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AIM High: Creating content for social engagement · Two in Twenty

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to another episode of I my field.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I am the candidate to um today.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: We are continuing to talk about content specifically uh content for engaging clients in your social strategy.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so much to be talking about this from a content perspective, a creative perspective, resourcing, um as well as getting internal buy-in.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um got two great speakers on this uh Vincent Bogan, who is the director of marketing at Lord Abbott, as well as George Owen, who is the founder and director of a creative identity called HMED.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I will hand it back to them.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, George, and thanks for joining me today to talk about creating content to drive engagement in your social strategies.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm conscious as a sort of content element to that and a creative element to that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so thank you for both bringing a sort of um different perspectives to this.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um perhaps uh I can ask you to introduce yourselves and then we will get into the flow of some of some questions.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'll come to you first, Vince, and then and then George.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sure, thanks, Twink.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my name is Vince Grogan.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm director of marketing at Lord Abbott.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm responsible for all aspects of our marketing across the globe, digital experience, content, uh, channel engagement, uh, and brand building.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and uh I'm thrilled to be here.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh this should be a fun conversation.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, thank you, George.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, so I'm George, I'm the founder of Itch, and we are a creative content studio.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we work um with brands of all different sorts of brands on um both content strategy and execution.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we're working predominantly in film and animation uh and doing social media strategies and internal comms and basically anything that involves video content or visual content.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Superb.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so when we are thinking about our social content and our social strategies, what really are the kind of starting principles and expectations that we should have for that for that channel?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, for us, we really think it's an essential element of what we're doing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think, you know, it's probably stating the obvious, but over the course of the past year and a half in particular, uh, we've come to appreciate, I would say, as much our colleagues on the sales side have come to appreciate just how important these platforms are.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and of course, as the platforms themselves have come to mature, uh uh the capabilities that are available to us, the information that's available to us um have just grown at remarkable speed.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and we're incredibly excited.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think really, irrespective of where we're at in a particular market, it's an essential component of uh of what we're doing.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: George, what would you say when you're working with your clients around their social strategies?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think clients, particularly in the last five years, their their view on social media and their social.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they they have social strategies now, which five years ago they didn't have.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think more and more it's becoming increasingly important to them.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we're definitely seeing a big shift from you know from TV spots.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: We used to do a lot of TV spots, we don't do any TV spots now.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's all social, all social media.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um within the financial space, it's slightly different because uh there's a lot of internal calm stuff and events and investor relations type content.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: But outside of financial, you know, our consumer clients, we are really aiming just at social media, and we're doing whole campaigns just focused at Instagram or just focused at TikTok.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really interesting because you're seeing like big brands investing a lot into these platforms, and you're seeing, I mean, you you see the results.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: You see, you see the I think over the last so we have one particular client, and over the last year, they've doubled their Instagram audience, and as a result, they're selling a lot more products, and they now have a lot, and they have now have a completely different audience, which is a lot younger and more and more kind of savvy to those platforms.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that that social gets at is um even in the financial space, I think we we spend less time thinking about folks in their professional role.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's never completely taken away, but the fact is, is every single one of these people, we see it when we're in the office, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: We we see people, they're looking at their phones at their desk.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a part of their day to day.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it's essential to be thinking about every single one of our target audience as individual consumers of content, irrespective of of how they sort of operate in a professional capacity, because because that they don't leave those things behind when they when they go to work every day.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're looking at Instagram, they're looking at LinkedIn, they're looking at at Facebook, what have you.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is fully integrated at this point, I think.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's less of a, I think there's less of a generational divide.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, some platforms are more uh uh uh you know more involved in people's lives depending on on their social circumstances, but um, but I do think it it has forced us to appreciate that they are as much individual consumers as they are their their individual their professional role, rather.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: That makes it quite tricky, doesn't it, when you start to think about your target audience and sort of thinking about segmenting and things like that, that you can't necessarily group and cluster these guys when you have to think quite sort of their individual needs that are gonna sort of disrupt their journeys and you're gonna sort of capture them in your own content.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you even start to do the planning?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna take that?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I mean, with with us, it's on some level we we, you know, the nice thing about social is uh unlike television or or sort of you know uh uh uh you know broadsheet print, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can target in ways we could never before.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Our ability to be precise about who we're bringing content to, where we're bringing it to them, I think is is an incredible, uh, uh incredibly big step forward for us as marketers.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so um uh we start by sort of understanding who they are, where they live, where they spend their time, um, but we also presume that in their role as a as a as a private citizen, so to speak, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're consuming content and they have expectations about that content, about it being visually engaging, about it being fun, about it being entertaining.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we we think about this through several lenses.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly we start with who they are in their professional capacity, but um, but I think there are some basic components around content uh and about how that content should be engaging um that is part of every single one of those, uh uh how we approach every single one of those audiences.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think um, you know, just from a from a creative point of view, I think uh you we're we're obviously um tailoring our creative based on the audience and based on the platform.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you know, creative will be different for an Instagram audience to a LinkedIn audience.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: But but as you say, Vince, I think you know it's it's important to remember that these whoever you're targeting is probably gonna be across all the platforms.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: So if if you're a if you're a brand and you're ignoring one of those main platforms that that you know your audience is going to be on, that's a big problem.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I do think um a lot of a lot of the financial institutions, and you you guys probably know this, uh will have more of an insight into this than me, but but sometimes they they go, oh, Instagram's not for me.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or is Instagram is for for the for the um you know the graduate team.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's a cult, it's uh it's uh uh it's for it's for culture, and that's it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that's a that sometimes is a big, big flaw.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I I am expecting that to change.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm expecting financial institutions to get much more creative and much more widespread amongst those those kind of platforms like Instagram and even TikTok.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh I think you'll see you'll see some starting to starting to delve into TikTok a little bit.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder, as you're saying that, George, whether partly our industry, investment industry, has a sort of comfort blanket in words and and quite a lot of them in all these white papers and things like that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And actually getting to a place of a very simple message that is impactful.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and so that's why Instagram is difficult because it's so much more visually, maybe, than you can sort of with the words and simply with a lot of this sort of lackable content.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is really challenging the way that investment managers and marketing partners within them are telling a story.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I guess I'd love your thoughts on that, both of you, as to sort of how you think this industry is evolving to make it a lot more accessible, to to simplify that story, and actually embracing social is enabling our industry to to really have um to be much more relatable.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think a couple of a couple of the things that we kick up against.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Compliance.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And um I think when you said you know the industry has a has a comfort in words, I think that is so true because because people are are a little bit scared of video um or even imagery, you know, putting putting themselves out there is is quite a scary thing to do.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, once you get into it, um the marketing departments are nervous because changing a video is a lot harder than changing a Word document.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Or it can be.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it there are ways to make that process smoother and easier and and more manageable, but but that's the kind of natural lean is to is to do words over imagery.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely think that the answer is embracing it a bit more and being because by doing that, you're you're showing your authentic, uh your authentic self, your authentic part of your company, which is what everyone wants to do, and how you're gonna you know grow as a business and how you're gonna get people to to to come on board and all of that stuff.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I think I think the only way to do that is to is to jump jump in feet first and embrace it, yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I I also think you know, and I I've I've told this to my content people for for a long time now, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just because the people we're looking to engage are dealing in sophisticated concepts, they have no more desire to be bored by us than anyone else, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why would anyone want to be, you know, I mean, and and of course, you know, there are limits to we we need to understand, but uh uh but I mean, really, and one of the nice things about social is that you can, you know, no one's posting a white paper to to Instagram or even to LinkedIn, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is it, it presents this wonderful opportunity to create engagement.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that to me is I think what what such a huge leap forward from from print or broadcast, which is that you have this incredible opportunity in that moment to get somebody to engage with you, to take an affirmative action with your content.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so there is such there's wonderful opportunities there to make it fun, to make it interesting.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you're taking them to a piece of of you know, to a PDF with some some more technical content, even that, we should challenge ourselves not to have that be dull and boring.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and and designers, I mean, a good designer loves that, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Who wants a video or an audio or a graphic designer to tell them, listen, I want this to be as plain and uninteresting as possible?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants that, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Even the most sophisticated client does not want to be bored.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's a really important thing for us to remember when we think about content.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And social gives us a good a good place to to play with that, I think.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: I I will I will say, Vince, I once had a client come back and say, can you make this a bit more boring?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, a little piece of me died.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: A little piece of me died then.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it was a competitor.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I do I do think this point, I'm interested, George, about how far through the journey sometimes you you get involved in because you can you can see how you could kind of create some great pity content to sort of disrupt and engage within a platform.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then the kind of the kind of pre-click, post-click journey feels so different because you take them to a kind of very funky website, and then there's a sort of form and a big, deep think piece, and and and the the person there's still kind of just sort of flirting and thinking and sort of engaged a little bit to sort of hit them with that sort of heavy sort of next step.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes it's sort of where we we lose people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, you can be characterful, playful, try things.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I I just wonder whether the industry has quite thought about the next step and the next step, making sure that the tone and the creative and the content plays through along with the expectations at where they've started.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the the the short answer to your to your question is I think we can deploy these things at any point in the in the journey, and irrespective of where we're at in our relationship with that client, um uh because at any given point in time, I think, and I'll go back to what I said before, it is an opportunity to engage, even if it's a trigger to get them uh into a more detailed conversation um or to download a more technical piece of content.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think wherever they're at, whether they're just meeting us for the first time or there's somebody who's been with us for quite a while, um, there is a chance, an easy way for them to be reminded of the fact that we have good intellectual capital to share.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and more importantly, and this is again another thing that I think is makes social so much more compelling than some more traditional platforms, is it really sort of lends itself to a to a dialogue, to a conversation.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the idea that it's like they're gonna read something and then go to our website or see something on TV and then go to our website, we can get them there instantaneously, and just as instantaneously if we want, sort of put them in direct contact uh with a human being.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and and you know, uh LinkedIn is a great example of that, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the the sort of the the stream component, and then you've got that opportunity to engage directly uh in the moment.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's just a wonderful uh way to sort of keep the dialogue going uh at a much quicker pace than traditional media ever offered us.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think um I think it's so important.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, from what from what we do, we you know, we're we're creating video content or imagery or whatever and and giving it to the giving it to our clients.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And essentially that's giving them a set of tools, you know.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's up, it's it's really kind of uh up to them to really maximize those tools and to you know if if they just put a video up on LinkedIn or whatever or Instagram and expect it to kind of do its job, that's it's it's probably gonna fail.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: But if they use it as a really engagement tool and if they're using it to drive traffic somewhere else, and they and as Vince says, if they're engaging, you know, there's got to be someone on the other end, you know, doing a bit of a community management if it's on Instagram and and really engaging with the posts that are coming back in, that's that's when that's when that that material becomes really, really effective.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: But um but often like sometimes it it doesn't, it doesn't get the love that it it it deserves.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and um that's when that's when you know the results aren't quite as good.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: But um but yeah, it's all it's all about how you use it really.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that brings me to sort of that the best practice thinking around that for sort of encouraging kind of the sort of internal teams to share it and how do you kind of how do you ultimately get that sort of um momentum behind it?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I'll just I'll just say that's interesting because one of the things that's fun about this internally is that um like I can think of just two days ago this sort of very lively debate within my creative team about you know how to structure an animated social post.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think color and motion and and and uh uh and and we're talking about very small bits of time, um, uh but that have really gotten a very lively conversation going for us about what goes first, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is there copy there, is there color there, is there is there something should we focus more on just getting people's attention and then sort of giving them uh substance?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or should we give them the substance up front?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I think that the truth of it is a lot of it depends on on who you're trying to engage, what you're driving them to.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, but I do think this uh for marketers and for creatives, uh it we're just in this wonderful moment where we've got this incredibly fun sandbox to play in, we've got all these toys to work with.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and whether it's George or others, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: There we've got an army of very creative people who are looking to help us and who frankly are competing to sort of see how much more interest can we generate uh uh with the content we're we're delivering.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um and the nice thing is because these different platforms have different value propositions, um uh they're sort of forcing us to think beyond a one-size-fits-all uh approach, uh, and that every single piece of content is being um shaped and molded for each of these discrete platforms.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh and that will, because of the feedback we get in real time, um, that's giving us more information and ideas about what works and what doesn't uh than we've really ever had before.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would I I would completely agree with that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um, you know, we do a lot, we do we we work with a lot of our consumer clients on on um on A-B testing.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we'll produce a bit of creative, we'll produce a bit of coffee, uh uh like tailor the message and then produce something else and see what gets the most engagement and see how how it performs on social, and then we'll start structuring social content based on that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's not I personally it's not the ideal way to do it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: I always like kind of coming up with the creative first, but but you know, but I I feel like the machines are are steering us in this direction.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um but but you know, there's all sorts of you know rules and frequency of of what you post and how you post it, and and obviously, you know, making sure captions are on everything and all of that stuff.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: So there's so there's set rules that you can follow, um, but it is about it's uh I I think it's about working with with the client really closely and you know, client or agency and working really closely to develop that creative and and work together to to see what works, see what doesn't work, because it's not gonna it's not gonna be right every single time, but then developing formats that can be repeated and uh and developed, and and suddenly your you know suddenly every single brand is is becoming their own broadcaster and developing these individual formats that that they can start talking to their audience to and start building that that um that engagement and that and that's where and and that's where you know you can you can start seeing some some great results because the engagement is there and you've got people tuning in and constantly there waiting to have a message delivered to them.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So what how how does that all start to layer up?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and I imagine maybe it's back to some of your pilot campaigns and sort of showcase showing people what can be achieved.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there needs some commitment from the business if you're really going to resource at every level from a sort of the like kind of the the team to deliver it, the creative to sort of make it as impactful as possible in.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: compete in these busy channels, as well as the sort of actual distribution of it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Vince, maybe you could kick us off there.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's it's been it's ironic because, you know, of course this has been a difficult year for for everyone, but but it's also been um I think at least where where I live, a a wonderful opportunity to sort of change the conversation about resources when it comes to particularly digital platforms.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, you know, I I I hope my my peers in the industry have had similar experiences that, you know, when when we found ourselves in this situation, you know, at what, 13, 14 months ago, um I had the good fortune of being asked by our CEO, what do we need?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like what do we need to do?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I I'm I'm also fortunate that you know while we certainly didn't predict what was coming, I think like a lot of you know marketers, we understood that things were changing, that digital was the future and that we needed to think about our our resource base very differently.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had we were already on a path and and what what the the pandemic has done is really sort of accelerate our forward motion along that pathway.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so part of it has been sort of building the the sort of structural elements that we need right the the the web and digital and creative um uh foundations uh that all of this good content uh sits on and is available through uh the data component right investing there in ways we never have before um and also feeding back to the organization because that's the other thing right they said what do you need and then they said okay what good is it doing us and uh and that's that's really challenged us to be much more agile in terms of feeding information back to the organization um and I'm happy to report that's that has sort of continued the dialogue around how do we resource these capabilities so that we can continue uh to move forward here.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: On the creative side I think it's a little trickier um and the the way we've structured is to have sort of a a core team certainly some folks who are focused as an anchor around the brand creatively and then finding partners to work with who are bringing us new ideas who are sort of challenging our thinking and also helping educate us.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of a hub and spoke thing on the on the creative front um and you know for for us that's just been an awful lot of fun because we've gotten smarter uh we've gotten some neat ideas I think we wouldn't necessarily have considered ourselves uh and um and it's also demonstrated to the broader organization that this way of operating and this way of sort of having those strong foundations having new ideas coming in um at the same time uh has shown them and our clients uh that we're not relying on we're not standing still we're not relying on the same thing over and over again uh and that we're continually challenging ourselves to engage them in ways that are that are new and interesting.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to hear george I'm conscious that budget conversations probably are tricky trickier for you because you're like well you pay for what you get maybe from a from a creative point of view um but I don't want to stop you from sharing any thoughts you have on that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well I no it is it is I I think I think the budget chat is a really interesting one because that's why I think people do shy away from video content because they go oh that's gonna be really expensive.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right I think if you start going down this this social media um route you're going down a bit of a rabbit hole um but if you do it properly you're gonna get great results so I think um I I I think and and also if you're not doing it you gotta you gotta be thinking well where is that budget going?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because if it's not going on social media where is it going and is it being spent effectively um because I think you know what the last year year and a half has has kind of taught us is that digital is such a massive space and people want to be engaged people are people are very receptive to being uh to to to consuming uh content online and they're all a bit bored of Zoom and they're all a bit bored of kind of you know video video cast or whatever it is and so to to to engage creatively is has never been more important to engage to engage with someone in a creative to to spark whatever it is something meaningful in in your audience has never ever been more important and I do think a lot of clients really understand that and really register that um and on the budget side it doesn't have to be expensive you know that's why that's why we talk about creating formats and being able to template things to be able to tweak things and and all of that stuff.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just understanding you know what the client wants to achieve what their budget is and how you can tailor the creative to fit to fit what they what they need to need it to do.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: But but the other the other the other thing to say about that is that I think clients are sometimes unrealistic and they expect you know Sam Mender's 1917 you know single shot epic where they've only got a few hundred quid so it's it's uh it there's perhaps there's perhaps a little bit of uh understanding from the the client side education to to to to to really kind of scope out exactly what you know what budget looks like and it is such a murky you know like production is such a scalable thing.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it is it's a conversation we always have with our clients is is okay so the the these are what you could this is what you can get and and it's really scalable.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: But it's really important to have that conversation.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to I'm glad to say it's been a few years since uh we've had a client say to us so we're gonna do social because it's free as a very far um so I think that has you know to your point I think kind of thinking education has a has evolved and I think people recognise the need to really resort in all those different areas um but I do think the quality of creative briefing really varies and and actually sort of the strategy briefing can really vary kind of where there is not necessarily the clarity on on what success looks like what they want to achieve kind of really thinking about the audience and and actually what kind of content they're even starting with that would be appropriate for for for leveraging in into these sort of different platforms.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe we start with the creative brief George what does a good one look like?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: A good creative brief oh they vary quite a lot don't they?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think uh I mean I got a brief this morning and the client had storyboarded the whole thing and and uh and gave us the brief and I was like perfect great um but but I think mainly it's you know there's key things to think about and it's the audience the platform the outputs the budget um and you know sometimes a client will have a really clear idea of what what you know they've seen a bit of creative that they quite like or they've seen a style or they've seen something that that that has worked and and if they have that in their mind it's good to get that on paper because we don't you know you don't want to pitch something that when they've already got something in their mind.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's understanding all of that but but key is key is you know audience um platforms outputs and budget.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and then um I'm conscious when we hear of um of clients sort of having white papers starting with big tombstone kind of thought pieces and go right brilliant we'll just we'll break that up and we'll put that into I know LinkedIn or something.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely have a sense that that's changing a bit that the people being a bit more purpose led about the kind of content they're now putting in into these platforms as opposed to just well this is ultimately what we want them to read and we'll just sort of take them out into sort of little fragments.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that's kind of how you're seeing it there's a bit of a change now in terms of the kind of content that people are starting with and thinking about being very purposeful for the channel.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's part of it there's there's a little bit of um the the platforms pushing us to meet people's expectations that the markets are moving quickly.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so the white paper the 10 page white paper that you wrote a week ago might not be as relevant because especially in this moment in time because things are moving and changing so quickly.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we usually use those um uh one we we never let them get very long uh uh two I think maybe the longest was like you know six or seven pages which you know I I won't name any names but there was a place I work where they issued like a hundred page uh uh treatise on on China and I'm like gosh I I suppose somebody would like to read that but I don't know if I've ever met them exactly uh but uh but but you know so part of it is you know using that richer content um for foundational concepts um sort of saying this is our thesis our fundamental thesis about uh about an investment concept and why we approach this market in a certain way but otherwise we you know everyone is no very few people are sitting down and reading a a newspaper cover to cover anymore right they're they're reading headlines on Twitter they're watching short videos on on a on a on a a a news channel's Twitter feed or their Instagram um and even when they sit down to watch TV it's probably in shorter smaller chunks um uh because I think the expectation is that things are moving so quickly the idea of spending all of that time on a on a long form piece of content uh uh will have you left behind while folks are sort of you know moving beyond sort of consuming content at that rapid pace that that we all are right now.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And have you seen from a creative perspective George that kind of turnaround and speed and sort of need to stay topical and relevant changing some of the creative formats?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know I haven't seen it I haven't seen the expectation of creative change.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: The expectation of time delivery has definitely changed.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're doing things a lot lot faster.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know we're turning around campaigns in two three days whereas you know it was it was taking a few weeks but but now we get a brief and people want to shoot like the next day.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So and that's and that's you know that is that is everyone at the moment which is uh which is great obviously can I just can can I just say though that's that's something that we went through over the course of the past year was sort of working with my team to say listen we've got to turn something around same day 24 hours and it was a little bit of a shock to the system for for some folks and and um and now we kind of take it for granted right and that was a year ago right so the the the pace of change is such uh that it was a little jarring at the time but I think folks just sort of accept it for as this is the norm now and and this is how we're going to produce content.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say we won't sort of invest our time in sort of richer, fuller things that require a little more production uh a longer production timeline.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: But we also know that given how quickly the markets move, um we need to be out there quickly.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: By the way it's also been uh a great uh proof point for the fact that we might invest in certain technology or capabilities for one place and in no time we're using them in in new and different ways ways that we didn't expect um and figuring out how we sort of integrate because you both know I think the listeners know there's a ton of new technology out there, right?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Things that allow you to do stuff we couldn't even imagine uh 10 years ago um and starting to make those things work together to do new and interesting things for our audience is um uh it's really becoming the norm for us at this point and and uh I imagine a year from now there'll be a hundred other things we're we're doing and using that we hadn't even considered uh uh at this point.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah I completely agree with that Vince I think um I think I think the last year and a half has has kind of just pushed everything forward by uh like in light speed essentially um but we to give you an example we did um we started doing some interactive videos for the first time about a year ago um and it's it's and and that that I think is a huge trend like interactive content and content that um that the audience can can really kind of you know consume and and engage with themselves but um taking people on a journey an interactive journey uh where there is a a sale at the end of so there's a there's a there's an action at the end of that journey and it's personalized to them I mean that's that's a really cool thing.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it did really well for this specific client and now suddenly we're talking to quite a lot of different clients about that specific bit of bit of software.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: But that's just one example of you know uh a bit of tech that that um that fits into this content world that is that is I think going to become a huge a huge thing in the next few years.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant guys I've can't just I feel like we could carry on talking all afternoon or morning in your case Vince but um uh I I wonder whether we can sort of wrap this up just thinking about things that we perhaps haven't had time to cover um thoughts around I don't know sort of tips or mistakes or people that you want to point people to because they do a great job.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Any any kind of final thoughts for our listeners who I'm sure we've got a lot from the last sort of half an hour, 40 minutes or so.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for your your openness and your sort of ideas and and sharing your experiences.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just been brilliant.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe I could um come to you George for any kind of final tips or tricks or thoughts um or even just to sort of reassert a point you've already made and then Vince I'll give the last word to you.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think when you're thinking about social it's you know you you're you're you're broadcasting to an engaged audience and you know there's so many opportunities there.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think my main tip if you're kind of starting out on this journey is is to is to think about it is to think about the format think about how you're presenting yourself.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know even well particularly on social you are this is this is a platform that is an extension of your brand so whatever you put out is saying something about you.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: So so you know there's there's you and you have to get it right you know you have to you have to you have to um say something meaningful say don't say something for the sake of saying something say something that's authentic and meaningful and say something about you and your brand um and that's going to help people and educate entertain or whatever it is.
• 38:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah very thoughtful I think is considered rather than sort of rushed and just filling the hopper of content just because we've got to get in a post out such a crucial thing to to reflect and think about it in the strategy isn't it?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah exactly I think you know if you oversaturate your platforms you're gonna you're gonna put people off rather than you're gonna do exactly the opposite of what you're trying to do.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'd agree with all of that and and and I'll say something I I my team hears from me all the time which is that it's all about engagement.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like impressions are easy but show me engagement show me people who are sort of interacting and uh even in a split second taking that moment to act on the content you've delivered for them if if we can drive engagement uh then the content has done its job and uh and I think um to George's point that means we need to be uh really scrutinize what we're putting out there uh we need to be targeted we need to be precise um but uh but we can be efficient we can be really thoughtful and careful with our budgets uh and we can show the business in particular uh uh why this stuff is so valuable uh but it's really got to be about engagement and and I think that you know it's the wonderful thing about social is uh there are all those opportunities for people to interact with us uh uh that we know that we've never met before and and uh and I think it's only gonna get more exciting as as we get more of those new capabilities coming online in the in the years ahead.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic a sort of real sort of aspirational exciting kind of flurry at the end there.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you both uh both of you for all your thoughts as I say and look forward to talking to you soon.