Latest / Unstuck Pod / Your Growth Must Keep Changing (Batuhan Ulutuncel and Jamie Schneiderman)
Transcript
- Jamie Schneiderman: Hello and welcome to the Unstuck Pod. Excited today to have Batu Ulu Tunchel. Ulu Tunchel, how did I do? You're being very Batuhan Ulutuncel: You did perfect. Jamie Schneiderman: kind. I I appreciate that. But excited to have him here and and excited to hear about his story, what he's doing right now, lots of really interesting things. So Batu, welcome. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Hi Jamie, it is perfect to be here. Jamie Schneiderman: So do you wanna just tell everybody a little bit about you and just like where what you've been do with sort of how did you get to where you are today? And then we can talk a little bit more about t where you're at today and what you're doing today. Batuhan Ulutuncel: The most honest answer would be I have got beaten in the markets, in different geographies, in different companies, in different verticals, in different business models. Now, today, my entire body is covered with battle scars. This is how I got here, to be honest. And looking over my shoulder, I spent over 10 years in venture capital field, investing over 600 startups, mentoring a lot more. And then previous four years in management consulting, lived and worked in Italy, India, Turkey, sometimes focused in US market, sometimes focused in European market. Sometimes most of my pipeline was from Israel directly. So I think versatility, versatility and persistence in what I'm it was the journey which dragged me here today. Jamie Schneiderman: Right. So and and let's do this. Why why investing? Like why why'd you go down that path? What was it about that that really appealed to you that made you go, yep, this is right for me? Batuhan Ulutuncel: I always wanted to work on interesting topics, work on exciting topics with driven people and I never believed I would or anybody would be achieving something fulfilling themselves by working 9 to 5. And when you are digging deeper, digging deeper, are trying to, you know, you are at some degree getting differentiated, especially towards the capetable of the businesses. It is the journey which direct me here. And during my MBA, I also got chance to do my joint leadership program of Aditya Birla and I moved to India and worked on a preproduct company. which was later launched and acquired by ABG to $1.7 billion. Having played a role in that journey shaped my perspective, my learning a lot. Jamie Schneiderman: Interesting. So so okay, so you talked about getting bitten all over. and and how that shapes sort of who you are and what you like and all the sort I I appreciate that the the mistakes or the challenges or the things that go wrong help to shape everybody. Believe me, I've got a whole whole lifetime of that as well, so I can relate. let me talk let let's talk a little bit about the type of investing because I and and the types of companies. So, you know, you talked a little bit about a wide range of different companies that you'd invest in and and industries and things. How is that beneficial? So I I variety for sure. How does it cause I I'm curious about the benefits and the drawbacks of of looking at that way versus being very focused in. We just do AI or I just do you know, industrial or I just do whatever that is. It like w wha how do you think about. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Well, I invest in people. And when I invest in people, actually it is more about what I'm investing rather than how I'm investing because when I look at what I don't think what really exists because we are investing in companies and we are looking at products there is a mismatch and you know when I'm also working with a client of my growth agency I always you know try to position things like this company exists to solve XYZ problem and today it has this product providing ABC in this journey as their today's attempt. This is how I'm seeing things and when I look at companies we are investing in, I try to understand where they are, where they want to go, how that journey will look like, what will be the challenges they will be facing. Can they convince other people to onboard which will facilitate their task, you know, untickling those challenges. Can they convince me or other investors or other partners to join on their journey to have reinforcement from other resources. So if the answer is yes, then I will try to understand what kind of a return will it leave on the table? If all looking favorable, I would invest. Having said that, of course, the landscape of investment became quite scattered. So there are certain areas I will try to, you know, not enter, not having a position. That is because I think I am one of the very, very focused people. And given the fact that I'm a journalist investor, I still believe there are areas I definitely do not understand. And I... personally try to stay away from all of this. for example, cannabis industry can be one of the examples because I never lived or I'm not raised in a country where it is legal. So there is no access and when it is illegal and there's no access, you don't come from that culture. So when I'm talking to other investors, they have a much better understanding of the industry. So why should I be the one making allocation? know, perspectives like that. These are the only hard criteria I have. Jamie Schneiderman: It's a very it's fascinating. And so and for those who are listening, you're in Istanbul? Is that okay. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Yes, I'm currently in Istanbul. Jamie Schneiderman: So Turkey and and so so you know and and and how much does that inf like your physical location? I know you moved around a lot before, right? So you've you've been to like you you were describing earlier. How much does your physical location where you are locally impact? Who and where you invest? Is it is it around you or do you go further afield than that? Batuhan Ulutuncel: I think it is more like the culture if they can operate in remote culture it will work perfectly well. Live in basement besides look at my growth capital agency. There are clients of all over the world and one of my you know very very very sign working clients located in Texas and other one located in Ankara here in Turkey. I Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Batuhan Ulutuncel: never had any time zone issues with the clients in Texas because there is 8-10 hour difference changing according to what time of the year but we are always getting aligned and working perfectly well. Last week we had a 3.30am meeting with a client in Ankara. We are living in the same time zone and we making a 3.30am meeting. After some point, after like half an hour I said well I am 37 and I am too old for this. So if you excuse me I think we have to release the schedule that because it is also depending on the culture, depending on the country, depending on all of the things and you know if you are on the right basis this is 100 % manageable and if you are not following that it is not always manageable if you are in the same time zone so I am not a true believer of getting aligned on the time zone or other things I believe with lots of with the right incorporation of tools there are lots of opportunities to get working together in a signed environment and unsigned environment and each has own benefits and if you can differentiate what portion of what is handled in which manner so it is benefiting the entire team better. We can even benefit from having scattered teams across the world. I have one question for everybody who is listening us. If you are not scattered across different regions, how do you fulfill the famous saying money never slips? Jamie Schneiderman: I love it. That was great. and no, and fair, and I think fair for you to look at it. And I think your examples are great, right? The no problem with the company that's on the other side of the world. And all sorts of, and I say problem, and I just mean it time wise or schedule wise. By the way, for what it's worth, I'm a lot older than you. And there's not a chance in the world I would be doing 330. 3:30 AM meetings. Like there's just there's no way. I I you thought it was bad for you after 30 minutes. I don't know if I could do it at any point. But anyway. so let's talk a little bit about growth capital and and sort of how you how you think about growth and helping companies drive growth. So, so what are the things? I guess here's the question. Are you jumping in with companies that are already doing everything's going well and you're just how do we do it a little bit how do we do it better? Or is are there situations where you're walking and it's like it's not going nearly as well as it should and it's obvious to you why. and then here are the things we have to do differently. So so give me some give me a some insight into what's going on there. Batuhan Ulutuncel: I think my only hard criteria is cultural alignment because even on the growth agency or investing, don't want to get involved with a founder who I wouldn't be working for. I mean, in other words, if I just close my eyes and think if I can become an employee of this person reporting to him. If I can become an investor of this company or this founder specifically so we can have this relation. So unless I'm having that relation, I don't jump in the companies. And I'm truly grateful my current partners. am currently backed by in the... partnership programs both Anthrophic and OpenAI which help me unlock additional value adds where I am currently collaborating with both startups, SMEs and large enterprises or my growth agency. So there is a huge variation of skills we are deploying basically but everything is cornered in setting code market, growing, capital raising and high-level optimization in terms of quality, high-quality optimization universally. These are the four areas we are working together. So we are having in some engagements, we are having very large and very open-ended terms like having growth, motivations growth. motions growth targets run for some geographies or we can have very very specific like this is a targeted audience it is a sub segment of a niche market that we are considering to enter what is the exact journey we should be letting our clients to experience in order to perfect customer acquisition we can even go after very very targeted things but I believe it is all about Understanding people, understanding their needs and understanding why that need exists, why it is not currently met with what is on the market if there something on the market on this manner. And after that, how people want to be, you know, consuming this solution. What is the best way to put it as a product? What is the best delivery channel? And how do... People want to get informed about that. What is the right message they want to hear? Let's imagine there is one target audience you want to say. What must be the phrase they are telling to themselves about your solution or your product or your services that you are on the safe side that they will be acquiring this from you? These are the questions we are trying to understand and these are the core materials which is shaping our go-to-market strategy, our growth initiatives, even our social media like on which channel, what message we are delivering, in which format, at what tone, at what length. These are all determined by our target audience who they are. Jamie Schneiderman: So what let me ask so so you're working with a range of companies then, all sorts of companies doing a whole bunch of different things. What are some of the common mistakes that you see companies make? Like w what are the things that they're doing that are holding them back? Right. You just shared your a philosophy and an approach for what you see that works and what you consistently look at. And I got it. But what are the things that you're watching when you're going in and taking a look at them and going, Mm, this isn't gonna work or this is what's holding you back? Batuhan Ulutuncel: I believe there are lots of points but one of the things which hits me strikingly is like the stakeholder management. Yes, everybody Jamie Schneiderman: Hm. Interesting. Batuhan Ulutuncel: knows who is their customer even if they are mistaken but they have a very solid understanding of who is the target audience, right? Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Batuhan Ulutuncel: But apart from that, most of the companies that... I come across not talking only about my clients but every company we are seeing that they are leaving lots of opportunity on the table because everybody is only looking after the normal journey, normal way. They are always looking at the doors and there is a one story about that when we were in Torino. with Techstars. One of the Techstars portfolio companies I was mentoring told me ask me basically if I have a nickname and I said no why you are asking and he said you know Santa Claus would be the perfect nickname for you I was surprised I asked why do you want something like a present do you have a No, no, no, it is all about you. Even if the doors and windows are sealed, you can enter the company from chimney, he said. So it was a funny moment for me. I believe having this understanding. mean, if you want to go there, go somewhere, there can be lots of... things, lots of different paths, lots of maps. You have to analyze, you have to find, you have to go try things, build. And given the fact that AI is, you know, adding lots of speeds to everything, lots of capability to everything, I don't think we should be trying same things. I mean, I generally work on a file and I always create this as a file, like the growth DNA, growth DNA of the company. Like if somebody asks one of my portfolio companies founder or chief growth officer like how we are growing this company, it is an entire one-page result which is the answer. So if I say at the current stage for the most of the companies, not everyone for the most of the companies, if you are trying to grow the company in the same way every six months you are doing something wrong. Jamie Schneiderman: See No, it's interesting. So it's like you have to be const it's like adaptability change. You have to be continuously challenging yourself for what's next? Where are we gonna go? Now there's an alternative to that, which is if you're changing too much too often that you're never sticking with something long enough to let it really work for you. But I understand your point, which is if it's finding the balance between those two two ideas. Batuhan Ulutuncel: It is more like we have a trial court and trial team. We non-stop continuously make a test run of alternatives simultaneously. And then we have a couple of... main motions, core motions and two to three supplementary motions to go that and we are also making small bets because just because one thing is working with some target segment with target industry with some target location even within the same multinational companies there are examples where we entered the market with their Germany office is not working quite well for us in their US office or looking at APEC offices even the cultural and human connection plays a very different role it's becoming a much different piece in your entire puzzle when you are trying to unlock entry in such places in such offices Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. So, where do you think where's the big you're talking about AI and you're talking about what it's giving us. W Where do you think where Where do you see some big opportunities? Just whether they're being solved that you know of or could be solved over the next you know, c couple years, let's say. Batuhan Ulutuncel: I believe it is after hard working because the harder you work and more recent it's work because getting diluted in your knowledge, in your experience is happens at a finger snap currently. So if there's any model doing achieving something more and I was in a vacation for two weeks and you played with it for a week most likely. I will be coming back to office with having lots of things to learn from you. This is the pace we are running nowadays. And I believe but there are core things we have to be very careful because there are lots of products companies that are losing the site in their development. So there is one question, especially this comes handy when I'm investing. There are a couple of questions I love to ask the founders and one of them is looking at large models. Are they giving you tailwinds or headwinds with their progress. Jamie Schneiderman: Interesting. Batuhan Ulutuncel: because you know if they are having headwinds this is a huge problem to my knowledge that flashlight app was making tons of money over App Store then when Apple added that as a feature nobody used that ever after Jamie Schneiderman: And your point around some of this, so just just so I just want to hit because I the flashlight example is a good one. Is it a it's it your point is does the advent of AI support the path that you're on? Does it does it make you better or is it just going to replace you essentially? Batuhan Ulutuncel: Exactly. Exactly. Jamie Schneiderman: Is that the I mean, and I think that we've seen so every I think there's a lot of uncertainty, confusion around exactly where that's gonna land, but I think it's a fairer set of questions. And I think we're at to your point, we're learning every week or two, we're learning something new about what is the whether what's going where. And those I guess who can predict it are gonna be way better off than those who get get caught surprised. Okay, so tell so so if people wanna get hold of you, what's the best way that they can reach you? How do they reach you? Find you. Batuhan Ulutuncel: They can easily reach me on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. Also on Twitter. Sorry, X, correct it. You don't change this name. Jamie Schneiderman: X, yes. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Yes, and I also have a very funny story. It was right after the era they renamed Twitter to X. I was talking about one founder and I asked, you active on LinkedIn? Also, we will check your LinkedIn and your X. And he was perplexed and he asked me why do you want to talk to my ex? And I said what? No, mean Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Twitter. They just renamed it. Sorry, I even forget sometimes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Jamie Schneiderman: Twitter, Twitter. I meant Twitter. Not your ex. Not not not that person. Okay. We'll we will make sure to put some links in the description so that people can reach you and and and get more. Because I think lots of folks would want to have more of your time. Anyway, Batu, thank you so much. This has been great. really appreciate your time and your input. This is It's been fun. So appreciate it. And to everybody who's watching and listening, thank you so much for for coming on and and we'll talk to you soon. Batuhan Ulutuncel: Thank you Jamie, it's my pleasure.