Latest / She Rises with Ashy & Tijana / 86. Tired Mums, Let’s Talk: Baby Sleep, Myths & Must-Knows

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86. Tired Mums, Let’s Talk: Baby Sleep, Myths & Must-Knows · She Rises with Ashy & Tijana

0:05
Speaker 1: Apodjay Production. Welcome to the Shee Rises Podcast. I'm Ashi
0:13
Speaker 1: and I'm Tiana.
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Speaker 2: This podcast is about female empowerment and encouraging you to
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Speaker 2: be your biggest, boldest, and most authentic version of yourself.
0:20
Speaker 1: We help you shed the shame, grow to a new level.
0:23
Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone
0:26
Speaker 1: else is too afraid to talk about. Get ready for
0:29
Speaker 1: your next level of self. Hello everybody, and welcome back
0:32
Speaker 1: to the Shee Risers Podcast. We have a very special
0:34
Speaker 1: guest on. This is someone that a lot of people
0:36
Speaker 1: requested to have on and it's the sweet teacher Beg. Welcome,
0:40
Speaker 1: Thank you, so happy to be here. So this topic,
0:43
Speaker 1: I feel is a little bit controversial online, but before
0:47
Speaker 1: we get into it, every single Monday we ask our
0:49
Speaker 1: guests or we share a recommendation of the week to
0:52
Speaker 1: have something you want to share with us.
0:53
Speaker 3: I am loving Ginny and Georgia the show.
0:57
Speaker 1: I've heard of this, We've heard of that.
0:58
Speaker 3: Season three has just dropped on netflick okay, and it's great.
1:03
Speaker 3: I binged it Girlie Sexual. It's like sort of following
1:08
Speaker 3: teenagers at high school. Yeah mom, and the drama with
1:12
Speaker 3: the adults as well.
1:13
Speaker 2: Okay, but okay, dramably love it bringing in the drama.
1:20
Speaker 1: Alrighty, I'm going to jump straight into a bunch of
1:22
Speaker 1: questions because whenever I talk about sleep training my children,
1:26
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pushback, but there's also equally a
1:28
Speaker 1: lot of curiosity and questions that come through, and always like,
1:31
Speaker 1: go speak to Beck, Go speak to Beck. But totally
1:34
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to cover all today. So, as
1:36
Speaker 1: I said, it is a very controversial topic. How do
1:39
Speaker 1: you find the pushback or the opinions that come through?
1:42
Speaker 1: And people say, oh, like sleep training is so bad?
1:45
Speaker 1: Is that just cried out? You need to soothe your baby?
1:48
Speaker 1: Like what is your initial response and what is sleep training?
1:50
Speaker 3: I feel like the internet kind of wants to put
1:55
Speaker 3: you in one of two camps, and it's like your
2:00
Speaker 3: baby led co sleeping, breastfeeding and demand or all that
2:04
Speaker 3: sort of thing. And then you've got the other extreme,
2:07
Speaker 3: which is like nope, from when they get home to
2:10
Speaker 3: the minute on a routine, which just isn't the case.
2:13
Speaker 3: They're like such extremes and there's just this messy middle
2:17
Speaker 3: which usually most families fall into. Yeah, and I think
2:21
Speaker 3: unfortunately it's really loud on the internet, and so it
2:25
Speaker 3: can feel like it's hard for mums because they feel
2:29
Speaker 3: stuck in fear of being judged. And so sleep training
2:35
Speaker 3: is just making changes that feel really good for that family.
2:39
Speaker 3: It's not all or nothing. It can be so different
2:44
Speaker 3: for every family and just what's sustainable for them and
2:47
Speaker 3: just to make them feel confident and like parenting. Yes,
2:53
Speaker 3: because unfortunately we can see like sleep deprivation and this
2:58
Speaker 3: narrative of like that's just what it is when you
3:01
Speaker 3: become a mother. You just have to suck it up
3:04
Speaker 3: and you know, sleep when you're dead literally and it's
3:08
Speaker 3: really hard because you lose yourself and it can't hope. Yeah,
3:12
Speaker 3: I sleep, and especially when you've got more than one child.
3:16
Speaker 3: Sleep training is for you know, those parents that really
3:20
Speaker 3: want to feel confident and not just survive this seak, yes,
3:25
Speaker 3: which you don't have to.
3:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even just about the adults sleeping, which
3:28
Speaker 1: one hundred percent that was a big reason for me.
3:30
Speaker 1: Could you talk about the importance of your baby getting
3:33
Speaker 1: enough sleep because it impacts their moods, their brain development,
3:36
Speaker 1: the way they eat.
3:37
Speaker 3: The brain does most of it's heavy lifting during sleep,
3:41
Speaker 3: so development, their immunity, the growth haunsters released in deep sleep. Obviously,
3:48
Speaker 3: mental health for the parent is big glass. Yeah, so
3:53
Speaker 3: it is very important. We know how important sleep is,
3:56
Speaker 3: but unfortunately we are in a bit of a society
3:59
Speaker 3: at the moment where it's like go, go go, and
4:01
Speaker 3: like put sleep on the back burner, which you can
4:05
Speaker 3: do for a certain amount of time, but it does
4:08
Speaker 3: catch up with you eventually and you just become a
4:11
Speaker 3: bit more snappy and you don't enjoy it, and it
4:14
Speaker 3: is like, I just want this to pass into is
4:17
Speaker 3: such a beautiful season which you can enjoy and sort
4:23
Speaker 3: of not have to wake up and be like, oh
4:26
Speaker 3: another day, like dread the day. Yeah, anxiety is so
4:30
Speaker 3: common as well, like that dread of the sunset of
4:33
Speaker 3: like what's tonight? Yeah?
4:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also just want to say before we
4:37
Speaker 1: get deep into this conversation too, I just don't think
4:40
Speaker 1: there and I'm sure you agree there isn't like a
4:41
Speaker 1: one size fits all. It depends on the child, the parent,
4:45
Speaker 1: the family, your lifestyle, your values. And we're not four again,
4:49
Speaker 1: why not a person I'm at four against I've got
4:50
Speaker 1: friends that and mums that go with the flow and
4:53
Speaker 1: they do their thing and it's beautiful works for them
4:56
Speaker 1: me and my personality, and I suppose because I run
4:58
Speaker 1: a business too, I thrive on routine. So from get
5:02
Speaker 1: go it was always going to be we're in a
5:04
Speaker 1: good routine. And you know, people frowned upon it or
5:07
Speaker 1: laughed at it, but sleep was so important to me
5:11
Speaker 1: that this was just like a non It wasn't even
5:13
Speaker 1: a question where I was going to be around this
5:15
Speaker 1: or not.
5:15
Speaker 3: And it can be really tricky as well if you
5:18
Speaker 3: are that sort of person coming into motherhood, yeah, because
5:22
Speaker 3: you do lose control. And it's not about controlling where
5:27
Speaker 3: looking at sleep changes and things like that, it's just
5:30
Speaker 3: getting into a bit of a rhythm and being able
5:33
Speaker 3: to predict, well, is your baby hungry? Are they tied?
5:37
Speaker 3: Like are they just annoyed and they're crying because something's
5:40
Speaker 3: itchy on them? Like a lot of the time, like
5:43
Speaker 3: crying is a big fear for lots of parents because
5:46
Speaker 3: it can be triggering and it always kind of like
5:49
Speaker 3: shut it down, stop it, which I'm always like, crying
5:53
Speaker 3: is communication exactly, just how babies communicy exactly. And so
5:58
Speaker 3: I try to teach families and the sleep picture. You know,
6:02
Speaker 3: the girls that we work with as well. It's just
6:05
Speaker 3: about sort of responding and not reacting and trying to
6:09
Speaker 3: like silence everything and really force things, you know, And
6:14
Speaker 3: it's just learning the different cues and that sort of thing.
6:17
Speaker 3: And so that's where rhythm comes into it and can
6:20
Speaker 3: be beautiful and take a lot of the guest workout.
6:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing I think a lot of people are
6:25
Speaker 1: really scared of is the whole cry out method. And
6:27
Speaker 1: I want to just say straight out, that is not
6:29
Speaker 1: what you do. It's not what I've ever done or
6:31
Speaker 1: what I've ever been taught. It was really cool to
6:33
Speaker 1: learn different cues, ways to support them. Like, for example,
6:37
Speaker 1: when Tyler was crying, it wasn't just like ignore her
6:40
Speaker 1: for half an hour and hopes she goes back down.
6:42
Speaker 1: It was like depending on the age too, Like there's
6:44
Speaker 1: so many beautiful ways you can sue them and you
6:46
Speaker 1: learn their cries. Like I feel like it's different cries
6:49
Speaker 1: for when I'm more confident. Yeah, you do. And even
6:52
Speaker 1: like little things like before the nap or before bedtime,
6:55
Speaker 1: we still use the same cues. It's the sleep sack,
6:57
Speaker 1: it's the white noise, it's the books, a sing along,
7:00
Speaker 1: a cuddle, and it's just all those little things help
7:02
Speaker 1: them to go, oh, it's time for bed. Whereas if
7:04
Speaker 1: you don't have an of those things or like a
7:05
Speaker 1: little routine in place, they kind of don't know what's happening,
7:08
Speaker 1: and I think they feel unpredictable. I think they feel
7:11
Speaker 1: more safer and confident when they know what's coming up next.
7:14
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, routine. Babies love predictability ffety exactly. And the
7:21
Speaker 3: brain is always looking for patterns and that's formed two repetitious.
7:25
Speaker 3: So the more we do something, the more comfortable it feels. Yeah.
7:29
Speaker 3: So this is what happens when something's working for a family,
7:33
Speaker 3: Like they might be feeding to sleep or rocking to sleep,
7:35
Speaker 3: and then babies outgrow settling, so if we don't sort
7:41
Speaker 3: of move with them, particularly as they get older, they
7:44
Speaker 3: can start to resist. So the feed or the rock
7:47
Speaker 3: it's not working anymore. It's taking an hour or two hours,
7:50
Speaker 3: and then they're sleeping, we're transferring them and then they're awake.
7:54
Speaker 1: And looking for that again to get rollway.
7:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like another hour or two. So this
7:59
Speaker 3: is where parents are like stuck because that child is
8:03
Speaker 3: crying and it's like, well that's okay because we can
8:07
Speaker 3: teach that child something like sleep doesn't have to look
8:11
Speaker 3: like that. But there's this messy, sort of gray area
8:15
Speaker 3: where we're guiding them to a new sort of pattern
8:20
Speaker 3: which takes time. Us parents sort of want it immediate,
8:26
Speaker 3: you know, and it's like, we've just got to give
8:28
Speaker 3: your baby some space and some time to adapt. And
8:33
Speaker 3: absolutely you can be there and reassure and sup, but
8:37
Speaker 3: we don't need to run in and go back to
8:40
Speaker 3: that path of these resistance because this is where it
8:44
Speaker 3: does get messy and gray. You So they can't pick
8:46
Speaker 3: up a pattern, so it just is like more crying, yeah,
8:50
Speaker 3: Mum and dad trying to do everything, rocky picking up Paddy,
8:53
Speaker 3: trying to suppress the cry bag. So and this is
8:56
Speaker 3: where sleep training gets a bad rap because they're like,
8:59
Speaker 3: I've tried it, it doesn't yeah, And it's like it's
9:02
Speaker 3: not just the settle, right, it's like what's happening through
9:05
Speaker 3: the day with naps, sleep pressure, coming up to bed
9:07
Speaker 3: our times. All that stuff is what we look at
9:10
Speaker 3: and what sleep consultants look at. And then obviously it's
9:12
Speaker 3: like realistic expectations of how long your baby's going to
9:18
Speaker 3: take to start to become a bit more comfortable. Yeah. Yeah,
9:22
Speaker 3: this way of sleeping.
9:23
Speaker 1: It's so easy to get into habits too. Like I'll
9:25
Speaker 1: speak from experience with Tylo I giggle at it now.
9:28
Speaker 1: But she didn't take a dummy and she couldn't quite
9:30
Speaker 1: suck her thumb, so we got into a habit of
9:32
Speaker 1: her sucking our fingers to sleep. And at first it's like, oh, cute,
9:36
Speaker 1: kit cute. And Christy who previously owned the Sleep Teacher
9:39
Speaker 1: brand and now you've taken over. She came out and
9:42
Speaker 1: did a console which your girls do for you on
9:44
Speaker 1: our tea that work for you, which is awesome, so
9:45
Speaker 1: you can do online training or someone comes to my house.
9:48
Speaker 1: So I got it to my house and just show
9:49
Speaker 1: me your routine and then put my fingers in Teller's mouth.
9:52
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, we're going to stop that.
9:53
Speaker 3: I remember, yeah, because that was with Christie. We were
9:57
Speaker 3: talking about that and it's so common, like because when
9:59
Speaker 3: they're little, they do like they want to like to
10:01
Speaker 3: suck and yeah, so it's a really commin sleep association.
10:05
Speaker 1: Oh it is, they go totally. But it was cool
10:07
Speaker 1: just to have that support because I was like, oh
10:08
Speaker 1: my god, this is working. I don't want to stop
10:10
Speaker 1: because then she won't sleep. But yeah, it was literally
10:12
Speaker 1: like two days later and she was over it. Yeah,
10:14
Speaker 1: she did not need it. It was like a story
10:16
Speaker 1: I cream in my head. And yes, in those two days,
10:19
Speaker 1: I went and rubbed her back and supported her a
10:20
Speaker 1: bit more and reassured her I was there.
10:22
Speaker 3: But then she was over.
10:23
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that was way easy.
10:26
Speaker 3: We build it up in our head and as well,
10:28
Speaker 3: like we are told constantly like crying is bad, don't
10:32
Speaker 3: let it happen, so that as well kind of plays
10:34
Speaker 3: into it as well, which we understand. Crying is not
10:37
Speaker 3: comfortable for anyone, yeah, especially when it's your little baby,
10:41
Speaker 3: but it is part of it, you know else, Okay, yeah, exactly,
10:45
Speaker 3: And I always say like we want them to grow
10:48
Speaker 3: up and be able to cry. There's very true. And
10:52
Speaker 3: point is where like, don't die, it's okay.
10:55
Speaker 2: It's like what you said, it's like triggering for the
10:57
Speaker 2: parents to hear the crass and it's triggering the parents'
11:01
Speaker 2: response to be like okay, let me stop this triggering.
11:03
Speaker 3: Most we're fine.
11:03
Speaker 1: The moms that are more And I can only speak
11:05
Speaker 1: from experience too. When I was really dysregulated in my
11:08
Speaker 1: nervous system, I was so overstimulated by noise, so I
11:10
Speaker 1: would try and quiet and it was with Tyler I
11:12
Speaker 1: felt like I was more regulated, so I could allow
11:14
Speaker 1: the cries a little bit more and still support her.
11:16
Speaker 3: Where it's a taj I was like, oh.
11:18
Speaker 1: We got something's wrong. I'm a bad fum, Like I
11:20
Speaker 1: need to shush. This is so upset all the time.
11:21
Speaker 3: But it's just the noise that we hear. It's the noise.
11:24
Speaker 2: Makes sense as a first time parent as well, to
11:26
Speaker 2: have so much uncertainty around being a parent, of becoming
11:29
Speaker 2: and stepping into the motherhood role. It's like you're in
11:32
Speaker 2: this whole new game. I mean I can't speak from experience,
11:34
Speaker 2: but I imagine that you're in this whole new game of
11:36
Speaker 2: like everything is uncharted territory. I haven't done this before.
11:39
Speaker 2: I don't know how to na well, and there's no
11:41
Speaker 2: manual of how to.
11:42
Speaker 3: Do this, and we are so lacking a village now.
11:46
Speaker 1: Oh we take about this often.
11:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. I feel so sad for some family too into
11:52
Speaker 3: parenthood because it's so isolating and we used to have.
11:57
Speaker 1: Some aultres still do.
11:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the village of like yeah, and you know,
12:01
Speaker 3: it's just a lot more isolating, and we're looking at
12:03
Speaker 3: lives through a screen that are only seeing what they
12:06
Speaker 3: highlight real exactly, so that can be really hard they comparison.
12:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to Tiana about there the other day. Actually,
12:12
Speaker 1: just like an African and Chinese cultures. I'm sure other
12:15
Speaker 1: cultures too, It's like it literally is a village and
12:17
Speaker 1: there's the forty days postparton with the mum is horizontal,
12:20
Speaker 1: and the grandma's and the aunties and the sisters, and
12:22
Speaker 1: everyone comes in and takes the baby and the mom
12:24
Speaker 1: rests and like the whole village they were breastfeeding at
12:27
Speaker 1: each other's babies and helping each other. And here it's like, oh,
12:30
Speaker 1: you're an amazing mum. You're doing it all. You're working years,
12:33
Speaker 1: you know, were praised for doing all. Yet we're crumbling
12:36
Speaker 1: and burning out.
12:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I see like posts as well on Instagram
12:42
Speaker 3: of like you should be doing the Fornia thing, and
12:44
Speaker 3: it's like, or you know, why would I be working
12:47
Speaker 3: when I can be at the beach. It's like that's
12:50
Speaker 3: so not reality. There's so many so true. All these
12:54
Speaker 3: families have mostly two working parents, Yeah, still struggling or
12:59
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of the Emily. Yeah, it's like.
13:01
Speaker 1: Daycares one hundred days a day, so they can't even
13:04
Speaker 1: afform to get Carey in bed for forty days and
13:06
Speaker 1: get two other children literally.
13:08
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's just really the expectation I think is
13:11
Speaker 3: up here and we've lost the village, so all we
13:15
Speaker 3: have to pay for Like I had paid for it,
13:16
Speaker 3: I had to.
13:17
Speaker 1: I chose to pay for a dueler to have my
13:19
Speaker 1: village around. Yeah, and she was amazing, But all of
13:21
Speaker 1: the time that's not affordable for a lot of families.
13:24
Speaker 1: I saw a thing on Instagram the other day. It
13:26
Speaker 1: was I was like, wow, that's so true. We spend
13:27
Speaker 1: so much money on a wedding, a wedding ring, a
13:30
Speaker 1: beautiful nursery, the most expensive prem and like doing all
13:33
Speaker 1: that up. It's like, don't save that money and spend
13:36
Speaker 1: it on a dueler and get the care that you
13:37
Speaker 1: need for your body and then emotional support. It's the
13:40
Speaker 1: best thing a mom could do. I one hundred percent agree.
13:44
Speaker 1: I would love to ask you because I have friends
13:46
Speaker 1: have said this to me, and I'd love to know
13:48
Speaker 1: what your response would be. Got one particular friend and
13:50
Speaker 1: she's like, my kids just don't like sleep. I've tried everything.
13:54
Speaker 1: My kids just don't flush to sleep. I'm like, of
13:57
Speaker 1: course they want to sleep. Everyone wants to sleep. What
14:00
Speaker 1: do you say to moms that are convinced that their
14:02
Speaker 1: child is the child that will not go to sleep.
14:04
Speaker 3: It's hard because when you do have that child, it
14:07
Speaker 3: does feel like that. But typically I don't think any
14:12
Speaker 3: baby is born hating sleep. You know, it is biologically
14:16
Speaker 3: what we do, you know, So it is a skill.
14:19
Speaker 3: Some babies need a little bit more guided, more guidance,
14:23
Speaker 3: it's a nice way to put it. Yeah, So you know,
14:25
Speaker 3: some take to it really easily. They usually have a
14:28
Speaker 3: really chill temperament, and it's just like anything. You know,
14:31
Speaker 3: if your baby was struggling to feed, you're going to
14:34
Speaker 3: reach out together lactation consultant or whoever they is. But
14:38
Speaker 3: people hesitate when it's sleep because they feel like they
14:41
Speaker 3: should know how to do it. You know, there are
14:45
Speaker 3: sometimes medical reasons why sleep might not be happening, or
14:50
Speaker 3: there's a bit of a quolocky or our e and
14:53
Speaker 3: t like enos throw us snoring. That's always a bit
14:56
Speaker 3: of a red flag that we want to check out.
14:59
Speaker 3: Usually a sleep consultant can pick that up pretty quickly
15:02
Speaker 3: because if we've given you a plan and we can
15:05
Speaker 3: and see things aren't sort of falling into place or
15:08
Speaker 3: that they be still waking hourly, you know, we then
15:11
Speaker 3: would refer on But to be honest, most of the
15:14
Speaker 3: time when we do have those families come to us,
15:17
Speaker 3: if you can sort of help sleep out, a lot
15:21
Speaker 3: of those symptoms disappear. Yeah, so the quality that you know,
15:25
Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. So definitely there are children, yeah,
15:30
Speaker 3: like they just need that little bit more help. And yes,
15:32
Speaker 3: there are probably like a small portion that, Yeah, it
15:36
Speaker 3: is something going on, but once you resolve that, sleep
15:40
Speaker 3: will come.
15:40
Speaker 1: So that's sort of what I would say to that.
15:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:44
Speaker 2: Do you think a lot of women are kind of
15:45
Speaker 2: missing out on getting support because of the fear of
15:48
Speaker 2: judgment of what people will say about their parenting skills
15:50
Speaker 2: and choices. I feel like that's a big thing in
15:53
Speaker 2: terms of being a parent. A lot of like outside noise.
15:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, true.
15:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know why it's with sleep, like because
15:58
Speaker 3: with anything else, you know, if they're struggling with speaking
16:01
Speaker 3: when you think they.
16:01
Speaker 1: Should be well, not feeding properly, yeah, lady, you.
16:04
Speaker 3: Would employ speak, you know to get that guidance of
16:07
Speaker 3: like what can I do, what can I do to
16:08
Speaker 3: help them and to set them up to succeed. It's
16:11
Speaker 3: just the same.
16:12
Speaker 1: But we do have.
16:13
Speaker 3: Unfortunately that stigma around sleep training. And I think it's
16:18
Speaker 3: also from way back when they cried out we shut
16:22
Speaker 3: the door. He's like they don't see them again, which
16:25
Speaker 3: is just so not the case and from mama, just
16:28
Speaker 3: your heart, you just couldn't. Yeah, sleep training, sleep changes,
16:32
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, Yes, comes such a
16:34
Speaker 3: long way, and we are supporting these babies through the change.
16:39
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that it's easy. And he's upset. I'm
16:43
Speaker 3: so upfront with that, Like there is no such thing
16:46
Speaker 3: as a no cry strategy, yeah you know.
16:50
Speaker 1: And so that being called sleep training, I feel like
16:52
Speaker 1: if it was like sleep support women language, so I
16:55
Speaker 1: couldn't get some supportles sleep, but I don't want to
16:57
Speaker 1: train my baby how to see it sounds too like harsh.
17:01
Speaker 1: I started like routine quite early with Tala, like eight,
17:05
Speaker 1: which I know I'll get some pushback from. And it's
17:08
Speaker 1: not even what you guys advised me to. It was
17:09
Speaker 1: like a bit later you guys advised to start, But
17:12
Speaker 1: it wasn't even like a strict routine. It was just okay,
17:14
Speaker 1: we're gonna start getting ready at five point thirty, doing
17:17
Speaker 1: the bath and the feed and go to bed. And
17:18
Speaker 1: it was just the more routined I was, the more
17:21
Speaker 1: relaxed she was. And I just found it easier and
17:24
Speaker 1: just for me to know what's coming next. And because
17:26
Speaker 1: I had Taj as well, had to work around his
17:28
Speaker 1: school schedule, it was just so much easier for the
17:30
Speaker 1: family dynamic of light. We're doing this at this time,
17:32
Speaker 1: We do this at this time. But I felt like
17:35
Speaker 1: because I started earlier, she slept through earlier, and everything
17:38
Speaker 1: was just easier. And I put it down to starting earlier.
17:41
Speaker 1: What age do you think is appropriate all the best
17:44
Speaker 1: time to start implementing routine?
17:46
Speaker 3: We all a was would say that fourth trimester is
17:49
Speaker 3: just more so that time to just focus on feeding
17:53
Speaker 3: and getting to know your being. And obviously you can
17:56
Speaker 3: do things to help like your sleep environment, awake windows
18:01
Speaker 3: are great. Yes, it's just that rhythm you know of day.
18:05
Speaker 3: So we tend to find more around sort of four
18:08
Speaker 3: months of aig, you're going to get the momentum. Others.
18:11
Speaker 3: When I started with Targe at four months and then
18:13
Speaker 3: I really find four months is a great age, and
18:15
Speaker 3: especially because four months is a big one so than
18:18
Speaker 3: four months regression that it's they're usually coming out of
18:22
Speaker 3: their swaddle, so arms out, they're usually starting to roll.
18:26
Speaker 3: So there's such a lot happening at four months of
18:28
Speaker 3: age where mothers and they're.
18:30
Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, what is that?
18:33
Speaker 3: Four months is are good to start making some gentle changes.
18:36
Speaker 3: And then I tend to find like five months is
18:39
Speaker 3: where things start to like click in and yeah, consistency
18:43
Speaker 3: starts to sort of shine through.
18:44
Speaker 1: Cool, that's good advice. This is going to be very controversial.
18:48
Speaker 3: Bring it in.
18:50
Speaker 1: So the whole sleep regressions and moms don't come at me,
18:53
Speaker 1: but I'd been experience them with my kids, and my
18:56
Speaker 1: friends that have done sleep training don't either. But the
18:59
Speaker 1: ones that haven't done any tend to feel every single one.
19:02
Speaker 1: And there's one at four months, six months, eighteen months,
19:05
Speaker 1: like every month's sick. And I'm like, but I honestly
19:08
Speaker 1: didn't feel any of them.
19:10
Speaker 3: Are they a thing? That's what I'm asking. I've got
19:13
Speaker 3: three boys as well, I didn't see so much babies
19:17
Speaker 3: go through developmental things. Yes, and it can interrupt sleep. Again,
19:21
Speaker 3: it's going to come down a lot to temperament of baby.
19:25
Speaker 3: If they're a little bit more sensitive to change and
19:28
Speaker 3: things like or that they're going to feel it more,
19:31
Speaker 3: which is going to come out, you know, with a
19:34
Speaker 3: bit more crying, unsettledness, that sort of thing. We tend
19:38
Speaker 3: to look for reasons as to why our baby is
19:41
Speaker 3: waking up, and mostly it's teeth a regression, like because
19:47
Speaker 3: that's what we want. We want to know why. Oh well,
19:50
Speaker 3: because I'm a compound a solution or all the six
19:52
Speaker 3: months regression, they've got teeth coming, you know. But a
19:56
Speaker 3: lot of the time, actually it's just more so they
20:00
Speaker 3: might have outgrown their routine be more awake time, or
20:04
Speaker 3: they've about in the settling methods so the rock isn't
20:07
Speaker 3: working anymal, or they're starting to wake up a bit.
20:10
Speaker 3: So I would say there's definitely like the four month
20:14
Speaker 3: progression regression, whichever you want to look at it, that
20:17
Speaker 3: is a thing that's a.
20:18
Speaker 1: Permanent common thing. Hey, I always hear the four month one.
20:21
Speaker 3: It's a permanent shift in their sleep cycles. So they
20:24
Speaker 3: go from newborn sleep to more like adult sleep cycles,
20:28
Speaker 3: so they're waking up more frequently. So that is a
20:30
Speaker 3: big noticeable difference for a lot of families. The other
20:33
Speaker 3: ones I would say coincide with developmental changes. So around
20:38
Speaker 3: six months they're starting solids, they're starting up. Yeah, I
20:42
Speaker 3: think it coincides with the changes changes learning things.
20:47
Speaker 1: I heard around that six months too, when they start
20:49
Speaker 1: talking more, their brains just a bit more like ones
20:51
Speaker 1: like they can be trying to sleep when their brains
20:53
Speaker 1: like when.
20:54
Speaker 3: They're learning things. Definitely, if you're seeing your baby weeks
20:58
Speaker 3: on end waking up like frequently, it's the association. It's
21:04
Speaker 3: like what's happening at bedtime? Or You've got children that
21:09
Speaker 3: can sell settle beautifully, so that is putting themselves to
21:12
Speaker 3: sleep at the start of bedtime or the nap, but
21:14
Speaker 3: they have a like a resettling association, so they're two
21:17
Speaker 3: different skills. You've got babies that can put themselves to
21:21
Speaker 3: sleep beautifully, that's the easier time to do it because
21:24
Speaker 3: sleep pressure is very high, so they can go in.
21:27
Speaker 3: But then as the night goes on that sleep pressure
21:29
Speaker 3: wears off, they're more prone to waking up, and then
21:32
Speaker 3: we can start this pattern of feedback to sleep. Yeah,
21:36
Speaker 3: and then you see that time and time again until
21:38
Speaker 3: morning time.
21:39
Speaker 1: Yes, do you find I had a girlfriend once who
21:41
Speaker 1: didn't do any sleep support, but then once a baby
21:45
Speaker 1: got to like sixteen months, she had a big breakdown
21:47
Speaker 1: and her he just wasn't toddler then wasn't sleeping, so
21:49
Speaker 1: she got someone in then, but she said it was
21:51
Speaker 1: so hard because he was old enough to get in
21:54
Speaker 1: the cot like scream and it was months of work.
21:58
Speaker 1: Ye do you find that with older kids and babies
22:01
Speaker 1: it's a lot harder.
22:02
Speaker 3: I love toddlers. They are other.
22:06
Speaker 1: Are they ever?
22:08
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a little bit more tricky for the parent
22:10
Speaker 3: because exactly they're talking, they're saying your name that you
22:15
Speaker 3: know they've got these allowed to scream yeah, oh, as said,
22:18
Speaker 3: they've got wants and knees and they're gonna let you
22:21
Speaker 3: know those months like loudly. So I would say baby
22:27
Speaker 3: sleep is more about patterns and things like that. Toddler's
22:31
Speaker 3: sleep is more about pushing boundaries. Yeah scrap, And it's
22:37
Speaker 3: very hard for parents to hold boundaries with a toddler consistently.
22:42
Speaker 2: You're down, yeah, so oh you is get on a
22:45
Speaker 2: bad day.
22:46
Speaker 3: Like, toddlers respond so well with boundaries, and we really
22:51
Speaker 3: need to be their leader when we give them that
22:55
Speaker 3: they don't know what to do with it, and everything
22:58
Speaker 3: kind of blows up. So, yes, it's hard to hold
23:03
Speaker 3: boundaries with toddlers, but actually doesn't need to take that
23:06
Speaker 3: long to make changes with toddlers. It's just a bit
23:08
Speaker 3: harder because they're like letting you know and not into
23:13
Speaker 3: what you're doing. Someone sounds like you have to be
23:15
Speaker 3: more phone when they're a toddler as opposter when they're younger,
23:17
Speaker 3: because when they're younger you can if you have little
23:19
Speaker 3: slip ups. They're a baby, they're not responding in the
23:22
Speaker 3: way that a toddler would. But with a toddler, it's
23:24
Speaker 3: like you slip up once and they've got you, and
23:25
Speaker 3: then the next time they're going to push yeah, that
23:27
Speaker 3: boundary and keep trying. And it's like you know, when
23:30
Speaker 3: you're at the park and it's time to go. If
23:32
Speaker 3: you say to that child, oh, it's time to go,
23:34
Speaker 3: and they're like, no, I want to stay here all day,
23:37
Speaker 3: You're not going to do that. You're going to pick
23:39
Speaker 3: them up and put them in the car and they're
23:40
Speaker 3: probably not going to love that. But when we get
23:43
Speaker 3: to sleep, it's the end of the day. Mom's tired.
23:47
Speaker 3: We're just like great, here's the water, here's the like, yeah,
23:51
Speaker 3: fifty books, like you know, come and say good night
23:54
Speaker 3: to the tree. Let's so all about that. Oh my gosh,
23:59
Speaker 3: it's like we do all that because we're just like
24:02
Speaker 3: pathily resistance. I want you to astley And so this
24:05
Speaker 3: is where it unravels. Obviously, the more tired they get,
24:08
Speaker 3: the more like big emotions come out. So yeah, it's
24:13
Speaker 3: toddlers can sleep really well, even though they don't show
24:16
Speaker 3: it initially. They absolutely love boundaries and they need them.
24:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, even as an adult.
24:22
Speaker 2: Like when I logically think of this as an adult
24:23
Speaker 2: and like, I need boundaries, I need sleep, I need structure.
24:26
Speaker 2: When I'm not structured, I feel like an absolute mess,
24:30
Speaker 2: emotionally uttered, more scattered. I don't feel like almost safe
24:33
Speaker 2: in a sense.
24:34
Speaker 3: So I can imagine it's exact same out babies and
24:37
Speaker 3: that predictability that creates that safety. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah,
24:40
Speaker 3: even when they're like and that's their job. Rights are
24:43
Speaker 3: meant to push boundaries and see what happens.
24:47
Speaker 1: That thatttle's an effect.
24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's okay to say no to your toddler
24:53
Speaker 3: when you know that they need to go to sleep,
24:56
Speaker 3: and you know hear them out. I can see you're
24:58
Speaker 3: really upset, my love, but it is actually time for
25:01
Speaker 3: sleep now. And obviously we talk all through that of
25:04
Speaker 3: the what if and what happens when this happens, and yeah,
25:06
Speaker 3: that's that beauty of having that support.
25:09
Speaker 1: And most of them don't know what to do. You
25:11
Speaker 1: don't get a manual.
25:12
Speaker 2: I assume when you have multiple children, like you've got
25:14
Speaker 2: to take care of the household, you would take care
25:15
Speaker 2: of yourself. You've got other children to look after, and
25:18
Speaker 2: then you've got to manage trying to get your child
25:19
Speaker 2: to sleep and then trying not to have a disruptive
25:21
Speaker 2: sleep yourself. It's like, how do you keep everything together
25:24
Speaker 2: when you feel.
25:24
Speaker 1: For your lip? Oh, they've got their full night's sleep.
25:27
Speaker 3: It's just so important.
25:29
Speaker 1: So for any mom's listening, could you talk over what
25:31
Speaker 1: the options are, Like, they can get a house console
25:34
Speaker 1: if they're not local, they can get on Zoom or Skype, yes, and.
25:38
Speaker 3: Web courses worldwide basically well people in New York and yeah,
25:44
Speaker 3: so it's all via what's Apple Skype. We got to
25:47
Speaker 3: do their phone consultation. We have a package which is
25:50
Speaker 3: the phone consultation. You get our sleep guide, which is
25:52
Speaker 3: the comprehensive aims at your age child. Yeah, then you
25:56
Speaker 3: have two weeks of support from us, So they send
26:00
Speaker 3: their sleep logs in we kind of go through it,
26:04
Speaker 3: make suggestions, make tweaks, answer questions, because that's the thing.
26:07
Speaker 3: You can have a plan, but things are going to
26:10
Speaker 3: come up. Yeah, it happens, Yes, you know. And that's
26:12
Speaker 3: really beautiful because we help tweak and troubleshoot and pivot. Yeah, hivot.
26:18
Speaker 2: That's a good I love the way I have. It
26:20
Speaker 2: must be so reassuring as a parent to be able
26:23
Speaker 2: to have that outside support use. I imagine when you're
26:25
Speaker 2: in the thick of it, it'd be hard to see
26:27
Speaker 2: outside of that perspective of like, I'm so exhausted right now,
26:30
Speaker 2: I haven't slept up every ninety minutes throughout the night
26:33
Speaker 2: trying to get my child to sleep.
26:34
Speaker 1: And I feel like thinkings straight when you're that tired,
26:36
Speaker 1: just so justsregulars.
26:37
Speaker 2: The moment you get super tired, just overly emotional, you knowing,
26:40
Speaker 2: and struggling. So to have that dark place, Yeah, and
26:43
Speaker 2: it also really affect your relationship as well.
26:45
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, all the time.
26:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine that you're already both partners are,
26:51
Speaker 1: you know, from work, life stress, financial stress, lack of connection,
26:55
Speaker 1: all the things already and then to top up with
26:57
Speaker 1: emotional overtied baby or toddler.
27:00
Speaker 3: It's just really really tough. And if you are experiencing
27:04
Speaker 3: you know, snail depression of their sail anxiety, which many do, Yeah,
27:09
Speaker 3: the sleep deprivation just amplifies all those feelings so tough,
27:15
Speaker 3: you know, So if you can just help in the
27:18
Speaker 3: smallest way of like getting for our stretch of sleep, like,
27:22
Speaker 3: it's just so helpful, so.
27:24
Speaker 2: Important, and it just be hairline trigger after hairline trigger
27:27
Speaker 2: when you're in state.
27:28
Speaker 1: And because you're a mum as well, I just felt
27:30
Speaker 1: comfortable not unloading, but saying like, oh my gosh, I'm
27:33
Speaker 1: struggling with this, this is what I'm feeling, and you're
27:35
Speaker 1: just so yeah, so reassuring that even through those tougher
27:39
Speaker 1: days when I'm trying to figure it out or tilely
27:40
Speaker 1: is overtired. It was just so nice to have someone
27:42
Speaker 1: to turn to that got it understood and then could
27:44
Speaker 1: provide me with guidance and what to do next. Maybe
27:47
Speaker 1: feel more in control.
27:48
Speaker 3: If you are sort of struggling or just looking for
27:51
Speaker 3: a few little things to implement. One of the big
27:54
Speaker 3: things is wake windows, so they're so easy to follow
27:58
Speaker 3: and it can just get you into starting a bit
28:00
Speaker 3: of a rhythm of like okay, after two hours, we're
28:03
Speaker 3: gonna pop you out down. That can help, and then
28:07
Speaker 3: your energy is very much what we want to look
28:11
Speaker 3: at as well. So if we're up here and your
28:14
Speaker 3: baby's up here, it's not a great mix, and it's
28:18
Speaker 3: hard in the moment, but we just want to kind
28:19
Speaker 3: of take some breaths, go in and just try and
28:22
Speaker 3: share your calm with your baby. And a lot of
28:26
Speaker 3: the time we're doing a hundred things. So if your
28:29
Speaker 3: baby is in that state and they're overtired as working,
28:34
Speaker 3: we just want to choose one thing. Go into a
28:37
Speaker 3: nice dark room, cuddle them, pat them, like whatever you
28:40
Speaker 3: want to do. But just stick with that for you know,
28:43
Speaker 3: a good amount of time because they will go to sleep.
28:45
Speaker 3: But when we're constantly changing, it's very overstimulating for sure,
28:51
Speaker 3: and we just keep going up and up and up.
28:53
Speaker 3: So it's like reset, have a few deep breaths, yeah,
28:58
Speaker 3: and then just like stick with it. They will settle
29:00
Speaker 3: and go to sleep. But we've just got to try
29:02
Speaker 3: and keep that dead. Yeah, to close it off, I
29:06
Speaker 3: would love your top three tips. I'm guessing that's one
29:08
Speaker 3: of them at Wait Windows. What would be two other things?
29:10
Speaker 1: At Wesley Snows I.
29:12
Speaker 3: Would say a wine down routine, Yeah, sout, so like
29:15
Speaker 3: you're little, what happens before you put them down for
29:19
Speaker 3: an apple?
29:19
Speaker 1: Bedtime bottle, sleepsack white.
29:23
Speaker 3: Yep, that's the start of that pattern of life. Usually
29:26
Speaker 3: it's coming. It's coming, So that's really good. And then yeah,
29:30
Speaker 3: I would say, as much as we harp on about it, consistency,
29:34
Speaker 3: So don't try something once and be like it didn't
29:39
Speaker 3: works because it takes time. It takes time for your
29:43
Speaker 3: baby to become comfortable and familiar with a different way,
29:49
Speaker 3: and so it doesn't make it wrong when they're upset
29:51
Speaker 3: about it. Yeah, just means we're supporting and reassuring them
29:56
Speaker 3: through their big emotions to get to that end goal
29:59
Speaker 3: where it's more sustainable, everyone's sleeping better. Yeah, there's just
30:04
Speaker 3: that little grape here.
30:05
Speaker 1: I remember Christie saying too, it was like sleep eat play,
30:09
Speaker 1: whereas I used to do feed to sleep. Then she
30:14
Speaker 1: becomes reliant on so it's like, yeah, sleep feed straight
30:17
Speaker 1: away and then play. That helps with sleep pressure.
30:20
Speaker 3: So sleep pressure is what happens when baby wakes up
30:24
Speaker 3: to the next nap, building sleep pressure to go to
30:27
Speaker 3: sleepy yap. So this is what we do. We wake up,
30:30
Speaker 3: we are awake all day if we don't have a
30:32
Speaker 3: little sneaky nap, and then we go down for a
30:34
Speaker 3: bedtime and our sleep pressure is high, you know. So
30:38
Speaker 3: often babies will find the opportunities in their awake window,
30:42
Speaker 3: so that two hours that they might be awake if
30:44
Speaker 3: they're constantly feeding, or they're feeding right before nap time.
30:49
Speaker 3: What happens is you're zapping that sleep pressure, so they're
30:53
Speaker 3: essentially getting a bit of a second wind or a
30:56
Speaker 3: little reboot time to go for a proper nap. So
30:59
Speaker 3: then we're like, sweep, it's been two hours. I've just
31:01
Speaker 3: given you a nice sleepy cuddle. And then we go
31:04
Speaker 3: to put them into the cot and they're like either
31:06
Speaker 3: screaming at you or like, hey, mum, that's what's going on.
31:09
Speaker 1: I've rested and I'm good.
31:10
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a full sense of security because
31:12
Speaker 3: they feel like they've had a rest.
31:15
Speaker 1: Went back today. We've plug the battery and they've reached
31:18
Speaker 1: out with it. God from red to green and they're
31:20
Speaker 1: ready to go again.
31:21
Speaker 3: So then you get into this battle and you're trying
31:23
Speaker 3: to get it to sleep. They're not tired, they're screaming
31:26
Speaker 3: at you. So that is all what we look at,
31:29
Speaker 3: and really it's just about setting that baby up to
31:32
Speaker 3: succeed at nap time or bedtime. Is a minimal amount
31:36
Speaker 3: of upset as possible? So good.
31:38
Speaker 2: Something that you touched on before about consistency, when you said,
31:40
Speaker 2: you know, don't try something just once and then leave
31:42
Speaker 2: it is there. I know this is obviously different based
31:45
Speaker 2: on the baby in all of the very walls, but
31:47
Speaker 2: is there like a minimum or a rough for somebody
31:50
Speaker 2: who is the kind of stop and start trialing new things.
31:52
Speaker 2: How long would you say to.
31:53
Speaker 3: Like, Yeah, it depends on how you're going to make
31:58
Speaker 3: the change. So if we're going to start in the
32:00
Speaker 3: room and really like if they're feeding to sleep, are
32:03
Speaker 3: we then going to start holding and putting? So there's
32:06
Speaker 3: lots of different factors that go into it, but typically
32:10
Speaker 3: within a week, Yeah, you would want to see massive
32:12
Speaker 3: change and less resistance, less upset as well, and more
32:17
Speaker 3: like okay this is okay than healing asleep. They're sleeping
32:21
Speaker 3: for longer stretches that sort of they're taking to it. Yeah, yeah, beautiful, awesome, You've.
32:26
Speaker 1: Given so much information. Thank you so so much.
32:29
Speaker 3: Incredible.
32:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we know, like, yeah don't we all a
32:33
Speaker 1: big percentage of our audience is mums. To really hope
32:35
Speaker 1: anyone listening this is really helpful for you. But if
32:37
Speaker 1: anyone wants to reach out and just ask your question,
32:40
Speaker 1: inquire about a consultation, or you're desperate to get some
32:44
Speaker 1: help with your baby's sleep, because you are, you're that
32:46
Speaker 1: mum listening going I'm at my wits end. Yeah, someone
32:48
Speaker 1: helped me. Where do they find you?
32:50
Speaker 3: We are at the sleep Teacher on Instagram so always
32:54
Speaker 3: in the DM so absolutely do that. They can email
32:57
Speaker 3: me at beckbeck at the sleep Teacher dot com dot
33:01
Speaker 3: au and yeah, I'm open book of like, come and
33:05
Speaker 3: talk to me and I will absolutely. I'm here for
33:08
Speaker 3: the mums as well, absolutely for the babies. But I'm like,
33:12
Speaker 3: let's go, mum, let's get that sleep and get you
33:15
Speaker 3: mothering how you always envisioned, because suitiful, it can be rough.
33:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, really appreciate your time and
33:22
Speaker 1: we will leave bex details all the show notes below us.
33:25
Speaker 1: If you want to reach out then definitely do so,
33:27
Speaker 1: and thanks for joining us.
33:28
Speaker 3: Anytime, Thank you for having me, good Bye, guys. Hi