Latest / Black Girls Heal / #303: How to Make Adult Female Friendships with Danielle Bayard Jackson

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#303: How to Make Adult Female Friendships with Danielle Bayard Jackson · Black Girls Heal

0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: My job is to somehow make them curious enough.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll persuade them by hook or crow to get more aware of themselves and where they came from and what they are into and what is already there is just to bring it out.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what compels me to compel them and I will do it by whatever means necessary.
0:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk to the Black Girls Hill podcast where we talk about healer, intimacy disorders, and resolve trauma, and building a healthy relationship with first ourselves, and then others.
0:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Every episode, we will talk about advice you can apply today to break unhealthy patterns, and grow in your self-worth.
0:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Sheenella Shea, a love addition coach and trauma specialist.
0:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's begin.
0:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, hello and welcome to the latest episode of Black Girls Heal.
0:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I am so so happy to be with you today.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so so happy to welcome you in today.
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Today is a beautiful day.
1:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We are on our final series y'all.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So we just wrapped up the series before this one and this is our
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: final series where we are over viewing one of the most important set of topics that we talk about here.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And this series is going to be all about sisterhood and friendship.
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Barnum out of all the questions that I get even though I teach from a romantic lens.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And for those of you who just now joining me on this journey, I teach from a romantic lens not because to intentionally send to relationships as if they are the end all be all.
1:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But my belief is that there are multiple entry points into the healing journey.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of us have extreme depression, we decided to go and get help for that.
1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of us have extreme anxiety, we decided to go and get help for that.
1:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of us have extreme grief and we decided to go and get help for that.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: That was actually my entry point.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though I had a whole lot of relationship issues on the side, grief was what brought me into my therapeutic journey.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But despite all that, I choose to use relationships because I believe that they are a wonderful indicator and mirror for how we feel about ourselves, what we allow in what our boundaries look like, what we feel like we're available for the abandonment issues.
2:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I might still be there with the rejection issues, the wounds for us to clear out to be replaced with
2:30
[SPEAKER_02]: ability of security, of safety, of groundedness, of balance, of joy, and happiness and trust to give to people that make life better.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as human beings, we are built to be in relationship or built to be in community.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: For some of us, it's just going to be a trusted one or two or three, maybe at the most people that we will center our lives around and build life with.
2:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And for some of us, it is going to be truly looking like a village.
2:55
[SPEAKER_02]: looking like a tribe, maybe cycling in friends and relationships over the years and decades.
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no right or wrong answer.
3:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just about making sure that the people that are there are the people that add life that they give to you and they don't take away and also that you are showing up as a healthy member of that tribe that you're giving to people as well.
3:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They you are able to contribute to the relationships.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like I was saying, bar nine outside of the romantic partnership questions, I get so many questions about friendships, about sisterhood, about what to do between conflict, how do you cope with a breakup, how do you know if someone's actually a good friend?
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is all from people who we're all grown here, right?
3:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And these are still issues that we will work through and need to navigate
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: especially if they have some type of connection to unresolved trauma, which is what's adding the blinders to.
3:45
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I move forward?
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I show up?
3:47
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I be open and available and work through this, right?
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So with that said, today's first episode, our first episode of the series is we are revisiting how to make adult free melt friendships.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this would be a great way for us to start off because
4:06
[SPEAKER_02]: There are many of us that don't feel like we have the friendships that we want.
4:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe we do have friendships, but it's with people that we actually feel like we need to cycle out.
4:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we feel like we've outgrown them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we are the person who's always giving and showing up, but we haven't found the people to match that same energy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so this episode is such an incredible resource.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I refer to it often, and I refer other people to it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope that you enjoy.
4:32
[SPEAKER_02]: She gives so many great knows our guest expert, which I'll introduce after the jump.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's it.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go ahead and jump on in.
4:40
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So today I have Danielle by your Jackson with us.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Danielle.
4:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, how are you?
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I am fantastic.
4:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I am so excited to have me on this platform.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I have been following you for a long time.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: and learning about female friendships and learning about how to make them more full and rich and all the things that get in a way and I am so excited to have you on the podcast to talk about that with my audience as well.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an important topic of conversation.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad we're having the dialogue.
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, ma'am.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, ma'am.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So I always like for my guests to introduce themselves.
5:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would love for you to tell the audience if some people hadn't heard of you more about you.
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So my name is Danielle Byer Jackson.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am a publicist by day and a certified friendship coach at night, which often raises eyebrows.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But what that means is, you know, think about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can get support for any other area in your life.
5:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So why not for your friendships, which someone argues the most important
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[SPEAKER_01]: relationship you'll ever have.
5:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as a coach women will come to me for one of sessions to help them with anything ranging from making new friends because they moved to a new city or because they had a baby and they realized all their friendships dissolved
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll bring me in when they're having a particular conflict with the friend and they feel like they have nobody to talk to about it or when they're struggling with grieving the end of a platonic relationship.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So that whole range of friendship complexities, that's what women kind of bring me into support them with.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so far it's been a really fun journey.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's awesome.
6:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So your background is public relations.
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you get into the realm of friendship coaching?
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I always make the joke that, you know, being a friendship coach was never exactly on my, you know, vision board when I was like eight years old.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it wasn't a thing.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was actually a high school English teacher for six years teaching seventeen and eighteen year old.
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I often heard the drama between classes or they, you know, some of the girls would come to me after class and like a big sisterly way with their issues.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of helped them navigate it.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize what I was doing at the time.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But I made the foolish mistake.
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: of dismissing it as teenage drama when I left the classroom and I got into public relations.
7:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when I got into PR, I started to realize here I am having conversations with these high-powered women who are in businesses and they're confiding in me that they have drum as well or that they don't have any friends at all because they're so career-focused.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I had an aha moment of, oh wait a second, this is something that grips us at every stage of womanhood.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to figure out
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: how to navigate friendships, specifically with other women.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I went home one night after I talked with the client.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I was curious, I went on Amazon and I was looking for books on friendship.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, there was virtually nothing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And if a search result did pull it up, it was a book for kids.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, wow, is this what we think of friendship?
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's something kids need help with.
7:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I, you know, I already had my education background, but I went and got certified to coach.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I just became obsessed with research
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: surrounding female friendship.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've been doing this specifically for two years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been really interesting.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's great.
8:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you say a little bit more of why do you think is hard for us to keep a maintain female friendships for some of us?
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the simplest answer is that we've never been taught how to do it.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: If you think about it,
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The extent of our conversation around friendship is either have them or you don't.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't, what's wrong with you?
8:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the extent of the conversation around having friends.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we never learned how to do it.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes sense, you know, when you're in grade school, we fall into natural friendships.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You got your classmates who you see every day for eight hours a day.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You go to college, you're in the dorm, you got people right down the hall.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it normally really kind of happens when we hit around the age of like twenty five, which that's the age research shows us that our social network grows exponentially until about that age at which point it begins to decline rapidly.
9:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because, hey, we've prioritized other things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're focused on marriage or career, we're having babies, we're moving.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: and friendship kind of falls by the wayside.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's something we'll get to it if I have time.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once we get out there on our own, without the social backdrop of an institution, school or workers, something like that, we have an aha moment of, oh my gosh, how do I do this?
9:34
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I make friends?
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm having drama with a friend, we have a normalized conflict enough to know, hey, talk through it, y'all get some understanding, and then move forward together.
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but there's, you know, do we have models to show us how to work through that and and that it's totally okay to have healthy conflicts.
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, you know, we haven't really been taught it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we sometimes hear the echo chamber of other women who, you know, have distorted views of what it should be and we emulate that.
10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a lot of theories, but the simplest response I think is that we struggle with friendships because we never learned how to navigate them.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have a question this may be a really basic question but I think it's important especially with what you just said about people having different models about friendships should look like how do you define friendship or I guess more specifically what a healthy friendship would look like.
10:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I think that's actually the perfect question to start the conversation because I'm noticing sometimes when we use the word friend we're having two different conversations.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And friend needs something different to everybody.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Some people use it loosely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Some people are like, oh, no, you have to earn that title.
10:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so on the most fundamental level, friendship is about a healthy and reciprocal relationship with someone where you can show up as your best self and as your worst self and and
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're just eager to support each other.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes, I think we have a lot of mistakes that we make when we enter into a friendship.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we're thinking about how we can be served and we're looking for our people for us who just get us.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But you are also required to show up and be a friend.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think anything that's healthy where you can show up as a real self.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're both parties are eager to support the other.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a good indicator of a solid platonic relationship.
11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm listening to this podcast and I'm thinking, I really want some good friends.
11:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Where do I start?
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the first thing I like to say because a lot of people will come to me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The number one question is always, how do I make new friends?
11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: How?
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: How?
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's always some kind of qualifier.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's how do I make new friends as a student, as an introvert,
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: As a mother so there's always some kind of qualifier but it's how do I make new friends and the very first thing I like to start with is we often use the phrase make new friends synonymously with the phrase meet new people and the two are not necessarily the same so.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: making new friends simply refers to the art of cultivating something meaningful than other person.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And who says we have to start from scratch?
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So for a lot of us, we have people in our existing network that we've written off or whatever reason as a potential friend.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So we know a lot of acquaintances who we think are great, but for whatever reason we told ourselves, there's not potential there to go further.
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always like to say start with the people you already know where you have mutual friends, where you used to work together,
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And you already have some kind of touchstone and some familiarity.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there it's about momentum.
12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about opening up a little bit and exercising a little more vulnerability than you normally would, which I could talk about just even that all day because we get that wrong, what it means to be vulnerable and things like that.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'd say first start with how you can show up as a friend.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: where you think you're lacking, where you think your strengths are, and it does really require self-assessment.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to start there.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The second thing I say is to get really clear on what you expect, which again sounds fundamental, but I begin every coaching session with that question.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you even expect a function?
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Because right there, for some of us, I'm identifying problems at the root.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If you expect somebody to be there every time you call to have the right things to say, to just get you and you don't have to communicate your boundaries or your needs,
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Already, we're having, we're having issues.
13:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, get clear on what you expect of other people of your capacity, you know, to show up what your limitations are.
13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also, you know, finally, to get the mindset right that it requires time, you know, I think this whole insta friend thing that we expect is just is just selling a lot of our friendships short.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It does take time.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: to nurture something and get comfortable to learn each other's humor and boundaries and to prove your trustworthy.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes time.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if we wrap our mind around those things, then we're ready to really get out there.
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you say a little bit more about the fact that it takes time?
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think on this part from my talk a lot about our feelings of unworthiness and how
14:26
[SPEAKER_02]: We can get really triggered by outside factors that we feel like confirms the fact that we're not worthy of that people don't want us or that things are always going to be this way for us.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So what I make up is if someone is trying to make friends and is taking longer than they may want, they may logically know it takes time, but it just reinforces this felt sense of loneliness as they're waiting for the official friendship title.
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So can you say a little bit more about how to deal with that waiting period?
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love that.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so true.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And to your point, it goes back to kind of like, you know, the expectation, the not getting discouraged, not starting to internalize, you know, why aren't we besties yet?
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What's wrong with me?
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I not interesting enough?
15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool enough?
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and, you know, I want to look at that on the reverse end.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If you expect things to move quickly, and if they don't, you become discouraged, the my fears that were either ending relationships prematurely,
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: or you're trying to expedite the process and your divulging too much too soon because you're hoping it brings you close.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there are a lot of unhealthy things that come from an expectation that you should have, you know, closeness and intimacy immediately.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't get that right, we're gonna create, you know, more, you know, issues.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, you know, I do see women to your point who begin to think, it's too late for me or if this is taking a long time, what am I doing wrong?
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: or we often compare, well, she has friends that she's had since high school and I just met her and I'll never be as close as she is with those girls.
16:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we do a lot of mental things that even takes us out of the running.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I know it's easier said than done, but I do like to advise, find a way to stay present.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: If we had a good dinner and a good laugh, I have to find a way to be satisfied that we had this really good moment of connection and then pair that with intention for more in the future.
16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm like, okay, well, that went really well.
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Now she can be my bestie and now let's plan vacations.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And if she doesn't respond quickly enough to my text, what does that mean?
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm not interested enough.
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess she doesn't care anymore.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And all those narratives that we create for ourselves and then it determines our behavior.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're responding to a story.
16:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We told ourselves.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to kind of keep those things in check.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Friendship, but relationship, just in general, it does expose a lot of insecurities.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and when we get close to people, sometimes we fear those insecurities will be exposed, but you know, that's why, you know, we said the, the self work is so important so that you can show up as a good friend and kind of have like a balance mindset and healthy expectations, but you know, if that helps put anybody at ease, I like to share research too to give us perspective.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And one study that, you know, people in the friendship space tend to, to refer to a lot is a study by the University of Kansas, which
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Attempted to quantify how long it takes to make a friend.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, not everything's an exact science, but what they came up with is that it takes about fifty five zero hours to begin to consider somebody a familiar acquaintance.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Ninety hours to consider them a friend and two hundred hours to consider somebody.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: a best friend, which is like a jaw dropping number.
17:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I always think, like, hey, that's why so many people get close at work.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You're spending forty hours a week together.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You see them all day long.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is possible, but it requires intention.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you all go out to coffee.
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you check in with her again?
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you, you know, a schedule another phone call?
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you text her?
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking of you or sent her a link that's like, hey, you mentioned this in our last conversation.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you could appreciate this.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought of you.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sending it over.
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But how can we do the work to stay top of mind to to foster closeness and comfort and you know those beginning fundamental stages of true friendship?
18:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that is beautiful.
18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for dropping those numbers to quantify because I think
18:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, what is short and was a long time is really relative.
18:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if people have actual hours, I think it's going to help in a lot of things and perspective for people listening.
18:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are hopefully coming to the end of our pandemic.
18:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And so outside is opening back up.
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And but we're all dealing with the effects of the last year, according to whether or not we've quarantined or not personally.
18:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's affected the world and so something that I'm noticing with the people that I serve even people myself from a people in my own friendship group is that we don't know how to people anymore we do not know how to socialize as well as we did before even those of us who.
19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: make us at ourselves extroverts.
19:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you mentioned when you're looking for a friend to be clear about what your capacity is.
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if I'm someone who wants to, I'm someone listening who wants to build a friendship or build friendships.
19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just don't have the same energy that I did, pre-COVID, what would be your suggestions for starting with that?
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you were so spot on.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what you just mentioned that whole, I don't know if I have the same capacity
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: actually ended up being the number one response we received when we interviewed fifty women a couple months ago we asked them what's your top post pandemic friendship fear what are you scared about when it comes to reemerging and it with friends
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the answer's ranged from everything with, you know, I feel like I lost my social skills to, you know, I feel guilty about reaching out to friends I haven't talked to in a year.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I do that?
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But the number one response was, I don't think I have the same energy.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't, I don't think I can do it like I did it before.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, you're spot on with that.
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the first suggestion I give is to, you know, you have to be clear on what you have to give physically, mentally and emotionally.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next step and we hear it all the time.
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So we I roll because we hear it so much, but it's to communicate that and it's okay, you know, if I know that you know, hey, I don't think I want to fill every single weekend with a social activity anymore.
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's good that you know that now the next step is the next time somebody invited us something.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And you really don't want to go, because you want to reserve this weekend for yourself to say that, because the alternative is what?
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We say yes at a guilt or for a lot of us fear of missing out.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We fear that if I decline this invitation, then they're not going to invite me anymore.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to keep it going.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's okay to say like, oh, that sounds like such a good time.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually going to be in the house this weekend, but give me all the details on Monday girl.
21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a way to decline gracefully.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And to say, you know, thank you for thinking of me.
21:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll catch you all next time, because you know that if you go, you're going to have, you know, resentment toward them that you're there, you're going to be dreading it all week, leading up to the day, you know, I know for myself, I'll be on the sometimes I sign up for things that really don't want to go, that my husband's got to hear about it all week.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to go to this thing, but that's on me.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, confidently to say, you know, to know how much you can give, you know, I don't know who to credit with this because I share all the time and I don't know who made it up, but it's not mine.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But I once heard somebody kind of refer to, you know, especially for introverts and extroverts, you know, the difference would be, you know, think of coins having a certain amount of coins to spare every day.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, an introvert wakes up and they only have ten coins to give.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: and they give those coins out throughout the day.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the time they're done, they're out of coins or tapped out.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But extroverts wake up, ready to collect some coins.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like let's get some coins today.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we love being social because every social interaction is collecting coins to us and that energizes us.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, it's sometimes start there.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you energized and recharge by a loan time?
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You're probably an introvert and you need to manage that.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of us are doing things to burn ourselves out.
22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have time to pour into social event friendships because we're doing so much on the other end.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's important to have social time.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the digital world will ever replace in person time ever.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, we've got to pour into that.
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But you've got to know, you got to know your capacity.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to feel confident to exercise, you know, to communicate your boundaries.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then even with physical boundaries, you know, I now, I really just want to meet outside.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I can relax a little bit.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I still get a little nervous about meeting inside, even though I'm, you know, personally I'm vaccinated.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes I'll jokingly say, you know, I just got invited to dinner, you know, last night and I was like, okay, sounds good.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We're sitting on the patio, right?
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so, you know, there's a way to playfully say, like, hey, this is what I'm comfortable with.
23:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And that way, you don't have to have so much anxiety once you do arrive because you kind of set the terms before you went.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
23:16
[SPEAKER_01]: No, your capacity, that's important, but the next step would be to communicate them so everyone's on the same page.
23:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Something you said was so subtle, but I think it was so important as far as I lost it.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, I lost it.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll come back soon when I remember it.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did want to ask just about, is there a place sometimes
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: for pushing or not, maybe the right word isn't pushing, but maybe testing what you feel like your capacity is or how many coins you think you have, especially because you know this podcast, I talk most of the women who listen to this podcast identify with being someone who's love avoided, right?
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And so constantly finding patterns to create distance and buffers and relationships.
24:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And so
24:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just make up that we can have lots of justifications of why we only have five coins, but it's because we're so used to not really being open and vulnerable in relationships and we actually need to push that a little bit just to see that the water is fine.
24:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I don't know if you would agree with that or adjust that, what are your thoughts?
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really, you know, I have a podcast called Friend Forward and we recently interviewed a psychologist who specializes in
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: an anxiety and her name is Ellen Hendrickson and she said, you know, if you have some anxiety or you feel unworthy or you're not sure if you want to get out there, if you're seventy percent comfortable do it because a lot of us are willing to be a hundred percent comfortable to be a hundred percent ready.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And for a lot of us, that will never naturally happen because of experiences we've had, you know, some complexes we've gathered along the road of life.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you are able to reasonably
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: assess the situation.
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no danger there.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little uncomfortable, but there's no real danger there.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You do have to push yourself.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, research tells us that sometimes, you know, you have to do the behavior before the emotions catch up.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But we are like, oh, I'm not feeling it.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't feel natural to me.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, that's that's a worthy valid, you know, emotion.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not comfortable.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not going to do it.
25:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes,
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not comfortable because we never do it.
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We never exercise the muscle.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have to flex the muscle to get comfortable.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: There is space to stretch, but we don't want to stretch ourselves because I'm not used to doing that.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if I can handle that.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have to try.
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to try.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, whether it's with getting out there and meeting new people or even socially, it doesn't have to, you don't have to go from being in the house all day to going to the gender reveal party.
25:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big leap.
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of social things between there.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: There's, you know, chatting a little more extensively with the cashier at Target.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There is having a, you know, a few more phone calls.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: There's inviting one person over in the living room at your house to, you know, just have a single cocktail for an hour and catch up.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So there, it doesn't have to be jumping into the deep end in terms of like social engagement.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It could just be tiny little things until you work yourself up to
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: a room full of strangers and now you feel like you have to network.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when it comes to socializing, take baby steps, reach out to acquaintances and push yourself to do little one-on-one things till you're comfortable, sit on a patio, and tell yourself you have an hour to catch up over lunch, so you know how much energy to store up.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, really go from there, but you're so right, and I've heard you say that before on this show, because I listen and
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's just we have to stop telling ourselves the stories of, you know, well, I, this is the only capacity I have right now.
26:55
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've never kind of pushed to see, okay, I am capable of more, but it signals to our brain once we try to do more and we're successful, then our brain's like, girl, you did that.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You could do that.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you know, but how do we even give ourselves that the opportunity.
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, right.
27:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, and especially prioritizing.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So I still don't remember the exact phrase you use, but I do remember at the point, which you actually just connected to which.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: If we want to build relationships, we have to prioritize the time in the space for it because we're always going to have competing obligations or thoughts or narratives whether or not is because we're introvert or a mom or busy or we're traveling or whatever it might be, we have to say, okay, if friendships and relationships are important, I have to make sacred time to cultivate it because it's not just going to happen, especially if I always have things that I will put in front of it.
27:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
27:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny because, you know, I often get asked, you know, why do you only talk to women?
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And why do you?
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I can give you a whole list of of why, but there are some things that make women to women friendship especially, you know, special and unique.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things I like to share is, you know, most of us are familiar with that study about fight or flight response, but when it was first done, they didn't incorporate many women into that study.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So they did to get in the nineties and they found that
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Women have more range.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't just have fight or flight.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have tend or the friend.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we're stressed, one of our responses.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: is literally to go to other people, one more stress.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And they found that when women meet up, when they're stressed, being together releases oxytocin, which literally works to alleviate the stress.
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's funny because we have that stereotype of, oh, where are you going to go tell all your friends and talk to all your friends?
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yes, I am, because otherwise I'm going to really hurt you.
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I need to go talk to my girls right now.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's real benefit to making time
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: to spend with your friends.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know a lot of us, you know, we already put up the hands as we're listening, but my job, but the kids, but that's all true.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: All it means is we have to be even more intentional and and I know it doesn't sound sexy, but well, maybe now we have to put it on the calendar because, you know, it's not an episode of girlfriends where we just happen to all be free at the same time at the cafe every day.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's not going to happen.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, we've got to put it on the calendar.
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us were grappling with, you know, how can I find extra hours in my date has been time with friends?
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But we need to see it as, how can I lay your time instead of finding more hours?
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, if I know that I do laundry every Sunday night like clockwork, maybe I arrange to have a call with the friend.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say, hey, I haven't heard you voice.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss you.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to do a catch up Sunday night around like eightish for just like thirty minutes.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I like to encourage clients to put a duration on it.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: because a lot of times people are more inclined to say yes if they know it to expect.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you want to give them clear duration.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Sunday, eight o'clock, thirty minute catch up.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to hear your voice.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: There's new research that emerged.
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think late last year that found that just a ten minute phone call boosts our mood with a friend, just a phone call.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, we all are all capable of it.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, even the busiest woman.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got ten minutes.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so where can you lay her in the phone call in your day?
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But you need it to boost your mood.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You need it to de-stress.
30:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You need it as a reminder that you're not alone in this world and there's other people who care about you and so all those things are so important and we have got to stop seeing friendship as a luxury and a nice to have and we need to start viewing it from a health perspective.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a need to have and I need time with my friends.
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to connect with other women for this sake of my mental physical and emotional health.
30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yes to everything you just said, you know, sometimes I wish that I could just make words bigger and pull it just shout them from the rooftop because that is so important that this is a physical biological need.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think especially in our world, that is very male dominated and male focus.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of things that are considered more feminine or related to people who identify as women, like friendship, like kindness, like service, like all these other things.
31:10
[SPEAKER_02]: They get diminishing value and it's more, you know, we got to succeed and achieve and accomplish.
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: versus connecting is so vital for us to have a healthy and productive life, which is why we will go through life wondering what's missing, and it's because we don't have constant healthy connection to emotional nurse, nurse mental physical, nurse mental and comfort, and so we will make decisions from there and hopes of trying to get that because we don't have healthy sources in the first place.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, when I and I love that use that word nourishment, that's so good.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, I mean, it's true.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, they, I think, you know, I keep saying research and I need to be more specific with studies, but, you know, research tells us that the single greatest determining factor of our overall well-being and life satisfaction is the quality of our relationships, not your marital status, not your income, and and ironically, those are the things we strive for.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But the quality of your relationships.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I've had a whole podcast episode on this before, but you know, I know another talking point is often that we sometimes invest so much in our romantic relationships.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I have theories on that.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but it's because, you know, we live in a world that, you know, culturally for women were more celebrated when we're partnered.
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's that.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we are eager to find the one we put in the work and, you know,
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We stay after a person's betrayed as multiple times because we're trying to make it work with this person.
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't celebrate, wow, she has a steady group of solid friends.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: No one's throwing a party for that.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if that kind of contributes to it too, but there's nothing about even at the root of your romantic relationships.
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's friendship.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: At the heart of a good romantic relationship is two people who know how to be good friends.
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, we've got to put that first because, you know, to your point, it does nourish us in so many ways.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
33:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, one of my, my, I guess my next last final question is, I'm listening.
33:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to, I'm, I'm bought in, I want to find my job.
33:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was self-assessed and figured out what it is that I want, what my capacity is, and what my intentions are, and now I'm ready to make it happen.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, work is not option because I work from home.
33:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is my next step?
33:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is my favorite.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I often say, you know, I know coaches and therapists.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We are like, you know, everybody staying in their lane.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm quick to say, I'm no therapist, but I'm a coach and coaches what we specialize in is, you know, what do you want to know how to do firmly?
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We can talk strategies all day.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is my jam.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have a hundred strategies for how to make friends, but you know, I'll share with you four that I think are quick, easy.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do them today.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So the very first thing I like to suggest is to start with your super connector friends.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are the people we know who are super extroverted and they thrive on bringing two people together.
34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm one of those people.
34:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to go, oh my god, Maria, you should meet my friend Michelle, like you two will love each other.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fun for me.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, um, you know, we all know that person.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So one strategy is to reach out to that person, DM texts and just say, you know, here's your script to say, hey, I'm trying to get more plugged in and I thought of you because you're always with a group of people or always when something really fun.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just wanted to ask, is there anything in town, you know, worth checking out any events you'd recommend?
34:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So one thing at this does is it sets you up to get some really good recommendations of where to go to meet new friends.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But another possibility is sometimes these super connectors are like, oh, yeah, as a matter of fact, we're going
34:48
[SPEAKER_01]: This place on Tuesday, you should come with us.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And what that does is kind of give you an end and you're not putting yourself out there super bonerably to say, can I come with you?
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of times they offer that on their own because you said I'm trying to get plugged in.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes it leads to an invite.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason this is helpful is because if somebody introduces you to their friends, those friends transfer the trust that they have on the super connector onto you.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: and it helps to kind of expedite the potential for friendship because they're like, oh, you know, Jamie, okay, well, a friend of Jamie is a friend of mine.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the first strategy would be to reach out to your super connector friends and communicate your need.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But so many of us don't want to say we're looking for friends and that we're trying to get out there because we feel like, oh, I look desperate.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to look and we're all thinking it.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We all want to connect.
35:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just you.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just make it plain.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the first strategy would be to hook up with those super connector friends because they're really eager to put you in touch with opportunities.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The second strategy would be to find a way to integrate more routine into your day.
35:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is especially for my new, you know, my newbies with the work from home environment because a lot of us will stay home all day and simultaneously say, God, I feel disconnected.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I mean, it starts small.
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a dog?
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You should be walking your dog at the same time around the same path every day.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Because moms are out there with their kids doing the same thing every day.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The same person is landscaping in the yard.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: The same other people are walking every day.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Your creatures of habit.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can you find a way to create more of those serendipitous moments of falling into organic conversation with a stranger?
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, can you make yourself work at the same coffee shop every Friday at eleven?
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just when you're going to get out of the house.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But we don't even have opportunity to see other faces because we think it's either you know at home all day or we have to go to parties and there's other ways to create opportunities to socialize.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So the second thing would be to kind of create those routines for yourself to get out of the house, but it's got to be the same thing each time.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: so that you can see familiar faces and now you all feel comfortable saying hello to each other.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Strategy number three to find new friends is one that you've heard of before, but I don't think that we're doing it right.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of us are familiar with websites like meetup and EET up meetup.com and other online websites that allow us to find specialized interest groups
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and to link up, you know, one equivalent might be like a Facebook group or something like that.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So some of us realize that the strategy because we're like, well, yeah, of course.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's the problem that the mistake we're constantly making is we'll attend a meetup whether it's like a virtual event or an in person one.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll go to one of those interest groups.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And we say to ourselves, I wasn't feeling it.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't go anymore.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always challenge clients to go three times, three full times.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: for two reasons.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: One, how do you breathe familiarity with anybody in the group if you went one time and then you were feeling the sparks and then you leave?
37:51
[SPEAKER_01]: What this does is give you an opportunity to say, like, hey, am I third time?
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I can say to somebody, hey, last week, you mentioned something about your dog being sick, like, how did that go?
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, hey, you mentioned something about your job?
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was thinking about it this week.
38:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I know somebody who works with you, but I don't have that if I only go one time and I say, I didn't find my people.
38:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm never going again.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: go to start to feel familiar with people in order to get comfortable and to feel close and to have some kind of connection.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And the second mistake that we often make is, if I go and I'm secretly kind of waiting for people to impress me, like I'm auditioning them.
38:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I don't know.
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I leave, it affects how I engage.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I should be showing up when I show up.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to ask questions and get people's names and mingle a little bit.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it makes it easier to go the second time and the third time.
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm telling myself this might be the only time, it's directly going to affect how I engage once I'm there.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I like to say, give it three times.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And really show up and that's how you start to feel more comfortable with the people who are there and then later foundation for a potential friendship.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the fourth tip that I like to give, you know, for those of us who are not going out when about and and we feel comfortable staying inside right now is a lot of us are doing the, you know, the Zoom meetings and the Zoom happy hours or whatever, but we just show up and then we
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: leave that moment to that moment.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll have a meeting and then when we're done, we're done.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I move on to something else.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But if we start to train our brain to look for opportunities to connect, I think you'll be surprised by, you know, how many opportunities there are.
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So for example, let's say I'm attending a work meeting and somebody says something really funny in the meeting, or somebody asks a really great question.
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: When that meeting's over, it's not over.
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us don't carry momentum.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where things drop off and go cold.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm in a key moment and from that meeting, I'm going to send a one-on-one email to the person who asked a question or said something funny.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And literally just two sentences.
39:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say, you know, the girl's name is Sherry.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, hey Sherry, you know, get seeing you in the meeting today.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to reach out to say thank you for asking that question because I was thinking it.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wasn't building bold enough to say, so I'm glad you asked it because I was dying to know the answer.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So just shooting the message to say, I appreciate you.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for asking that.
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That is it because it opens the door for her to say, like, oh, my gosh, I know, right?
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they need to be clear on the expectations.
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not right.
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but it opens the window for us to start having banter and I'm also signaling to her that I'm open that I'm warm.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm friendly.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I see you, but I'm signaling to her.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: that I'd like more that I think she's cool and that's it, whatever.
40:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of us, we have our meetings, we go, I'm in it's over, it's over and then we go to the next thing.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But how can you extend, how can you extend moments of connections after we've all left the Zoom room?
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think a lot of us would find that there's, there's the material and potential.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We just have to train our eyes to start seeing it.
40:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, I love where you just said about sliding somebody's DMs before friendship.
40:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to add something that I think is important because sometimes people will slide into my deans and I can I can tell that they want to build a connection and they'll say something like we should like I really love what you do or I agree with that and you know we should talk more or something
41:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, okay, but they don't tell me what they want is this really open-ended invitation.
41:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got a lot of stuff going on.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's not really about whether or not I'm interested.
41:30
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not anything specific I can say yes or no to.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But if someone was like, hey, you know, I'm also in Houston.
41:38
[SPEAKER_02]: We should get together for brunch on Sunday at two p.m.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: at this place.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to go with me?
41:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's something I can do a specific yes or no to versus we should hang out sometime in Houston.
41:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't.
41:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I would love to go for me.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Help me help you, right?
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, that's so good.
42:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I always give a formula to clients for that very reason we'll say, well, just fell off.
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought we were cool, but she didn't respond or we were both like, yeah, we should get together.
42:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But then it still requires the mental labor of figuring out, okay, whose turn is it what to do?
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to figure out what we're going to.
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I always say, you know, if you're doing it invite, you need three components.
42:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to give an objective so what are we talking about once we get there like why are we getting together these days we're all you know a lot of us are a little more suspicious than we we used to be because it's like are you are you selling me on something is this genuine
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's your objective?
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have somebody you guys both know and come in or are you guys both from the same place or what do you want to talk about when you get together?
42:42
[SPEAKER_01]: The second thing is to have a date and time and then finally a duration like we talked about before.
42:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, do you want to grab, you know, brunch around noon for just like an hour or two, you know, get to know each other because I'm new to this city.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so, um, so that's such a great point because a lot of us have that complain about on the other end, oh, I reached out to her and told her we should get together, but she didn't respond.
43:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You're the woman.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You're the woman who doesn't respond because you're like, girl, what do you want to do here?
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, get more clear.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, so yeah, that those specifics are important.
43:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and then just to follow up to that, just because now worry that I might get a lot of deals from people that they live in.
43:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes when people say no or they're not available, it has nothing to do with who you are your value, but they just are busy, right?
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: going back to where you said about capacity, they just don't have the capacity, but had it been any other time or date or place, it would be on and popping, right?
43:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So going back to those those feelings of self-worth and how we can look for evidence to reinforce that someone doesn't like us or that they're mean or they're judging us or that this never works out for me.
43:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Friendship just isn't available for me to do the work to step out of those triggers to heal that so that you can be fully present and know I have worth and value
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And all relationships.
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And if this person is not available, there has nothing to do with me.
44:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It just has whatever to do with their status.
44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can find friendships with so many people.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: The world is open to me.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: My gosh, so true.
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had to think about, you know, how exhausting.
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of us are tired and scared, but how exhausting if, you know, your confidence in yourself and your worry is always going to be rely on what the last person said to you.
44:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This sounds like such a burden, you know, and so at some point, you know, for for some client who do express this, you know, feeling of, well, gosh, nobody gets back to me and all my friendships fail, and I guess I'm just not
44:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I first started to say, what are the things you know about yourself to be absolutely true?
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, nobody can tell you differently.
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They just can't, especially when it comes to being a friend.
44:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a phenomenal listener or you are such a giver or you are hilarious and you crack your friends up, what do you know to be true about what it is you have to offer as a friend?
44:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have to get clear on that so that you're not so shaky and wavering every time somebody's like, oh, yeah, actually, I can't make it to brunch.
45:05
[SPEAKER_01]: to your point, it maybe she just can't make it to brunch.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she is, you know, tapped out on her, you know, social range right now.
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean that I am not interesting.
45:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Where the, uh, lovable, it doesn't mean
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: any of those things.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just, you know, it's totally a mental thing and we have to hold tightly to those truths.
45:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So that we're not distraught, you know, every time someone's unavailable, which is just natural.
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about finding people who are available at the right time and who are willing to pour into you in a reciprocal way.
45:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Daniel, this was so good.
45:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I learned so much and I'm so excited for all the women who have needed this, who have been wanting female friendships and doing everything they knew.
45:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And their own power how to get there and I know you dropped so many gems.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: and you had resources available before we get into the resources and how people can't connect with you outside this podcast, but is there anything else that any final words you want to share or thoughts that you had before we close?
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my last little bit of encouragement is just that, you know, remember that it's not too late and you can find your quote unquote people.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally anytime you want, you know, if you're just willing to be a friend and put in the time,
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's the possibilities for friendship really are endless.
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I hope women hold on to that true because it, in my opinion, it all comes down to that.
46:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
46:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
46:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how can we find it?
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you tell us how we can connect?
46:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So our website is better female friendships.com.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The name of the, the business is friend forward.
46:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But everything's housed up better female friendships.com.
46:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And we recently launched a six week program.
46:52
[SPEAKER_01]: to equip you with everything you need to master adult friendships.
46:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So from mindset to making connections to keeping momentum and even how to exit a friendship gracefully because they're not all meant to last.
47:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So it takes you through the full scope of friendship and you can learn more about that there.
47:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I'm eager to connect with women even on Instagram at friend forward and I'm always doing videos every week on TikTok at the friendship expert.
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, those are great.
47:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And she gives homework.
47:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't get ready to freak out.
47:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Get your thumb right here.
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Just freak out.
47:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
47:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, well, thank you so much Danielle for joining us today.
47:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
47:32
[SPEAKER_02]: This has been great.