Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Realizing Your Wife Doesn't Value Sex = Empathic Rupture

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Realizing Your Wife Doesn't Value Sex = Empathic Rupture · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, guys, and welcome to the dr. Psych mom show today we're going
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  to be talking about how realizing that your wife doesn't
• 0:11
  want. Sex is actually an empathic
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  rupture not a bait and switch. And if you change the rhetoric
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  that you are using to talk about this with your wife, then,
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  perhaps, you have a snowball's chance in hell of changing
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  something which heretofore, you've probably not had.
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  So anyway, before we get into that, please do subscribe, my
• 0:31
  most recent episode was on subscriber, episode was on.
• 0:35
  Why people add more and more to their plate to avoid intimacy
• 0:39
  and they don't know they're doing it to avoid intimacy but
• 0:42
  they are so spoiler but you probably want to listen to it
• 0:47
  for all the cool until that I give you aside from the
• 0:50
  conclusion and what to do about it which is of course, a popular
• 0:53
  reason to listen. All right so what am I talking
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  about here? And what do I mean?
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  So obviously unless you're in a coma by now after listening to
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  this amount of my stuff you know that women's lib Oh decreases in
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  monogamy and that women don't know, that's going to happen
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  because women don't know that, how would they know that nothing
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  talks about that, you know. And so I talked about that and
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  hopefully other people more and more are talking about that such
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  that women understand that that's a part of life but they
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  don't. And it's a big shock of Ernie to
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  women the pretty especially if they were previously fairly High
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  libido that their libido goes down with in monogamy.
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  But anyway when that Happens. A lot of men call it a
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  bait-and-switch because the men know even less than the women
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  actually. It's a race to the bottom.
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  Nobody knows shit usually. So, the man thinks this is such
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  a dramatic change from what it used to be.
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  That she must have known the shit was coming.
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  This shit must be on purpose because she had literally like a
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  different person. This like a pod person.
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  I remember we were doing all this cool stuff.
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  We were doing different positions.
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  We were doing lingerie, we were doing oral sex.
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  We were doing everything. We even had sex that one time
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  where somebody Could have possibly walked in on us.
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  She was into it. And now she is like, you know
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  the opposite of that she is like basically a nun and this is like
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  a Convent and so she must have known that that like tremendous
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  sea change was going to occur because it is literally insane.
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  And the woman is like what are you talking about?
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  Because the woman basically just woke up from being drunk for
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  like one and a half to three years of the honeymoon, /
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  limerence stage and you don't even remember shit that happens.
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  When you were drunk, it's like, you're like I dance on the bar,
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  me. No, I don't believe it pics, or
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  it didn't happen. And you did, you know?
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  And that's what it's like to have your adrenaline.
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  In your hormones racing during the honeymoon stage, you are
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  doing all sorts of stuff, your inhibitions are down, you are a
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  different person. You are the sexiest version of
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  yourself, and it is basically like being drunk or high and not
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  remembering anything. Not anything like you remember,
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  literally what happened. But it's like, you cannot Then
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  imagine that. That was how you felt so because
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  the change is so dramatic. Most women assume two things.
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  They assume a that it's obvious that like, it's due to the man
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  because like they didn't like do anything different, they think.
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  So, I mean must be that he's a dick that must be it, you know,
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  he's an asshole. So that's why, you know, I don't
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  want sex anymore and or they assume that this is, you know,
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  just the stage that they are in now and that they both must be
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  feeling it. Because he must be feeling it at
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  some level 2 and now they've moved on to a different stage of
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  life where they're going to have babies, or they already have
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  babies or like whatever. And even though he still keeps,
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  you know, pushing her for sex and like, kind of, you know,
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  rubbing up against her. She's like, not in that zone
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  anymore at all. So she's like, oh, you know,
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  he's just messing around. I mean he should just probably
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  jerk off or something. I mean, right.
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  Because she's like so not into it that she cannot even imagine
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  that he still feels. Same level of Desire that she in
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  fact used to feel back in the honeymoon stage.
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  It's like being. It's like when you quit drinking
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  or you don't or you're the designated driver, you go out
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  with your drunk friends. You're like hell y'all acting so
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  stupid for like you must understand something about how
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  stupid you're acting but they don't and you didn't when you
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  were drunk the previous weekend either.
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  So what this really is like it's not a bait-and-switch.
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  I mean I just cannot even state that enough.
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  I'm trying to hammer it home but like I don't I don't know how I
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  could say more cleanly. It is not a bait and switch, the
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  woman doesn't know what's going to happen.
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  However, that does not make it like that.
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  That that does not make it any less painful for the guy.
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  And for the guy, it's an empathic rupture, really, and
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  you could go back to my podcast on empathic ruptures and you
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  could do the reading on empathic ruptures and my own doctor,
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  psych mom.com, and an empathic rupture in case you don't want
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  to do any of that. Is when you feel like, Somebody
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  isn't there for you and they disappoint you very
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  dramatically. And you don't even think that,
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  you know, who they are. So the one that I always use
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  this in the example, is when the man doesn't stay overnight in
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  the hospital, when the woman has a baby in today's child-centered
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  era, even very different from when I started in private
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  practice on my own in 2009. When this was still happening,
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  people like I mean the guy like I mean basically like everybody
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  were saying we are pregnant now, I mean it's a totally different
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  scene. So very rarely nowadays is the
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  guy Not stay overnight in the hospital but it used to be more
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  common. And the guy used to think well
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  shit she has staff. Also, the baby didn't use to
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  room in but whatever. That's neither here nor there.
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  But anyway, so the guys to just go home and think, okay.
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  I'm going to get a good night, sleep.
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  She's has the bed. I don't have a bed and she's got
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  the baby and she's got the boobs.
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  And, you know, the staff is there to help her.
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  So I mean, doesn't she want me to get a good night's sleep?
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  I'd want her to get a good night sleep which is true, you know,
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  in the inverse situation, you know, if a man had like a broken
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  leg or surgery or something most Two men would tell the woman to
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  go home and get some sleep. But you know, for the woman this
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  is their first night with a baby.
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  She feels destabilized, her hormones or racing baby blues as
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  they affect 80% women, not postpartum, but baby blues,
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  which is milder and, you know, she feels very, very abandoned
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  and she when he says he's going to go home, it's like in that
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  moment, you might say, why isn't she asked him to stay?
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  She doesn't ask him to stay because it's like, she cannot
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  even believe that he would ask to go home.
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  It makes him like Like into a monster Like a Stranger, it's
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  like, oh my God, you you really thought?
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  Who are you anyway? That you thought that, that is
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  something that you should do. My God.
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  I don't even know if I love you, you know.
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  And of course, again she's feeling very dramatic, hormones
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  are going. She just literally had a person
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  come out of her vagina or however, she give birth.
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  So, the point here is an empathic ruptures.
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  When you completely lose faith, that the person can be there for
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  you because you feel like you don't even Who they are.
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  And this is exactly what happens when women sex drive a Bates and
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  they have absolutely no understanding of it and they
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  dismiss the man's need for sex. So women who are less
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  self-aware, who have no, you know, understanding about the
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  change in the beetle which again is most women, if not all, but a
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  woman who is less empathic about.
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  It is usually a woman who generally had a negative
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  upbringing about sex. She herself has Allo physical
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  touch, love language, and so far her, the high higher libido that
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  she had in the honeymoon stage was really unusual and is not at
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  all representative of her General personality.
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  So she will be more than condescending to sex as she was
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  kind of trained to be and her family of origin.
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  Probably and how she felt in general with the slight
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  exception of when she was in the honeymoon stage.
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  So the empathic rupture is that the woman no longer remembers or
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  seems to care that the man still value sex.
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  That's a tremendous empathic rupture for men.
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  It seems to them like forget about the actual sex, you know,
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  like not having sex is bad enough but you know, as I've
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  discussed most men like if their wife had a vagina problem and
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  her vagina was medically, you know, unable to be used because
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  she had cancer or something horrible, then they would stay
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  with her. So it's not about the sex, it's
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  about the fact that she doesn't give a shit that's the problem.
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  The problem is that she went from somebody who in their mind
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  seemed to care. That they valued sex and
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  evaluate themselves. But within the fact that they
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  valued it themselves, the man felt that it went without saying
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  that the woman understood without saying it that he values
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  sex tremendously. And in fact, one of his primary
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  motivators for getting married was to have sex with her
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  continuously because this is the reality for many men and they're
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  embarrassed to say it possibly even to themselves.
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  But certainly to the woman because as I said in my Eunuch
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  podcast, men are taught to be ashamed of their sexuality in
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  different amounts, based on their upbringing or, you know,
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  whatever. But our society in general
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  trains men to be ashamed of having sexuality, as a major
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  reason that they want a relationship but it is, you
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  know. And so if you're having sex with
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  a woman all the time in the honeymoon stage, you want to
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  lock that shit down, you love her.
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  Sure. And a big part of why you love
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  her in the pie chart is because she's sexual.
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  Oh, Open loving giving all this stuff that's related to Sex Your
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  Love language and it's like a big big reason that you want to
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  get married for most high libido.
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  Men, is that they want to keep on having that sex life and
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  women do not understand this. Even the highest libido woman
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  does not think, I want to get married, so I can lock down this
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  deck. Now, let me like that sounds
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  like, you know, something a man would like to think, but it is
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  not reality, even the highest would be the woman, doesn't
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  think that Because if she because Dick is easy to find,
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  right? Like you know if you're a woman
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  you just want to have sex that he's pretty easy.
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  So what she thinks is I love this man and we have wonderful
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  sexual chemistry but it's in no way like there's no like because
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  like I want to marry him because we have wonderful sexual
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  chemistry, it's only among other variables and it's not like men
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  only want to marry a woman because of sexual chemistry but
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  it's a big reason whether it's conscious or subconscious a high
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  libido. We do man does not usually
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  happily and you know like unconflicted Lee marry a woman
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  with whom. He does not have wonderful sex
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  because it's such a big part of what he want.
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  So the point here, is your wife doesn't know this at all.
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  So you have a real, a lot better of a chance to convey to her,
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  why you want to work on the sex life, add go to couples
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  counseling and focus on the relationship and everything.
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  If you come to her and very Honestly, say, you know, the the
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  only phrase that could potentially make your wife wet,
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  which is I was so stupid, man. Women love that.
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  I was so stupid. I've been doing all this reading
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  and shit and I was so stupid. You do you want to hear
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  something stupid? Yeah.
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  I know you love stories where I'm stupid, so I really thought
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  that it went without saying that a major reason we were getting
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  married was, so we could keep having awesome sex.
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  I know how that sounds to you now.
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  Now, I know it sounds like I'm the biggest moron but I truly
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  deeply believed that we were on pretty much the same page about
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  sex and that a big reason that we were getting married was so
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  we could do it all the time. Like we were when we were dating
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  and now that I understand more about how women's libido drops
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  in monogamy, I understand how foolish that was.
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  However, the pain that I felt when you didn't want it anymore
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  and started to be like, why don't you go jerk off?
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  Why is it such a big deal? You and you started to look down
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  on me about having a sex drive that I thought that you loved
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  that I thought was like one of our compatibility points, you
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  know, like that was an empathic rupture.
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  It really was and you know, it's been hard for me to get past it
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  and I think I haven't even been explaining it to you, right?
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  Because I've been thinking crazy shit.
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  Like it was a bait and switch and you knew all along that you
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  weren't going to want to have sex with me and that is crazy.
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  I now realize I had no education on the topic.
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  But what I realize now is why I'm so sad and I make my
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  passive-aggressive comments and be, you know, so key and all
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  these things I should work on, just to be, you know, a better
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  man in general. Are that the reason is that it
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  was a tremendous empathic rupture.
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  It seemed to go from one day. You were like, joking around
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  with me and wanting to have sex with me and, like, everything
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  was cool and, and warm and fuzzy.
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  And then the next day you were like you, you want to do that
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  again? Oh no, oh no, definitely not.
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  If you want that, then maybe you should just go jerk off in the
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  shower. And so, that's a really big
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  change. It's a sea change and women need
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  to be aware that they caused you pain in that way.
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  Most women do not understand that, I swear to you, you may
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  think that's crazy, but it's the.
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  God's honest truth is. I have never got a woman into
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  couples counseling that has really understood.
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  How hurt the man is by her lack of Desire, how hurt he is?
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  They understand that he sexually, Rated they think of it
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  like he's like a hungry animal that isn't getting fed but they
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  do not think of the psychological component, which
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  is the primary problem for the marriage.
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  When you feel that your wife just literally doesn't give a
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  shit about what you need. That is a tremendous empathic
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  rupture. Now, keep in mind, she never,
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  especially if she was low libido and especially if she's not that
• 13:56
  emotionally aware, she never was having sex in order to please
• 14:01
  you. She was having sex because she
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  wanted to have Sex. So, there is no change in how
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  much she has sex for you. She wasn't doing it for you to
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  begin with and she's not doing it.
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  Now, the difference is that she wanted to do it for her to begin
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  with and how she doesn't want to do it for her.
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  And so it's real hard for her to remember and to put herself into
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  your position and to think that that was a big reason you wanted
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  to get married and that's not shallow by the way.
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  That's normal if Buddy is doing something in your love language
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  that you love. It's the same thing as like if
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  you were always like super poetic and writing her like
• 14:44
  wonderful emails and text messages and poems and shit, you
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  know, during the honeymoon stage and then like, well, you know, a
• 14:51
  year into the marriage she was like, oh, it would be nice if
• 14:53
  you emailed me, that romantic stuff again.
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  And you were like that, was that?
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  And this is now. Why don't you go find, you know,
• 15:00
  like a guy online who can like, say that type of shit to you?
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  Because I'm See with my job. That is like, that would be a
• 15:08
  tremendous impact rupture and it's the same sort of thing when
• 15:11
  the man's continued. High sex drive is met with, you
• 15:15
  know, basically contempt disapproval condescension, Etc.
• 15:19
  That's the empathic rupture. So if you want to talk to your
• 15:23
  wife and change the frame, a always lead with how stupid you
• 15:26
  are, I really cannot overstate this.
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  And secondly, say the point isn't the sex, the point is that
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  you literally don't understand why.
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  The sex was so important and how it was a key driver of our love.
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  Literally, that is my love language.
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  You were into it. Same as me, engaging in your
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  love language was a key driver of you wanting to be with me.
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  Sure, I love you for more than that, but I never thought that
• 15:52
  would have to be put to the test so dramatically and so quickly.
• 15:57
  And if it did, I thought that it would remain that you understood
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  that I valued sex, but there was just some sort of issue with
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  you. Like illness or having a baby or
• 16:07
  something like that but that you wouldn't look down on me for
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  something that we had both. In my mind, valued for many men,
• 16:15
  it's a big Bond fuck. So I'll make it very clear.
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  She may not have ever valued your pleasure at all.
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  You're like no shit right in the butt.
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  But ever, like she may never ever have valued your sexual
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  pleasure. What she felt was Aroused at
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  that point, she had spontaneous arousal because she was a
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  non-monogamous woman till you get married.
• 16:40
  You're pretty much a non-monogamous woman.
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  I don't mean, she was cheating. I just mean that your brain
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  doesn't click in to post honeymoon stage, basically, till
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  you're married. So unless you have I been, God
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  knows how long of an engagement you would have to have.
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  But still the limerence stage only stops when uncertainty is
• 16:57
  resolved uncertainty about whether you'll remain together
• 17:00
  is pretty much resolved with marriage.
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  So anyway like you she was never You I'm she could have been like
• 17:07
  kind of into like making you happy with sex.
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  But basically, the guys who are with low libido, women that were
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  high libido in the honeymoon stage.
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  The woman was never that into making you happy.
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  She liked sex, she liked it. So for her it's like it's like
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  she was hungry. So she ate now, she's not
• 17:26
  hungry. So she doesn't eat and to her.
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  That makes total sense. You were like kind of thinking
• 17:31
  you guys had the same philosophy towards sex.
• 17:34
  You Words were really making up a lot of shit.
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  If you go back, you can see signs that you were but that you
• 17:39
  are both open minded and you were going to have this
• 17:41
  adventurous sex life. And then, you know, maybe you're
• 17:43
  going to be one of those couples that later on in your 40s would
• 17:46
  experiment with some weird shit. And whatever, I don't know what
• 17:49
  your particular trajectory was that you had fantasized about.
• 17:53
  But she was not thinking about that she was thinking in this
• 17:56
  moment. I would like to have sex and now
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  she thinks in no moment. Do I want to have sex and that's
• 18:01
  the difference. And so what you're saying is I
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  Felt abandoned by you not understanding anymore that I
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  still had the same amount of Desire that I had always had.
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  And in fact that you look down on it that is what I want you to
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  kind of understand more than I want any individual one.
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  Unenthusiastic roll in the hay from you.
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  Now I want you to kind of validate that this was a
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  destabilizing empathic rupture, not a bait and switch and
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  empathic rupture and this is what we should be working on.
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  A couple's counselor at a woman that can understand that it was
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  an empathic rupture and can understand how primary the
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  romantic and chemistry and sex part was to the guy feeling
• 18:46
  romantically connected at all. Those women can have epiphanies
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  about who like I guess this really doesn't seem like a
• 18:53
  marriage to him, you know? And like honestly they can
• 18:56
  either decide to change something and to kind of
• 18:59
  understand responsive desire and to understand getting yourself
• 19:02
  in the mood and to understand love languages, some Do go that
• 19:05
  route and try to work on their marriages and some are just
• 19:07
  like, well man, I can't help you, you know, because I cannot
• 19:11
  have sex when I don't want to, I just can't.
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  And I don't want to and then basically, we're over.
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  And if we're over, you know, then we're over.
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  And I'll tell you, I mean, you could ask other men in that same
• 19:23
  position but it's not the end of the world when it's over because
• 19:27
  you know there are other human beings out there that do not you
• 19:31
  know not have sex with you for a year or whatever your current
• 19:33
  situation is Anyway, that's putting the cart.
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  Before the horse, the point is that if you really want to be
• 19:38
  understood, you got to convey yourself more, articulately and
• 19:43
  less aggressively. The bait-and-switch rhetoric is
• 19:46
  extremely aggressive, not to mention completely inaccurate,
• 19:49
  as I hope that I have shown you. And if you come at it, more from
• 19:53
  the perspective of empathic rupture, your wife may may,
• 19:56
  well, understand you a lot more, okay?
• 19:59
  And so I hope that this was helpful to y'all and have a
• 20:03
  great day guys.