Latest / Sales Trajectory Podcast / “Leadership, Resilience & Mental Health in the Building Industry” with Jason O’Hagan, CEO of Weathertex

Transcript

“Leadership, Resilience & Mental Health in the Building Industry” with Jason O’Hagan, CEO of Weathertex · Sales Trajectory Podcast

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sales Trajectory Podcast, where innovation meets execution in sales.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jason Howers, your host, a 35-year sales veteran and lifelong student of the game.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for leaders and sales professionals with a growth mindset.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear real sales stories about new products, motivating teams to prospect, and boost productivity.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: We dive deep into sales process, cutting edge tech, and recruiting top sales performers.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great to catch up with uh Jason O'Hagan, see uh WeatherTechs today.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your time, Jace.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Good to be here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh just give us a bit of a rundown on uh what you're wearing there.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: TX this is a conversation starter, so we introduced these shirts to all the guys around the factory and our BDM teams, really as a conversation starter and uh to tackle mental illness within the building industry and to get everyone wanting to have a conversation about about things.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good initiative and what Jason Banks and his team's doing at TX and we thought we'd uh spread the word around our factory and and within our BDMs as well.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: We also created it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is a their design, but we WeatherTex also created our own unique design as well, separate to what you see here.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's excellent.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just show us the sleeves, mate, because you got the big little stand-up and you know, with the interest that the um the TX brand, but we've got our own unique version design we've got with the little Weather Tech's trees coming up through the uh design.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's excellent.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, was um part of TX in the early days, so yeah, obviously uh Banksy's a great mate of uh both of ours.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So he's doing some fantastic work out there.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even you know, yourself for your factory workers and your sales team and and the industry, I mean it's it's a touchy point at the moment.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of pressure on everybody, and uh I think it's really good that they've got an option for people to be able to talk to to someone when in need.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly right.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Jace, um look, part of the reason today was, and again, thank you for your time, is just from a CEO's perspective at the moment, what's what's at the top of your mind on a day-to-day basis?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: A number of things, you know, we're w safety is is the paramount thing for us across a number of leverages, keeping everyone safe in our factory and focusing on a whole heap of initiatives we're rolling out across the the business.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Productivity efficiencies and and obviously the market's probably the lowest it's been for some time in regards to just purely measuring building approvals and building starts and where we play in.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: We don't play in the high-rise apartment market, so we're in medium density and single dwellings.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a tough market out there at the moment.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's competing for a a smaller chunk of the pie.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I I see signs of improvement.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: The interest rate cut will help things, and and you know, within six or twelve months, hopefully things have improved.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've known each other for I was thinking about it last night since the in the in the the nineties and when you were with BBC and Bunnings back in uh early 02.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: We did some work together.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: From your experience, how would you place this current market compared to say past major challenges over the years, you know, GST, GS.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: As you said, we've been through those cycles many times, and it's just part of the building industry, isn't it?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think this one's been a long probably a little bit longer than anticipated because we're coming off such a big high prior to you know the post-COVID numbers, and the building industry was probably punching at at numbers that we hadn't seen in the past as well, in regards to approvals and number of home homes.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: But and that's impacted where we are now.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Supply chains was an issue, supply of products, labour shortages, and and that's what we're seeing now.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to get labour is a difficult part as well.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the cost of building the cost of homes, the time it takes to build homes.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's probably yeah, over the time it's probably one of the uh the the lowest peaks in terms of approval and just purely just measuring approval numbers numbers where we are in the last 20 or 30 years.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: But we'll we'll come out of it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when the industry does come out, we're gonna come out really, really strong, and it's probably gonna be another little mini sort of post-COVID boom, I'm expecting, given the underlying requirement for houses that need to be built.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: There is some really good signs.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually was thinking back yesterday as well, because I used to actually sold Weather Techs uh in in the early nineties when I worked down uh in a trust plan timber yards.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean the product uh yeah is always easy to get.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Never an issue on site and yeah, highly regarded.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it is really good to see, you know, you guys are still going strong.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I think some of the things you mentioned as well, uh what we're hearing from a lot of our clients at the moment is that you know, costs sales went up during the COVID, they now come back, but the costs are higher.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the uh which leads me to my next question, because a lot of the sales people are having trouble sort of now getting to that, you know, you know, they're having to fight back a lot of competition, but they're also having, you know, people like yourself say, hey guys, you know, we we need to grow market share.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what's what's your thoughts on that?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, from a manufacturing point of view, that's the thing, the cost of producing, the input costs continue to increase, electricity, gas, everything from a manufacturing, not only weather techs, but a general manufacturer, everything continues to increase.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really hard to sustain costs, and and and then it's a really aggressive marketplace in regards to the size of the pie is reducing.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So everyone's competing for a smaller share.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's tough.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: You just gotta be the best.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing we focus on is relationships and and doing the right thing and being, you know, we've got a sustainable product that's that's 97% timber, 3% wax.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we really focus on, you know, we have no silicas for amaldehydes, glues, resins, or silica.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: So from a health and safety perspective, we're we're a we're a very real option in terms of health and safety on building sites and cutting the product lightweight.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we try and really sell on our features and benefits as much as we can, albeit price points a really key thing, but we're also really competitively priced out in the marketplace as well.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we've just got to go through these little challenging times we've got and uh poke our head up on the other side when when we It's actually good.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I saw one of you guys do a video, uh I think it was in the last few days, and just the way he spoke and the message he di delivered was right on point with what you said.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, I mean it yeah, it is ninety percent, ninety-seven percent timber and and uh and resin, isn't it?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you don't have any issues on that side.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really uh positive thing for you guys.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a key unique unique selling point for us.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you know, sustainable there's a lot of greenwashing around the place and a whole heap of building materials, but you know, we we're a real sustainable option, then there's no greenwashing and and third-party credentials we have that certify our product rather than us just tell everyone how good we are.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's excellent.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jace, what what's sort of and I obviously you've got a very strong sales background.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So even as CEO, I know you're very actively involved in the sales team.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just what does your sales team look like?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: How many sort of w what are the layers of the team?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, we've got um the national marketing manager that that runs all our marketing and websites, and you see all the beautiful content that we we put around LinkedIn and and social media.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fantastic job there.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have a group of BDMs, which we have four in Queensland, six in in New South Wales, and well we've got five in Victoria, Tassie, South Australia, and uh then three sales state sales manager, Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria, or Vic Taz, South Australia, and then Gavin Wilson, who's in Victoria, he also looks after New Zealand for us.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we we export to about 16 countries around the world as well.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: So about 20% of our volume is is export business, where we find a reseller like Hudson's, Bunnings, MITE 10's equivalent in a country that's already selling building materials into that particular country, and then they take WeatherTex on board as a as an additional product and take that to the market via their their um it's a good way to share it around too, isn't it?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, the market softens off a little bit somewhere.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to have uh a bit of option to be able to pick up if it's if the market's going strong somewhere else.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do you define managing the sales team?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have I've got the three sales managers in each state, so they they fundamentally run each of the states from a sales leadership perspective and salesman, and then they report through to me, as does the national marketing team and then the factory team.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So having that sales managers is effective and and they they're out there, you know, working with their BDM teams and creating demand for product buyer, resellers, builders, architects, designers, installers.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you guys cover a a wide range there at the channels, don't you?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think without without that coverage, though, it's sort of hard to be able to pull it through via just one or two, isn't it?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you've really got to have that sort of level of communication.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: We have um three distributors in the market, Myers, Timbury, Victoria, buy themselves there in Victoria, then ITI and Forest One in every other state.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um that they're the distributors that sell to the resellers of the world and bring the product to market by our supply chain.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then our BDM team and sales management teams out there creating demand for weather tech via the builders and then specifiers, architects and designers to get it specified on the plans.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So what percentage of time would a BDM spend, say, with a builder compared to with a reseller?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any sort of golden number or uh Yeah, I mean our job it's funny, you know, because our customer, our customer is our distributors, and we, you know, ITI Forest One.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, but we really focus on working closer with our customers, customers, customers.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: M teams primarily out there with the resellers, resellers, reps, and them also builders, developers, architects, and designers.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we're creating the builder wants to use Weathertechs for the particular features and benefits that gives.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: They then go to their reseller to provide pricing, and our reseller chooses a distributor to buy the product from.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we're really out there focusing on, you know, customers, customers' comfort, working customers, customers, customer, creating that demand to pull it up through the supply chain.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you go with some salespeople over the years?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you find they sort of handle these different layers and different strategies?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that some are stronger in a particular area than than others?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's a very much so.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a true business development role at its core because you don't have a customer base.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so these guys are out there surely creating demand and w and business development.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: You wake up in the morning, you know, a traditional sales rep BDM role in our industry, you have maybe a hundred customers, you have a a monthly sales budget of call it 500,000 bucks, you have a gross profit margin budget of call it 20%, and that equals so much gross profit dollars.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and you've got a hundred customers that you can call on and break your day and months up into that particular call cycle.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where our team doesn't have a group of customers, you know.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: The only customers we see is our distributors and what they buy that sells through the channels through the the timber and hardware merchants.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is it's a true BDM role in its heart, in its core of it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people, it doesn't work for them because they're used to having they want that discipline of a customer base and and this is who I call on, and then they can see the results from calling it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's not for everybody.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you when you do good how do you find and I know you've recruited for a long time, but is all that recruitment done in-house?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Fundamentally, yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: We we have used you know recruitment agencies in the past, but we we we tend to do most of the recruitment in house.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you how's your sort of hit strike rate on that?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: How do you or how do you go finding good people these days?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's it's difficult.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um in a lot of cases of recent times it's word of mouth.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So people understanding and knowing there's a role with WeatherTex and and you know, I guess it's our reputation on our brand that we can create, we can attract good c quality people because they know who Weathertechs is and and the culture of our business and the people that work with it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very key part.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I spoke to someone the other day and putting ads up and getting 10 or 20 people applying, because you know, and I think that's the thing, if you do have that that's a reward for being a good business and having a good culture and having that good environment people want to work in, it attracts you more.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's always interesting to hear it from from your side of things.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just on on from a compensation part point of view, and again, we we're just trying to gather some more information here.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what what sort of from your thoughts if you're going to market at the moment, what what do you feel is a good BD sort of package at the moment or something like that?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it varies more.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, one one of the we put we what we can see, we have a unique incentive package because once again, as I said before, our BDMs don't have an individual sales budget because they don't have a customer base.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we very much focus on a team-based number, so a state-based number, and then that turns into a monthly target and a then a quarterly target, then obviously an annual target, and it's measured by state.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a team-based incentive that a state achieves a quarterly target per quarter, and every team gets a gets a um an incentive that we've set up in for that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then so it's four quarters, and then it's an annual target plus a stretch target.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So fundamentally each member of the team has to be out there creating demand and working within the to achieve a team number, a team target.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we found that attractive.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: We clearly base it on on revenue, yes.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: From what our the way we measure that is what our distributors purchase weather techs.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's uh that's good.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate your you give me a bit of a rundown there.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I and uh what just from your experience, even when you're in your past roles like in Bunnings and stuff like that, I mean you're running a big sales team of how many people did you have back then?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think we had about 150 sales reps around the country.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard of people say this before.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like herding cats when you got that many people out on the road.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean what like Yeah, well I guess there was a lot more tier tiers broken down there.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you had area sales managers and state sales managers, and and um so you had a lot more tiers in in regards to leadership and management.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: I guess because you're selling direct to builders, you had a lot more sales data as well, analytical business.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you had you know sales by product, sales by builder, uh target a whole cross-range of products.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So Builder A, we're not selling doors to so let's go target them with doors or or or toilets or tapware or trusses and frames and selling a larger suite of products.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think from that point of view it's sales by product and target products by customer, and a lot more analytical information you could gather as well.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot more measurement and a lot more opportunity to put incentives in place based on those targets.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And do you do you feel that um with the incentives that does everyone chase them, or do you find there's only a percentage of people that sort of chase it?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I guess the the key part is making it ach achievable.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like what we do here, you know, there's no point setting a a budget of wanting to get 20% growth in a market that's declining by 20%.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's the the the you know, guys and girls just can't see the trees through the forest.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And actually so it's achievable targets is really important.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: And most people I think if you've got an achievable target and it's set up and it's measurable and they can understand it, that's the key part of it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's measurable and it's achievable.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's right in line with what I've been looking at at the moment with the with the white paper I'm putting together.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think and again, if you've got one that's not achievable, people just give up, particularly if it's an annual one, too.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if it's an annual bonus and you're one or two months in and you and and that's it's all over red rover, everyone walks away.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to trace it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, business I hear businesses out there, obviously everyone wants to have an increase on last year.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of doing business, but you've got to be realistic in a in a marketplace if you're trying to achieve a 20-30% growth in a market that's declining.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Really hard to get people motivated to achieve that number.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're dead right.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel do you feel that salespeople, new ones that are coming through, do you feel they're getting better, or do you think the quality of salespeople in our industry is declining?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the interesting question.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's if I look at my team, you you you've got to be programmed that agree.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: We've got we I believe we've got a you know one of the best BDM teams in the country that I that I see and talk to.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're very focused on measurable growth.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: CRM's a really integral part of our sales journey and documenting information on the customers you're seeing and who you're meeting with.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and so that's really and it's very transparent as well.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's the key part of it.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Transparency is the key.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: You can all look at the CRMs and see Joe Vlogs has called on such and such how many times and where they're up to, and sharing information that's honest and open.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I I guess it's varying depending on the age of the people too, which is the longevity in the industry, it it all varies as well in that space.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's the challenge at the moment.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of people, if you're any good, you're in a leadership role.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the challenge of of coming through, and obviously that's where we want to try and help is yeah, help bring in the younger generation.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you mentioned about CRM is really good because it really should help someone sell.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and I know that, yeah, you guys are are really uh again, everything you're saying is is good practice and that's that's the success you're sh seeing now, is the CRM it's it's it's a tool for the BDMs out there to help manage their customer base and their area more effectively.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not a tool to be looked at at who's who's looking over their shoulder.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's about it's a tool that helps them be more effective.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's part of the concern, isn't it, too?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think people think, oh, they're watching everything and all that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when I was managing a team of nearly, you know, 16, 18 people, I mean, well, I needed to know what was happening in the market.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not on if as a leader, if you're not on top of it, well then you don't know what's going on in the market.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think technology's come a long way.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have some like any leading KPIs for the the salespeople like to to tick off their incentives?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we do, yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: We have a number of we classify them as HPA, so high payoff activities.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we're really focused on what the high payoff activities are in terms of number of calls, number of customers, how often you want to be in front of specifiers, builders, developers, etc.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So and we also focus on the low payoff activities.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what's what's not a focus on it, but what are the activities that you low payoff activities that you don't want to be part of to um that you like we'll waste a lot of time doing.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really two focuses, focusing on our HPAs and being focused on what what are the low PR pay low payoff activities and how do we get get them out of our our day-to-day routine.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, fair call.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh in regards to compensation from a split, do you have a bit of a number yourself that you like to work on as far as base compared to incentive sort of levels?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Or uh to give an ex without give an exact numbers like our our incentive per BDM, if everyone ticks an individual or their state team ticks every box, uh what's it with the BDM, they can earn up to 40% of their gross of their of their salary.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: So if they if they get all four quarters past the post and then the annual target with a stretch, um a BDM can earn up to 40% or Kim will earn 40% of their base salary.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: They paid that out in the past in different states.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the old story, I mean, if you if you sort of put too much on the table, and I see this quite often, if you pay too high a base and that person is comfortable with that base, well then and you want to grow the sales, but they're going, well, I'm not really too worried about it, you know.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a trap.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that base bases have sort of gotten a little bit high?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think in the Yeah, we've we've seen that in Victoria we we're just recruited a BDM and some of the numbers that people are asking for a BDM role are um significantly high.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know whether it's an expectation or or other businesses are paying that number, but we we can't entertain that sort of base for BDM.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people are looking 150k base we we found in some states for a BDM role.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that that was that's extremely high.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well I'll share some stuff with you guys.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and I think that that's a a good way to look at it, because yeah, that's from my experience.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think what do they they say you should pay the basis to survive on and to live on, but the incentive is uh is um is really to drive that new business.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Anything an incentive, isn't it?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not guaranteed, that's the thing.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you you work hard to to get the incentives.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think at the moment there's a lot of uh pressure in that area, and and I think as you said, it's it's a lot of it's because the expectations on budgets set.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the other thing, as you mentioned before, I mean if prices are coming down as well, you've got to sell more to get the same volume.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so we really try and focus on activity like the high pay effectivity.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So focus on the right type of activity will deliver that the appropriate results.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right, mate.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I do appreciate your time there.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that's that's covered off uh yeah, a fair bit.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: That problem.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's cool.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna hit stop, but I might just show you something.
• 20:20
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• 20:23
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• 20:23
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