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332- Jon Scarpa on IT Leadership Values and Community Building Part 3 · You've Been Heard

• 0:04
  Speaker A: One other thing we jump back on because we're still with John and I just want, maybe we could just. This could just be like a little sub, like it, maybe like a, I don't know, five minute thing, a little ten minute thing. So, yeah, curiosity, professional advancement. I, I just want your thoughts on the rest of our values just to see if they align with you and if there's anything.
• 0:20
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 0:20
  Speaker C: And I can go over any of the other stuff again if you'd like. So, you know, pursuit of excellence. Right. There is a side of IT where responsiveness is everything.
• 0:32
  Speaker B: Right.
• 0:33
  Speaker C: You need to be extremely. We're in a service industry and our IT team needs to be extremely responsive.
• 0:42
  Speaker B: We need to be serving our customer.
• 0:44
  Speaker C: Which is our internal customer.
• 0:46
  Speaker B: For some IT organizations that might be your external customer.
• 0:49
  Speaker C: But regardless, part of excellence is always being extremely responsive, doing what needs to be done to get the job done.
• 0:57
  Speaker B: And satisfy and meet the need.
• 0:59
  Speaker C: But the other part of it, which I think brings out excellence even further, is the ability to plan. You need to be able to look at, you know, either your external customer.
• 1:12
  Speaker B: If you're an IT firm and say.
• 1:14
  Speaker C: You know, where does that external customer need to be in the next year, next two years, next five years, next 10 years to meet their goals? And likewise, if it's, if you're an.
• 1:26
  Speaker B: Internal IT department, it's the exact same question. And so you really want to understand.
• 1:32
  Speaker C: What do the, what does the executive team want?
• 1:36
  Speaker B: What does the executionary teams want, meaning your directors and employees? How do those align with kind of the corporate goals? And how are the solutions that you're going to provide help align with those corporate goals? And only if you truly plan it strategically will you reach the echelon of excellence.
• 1:58
  Speaker C: So again, it's both the, the service aspect of IT and the alignment of.
• 2:05
  Speaker B: The planning and strategic aspect of IT.
• 2:07
  Speaker C: To meet corporate objectives where you'll truly.
• 2:10
  Speaker B: Provide excellence in the organization.
• 2:13
  Speaker A: Knowledge sharing, I think that's kind of like, oh, absolutely. I don't even know if we need to go over that, but I think it should be a value.
• 2:21
  Speaker C: No, knowledge sharing is a, is a.
• 2:24
  Speaker A: Absolutely key, as opposed to selfishly keeping the keys to the castle and locking down everything. And if you leave and quit, no one knows anything. What was going on. Maybe.
• 2:34
  Speaker C: I don't think IT people do this consciously.
• 2:37
  Speaker B: At least I hope not.
• 2:39
  Speaker C: Right. I always assume the best in people, but I think subconsciously IT people sometimes are not the best at sharing. And I don't think that that is purposeful. I think that that is Just human. Like they don't have time or feeling. They just don't make it a priority.
• 3:01
  Speaker A: I think it's human nature to take. I think it's human nature that the first thing that 80% of mankind is thinking, what's in it for me when they go into a situation, I think that's kind of human nature. Right? So. And then for us, for. And what's the biggest problem in communities? People going and just taking and taking and taking and not. Right. So one of the main purposes and why we wanted to make this, because when I did a lot of market research, a lot of the complaints about communities or networking groups, et cetera, is that it's not relevant. Or there's either one dominating ego that talks the whole time, or people come on, they're on a lesser level and they're just coming to take and they're not giving back. So I think the knowledge sharing, or having this ability to first listen and understand and then respond, right, you know, the old covey stuff, you know, or. And this focusing on an abundance mentality that, you know, there's enough, there's more than enough in the world, right. Is like, I think important as a. To. To constantly remind people, right? Like, give, give, give, give, give. Because if you just help enough other people get what they want, you in return will get what you want.
• 4:14
  Speaker C: Yeah. Phil, I think you hit a lot of great points on the head. I mean, first and foremost, there is.
• 4:21
  Speaker B: No shortage of knowledge or work out there in the world, and you need to always operate with that abundance mentality.
• 4:29
  Speaker C: There's plenty to go around.
• 4:31
  Speaker B: Right?
• 4:31
  Speaker C: You know, the second thing you mentioned, kind of human nature. Again, I don't think anybody does it intentionally, but I think people need to.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: Flip the script in their mind and they need to make sharing of knowledge a priority.
• 4:46
  Speaker C: That has to be a priority not.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Only within it, but within all of business in general.
• 4:52
  Speaker C: Because I'll tell you the number one thing I see that stunts a IT.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: Team or a business's growth is the.
• 5:00
  Speaker C: Lack of proper documentation and knowledge sharing.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: That is the number one thing I.
• 5:06
  Speaker C: Come into whenever I've joined an organization.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: Usually one of the key things that.
• 5:13
  Speaker C: I see is, and there are many organizations that are better at this than others. And I want to be clear that I have every respect for every company.
• 5:22
  Speaker B: I've ever worked for. I've worked for the most amazing companies.
• 5:26
  Speaker C: I have the greatest people, you know, great processes, you know, really, really good companies. But what I will say is they.
• 5:34
  Speaker A: Want to be in business if they didn't have something.
• 5:37
  Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. But usually I come in at a time where companies in a transition from what I'll call a small company to a medium or size company, and the.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: Big thing that's holding them back from.
• 5:50
  Speaker C: Taking them to the next level is often they've done a poor job of.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: Documenting their processes and procedures.
• 5:56
  Speaker C: And that includes within it and outside of it. And a lot of that is either.
• 6:02
  Speaker B: A lack of time or effort or.
• 6:04
  Speaker C: Making it a priority as well as, as you say, some people perhaps not.
• 6:09
  Speaker B: Consciously but subconsciously holding all of the.
• 6:12
  Speaker C: Keys to the kingdom. And the first thought that comes up is, you know, that the old joke, what if they get hit by a bus?
• 6:19
  Speaker B: Right.
• 6:20
  Speaker C: Like what happens when your director of it, your CIO is out?
• 6:25
  Speaker B: What happens when your key programmer is not available?
• 6:30
  Speaker C: What happens when the guy whose sole job is this responsibility is, you know, had to take a leave of absence because of, you know, XYZ reason? So, you know, there always will be process owners, but those process owners, I think the number one responsibility they should have as a process owner is documenting their process and knowledge. Sharing their process like that should almost come above their ability to deliver on that process. Like, don't get me wrong, they have to be a key, you know, they've got to be able to deliver results. But one of the key metrics on.
• 7:08
  Speaker B: How you should measure the way that they deliver results is how well they.
• 7:11
  Speaker C: Document it and how well they're able.
• 7:13
  Speaker B: To share the information.
• 7:14
  Speaker C: So I build a team first mentality where we share everything, we document everything procedurally. And you know, one of our key things with our weekly IT meetings is to share what we've been working on.
• 7:32
  Speaker B: What we've learned from that and how we're documenting it and making it better.
• 7:38
  Speaker C: On top of the regular metrics at.
• 7:42
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• 8:32
  Speaker A: I also see ownership. I just wrote down ownership in that thought because I figured why would someone not do that? Because they might not really take ownership or care about their company. They may be making a lot of complaints and oh, upper management doesn't appreciate my job. So I'm just going to.
• 8:47
  Speaker C: Right.
• 8:47
  Speaker A: I'm just going to get the job done and move on. Right. So why would someone not talking about. Because I just got to get the job done and move on and get my paycheck and clock in and clock out and see you later, buddy. Right.
• 8:57
  Speaker C: So yeah, ownership and personal responsibility. You know, there's a. There's a good old classic saying that, you know, is. Goes something along the lines of focus.
• 9:08
  Speaker B: On the things you can change and not the things you can't.
• 9:11
  Speaker C: You know, you can't. You cannot change what XYZ person is doing, but you can influence it by how you respond and that's what you own.
• 9:24
  Speaker B: Right?
• 9:24
  Speaker C: So you need to focus every day on how can I, you know, continue to improve myself? How can I continue to improve the organization? How can I take ownership of the.
• 9:39
  Speaker B: Tasks that I've given, no matter what my role is within it or within.
• 9:42
  Speaker C: The organization and if I truly take ownership, operate with a mentality of excellence.
• 9:50
  Speaker B: And operate on what can I deliver.
• 9:53
  Speaker C: To improve, you know, this deliverable that I have. Improve myself as part of that deliverable and improve the company as part of that deliverable that will always lead you to success.
• 10:07
  Speaker A: Let me ask you because we could, we could talk for hours. Is there anything that shouldn't be on this list or there's anything that doesn't ring true with you or anything that doesn't kind of just like, you know, like. Yeah, man, that. That's definitely it. Is there anything that's just kind of.
• 10:22
  Speaker C: Like, eh, you know, being honest? This is one of the best lists.
• 10:25
  Speaker B: I've seen for core values ever. Props to you for putting this together.
• 10:31
  Speaker C: Regardless of whether testimonial.
• 10:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is one of the best.
• 10:37
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean regardless of whether this was, you know, it specific or just a company value statement, this is. Wow, impressive. I will just say that not to, not to float your boat too much, but.
• 10:56
  Speaker A: And I, if you don't mind, I would love to use that because. And the reason why I'm. And I'm not going to be. Look, I'm. I'm a dude that stayed back in first grade. Okay.
• 11:06
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: I fell in like many of these guys into the role that I'm in. Right. I was pre med. I realized there' there's no way I'm doing. I hate it. I was like inorganic chemistry was enough for me. Biology was enough for me. Screw this. I'm going to go to creative writing. Okay, so this isn't me. This is you. This is you, this is everybody else. This is the tribe. This is the hive mindset or hive mind so to speak. This is 320 plus interviews with IT directors since 2015. Teen that I have been just the nature of that has made me really kind of get under the skin and like really kind of become like really understand what you guys do. That's why. So this isn't me, this is you. I'm just the facilitator that that's all I'm doing. Right. I'm facilitating the conversations. I decided back in 2015 that you meaning IT guy it and I don't mean IT guy in like a, like a negative way. I'm just saying like mid market IT leader guy that knows what an IP address is. Right. I decided that you were the people I loved and you were the people I wanted to work with. I was sick and tired of small business owners that worked with MSPs. And the MSPs were complaining that the small business owners had no, no care for. They just were trying to save 50 bucks on their it. I had no desire to, you know, big massive corporate IT where you're just like a number. And I myself had been upwards of C level director and other massive companies and I always loved the mid market startup. I loved the companies that I worked for that either went out of business, went bankrupt, sold to another company or grew to another company. And I loved growing other companies and seeing them get sold and you know, so I realized that I loved being in the trenches of like growth and change and not in massive corporate like massive corporate companies where you're just kind of like, I don't know, an order taker or you know, employee number 1596, you know, like whatever that was.
• 13:29
  Speaker C: Yeah. So this is, I think there's value. How do I put it this way?
• 13:36
  Speaker B: And recognizing that every role in a.
• 13:39
  Speaker C: Company has a very specific purpose and value. So you know, when you talk about a business owner or a CEO, you know, your, your C suite, their number one role is to drive revenue right above anything else and yes.
• 13:59
  Speaker B: And lower costs.
• 14:00
  Speaker C: That's the purpose of business, that is.
• 14:03
  Speaker B: Their role and that's their focus and.
• 14:05
  Speaker C: The purpose of a business. So you may think that they're being short sighted at times and that could be true sometimes, but that is their role, that's what their purpose is, they're trying to do in it. Our roles are data integrity, data security, data optimization, data flow. When you think of networking and infrastructure, how fast does the data get from point A to point B? You know, automation.
• 14:41
  Speaker B: User training, process and procedure.
• 14:44
  Speaker C: I mean often I think of us.
• 14:45
  Speaker B: As process engineers because we're always trying.
• 14:47
  Speaker C: To improve process for people. So again, every hat in a company, whether it is, you know, the AP clerk that just got hired, you know.
• 15:02
  Speaker B: The warehouse person who drives a forklift.
• 15:06
  Speaker C: You know, the person in the lab doing samples, every role has value. And I think you the one of.
• 15:15
  Speaker B: The most important things you can do.
• 15:16
  Speaker C: In it is recognize that back to your core risk of values.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: I purposely said, wow, impressive.
• 15:23
  Speaker C: Because I believe there's value, often using simple language. And I believe there's like values are everything. I literally, there's a few things I print out and post on my wall in my home office and my office at work.
• 15:43
  Speaker B: And one of those things is usually.
• 15:44
  Speaker C: The company mission statement and company values. And then another one is like my.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: Kind of internal department values because I.
• 15:52
  Speaker C: Want to read them every day and that's what I need to start my day. Not that I, not that I need to like read them word for word every day, but they need to be top of mind. It needs, there needs to be core values that are driving what I'm working on every day. And so I've always got to have.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: A way to integrate those core values.
• 16:15
  Speaker C: Into what I'm trying to accomplish.
• 16:17
  Speaker A: So selfishly doing the opposite of what I said, which is I'm taking and being very selfish right now, but I need to hear what I just, I want just real quick and I, to me, I have a lot of edits that are, that are happening to the vision and purpose, but maybe just skim it real quick, skim it real quick and tell me if this is the type of community that you would want to join.
• 16:41
  Speaker C: Absolutely. I think you're hitting on a lot of core things which are, you know.
• 16:47
  Speaker B: You'Re building a community, you want to nurture that community.
• 16:50
  Speaker C: You know, you want to build trust, feedback and growth.
• 16:54
  Speaker B: Candid conversations.
• 16:55
  Speaker C: I love, love that phrasing there. And again, the core values that you have here are, are spot on.
• 17:02
  Speaker A: Where did I have candid conversations? Now I need to know.
• 17:06
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's possible I may have ad libbed that specific part.
• 17:10
  Speaker A: No, it was there somewhere, I believe.
• 17:13
  Speaker C: Yeah. Anyways, you know, again, I kind of skimmed it and then gave My Reader's Digest version.
• 17:20
  Speaker B: Right.
• 17:24
  Speaker C: But questions with Fender.
• 17:26
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 17:29
  Speaker C: But now this is great. You know, you mentioned earlier in our conversation building a brand, maybe it's a personal mission statement.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: I only said because that's what some other people, other IT directors have said. And you know what's interesting, ironically, is the other guy that said it was John Santee, also spelled J O N John Santee. And he's on LinkedIn. He's done kind of an interesting job of building his personal brand and kind of following his goals and dreams of getting to an IT position that he's want to work with, which I think is important because here's the question that's not answered. This is. And I. You tell me if this is a big deal or not or if this is a big fear of yours or an insecurity or this. And I'm just asking you to be vulnerable here.
• 18:18
  Speaker C: Sure.
• 18:19
  Speaker A: Do IT directors worry about career stagnant. Stagnant. Is that the right word? Stagnant? Stagnancy. Stagnant. Do, do they worry about career stagnant or losing executive management buy in and trust? Is it a valid concern?
• 18:42
  Speaker C: You know, everyone is at a different.
• 18:44
  Speaker B: Point in their journey.
• 18:48
  Speaker C: I didn't recognize, I've never recognized myself as building a brand for myself or my department or my company.
• 18:58
  Speaker B: I just was trying to build core.
• 19:00
  Speaker C: Values and use those as a way to improve our mental model. And so maybe it's finding your voice or finding your voice. I think that there are other departments to be vulnerable. I think there are necessarily other departments, but I'll say other trades that historically are a lot better at promoting themselves.
• 19:25
  Speaker B: And building a brand.
• 19:26
  Speaker C: And I'm going to use a classic example. Right. You know, it used to be kind of an old joke that, like, if you worked for a bank, you were always a vp. Right. Like the guy that literally I go to like get a loan from. Right. That, you know, just has a little cubicle and two chairs.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: I walked in, has nobody reporting to.
• 19:49
  Speaker C: Them, is like a, is a VP at a bank. And I don't, I don't. I, I hope nobody takes this the wrong way.
• 19:55
  Speaker B: Right. I've chosen to be vulnerable. Right.
• 19:57
  Speaker C: I'm not trying to put down banking.
• 19:58
  Speaker A: No. It's like every business owner is a CEO. Well.
• 20:03
  Speaker C: And I. And, and are you.
• 20:04
  Speaker A: Extremely true.
• 20:05
  Speaker C: Right. I can be a CEO of one. I can be a CEO of a.
• 20:08
  Speaker B: Business of one or two. Right.
• 20:10
  Speaker C: Yeah. And so, you know, there's certain industries or cultures that will build that brand or we'll Call it title, you know, very early on, but again, I would, I would love people to walk away with this mentality that title doesn't make who you are. People will respect you based on how.
• 20:37
  Speaker B: You choose to carry yourself.
• 20:40
  Speaker C: People will respect you based on how.
• 20:43
  Speaker B: You deliver results to them.
• 20:46
  Speaker C: And title is something you earn by.
• 20:49
  Speaker B: Delivering those results and by carrying yourself.
• 20:52
  Speaker C: A certain way, not something that should.
• 20:55
  Speaker B: Be just given to you or taken.
• 20:59
  Speaker A: If, if there was a, if there was one single training or very valuable piece of information that we put around all of this, this purpose, values and everything that it is, everything that we're talking about here, right, which is the collective mindset of it and around the community and stuff. You know, what would that one, what would that one training be like? How is it, Is it, you know, is it how to have an end game in it? Is it how to never stop loving your job? Is it, Is it to how to always love your career? What's the training? Is it how to, Is it how to network properly? Is it how to grow your, Is it how to grow your professional network of, of peers and have a, like a tribe of people that, you know, you really want to connect with? What's the training? What's the.
• 22:07
  Speaker C: Yeah, networking is very important. And again, when you approach networking, just like I was mentioning about title, when you approach networking, I think you need.
• 22:21
  Speaker B: To never fear anyone as a threat.
• 22:23
  Speaker C: Like, I can always learn from somebody, they can always learn from me. There's an abundance of knowledge out there.
• 22:31
  Speaker B: That should be shared.
• 22:32
  Speaker C: So networking is extremely important because it gives you different perspectives on things. It's great to be able to, I would encourage it people to join, you know what we'd call like user groups or communities that people are trying to.
• 22:49
  Speaker B: Solve their own problems and hear what their problems are and hear what solutions.
• 22:56
  Speaker C: They'Re trying to implement. There's a lot of wisdom in not.
• 23:00
  Speaker B: Always being the guy that has to speak in the room, but sitting back.
• 23:03
  Speaker C: And listening a little bit. So networking, joining communities, that's a huge.
• 23:10
  Speaker B: Thing that will help you grow and.
• 23:12
  Speaker C: Not stagnant to kind of get back to that word you were using earlier.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: I don't. Maybe that's not the biggest fear or concern that you have. Like when it comes to your job and your career and everything you're doing, what's your single biggest frustration, problem or concern? Like, you know what I mean? Like what is.
• 23:35
  Speaker C: So I do want to hit on the stagnant just a little bit more for a second. So we all fear that we're not going to grow in our job. Like, that's a natural fear that people have. I just. If I could give the IT community.
• 23:53
  Speaker B: One word of advice or one small.
• 23:56
  Speaker C: Phrase I would say is act as if, meaning act as if you are the leader.
• 24:04
  Speaker B: Deliver results.
• 24:05
  Speaker C: That's what leaders are. That's what leaders do.
• 24:11
  Speaker B: Leaders deliver results.
• 24:13
  Speaker C: Leaders help others.
• 24:14
  Speaker B: Leaders grow others.
• 24:15
  Speaker C: Leaders put the team first and contribute to the team. So if you can act as if you had the leader title, meaning how would you be an effective leader? You'll become the leader. So act as if, meaning you can be the junior network admin who just got hired. And if you act as if, meaning have integrity, share knowledge, be a team.
• 24:43
  Speaker B: Player, contribute to the team, contribute to.
• 24:46
  Speaker C: The success of the company, deliver results.
• 24:51
  Speaker B: You will never be stagnant. You will always grow.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: Okay, you are in a room of your peers.
• 24:58
  Speaker C: Yes, you are in a room of your peers.
• 25:00
  Speaker B: Always. Regardless of title.
• 25:01
  Speaker C: Take title out of it.
• 25:03
  Speaker B: You are in a room of your peers every time you enter any room.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: I know, but I'm literally saying right now, you are in a room of your peers. All at your level. High level, sophistication, leadership. They've all. They're all on the same level. You. They all can code. They've all been leadership. They all. They've all been through the pains of being a leader and not, you know, being a servant leader and hiring bad people. And they've made all those mistakes and they've done this and now they're. They're at the top. Now they're at the top. Their cio, cto, their IT director in the mid, whatever it is.
• 25:35
  Speaker C: And the question is, what do you fear?
• 25:37
  Speaker A: No, the question is, what do you all want and would love? What would you love to see a presentation on? I want. I'm dying to go see this new hit movie. What is it I want to hear from this guy? Is it the guy that wrote this Phoenix project? Is it the number one security guru? Is it AI hype master? Who is. What is the one training that you guys are just like, I am not missing this for anything. I'm canceling my calendar. I am cry, I am scrap.
• 26:22
  Speaker C: I.
• 26:22
  Speaker A: What is it?
• 26:26
  Speaker C: Yeah, I think IT people are extremely curious. I think we naturally want to learn from those that have been very successful. If there is, you know, tech leaders, you know, that are going to give.
• 26:45
  Speaker B: A speech about kind of their life journey.
• 26:50
  Speaker C: You know, I'm all in, right? I want to hear how did they get to where they were?
• 26:55
  Speaker B: How did they build their empire?
• 26:58
  Speaker C: What is I can learn. What is it I can learn from how they failed? Yeah, I think is, you know, to be honest, the most important aspect. So if somebody were to give a very open and honest speech that said, here's every way I failed to get to where I'm at, that would be the speech I couldn't miss. Because I think if there's one thing I've learned in life, you cannot be afraid of failure. You fail forward and meaning you learn.
• 27:35
  Speaker B: From failure and you move forward.
• 27:37
  Speaker C: And failure is like the most valuable teacher. When you try something and it doesn't.
• 27:44
  Speaker B: Work, you almost learn more from that than not.
• 27:48
  Speaker C: And I'm not saying to fail on purpose, but what I'm saying is if I could, if I can learn from tech leaders how they have gone, where they got and what the struggle was, what were the failures that they really learned from, that would probably be the most insightful conversations.
• 28:11
  Speaker A: So one of the first guys I'm asking to give a talk, I just put his.
• 28:15
  Speaker C: Lincoln asks a lot about, you know, a lot of vulnerability. Of course.
• 28:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I asked John Gillespie, who's been on the show before, I just put his. I just put his link in the group. Okay, so here's a guy that wanted to be a professional surfer, right? He went to Hawaii, lived there to become professional surfer. Didn't happen. Was an IT director or whatever. Right now he's CTO at Megacor Megacorp. They got two golfers on, like, you know, in the Masters or on the Pro Tour, right? They've got like, you know, it's a it. He's got a big, big role. And when I asked him, like, you know, how'd you get there? Or whatever, he's like, it's all about your network and, you know, who, you know, and taking care of people and blah, blah, blah. And I just happened to be somewhere and someone was like, you know, I was having a conversation and we were just, you know, I was just telling him this, that, and the guy was like, you know, we need someone over here and, you know, I think you'd be a good fit and blah, blah, blah. So I was going to have him give a presentation on. And really, this is. I know it sounds selfish, but in reality, it's all about giving back to you guys. So I don't feel. I don't. I really don't feel guilty asking you this. I asked him, I said, I'd love you to just give it, you know, 10 to 15 minute on, you know, growing your personal network and how this has led to a more fulfilling career and growth of your, you know, I said personal brand there. But you know, finding your voice, you know, challenges that you've overcome things to avoid best practices and how to not go stagnant in your career and how to continue to gain the respect of, you know, your peers and hierarchy and with all the insecurities that we hold. Overcoming imposter syndrome, which would be your act as if thing right in a space evolving so fast and you know, assuming we, we, we deal with that to some degree or do you just say screw it and go to the beach because he's a big surfer and so am I, so that's why. So anyways, that's, I'm just curious, like, would that be an interesting topic?
• 30:01
  Speaker C: Absolutely.
• 30:03
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 30:04
  Speaker C: Funny you mentioned surfing. I noticed that in your, your LinkedIn profile, Phil. So sounds like you guys are kindred spirits.
• 30:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's just nothing like, you know, some days you're just like so stressed out and then you're just sitting out in this massive body of water and it sounds so, it's so cliche and every surfer is cliche. They're totally like, I'm just one with the earth now. And it's like you are, you're sitting out in this massive body of water and you have nothing to do but contemplate in between trying to find the perfect wave and surf the perfect wave, which will never happen, but then you get one and it was like really good. And you're like, wow, I want it again and doesn't happen.
• 30:40
  Speaker C: I'm having a, I'm having recollections of Point Break, old movie, when you met 50 Year Storm. Yeah, exactly. You know, though there's a lot of wisdom in that. I think we can all fall into this trap of not taking care of our personal health or feeling like if we code for, you know, or, or work on this project for 10, 12, 15, 20 hours. Don't get me wrong, I guilty, guilty. You know, I, I, I put in as much time as anybody, but there's a lot of wisdom in walking away and going surfing or working out or like, I personally don't surf. I would love to, to learn and do it sometime, but go with Phil.
• 31:28
  Speaker E: If you want to learn, then not go with Phil. I went with one times and I want to just die at that. He took me to a 6ft waves as someone who's tried it three times and about like asked, you know, a blue shark to help me out, to take me out and it was snowing oh my gosh.
• 31:49
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker C: But, but I've got a. Well, first of all, I've got, I've got personal. I've got, you know, a family, a wife and children that keep me busy. I've got a, some personal hobbies myself. I, I do some, some music stuff on the side, but also just I, I've always had a thing with working out and I, that's how I start my day. That's how I get my, my morning energy. That's how I keep my mind mentally. Sound is you've got to have some personal balance where you're taking care of.
• 32:28
  Speaker B: Your health a little bit.
• 32:29
  Speaker C: You know, try to eat healthy, try to do some type of physical exercise. Even if it's just going outside and walking around the block and getting some.
• 32:39
  Speaker B: Sun and some fresh air.
• 32:42
  Speaker C: Because when you take a little bit of time to focus on yourself and your physical well being, you will, it will make you so much sharper. Get a good night's sleep.
• 32:56
  Speaker A: It's my worst, my worst thing.
• 32:58
  Speaker C: I am extremely guilty of not getting enough sleep. I, I am, I am that guy that basically, you know, he sleeps five hours, you know, most nights. Wow. It's so, it's absolutely terrible for you.
• 33:14
  Speaker B: I really worry about the long term.
• 33:16
  Speaker C: Health effects, but I just, I naturally wake up early. I can't help it. I'm naturally concerned about the business. Want to make sure the business is on track and performing at, you know, all levels, not just my own department, but is, you know, are we shipping stuff out the door on time? Are, you know, is our revenue line growing? I'm, I am very bad about that.
• 33:41
  Speaker B: Personally and need to get better at.
• 33:42
  Speaker C: It, but taking the time to be, you know, well rested, do some physical activities, take a break, you're going to come back refreshed.
• 33:52
  Speaker B: It's the right thing to do. So there's a lot of wisdom in.
• 33:55
  Speaker C: Your surfing, you know.
• 33:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, the, the, the. My sleep score is a 50. It's been horrible lately. But when I'm working out, you know, it's like, you shouldn't work out today. I'm like, no, I gotta work out.
• 34:07
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 34:08
  Speaker A: So, yeah. And it just gets worse with. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on dissecting Popular IT nerds. Thank you, sir.
• 34:17
  Speaker B: Thank you, Phil.
• 34:18
  Speaker C: The pleasure is all mine.
• 34:19
  Speaker A: All right, bud. Have a great day.
• 34:21
  Speaker B: All right.
• 34:21
  Speaker C: Thank you. All right.
• 34:22
  Speaker A: All right.