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Ep254 – Are Resentments Holding You Back? · Untoxicated Podcast

0:01
Welcome to the intoxicated
0:03
podcast.
0:05
Well, I'm Sherry S, and that was my
0:07
husband Matt. We have questions about the impact
0:10
of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If you
0:13
have those kinds of questions to you're in
0:15
the right place, Here we go.
0:20
I was thinking about something the other day,
0:21
Sherry.
0:22
We have had a lot of summer events
0:25
it being middle of the summer now
0:28
without alcohol, either,
0:31
we were the only ones not consuming or
0:33
just an event that was alcohol free.
0:36
And,
0:37
like, I I feel like this is the
0:40
first summer
0:41
where I don't miss it. Like, I can
0:43
do in a whole event and not even
0:45
notice that there's no alcohol or not even
0:47
notice
0:48
that other people are drinking and I'm not.
0:50
Like, it's not even a thing anymore
0:53
but it feels pretty cool. Have you noticed
0:54
that at all? I have. Well,
0:57
I thought this was pretty cool. We did
0:59
host a party.
1:02
And it was at our house, just a
1:04
little backyard kind of barbecue gathering.
1:06
And 1 of the people
1:09
brought over, like, a travel water bottle, you
1:12
know, like a insulated water bottle.
1:14
And they said, oh, I put a little
1:17
wine in here You gonna be upset if
1:18
I drink wine and I was like, no.
1:21
And then
1:22
I noticed it was sitting in or inside
1:24
the house, like the whole time. And I
1:27
asked them. I said did you
1:29
did you want a different container for it
1:31
after I realized it I, like, no. I'm
1:32
just not even interested in drinking. So I
1:35
think because our whole environment was alcohol free
1:37
and were still having a good time,
1:39
even though there were people there that would
1:41
drink if drinks were available. Yeah. I think
1:44
they felt comfortable
1:45
not drinking. I've never understood those people that
1:47
can take it or leave it. I... Yeah.
1:49
And I brought 1 in a thermos.
1:52
It would have been gone in the dry.
1:53
Way. That's right.
1:55
But so that part just for that person's
1:57
sake was pretty cool. Yeah. But I noticed
1:59
that too.
2:01
And and. We had a good time that
2:02
night. And we stayed we had a great
2:04
time. Yeah. We've we have hosted a couple
2:06
of events. We had a daughter who graduated
2:09
college, so that's 1 of the
2:11
reasons that we've hosted a couple of events
2:14
where there's no alcohol and it really wasn't
2:17
missed it. It's only like in hindsight that
2:18
I'm like, oh,
2:20
Like, well, for for instance, 1 of those
2:22
college
2:23
graduation kind of events
2:25
was at her college. The day graduation and.
2:29
So there were probably... I don't know throughout
2:31
the day. Open house style 30 or so
2:34
college graduates that came over, and no 1
2:36
said, you know, where's the beer cooler
2:38
Where's the wine? Yeah. Nobody even seem to
2:41
care. Yeah actually really jealous of college age
2:44
kids. But it's because they don't seem to
2:46
care.
2:47
About alcohol the way, our
2:49
age, us jen ers. Mh cared about it
2:53
at that you know, stage. And I don't
2:56
honestly think that they just... I mean, it's
2:58
entirely possible that our daughter told them a
3:00
little bit about our situation, and they were
3:03
like, oh, you know, this is Katherine the
3:05
1 with a drunk dad, so we can't
3:07
drink around him, but it didn't seem that
3:09
way. It didn't seem like it. It didn't
3:10
seem like they were hurrying away, like, oh,
3:12
Right. This the so party. Let's let's high...
3:15
Tail it to the the 1 where we
3:17
can get get our drink on. Yeah. That's
3:18
definitely how would have been in our day.
3:20
Yeah. Because I think like, we kind of
3:22
wrapped it up around, like, 7 or something,
3:24
7PM. We kind of... That's what she said.
3:27
Because there were other people in town. And
3:29
people that were a little bit more local
3:31
or whatever that we're hosting. And so like
3:33
you said, it was open house coming and
3:35
going. But... Yeah. I didn't feel like people
3:37
that came even early were hurrying to get
3:39
away. Yeah.
3:42
I sure wish they would have eaten a
3:43
lot more though.
3:45
You made a heck of a spread.
3:47
Anyone who ever gets invited to something where
3:50
you're preparing the food, they should come with
3:52
an empty stomach. That's all I'm saying. Because
3:54
it is going or May.
3:57
We're also speaking of Gourmet We went camping.
3:59
Mh. And no,
4:01
you know... There was shortage of food there.
4:03
There. Yeah. But, you know, that's the kind
4:06
thing that, like, in early... And when I
4:08
say early sobriety, I mean, the first few
4:09
years,
4:11
certainly, maybe by the third year of sobriety,
4:14
I wouldn't have been, like,
4:15
dealing with temptation to drink on a camping
4:17
trip, but I would still think about it.
4:19
Probably several times during the day. Like, you're
4:21
sitting by the campfire fire, and
4:23
man, wish I had something to drink right
4:25
now. Mh. I don't do that anymore, but,
4:27
boy, I kinda miss it.
4:29
And just
4:31
just so interesting to me how the brain
4:33
works how that
4:34
subconscious portion of the brain and the part
4:37
that where the triggers come from, Right, the
4:40
part where, oh, here is an event
4:43
that I've done many times in the past,
4:45
and every time I did in the past,
4:47
there was alcohol involved so where's the alcohol?
4:50
Like, you know, for people who are in
4:52
new sobriety
4:54
grilling out for in instance. I know I
4:56
basically had to stop grilling for a while.
4:58
It was so triggering. Mh. And
5:01
then I slowly got back into grilling, and,
5:05
you know, still kind of
5:07
thought about alcohol while I was grilling and
5:08
now it's to the point where it just
5:10
doesn't even enter my mind and that's such
5:11
a blessing.
5:12
But it's a
5:14
it's a kind of,
5:16
not a warning.
5:18
It's an example of how long
5:21
recovery takes
5:23
you know, not to get over the hump
5:25
of, oh my god, I might
5:27
I might be forced to drink because the
5:30
craving is so strong. I mean, that know,
5:32
maybe that's a year or so.
5:34
But the lingering thoughts go on for years
5:37
and years until you're sitting there at year
5:39
3 or your 4 thinking... Oh my god.
5:41
If I'm still thinking about alcohol. I'm just
5:43
gonna think about it for the rest of
5:44
my life. But that's not true.
5:46
Just give it that a little more time.
5:48
I'm 7 and a half years sober.
5:52
And sometime in the last year or 2,
5:55
it, like, the desire, any kind of thought
5:58
about alcohol has pretty much gone away.
6:01
I mean, I... Let me be clear about
6:03
this. I can in a conscious state. I
6:05
can say listen. What would it be like
6:07
to drink
6:08
whiskey on ice.
6:10
From now until
6:12
midnight tonight,
6:13
you know? And I can think oh, that
6:15
would feel really good.
6:17
I don't mean to make it sound like,
6:19
like I'm cured or something because I'm not.
6:21
I can still think about
6:24
drinking alcohol on a Saturday afternoon gonna beer
6:26
on a Saturday afternoon in the sun and
6:28
just,
6:29
you know,
6:31
laying back in the adi chair and soaking
6:33
up the sun and drinking a 12 pack
6:35
of beer, and that still sounds better than
6:37
most things I can think of.
6:40
But it... I'm not just trigger to think
6:43
about that
6:44
without sitting down on a conscious level and
6:47
concentrating on it. I can do pretty much
6:49
anything there is do
6:51
without alcohol ever entering my mind.
6:54
Yeah. And that's a pretty big blessing.
6:56
Those parties camping,
6:59
we had retreats
7:00
with our of recovery group and with our
7:03
marriage evolution group.
7:04
In the recent past,
7:06
whether they're just day treats where
7:09
we see folks for just during the daylight
7:11
hours or but the longer sleep over retreats
7:14
that last long weekend,
7:16
and
7:17
it's not there. I don't think about it.
7:19
I go the entire event out thinking about
7:21
it once. And I have to consciously think
7:23
back on it. And they're fun. There's no
7:25
shortage of fun, do you think?
7:27
For lack of alcohol? Yeah. Absolutely. No shortage
7:29
of fun. Fourth of July, we went to
7:31
a parade and then we went to fireworks.
7:34
Again, just never never came up.
7:37
We've been to a couple of small concerts.
7:40
Where
7:42
I can't even remember necessarily if people were
7:44
drinking,
7:45
but I know
7:47
we weren't. Beer garden. Yeah, or there were,
7:49
you know, like, tents. So I'm sure they're
7:51
were, but we just weren't really paying attention
7:53
because we were enjoying the company them music.
7:56
And sporting events, major league baseball game and
8:00
college soccer and,
8:02
yeah. I know they're beer served it both
8:04
of those, but
8:05
That's the thing.
8:07
In sobriety, I used to... Even when I
8:09
didn't... Like I said, feel cravings for drink
8:11
to drink and I knew I was gonna
8:13
make it through the event without and I
8:14
wasn't
8:15
worried.
8:16
You know, that, oh, is this gonna be
8:18
too much. Like I was over that hump,
8:20
but I still would notice people drinking. I
8:22
would look around and see who was drinking
8:24
and who wasn't. Mh. And that's all gone.
8:27
What a blessing. And 1 of the things
8:29
that makes it easier.
8:31
1 of the highlights of the summer beverage
8:33
wise has been that alcohol free, Sang,
8:36
recipe that you worked out. Oh, yeah. That's
8:39
good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. They turned out pretty
8:42
much.
8:45
I used... I made, like, hi tea. It's
8:48
a tart
8:49
flower,
8:50
that's kind of Indian and mediterranean.
8:53
And I made a, like, a concentrate, and
8:55
then
8:56
use some stone fruits
8:59
chopped up,
9:00
and I may... So like trauma?
9:03
Why use plum and cherries and
9:07
nectar,
9:08
I think,
9:09
Yeah. Yeah. And then
9:11
you know, because that goes in the bottom
9:13
of Ingredient, and then Pomegranate at juice, and
9:15
then you could serve it on ice if
9:17
you wanted it, like, to kinda strong Or
9:19
and lots of that own fruit was just
9:21
floating in the pitcher. So... Yeah. I mean,
9:23
it weighs at the bottom, but it adds
9:24
a lot, and then there's, like, you put
9:26
little touch of, like, honey and water and
9:29
lemon zest, but it was really
9:31
really easy and, like, we added some sparkling
9:35
water to it
9:37
to kind of lighten it up because, I
9:39
mean, I liked San when we drank out
9:42
when we drank out alcohol, but that was
9:43
a, like,
9:45
a small portion because it's so much sugar
9:47
from the fruit.
9:49
That it just, you know, hangover over hell.
9:51
And got it. Yeah. I loved it, and
9:53
it wasn't that, like, it felt like a
9:56
replacement for alcohol, but there was a lot
9:59
going on, and it was, you know, it
10:01
was... You know, I drink a lot of
10:02
soda water, sometimes soda water would lime.
10:05
So it was weighed different than that. It
10:06
was
10:08
there was a lot going on, and it
10:10
tasted special. It was delicious. Yeah. Well, done,
10:12
Sherry. Thanks.
10:15
Let's remind folks
10:17
that
10:18
later this week,
10:20
this is our last podcast for July.
10:23
That's being released. And on August first,
10:26
we're having a q and A session, information
10:29
in q and session about our echoes of
10:32
recovery program, our shout sobriety program,
10:35
and our marriage evolution program.
10:37
So if you have been on the fence
10:39
if you've been listening to the podcast for
10:40
a while and you thought, man,
10:43
maybe maybe that's my tribe. Maybe it's not...
10:45
I don't know.
10:47
I don't know if I wanna go through
10:48
the hassle of enrolling and and figuring out
10:51
how to join this group.
10:53
If if you wanna take, like, a baby
10:56
step with no commitment necessary, you can join
10:59
us for an information and question and answer
11:01
session that we held on August first at
11:05
06:30PM
11:06
in the Mountain Time zone.
11:08
And to get the Zoom link and attend
11:11
that session. All you have to do is
11:12
send an email to matt at
11:15
sober and una ashamed dot com.
11:18
And
11:19
you can show up with an alias, and
11:22
you can show up without turning your camera
11:24
or your microphone on and just sit in
11:26
the weeds and listen. So this is as
11:28
low
11:29
you know, the the low risk as lower
11:32
bar
11:34
of,
11:35
you know, stepping outside your comfort zone has
11:37
I think we can possibly make it. We'll
11:39
have some folks from our different groups that'll
11:42
be attending and talking about their experience a
11:44
little bit, and then we'll be take will...
11:46
And Sherry and I okay share some information
11:48
about the groups, and then we'll be taking
11:50
questions. The whole thing will go for about
11:52
an hour,
11:53
and you
11:55
are invited to attend. If you are even
11:57
remotely interested
11:59
in any of our groups. So just send
12:01
that email, and we'll get you all set
12:03
up o, last thing I'll say is, we
12:04
aren't gonna save those emails for repurposing. You
12:07
won't get marketing from those emails later. You
12:09
won't get... Hey. What'd you think of the
12:11
Q and A? Are you gonna join us?
12:13
Nothing like that. We'll just send the link
12:15
and be out of your way.
12:18
So lots of people have already expressed interest.
12:20
We'd love to have more.
12:23
Our resentment holding you back. That's our topic
12:26
for today.
12:27
Sherry,
12:29
you
12:31
were recently
12:32
at a meeting at the church where you
12:34
are the children's minister,
12:36
it was, like a committee meeting,
12:38
and you were shu
12:40
when you
12:41
made a point about something.
12:43
I wanna say recently, this was a few
12:45
months ago. A few months ago. And what's
12:46
interesting is you're still upset about it. Because
12:49
you just mentioned it last night. Yeah. So...
12:52
Because I had a meeting yesterday, and it
12:54
reminded me. Oh,
12:55
so we I got just at. That was
12:58
the meeting. I was just at Well, I
12:59
will not say shit.
13:02
Actually, it said some stuff, but I definitely
13:05
did not enter checked or expand on
13:09
action items. Well, when you were telling me
13:11
about the meeting and you were made reference
13:14
to the fact that you had been shu,
13:16
and I knew that the s
13:18
was a couple of months ago, I said
13:20
to myself. Well, that's
13:22
that's a resentment that's wedged itself in there
13:24
pretty good. And now, you are well known
13:28
far and wide for
13:30
someone has crossed you holding grudges.
13:33
But this is someone. The person who shu
13:34
you is someone that you really care about
13:36
and really like, and
13:38
you are mutually helpful to each other in
13:41
many ways.
13:43
So it's kinda like a marriage. You're kinda
13:45
like marriage this. Like, it was shocking. I
13:47
know. That I was, like, so,
13:50
like, dismissed. But the point is this isn't
13:53
the kind of person that you can just,
13:54
you know,
13:56
wipe your hands clean and say you're dead
13:57
to me. Right.
13:59
So someone that you like can care about
14:01
it and and I would say love. I...
14:02
I you have a very close relationship with
14:04
this person.
14:05
This person
14:07
wounded you, and you are still upset about
14:10
it. Boy, does that sound like an alcoholic
14:12
marriage?
14:13
So you're holding on to a resentment. Now,
14:16
I don't wanna paint that picture as though
14:19
you're the only bad guy out there. I
14:21
too. Am I'm holding resentment. I don't know.
14:23
I I thought about it a little bit.
14:25
I don't know. I know you know about
14:26
these situations, but I don't know if you
14:28
know how much I still think about them.
14:30
I am a high school soccer coach.
14:32
And I have been passed up for jobs
14:34
in the past. Now there's 2 ways that
14:37
I've been passed up. I've been passed up
14:39
for jobs where I have no connections I've
14:41
sent in my resume, have expressed interest and
14:44
been passed up.
14:45
That, for whatever reason doesn't bother me at
14:48
all. This is a very cut throat business.
14:51
There are way more people who want to
14:53
coach High school soccer than there are high
14:55
school soccer coaching positions for.
14:57
Yeah. That doesn't bother me. The ones that
15:00
bother me are the people who I I've
15:02
developed relationships with and they still pass me
15:05
up. And there are a couple
15:07
that I can think of in particular
15:09
that I think about
15:11
when I'm win a state title someday.
15:14
I know that's optimistic to say. But we
15:16
say, talk your way into the success you
15:19
want, You know? So I I play into
15:20
1 day when a state title. And when
15:22
I win that title. I I'm not kidding
15:24
when I say, I know what my first
15:26
2 phone calls will I will call those
15:28
2 people and say gosh. I really would
15:30
have liked to do that at your school,
15:31
but too bad. You didn't have a confidence
15:33
in me to to hire me so instead
15:36
or something like that.
15:40
Yeah.
15:41
So I hold resentment too. Now do I
15:43
really think I'd make those phone
15:44
Think so. That seems like sour grapes. That
15:46
seems like the kind of thing you don't
15:48
do. You take the higher of that situation,
15:49
hope, but I will want to. I will
15:51
want to so bad. I wanna rub it
15:53
in.
15:55
So I've got my own set of resentment
15:57
now. 1 thing that we've learned
15:59
through our own
16:01
resentment processing
16:02
through our own alcoholic marriage and through working
16:04
with other people
16:06
is that acknowledgment is more important than the
16:09
apology.
16:10
Right? That was the case
16:13
as far as how you felt about me.
16:15
All the things that I did as an
16:17
active drinker
16:18
to cause trauma and chaos in a relationship.
16:23
And then, you know, I was half blacked
16:25
out half the time anyway.
16:27
And so
16:28
you weren't necessarily looking for an apology. You
16:30
were looking for me to acknowledge that your
16:33
experience was valid?
16:35
Correct. Yeah.
16:37
Yes. Correct. So when when... We... Because let's
16:40
just just just
16:42
add this
16:44
we get apologize to
16:46
all the freaking time. What do you? Why
16:49
that, like, the sober partner from the partner
16:52
with the addiction. Sorry I'm gonna do better.
16:55
Sorry I'm gonna keep it under control. Sorry
16:56
I that
16:58
sorry Sorry.
16:59
Are. Sorry. So you're sa
17:02
are so worthless
17:05
at the point where you are discussing the
17:07
resentment. That that's 1 reason I didn't wanna
17:09
sorry. I go further than that. I don't
17:11
just think they're worthless.
17:13
When I apologized, and then I repeated the
17:15
same
17:16
terrible behavior.
17:18
It was it was worse than worthless. It
17:22
was painful
17:23
that
17:24
I would say I'm sorry. And then do
17:27
the thing I just apologize for. It was...
17:29
Right? I mean, you've told you I it's
17:30
almost like... Well, I don't I seen... How
17:32
stupid are you. But I don't know if
17:33
I would like... I don't know if that
17:35
point I would call it painful because I
17:36
had already been burned too much to really
17:38
believe your apologies. So I had already been
17:40
like, ugh, Okay. That's nothing word. So if
17:42
until maybe in the beginning when there were
17:44
Sa and then you did it again then
17:46
I was pain and hurt by it. But
17:48
by the point
17:49
in which we are speaking about it's worthless.
17:52
Yeah. Human might as well in saying Gobble
17:54
gu because that's the same amount of credibility
17:57
I give to your apologies
18:00
because I had already became resent and closed
18:03
off and attached that that's why I can
18:05
say those were kinda worthless
18:08
and pointless.
18:09
And let's pick painful for a while. The
18:12
the the alcoholic who apologize as we go
18:15
along. So my pattern would be,
18:19
drink too much,
18:21
same things,
18:23
have a erratic behavior, have mood swings,
18:26
say yes, we'll leave the party at 10PM
18:28
and then stay till 2AM. Whatever it is,
18:30
These things.
18:32
Do that.
18:33
Blame you for it. It's your fault. Why
18:35
can't you loosen up? Why aren't you more
18:37
fun? Why aren't you drinking with me? What's
18:39
the matter with you?
18:42
And then the next day,
18:44
maybe that's when, like,
18:46
I'm trying to process it all, the resentment
18:48
or the... Not the resentment the the regret
18:51
starts to sink in. And then I spend
18:53
maybe a day or 2 apologizing.
18:56
And then we spend some period of time
18:57
time often weeks
18:59
where we're just going along normal,
19:02
and then I overdo it again and the
19:03
cycle starts again. Right? Yeah.
19:06
I think it's important to acknowledge that that's
19:09
the most common
19:10
experience, but there are people out there for
19:13
whatever reason
19:14
that their cycle does not include the apologizing
19:17
park.
19:18
So
19:19
a lot of the same behaviors we talked
19:21
about, but when it comes to that day
19:23
or when I'm fully of regret shame
19:26
and just embarrassment,
19:28
where I am apologizing to you. They just
19:30
kinda go quiet and don't apologize. Guys. And
19:33
so there are some loved ones of alcoholic
19:35
because there are some spouses of alcoholic that
19:37
have never been never received an apology. Never
19:40
been apologized too. Yeah. And so for them,
19:42
part of the resentment processing is the apology.
19:45
But the idea that the amend process in
19:48
the 12 step
19:49
waits to slate clean and takes care of,
19:51
but that's just not the case.
19:53
Because a men's is media alcoholic
19:56
telling you the victim of my alcoholism as
19:58
Gary, Here are the things I did bad,
20:01
and I'm sorry. And I want you to
20:02
know. I'm sorry. And how can I make
20:03
it up to you?
20:05
And that's just not gonna hit home for
20:06
you?
20:07
Yeah. Because because I don't get a chance
20:09
to other than... I mean, the question that
20:11
you've posed me is how can I make
20:13
this up to or whatever? You know, just
20:15
doesn't seem as
20:16
as thought. Full for the
20:19
person that you've wrong to be able to
20:21
speak their peace of mind. And maybe it
20:23
is... Maybe that's the answer to what can
20:25
Make this up to you? Well, you can
20:26
sit in that chair in and you can
20:27
sit there for a good long time
20:29
That's right.
20:30
Well I tell you how my experience was.
20:33
Right? Yeah.
20:34
But so that's the the typical
20:37
resentment processing. It's not an apology. It's not
20:39
an men's. It's an acknowledgement
20:42
by the anchor that your experience Sherry, the
20:44
loved 1 is valid and true and painful
20:48
and that
20:51
you know, that that I... That my drinking.
20:53
We're big on blaming the alcohol, blaming the
20:56
alcohol ism
20:57
that my drinking
20:58
was what caused that experience. Yeah. And sometimes,
21:02
there would be conversations, and I know that
21:04
we've said this on the podcast, but I
21:06
wanna reiterate
21:07
because we also say it in our groups
21:09
many times. There were some
21:12
situations that I had to kind of walk
21:15
through and talk through with you
21:17
several times, because maybe I did feel like
21:19
I got it all out or maybe I
21:20
missed an important piece or, maybe after kind
21:22
of like,
21:24
you know, it's like an onion. Like, after
21:25
I peeled off the first layer,
21:27
maybe there was some second layer that I
21:29
was, like, kinda hit, but then I was
21:30
like, oh, but this is really what I
21:33
was, like, Yeah. This is the core burn.
21:35
Like I thought about.
21:37
You know? And now it's like, that was
21:38
the core, and that was the maybe the
21:40
core or the the thing I really want
21:42
you to understand about that particular situation.
21:45
This is it. I'm also, like, a little
21:47
bit of a verbal processor. So it takes
21:49
a while for a me to
21:51
kinda... I have to loop back things sometimes.
21:54
So you kinda had to endure that a
21:56
couple of times of
21:58
hearing the same kind of scenario over an
22:00
over. And also, I was looking for your
22:01
reaction? Because I thought, shit... How many times
22:03
have you told me the same shit over
22:05
and over.
22:06
You know? It's just fair.
22:09
For me to get it off of my
22:10
chest, and I wanted to see your reaction.
22:12
So that's where I think the men's process
22:16
is a little short sighted versus the resentment
22:19
processing
22:20
if you have that opportunity to do it,
22:23
you know, to the partner. Yeah.
22:25
Because I really needed to see
22:28
your reaction,
22:29
and I really needed to feel
22:31
that you are really
22:34
engaged with what I was saying.
22:36
Yeah.
22:37
Because I think the amend process too. There's
22:38
a lot of you write it out. So
22:40
you're just reading what you wrote. Or they're
22:42
reading what you wrote, and I think that
22:46
voice inflection really adds a lot
22:48
of energy to the
22:50
conversation. Yeah.
22:52
So that's what resentment processing looks like when
22:54
you have a partner that's receptive to do
22:56
the resentment processing with you. Which is not
22:59
always the case in absolutely. It's not the
23:01
case.
23:02
I lot somewhere around 50 percent of the
23:05
time.
23:06
Maybe the majority of the time you don't
23:07
have the partner to resentment process with either
23:09
because you've parted company from that person or
23:12
because they just can't do it.
23:14
There are a lot of people out there
23:15
that can't sit and listen
23:17
to the
23:19
experience
23:20
without re them. Yeah. And a lot of
23:22
them say,
23:24
you know, and I used to say this.
23:25
Why? Do we have to go through that
23:27
again. Why do you have to drag up
23:28
the past? Like, hey, I'm sober now we're
23:31
trying to move forward,
23:32
what is wrong with you? Well, I'm here
23:34
to tell you
23:36
until that resentment is processed. 1 way or
23:38
the other. It is not going lingering.
23:41
Lingering and lingering is lingering...
23:42
Participate in that or not.
23:45
Well, and I think
23:46
that that's where
23:48
when they say the work of recovery. You
23:50
know, it may not happen.
23:53
I mean, more than likely, it's not gonna
23:54
happen that first year.
23:56
It may not happen in that first 18
23:58
months or 2 years because the person that
24:00
you are gonna be, you know, the attic
24:02
that you're gonna be talking to has to
24:04
have a really
24:06
well
24:07
adjusted ego and there has to be humility,
24:11
and there has to be
24:13
you know, a lot less shame and self
24:16
confidence to be able to take that words.
24:18
Also, that's why I think with
24:21
Mitchell and Anna from we are recovery that
24:22
really
24:24
really like that like having that third party
24:27
entity who's the attic. The blame. To blame
24:29
the alcohol and blame the attic, and then
24:32
you're kind of like, launching it off to
24:34
this other thing that is no longer existed
24:36
because I used to think like, oh, that's
24:38
junk mat.
24:39
This is normal map. You know. But then
24:42
after a while, of years and years of
24:44
drinking that drunk behavior even it gets sprinkled
24:47
into
24:48
the not drunk or the normal or the
24:50
sober mat. Mh. You know? So then it's
24:52
this line that's getting crossed and blurred. Mh.
24:56
Because of the behaviors, the alcoholic behaviors during,
24:59
you know, days of sobriety. Yeah. It's still
25:01
there. So
25:03
what do you explain for that? So that
25:04
was a good way for me to be,
25:05
like, oh,
25:07
so just when it's it's not just the
25:09
alcohol, but it's the attic that lives inside
25:11
him. Mh.
25:13
Yeah. Because point. But this... So this is
25:16
all stuff that you can do resentment processing
25:18
wise
25:19
when you have access to
25:21
the person to do the resentment processing with.
25:24
What about when you don't?
25:26
What about those cases like we said,
25:29
maybe the majority? I don't know.
25:31
Where you can't process with the alcoholic for
25:34
1 reason or another.
25:37
What does
25:38
resentment processing look like then
25:41
without the other person.
25:43
Let's think about... Let's go back to our
25:45
our cases of the resentment that you and
25:47
I are currently holding. Because I would argue
25:50
that these are all resentment that we are
25:52
not going to ever be able to to
25:54
process with that person, even though you're very
25:56
close with 1 of them,
25:57
that'd be a tough to bring up and
25:59
say, hey. Do you remember this meeting, this
26:01
is what you did to me.
26:02
So
26:04
so thinking about my case first where Passed
26:06
over for high school soccer coaching jobs.
26:12
I I thought a lot about this today.
26:14
I think that it helps me to move
26:17
past this resentment. When I think about what
26:19
was the person afraid of
26:22
that caused them to make the decision not
26:24
to hire me for the specific position.
26:27
What were they afraid of? And you so
26:30
I... Like I said, there's 2 specific cases
26:32
in my head.
26:33
1 of them,
26:34
I really feel confident
26:36
that
26:37
I didn't get hired for that job
26:40
because...
26:42
Because the other person going for that job
26:45
was
26:47
demographic more attractive.
26:49
I am
26:51
I think most people know a white
26:54
heterosexual male.
26:55
And
26:57
this was
26:59
coaching job where the the players
27:02
were almost entirely hispanic.
27:05
And the other coach that was in the
27:07
running was his Hispanic as well,
27:09
and also female.
27:11
And
27:14
I had
27:15
way more experience than the other person did.
27:18
But,
27:19
again,
27:21
they had some
27:22
intangible
27:23
or intangible.
27:25
I guess I have the intangible. They have
27:27
the tangible. Whatever.
27:29
And this is an environment.
27:31
This is an environment where I think that
27:33
principle
27:34
had they gone with me? That principal would
27:37
have gotten a ton of heat.
27:39
Why did you pass over
27:41
this person that
27:44
looks like our students and fits the demographic
27:46
of the school
27:47
in favor of this white guy.
27:51
And I know that's a controversial thing to
27:52
say, but it happens. It happens a lot
27:56
around here.
27:57
And I guess,
27:58
I'm... I'm... I don't know if you could
28:00
tell. I'm, like, trying to choose my words
28:01
wisely, and I'm hesitating.
28:03
So I am a little uncomfortable talking about
28:05
this. But I think it's reality, and you
28:08
can make the argument. Oh Matt, you know,
28:10
you just didn't interview as well. And this
28:12
person deserved it more. Okay. Fine. That's all
28:15
entirely possible. But for me to process the
28:17
resentment because I know I'm a better coach
28:20
than that person is, and I know I've
28:21
got a ton more experience than that person
28:23
does
28:25
for me, from my perspective, this isn't for,
28:27
you know, for me to engage with the
28:29
principal who made the decision. This is just
28:31
for me to let it go.
28:33
It helps me to say that person was
28:35
in a bind.
28:37
That principal made that decision
28:39
because
28:41
the other
28:42
option was a safer hire. Given the environment
28:45
that we're in,
28:46
given the place we live and the
28:49
political sentiment here and just all the pieces
28:51
of the puzzle. That was a safer hire.
28:54
Mh.
28:55
Regardless of this is not 1 where what's
28:57
the win loss record in 5 years,
29:00
that's gonna determine
29:02
the way the hire is viewed.
29:05
This is a case where,
29:09
you know, the
29:10
the choice of coach
29:13
was based on other factors other than when
29:14
it wins and losses. Does that make sense?
29:17
Yeah. So that allows me to cut that
29:19
principal some Slack and say, okay? That principle
29:22
was in box box, and I wasn't the
29:24
solution to that box. Right. The other case...
29:27
Because, I mean, that happens in it and
29:29
it doesn't even have to be
29:30
gender or race,
29:32
I think that happens in a lot of
29:34
scenarios and situations. I mean, where maybe,
29:37
you know, the broader picture isn't maybe just
29:40
the skill set, but it's other things that
29:42
those people can bring into your business community
29:45
Yeah work environment.
29:47
And the and adding to it. And so
29:49
for that example too, I also just think
29:51
of fluency
29:53
in the language.
29:54
Yeah. You know,
29:55
language barriers that were encountered. It wasn't...
29:59
It wasn't unreasonable,
30:01
you know, for you to
30:03
I had you had a that was fluent
30:04
in space. Yeah. So you had solutions you
30:07
came up with it, But then
30:08
not the same as being fluent as the
30:10
head. You're right? You know, but also, my
30:12
said that happens in a lot of other
30:14
things like, what can this other person bring
30:16
in that we may not see,
30:18
you know,
30:20
for ourselves, like we're looking like, but we're
30:22
so much more that we have so much
30:23
more experience Or we have such a better
30:25
track record, Yeah. You know.
30:27
But you're right. It just wasn't fitting the
30:29
need at that moment. Build The other case
30:31
is,
30:33
and I'll explain the background on this 1
30:35
faster because there's no racial component. I'm not
30:37
uncomfortable. The other case was 1,
30:39
where I was passed over twice by this
30:42
particular athletic director that I know well and
30:44
have worked for as an assistant coach.
30:46
And and I have a very good win
30:50
loss record
30:51
as a lower level coach at the school.
30:53
But
30:54
the...
30:55
Both times, the person that got the job,
30:58
their resume
31:00
was objectively shiny near than mine. Mh. They
31:03
had more experience
31:04
than I did. And I think again, this
31:07
athletic director made the safe decision safe for
31:10
covering their own hide.
31:12
You know, if you looked at those 2
31:13
resumes,
31:14
and let's say you make the hire and
31:17
things go poorly, you can say, this was
31:20
the best candidate that was available at the
31:22
time. So even if they went bad, and
31:24
I have the fire. I and I gotta
31:25
replace them, I picked the best candidate
31:28
at the time regardless of you know, things
31:30
like loyalty and track record and and
31:34
relationship. So,
31:36
like I said, I'm not gonna over explain
31:38
this 1.
31:40
Again, it was safety for that person. So
31:42
in both of my cases,
31:44
the principal and the athletic director made the
31:46
safest choice.
31:48
To cover their own tails, and I happen
31:50
to know that both at principle and that
31:51
athletic director work long hours and have stressful
31:54
jobs and are under a ton of pressure
31:57
from not only managing students, but from parents
32:00
and from other community members and from their
32:02
bosses.
32:03
And so
32:04
I can think about the fact that made
32:06
the safe choice and go, okay.
32:09
Yeah. I see that. I'm I'm not a
32:12
choose of safety myself. I will almost always.
32:15
Our risk day. I will almost always choose
32:18
the radical choice. Yes. And roll the dice
32:20
and see what happens. Yes. And hope for
32:22
the best. Yeah. But I don't think I'm
32:25
the norm, and I think these people made
32:27
safe choices as most people would. Yeah. And
32:30
that does bit ton for me.
32:32
To re to let go of the resentment,
32:34
Thinking about what their fear was. Their fear
32:39
drove the decision and passed me up.
32:42
And I mean, it's a lot of relief
32:44
to think that there's... So let's talk about
32:46
your situation.
32:47
Okay. So the meeting facility talk or do
32:50
you want me to stop? You just gonna
32:52
present it in his so the meeting facilitator
32:55
that shu you. Now, what's the meeting facilitator
32:58
that that's just. Okay. Well, maybe I shouldn't
32:59
talk.
33:01
It was not meeting
33:03
prefer a break for me talking. It was
33:04
not the meeting facilitator. Right.
33:07
They were a person who is
33:10
on the board but had had
33:12
been,
33:13
you know, the chair
33:15
of the board for a while.
33:17
And then they rolled off, but they stayed
33:18
on the board,
33:19
and
33:21
I was shu by that person who had
33:24
rolled off the board.
33:27
The chair
33:29
of the board was going to explain to
33:32
me
33:33
the scenario. Mh. Of why this probably wasn't
33:36
a good idea.
33:39
And I know why I got shift.
33:41
It wasn't because I've was going off tangent
33:44
and talking about something
33:46
that wasn't relatable.
33:48
It was because we were gonna to discuss
33:50
finances
33:51
in front of staff members
33:53
and parent volunteers
33:56
to fill a role
33:57
that
33:59
we had talked about for the last 2
34:01
years
34:02
on the board.
34:03
But now there's a
34:05
semi
34:06
solution
34:07
and much has been allocated for that position
34:09
in other
34:11
staff positions and
34:13
and faculty positions.
34:16
So there's that. So it was about finances,
34:19
and there's a little sub committee
34:22
that talks about that, but it's not shared
34:24
with the Board in general.
34:26
So I don't know if it was fear.
34:28
Maybe it was fear that they were gonna...
34:30
Someone was gonna give away some numbers and
34:32
say, oh, that budget
34:34
for that salary has now been real allocated
34:37
to do all these other things
34:39
to make the job pay raise more attractive
34:43
to
34:44
incoming
34:45
positions. Well, I think it's definitely fair. So
34:48
it's this part that I already been figured
34:50
out,
34:51
Mh. Sherry, if you ask your question or
34:53
make your point, we're gonna have to go
34:56
into the weeds and we don't wanna go
34:57
into the weeds because then
34:59
people will know too much or they might
35:00
start asking about this. And so
35:03
it's absolutely fear of
35:06
transparency. Yeah.
35:07
That's good. Because I was late... Because that's
35:10
I immediately knew was like, oh, so they
35:12
don't want us to know everything.
35:14
They don't want this piece of the board
35:16
to know everything.
35:17
And
35:18
so I never really linked it to fear.
35:21
I know on the last podcast, I said
35:23
I would start putting things to the filter
35:25
a fear going back to something I hadn't
35:27
really thought of. So I know you're a
35:29
better than I am, but does it do
35:32
anything for you
35:34
to to think about that person's
35:36
position who shu you
35:38
and
35:39
recognize that they were afraid of that level
35:41
of transparency because it was gonna add work
35:43
for them. They'd have to do some more
35:45
explaining. There'd probably be more questions. Too many
35:47
people would know too much stuff.
35:50
Does they? Does that relieve any of your
35:53
resentment for being shu?
35:55
No. Because I ironically the person that was
35:57
gonna tell me the situation is also the
36:00
person who is a
36:02
consultant finance in the accountant for the company
36:05
too, Like, this this piece of the the
36:07
company. So
36:09
they had no fear in explaining.
36:13
But I think that the other person who
36:16
has done
36:17
negotiations and had been on many boards,
36:20
educational boards, whatever,
36:21
I think
36:23
that they just felt like it...
36:25
I mean, from their point of view.
36:28
I think I can understand that that it
36:30
would just be too much to
36:32
to
36:34
explain
36:35
and on fold in front of the rest
36:37
of the board, which some people were newer.
36:40
So you can understand my care. You can
36:42
understand why you were should. I can totally
36:44
understand that. But it does still pissed. It
36:46
doesn't really hear at all. Still makes me
36:47
a little pissed. A little... But no, It
36:50
makes me just a little pissed. K. That's
36:52
all.
36:53
You just think that every time I talk
36:55
I'm animated and that it just that I'm
36:57
all worked up. I sat right next in
36:59
the person, person and I worked on 4
37:01
other projects
37:02
I said you love them. So
37:04
it just I'm like,
37:06
this thing that makes me that that drives
37:09
my frustration by it is the 2 different
37:12
little aspects of it. You know, the lab
37:14
of transparency.
37:16
That's what... And it's not a... I don't
37:18
think it's a
37:19
fear
37:21
of transparency.
37:22
I think it's a... And it's not a
37:24
fear, like, you know, fo? Like, I don't
37:27
know what's going on in that of the
37:28
board. I just think, well, why am I
37:30
here if I'm only getting personal information and
37:32
we're of making the best
37:35
decisions for the
37:36
the project. Okay. Maybe we're getting to the
37:38
root here. I hope we're not we're probably
37:40
just confusing people so much. But you don't
37:42
wanna be on this board to begin with.
37:44
Don't even though I get paid. You've kind
37:46
of been forced into this
37:49
because of your position is a director of
37:50
children's medicine. Yeah. So you don't Even serve...
37:53
Else said On will... On the day after
37:55
the meeting, like, 20 minutes after the meeting.
37:57
Toy have to be on the this So
37:59
you're not frustrated about being Shu. You have
38:02
resentment because you're there to begin with. Well,
38:04
I have to them if I have be
38:06
there. If I have to be there I
38:08
wanna be productive and I want to make
38:10
the best possible decisions, and I can't make
38:13
a good decision when it's presented to me
38:15
when I only know pieces of the information.
38:18
So the solution
38:19
isn't for you to recognize
38:22
the other person's
38:24
fear of transparency.
38:25
The solution is for you to be let
38:27
off the board. Yeah. But it's not gonna
38:29
have.
38:30
K. So that's why I just decided that
38:32
I'm just
38:34
going to be
38:36
looking at it, like, I am a volunteer.
38:38
I mean, I'm not gonna let things go
38:39
crazy. Okay. Well, that wasn't a very good
38:42
example. It's not your fault. Sorry. That's wasn't
38:44
a very example of how to to
38:47
present processing without the other person.
38:50
And I think Well, I just wanna say,
38:52
like, what I do in that situation
38:56
is I just remember,
38:58
this person wasn't doing it.
39:00
To be un kind to me.
39:02
They were trying to kind of protect
39:05
some of the information that they feel like
39:07
other people
39:09
don't really have to know. Well, you made
39:10
that point? And so I can I can
39:13
appreciate that piece, but then
39:15
this is the big piece? I have to
39:17
remember all that this person
39:19
does for our community
39:21
outside of the church and what she does
39:23
for me and how... And, like, she has
39:26
hired our kids to do work for her,
39:29
you know, like, we have helped her... Yeah.
39:31
You love her. So I'm just saying, like...
39:33
So when I have
39:34
that moment of, like, oh, here I go.
39:36
Wonder if When gonna I get sure at
39:37
this meeting. You know, I say, no. I...
39:40
I mean, and if I am, I am
39:41
a big kid,
39:43
I can handle it,
39:45
and I just gotta remember that this person
39:47
has a lot of other things that are
39:50
so admirable,
39:52
you know,
39:53
Absolutely.
39:55
Absolutely.
39:57
Okay. Let's let's turn this back to alcoholism.
39:59
Let's talk about
40:00
you know, 1 of your biggest resentment
40:03
occurred on your fort birthday. Mh. And we've
40:06
told the story many times, so I'm gonna
40:08
give the abbreviated verse,
40:10
but it was your fort birthday. I planned
40:13
a weekend away in the mountains for just
40:15
you and me. I arranged for babysitter,
40:17
and then I have planned I planned,
40:19
you know, like, stuff for us to do
40:22
activities on our weekend away, and we were...
40:25
And so we
40:27
when went out of town, and the, you
40:30
know, the problem started when we were in
40:32
traffic on the highway
40:34
because I was complaining about the traffic and
40:37
slam the steering wheel and and being just
40:39
generally
40:41
unpleasant to be around.
40:42
And, of course, the reason was I wanted
40:44
to get to the condo we were staying
40:46
in and start drinking.
40:50
And
40:51
you know, another thing that really bothered you
40:54
about the weekend is that I had every
40:56
minute planned.
40:57
And so there wasn't a lot of leisure
40:59
downtime, which is something that you really wanted
41:02
for that birthday weekend. Some relaxing.
41:05
And everything
41:06
that I had planned was oriented around either
41:09
alcohol or sex. Yes.
41:11
Is all that fair? Yes. Okay. So we
41:14
have talked about it many times, this is
41:16
1 as you were describing earlier that you
41:18
had to come back around to a few
41:19
times. You had to figure out what... What's
41:21
the real core pain?
41:23
What's the real thing? Because it it kept
41:25
coming up? Mh. And
41:28
luckily, I had done enough recovery work that
41:30
I was
41:32
accepting of the fact that it kept coming
41:33
up. I didn't say things like, we already
41:35
talked about that, Sherry. We're not gonna talk
41:36
about it anymore. I said, oh, this is
41:38
interesting
41:39
that you keep bringing this up. This 1
41:41
obviously hurt more than others did. Mh.
41:44
Which, you know, again, objectively, it wasn't the
41:47
worst thing I did. Did lots of worse
41:49
things than that. Yeah. We are the... But
41:51
it wasn't as it wasn't as volatile
41:54
you know, it could have been. Mh. Yeah.
41:56
But so
41:58
allowing you to keep coming back to it
42:00
was
42:01
helpful for your processing, and it was interesting
42:04
to me because why is this the 1
42:06
that's sticking it across so much?
42:09
But all that happened. Let's say I for
42:12
whatever reason wasn't available for you to process
42:14
with either because I said, you know, screw
42:17
you
42:19
I don't wanna talk about the past anymore.
42:20
I'm sober now. Let's think about the future
42:22
or because we had parted ways.
42:26
What would the resentment processing have looked like?
42:28
And I'm wondering,
42:30
would you have thought about what was I
42:32
afraid of on your fort birthday that caused
42:35
me to behave the way I did?
42:37
Do you have any ideas?
42:39
What I have thought about what you were
42:41
afraid of?
42:43
Well, yeah. So what what do you think
42:45
I was afraid of?
42:48
I guess, I'm not asking would you have
42:50
done this. I'm asking you to do it
42:52
now. Yeah. What do you think I was
42:54
afraid of?
42:56
And not being entertaining enough.
42:59
Not being exciting enough. You think Again Not
43:03
being in it? Yeah. That I would be
43:04
bored. And I'd be like, this is all
43:05
you offer for my fort birthday. Oh, okay.
43:08
You know? Like, that's all you got.
43:12
I mean, I guess maybe fear of, like,
43:14
not being impressed. By you and your plans.
43:18
You know what's really interesting. I thought about
43:20
this all day, and I made a list
43:22
of things that I afraid of, and that
43:23
wasn't on the list, but now that you've
43:25
said it, you're right. That definitely would have
43:27
been a big part of it. Because my...
43:29
Your 20 second birthday didn't do enough and
43:31
you had to show me up. Well,
43:34
because you wanted to drink... I I'm not
43:36
a good gift purchaser and I'm not a
43:38
good gift rapper
43:41
And, you know, this goes beyond
43:44
me being cheap, which we've talked about
43:46
at nausea on this podcast, but beyond me
43:49
being cheap. I'm just... That's not my thing.
43:52
Mh. And so
43:54
planning this weekend, you're absolutely right.
43:57
Was important to me to
43:59
show you how much I loved you.
44:01
Through through action, like
44:04
like, this was my gift to you was
44:06
all this stuff of the weekend. You're absolutely
44:07
right.
44:09
Well, what did you come up with?
44:12
Let's see.
44:13
I was also afraid of reality.
44:16
Like, this was a little fantasy we were
44:18
on. This is fantasy island for us. Right?
44:21
We had... Yeah. We had We left Friday
44:23
afternoon, and we were coming back till Sunday
44:25
night and
44:27
no kids and no work.
44:29
And Yeah. We had 4 kids standing and
44:31
under. Go through was fantasy.
44:32
Right.
44:33
So the fear of reality, the fear of
44:36
returning to the routine
44:39
I know it was your birthday weekend, but
44:41
it was my escape.
44:43
And I definitely in see part of the
44:45
problem is, I didn't ask you what you
44:47
wanted. I mean, that's a huge part of.
44:50
Ding.
44:51
But in my head, it was, okay. Let's
44:54
maximize the party.
44:55
Let's maximize
44:57
the drinking, let's maximize the sex.
45:01
And let... And, you know, more than that,
45:03
let's maximize the party atmosphere and the file.
45:05
Let's go to when we go out to
45:06
eat, let's make it fun places. There were
45:08
places with live music for instance, let's go
45:10
to those places
45:12
and
45:13
and just make it a true escape. So
45:16
I think you're right out. In addition to
45:18
being afraid of letting you down.
45:21
I was also afraid of the reality that
45:23
I was returning to. I didn't hate my
45:25
job. I loved our kids, I liked their
45:28
house,
45:29
but,
45:31
you know, when you're go go go, go
45:33
go all the time,
45:35
that escape is really special and really
45:41
important, I guess.
45:42
And so
45:43
I was afraid of, we've only got 48
45:46
hours,
45:47
and if we don't use every minute of
45:49
it effectively,
45:51
then I will be
45:52
regret.
45:54
That was a part of it as well.
45:55
So
45:57
the... You know, kind of the question is
45:59
if I wasn't here to talk through this
46:01
with,
46:02
could
46:04
the thoughts about what I was afraid of,
46:06
could those have helped
46:08
to alleviate
46:10
your
46:11
resentment about
46:12
the way your 40 birthday weekend went. Yeah.
46:14
I probably also would have carried along with
46:17
me
46:18
that he just didn't know me. He just
46:21
know what I wanted.
46:22
Not that you were so
46:24
selfish and
46:26
unable to ask me, you just
46:28
And and and maybe because I would have,
46:31
like, continued to learn about alcohol and understand
46:34
how selfish it was. I maybe would have
46:36
put it through the filter of. He was
46:37
just too self serving to even ask what
46:40
I wanted because he thought he knew me.
46:42
He thought I knew what I wanted.
46:44
I don't...
46:46
I think I would have
46:48
been a little bit more
46:52
like disappointed about that piece?
46:56
Mh.
46:58
Like, you not knowing me
47:00
But if we would have parted company,
47:02
then there would have been a million other
47:04
instances where I could,
47:06
you know, have said he didn't know me
47:08
then. He didn't know me he didn't know
47:10
me then.
47:11
So it would have kind of
47:14
made sense,
47:16
and that would have been a way that
47:17
I could
47:19
like, process it, like, even though it sounds
47:21
negative to say he doesn't even know me
47:23
or didn't ask,
47:25
but I can say, alcohol made him so
47:27
self serving.
47:29
That he couldn't think beyond what his needs
47:32
work.
47:35
To know what my these were.
47:38
And that's 1 of the reasons were not
47:40
together anymore.
47:44
I think that would be kind of like,
47:48
a way I could accept
47:50
that.
47:52
And process it.
47:54
You know, besides the fact that, like, I
47:56
would have been, like, yeah. And
47:59
he probably was afraid that I wouldn't be
48:01
impressed because I have been kind of,
48:05
you know, cruel 1 time when you wrapped
48:07
a gift,
48:08
you know, and it was really hap and,
48:12
you know,
48:14
so
48:14
I could also have
48:16
processed reason and by also looking a little
48:19
bit more inward and say, there were times
48:21
that I was very,
48:23
you know, g and
48:25
and mean about the gift and the quality
48:28
of the gift because we've talked about, like,
48:30
the Franklin planner and, you know, because you
48:32
just wanted me to be like, you and
48:34
organized or to clean everything.
48:36
You know, You thought it would be nice
48:38
to housekeeping, and it just made me feel
48:39
like, I didn't have the skill set to
48:41
clean the house. You know?
48:43
So
48:45
I'm sure I could have
48:47
processed it and put it through that filter
48:49
too. Like, I'm
48:50
kinda was
48:52
part of the reason he maybe
48:54
would have felt bad.
48:59
Yeah.
49:01
Interesting.
49:04
Yeah.
49:05
So I mean, I think though, because we
49:07
processed it
49:09
and thankfully been able to do it together,
49:12
I mean, part of it is that you
49:13
didn't even ask me what I wanted and
49:16
what I needed.
49:17
So I think that would have stayed true.
49:20
I just would have had to deal with
49:22
it,
49:23
you know, from the aspect of late, that
49:26
was because of... Yeah. Man that would have
49:28
been because of our alcohol. That's my part
49:30
of it. Whether we did it together or
49:33
not,
49:36
you know, this is really kind of the
49:37
first time we're addressing the why.
49:40
Because
49:41
when we talked... When we have talked about
49:43
this many times in the past this particular
49:45
event, for why has always been, oh, I
49:47
was a selfish alcoholic. Yeah. And that's true,
49:51
but it's also not maybe...
49:53
Like, there's a y behind that too. Yeah.
49:55
No. It's not the
49:56
it's not the
49:58
the not baseline. It's not the
50:01
not the full why. There's more to it.
50:04
Yeah. The fear of compressing you
50:07
that need to maximize
50:10
the the limited amount of time together because
50:13
of my fear of going back. So maybe
50:15
a set of a recent
50:17
maybe... I'm sorry. It... But I don't wanna
50:19
lose my thought. Maybe instead of,
50:21
sometimes
50:22
some of those resentment
50:24
things that you...
50:26
If you can't do them with your partner,
50:28
it has to be
50:32
kinda you have to reconcile it within yourself.
50:35
And I think a big part of that
50:36
is what we're talking about, really
50:39
trying to understand
50:41
what it is
50:43
about this person in this situation that made
50:46
that behavior,
50:48
you know, go that way. Because then I
50:50
think you have more empathy to when you
50:51
can, like, look at it from this. What
50:53
is this,
50:55
you know, fear concern, worry. Yeah. That made
50:58
him do that?
51:00
And then
51:01
I mean I think the m empathy is
51:03
really
51:04
kind of the only way
51:07
to release the resentment itself. Yeah.
51:10
I mean, going back to my examples,
51:12
because yours is too muddled to actually use
51:16
of the.
51:17
Okay. But my examples of
51:21
you know, resentment for being passed over,
51:24
if I can get to the point of
51:26
empathy for the person, like,
51:27
they made the they made the safe choice,
51:30
and they had a lot going on in
51:31
their life and in their career
51:34
and asking them make the heart choices asking
51:36
too much. So,
51:38
I have empathy for the fact that they
51:39
made the safe choice.
51:41
That totally does help me
51:43
to
51:44
take them off the hook to take them
51:46
off my call list for when we would
51:48
say title.
51:49
They won't hear anything from me.
51:51
They'll just have to go a rumor mill.
51:53
Let's look at your records. I mean, I
51:55
am not so
51:57
good at taking the high road
51:59
as to say that I don't hope that
52:01
they know.
52:03
And I don't hope that they think,
52:05
I wonder what could happen
52:07
because I do. I do hope, but I'm
52:09
not gonna be the 1 to point it
52:10
out to them. Yeah.
52:12
Because I have empathy for them. Mh. And
52:15
having empathy for an alcoholic partner to bring
52:17
it back to this side of the conversation
52:20
when this alcoholic partners the 1 that is
52:23
caused all this pain for you.
52:26
That's a big ask.
52:28
That's a really hard thing to do. Kind
52:30
of empathy for your,
52:32
you know, your perpetrator, basically.
52:34
But
52:36
But
52:37
I think
52:38
thinking of what they were afraid of,
52:41
thinking why they acted the way they did
52:45
and trying to find empathy for them.
52:48
I don't think that's a gift you're giving
52:49
to that person. I think that's a gift
52:51
you're giving to yourself.
52:53
Because it's helping you to let go of
52:54
the resentment when you don't have them to
52:56
converse about with
52:58
converse about the resentment with,
53:01
So...
53:03
Yeah.
53:05
It's empathy powerful, and it's
53:07
it's not just powerful to for to the
53:09
person on the receiving end, it's powerful to
53:11
the give of empathy as well.
53:15
So very true. Tough process. Present processing, whether
53:19
it's with someone or without them. There's a
53:21
lot to it. And,
53:23
you know, that's
53:24
know, 1 of the things that we try
53:26
to be here for people to help them
53:28
with, whether it's just from listening to a
53:31
podcast and saying,
53:33
okay. I guess got 2 little tidbits from
53:35
that podcast, things that can help me when
53:38
I think about the resentment, I have to
53:39
deal with with my partner who's not
53:42
available to process with me,
53:45
or whether it's,
53:47
you know,
53:48
expressing interest in and getting involved in our
53:51
tribes and our
53:52
our our different programs.
53:54
You know, we want to be a part
53:56
of working through this with folks and helping
53:59
them find the empathy and helping them recognize
54:01
the fear and others
54:03
and helping them release it. So it doesn't
54:05
dog him anymore.
54:06
In our records of recovery group this week,
54:08
somebody made the comment
54:10
that
54:12
they're really doing well. Their
54:14
own personal recovery is going well.
54:17
This person's
54:18
partner who previously was a drinker Their... That
54:22
person's sobriety is going well. That person's recovery
54:24
is going well. And the relationship recovery is
54:27
going well. This is a success stories. That
54:30
this is a couple that we're really we're
54:31
really proud of, and we're excited to see
54:33
what happens next for them. And this a
54:36
person who was a member of our echoes
54:38
of recovery group said,
54:41
I still do the writing in this group
54:44
because it helps me get that residual junk
54:47
out.
54:48
Because 1 things start to go well,
54:50
it's really easy to just focus on the
54:52
good. Look, we made it. Sunshine now we're
54:55
good, but there's still stuff down there, and
54:57
I love that she used the word gunk.
54:59
Yeah. There's still the I gotta get out.
55:01
Yeah. And I feel like that's also true
55:04
for you and I with our weekly meetings
55:06
that we continue to have
55:08
even though
55:10
there's no question but that we are both
55:12
individually stronger and also, our relationship is stronger.
55:15
But if we just
55:17
kinda lean and rely on the fact that
55:19
things are better than they used to be
55:21
than that residual gunk
55:23
continues to
55:25
stay stuck and kinda clog things up.
55:27
So the doing the work to get it
55:29
out is important even when you've got most
55:31
of it out. Mh. Keep on going, don't
55:33
you think? I think so. And I gotta
55:36
tell you sitting here across this microphone from
55:38
you, and
55:40
talking it through in this forum and then
55:42
blasting it out to the world. That sure
55:44
helps get the gunk out too.
55:47
So thanks for being my d.
55:52
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these
55:54
3 resources.
55:56
If you love, or loved an alcoholic. We
55:58
offer support and connection in our echoes of
56:00
recovery group. Check us out at echoes of
56:03
recovery dot org. If you are a high
56:05
functioning alcoholic, seeking methods and connection in early
56:08
sobriety.
56:09
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot
56:12
org. No matter who you are. There's something
56:14
for you in our book. Sober revolution, evolve
56:17
into sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage.
56:20
Go to sober revolution dot org. For my
56:23
wife, Sherry Sal, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for
56:26
listening to the intoxicated podcast.