Latest / Whisky Unfinished / When To Fire A Customer - Scoring A Yamazaki (NAS) With Cristiane Ross - Group Head of Customer Experience, Pure Group International

Transcript

When To Fire A Customer - Scoring A Yamazaki (NAS) With Cristiane Ross - Group Head of Customer Experience, Pure Group International · Whisky Unfinished

• 0:00
  So we've taken you on a journey.
• 0:01
  Whiskies from all over the world, different whiskies, different countries.
• 0:05
  This is by Woven.
• 0:06
  We're starting with the 50%.
• 0:08
  I think you can handle it.
• 0:11
  Let's get into talking about customer experience, your whole world.
• 0:16
  Every business, every industry can benefit from more heart in what we do.
• 0:21
  We're now going to Japan.
• 0:23
  This is Yamazaki's single mall.
• 0:25
  So smooth.
• 0:26
  You've been studying design thinking.
• 0:29
  A way to solve problems, any problem.
• 0:32
  You basically start with the customer and user in mind.
• 0:36
  So this is an 18-year-old Springbank.
• 0:38
  A, no, you can't please everybody.
• 0:39
  But sometimes, it's OK to fire.
• 0:42
  To let it go, yeah.
• 0:42
  It's OK to let it go.
• 0:43
  He's like, sorry, we don't need your business.
• 0:46
  This one is still in the casks, our cask.
• 0:48
  It's sitting in Scotland.
• 0:49
  Please hold on.
• 0:50
  Your call is very important to us.
• 0:51
  I've had an hour and 20 minutes.
• 0:53
  You stayed on for an hour and 20 minutes?
• 0:54
  I did, and I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me, right?
• 0:57
  Eight months after, they reimbursed me.
• 0:59
  I think they were just sick of you.
• 1:00
  They were.
• 1:01
  No, no, no.
• 1:01
  No, they weren't.
• 1:04
  Hey, guys.
• 1:04
  Rickesh here, the Whisky Chief.
• 1:06
  Firstly, thank you so much for watching this.
• 1:07
  I really appreciate it.
• 1:09
  If you could like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskys to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 1:15
  Thanks.
• 1:16
  Welcome to Whisky Unfinished, where the conversation is never done, and neither is the whisky.
• 1:22
  So today, we have my very good friend, Cristiane Ross, here with us.
• 1:26
  Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:29
  Really great for you to be here.
• 1:31
  And actually, one of the originators of the whole idea for this podcast came from a night where Cristiane and I were having a dinner, and we started talking about, hey, we should have a podcast.
• 1:42
  We should have a podcast.
• 1:43
  And that was a few months ago.
• 1:45
  So thank you for that amazing dinner and idea origination and the name of the podcast as well, was something we brainstormed over there one night, so a lot of good brainstorming sessions here.
• 1:59
  I'm excited to have you on the podcast.
• 2:01
  Obviously, you're a great friend, but also, you are devoted a lot of your life to customer experience in various industries, and we'll kind of talk a lot about that.
• 2:12
  But I think one of your great accomplishments that you were telling me was way back in 2010, where you really literally created a role for yourself at Pure Fitness, which we'll talk more about that as well.
• 2:23
  And you're back in that role now for a second stint as a customer experience officer, so handling customer experience across all the different Pure Fitness gyms and everything, all the programs and all the stuff you have.
• 2:36
  So it's a big role.
• 2:37
  We'll jump into that.
• 2:38
  So we're focusing today on customer experience.
• 2:40
  I'm excited to learn from you about good customer experience, bad customer experience.
• 2:46
  I think customer experience is such a broad topic, right?
• 2:49
  And we all experience it in every way.
• 2:51
  We're all customers in some way or another, whether we're going to buy something or experience something, or we're trying products and services every single day.
• 3:01
  And obviously, in today's world, there's so much, I would say, transparency around customer experience, because you have ratings, and you have comments, and you have reviews, and everything's like a lot more public than it used to be, let's say, 20 years ago, right?
• 3:15
  So we'll jump into all of that.
• 3:17
  But first, of course, let's jump into the whisky.
• 3:19
  So we're going to start here on the top left here.
• 3:22
  If you want to take the first whisky, go ahead, and we'll give that a bit of a nose.
• 3:27
  So this is a very interesting whisky for me.
• 3:31
  And I love this whisky.
• 3:32
  I have had it before.
• 3:34
  This is by Woven.
• 3:36
  A good friend of mine, Nick Ravenhall, started this company.
• 3:39
  It's an independent bottling brand based out of the UK.
• 3:42
  But they really focus a lot on the high-end whisky, and they focus a lot more on the high-end whisky.
• 3:48
  But they really focus a lot on whiskys from all over the world, and mostly blended whiskys.
• 3:53
  So they've created this whisky called Woven Hemispheres.
• 3:57
  So this is a blend of different whiskys from different countries.
• 4:02
  So they've got some New Zealand whisky in there.
• 4:05
  They've got some English whisky in there.
• 4:06
  They've got some all kinds of other stuff in there.
• 4:09
  So they blend it really from different places.
• 4:11
  Different parts of the world to try to create this unique flavor.
• 4:14
  So for me, I think this is a great starting whisky, because it's relatively light, as you can see from the color.
• 4:20
  This is most likely, I think, mostly been aged in a bourbon cask.
• 4:24
  And we can tell that from more of the yellow notes, versus you see later on, we're getting into stuff that's a bit more sherry.
• 4:32
  This is at 51%.
• 4:33
  So I would say take a sip first, but then probably you might want to add a couple of.
• 4:38
  We're starting with the 50%, 51%.
• 4:41
  I think you can handle it.
• 4:43
  We're going to start straight in with a pretty big whisky here.
• 4:47
  But I get, I'm interested to hear your opinion, I get a lot of really interesting, I would say light.
• 4:56
  fruit notes on the nose. It's got a very, very nice nose for me. And then smooth balance, great finish. I definitely enjoy it with a couple of drops of water.
• 5:11
  Sorry, more. I'll try a little bit of the water too. So just in terms of the ratings, one is utter shite. 10 is freedom on the Scottish Freedom Scale. I would give that a solid 7.5 for me. I think it's a really nice, great mouthfeel, good texture, not too high acidity.
• 5:39
  It is smooth. I agree with that. I think it seems strong for me. I've only been learning more about whisky from you, which is great. I'm surprised because when you said how blended it is, I actually thought it would be quite fragmented, for lack of a better word, but it comes together nicely. It's very well integrated. I agree. And they've created a really unique world blend. And I think it's a nice way for people who are maybe new to whisky to try bottles like this. So this is, I think, 40 pounds per bottle, retail kind of UK. So not crazy expensive. And if you're new to the world of whisky, it's a nice, it's a really cool bottle. The design of the bottle is really nice. And yeah, and obviously I'm plugging here for my good friend who owns the company. Question though, how come does this one, since it's blended, do we know the years? Do they blend random, like 12 years plus 18 years?
• 6:37
  Do they mix or no? Yeah, it's a good question. It's definitely a mix. We don't know the exact age profile. It's very unlikely to be high age statements because that's pretty expensive. If you start blending like 12 year old, 15 year old, mostly once you get to that level, you want to just bottle it as a 12 year old or 15. So most of this stuff, I'm guessing, I don't know for sure, it's probably in the three to six year range. They might have a dollop, a little bit of something, a bit more age, just to give it some balance. But also usually when you have blended whiskies, it's mostly grain. So there's a mix of grain whisky and single malt whisky. So that comes down to the raw ingredient that they're using to make the whisky, right? So instead of malted barley, they use grain. So grain is typically, I think about 60, 70% of all blended whiskys because grain gives you like a great base note. So you start with the grain and then you add other flavors and other elements to kind of round it out. But I'm sure they went through lots of testing and lots of rounds to end up with something a bit interesting and a bit different, which is how I think about you. So that's why we've got, we've got this first whisky here.
• 7:55
  I must say now, even after the finish is really nice. And it stays, I would say. Exactly. 30 seconds, maybe even 45 seconds. It lingered and it was. It's still in there. Yeah. It's still in the mouth and it's kind of refreshing. Like it's got a nice lingering finish, nice mouthfeel.
• 8:13
  My mouth feels very velvety. There we go. Well, that's a good start. I'm going to totally switch topics from velvety now. Let's get into talking about customer experience, your whole world. Yes.
• 8:25
  For how many years now have you been in the, in the world of customer experience? In the actual, with this title around customer experience has been 15 years, going on 16 years.
• 8:38
  Congratulations. Thank you. Customers must love you if you still have that job.
• 8:42
  Exactly. Let's, let's switch though. I will get into kind of the good side of customer experience, but I want to actually start by talking about the opposite bad customer experience. We've all had bad customer experience, whether that's at the airport. I know it's probably the easiest place to have bad customer experience or checking into a hotel or just not getting whatever it is that you thought you were going to get at a restaurant, at a gym, at a retail store, or any of that kind of stuff. Kick us off with like a story of a bad customer experience that you had to deal with and how did you deal with it? Something, anything come to mind recently that you had to deal with?
• 9:23
  Yeah, no, there are tons. I joke that I probably shouldn't write a book at one point and just, of course, all unnamed, but just to document these stories. But before that, I want to take a bit of a step back just to putting a bit of context. Historically, even me, nobody, there was no such thing. You don't go to university to study customer experience. It was just, what do you study? You study business, there's marketing, right? Everything you always thought about customer back in the days was customer service. It was that counter back in the U.S.
• 9:53
  where you would go return things or complain, you'll get a refund.
• 9:57
  Or it was a call center.
• 9:58
  Correct.
• 9:59
  Yeah, which the Indians made a very popular flag in the 2000s.
• 10:05
  It was a customer call center, which is still the case.
• 10:09
  Most banks, if you try to like, I hate having to call like HSBC or Standard Chartered or any of those banks, because first of all, I have to go through like 17 different number combinations to even try to talk to somebody.
• 10:23
  And then you have to wait another 20 minutes to then actually get through to actually talk to somebody.
• 10:29
  And some of that stuff I get they're trying to automate.
• 10:31
  But sometimes you just want to talk to somebody and be like, here's my issue, fix it.
• 10:35
  Yes.
• 10:35
  And it usually takes like two minutes on the phone.
• 10:38
  But when you go once you get to somebody, I think that is customer experience traditionally, and it still exists.
• 10:42
  Well, so, yes.
• 10:43
  So there's a few things on that you like.
• 10:46
  And I will get to the actual examples.
• 10:49
  It started really, it was usually a call center, was always known or related or associated with it's a complaint or you just want a refund.
• 10:56
  And I remember very clear back in the day where even before, if you didn't have to do all this routing on the voice system, the phone system, you had, it was indeed a call center, was traditionally mostly for like electrical bills or telecoms, if you have to call.
• 11:11
  Right.
• 11:12
  All this with the development of like technology and the automation, things have helped in one way to automate even with the routing.
• 11:19
  However, to your point, you know, please hold on.
• 11:22
  Your call is very important to us.
• 11:23
  There are quite a few memes where you have a skeleton.
• 11:26
  The person's been holding on like their whole life.
• 11:29
  Oh, I've had like 25, 30 minute like hold times.
• 11:32
  Oh, I've had an hour and 20 minutes.
• 11:34
  You stayed on for an hour?
• 11:36
  I did.
• 11:36
  And I had my phone because I had it on the speaker.
• 11:38
  And I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
• 11:41
  Right.
• 11:41
  So that is really bad customer experience.
• 11:43
  So one thing that I wanted to just say basically is if you just ignore or you keep passing the bucket.
• 11:50
  Yeah.
• 11:50
  One, we're talking about, we're talking about calls, but it's the same when you go, if you are in person, be it the grocery store or be it where in a clinic or at the airport counter, for example, or when you run and rent a car.
• 12:02
  How many times I've gone to a place and you're like, no, this is the car that I was.
• 12:06
  Oh yeah, no, sorry, ma'am.
• 12:07
  We don't have this.
• 12:08
  This is the other one.
• 12:09
  Anything that it doesn't go according to what was expected.
• 12:12
  It's not what you booked.
• 12:13
  It's not, it doesn't meet the customer expectation.
• 12:16
  Or I guess the customer promise.
• 12:18
  Exactly.
• 12:19
  So there are a few things, the few components is you set up everything you have a bit of a, there is a bit of expectation is set, right?
• 12:28
  Because of whatever your advertisement or whatever is told about your brand or whatever is told about your business.
• 12:35
  So you have components of what was told.
• 12:37
  That is what, that's the expectation that you set.
• 12:39
  And when that expectation is not met or worse yet is actually worse than expected, that is a very bad customer experience.
• 12:48
  From my side, the few things I, I'm always looking as a few of us in customer experiences, what can I do to minimize that friction or try to, you know, you can't please everybody all the time, but to me, the biggest thing is set the customer expectation properly so that they are not fully disappointed, right?
• 13:07
  And it's better to then wow and give a bit of surprise.
• 13:11
  I'm going to give an example that I've had as a customer first.
• 13:14
  Okay.
• 13:15
  Health insurance company that I paid, you know, a lot of money for it, obviously as a year premium.
• 13:21
  And it came to a point that basically they didn't fulfill, they didn't reimburse me.
• 13:26
  And this became a big issue when I went to ask all this information.
• 13:30
  Long story short, agent that sold me the policy, they made a mistake.
• 13:35
  Oh, and something that they said should have been covered wasn't or something like that.
• 13:39
  Well, on the policy price, I paid what I was asked to pay all in, you know, I think back then it was like 6,000 US dollars for the year.
• 13:46
  Right.
• 13:46
  So it wasn't really cheap either.
• 13:48
  Yeah, that's a good plan.
• 13:50
  That's a good plan.
• 13:51
  Yeah.
• 13:51
  But when it came towards the end of the year, I was claiming certain things and they disputed then they were, the insurance, because then you're not dealing with the agent, right?
• 13:58
  Yeah.
• 13:59
  So.
• 13:59
  Well, that's the claims department.
• 14:01
  That's a whole different department.
• 14:03
  That's the claims department.
• 14:03
  As we were talking here about don't pass things on, they're notorious for- Exactly.
• 14:07
  Passing things on because some decision was made by someone else that whatever that reimbursement was didn't qualify to be reimbursed.
• 14:14
  And me being- That happens all the time.
• 14:17
  I mean, I think they have a whole department set up just to reject shit so that basically I'm guessing a large majority of people just don't bother disputing it, right?
• 14:27
  And that's how they make, I'm guessing millions or tens of millions or hundreds of millions.
• 14:32
  Yeah.
• 14:33
  Just by rejecting a claim and then people don't fight it.
• 14:37
  They get tired, correct.
• 14:38
  Now, out of principle, because I also work in this in the industry of like, I was just like, hang on a second.
• 14:44
  And I am very through with the receipts, the referrals.
• 14:48
  The insurance company, the health insurance- provider is actually from the UK.
• 14:53
  And one thing you learn about insurance, there are a lot of bucket, a lot of, they pass the buckets a lot, because you have the one, they are, what do you call, the one that actually pays, you know, the claims adjust, the laws adjust and all that.
• 15:03
  Anyway, this time, it did take a lot of my time.
• 15:06
  I dealt initially with an insurance company, and again, I was stuck with a claims agent that was quite robotic and also stuck to a script, yeah?
• 15:16
  And didn't solve my problem.
• 15:17
  So it took me a while, and I'm talking about months.
• 15:21
  Months that I wrote letter, I wrote emails, I wrote a letter to the ombudsman in the UK.
• 15:27
  Do you mean literally a letter, or you mean email?
• 15:29
  Email, I emailed back then, right?
• 15:31
  Okay, because I thought you were like writing letters.
• 15:33
  Actually, no, I still also typed it up, printed and posted, registered.
• 15:39
  That is a lot of work, because I don't remember the last time I did that.
• 15:42
  That's like serious work to like write an actual.
• 15:45
  And the reason it wasn't even just about the money, I went online and I found the name of the like somebody, even similar to me, like a head of customer experience, to get and just to say, listen, I'm not being unreasonable here.
• 15:57
  Here is all the information, et cetera.
• 15:59
  Guess what?
• 16:00
  Eight months after, so the positive, eight months after, they reimbursed me.
• 16:04
  They did.
• 16:05
  They did.
• 16:06
  I think they were just sick of you.
• 16:07
  They were probably, probably.
• 16:09
  So.
• 16:09
  Somebody get rid of this woman.
• 16:11
  Split, but always polite.
• 16:13
  So here's a good, here's where I'm building this up.
• 16:15
  This is an experience that I had as a customer that it was unfair, yeah?
• 16:20
  And I did build my case.
• 16:22
  Still very polite.
• 16:23
  I was quite annoyed after a while.
• 16:25
  I mean, I found the CEO name.
• 16:27
  I was like, dear sir, just, I already reached out to this.
• 16:30
  This is unreasonable, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:32
  And here's why.
• 16:33
  And by, you know, but very polite.
• 16:35
  So again, eight months later, they did reimburse me.
• 16:37
  Of course.
• 16:38
  Do you think I'm, I.
• 16:39
  Of course you're not.
• 16:40
  You're renewing that.
• 16:41
  I never renew with them.
• 16:42
  Yeah, you never want to talk to them again.
• 16:44
  And in fact, I actually went to her and I shared with a bunch of friends.
• 16:47
  I said, do not ever consider this insurance company.
• 16:50
  Yeah, that's, yeah, that's done for them.
• 16:52
  They've lost a customer.
• 16:53
  They've lost a customer, but they, more than that, it affects their reputation, right?
• 16:58
  When you said about what the issue that we have sometimes, a lot of people, most people are not as patient.
• 17:04
  They lose their cool.
• 17:05
  You start calling names and you start being aggressive.
• 17:08
  And that is, to me, is unacceptable.
• 17:11
  So on my head side of a customer experience, I also have to deal with those clients that are being quite rude or quite unreasonable when things didn't go according to the plan.
• 17:21
  And then they are belittling our staff.
• 17:24
  And to me.
• 17:24
  Yeah, that's not okay.
• 17:25
  That's not okay.
• 17:26
  So sometimes I'll be the one to speak to a client that is being outrageous.
• 17:30
  And I'm talking about adult, educated, male and female.
• 17:34
  And they're like.
• 17:35
  Like what, what would happen?
• 17:36
  What is somebody upset about?
• 17:37
  You're heading things for Pure Fitness.
• 17:39
  Let me give the listeners a bit of back, if they don't know Pure.
• 17:42
  What is Pure?
• 17:43
  Pure group is a lifestyle provider, yoga studios, fitness clubs in Hong Kong, Singapore and Shanghai and Beijing.
• 17:52
  How many clubs total now?
• 17:53
  36.
• 17:54
  We had to close a few in Singapore.
• 17:56
  Usually the clients get upset over a few things, right?
• 17:59
  I'm going to give one example of a client that I did specifically had to.
• 18:03
  And this person was like, literally yelling at me on the phone saying, how dare you?
• 18:09
  I pay your salary.
• 18:11
  You are the worst customer experience ever.
• 18:13
  And I was just like, and this is by the time he gets to me, things have already been escalated.
• 18:17
  We tried to appease, we tried everything.
• 18:19
  This particular case, it was like a lawyer, a very high lawyer.
• 18:25
  And he had a history of being very rude to the staff over anything.
• 18:29
  You checked in and you didn't get the towel that he wanted, whatever.
• 18:33
  He didn't get the towel that he wanted?
• 18:34
  The towel, the lock or something like, I'm giving an example of petty stuff, right?
• 18:39
  Or he would be making a mess of some equipment.
• 18:43
  This several- This was a behavior, a pattern.
• 18:46
  Correct, a very bad behavior.
• 18:48
  And anyway, it got to the point, of course, before I'm trying to fire a customer or say, sorry, we no longer want you, we give you tons of chances, right?
• 18:56
  The staff had already tried to reason with him several times but clearly this person was not.
• 19:03
  And he was also rude to all the clients, sometimes even in the changing room or dealing with all the clients.
• 19:07
  And it was quite racist, like literally being, working out next to somebody that looked different than him or saying, you need to go to another machine because you're not, don't stay close to me.
• 19:18
  Oh, wow.
• 19:18
  And it's, so- So what happened in the end?
• 19:21
  So what happened in the end is, at first I said, you know what, give people the benefit of the doubt, right?
• 19:24
  People, but clearly this was not the case.
• 19:26
  So I actually had to call, I called him once before.
• 19:30
  First time I called was to say who I was and I was calling regarding this behavior, which is, you know, I understand people have bad days but this is unacceptable.
• 19:38
  We promote pleasant and healthy environment for everybody.
• 19:41
  Inclusion.
• 19:42
  Inclusion, yeah, our staff, our staff are from all over the world.
• 19:45
  And he's like, I'm sorry, where are you from?
• 19:48
  You sound Indian.
• 19:49
  Are you Indian?
• 19:50
  Really?
• 19:52
  You don't, as an Indian, you don't sound Indian, by the way.
• 19:55
  And I said to him, I said.
• 19:56
  I know I sound American, but I'm Indian, yeah, origin.
• 20:00
  But that, to me, I was just, right away, and I was just like, um.
• 20:03
  What does that have to do with it, also?
• 20:05
  I said to him, sir, you know, this is exactly, you're missing the point.
• 20:10
  It doesn't matter where I'm from, and I don't have to answer that question for you.
• 20:14
  I'm calling you to address this behavior, just to say, this is the only time you're going to hear from me about giving you a chance.
• 20:21
  If this behavior continues, we will just, you know, we were no longer a good fit.
• 20:25
  Then I sent an email to follow up, politely to say, da-da-da-da-da.
• 20:29
  You know, here's where we, this is to recap.
• 20:31
  We hope you can understand.
• 20:32
  Sure enough, I had to call him again to terminate his account with us.
• 20:36
  And that did not go very well.
• 20:37
  He was really screaming, saying, you know.
• 20:40
  But to me, now, what I'm getting at is, how do you handle this?
• 20:44
  You had people like him that are belittling the staff, being very rude and abusive.
• 20:51
  At one point, I also have to protect our staff.
• 20:54
  And I'll go to a big component of customer experience.
• 20:58
  So with this particular client, the reality is, A, no, you can't please everybody.
• 21:01
  But sometimes, it's okay to fire a client.
• 21:04
  To let it go, yeah.
• 21:05
  It's okay to let it go.
• 21:06
  He was like, sorry, we don't need your business.
• 21:08
  And in this case, I just said, it's like, let's just call him Mr. Mark.
• 21:12
  His name probably wasn't Rahul before you said it.
• 21:15
  Right, right.
• 21:16
  Or, yeah, or Abdullah.
• 21:19
  So I said, Mark, you know, we've had a conversation before.
• 21:23
  It's a shame that I have to call you again over the circumstances.
• 21:25
  But just so you know, from now on, you no longer have any access to any of our facilities.
• 21:29
  Your account is no longer valid, and we'll issue a refund for you.
• 21:32
  Yeah, sometimes you have to let go.
• 21:34
  But I think the hard part of customer service, customer experience, in those situations, is being patient, right?
• 21:40
  Because you're dealing with, I mean, this is an extreme example of someone who's not only irate, but also has gone, I would say, they've crossed the line in terms of, if you're gonna be racist, that's obviously not okay.
• 21:53
  But I'm saying, take it a level down.
• 21:55
  I'm sure there's a lot of people who are just complaining about something that didn't meet their expectations or all of that.
• 22:02
  It takes a lot of patience from your side, your team, obviously, not you directly, to be able to deal with that all the time, isn't it?
• 22:12
  Is that one of the keys?
• 22:13
  I would say patience is one key.
• 22:14
  What are some of the other keys to dealing with bad customer experience from the company's point of view?
• 22:20
  Right, right.
• 22:21
  So a few things is, always understand that there's three sides of every story.
• 22:25
  There's the staff side, the client side, and the truth somewhere in between, always.
• 22:30
  But the one thing is, you cannot have a good CX.
• 22:33
  CX stands for customer experience, not just Cafe Pacific, every time.
• 22:37
  Yeah.
• 22:38
  And definitely not Cafe Pacific, I would say.
• 22:43
  Well, Cafe has improved, but yeah.
• 22:45
  But you cannot have a good CX without a good EX, employee experience.
• 22:49
  So to your point, it's giving the team a bit of some of the tools.
• 22:54
  Patience is one, but quite frankly, it's also understanding how to disarm or deescalate.
• 22:59
  The first thing, honestly, people just wanna be heard.
• 23:03
  Acknowledge.
• 23:04
  Acknowledge, let them vent.
• 23:06
  So aside from this, it could really be something that sometimes maybe we drop the ball.
• 23:11
  It could have been better, right?
• 23:13
  And that is true.
• 23:15
  So in that case, how do we mitigate?
• 23:17
  Number one, acknowledge.
• 23:18
  I always say also, don't apologize just for the sake of apologizing, because that drives everybody crazy.
• 23:24
  I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
• 23:25
  You're sorry for what?
• 23:26
  Are you gonna do something about it?
• 23:27
  Right, otherwise it's empty.
• 23:28
  It's an empty apology, which doesn't help me if I'm in that, let's say, angry state.
• 23:33
  The other thing is, quite frankly, is I always try to say, let me meet you, I can meet you at the club, I can meet you at a place, because I think face-to-face helps a lot.
• 23:40
  But the answer to your question, a few components are empowering or equipping our team with the tools, which is number one, yes, the patience, but number one, listen.
• 23:49
  Not just listen, really, it's listen to comprehend, just not to react.
• 23:56
  A lot of time, people barely allow the client to finish the sentence, and they are talking back or say, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but I just wanted to.
• 24:03
  That's a good point.
• 24:03
  I've definitely experienced that, yeah.
• 24:05
  Just let them talk.
• 24:06
  Honestly, sometimes they just want to talk.
• 24:08
  I understand.
• 24:11
  Thank you, thank you for sharing that.
• 24:12
  It's hard, it's hard in that situation to just listen, but that is good advice.
• 24:16
  So number one is let the client vent.
• 24:18
  Number two, what are you able to offer at that moment?
• 24:22
  At the end of the day, people want to be heard, and they want somebody to do something at that time.
• 24:26
  A few times when I've done a couple of trainings for the team is also say, guys, even if you cannot solve the problem right there and then, what is the closest, what is the next alternative?
• 24:34
  What can you offer them?
• 24:35
  Offer an option, right?
• 24:36
  So give an example.
• 24:38
  Sometimes it could be something with the billing, yeah?
• 24:41
  And the client, you double it up.
• 24:43
  build me or why you charge me this, maybe it wasn't correct, okay, as a staff at that moment, you are unable to, you're not going to be able to refund them right away. I know you want to go to got to go through the process. Correct. But tell them, you know, Rickesh, I hear you, I am so sorry, this has happened. Let me understand. I'm taking like, I'm jotting this down. I'll tell you what, for now, you have my word, I will get back to you tomorrow by 2pm with what's the option, what's the alternative, or what is the process that we're going to do so that and hold yourself accountable to actually get back. Number one, holding that one point of contact for the client is also a really good thing. Because sometimes they're like, yeah, we pass to the back office, we never hear from them. Or you don't think you're going to hear, or you don't think you're going to hear from them. So listen, listen to to understand that just let the client really speak, be empathetic. Like I always say, what if it was, you know, like, how would you like this to be treated? Offer an alternative offer, offer a follow up and make sure you do follow up, you know, hold yourself up. If you tell the client, you're going to call them, you call them. Don't pass the bucket. Yeah, I think that yeah, I think that's great advice. All right, let's move on to whisky number two. So we're moving around the world. So we tried it a world whisky, we're now going to Japan. So this is Yamazaki's single malts. This is their standard non age statement.
• 26:12
  So readily available around the world and duty free retail stores, etc. It's likely somewhere close to probably around a 12 year old. It's at 43%. Yeah. Okay, I've known this brand. Yeah.
• 26:28
  Have you tried Yamazaki 12 before specifically? No, I just know the name.
• 26:33
  Yeah, Yamazaki very well known. I would say for again, if you're new to whisky, and you're listening to this, pick up a bottle of Yamazaki 12. It's not going to cost you a fortune. It's an easy one to have at home. This is good, super light, super delicate, super easy to get into whisky this way. I think a lot of people feel whiskys are intimidating. It's intimidating, maybe a bit harsh. Maybe it's you know, so I don't give you heartburn or for whatever reason, it's too strong, things like that. I think this is and I will try it with a couple of drops of water. But I think Yamazaki 12 is great entry level. Just you know, get get into your whisky, see where that journey takes you. I would give this a solid. I'd give this. Yeah, probably the same as the woman. I think I gave it a 7.5. I give this a 7.5. By the way, I didn't share my rating before. But for I think especially now that I tried to me this is like 7.8. Okay. But that one to me is a 6.9. Okay. So you're preferring the Yamazaki. Yeah, some good.
• 27:37
  Perhaps also because I already had the coating with the first one.
• 27:41
  It does help, right? So and what was so smooth? We'll see where you get to. And I also prefer I guess I like the bit more of the caramel ish on this one. Well, then you're really going to love the last few because that's that's definitely the where we're going. So customer experience, I think in terms of expectations, I was reading the case study for Southwest Airlines last year.
• 28:02
  Amazing. They were they are really so as far as I understand, they've been around since the 1970s.
• 28:08
  Southwest Airlines budget airline in the US. I know I lived in Austin, Texas. Yeah. So they set up in the night. They're the only airline in US history that has never gone bankrupt.
• 28:19
  Every single airline in the US has gone bankrupt at least once never Southwest Airlines. So Southwest Airlines, and I'll tell the customer experience part of the story. Southwest Airlines motto, their whole motto as a company is two words wheels up. So everything surrounds that that statement, their job is to get you up in the air as fast as possible. Because that's where they make money when they're on the ground. Planes don't make money when when planes are in the air.
• 28:46
  Yeah. So they don't obviously provide meals because that takes more time to load the plane with meals. They don't help you with your luggage between connections. They mostly fly smaller regional airports. They don't fly from like LaGuardia or O'Hare because there's more congestion in those airports. So everything they don't offer really any amenities whatsoever.
• 29:06
  They don't let you select seats. You kind of board like in sections like everything is just set up around wheels up. Right. And that's what they do. No frills, no frills, wheels up. That's their whole company. So interestingly, there was a relatively famous story. I think this was like 15, 20 years ago, a grandmother was flying from I think it was like somewhere in the northeast to through Phoenix to somewhere in the West Coast to visit her grandchildren. And she was in her, I think, 80s or 90s. And she she wrote the CEO a letter, a handwritten letter that said, I'm traveling.
• 29:40
  to see my grandkids for Christmas.
• 29:43
  I really need some help with my luggage to get from one plane to another at Phoenix airport.
• 29:50
  And the CEO decided to actually make that letter public and his response public, which basically said, we love that you're, you know, we love that you're going to see your grandchildren.
• 30:03
  We respect your decision.
• 30:05
  We're not gonna do it.
• 30:06
  And he made that very public to say basically, don't fly Southwest Airlines.
• 30:11
  If you're expecting anything, because we're not.
• 30:13
  That's not us.
• 30:14
  So they, and actually they trained their customer service agents back then.
• 30:19
  I don't know if this is still the case.
• 30:20
  They trained them to tell people, if you want food, if you want this or that.
• 30:26
  We're not it.
• 30:27
  Fly United, fly, you know, that's not what we do.
• 30:31
  You're not gonna get that here.
• 30:32
  And I kind of love that story because it ties to your point about.
• 30:35
  Setting the expectations.
• 30:36
  Setting expectations.
• 30:37
  And being transparent.
• 30:39
  And then holding the line on that, which I think I was really blown away about how well Southwest, I never thought of Southwest Airlines that way.
• 30:46
  I've barely flown Southwest Airlines.
• 30:47
  I used to live in the US, but it was too cheap budget.
• 30:50
  Like it didn't go to the cities I wanted to go to.
• 30:53
  So I barely flew it.
• 30:54
  But I actually have a respect for them now that I understand their position in the market and how well they are doing actually is the only one in 50 years to not go into bankruptcy.
• 31:06
  Because they just stood, you know, grounded in who they are.
• 31:10
  And sometimes I feel like a lot of companies try to please everyone or try to be everyone, be everything.
• 31:16
  Be everything for everyone.
• 31:17
  And you just can't.
• 31:18
  Yeah, you just can't do that, right?
• 31:19
  100%.
• 31:20
  So I love that story.
• 31:21
  So I did fly Southwest back in the day.
• 31:23
  I live in the US from, gosh, 95 to 2005.
• 31:27
  One thing though that I don't know if you, this is in your case study, they were always though very well known for the, everybody that works for Southwest, they're actually really friendly.
• 31:37
  They're polite.
• 31:37
  They're friendly.
• 31:38
  They're warm.
• 31:39
  It's a whole Southern hospitality.
• 31:40
  It's part of their, yeah.
• 31:41
  It's part of their culture.
• 31:42
  It is part of their culture.
• 31:43
  I always say a few things in the sense of like, customers don't mind what it is as long as you set expectations and indeed stick for what you stand for, right?
• 31:54
  In this case, they were not trying to, oh, but the old lady, the grandma wrote to us.
• 32:00
  And to me- He could have easily bent the rules and just helped her out.
• 32:03
  But he was actually making a much stronger point by making the letter public and just saying, this is not who we are.
• 32:10
  Right, yeah, yeah.
• 32:11
  I think it's great.
• 32:12
  I know that's kind of interesting.
• 32:14
  So switching into that topic, how do you define customer?
• 32:17
  You teach customer experience to your team.
• 32:20
  You run customer experience on a daily basis for hundreds of clients across different countries who are experiencing fitness, gyms.
• 32:30
  You also had a year in the food and beverage industry, right, and with a pretty famous group, Black Sheep group here in Hong Kong.
• 32:39
  I think they have like 45, 50 restaurants across Hong Kong and Singapore, et cetera.
• 32:43
  I think they have great customer service, Black Sheep.
• 32:46
  I think they're known for that.
• 32:48
  So when you kind of think about your experience or when you train good customer service, what does that- What does it mean?
• 32:56
  What does that mean?
• 32:57
  How do you, yeah, how do you define that?
• 32:59
  How do you train that?
• 33:00
  In simple terms is fulfill the client's needs, yeah?
• 33:04
  Right.
• 33:05
  Without any headache, yeah?
• 33:08
  So you remove the hassle.
• 33:09
  Make it easy for customers to do business with you.
• 33:12
  Yeah.
• 33:12
  At the end of the day, whether it is you're trying to book, make a reservation, you don't want to have to go to, you want to make it easy.
• 33:19
  Can I just make a booking, whether it's through the app or whether it is through the website?
• 33:22
  You want to order something, you want to make it easy as well.
• 33:25
  You want to order.
• 33:25
  Why, you know, in our days, one good thing to compare is that clients nowadays, everybody, we are comparing not just with the same industry.
• 33:33
  You're comparing with all the apps, you're comparing with all the providers, okay?
• 33:36
  We always talk about, for example, Airbnb, or when you're trying to book something, it's really easy to book something at Airbnb.
• 33:43
  So when you go to a hotel platform as well, you want to be as hassle-free, transparency on the pricing.
• 33:49
  So to me, what's a good customer experience is just meet their needs, get them what they want.
• 33:55
  Yeah?
• 33:56
  Efficiently, for me, at least.
• 33:58
  Adding the efficiency on it.
• 33:59
  So talking about hotels, as an example, right?
• 34:02
  So I moved nine months ago to Phuket, right?
• 34:06
  I live in Phuket, Thailand, but I fly into Hong Kong once a month.
• 34:09
  My business and everything is based out of here.
• 34:12
  So I stay at an IHG Group hotel property every time I'm here.
• 34:17
  Every month, I stay in the same hotel for whatever, three, four nights, right?
• 34:21
  Having done that, I've now reached their top tier, whatever, diamond status, right?
• 34:26
  I'm not bragging about it.
• 34:27
  I'm just saying that I've reached that status.
• 34:30
  So my expectations are, you should know me enough as a customer that I'm coming once a month.
• 34:36
  Still, and I just.
• 34:37
  checked in on Friday, two days ago to the hotel.
• 34:41
  Every time I go there, and I've already, obviously I booked through the app.
• 34:45
  They already have my credit card.
• 34:46
  They must have a copy of my ID and passport.
• 34:50
  Still, I have to wait at that check-in counter for five minutes where the nice young lady, it's not her fault, has to go get this envelope where she finds my reservation.
• 35:01
  Oh no.
• 35:02
  Shows me the confirmation of what I've already booked.
• 35:06
  Writes, handwrites at that moment the rate so that I re-have to confirm that that's the rate.
• 35:13
  And then goes and issues the keys.
• 35:16
  And I'm just like watching this whole experience going, why the fuck is any of this happening?
• 35:22
  Why can't I show up, show you my ID, and you give me a room key?
• 35:25
  100%.
• 35:26
  That should be all check-in all over the world.
• 35:29
  I just don't, okay, I can maybe understand if they don't know you as a customer, or you didn't book, okay, maybe the first time.
• 35:35
  I stay at this hotel once a month.
• 35:38
  Okay.
• 35:38
  And I have done so for the last nine months.
• 35:40
  So not only should they know me by first name, really, by this point.
• 35:44
  100%.
• 35:45
  Which they don't, right?
• 35:46
  They should recognize me by now, I would think.
• 35:48
  They don't even do that.
• 35:49
  That would be going above and beyond.
• 35:51
  Welcome, Rickesh, nice to see you again.
• 35:52
  Here's your room key.
• 35:53
  No, that is the minimum.
• 35:54
  I don't even want that.
• 35:55
  I just want the key.
• 35:56
  I've come off of a flight.
• 35:58
  You don't have to wait.
• 35:59
  I don't wanna wait this 10 minutes.
• 36:02
  This is just this unnecessary interaction that's, yeah, I don't know what it would take to get rid of that.
• 36:08
  This is me venting.
• 36:09
  This is me just kind of, I don't understand why that has to be that way.
• 36:13
  I am very shocked because IHG, it's not a small group.
• 36:16
  No.
• 36:17
  And by now, what you just described, oh my God, I booked all my hotels through booking.com.
• 36:22
  Right.
• 36:23
  I personally do.
• 36:24
  And when I go in, quite frankly, they don't, they just ask for my passport.
• 36:29
  Sometimes I can't even scan the passport on the app, but they, that's it.
• 36:34
  Very easy.
• 36:35
  Everything's, I don't, there's no paper.
• 36:36
  The last time, one time I stayed even at the Hari, because I did a staycation during COVID, but whatever.
• 36:41
  And super easy as well.
• 36:43
  At the Hari Hotel, I've only been there once.
• 36:45
  Everything was on the iPad.
• 36:46
  I just had to sign the iPad, no paper.
• 36:48
  Just show them.
• 36:49
  Ridiculous.
• 36:50
  So I'm really shocked.
• 36:51
  Yeah, some, I don't know if it's this hotel.
• 36:53
  This is a big group.
• 36:54
  Yeah, yeah.
• 36:55
  This should not be happening.
• 36:56
  I don't know if it's this operator or what, but I've definitely stayed at hotels around the world where you have to go through this fucking process.
• 37:02
  No, given, I've seen.
• 37:03
  For no reason whatsoever.
• 37:05
  In today's age.
• 37:06
  I need to write them.
• 37:07
  I need to write them a letter because they shouldn't be hiring me because.
• 37:10
  Yeah, they definitely need you.
• 37:12
  But this is the thing.
• 37:13
  See, so I'm one of these more apathetic, I guess, customer service people.
• 37:17
  I'll happily complain to you and a bunch of friends about it, but I'm not gonna do anything.
• 37:21
  I don't really, I'm not gonna go write a review.
• 37:24
  I'm not gonna write a letter.
• 37:25
  I just don't have the time or the energy.
• 37:29
  It just doesn't appeal to me.
• 37:31
  I'm actually facet, and I do use reviews.
• 37:34
  Like even let's say Google.
• 37:35
  I use reviews.
• 37:36
  Even when I'm looking at.
• 37:36
  And I leave reviews.
• 37:37
  Yeah, restaurants or whatever.
• 37:38
  I look at other people's reviews or even on delivery apps, right?
• 37:42
  You see what other people are saying.
• 37:43
  Yeah.
• 37:44
  I have never, never written a review of any place ever in my life.
• 37:48
  Oh wow.
• 37:49
  I'm gonna go ahead and confess this to you and write to a customer.
• 37:51
  Oh wow, I'm shocked.
• 37:52
  I have opinions.
• 37:53
  That's not the problem.
• 37:54
  I know you.
• 37:56
  I don't have a lack of opinion.
• 37:57
  I just don't really see it translating to anything.
• 38:00
  Okay.
• 38:01
  So I like, I don't feel that my one little review.
• 38:05
  Yes, it does.
• 38:05
  Is gonna do anything to anywhere.
• 38:07
  It does.
• 38:08
  I'm very, okay.
• 38:09
  Wow.
• 38:10
  So that's what I wanna get into.
• 38:11
  You convinced me that I should.
• 38:13
  By the time we finish this chat.
• 38:15
  I should be a proactive.
• 38:18
  Reviewer.
• 38:18
  I guess customer experience feedback person.
• 38:22
  You, I'm very surprised.
• 38:25
  I had no idea Rikesh, cause I know you have opinions.
• 38:27
  So I'm very shocked that you don't.
• 38:28
  To me, it doesn't take long.
• 38:30
  It's literally on the, as I'm leaving on the phone.
• 38:33
  No, it's not about a matter of time.
• 38:34
  It's that I don't think it's gonna accomplish anything.
• 38:37
  Okay.
• 38:38
  That's different than, I'm happy to take whatever 30 seconds while I'm in a taxi to just write it.
• 38:43
  Right.
• 38:43
  So a few things here.
• 38:47
  There are tons of staff, there's tons of surveys and this is scientifically like proven there.
• 38:53
  Okay.
• 38:55
  We are human beings.
• 38:58
  Number one, in terms of referrals, in terms of actual friends referral, we trust 90% of all of us, we trust friends recommendations over any, no, over just a cold review, so to speak.
• 39:13
  However, when it comes to also review.
• 39:15
  Yeah, if you tell me, hey, go check out this restaurant, I go, yeah, I'm gonna try it.
• 39:18
  Right.
• 39:19
  If I do not go to the, you probably like, yeah.
• 39:21
  I wouldn't, yeah.
• 39:22
  Hey guys, Rikesh here, the Whisky Chief.
• 39:24
  If you made it this far in the episode, firstly, thank you so much.
• 39:27
  As you know, it takes a lot to put on these kinds of episodes.
• 39:29
  So if you can like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskys to you.
• 39:34
  and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 39:35
  Thanks.
• 39:38
  Now, for this point that you just said, even with this example of the hotel, anybody that is booking, I, every time that I'm booking a hotel, I do read the reviews.
• 39:46
  I read the four or five.
• 39:47
  I read reviews from solo travelers, because I'm mostly solo traveler.
• 39:51
  I read reviews from family, and I want to know what was the sticky point.
• 39:54
  In your case, sounds like that check-in process is a sticky point.
• 39:58
  I don't know about the rest of your experience.
• 40:00
  We could get into that.
• 40:01
  The rest of it's actually pretty positive, and that's why I kind of like, I'm like, just fix this one thing, because actually, I always stay at that hotel.
• 40:08
  It's not enough to make me go to another hotel.
• 40:10
  Clearly.
• 40:11
  I'm loyal.
• 40:12
  I like the price point.
• 40:13
  I'm happy with the room.
• 40:14
  The breakfast is good.
• 40:15
  Actually, I really love everything else.
• 40:17
  They have a gym, blah, blah.
• 40:19
  It's a good location.
• 40:20
  So, this is the one point it's like, why can't you just make this a little better, especially because I'm there 12 times a year.
• 40:28
  They haven't heard from you.
• 40:29
  Yeah.
• 40:30
  And I'm sure you're not the only one.
• 40:30
  Well, they have right now.
• 40:32
  They surely have.
• 40:35
  I'll just send them a copy of this podcast.
• 40:38
  So, but now, going back to the reviews, you're right how you mentioned throughout the years, there has been a lot more accessible.
• 40:47
  We have the reviews and people.
• 40:49
  Trustpilot.
• 40:50
  Trustpilot.
• 40:51
  Google Reviews.
• 40:52
  Google Reviews is huge.
• 40:53
  TripAdvisor.
• 40:54
  Yeah.
• 40:55
  Booking.com.
• 40:56
  I am a genius at something level.
• 40:57
  I don't know what level in Booking.com, because I write reviews, but I also do read them.
• 41:02
  Customers, we all check reviews.
• 41:04
  Most people do.
• 41:05
  Yep.
• 41:06
  So, to your point, does it make a difference?
• 41:09
  100% it does.
• 41:10
  Do you review, I guess, do people leave reviews for Pure online?
• 41:14
  Yes.
• 41:15
  Or do they usually email them in?
• 41:15
  They do both.
• 41:16
  And sometimes, now, we always have to take things with a bit of grain of salt, because sometimes there are disgruntled customers, 100%, that literally the whole thing is to go and...
• 41:24
  Oh, yeah, there's people who are just pissy people who just are gonna complain about everything.
• 41:30
  But what I'm getting at is a legit review, right?
• 41:33
  And how do you say, for example, I review, it's just under my Google profile.
• 41:37
  I have several things that I review.
• 41:38
  So it's public, people know it's you.
• 41:40
  Yeah, well, there's no my name there, but it says, yeah.
• 41:42
  But my point is, when I'm reading, to your point, if I was reading something, I'm debating, if I'm deciding a couple of hotels next to each other, and I read what you described, I'd be like, oh, that's a shame, but actually, it sounds like they're okay, so I would still go, yeah?
• 41:56
  But absolutely makes a difference.
• 41:58
  Mine's not a point to not go to that hotel.
• 42:00
  No. I'm already going there.
• 42:02
  But I'm giving, the peak of a customer service, or a good customer experience is create brand ambassadors.
• 42:09
  You want people to just be like, oh my God, have you tried?
• 42:12
  Yeah. Okay?
• 42:14
  I'm one of those, of brands that I like.
• 42:16
  Give a very good example.
• 42:17
  Last year, 2024, for the first, not two, already more than that.
• 42:21
  Two years ago, yeah, and we're fresh in 2026 now.
• 42:25
  I travel, and I do a lot of solo travel, so I joined this group tour called Intrepid, and I think I mentioned to you before, Intrepid Travel, they're from Australia, they're awesome.
• 42:35
  I tried them first, I read tons of reviews, because I was considering a trip to Vietnam, and I read reviews from Intrepid and other service providers.
• 42:43
  I went with Intrepid, love them.
• 42:45
  I also wrote them a review.
• 42:47
  I wrote about the guide, and then after that, last year, I booked a trip with Intrepid to do a cycling trip as well, in Europe.
• 42:56
  Loved it.
• 42:57
  And ever since then, I've already referred.
• 42:59
  I have my Brazilian friends that are here visiting, they're in Vietnam now, and I've referred.
• 43:03
  Today, I was recommending them to another one, and I wrote a post about it.
• 43:07
  Now, why?
• 43:09
  Because a lot of things worked, right?
• 43:11
  Now, there are things that, if it was a little glitch, I would also mention that.
• 43:14
  Yeah, but overall, you loved it, and for me, customer experience is about, do you know that customer, and can you do something to show you know that customer?
• 43:23
  For example, at Black Sheep Group, where there are a bunch of restaurants, I love going to Black Sheep restaurants because they know who I am.
• 43:29
  It's the simple thing of just the attention you get, and people just, I think, at the bare core want, people just want a little bit of recognition, right?
• 43:40
  It goes back to that show from the 1990s, Cheers, right?
• 43:43
  You just want to go to a bar where everyone knows your name.
• 43:46
  Like, that's it, that's literally all you want in life.
• 43:49
  Know your drink, know your preferences.
• 43:51
  It's just a great feeling.
• 43:52
  You walk in, and people know who you are.
• 43:54
  They're happy to welcome you.
• 43:56
  I know Gary Vee talks a lot about customer experience, right?
• 44:00
  And he talks a lot, I think it was like 15 years ago, whatever, when he had this wine company when he first started, right?
• 44:06
  And he would research clients and find out, for example, a client was, let's say, a big fan of the New York Yankees, right, as an example, and he'd send them like- Tickets or something.
• 44:15
  No, like much, even just like a hat or a T-shirt, like a $20 whatever T-shirt, and then their next order of wine from his company would jump like 100 plus percent.
• 44:26
  Right.
• 44:27
  Just because he took the time to know that that guy.
• 44:30
  I or a girl is a Yankee fan, gave them something not even related to what he was selling.
• 44:35
  He's not even selling that.
• 44:37
  But just a, hey, thanks so much for your last order.
• 44:40
  Here's something I know you'll like.
• 44:43
  And then therefore, now that person's like in love with his company forever, right?
• 44:48
  You've just, you basically bought loyalty just through paying attention.
• 44:52
  That's what I think customer experience is.
• 44:54
  If you didn't know.
• 44:55
  So this is where, this is why it's a bit nuanced.
• 44:58
  Cause you also remember before you said, oh, it's also about efficiency.
• 45:01
  When you're executing something, yes.
• 45:03
  What you just described, and again, when I was with Black Sheep, I was very impressed.
• 45:07
  It's because they use a system and they take notes.
• 45:10
  Your hotel that you just described, have a system.
• 45:13
  They are just not using it.
• 45:14
  They're just not taking notes.
• 45:16
  Every time they say, welcome, you're a, thanks for being a Diamond member.
• 45:20
  They show me the same piece of paper every month, which has my benefits.
• 45:23
  I was like, I got it.
• 45:24
  It's free breakfast, thank you.
• 45:26
  I'm well aware at this point.
• 45:28
  If you can see, I've stayed here 12 times.
• 45:30
  Yes, so they're missing.
• 45:32
  This is one, it's a missed opportunity for them, right?
• 45:35
  So more companies, now let's translate this to the, in general, this also applies.
• 45:40
  I've had really good customer experience in some clinics, hospitals and clinics, because of those little attention to details.
• 45:47
  And then you also have negative ones.
• 45:48
  But what I'm getting at is, for example, that also applies to your business, right?
• 45:53
  You were, whether it's going to be about sending, your customer's job, buying casks of whisky or something else.
• 46:03
  And at the end of the day, what else can you find out about them through asking, but sometimes it's just by researching your customers.
• 46:10
  Well, everyone's online these days.
• 46:12
  I mean, it's so easy to find someone's IG account and go, yeah, and just see what they're into.
• 46:17
  People are very vocal, not vocal, people are very public with what they're actually into.
• 46:23
  All right, let's move on to the third.
• 46:24
  The third whisky here, this one we're getting a little bit more mature type of a whisky drinker.
• 46:39
  So this is my, probably one of my favorite brands in the world, Springbank.
• 46:44
  Springbank is a distillery in Scotland in Campbelltown.
• 46:47
  It's one of, I think only three distilleries that are left now in Campbelltown.
• 46:52
  Beautiful, beautiful whisky, very- Very, yeah, very hard to actually get access to Springbank.
• 47:00
  We sell Springbank through our self-selfish plug here through our company, Still Spirit, our e-commerce site.
• 47:07
  And we do it on a lottery basis.
• 47:09
  So yeah, thank you.
• 47:10
  So every time we get an allocation of Springbank, it sells out immediately and we have to give it to clients who have already bought, let's say above a certain price or whatever.
• 47:20
  What's so unique?
• 47:21
  I mean, are they really old distillery?
• 47:24
  I don't know the name.
• 47:25
  Yeah, it's a very, very old distillery.
• 47:27
  That's why I was saying, this is more, so we've taken you kind of on a journey here of like, okay, around the world, entry level.
• 47:33
  This is if you're a little bit of a mature whisky drinker, you're into whisky, you would know Springbank, but if you don't know whisky well, you wouldn't know Springbank yet.
• 47:41
  So this is an 18 year old Springbank.
• 47:43
  Wow.
• 47:44
  This is the Artful Dodger, which is the independent bottling brand that bottled the Springbank.
• 47:52
  So I believe this is a single cask of 18 year old Springbank, 45% alcohol.
• 47:57
  Sorry, so just so I understand, Springbank is a distillery that makes the whisky.
• 48:02
  That's right.
• 48:02
  But Artful Dodger is the bottler.
• 48:04
  Like does Springbank also bottle their own?
• 48:06
  Do they sell their own label?
• 48:08
  Yeah, so Springbank does their own core range, 12, 15, et cetera.
• 48:12
  Cause like McAllen, I know McAllen.
• 48:14
  Yeah, so Springbank, McAllen, these are the distilleries themselves, the brands who make it.
• 48:19
  Casks end up on secondary market where people- Like you have them.
• 48:23
  So we have Halcyon, which is our independent bottling brand.
• 48:26
  So this would be Halcyon, Springbank, but bottled by Halcyon.
• 48:30
  It could be.
• 48:30
  This is an Artful Dodger, yeah.
• 48:31
  Yeah, I mean, just I understand.
• 48:32
  Exactly.
• 48:33
  And that's the same relationship.
• 48:34
  What does Dodger means?
• 48:36
  I don't know.
• 48:36
  Artful Dodger was just kind of their fun with it.
• 48:40
  Oh, it's a character from Oliver Twist.
• 48:42
  There we go.
• 48:43
  We are not very literary.
• 48:46
  Shit, turns out.
• 48:48
  We're not British at all.
• 48:49
  We don't know anything about Artful Dodger.
• 48:51
  Oliver Twist.
• 48:52
  We're not very literary.
• 48:53
  We're going to have to go read up.
• 48:53
  Too bad, okay.
• 48:54
  So this whisky, let's do a little review.
• 48:56
  I love the nose on this whisky.
• 48:58
  You're getting complexity.
• 49:00
  You're getting nuttiness.
• 49:02
  You're getting, yeah, this is the kind of whisky, to be honest, I could just sit and just nose for 10 minutes and just be in a very, very happy place by myself with me and just this whisky, so.
• 49:16
  And then on the palate, oh, it's just so smooth, so well-rounded, so it's just so delicate.
• 49:25
  And for me, I get that second note.
• 49:27
  very tertiary kind of notes. I love that it's got a long finish. It's just for me perfectly put together. Like there's nothing wrong with that whisky. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm gonna give it a solid nine. Probably my highest rating. Highest rating so far. Very biased.
• 49:46
  Love Springbank. Love this particular expression of Springbank. What are your thoughts?
• 49:57
  Out of 10 what would you give this bad boy? No I'm also noticing because I'm fairly new, I'm also noticing a difference between the Japanese whisky. Very different I'd say. Yes.
• 50:10
  Yeah. Very very different. The mouth is different. The way it lingers is different. So the Japanese I would say great. Without knowing how to explain this. No I think you're doing a great job. I think Yamazaki, the reason I would. Yamazaki was lovely but this was. I would recommend people start with Yamazaki because it's a little bit lighter. Yes. A little bit more delicate. It's a good way to start and then kind of continuing that journey it's like okay now you're ready for hey look.
• 50:34
  Like I'm growing up. Yeah like hey look what's around you know door number two.
• 50:39
  There's even more. Do I take the red pee or the blue pee? Well a bit of both. So yeah what would you give this this lovely in your opinion now that I've biased you? You did bias me but it's not a nine for me. I think but again I think it's I also think it's because where we are where I am on my whisky journey I'm gonna give it an 8.3. All right very good. I love how we can have points. Before I was like why do we need points but I get it. Yeah eight and nine's not quite you know there's a lot of range there between eight and nine. So I think you gotta give it something in between. It's not an 8.5. No it's a point it's a 0.3 for you. Fantastic.
• 51:17
  The great thing about our rating system is you don't have to justify it to anyone. It's your rating. You give it what you want. But see I still like the smear the nose here. Anyway sorry we're moved on. Oh it's good. Carry on. Yes. So look so we talked about good customer experience.
• 51:32
  We've talked about bad customer experience. We've talked about kind of so and you talked about at the beginning you know it's not like you study customer experience. That's not something that and I just I'm probably sure even today you don't really like undergrad. I don't think you study customer experience. But it's the core of every product and service in the world. Yeah. Every product and service in the world if you're selling it or representing it in any way you should care about customer experience. This is the top of the pyramid. Right. So if you are someone let's say younger today or even maybe further in your career but you want to get into customer experience. Yeah.
• 52:11
  What's your advice for someone like that. And tell us maybe first your story from 2010. How did you create this role in customer experience at Pure Fitness. You know I think we didn't we didn't have a chance to share a little bit of the history but I think it would relate to something because you know how you grew up also watching your dad run his own business. Yep. And how he answered the phone or dealt with customers even his phone. I grew up my dad had a general store.
• 52:40
  Had a what store. A general store. Literally back in the day was a general store. Yeah. Everything they sell like any or I don't know when I'm sure you still go to India where they have a bit of toys. They have stationery. They have buttons. You can buy needle and thread. You can buy pencils and butter at the same store. No food. No food. No food. But we had men's everything. Right.
• 53:04
  All dry goods. No food. Okay. And I remember because we used to go as children. My mom would take when they were all doing inventory back then was all by hand counting every single thing. But one thing I remember very very distinctively my dad had that store for 15 years. So before I was born he had he started the store and then until you know and he knew all the all the customers that came in. Hi. How are you? How's the children? How is the nephew? How is the grandkid?
• 53:38
  Oh you're coming back. Oh did that suit blah blah blah. They used to. And all just from memory.
• 53:43
  There was no CRM. There was no computer. He was just smart and paid attention. Yes. And and you know back in the day sometimes people could people that he trust could keep tabs on the old black book. Yeah. And and you had like he also had something that you could change the zipper or stuff. So it was we would call that a generous store back in the day in countries like Philippines still my sister. So I've watched from you know what always matter is he cared. He cared and he still up to this day my dad became like a salesman of well he's retired now but that attention to detail by knowing his customers and also being in touch with his suppliers.
• 54:24
  Right. Do you think that kind of somehow?
• 54:27
  A hundred percent.
• 54:28
  So my advice is, A, you need to like people.
• 54:32
  You need to be curious.
• 54:33
  I've always been very curious from a young age.
• 54:36
  I like to observe.
• 54:37
  I like to ask questions.
• 54:38
  I want to learn. I ask a gazillion questions.
• 54:40
  I've always been the one like in the first row, in the back row.
• 54:43
  So I'm starting to understand what about this, what about that?
• 54:45
  So curiosity makes for a very good, a very good customer experience professional, but also because customer experience about human behavior.
• 54:55
  And sideway that I got here was I also worked with a market research company and I got to learn about what, how do you ask the questions, right?
• 55:05
  A lot of the quality of the answers depends on also the quality of the questions.
• 55:08
  And by the way, you're very good in asking questions, Rickesh.
• 55:11
  Well, thank you.
• 55:12
  But I agree with that.
• 55:13
  It's all about asking the right question and tying that because you could ask a bunch of questions and learn nothing, especially if you did a survey.
• 55:21
  If you don't, like every word matters in that, in the way you frame.
• 55:26
  In the way you frame, right.
• 55:28
  So you asked me, like, what would be the advice?
• 55:31
  The advice would be, A, I like to fix things.
• 55:33
  I like to solve problems.
• 55:35
  So, I mean, really, I, this whole thing in customer experience is about you're the fixer.
• 55:41
  You're the one that anticipate customer need is a huge thing.
• 55:45
  So proactive.
• 55:47
  Don't be reactive to customers, like fix things before.
• 55:51
  Yes, what you just shared also about even going back to black sheep, right.
• 55:55
  Or even at the examples that we've had, there's something about know your customer, right.
• 55:59
  And it's about you do the background, you do your research.
• 56:02
  Be curious, be interested.
• 56:04
  You know, it's not rocket science.
• 56:06
  Yes, there are metrics.
• 56:08
  Yes, there are certain tools and some frameworks that we work in customer experience, such as journey mapping, which is not really simply, if you were to open a shop now, how do you envision your customers coming through?
• 56:21
  You have a different type of business, but it's the same applies.
• 56:25
  Even online, you got to think about their journey.
• 56:28
  Think about, well, your business here.
• 56:30
  Yeah.
• 56:31
  I don't know if I can say it, I don't know if I can say it.
• 56:33
  Significance.
• 56:34
  Significance.
• 56:36
  Oh, my God, I can't say it.
• 56:38
  It's not, we're not going to do well in Brazil, I feel.
• 56:43
  I think you've just given us some customer insight.
• 56:46
  This is not a business that's going to do well.
• 56:49
  COS, Cost of Significance.
• 56:51
  In Brazil, it would be, if I say, de significance, it works a hundred percent.
• 56:58
  And I get it. My point is, you also have to think about the journey.
• 57:01
  Who is this for? Who is your customer?
• 57:03
  Yeah.
• 57:04
  And also the other point is there's always more the ecosystem of your customer.
• 57:08
  So when I say anticipating the needs, I'm not just, even with the current business that I'm in, we're not just for the person that came to sign the gym membership.
• 57:17
  They have a mother or father.
• 57:20
  Like, did they come with the mom?
• 57:22
  Did they come with the, did I come with my husband?
• 57:24
  Is he also into it?
• 57:25
  Because you are serving an individual that's part of a whole ecosystem.
• 57:30
  So when I think about a journey map, and this is, journey map is one of the frameworks that we use for customer experience.
• 57:37
  Customer persona, journey matters.
• 57:40
  So all this stuff is key.
• 57:41
  Is there good frameworks to help you understand your customer?
• 57:44
  Exactly. And that applies to every business.
• 57:45
  So one of the things that we do is actually the extended persona, where you actually put, you imagine your customer.
• 57:53
  Oh, but your customer also has a wife at home.
• 57:56
  Or, you know, if in your business, oh, oh, who is he buying?
• 58:01
  Is it the grandfather that he's buying from?
• 58:03
  So all of that.
• 58:04
  So curiosity, for sure.
• 58:06
  Curiosity about human behavior.
• 58:08
  Do you like solve problems?
• 58:09
  Do you like, do you like to delight and trying to be like, I think to be a lot of nurturing in the way I relate. You're my friend.
• 58:18
  You've probably seen this many times when I'm trying to, it's not that I'm trying to tell people what to do.
• 58:23
  It's like, have you tried this?
• 58:24
  Sometimes you are trying to tell people what to do, let's be honest.
• 58:27
  Now, yes, I get what you're saying.
• 58:29
  You're trying to help people.
• 58:30
  He worked with whisky and finished.
• 58:33
  Yeah, I think you're trying to help.
• 58:34
  Yeah. So that's always coming from a good place.
• 58:37
  From a good place.
• 58:38
  So I think those are characteristics that goes a long way.
• 58:41
  And quite frankly, if you ask me, I think every business, every industry can benefit from more heart in what we do, whether it's banking.
• 58:50
  Oh, OK, I'm sorry.
• 58:52
  Definitely banking.
• 58:53
  I was going to say a little, actually, it's very apt.
• 58:57
  Can I share one thing here?
• 58:59
  Interesting, because I, real quick, just last month, I was, I have money just sitting in my bank account that I want to invest.
• 59:06
  And I have a few things.
• 59:08
  Maybe I should start talking to you.
• 59:09
  But on purpose, I reach out to HSBC.
• 59:14
  I went to figure out, hey, I have a couple of, you know, that I want to invest.
• 59:21
  should I do? I already have certain things.
• 59:24
  And this is the third and last time I gave HSBC a chance.
• 59:29
  I'm amazed you gave them one chance.
• 59:31
  I've been with HSBC since the day I arrived in Hong Kong.
• 59:34
  In Hong Kong, you have to be with HSBC.
• 59:36
  It's not a choice.
• 59:38
  Guess what? They suck.
• 59:39
  Yeah, they suck.
• 59:41
  I mean, they literally, the guy had, and it's not about language barrier, because by God, man, you're speaking.
• 59:48
  There was no like, ah, so, so you have your portfolio.
• 59:52
  What do you invest? What are you interested in?
• 59:55
  What's your return expectation?
• 59:57
  It was literally like, oh, is it you have, what, three million you want to invest?
• 1:00:03
  Oh, well, is it you literally with this kind of, oh, here is, you need another life insurance policy, you need them.
• 1:00:09
  And I'm like, no, I don't.
• 1:00:11
  I don't. I told you I already have one with this company.
• 1:00:14
  A, I have cryptocurrency.
• 1:00:15
  I'm looking for something else that I can.
• 1:00:17
  So I left, I sat in, I was so, I was a waste of time.
• 1:00:22
  I hate it. I get every, I think it's anywhere between six and 12 months.
• 1:00:28
  I get a new premium relationship.
• 1:00:31
  Yeah, and you're like, I don't need you.
• 1:00:34
  They introduce themselves.
• 1:00:36
  They send me a text. Yes.
• 1:00:37
  Shall we meet? I ignore it.
• 1:00:39
  And then they go away.
• 1:00:40
  They really don't try at all.
• 1:00:43
  I sought it.
• 1:00:44
  So this is where I really think they're missing out.
• 1:00:48
  Now, you know where they do good, a good job is for high net worth individuals.
• 1:00:53
  Because they care more.
• 1:00:55
  Well, but also because I know a couple of British folks.
• 1:00:58
  There are those relationships you manage, but you're talking about more than 10 million.
• 1:01:02
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:01:04
  But they're missing out because there are a few people like myself that you kind of like, well, I'm not 10 million US to invest, but I, you know, you got something.
• 1:01:11
  So that's a bad customer experience.
• 1:01:13
  I agree. All right.
• 1:01:14
  Whisky number four.
• 1:01:22
  Now we're going so we've been doing bottles so far.
• 1:01:25
  We're going to go over to a cask.
• 1:01:27
  So and now it's a single malt.
• 1:01:29
  Oh, that one was also single malt.
• 1:01:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:33
  So the Yamazaki and the Springbank were both single malt.
• 1:01:36
  The first was a blend.
• 1:01:38
  But our fourth whisky here, Altamore, is a Speyside and single malt distillery.
• 1:01:43
  Not they don't do a lot of bottlings.
• 1:01:45
  I think a lot of Altamore ends up in blends.
• 1:01:48
  So most of so you maybe not have heard of Altamore.
• 1:01:50
  They don't. So when you say it was a cask, the other ones had bottled this one is still in the cask.
• 1:01:56
  So this is a sample we've drawn directly from the cask.
• 1:02:00
  It's our cask. It's sitting in Scotland.
• 1:02:02
  We love this cask. So this is a 1990.
• 1:02:04
  That's why you see it doesn't have an age statement on it, but it has a year.
• 1:02:08
  So the year signifies 1990.
• 1:02:10
  That's the year it was distilled.
• 1:02:11
  So that's the year it was put in the cask.
• 1:02:14
  It hasn't been bottled yet.
• 1:02:15
  So there is no age.
• 1:02:17
  Oh, wow.
• 1:02:18
  So far, we're 35, just turning into 36 years old with this cask.
• 1:02:23
  If we want to go further, this will usually be a 40 year old or, you know, who knows?
• 1:02:27
  We'll kind of find out now.
• 1:02:29
  Share with me here, though, you said the Altamore, they don't usually bottle.
• 1:02:37
  So they sell the cask to other bottles or to blenders.
• 1:02:41
  Yes, so they're part of a group.
• 1:02:44
  Altamore is part of Diageo group.
• 1:02:46
  I think so. And Altamore is part of Diageo.
• 1:02:48
  Diageo makes Johnny Walker.
• 1:02:50
  And so a large part of it goes into some recipe for something to do with Johnny Walker somewhere, is my guess.
• 1:02:58
  My guess is like Johnny Walker, a black label.
• 1:03:00
  Yeah, or a blue label or whatever.
• 1:03:02
  Right. So or green, I don't know.
• 1:03:04
  They don't really publish.
• 1:03:06
  As far as I know, they don't really officially publish what goes into it.
• 1:03:10
  That's the secret recipe.
• 1:03:11
  But there's a lot of guesses out there.
• 1:03:13
  And a lot of people know a lot about that.
• 1:03:16
  So this is unique to be able to try just them.
• 1:03:18
  So this is just. Yeah.
• 1:03:19
  So I wanted to give you a different experience.
• 1:03:22
  This is a cask sample.
• 1:03:24
  So this to me is what I would describe as classic space site.
• 1:03:28
  So space site is Sherry.
• 1:03:29
  Think McAllen, Glenn Livet, Glenn Fittick, all the all the Glenns.
• 1:03:33
  Every Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn.
• 1:03:35
  Yeah. Anything that starts with Glenn, because all the distilleries set up around there or were set up near the near the river space, so space site is where the region gets its name from.
• 1:03:46
  So for me.
• 1:03:49
  This is delicate, interesting, a lot of obviously the sherry, honey, a little bit of cinnamon kind of style to it and then just well rounded.
• 1:04:04
  And this is obviously, you know, the ones we've tried, let's say the first whisky was maybe between three and six years old, mostly with a little bit.
• 1:04:11
  Then we went to 12 and we went to 18.
• 1:04:14
  And now we're up at like thirty five, thirty six.
• 1:04:16
  So we've gone on quite.
• 1:04:17
  quite a unique journey here of different whiskys. I really like this whisky. I think it's a great whisky. For me, the Springbank just has a much better edge to it and more complexity.
• 1:04:32
  The Altmore, look, if you gave me the Altmore on its own, I'm loving it, but I'm doing a little bit of a comparison here. Maybe for better or worse, I would give this a solid 8.3.
• 1:04:47
  Oh, you like my 8.3. Okay, can I? I must say I actually like the nose of the Springbank better.
• 1:04:55
  Okay. The nose itself. I agree. Meaning that it was a lot more smoother and I could, yeah. So what would you give this one out of a 10?
• 1:05:06
  If your Springbank was 8.3, where are you going here?
• 1:05:17
  The Altmore 1990 straight out of the cask. You're not going to like, I mean, but just your rating. Yeah, it's a little, to me, the finish on this one is, it's got a bit of a bite.
• 1:05:28
  Yes. Harsher. Yeah, it is. I agree. The Springbank was a smoother. So, but since it's 30 something years, I feel I need to pay homage. So I'm going to give 8.5.
• 1:05:40
  Wow. You're giving a higher score. Okay. Interesting. All right. Last topic that I wanted to delve into something I know you've been studying and learning about design thinking.
• 1:05:51
  So let's start with the simplest of questions. What is design thinking? Yeah. What is it?
• 1:05:56
  That's a good question. Design thinking is a way to solve problems, any problem. So design thinking, it's a, it's a framework. There's a framework where you basically start with the customer, the end user, not the customer, the end user in mind for whatever you're doing, which is why I love, because it applies, it's very much tied to the whole customer experience discipline. The best example, and this is a textbook example of design thinking, is the following. When MRI machines just started, sorry, it started when the MRI machines were invented and they were already in hospitals. They were, they're still loud, but they were even louder and a bit scary, right? They were huge. You'd have to put your whole body in just to do a scan of your hip or whatever. But now they're much better because they're, yeah, they're still, you still go in, but you know, the, the technology side, right? The technology has gotten better, but the loud noise. So for children to go in, it was very traumatic. Here's one thing, one, um, so this was in, I want to say, I think it was in Holland. I want to say it's either Holland or Denmark, and I can't remember exactly, but, um, a designer, if you're, if you're a Dutch or Danish, leave us a comment. Yeah, no, sorry. But the textbook example is this, um, it was a doctor that, uh, because they had to, uh, they had to sedate children before the children went to the machine because they would be like, so like, so anxious. And you have to, you have to stay still for like a few minutes. Correct. Well, and it takes a while, right? And even, so the children would be very, so in the pediatric, pediatric hospital. So, so what'd they do? They did, uh, this is a design thinking in action. A doctor worked with a designer, um, somebody, somebody that studied ways of solving problems. And they, what they did is they decorated the room. They painted the machine like a submarine and they decorated the room like a whole ocean thing.
• 1:08:08
  And they told the story, Oh, you're going on a big adventure. I know now it's common. A lot of children's hospital has that, but that was the first real example of design thinking. Now they try what design thinking does is you think you see what a problem is in this case was, um, children are scared and you have to sedate them. It's very hard to get them to use the CT scan, MRI machine. The machines are still big and can be scary. What is the problem? How might we, and the design thinking used a lot of this, how might we question, how, how might we, uh, make this a more comfortable experience for children? Let's tell a story. What if we make this a journey and that, that's, and you, the, the number of, you stop before, let's say, if you had to sedate three out of 10 kids, the sedation rate went down, like to only one per 10 kids. So because telling this story and calming, and there was design thinking applied, right? So, because who was the user, whoever designed the machine, nobody.
• 1:09:14
  was just it was very sterile and cold. Maybe that works for adults, but not for children.
• 1:09:20
  So that is a very good example.
• 1:09:21
  That's a great example. That's an absolutely great example. I love it. Well, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure and I hope you've enjoyed a bit of the whisky journey.
• 1:09:31
  We're going to end with the long time coming. We'll be talking about it. So we're very excited.
• 1:09:38
  And obviously, we'll hopefully have you back again and continue to update us on your customer experience journey. We're going to end with the same question I ask every guest. What's one thing you're working on personally or professionally that you're most excited about for the next 12 months? What's going on in your world?
• 1:09:58
  Oh, 2026.
• 1:09:59
  What's going on in your world that you're most excited about?
• 1:10:02
  Professionally, there are two things. One is a project that I can't, but I don't want because it's more of like a long term. Whenever I retired, a few things that I want to do, which would be that I'm starting to work it out. Yes. Work and warm up and develop the idea better in the project. But there are good things. The market now, as far as being more realistic to my actual role and what I'm doing here for this year, our markets continue to evolve. And when I say the market, I mean the health and wellness. Fitness is no longer what it used to be. It's not just go to the gym. There are tons of options. Hong Kong, we've been inundated with different 24-7 small gyms, so the consumer has changed. So for us, a big thing for me now, it's also work with colleagues about what makes us different in terms of like, what is the journey? What is the story that we are telling?
• 1:11:04
  The differentiator.
• 1:11:06
  The differentiator we tell that appear. And there's also a lot more, a huge emphasis on recovery. And so it's not, it's no surprise, the whole thing with cold plunge and whatnot, but it goes beyond that. There's a lot more information about, I know you had that not too long ago. There's a lot more focus and more awareness into taking ownership of your own health, right? And longevity. Huge, huge topic. We'll have you back for a whole episode on that.
• 1:11:38
  We should go on with that and talk about this because the point is, for me, is customer experience goes into that because more and more, you also need to understand how do we educate customers on what longevity is or what the offering is. And we have diversified certain things with Pure. We launched Reset, which is a huge, Reset is a huge focus on recovery.
• 1:12:00
  On a personal note, this year, I'm turning 50. So I'm planning my party.
• 1:12:06
  Yeah, I hope to be there. It's gonna be...
• 1:12:08
  You better, you know you better.
• 1:12:09
  I mean, that's gonna be a big one. We'll have to get some 50 year old whisky for you.
• 1:12:13
  That's right. And it's gonna be...
• 1:12:15
  Which is the only way to celebrate turning 50. You gotta have something as old as you, that's aged.
• 1:12:20
  Exactly. I'm not old.
• 1:12:21
  Beautifully and gracefully as you have. Not old. So we'll make sure we organize that for you. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast and taking the time to be here. I really learned a lot about, well, customer experience, as we said, it's part of everyone's life. You're a customer every single day. And whatever business you're working at, you should care about your customer.
• 1:12:44
  100%.
• 1:12:45
  So this is a topic I hope that resonates with a lot of people. And it was really fascinating to hear some of the experiences you've had both from what is bad customer experience, what is good customer experience. And I'm really fascinated. I think we could have talked a lot more about design thinking too. But I love that example. And really trying to, you know, how do you solve a problem from maybe a different point of view or a different framework. So as always, the whisky's never finished. And there's a conversation.
• 1:13:13
  Our conversation for sure.
• 1:13:14
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:13:15
  Thank you so much. I'm super excited.
• 1:13:18
  So this is a tradition we have here on the show.
• 1:13:21
  Good.
• 1:13:21
  Where every guest that we've had, hopefully that works, sign your name on the glass, and we will add it to our collection.
• 1:13:28
  Anywhere, just anywhere?
• 1:13:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:31
  But before I sign, I want to say thank you so much. I am, I'm super excited because we've talked so much about this. And it's I'm very proud of you and what you've, you've worked and you put together. And honestly, it's, it's an honor.
• 1:13:45
  Yeah, we appreciate it. It's fun. It's gonna be fun to get it out there.
• 1:13:49
  Hey guys, Rickesh here, the Whisky Chief. Firstly, thanks so much for watching this episode. It really means a lot to us. If you can like and subscribe below, it just really helps us to keep bringing you the best whiskys in the world.
• 1:14:00
  So long, and I'll talk to you soon.