4: I think knowing I got to a point where and
11:37
Speaker 4: you went to let go. I have a partner. I've
11:40
Speaker 4: been with my partner since I was nineteen. You very cute.
11:47
Speaker 4: For the first few years, they let me go very
11:50
Speaker 4: rogue on the.
11:51
Speaker 5: Cash fun oh thanks, and.
11:55
Speaker 4: We have separate finances. But they let me go rogue personally.
11:59
Speaker 4: And you know, before I dug myself into too big
12:03
Speaker 4: of a ditch, they were definitely there.
12:05
Speaker 5: To provide support.
12:06
Speaker 4: And I guess I back myself now in knowing that
12:12
Speaker 4: you know it is okay to ask for help when
12:14
Speaker 4: it comes to money, and when they were able to
12:18
Speaker 4: provide me that support aka popping at the time, probably
12:22
Speaker 4: fifty or one hundred dollars into an account that I
12:24
Speaker 4: couldn't see just so that I could pay for things
12:27
Speaker 4: like my phone bills. And I know this is like
12:30
Speaker 4: a really roundabout way to ask that question. But since
12:33
Speaker 4: then asking from help from my partner, then being able
12:37
Speaker 4: to have conversations with colleagues and friends, and then getting
12:39
Speaker 4: into things like she's on the money through simply ask
12:43
Speaker 4: being able to ask for help, I've then being able
12:46
Speaker 4: to create these like really important foundations to be better
12:49
Speaker 4: at money. So if anyone can muster it within themselves
12:53
Speaker 4: to ask for help or seek help, I think that's
12:56
Speaker 4: a really good money skill to have because sometimes you
13:00
Speaker 4: do it alone.
13:00
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, so you're so special.
13:02
Speaker 2: Your best money habit is that you're willing to openly
13:05
Speaker 2: talk about your finances, which is amazing.
13:07
Speaker 3: That's such a good Absolutely, what's your worst money habit?
13:12
Speaker 4: The compulsion to spend money as soon as it gets
13:15
Speaker 4: my bank account. Yeah, like I know the hour, the minute,
13:19
Speaker 4: the hour of the minute that that money is dropping
13:21
Speaker 4: into the account. And thankfully now I've been able to
13:24
Speaker 4: supersped for the most part that urge by transferring it
13:28
Speaker 4: into different accounts.
13:29
Speaker 5: So maybe it jump is let's go yeh jog jumpers.
13:34
Speaker 4: Absolutely, But Yeah, it's you know, it's a bit of
13:36
Speaker 4: an addiction and compulsion for a lot of folk and
13:39
Speaker 4: people with anxiety and different mental health concerns. And I
13:44
Speaker 4: guess it's a bad habit, but it's also one that's
13:48
Speaker 4: pretty hard wired in there, so you have to try
13:51
Speaker 4: and reroute it by moving it into differ accounts that.
13:54
Speaker 5: You can't touch.
13:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard when you get that dopamine rush from
13:58
Speaker 2: being like, oh, yeah, I'm going to buy something. Yeah,
14:00
Speaker 2: and like you were just saying money darist almost use
14:04
Speaker 2: your real name, man that. Yeah, I definitely feel that
14:08
Speaker 2: when I'm really anxious, I think I just want to
14:10
Speaker 2: buy something really nice for myself. For if I'm having
14:13
Speaker 2: like a bad flare up of OCD, which I suffer from,
14:16
Speaker 2: Like I just think, oh, I just need to buy
14:18
Speaker 2: something nice make myself feel better. So I totally feel you.
14:21
Speaker 2: I think that there's lots of people that feel the
14:23
Speaker 2: same way as well.
14:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is a struggle we can actually I've
14:26
Speaker 3: got a few questions about that in that space. After
14:30
Speaker 3: so I'm going to ask the next question, which is
14:32
Speaker 3: what grade would you give yourself if I forced you
14:35
Speaker 3: to give yourself a grade?
14:38
Speaker 2: A bee nice, so straight to the point, wasn't it.
14:41
Speaker 3: That's fair?
14:42
Speaker 2: I think I think is very fair.
14:44
Speaker 3: I feel like a B plus. Yeah, I think as
14:48
Speaker 3: because you're so good at having money conversations and identifying
14:52
Speaker 3: where you want to be better. And that's half the argument, right,
14:56
Speaker 3: Like I say on the podcast all the time, we
14:58
Speaker 3: need to get our heads out of the sand and stop,
15:00
Speaker 3: you know, hiding from it. I don't feel like you
15:03
Speaker 3: do that at all. But you're very aware of the
15:05
Speaker 3: coping mechanisms that you have around spending and anxiety, and
15:08
Speaker 3: you mentioned before mental health concerns, and I think that
15:11
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's a level of introspection that not
15:13
Speaker 3: a lot of people have and that Yeah, and I
15:16
Speaker 3: like saying plus.
15:20
Speaker 4: I think the reason why it's a B plus is
15:22
Speaker 4: because the investing portion is something that, thankfully, through my company,
15:27
Speaker 4: has been made very accessible to me. I think i'd
15:30
Speaker 4: elevate that grade something with invest like investing to me
15:35
Speaker 4: is a little bit scary, like letting that money out
15:39
Speaker 4: into the Yeah.
15:40
Speaker 2: It can be.
15:42
Speaker 4: And two, prior to understanding more about services like ethical
15:46
Speaker 4: investing through you know, e f ts like Vanguard, previously,
15:51
Speaker 4: I was quite concerned about investing into you know, a
15:55
Speaker 4: fund or a service that wasn't ethical. Yeah, you know,
16:00
Speaker 4: been a vegan for likely a decade now, and I've got,
16:03
Speaker 4: you know, some pretty strong values around making sure that
16:06
Speaker 4: you know, things like coal and you know, I don't
16:09
Speaker 4: want to support something that while with my values, just to.
16:13
Speaker 6: Go that nest egg make money.
16:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's.
16:17
Speaker 4: A lot more services now that make a little bit easier.
16:20
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, absolutely, And that's where it's kind of cool
16:22
Speaker 3: that we get to educate ourselves and these things out
16:25
Speaker 3: there for us to educate ourselves with. And there is
16:28
Speaker 3: a lot more clarity nowadays on what ethical actually means.
16:31
Speaker 3: But the interesting thing about ethical investing, and we covered
16:34
Speaker 3: this in our ethical investing episode, is that ethical means
16:37
Speaker 3: something different to everybody, Yes, right, Like what you are
16:41
Speaker 3: and what your values are are very different to mine.
16:44
Speaker 2: And what you're inexposed to it.
16:46
Speaker 3: Like, even though we both adore animals and plants, and
16:49
Speaker 3: we both you know, don't eat meat, and we both
16:51
Speaker 3: are like crazy vegans and all of that, it's not
16:55
Speaker 3: a bad thing, but like we would you know, if
16:56
Speaker 3: you get into the real nitty gritty of it, I'm
16:58
Speaker 3: sure we'd have differing opinions, and it's kind of like, well,
17:00
Speaker 3: we actually need to learn that about ourselves to be
17:02
Speaker 3: really comfortable with what we're investing in. But for some
17:06
Speaker 3: people they're like, oh, I don't really mind, and you're
17:08
Speaker 3: like that's cool too because we're all small piece and
17:12
Speaker 3: I think that that's really cool. Let's have a good chat.
17:14
Speaker 3: I've got a lot of questions for you, and I
17:16
Speaker 3: feel like if I don't stop now and go to
17:19
Speaker 3: a really quick break, we're not going to stop, Tony.
17:22
Speaker 3: We never do no see soon. So we are back,
17:35
Speaker 3: and you know what, I don't even know where to start.
17:37
Speaker 3: Dog jumpers, plants, honors, degrees, like having a partner since
17:42
Speaker 3: you're nineteen, Like, who knows where to start? But I
17:45
Speaker 3: think that talking really straightly about the fact that you're
17:49
Speaker 3: going through you know, you mentioned before that you were
17:51
Speaker 3: going to have gender affirming surgery and you called it
17:53
Speaker 3: top surgery. I want to know the pervy details. Tony
17:57
Speaker 3: and I were doing some research earlier today just on
18:00
Speaker 3: how much a cost to have gender affirming surgery and
18:03
Speaker 3: what that actually means. There aren't that many stats around
18:06
Speaker 3: and before you and I were having a chat, before
18:09
Speaker 3: we started recording, you were saying, Yeah, that's because there
18:11
Speaker 3: isn't that much, and that's because you know, the Medicare
18:14
Speaker 3: code is the same as people who are having mathstectomies
18:17
Speaker 3: because of cancer, and it just seems wild that we
18:20
Speaker 3: still haven't categorized it. So can you talk us through
18:24
Speaker 3: just the process of paying for that and how that
18:27
Speaker 3: impacts you and what kind of costs you'd be up
18:31
Speaker 3: for for that type of surgery, which you know, in
18:35
Speaker 3: my opinion, should just be one hundred percent covered because
18:37
Speaker 3: it's gender affirming surgery and it should just be one
18:40
Speaker 3: hundred percent on Medicare.
18:42
Speaker 2: To be honest, I didn't think that any of it
18:44
Speaker 2: would be eligible for Medicare. I don't know if that's
18:46
Speaker 2: really naive from me, but no, I just I just
18:49
Speaker 2: didn't have any idea that it would be covered under
18:52
Speaker 2: Medicare at all. I was so relieved when I was
18:54
Speaker 2: doing a bit of research today that to find that
18:56
Speaker 2: it was Yeah, but yeah, I had no idea.
18:59
Speaker 3: But there's so many an associated costs and I'm not
19:01
Speaker 3: going to talk to that because I feel like you're
19:04
Speaker 3: the best person to talk about.
19:05
Speaker 2: Someone here to do it for us.
19:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can do our job absolutely well.
19:11
Speaker 4: When it comes to the costing for top surgery. So
19:16
Speaker 4: just throw a little bit of context for anyone that's listening.
19:20
Speaker 4: I identify as trans. I was, I guess, assigned female
19:26
Speaker 4: at birth, and now have you know, more of a
19:30
Speaker 4: masculine sort of presentation. I just you know, feel more masculine,
19:37
Speaker 4: and as a result, I'd like to have my breast
19:39
Speaker 4: removed to have you know, my outside sort of reflect
19:43
Speaker 4: how I sort of think and view myself internally.
19:47
Speaker 5: So, as you.
19:48
Speaker 4: Said, missectomy surgery that is experienced via folk that have
19:53
Speaker 4: had breast cancer is the adjacent procedure to people who
19:59
Speaker 4: want to refer their gender in a way that requires
20:02
Speaker 4: the removal of breast, and you know, that could result
20:05
Speaker 4: in you know, having like the nipples remain, could result
20:09
Speaker 4: in having them removed completely. The scars and the placement
20:12
Speaker 4: of those scars can look quite different depending on someone's
20:16
Speaker 4: like body size and what look or conferring thereafter, some
20:19
Speaker 4: people choose to leave a little bit of tissue in
20:21
Speaker 4: there if they feel, you know, maybe sometimes they want
20:24
Speaker 4: to have like a more non binary or you know,
20:26
Speaker 4: still have part of that with them. But in terms
20:29
Speaker 4: of costing, you know, I guess It's like a lot
20:33
Speaker 4: of procedures, particularly when we look at cosmetic work. Not
20:37
Speaker 4: to say that this is a cosmetic procedure for folks
20:40
Speaker 4: that it is usually what it is performed by plastic
20:43
Speaker 4: and reconstructive surgeons, but in terms of costing, you could
20:47
Speaker 4: be looking from anywhere from sort of eight or nine
20:51
Speaker 4: thousand dollars if you're getting sort of keyhole surgery where
20:55
Speaker 4: you know, incisions aren't made all the way up to
20:58
Speaker 4: sort of like twenty five thirty k if you don't
21:01
Speaker 4: have you know, full your private health insurance to cover
21:06
Speaker 4: that procedure and.
21:07
Speaker 3: Much money to just be are meant to be.
21:11
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I mean, you know, please keep in mind
21:15
Speaker 4: these are looking at figures that are based sort of
21:17
Speaker 4: around my region, you know, and could be significantly sort
21:21
Speaker 4: of less or more based on where you are and
21:24
Speaker 4: sort of what you need to have done.
21:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm assuming it means that, you know, if
21:29
Speaker 3: you're closer to a capital city, I'm making a grand
21:32
Speaker 3: assumption that it's probably easier to access than if you
21:36
Speaker 3: were remote or you know, interstate where it's just not
21:40
Speaker 3: as common to have these things done. Right.
21:43
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you've definitely got more sort of selection in places
21:46
Speaker 4: like Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane. And I think for me,
21:50
Speaker 4: I've always wanted to move to Sydney, as we touched
21:52
Speaker 4: on earlier in the conversation. But part of it is that,
21:56
Speaker 4: you know, if I'm sort of aware, am I sir,
22:00
Speaker 4: who is going to take place too? In terms of
22:02
Speaker 4: travel time and worry about recovery and things like incisions
22:06
Speaker 4: being disturbed in any way and post operative appointments and
22:10
Speaker 4: check ins and that kind of thing. Obviously, the closer
22:12
Speaker 4: you are to your surgeon, the more accessible and easy
22:15
Speaker 4: those sort of follow up and after care is. And
22:17
Speaker 4: even things like having your partner or a friend close
22:20
Speaker 4: to you can be really important. If you're someone who
22:23
Speaker 4: lives in a more rural region.
22:25
Speaker 5: You know you want to have that support with you,
22:26
Speaker 5: and it can.
22:27
Speaker 4: Be quite difficult to ask friends or family to you know,
22:30
Speaker 4: can you take a week off work with me while
22:32
Speaker 4: I go and have that record it's done. And that's
22:35
Speaker 4: a huge amount of money that you've then got to,
22:37
Speaker 4: you know, pay for accommodation and food. Like there's so
22:39
Speaker 4: many sort of fringe costs associated so when you're getting
22:43
Speaker 4: up into those big expensive figures, like sometimes they might
22:45
Speaker 4: not even include you know, if someone sort of travel
22:50
Speaker 4: and eat, things like transport accommodation willn't even be factored
22:53
Speaker 4: into some of those figures that.
22:54
Speaker 2: I men, sure, what do you want to travel?
22:56
Speaker 3: And I don't know that's very auto So that all
23:01
Speaker 3: makes sense, And I'm actually like baffled that I didn't
23:04
Speaker 3: even think of needing care and all of that, like
23:06
Speaker 3: going through the surgery kind of yeah, like because it
23:10
Speaker 3: would be really invasive. But I think that there's more
23:13
Speaker 3: ongoing costs than you know, I think we realize, like
23:17
Speaker 3: if you've you know, been assigned at birth the wrong gender,
23:21
Speaker 3: that you're going to have costs like hormone treatment and
23:24
Speaker 3: ongoing I would assume a level of therapy that is
23:27
Speaker 3: necessary to make sure that you're in tip top mental
23:30
Speaker 3: health shape. So what does what types of costs are
23:33
Speaker 3: we looking at for that? Because I know that that's
23:36
Speaker 3: a really big component of making sure that you're healthy.
23:39
Speaker 5: Yeah.
23:40
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think, you know, just to preface this
23:42
Speaker 4: entire conversation, you know, things like surgeries and hormones are
23:47
Speaker 4: definitely not required as a component. No, you identify as
23:50
Speaker 4: a trend or you know, non binary individual or wherever
23:53
Speaker 4: you sit on the gender spectrum. But in terms of
23:55
Speaker 4: ongoing costs, things like you know, packers and binders, different
24:00
Speaker 4: sort of like tucking devices for different people of different genders.
24:04
Speaker 4: You know, they're all for the most part imported, you know,
24:09
Speaker 4: from overseas. We don't have a huge market for those
24:13
Speaker 4: kind of items. There are definitely a few different stores
24:16
Speaker 4: and makers that have them here Australia, but generally the
24:19
Speaker 4: cost reflects, you know, the import value. But then you've
24:23
Speaker 4: also got things like you know, hormone replacement therapy if
24:26
Speaker 4: that's an avenue and individual choosers to use, and I
24:30
Speaker 4: believe so everyone's cycles can look a bit different. But
24:33
Speaker 4: if you're someone who's taking testosterone on a twelve sort
24:37
Speaker 4: of weekly interval and I get that injected into my booty,
24:41
Speaker 4: what a fun time. That's forty dollars an injection. And
24:45
Speaker 4: some of that's covered by the previous thankfully for folk
24:49
Speaker 4: that you require that. But yeah, that's another ongoing cost
24:53
Speaker 4: I guess to consider in the same way that you know,
24:56
Speaker 4: if you've got other medications that you might need to take.
24:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, general like, that's not a little undertaking and it's
25:02
Speaker 3: by no means necessary, but it's more if you are
25:06
Speaker 3: trends and you want to go through this process, like
25:08
Speaker 3: I just feel like everyone should have the options and
25:11
Speaker 3: the financial knowledge, like, okay, cool, this is how to
25:14
Speaker 3: impact my budget. But I think the frustrating thing for
25:17
Speaker 3: me is I know there are people out there and
25:19
Speaker 3: I've spoken to them in our community who would love
25:23
Speaker 3: to be on it consistently but just can't manage to
25:25
Speaker 3: get it into their budget. And that breaks my heart
25:28
Speaker 3: because you shouldn't have to be pain to be who
25:30
Speaker 3: you were meant to be, Like it just it it
25:32
Speaker 3: baffles me. And it's not it's not something that should
25:35
Speaker 3: baffle you, but it's more like, ah, cool, So we're
25:38
Speaker 3: not doing nearly enough to support this space because if
25:41
Speaker 3: that's an issue, it shouldn't be. And so for me, yeah,
25:45
Speaker 3: it's not necessary when we look at it, but it's
25:48
Speaker 3: more me going cool, how much does that cost? And
25:50
Speaker 3: like what are ongoing costs? And you know, being trends,
25:53
Speaker 3: I feel like in you know, you're about the same
25:57
Speaker 3: age as us being trends. Obviously when you were a
26:01
Speaker 3: bit younger, did you know, like how did you come
26:03
Speaker 3: to the realization that you were like, nah, this is
26:06
Speaker 3: not the right gender. I need to change it, And like,
26:08
Speaker 3: how did you decide that potentially testosterone and gender affirming
26:13
Speaker 3: surgery were the right decisions for you, Because they're big
26:15
Speaker 3: decisions to make.
26:17
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think making that decision is definitely tied
26:21
Speaker 4: in to costing because I've mentioned before, you know, forty.
26:24
Speaker 5: Dollars every twelve weeks.
26:25
Speaker 4: I think you know, most listeners and both of you
26:28
Speaker 4: could have test but that is a cost that you
26:30
Speaker 4: could look to factor into your budget, of course, But
26:33
Speaker 4: I think it's more of the timing piece. Like when
26:35
Speaker 4: I was younger, if I had to have a day
26:37
Speaker 4: off work to have, you know, because the injection site
26:40
Speaker 4: can be quite tender after having it done, or if
26:42
Speaker 4: you've got a specialist appointment to go and see, you know,
26:45
Speaker 4: your gender doctor or whatever specialists that you've got a
26:48
Speaker 4: part of your team. Because you know, prescribing hormones, there's
26:50
Speaker 4: a lot of blood tests and other sort of health
26:53
Speaker 4: factors to be involved. You know, a lot of folks
26:55
Speaker 4: can't afford to have the day off work, you know,
26:58
Speaker 4: every three months or whenever the frequency of that check
27:01
Speaker 4: in is. And that's why I.
27:03
Speaker 5: Think it's really hard to put a cost on all
27:05
Speaker 5: of this stuff.
27:05
Speaker 4: For our community, because not only have you got to
27:08
Speaker 4: worry about, you know, purchasing the physical hormones or the
27:12
Speaker 4: surgery or the packing or the tucking or like whatever
27:14
Speaker 4: you need to feel like yourself, there's also a component
27:18
Speaker 4: of time, you know, and what costs do you put
27:22
Speaker 4: on that when it's at such a frequent interval. I
27:25
Speaker 4: definitely think I've been you know, a sort of gender
27:28
Speaker 4: ambiguous or you know, butch queer person for forever. I
27:33
Speaker 4: came out as a lesbian at fourteen, and you know,
27:37
Speaker 4: went through high school and I was very lucky that
27:39
Speaker 4: I had a very supportive high school, you know, where
27:42
Speaker 4: my teachers and peers were really good about who I was,
27:45
Speaker 4: and it was almost a bit of a yeah, it
27:47
Speaker 4: was almost a bit of a novelty and like I
27:49
Speaker 4: was very.
27:50
Speaker 3: Like, I'll take all this attention, and yeah, absolutely.
27:57
Speaker 5: It was never a big deal.
27:58
Speaker 4: And I think it was just when you know, connecting
28:01
Speaker 4: with my partner when I did when I was nineteen,
28:03
Speaker 4: and you know, sort of getting out into the world
28:05
Speaker 4: where I was like this sort of narrow perception of gender.
28:09
Speaker 4: I don't really think it's for me, and I think
28:12
Speaker 4: it's something that i'd like to you know, look about,
28:16
Speaker 4: you know, making more aligned with who I am. So yeah,
28:19
Speaker 4: definitely always been in the background, but in terms of
28:22
Speaker 4: making conscious decisions. So I've been on hormones for two
28:25
Speaker 4: years now, and in terms of top surgery, I've thought
28:27
Speaker 4: about top surgery a long time prior to you know,
28:30
Speaker 4: commencing hormones. That's definitely been a front runner for me.
28:34
Speaker 4: But I knew then in order to have surgery and
28:36
Speaker 4: give myself the best shot at healing, I needed to
28:39
Speaker 4: be in a really good space financially.
28:41
Speaker 5: I needed to be get free, and I.
28:43
Speaker 4: Needed to ensure that, you know, having that surgery wasn't
28:47
Speaker 4: going to cause stress and anxiety and out of parts
28:49
Speaker 4: for my life. I don't want to replace one stress
28:51
Speaker 4: with another.
28:52
Speaker 5: I guess yeah.
28:53
Speaker 3: And it's one of those things that you know, as
28:56
Speaker 3: a girl who I would say, I'm a pretty girly girl,
28:59
Speaker 3: and I got a number of ends who do have
29:00
Speaker 3: breast implants. I've had this conversation at brunch a lot.
29:04
Speaker 3: We talk about just the differences between surgeons. And you
29:07
Speaker 3: can get breast implants for six grand or you can
29:09
Speaker 3: get thirty thousand dollars breast implants, And I guess The
29:12
Speaker 3: same goes for gender affirming surgeries, Like like, I just
29:16
Speaker 3: don't think i'd ever fully comprehended that there's so much
29:19
Speaker 3: more to it than just going cool, we'll book in
29:21
Speaker 3: for the surgery yet, Like that's not it.
29:23
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, victory, what you're saying about
29:26
Speaker 4: your friends talking about augmentation, you know over brunch, Like,
29:30
Speaker 4: you know, I want the conversation when we talk with
29:34
Speaker 4: you know, trans and gender diverse spoke to be crush
29:37
Speaker 4: with me absolutely, And I just think that you know,
29:42
Speaker 4: people you know, get breast implants to feel better in
29:46
Speaker 4: a particular outfit or you know looted or in landerie
29:50
Speaker 4: or whatever they're interested in doing. And you know, for
29:54
Speaker 4: a lot of trends and gender nonconforming people that I
29:56
Speaker 4: speak to, For some people, it is as simple as
29:59
Speaker 4: I want to look really great in a in a
30:01
Speaker 4: button down lemon shirt and not be worried about like
30:05
Speaker 4: lumps or bumps. And I think that, you know, let's
30:08
Speaker 4: normalize that conversation, like you know, in terms of really
30:11
Speaker 4: painful dysphoyer and having you know, some of those really
30:15
Speaker 4: sort of downtrodden trans stories. And I'm not dismissing anyone's
30:19
Speaker 4: narrative or experience, But for me, there's discomfort there. Sure,
30:23
Speaker 4: I would prefer that they weren't there, obviously, but you know,
30:27
Speaker 4: it's more about having a body that I want to
30:30
Speaker 4: celebrate as opposed to it being innately bad in the
30:33
Speaker 4: same way that someone you might want to have botox
30:36
Speaker 4: or fillers or a nose job, Like yeah, you.
30:41
Speaker 3: Look at it like that's yeah, that's a really good
30:43
Speaker 3: way to look at it. And I think that there's
30:45
Speaker 3: a lot to be done there as well, right, Like, yes,
30:48
Speaker 3: an affirming surgery is you know, necessary, But also I
30:53
Speaker 3: feel like you need to be in a position where
30:55
Speaker 3: it's something that you should talk about if you want
30:57
Speaker 3: to talk about it, if it's something you want to
30:59
Speaker 3: talk about over brunch, Like I just feel like we
31:01
Speaker 3: shouldn't have to be awkward about it. I'm so pervy.
31:04
Speaker 3: I'd be like, key, Oh, where does it go? How
31:06
Speaker 3: does it work? What does stars look like?
31:08
Speaker 5: You know?
31:08
Speaker 3: Like cool? I want to know what my friends are
31:10
Speaker 3: up to and support their journeys. And I guess that
31:13
Speaker 3: leads into the next question of like how as the
31:16
Speaker 3: she's on the money community, can we as a community
31:20
Speaker 3: better support the trans community? Because I feel like there
31:24
Speaker 3: are so many of you in the community that just
31:28
Speaker 3: don't have as bigger voices as you deserve, or don't
31:31
Speaker 3: feel as comfortable as you should, like how can we help?
31:36
Speaker 4: Absolutely? And I think that, you know, I posted in
31:40
Speaker 4: the community not that long ago about wanting to move
31:43
Speaker 4: to Sydney and seeing if anyone had any sort of
31:45
Speaker 4: rough costing moving into state or doing a big move
31:48
Speaker 4: with you know, an established sort of house and a
31:51
Speaker 4: partner and a pet, and so many folk were coming
31:55
Speaker 4: forward and saying, so for contacts, I want to live
31:57
Speaker 4: in the Inner West, which is known as being you know,
31:59
Speaker 4: quite a an LGBT rainbow friendly part of the world,
32:03
Speaker 4: and so many yes, budget permitting. You know, there are
32:08
Speaker 4: so many folk in the community that we're saying, oh,
32:11
Speaker 4: you know, my partner and I live there, and you know,
32:14
Speaker 4: they've got a wonderful profile photo of them and their
32:16
Speaker 4: female partners, and you know, it's really wonderful that, you know,
32:21
Speaker 4: even in a community that's about budgeting, we're also facilitating,
32:24
Speaker 4: you know, community conversations about you know, gender and sexuality too.
32:30
Speaker 4: Like there's so many different parts to you know, who
32:32
Speaker 4: we are. And I feel like you've created a space
32:35
Speaker 4: that allows people to you know, they don't need to
32:38
Speaker 4: be compartmentalized anymore. You know, the LGBT community, you know,
32:43
Speaker 4: historically has been underrepresented in terms of conversations on finance
32:47
Speaker 4: and money. And you know, we've got a lot of
32:50
Speaker 4: spectrum in the community. You know, you've got tropes of
32:53
Speaker 4: you know, jewel incume, no kids, folks that are you know,
32:57
Speaker 4: really quite comfortable, and then you've got people that unfortunately
33:01
Speaker 4: are so knowing that there's a middle for our community,
33:05
Speaker 4: and you know, there's all different ways of approaching money
33:09
Speaker 4: and being who you are is really really positive.
33:14
Speaker 3: Yeah no, and I love that, and I love that
33:16
Speaker 3: you see that as well. And like I mean, we've
33:18
Speaker 3: talked about it a lot historically about like I said,
33:22
Speaker 3: you and I have talked about it historically, just about
33:25
Speaker 3: what it means and what she's on the money actually means,
33:28
Speaker 3: and that it is not specifically for women, that she
33:31
Speaker 3: and she's on the money is actually me And as
33:34
Speaker 3: lame as that sounds, I think that's a really important
33:36
Speaker 3: differentiation that we need to make.
33:39
Speaker 2: It's not that we are a female exclusive group.
33:42
Speaker 3: Yeah no, that's not what this community is about. And
33:45
Speaker 3: we're about our community, not about women. We at the
33:49
Speaker 3: end of the day, yet started there because women were
33:51
Speaker 3: experiencing significant disadvantage in comparison to men when it came
33:56
Speaker 3: to money. And that's where my piece of education started.
33:59
Speaker 3: And she's the money came from a workshop I was
34:01
Speaker 3: doing because it was created for women because that was
34:04
Speaker 3: my demographic at the time, and since then it has
34:07
Speaker 3: grown from there, and I think it's really important to
34:10
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe I would have changed the name
34:13
Speaker 3: had I known how big this would have gotten. But
34:16
Speaker 3: now I don't regret it for any any stretch of
34:19
Speaker 3: the imagination. But I have had conversations in our DMS
34:22
Speaker 3: before about people being so offended that it's only for women,
34:24
Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, cool, like nuclearly are new here,
34:28
Speaker 3: that's not that's not it, but that's okay, and you
34:31
Speaker 3: know you need to correct them. But I end up
34:33
Speaker 3: feeling quite defensive of it, because.
34:35
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, like, do you know there's no exclusivity?
34:37
Speaker 3: No, Like, where did you get that from? Like I
34:39
Speaker 3: know we're pink and peache, but that doesn't mean that.
34:42
Speaker 2: Surely we are all past buying blue for boys and
34:45
Speaker 2: pink for girls.
34:46
Speaker 3: Like they were to come on and peach, it just
34:49
Speaker 3: looks so esthetic, like and I don't care who you are,
34:51
Speaker 3: like if you don't agree, like, come on, no, but
34:56
Speaker 3: it is really important. I guess that's, you know, something
34:59
Speaker 3: that I want to be very clear about but also
35:03
Speaker 3: want to know. You know, we've got this epic platform.
35:05
Speaker 3: We've got this podcast. We get to share stories like this.
35:08
Speaker 3: We're talking to you this week before we were recording,
35:10
Speaker 3: we were talking about how a few weeks ago we
35:13
Speaker 3: had a priest and then the week later we had
35:15
Speaker 3: a sex worker. And it's just our community is so
35:18
Speaker 3: rich full of things that we can learn and share
35:21
Speaker 3: and support one another on. And I think that that's where,
35:24
Speaker 3: you know, that's the thing that makes me most proud,
35:26
Speaker 3: is just how open our community is. Like, what is
35:28
Speaker 3: something that we can encompass into maybe not just our language,
35:32
Speaker 3: but our daily thought patterns or behaviors, Like what can
35:35
Speaker 3: we do to make sure that everybody feels a little
35:39
Speaker 3: bit more safe and a little bit more secure and
35:41
Speaker 3: a little bit more comfortable when it comes to their
35:44
Speaker 3: gender and what they identify as.
35:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think you know,
35:50
Speaker 4: and no, language is one of those things that you're
35:52
Speaker 4: on paper. I feel like a lot of people like
35:55
Speaker 4: understand and appreciate. But you know, as you know we
35:59
Speaker 4: touched on before. I have like an honors degree that's
36:01
Speaker 4: in English and literature and poetry. Language is so important,
36:07
Speaker 4: right and you know, even like Victoria, when you go
36:10
Speaker 4: like high friends, like immediately to me, I'm like, that's
36:13
Speaker 4: so nice, Like when folk in the community will say
36:16
Speaker 4: like high friends or hi everyone, like I've got a
36:19
Speaker 4: question about and x y Z.
36:20
Speaker 5: And you know.
36:22
Speaker 4: Oh, I saw this really cute person the other day
36:24
Speaker 4: with a pink top and has anyone seen it? I
36:27
Speaker 4: think it looks like x y Z's Like I want
36:29
Speaker 4: to purchase it too. I think neutralizing your language in
36:32
Speaker 4: all situations, you know, when you meet someone for the
36:35
Speaker 4: first time, or you know, if you feel like you're
36:39
Speaker 4: not sure, like asking you know someone's pronouns. Instagram and
36:43
Speaker 4: LinkedIn and a lot of the platforms that you know
36:46
Speaker 4: olt your audience users and we communicate on I've got
36:50
Speaker 4: pronoun functionality now to pop them in, which is so.
36:54
Speaker 3: Like it is so easy and just yeah, I think
36:57
Speaker 3: I think that's sutting in here. I think that's something
37:00
Speaker 3: that I would really like to ask and ask how
37:03
Speaker 3: that's appropriate, and you know, maybe you can give me
37:06
Speaker 3: some feedback on how I've been doing it. But in
37:09
Speaker 3: situations where I felt like, maybe I need to ask pronouns,
37:12
Speaker 3: but that could be awkward because you don't want to
37:14
Speaker 3: make someone feel uncomfortable. But the way I've been doing
37:17
Speaker 3: it is like, oh, hey, Tony, I'm Victoria, so lovely
37:19
Speaker 3: to meet you. Oh just fyi. My pronouncer she her,
37:22
Speaker 3: what were yours? And I feel like, is that a
37:25
Speaker 3: good way to approach it, or is there a better
37:26
Speaker 3: way that we can introduce this into our conversation to
37:30
Speaker 3: just make it more normalized.
37:33
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think the way that you pop it onto
37:36
Speaker 4: yourself first is really powerful because you're opening up that
37:40
Speaker 4: space by offering some personal information about yourself. A lot
37:44
Speaker 4: of times people in our community are placed on a
37:47
Speaker 4: microsope or expected to offer up information that is quite
37:51
Speaker 4: personal before you know, really getting to know someone, and
37:55
Speaker 4: obviously that can be a bit orcs a bit uncomfy.
37:59
Speaker 4: Your pronouns first is showing your ally ship, which you
38:04
Speaker 4: most certainly are an ally of the community, and it
38:08
Speaker 4: means that you're more than willing to you know, curate
38:12
Speaker 4: that conversation or you know, open that up. Someone might
38:15
Speaker 4: choose to respond back to you, or you know, they
38:18
Speaker 4: might they might gloss over it, and if they do,
38:20
Speaker 4: that's fine too. But I think even to what you
38:23
Speaker 4: said before about you know, someone looking really you know,
38:27
Speaker 4: like I perceive you as quite a feminine person, both
38:29
Speaker 4: of you, Like you know, you love dresses and in
38:32
Speaker 4: care and makeup and all of these things that we
38:34
Speaker 4: associate with a feminine But at the same time, you know,
38:37
Speaker 4: you both could have a say them pronoun and identify
38:40
Speaker 4: as non binary. And that's just the way that you
38:42
Speaker 4: choose to present yourself. So I think by placing that
38:45
Speaker 4: pronoun first and offering that information about yourself, that's a
38:50
Speaker 4: really rich way to go about it. And just you
38:53
Speaker 4: know a little bit of research. Like if you know
38:55
Speaker 4: that you're meeting someone for the first time.
38:57
Speaker 5: And you you know it might be to work.
38:59
Speaker 4: Or ID be in a social setting and getting to
39:02
Speaker 4: know someone, maybe jumping on their Instagram or they're social,
39:05
Speaker 4: doing a little bit of a stalky store before you
39:07
Speaker 4: before you connect, gives you the opportunity to just check
39:10
Speaker 4: you that something that they are offering up to people
39:12
Speaker 4: who look at their profiles or look at their content.
39:17
Speaker 4: I've done that many times when meeting with a stakeholder
39:20
Speaker 4: or a new person for the first time, just to
39:22
Speaker 4: confirm with that something that I can get right.
39:24
Speaker 6: Off of that.
39:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.
39:26
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think that social media is making it
39:28
Speaker 3: so much.
39:28
Speaker 6: Easier for us, so much easier.
39:31
Speaker 3: I don't have to ask your pronouns actually on your
39:33
Speaker 3: profile because I had a look before, you know, jumping
39:36
Speaker 3: on and having a chat with you or meeting you
39:38
Speaker 3: in a meeting, I already knew, so I could immediately
39:41
Speaker 3: make you feel comfortable because you've already said, well, not
39:46
Speaker 3: out loud, but you've already said put publicly, that that's
39:50
Speaker 3: what you want to be addressed as. And I just
39:51
Speaker 3: feel like it's not like, obviously it's a massive deal
39:55
Speaker 3: to make sure we're doing it right. But it's not
39:57
Speaker 3: as big a deal as I feel like people make
39:59
Speaker 3: it sometimes to be like cool, how about we just
40:02
Speaker 3: respect people and call them what they want to be called.
40:05
Speaker 3: Like if you were like, oh, hey, Tony, and you'd
40:08
Speaker 3: be like, oh, I don't really like being called Tony.
40:09
Speaker 3: Can you call me this? Yeah? No problems, Like just
40:12
Speaker 3: correct it? Is that right?
40:13
Speaker 4: Like?
40:14
Speaker 3: Should we be over apologizing if we miss gin?
40:17
Speaker 4: Absolutely not no, no, just just glaze over it. And
40:21
Speaker 4: I think it's about you know, particularly maybe older folks,
40:25
Speaker 4: and I don't want to put anyone in demographics, but
40:27
Speaker 4: I think sometimes there's you know a bit of an
40:30
Speaker 4: assumption that you know, gender neutral language or whatever is
40:34
Speaker 4: a bit snow flaky or it's like an extra step
40:37
Speaker 4: that I have to take. But when we think about
40:40
Speaker 4: things like you know, or there's a girl over there
40:42
Speaker 4: in a red shirt, or there's a person with a
40:45
Speaker 4: red shirt, like, we're not actually adding language or making
40:48
Speaker 4: things more complicated. We're usually subbing out or removing words.
40:53
Speaker 5: So really it's a good point.
40:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually like less work if you're typing something
40:58
Speaker 4: out or saying something you know to a friend, or
41:02
Speaker 4: you know, making a presentation. But in terms of overapologizing,
41:06
Speaker 4: the reality is that trands and general conforming people on
41:09
Speaker 4: the basis of their journey, oftentimes maybe not always, are
41:13
Speaker 4: usually pretty self aware and like you know, many of
41:16
Speaker 4: us are quite sensitive, like we don't want to rock
41:18
Speaker 4: the boat. We don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable
41:21
Speaker 4: because we know what it feels like to be made
41:24
Speaker 4: to feel like less than.
41:26
Speaker 5: So if you.
41:26
Speaker 4: Overapologize, it can automatically make us feel like, you know,
41:31
Speaker 4: we've already taken up too much space and no.
41:34
Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. I yeah, I just feel like I
41:40
Speaker 3: was offensive or rude when no, but.
41:43
Speaker 6: Like overcommisting, just just you know, glaze over it and
41:47
Speaker 6: get it right the next time, right, like you know
41:49
Speaker 6: you're going to interact with that person again, and there's
41:51
Speaker 6: so many opportunities in everyday interactions to just get it
41:55
Speaker 6: right the next time.
41:56
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that, And I guess you know, having
41:59
Speaker 3: friends that are friends, I like, I slip into it
42:02
Speaker 3: very easily. I go cool, Like what is this? How
42:04
Speaker 3: does that work? Oh? You're them cool, no problems, Like
42:07
Speaker 3: it's it's really easy. So I think for me it
42:10
Speaker 3: does confuse me a bit when people are like, oh,
42:12
Speaker 3: it's also confusing it's too hard, Like why is it
42:16
Speaker 3: too hard? Is it too hard for you or are
42:17
Speaker 3: you just uncomfortable? And is that just a reflection of
42:20
Speaker 3: maybe you not being who you probably should be? Yeah?
42:26
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess I'm just grateful that we get
42:28
Speaker 3: to learn and we get to share that, and you've
42:31
Speaker 3: been so open and so you know, honest, it's you know,
42:34
Speaker 3: it's really refreshing to be able to have a chat
42:36
Speaker 3: with somebody who you know genuinely wants to teach, even
42:40
Speaker 3: though it's not your like, it's not your job to
42:42
Speaker 3: teach us, but you know you're taking the time to
42:45
Speaker 3: share this journey so that we can be better off
42:47
Speaker 3: and be better our lives and just genuinely be more
42:50
Speaker 3: well rounded educated people. And that's yeah, that's really special.
42:54
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate it.
42:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for holding space for me.
42:57
Speaker 5: I really appreciate it.
42:59
Speaker 3: No, of course it won't be the last time, my friend.
43:03
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, genuinely, so grateful. But as always friends,
43:07
Speaker 3: just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge and
43:09
Speaker 3: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torrestreet island of People's,
43:13
Speaker 3: the traditional custodians at the lands, the waterways and the
43:16
Speaker 3: skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and
43:20
Speaker 3: for caring for the land on which we are able
43:22
Speaker 3: to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
43:25
Speaker 3: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
43:27
Speaker 2: The advice sheed on She's on the money is generally
43:30
Speaker 2: nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on
43:34
Speaker 2: the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not
43:37
Speaker 2: be relied upon to make an investment or any financial decision.
43:41
Speaker 2: And we promise that Victoria Devine is an authorized representative
43:44
Speaker 2: of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABM three four
43:48
Speaker 2: one three two four six three two five seven AFSL
43:52
Speaker 2: three three nine one five one. And I'm going to
43:55
Speaker 2: pop heaps of resources and links that our Money direst
43:58
Speaker 2: this week has provided with us for ways that you
44:00
Speaker 2: can donate and support folk in our community and in
44:05
Speaker 2: hopefully your local area. You know where you can access
44:08
Speaker 2: some information and how you can help out, which is
44:10
Speaker 2: really really important to us. And we hope that you
44:13
Speaker 2: learned a little bit from this money Diary as well.
44:15
Speaker 3: I did. I felt really pervy, but it was so
44:18
Speaker 3: good to learn and just you know, learn what our
44:20
Speaker 3: friends get up to and what impacts them. But see
44:23
Speaker 3: you next week for another money Dairy guys.
44:25
Speaker 1: Hi, I love you