Latest / Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith / Back to the Basics of Mental Health with Ali Rutowski
Transcript
- Kristin Carver Smith: Hello, hello, welcome to another episode of Justin Joyful with Kristin Carversmith. I am in fact your host, Kristin Carversmith or KCS as so many folks call me. I am so excited about today's episode and today's guest. We are joined by Allie Rutowski and Allie, I'm just so excited to have you here. guys, Allie is an experiential therapist. a maker and at home herbalist with a passion for movement, which we're going to talk all the things about movement and art and the natural world. And that's really, that is Ali's world. And so Ali, welcome to just enjoyable. Likewise, likewise. So folks, I actually met Allie through our executive producer, Angelina Burkholder, and we had such a juicy conversation. Right, Allie? Yeah, I feel like we had a really, really juicy conversation. And I was super intrigued by Allie's background and Allie's therapeutic work, particularly in this experiential space, as I have healed and continue to heal from my own mental health crisis, the experience piece of it was so important. I remember being an intensive outpatient and doing art exercises, writing poems, actually doing like aromatherapy, like yoga, gentle movement, meditation, like all of those things were incorporated into our programming. And it was sort of, Allie, it was kind of like to me as I was moving through those sayings, I forgot how basic they were. Like it's so, so critical and so important and yet it feels like it feels really indulgent to be able to do those things instead of like, whoa, this could actually be our baseline. Like perhaps maybe it is a baseline for us. And so Ali, I'd love, you have such a unique background. You have done such interesting work and I'd love for you to tell our listeners a little bit more about. what your journey has looked like. Yes, and we're going to talk so much more about that because I know you and I both have all the thoughts on that of like, we don't want that to be the case. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Hmm. Shout out Sensei. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Mmm. Mm. Wow. Hmm. Mmm. Wow. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. All my love languages. Absolutely. I think, know, Ali, as you're talking, there's a few things that stand out. You know, I know for so many of our listeners, everybody's at a lot of different places, not only with their mental health journey, but also in their own career and figuring out, you know, okay, what do I love? What am I passionate about? You know, how does this intersect with what I want to do long-term? And so I think so much of, you know, what you just shared of you started out in journalism. And then now you've ended up in this space, but I think that through line of like storytelling is so, it's so fascinating. And so I, you know, I hope that as, you know, people are listening to this too, that they also, you know, are, are moved and inspired by seeing how you began in one industry and that has actually served you really, really well. So I think it's so powerful and such a great reminder for all of us. And then I think. Two, you said something that was really interesting. All of it's interesting, but the crisis piece of this, that you worked on the stabilization piece, right? And I'm so curious of like, I think a lot of us when we think about crisis, everybody has different definitions of that, right? And so like for some folks, it conjures up different images, right? And it could look like, it could look like 911. It could look like, ⁓ You know, it can look like a lot of different things. And so I'm just curious, like, how do you define crisis? What does crisis look like and mean to you? Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, gosh, that so resonates with me because I think, you know, in my own journey, you know, I think when I look back at my crisis, so to speak, there were a bunch of mini crises leading up to the larger, if that makes sense, right? There were so many yellow flags, red flags, right? They were happening along the way. And I think And that had sort of kind of happened over the course of several years, to be frank. And so I know that, again, we may have folks that are listening right now that are like, I'm good, I'm fine, everything's all right. And I was at that place too. I'm good, I'm fine, I'm good, I'm fine. And also I kind of felt too, like there's no time for me to not be fine, right? And so I'm imagining that you have encountered that, you know, probably many times in your work, but I'm curious if you've even encountered that for yourself. Mm. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Mm. Mmm. Hmm. Right, yes, yes. Yeah. Hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Of course, absolutely. And we're not talking about that. Yeah, yeah, and Allie, we will definitely have to have you back on for just an episode that's dedicated to that because I think again, we're not talking about those things and it's so, so important because I know there's so many women too who are like, I won't say that it happens quote unquote overnight, but for this example, I'm gonna say, it can look like I go to bed and I'm waking up and I'm feeling like. I'm not myself, like what is happening? I know something is going on. And as you said, it's the continuing to advocate for yourself inside of that when everybody's like, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good. And I wanna talk about that piece for just a second before we dive more into how you started ⁓ spending more and more of your time in the experiential piece of things and how we can help. some of our listeners like root into some of that and maybe even, know, what does it look like for them to practice this at home even? So, I wanna, you know, ask you about this, your, you know, your experience in particular, what were some of the like warning signs for you or some of the yellow flags that you sort of saw that made you kind of go, something's happening? Mm. Yeah. Absolutely. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm. Mmm. Mm. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, that's really helpful. And I think again, for our listeners too, having the context is always so important. And I think examples of these things is so helpful. I know for me too, that I experienced some of the things leading up did look like I wasn't sleeping, the eating piece. And I think we really underestimate. sleep deprivation, the impacts that that can have on someone. ⁓ And so there's a, I think there's a reason that folks are, you know, I think that like we're seeing more of this movement around sleep hygiene and you know, there's such like, I think about there's a lot of money being made right now too on people trying to like, ⁓ you know, really profit off of us being mindful of our sleep and how we want to do better in that area. so I think it's, you know, again, it's all about us really finding that balance for ourselves. But I just, hope our listeners, you know, also hear from this conversation, both from your experience and then also from mine, that it's like, please don't underestimate the impact that a good night's sleep or lack thereof can have. And it's not the end of the world, right? If you've... if you don't have one perfect night's sleep, but I think there is something to pay attention there. Yes, yes. Yeah, so the other thing that you said that I think is really interesting is the advocacy piece of you having to advocate for yourself inside of systems that were saying, you're fine, it's all good. And so I think about, you know, so many of us who may not have the confidence or who are sometimes walking into places and spaces that, you know, like, have systemically not believed, whether it's women or people of color, right, have not believed what we're coming to them with in terms of symptoms, in terms of problems. And so what was it like for you as someone who has a lot of language around what you're experiencing, what was it like for you in those places to be able to continue advocating for yourself? Mmm. Yeah, right. Mmm. Mmm. Y'all hear that? Y'all hear that right now? The therapist says that the therapist should have a therapist, okay? So we have no excuse. yes. yes. Yeah. Hmm. Mmm. Mmm. That's good. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah, okay. I love that too, again, like that's such a doable thing for all of us is that we can absolutely open the notes app on our phone and keep track of our symptoms, keep track of the things that are happening or that we feel like are off. And that's a very easy of, even if we're feeling not super confident when we walk into a doctor's office or a hospital, healthcare system, whatever that looks like, it's very easy for us to then open our notes app and just read from that, right? So it's like, we don't have to necessarily like, okay, let me prepare my keynote speech for my, you know, what all is happening with me, right? And so it feels like that though. mean, do you feel like that? Like, I know it's felt like that for me too, where I'm like, okay, let me rehearse what I'm gonna say. Right. And especially after, you know, again, a mental health crisis where I feel like for me in a lot of, you know, health care spaces that I'm walking into now, having to provide doctors with that context, you know, it's been the same where I'm like, it feels a little shameful. The more and more that I'm telling that story and sharing context with them, though, of like, OK, this is what I experienced. These were some of the things that were found after the fact. And it's like, it's actually gone a lot better than I thought it would. Absolutely. Right. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Don't you just love when you do find that one? You just hang on to them for dear life. I have moved around so many times and it's like, I finally found an OB that I love. And it's like, we gon' rock until the wheels fall off. So until she walks into the room and is like, hey, I'm not doing this anymore. Right? So it's like, we hang on to those people. So I love that you've said that and shared that. So, okay, I want to talk about the work that you are doing today and particularly this work around experiential care. What does that mean? What does that look like? I know that you had shared how you kind of moved into this space, but I think that term is still, it still feels like relatively new, relatively fresh. Hmm and why are we not doing that people? Mm, mm, that resonates. Mmm. Yeah. Mm. We are here for it. Mmm. Mmm. Say more about body scan, right? Because I think what we think body scan, we think like TSA. We're at the airport and we're going in and it's like, tell me what's wrong. Tell me where it is, point it out. Is this the body scan? Mmm. you Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. We're, we love it. you Wow. That's so good. And I'm curious, as you've been doing this work, are you finding that people have, I mean, have people done this before or no? Is it like, it, I'm imagining it feels new to hear about it. don't know, again, I think about my own experience and movement and art and the experiential piece typically hasn't been incorporated into. the therapeutic programming that I've received until I've either been in, you know, and for, I'll share, I struggled with an eating disorder from the time that I was 12 until I was 19. When I was 18 years old, I did inpatient for a while. ⁓ And that was kind of like my first introduction to the experiential piece. And then I also, you know, most recently experienced that in intensive outpatient and So I think about like my own interactions with the experiential care pieces of this. And, you know, I would hope that these really, really important integrative pieces that we don't limit those to, people have to be in inpatient or in therapy all day to have experiences like this. So I'm curious from your vantage point, like how often are people doing these types of things or do they feel relatively new when? when you see them. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Hmm. that one, are you breathing right now? Like I think that's something too that I find myself doing that all the time where I'm like, I've been holding my breath for two minutes. I'm like, I didn't even breathe. And so I will, you know, I'm very cognizant now of like, sometimes it feels like I'm out of air and it's quite literally because I'm out of air because I haven't taken a breath. And so I'll just pause. and take that, inhale through my nose, exhale through my mouth. I'll do that a few times. And it's like, just really, you know, I think we so again, underestimate breath. Hmm Mmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think the lion breathing that you're referring to is Costco on a Saturday, the week prior to Christmas. I think that is where that breathing might be really, the lion breath might be super useful. I'm calling it the lion breath, but really what we're talking about is being chased by a lion, right? So I love that you said that. I think there's so many listeners who can relate to that and who probably even just like listen to this and we're like, Yeah, holy moly. That's right. I haven't breathed. I haven't taken a breath in a minute. Okay, I'm gonna breathe. I'd love like, Ali, are there more like practical things that we can be doing on a daily basis to help? You described, you know, an example of like, perhaps like the anxiety levels are going up as you're in the grocery store. I will absolutely raise my hand and say like, actually really don't care for the grocery store. It does kind of stress me out. Oftentimes, like I'll I'll ride with my husband and he will go into the store and I'll sit in the car because I just, it's like, it's not my favorite place. And so I think that's a really like practical, you know, example, but like, what are some of the other things that we can be doing as we kind of navigate some of these, whether it's like, perhaps someone is going into a really stressful meeting or they've had a really long day, ⁓ parenting, right? It's like, what can, what are some of those daily things that we can be doing? Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Mmm. Don't you wish they would just say it that way? Like, you know? Yes. Mmm. Ooh, ladies and gentlemen, movement snacks. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes, of course, of course, the fuel. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm, say more. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Right, right, right, and we don't. We can say we don't, yes, yes, yeah. Now I think those are, you know, I love again the examples that you're giving because I think they're just so, like, they're so illustrative, they're so concrete, they're so practical, they're so doable, and a lot of times we get advice, particularly in this space, it doesn't always feel like it's doable, it doesn't always feel like it's tangible, and so I'm so appreciative that you're sharing things that our listeners can like literally do right now, even as they're listening to this. So I'm also curious, you talked about being a therapist who has a therapist and the personal care piece for you, like what does, all of us have different forms of personal care, of self care, and I'm curious like what do some of your practices look like? You described a little bit of like what your morning might look like and that. movement piece and then also finding that beautiful place but what are some of those other practices that you yourself engage in? Mmm. Junk Journal, hold on. We gotta stop for just a second because I need to know what Junk Journal is. I know all of our listeners right now are like, wait, Junk Journal? Say more. Is this like our nine-year-old diary right now? What is the Junk Journal? Like, that's what's like, I'm like, I'm thinking of the the Composition Notebook and there's like cartoons and there's like, what is the Junk Journal? Okay. Mmm. you Mmm. you Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that Allie and I were talking about before this episode, when we sort of first met and were getting into all the juicy things, we talked about that community piece, Allie, and we talked about how we can often feel like, especially if we are in industries or have jobs or careers that require us to chat with people or be around folks or and I would imagine that's many of us, and we're talking to folks all day. It can sometimes create this illusion that we have community or that we are social. ⁓ I think it's interesting for our listeners to consider of sometimes we can feel like we spent all day around people or talking to folks, but we actually feel quite alone. chatting with Ali about this and we were talking about, you know, it's actually quite common. ⁓ but I think Ali, you, seems like you do this really well of this intentionality piece of like your, the sort of conversation and you know, the socializing so to speak that you do with work is work. And then you intentionally pour time and energy into your friendships. And that's really meaningful to you. And so I'd love for you to just to kind of share a little bit more about that with our listeners so that they can consider like, is this happening in their lives? Like, should we be curious about that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Hmm. Yeah, but I think I'm sure a lot of, again, I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to that. Hmm. Hmm, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ well, I so appreciate you sharing that with us and with our listeners, because I think, again, there's a lot of folks, and I know I've struggled with that myself as well. ⁓ And I'm a work in progress as well. I'm trying to figure that out too. So I love it. The last question that I have for you before we kind of get into just a couple of fun, rapid fire questions is... What's like, how can listeners advocate for themselves? Like as they're building their own care practices, like what, you know, what are some of the words that you would, would offer them as they're trying to figure out like how they build balance and how they build care into their lives in a, in a sustainable way, but also like really intentionally. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, I love that connected versus chaotic. Like that's so, again, so easy to remember, so practical. And again, I love that too of what's taking away from you, what's adding value for you. These are, again, like incredibly doable and really, really important questions to be asking yourselves. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Mm. So powerful, so helpful. We are so grateful to have you. All right. So we talked a little bit about resources. What TV shows or books are you obsessed with right now? Like what's on your nightstand? What's on your watch list? Mmm. Of course. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Yeah. ⁓ mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Wow, I love that. Okay, definitely something that we've got to add to our list. If you haven't already seen it, you haven't already watched it, flow, we've got to it to the list. Okay, what's your go-to resource or move when you feel overstimulated? Okay. Mmm. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ I love that. Mmm. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ it's so good. So helpful. ⁓ Okay. And so our podcast is stress and joyful. I'm so curious, like who is a justice champion or advocate? They are always, we know that you're not on social media, but if you could hit repost on who would it be? Mm-hmm. Ha Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm, I love that. I love that. And I just, again, I also love the space. Like, I think all of us have people, right, that like we think of when we think of like, this is who embodies justice and joy. This is who embodies justice, right? And so being able to like, say their names here, being able to like lift them up, to platform them, to amplify them, their work, just so good, so juicy. ⁓ Speaking of joy. Last question, what's something that's bringing you joy right now? Mmm. Wow. I love that with your junk journal. Have you been like, are you looking back on, on days right now? And are like, this is what this day was. This is like, You Like proud parent, right? ⁓ my gosh, I love that. Well, Allie, thank you so much for being here with us today. Where can folks learn more about you and your work? Since we know that you're not on social, we know you're on YouTube, but where can folks learn more about you and your work? We love it. Ugh, we've got- So we're definitely gonna have to add that to our nightstands. Yes, we love that. And also, know, Ali, I love modeling that you're modeling right now of you don't have to be online. You don't have to be, you know, quote unquote, digitally plugged in in that way to like do really meaningful world changing work. And I think sometimes, you know, our listeners, myself included. can feel like if we're not in all of these places, like, you know, it's like both a little bit of the FOMO, but it's also a little bit like, ⁓ my gosh, am I like, am I really helping people? And you're just such proof of like, there's a million different ways to do it, and you're definitely doing it. So thank you for modeling that for us. All right, well, Allie, we can't wait to have you back on to talk more about women's health in the future. So thank you again for joining us on this episode of Just and Joyful.