Latest / Second Nature / E187 Katie Neck & Elena Doms: Building A Movement

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E187 Katie Neck & Elena Doms: Building A Movement · Second Nature

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: We are in London for Climate Week.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is a mile 30 a lot degrees outside.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm joined by two literal celebs of the sustainable world.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hello both.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why on earth are we across in London?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: What was it about Climate Week that makes you select this in your diary to come across?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hometown, obviously.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing energy.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: This year, I've just felt the shift.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really have.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: The conversation had all I have to say, maybe two years ago, I didn't, I just like I can't, I can't sit in another panel that's talking about we must do this, we must do that.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um this year has been, this is what we've done, and these are the results.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's been commercially led.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's been incredible.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this just sets the tone for the rest of the year going into New York Climate Week and going into the remainder of the year.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it gives everyone a little bit of optimism.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And ironically, it's the hottest day of the year in London, so you know it gives us all a little purpose.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the climate's clearing its throat, go yep, there's a sign here.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, Mother Nature, for for bringing us that.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Elena, you've you've done tons of these in different places.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about London that that really speaks to you?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, Katie's here and she made it all the way from the US.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we really wanted to meet Katie in person.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Second, I mean the breadth of the event, the level of the people, the places you can go to, the the difference of the players that are present from investors to corporates to startups and scale-ups to politicians who are doing something, just this wide scope and and the calibre of people that are here makes it all worth it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think Casey, you're absolutely right about it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: It feels different this year.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's bigger.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's thousands of events, so many people, so much momentum, but it isn't that um victim sad mopey mindset anymore.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: It is proactive and and results-oriented and commercial and driven.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you think we're there?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm I'm happy we are.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: What's changed, do you think, to bring that about?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've all been working very hard.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've all been so determined.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think um we are coming out of a really uh tough patch.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the uh excuses of geopolitics have been exactly that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: No one's been listening to it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've been head down, quietly getting on with it, and we've come out of quite a well, we're still, you know, arguably in it somewhat, but I think um the the we had uh COP here uh in the early 20s, was it 2021, 2022?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everything has been joyfully going along.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then we had big uh put um politics changes in the world, uh, and that took us down into a pretty dark place for everyone.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh big changes obviously in the US.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're coming out of it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone has seen that actually it wasn't as bad as we all had anticipated.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that uh as uh Al Gore said, not my words, that uh someone is driving the wrong way down the motorway as you do when you get older and um maybe a bit senile.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's exactly what's happening, and we're uh we're all going in the right direction.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I almost think the counter-cultural push in in the US has been positive for Europe and the UK.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we were out in Rome last week at a conference, a huge amount of Americans there talking about climate and nature, and there's been an American voice in every event.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, we've done like seven or eight with like live Q ⁇ A's from the audience, and there's been an American question from every audience so far.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think actually Trump's been good for the sector in terms of like reconsolidating, maybe not in the US.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it's challenging.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel different culturally being back across here to being where home is at the moment?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I think uh I think everyone's got a very different opinion of the US than what I'm living, uh, because there's no stopping, there's there's no slowdown.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yes, there's headlines, um, but they're seeing headlines about England.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're asking me if the streets are really full of gangs and blah, blah, blah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, no, no.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this week it's full of lovely people doing sustainability roles.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're we're both seeing uh these worst parts of the country.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, if I may say so, the World Cup, I'm I'm in Miami, so host city of the World Cup, has been amazing because you have every um every different shirt, every different country, people of all ages, and everyone's getting along with each other.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think that the Americans needed that because they're seeing every culture just get along with each other.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Scots have been obviously the highlight of every um game that they've been to.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Americans have just been reminded that the problem isn't actually uh on the ground, grassroots.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: The problems are pretty arbitrary and sometimes made up for whatever whatever purpose.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think there's a bit of optimism with the World Cup naturally.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I'm back here, uh it's good to hear American voices, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're commercial and everything is around capital.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've really enjoyed being there because that's always been the language that I've spoken, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: We can't just do things because they're nice.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, Elena, with your background, like everything has to have a commercial gain, everything has to be commercial.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So being in the US suits me a lot sometimes, and coming back here, hearing these conversations, it's just been it's been fantastic.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: It does feel so we um we had a live podcast recording on Monday morning, and as we stepped on stage, Keir Steimer resigned.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, as he steps on stage.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, being in London for Climate This Week feels somewhat like a very warm bubble, but no one seems to care about the politics anywhere.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone is focused on the impact they're able to have.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um is it is fascinating.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: It does feel like it's compounded.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you both have been in and around the sustainability space for a long time now.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: How how has it changed over the sort of chapter that you define your period in it?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, Elena, how long would you say since you stepped out of your sort of finance career into sustainability?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I need to remember my math.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at heart, like I was at sustainability ever since university.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if you count properly work-wise, I would say more than five years.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way the sector changed reflects um what Katie and you said about getting things done, because it used to be about we have to do this, it's the right thing to do, and everyone was on top of it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Then politics shifted, things started going in the wrong direction, and we just had to get things done no matter what.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And to get those things done, we had to speak investors' language, finance language, corporate language to see how that would be a value add, not just a moral argument.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why there is so much emphasis on action and this what has been done, and these are the results, because we finally learned to have that switch on how to actually bring everyone together and do things no matter what.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are you seeing?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my journey's been very different to yours.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um I my career was selling sponsorship.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was at at Gartner, which is a big uh tech consulting firm.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then I moved to Formula One working in technical partnerships.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I I always loved nature, of course, and respected it, but never ever was uh knew that this would be my career.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um in 2019 with the Formula One team, uh McLaren and I was working at, we were stuck in a category two typhoon.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this was my moment where I was like, wait, what?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't we expect this?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't we well we knew it was happening, but we weren't prepared.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So sponsors then lost value because their logos weren't on the car, on the TV, their guests couldn't come into the race.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a value missing, and and that was a financial risk, operational risk.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um that was in 2019.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Then I started to really upskill myself and understand: okay, is this sustainability or ESG and what's the difference?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what and how bad is climate change?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, and and then COP came to um Glasgow, and um the timing was incredible.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously McLaren is a massive brand with lots of influence.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So my journey into this has been really commercial um and really looking at business risk and operational risk.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I was translating this sustainability language that wasn't business language, and now it seems to actually finally be coming together.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think um because you came at the sustainability side of things from a commercial lens and from a partnership lens, do you think that's why you were able to be successful at McLaren?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because I figure if you'd have tried to come with a pure nature campaigning approach, I just can't imagine how those two worlds would have coexisted.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a good question, Rich.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that um uh we were successful at McLaren because uh McLaren was always gonna be successful under the new leadership, and you know, they're championship winners now.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh there was value in it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: There was value in co-developing, there was value in innovation.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you give an engineer a challenge, they're gonna they're gonna try and solve it, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the challenge is how to make a Formula One car more circular, the challenge is reducing waste, the challenge is measuring our energy usage around the building.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the environment already in Formula One is actually quite receptive to uh problem solving and doing things quickly.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then it's like you would ask um perhaps some people to not fly business class if you're flying, you know, only a short while to a race, and that that's a more challenging conversation to have.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you get there, and uh I think when you're traveling the world, like we did, well, they still do, like I did, um, when you're traveling the world like that, you are exposed to everything.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So in the Middle East, uh the the races are at night time because it's cooler at night time.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in Imala, you know, the uh circuit was flooded a few years ago.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in Singapore, it's just I don't know, I don't know how they sit in the cars with all their gear on.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it's so incredibly hot there and very, very humid.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the weather and the conditions around the track literally inform the strategy.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: They literally inform what decisions are made.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the environmental conditions are such a key part of the sport that actually when you talk about a changing climate and the variables of climate change, it's already native to a lot of people there.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: It it sounds like the the sort of the access point, the way into those challenges to the team, it was about performance and commercial and achievements and speed on the track.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you were using that as the outcome to get the changes that you were looking for from an environmental and sustainability perspective, rather than it being a moral issue or the right thing to do?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 100%.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a if there was a carbon saving, there'd be a cost saving.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: If we could make things lighter because they're more efficient, less material or or different material, uh, then there's more milliseconds per lap time.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So or save per lap time.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but that was my native language, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I love it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's the way if you'd have gone in there with this is terrible, this is moral outrage, we shouldn't be doing this, no one had changed anything.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: You would have pushed people away rather than brought them in.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh listen, I'd been in the team for a long time, so had really solid relationships.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was very technical and looking at the operations of the team before that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I did have nicknames, of course, and like I was the anomaly.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so but just get on with it, you know, you just smile and get things done.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's what we did.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so proud of what the team is doing uh and and the way that we left things there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it it's incredible to see.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Formula One as a sport obviously is not synonymous with anything that's uh sustainable, but really it's only 0.7% of the actual Formula One cars that's the uh emissions.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is logistics, every like all the races, all the people, the equipment.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Eleanor, one one of the things that you've done probably better than anyone else I've seen is combine commercial acumen and narrative, but also with hearts and minds as well.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: How do you decide which of those you'll pull on depending on the audience you're talking to?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's exactly that, depending on who you're talking to.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's investors, finance people, corporates, then you pull out the corporate language.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: If it's the people that are just passionate and want to do good, you lead with a different approach.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Always there has to be a story, and always there is a mix of people in the room, so that's why I add both the heart and the head every time I go somewhere.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I really love how you describe what you did at Formula One because to me it almost felt like you're describing levels of a video game, you know, like more efficiency, get one second up.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It it it felt almost fun.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I want to be in that, I really want to get these things done because it's fun to do this, and that's what we are missing in the sector as well, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: The language so people understand it and business decisions get done, but also the joy.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: The the sector is so heavy because we are pulled down by the news, and it's difficult.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and right, that's why we have a psychologist in in the team, which is pretty amazing because it's a difficult space to work at.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, head of people's got a PhD in performance psychology.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, don't play poker with him.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we need to do.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: We need to create more joy around the work that we are doing.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: We need to have fun.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a marathon, it's not a sprint.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And to figure things out, to stay resilient, to get things done no matter what, we need to learn how to have fun too.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's felt different this week.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So even the structure of events.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So two or three years ago in the environment sector, everything would have been a standard issue sit-down discussion round table or a panel where people did monologue.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I did one a couple of years ago where I agreed to join a panel and each person spoke for 15 minutes and the thing ended.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like four individual monologues.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for coming.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I was falling asleep and I was on the panel.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the worst thing ever.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas this week we've seen simulated debates and live podcast recordings and theatrical performances, and that fun and joy has become part of the narrative.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Has that changed in terms of the tools and techniques you use to communicate around the issues?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um Has it changed?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been myself, uh, to be honest, which is extremely authentic, sometimes to my detriment, I'd say.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't let that one go by.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: When when's when's being authentic not the right answer?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I've always been energetic and enthusiastic, and and I get called enthusiastic all the time, which I am, like there's no denying it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it is, but you know, that this is like serious stuff that we're talking about.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes like enthusiasm isn't always the right energy that you need in the room.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um I know what energy I bring, and I uh I'm not really one to change or or adapt.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll bring people in around me that are totally different to me and that have got different qualities and different characteristics.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what you're you're right about that point?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember early in my career in the public sector, they would accuse you if they wanted to undercut you about something, they would accuse you of being overly enthusiastic or too positive about something.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been it's been a decade since I I heard that narrative.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: I suppose perhaps different rooms as well, because early in your career you you're not the most senior person in the room.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas now, most of the rooms you're in, people are coming to hear you speak and to be guided by you.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: So does that allow you to be freer in how you communicate now, do you think?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I would say so.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you listening, that was a heck of a smile.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: That was a knowing, yeah, it does.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh I think uh that's a different mentality as well.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh Emma Greed famously has said that uh she's had to move from an employee mindset into a founder mindset, and like there's no manual.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is a realization that sometimes new founders uh never get told.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm grateful to have heard that, you know, a few months ago.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but having an employee mindset where you're a bit censored, you've got the brand tone, you need to keep the tone right.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And now we just we do the right thing, we do what we feel is right, and maybe that's the enthusiasm doing what is is feeling right, but we're our our business is people, you know, we're we're upskilling human beings in uh an anxious world, in a world that's constantly changing, in a world where people are feeling very behind, especially in AI.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we're doing what we feel is right and we're dealing with people.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um we adapt very quickly to the situation that we're in.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: But bringing the right people around us is is our our teams are amazing.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of adaptation, you've you've worked in some of the biggest corporates on the planet, you've founded your own business, and now you're part of OC.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: How have when you've worn each of those different hats, how has that felt different in terms of communicating?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's changed how you've communicated in each different role?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or definitely.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I just started my corporate career, and before the corporate career, I was actually reflecting on it uh last week in Rome.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was a lot braver.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was leading a youth organization of 500 people in in Belgium, and I mean, of course you were, like, of course you were.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, doing workshops and I was doing keynotes and I was guiding a team, and everything felt like easy to dare.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then you step into a corporate world, and and my thought was if I just work hard enough, like an overwork, um, I'll I'll get how beautiful is it easy to dare a phrase.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's gorgeous.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, isn't it harder to dare at some point when you get older?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: You still dare a lot, but but somehow there is like a layer where you have to tell yourself, no, that's what I want to do.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've never felt it easier than now.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the team.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm blessed with the people we have around us.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: It just makes it easier to do.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, climate.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're gonna have done 48 events as a team.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have done 13 of those personally.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I just arrive at one and get to talk to wonderful people, and the magic happens around me.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I it's so easy to thank you to the people in the room.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're all amazing.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I I appreciate that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, beautiful phrase.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: So easy to dare in chapter one, and then you step into the corporate world and it becomes about hard work and the grind.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hard work, and then at some point you realize you're stuck and you cannot move if you don't learn how to communicate, not just in your job, but outside of it too, building connections and relationships.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: But still, everything is like what are you allowed to be communicating about?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are you allowed to do?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: All these guidelines, which is normal when you lead a big organization, but then once you step into the entrepreneurial world and scale-ups, you realize actually how hard it is to be in this world because in the corporate world, you have one job that you have to be great at here, you have to do so many different things, and you have to try harder and you have to fail and you have to overcome.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also much more exciting, and you are free with what you want to say and with what you want to do.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever you have an idea, you don't have to go through months of approvals, you just have to go and do it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that that pace, that quickness is really, really exciting.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: You you both have really prominent personal brands in the sector, some of the most famous people working in sustainability.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: How long have you consciously thought about a personal brand and how did you go about beginning to build them?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's no intention at all, to be honest.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um my team are asking to do more TikToks and Instagram, and frankly, I I really don't want to do it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I just want to I just want to get on with it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um I know that I know that being a founder, there's part of um having a profile, but honestly, it's just not it, it's it's not intentional in in the slightest at all.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found it making business easier with a a bigger profile?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you you mentioned about um over the past few years how we've all worked really hard to grow a sector.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Your your brand and your reach has compounded over that time period as well.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it easier to find better partners and clients and collaborators than it was a few years ago when your brand perhaps wasn't as big as it is now?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't really thought about it, Rich.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh what we're able to do uh is challenge ourselves and adapt to more needs because we're we're hearing from uh wider parts of the industry.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when you start when you first start a business, you you are speaking with your network, with your immediate kind of friends and family in the in the industry.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: But as you start to grow, your your um mind is broadened a bit more to what else is going on and these new conversations, and just it just gets more exciting, and I think that's what's compassionate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is more of the context and intelligence and how we can adapt to what other parts of the market are saying.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been great to grow the business, but it's been even better to understand more and more and more every day.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that just makes us in, you know, puts us in a better position because we're constantly talking about skills.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're speaking to a bank about skills, if we're speaking to a manufacturing company about skills, they're going to be different businesses and value chains, but they are the same challenges.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the same challenges.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Elena, yours, your personal brand is ludicrous.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I have had the privilege of walking around Climate Weeks with you and spending most of the time as your um unofficial photographer.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: For people out there at the start of their career, because you've certainly used that to help us get forums and conversations that we wouldn't otherwise.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: What advice would you give a young person thinking about personal brand and how they might want to approach it and whether it is something they want to do or not?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Personal brand is really important in a sense.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I I'll I'll say why I used it, and perhaps that would apply to other people.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, it was really helpful to me to change career path because I was coming from finance and technology, and I really wanted to work in sustainability.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I knew I could um do a lot of things and that I was uh an excellent student and learner and quick and fast, nobody else knew that around me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even though I had a degree, once again, nobody else around knew that about me.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So building personal brand really helps here because you go out there, you communicate, and you tell people what you know about and your perspective on things, and then you build that level of credibility because you can be the best at what you do, but if people don't know that, it doesn't help.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's one.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: The second realization that I had was when I left MasterCard is that Elena Domes at MasterCard is not the same brand as Elena Domes.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have your strong personal brand when you're not backed up by another big brand, then all of a sudden you see how differently the world works and the interest of other people and partners to work with you.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that has been a game changer to understand.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I never wanted to be in that situation where um I say my name and and people don't know me.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, obviously I have a lot of situations like that, but I always wanted to have that strong backing and not know that I'm lost.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted always to have opportunities and to choose those opportunities rather than being chosen.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, in that sense, the advice that I can give to young people is that if there is a space they're really passionate about, if there is a topic they're really passionate about, to start building that brand and communicating.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for me that started uh with LinkedIn and and post and thought leadership, but it also migrated as opportunities came into uh speaking engagements and what do I say on stage and how do I look on stage so that it consistent brand image and by now I'm just really fascinated by it and also the amount of doors that it can open for you.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Did you when you stepped away from McLaren, did um do you experience that same thing where you had to question you as a solo person as opposed to you within the business?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly the same thing, yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I was I was fortunate enough in six years of traveling around with the Formula One team.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh your network is uh incredible, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're hosting C-suite every weekend at the weekend.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting to know them, you're not sat in a boardroom, you're not sat in a meeting.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Totally different.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've got them on WhatsApp, you know.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um the advice and the mentorship that I've been able to receive has been incredible.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the support and backing.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what I would say is um a lot of those people have no social media presence, have no LinkedIn even, but they have a very strong network and um some advice for young people as well as get online, talk about what you want to talk about.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to take that advice myself.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely don't do enough of it, but um, is get to events and meet people in person.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're obviously able to get into bigger and better events, the better online presence you have, but just go to networking events.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's Eventbrite, there's Luma, there's LinkedIn, there's in-person events in cities and towns everywhere.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And actually you show up, you can really like we're coming out of COVID.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was five years ago.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're back, we're back, like there's no more excuses to not be going out and about.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think it's really scary and nerve-wracking.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: The first, you remember the first kind of business networking events that you go to?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Dreadful.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so it's super scary, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And even now, like when you don't know anyone, when we're walking into the room, like you you're just like, okay, I'll just go speak to that person.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so valuable because that's really where a connection happens.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you can meet someone, you know, that you've met online in person eventually, but just having a spark of a random conversation, a random meeting with someone you randomly never know, there's so much power in that.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you get different perspective as well to what you're talking about in your in your kind of realm, in your social media bubble, because you're only speaking to your echo chamber most of the time, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can get to an event, like go and do it, and you never know who you're gonna meet.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my network is random people that I've met randomly, and you just vibe with them, or you've or you can help each other out.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, sometimes that isn't the case, and it's not as efficient as LinkedIn and social media.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you never know, it's overrated, isn't it?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fuck opportunity and serendipity and human, yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: The human connection.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the point of that?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: What I will say is so we we've it must be so challenging as a young person trying to get uh starting in careers at the minute.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: We hear that in lots of different ways, and we'll segue this onto AI, I'm sure.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: We are massively oversubscribed for jobs.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: We get almost a thousand applicants for every entry-level job, which is amazing.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for wanting to be part of the team.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: We've had it this week whereby we'll turn up at events, people know it's an OC event.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have people saying, I really want a job, I've applied for this, I'm gonna apply for your intern programme.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Interns we've got that are starting later this year have been following the team round to events, and that's almost they're self-selecting, turning up is the key.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh I've recently been appointed uh an ambassador to Anthropic, which is uh huge.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: You just have the coolest brand.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know that we spoke about I'm sorry, Rich, don't tell anyone, but it's happening.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but honestly, I I want to be candid about how that how that came about is that I applied with 90,000 other people.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the pool, right?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is your thousand applications that you're getting on LinkedIn.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: We get the same thing, it's overwhelming.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: No one's a winner out of this situation.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want thousand applications because a lot of people are clicking, you don't you can't go through that physically, you can't go through that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't want that either.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So is helping with that process as we speak in terms of our filtering, which is wonderful.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, right now.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I can't wait to get onto it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it uh so yes, I was 90,000 applications.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I knew how on earth are we ever gonna get selected.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I went on Luma, I'm in Miami, there was a an impact event, and my friend was hosting it anyway, so I was aware of it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you can register for free.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no cost, only time.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Time time is invested in this stuff, it's not wasted.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's the phrase.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: But you're absolutely right, you've got to make the investment.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You have to make the investment, and um, they were there.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was an hour early, I made cups of tea, I networked, I made sure that I was speaking to the right people, I showed up and made myself known.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you're nine 90,000.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: How on earth did you manage to secure the partnership?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I turned up and I made cups of tea.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: You must make a great cup of tea.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Britt, you know, English.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, in all seriousness, uh, there was obviously it wasn't making cup of tea.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: It that was just an engage, like a reason to engage, but all the work we'd done prior landed to that moment.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I was intentional.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had every intention of meeting the right people at that event and all of the work that I had done before, months and months and months of AI upskilling, of doing it all for free as well, you know, like we're giving, we're giving a lot of upskilling for free in AI.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I made sure that they they knew that that was what we were doing.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the business itself is is, in my opinion, the good guys in in the bad race and uh their ethical, you know, the the founders, the ethics and responsibility is really on their shoulders.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that they're taking it very seriously.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I really do.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's aligned with our businesses and and the industry that we work in.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a win-win, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so privileged to to be partnered with them and and be an ambassador for them.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's voluntary.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, if I can make that really clear, it's a voluntary role.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not paid for it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they will sponsor our events and we'll host official anthropic and clawed events, but I'm personally not paid by them.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love their product and I know so do you.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I and I'm really aligned with their ethics.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a win-win uh situation.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: What one of the things I find so inspiring about you is the association of elite performance, the best of the best businesses with environment and sustainability.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Other people view those as completely separate things where you're like, no, no, let's be it the best of the best, be it F1, be it literally the highest performance sport on the planet, measurable, and the fastest growing business that's ever existed on the planet, and you're putting sustainability and environment alongside, you should be so proud.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it is so inspirational, Katie.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, thank you.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's day-to-day, so it's nice to hear you say that in that way, but I yeah, it's just day to day.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's all normal.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's all normal.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, take us through your journey with AI.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, how long ago, if I'd have spoken to you, would you have started to engage with live language models and using AI day-to-day?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say probably 18 months.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I uh I had an idea, and the idea was uh there's green skill, there's green skills gaps everywhere across every industry.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when we're engaging with new clients, they don't have a way of like um quantifying it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And going back to Formula One days, everything is measured, everything has a business case, everything has a reason.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And right now, I'm trying to sell something that doesn't exist.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's arbitrary.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard for people not to know what they don't know.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So what so like what am I selling?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's invisible.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so how can I make green skills more visible?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And LinkedIn are doing an incredible job.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: They just published their um report yesterday.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was the reason why the business started, you know.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's a green skills gap and there's massive opportunities.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what is green skills and how do you define them?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which no one has done.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we do that?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do I start to productize something that is quite arbitrary right now?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the kind of journey started of like, okay, well, I need a platform, I need to be able to show a dashboard, I need to visualize all this data, I need to turn something arbitrary into data points.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so um, shout out to Zara who taught me vibe coding last year.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was super nervous, like evenings, vibe coding on Lovable, and it was like, okay, make me a platform that can show skills gaps, something like that.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or what does exist already in the L and D and HR world?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: How are you measuring success on training?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: We've banned the word training.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: We we're upskilling to make sure that people are are, you know, having new skills, not tick box clicking through making a cup of tea.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you feel that was necessary in terms of switching the language?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because ESG training is is is dull and boring and uh no one wants to do it and it's arbitrary.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make any sense to people.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you're talking about a certain million tons of CO2 emissions and you're sat in an office in the city, like I I was at a carbon policy event on Tuesday morning, and the first 20 or so minutes we were debating about the nuance of uh very specific technical rules and regulations and the projection that as if people on the street cared.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to go, can I just be clear?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: No one gives a damn.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: No one cares.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, what you're talking about like you enjoy this, that's fantastic.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like um it's like people having like model railway clubs or being really into car engines.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you like that, that's fine.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: But please don't think the rest of the world cares.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: They don't, they just want a better planet and they want happiness and excitement and positivity.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would challenge you a little bit on it, Rich, because people do care.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: They care about the planet and they care about people.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Human beings care, but they're not really right now aware of what impact it's having on them personally.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't care what regulation your carbon credit is governed by, but they would quite like an extra tree in the ground or a trillion or two trillion.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like you, you know, people connect people have different connections with nature, as you as you well know.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can just bring things back to the human, then you've got a conversation.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's back to like head and heart and how do you approach it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: But uh ESG training people off, no one wants to do that.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you're so right.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was at an event serious ago.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was at Innovation Zero, and someone was talking about the board meeting about sustainability and ESG and how boring that was, and how nobody like really understood every single little detail.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's also what we need to work on.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need to make the whole process boring.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: We need to make it exciting, we need to be and make it connected to what people actually care about.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then rather than arguing on small little details on how to get things done, we just need to get those things done.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And some of our sessions, like we will um get everyone to close their eyes and think about their favorite place on the planet.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And guess where those places are?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nature.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nature.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're not at your desk, they're not in the office, they're in nature, probably with friends and family.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, nature is important to everyone, we've got a level playing field, we can continue the conversation.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't discussed carbon, you haven't discussed millions of tons of something, you've now got everyone at the same level, um, which is you know, upskilling.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're finally understanding how this does connect with what something that's important to me.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, do you think your uh arrival at working and vibe coding with AI itself, has that given you a gateway to allow people into green skills more?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Has it helped that process?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um the challenge that we had is everyone knew that it was important, but no one really knew where to start.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what we've been able to do now, um we did have a vibe-coded platform, and now we've got a fully amazing working um platform called Skills Signal.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this is giving uh signals of what skills you need.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Your signals are a net zero ambition.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be a complete target.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It can be an SBTI approved target, it can be that your B Corp company, it could be that you're you know donating 1% to the planet, whatever it is, there's a signal there.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a signal from investors?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a signal from your your market, your customers?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you're selling into the NHS, that's a big signal.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to be um aligning with procurement policies.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So what are the signals?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've got the signals, you can start to reverse engineer what skills you need within the business.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if it is procurement policies, you then have a higher weighting to the procurement team rather than a marketing team.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And very naturally, sometimes we've gone straight to marketing and communications because this has been a storytelling exercise in communication.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, what you the signal is you need to do X.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, this team is the team that needs upskilling first, and then what do they need?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been able to, using AI and our X our human expertise, is uh define that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we have over 15,000 data points now across 12 industries, 12 departments, five maturity levels, and we are able to really pinpoint what the skills gaps are across green skills, now AI skills, and a mindset shift as well that's required.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: And how then do you do it afterwards?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: What what is the process?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you've walked them through backwards, said this team needs that, this team needs that, what happens afterwards?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get to get to the exciting part and we upskill them.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be a two-hour fluency lab, it could be a six-week masterclass.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, we have banned the word training.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've also banned the word sustainability as well.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so um, we've just wrapped up a an academy um with our amazing client, uh global client, and it's a circular as a competitive advantage academy.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: The conversation we had with Om.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um Elena's friend's head of circularity uh on in Switzerland, we had dinner with her, exactly the same conversation.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's an opportunity for them, and it's a whole new product line in terms of how they're producing like elite, elite-level shoes.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's fascinating.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um lots of people uh are are worried about the impact of AI on the job market.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: How do you both feel about it?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: The honest answer would be I don't know.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I saw wonderful news from Mikey on how they actually I think 18,000 jobs they could cut things to AI, but they redirected those people, they haven't fired anyone, and they actually created a new department with new value and new revenue streams by helping the people do more expert jobs and like taking away more menial tasks with AI.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's an amazing story.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love what we are doing with AI at OC and it's amazing to see the innovation, how that helps speed up the business.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the honest answer is I don't know.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important that we stay on top.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: But are we able to predict where this is all going?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe directionally, yes.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's still an open page to discover.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, um listen, it's pretty unknown, and um there's a lot of hype because people are inflating the um profitability and the value of their business.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's hype.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what I'm seeing on the ground, and um we've just we've just wrapped up our um AI accelerator, um, we're we're uh doing the next one in a few weeks for for human beings that are worried about being behind.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're actually seeing is the humans are amazing at using this technology, um, but enterprises and companies are not.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what's happening is um big or large organizations with Microsoft licenses have got copilot, and it's so limited.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's limited.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So people are feeling more anxious because they're not max then they're like still writing their emails with co-pilot, and like that's it, by the way.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, you know, in the founder space and solopreneurs and smaller businesses, like we're in a diff we're in a different stratosphere to a lot of large organizations.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's easy to think we're in the normality, and it's not because it's a very small minority.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh Mr.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: AI Optimist sat in the corner over here.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it's gonna create loads of new jobs.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um I uh I'm just pro-technology in every which way.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I always think about Penny's world, and um when we we did this big event on AI and Rome last week, Penny spoke from the back of the room beautifully about her processes changed from four hours to edit a podcast extra 20 minutes and the ability to do and the quality of content and the stuff we're putting out above and beyond that is just astonishing as a result of that.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, the television industry is smaller than it's ever been, but there's more different media channels and routes and streaming services, and more people working in the sector than there were before, but just in different ways.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I'm I'm really excited about the new jobs and the ones we haven't even thought about yet.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about the skills that will be the most important moving forward, what are the sort of things you you tell people?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm I'm thinking young There's been a lot of young one thing I've quite liked about events this week, we've been turning up to things and people have been showcasing young people from local universities.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: We were at uh an event with Guide House last night, and they had a load of students from Imperial College showing their work as well, which was just a I'd not seen that done before in a claim, which so that was a brilliant idea of trying to do that.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um what advice would you give young people about the skills that they might want for a green future?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I uh skills that young people might want for a future.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um frankly, it's not STEM skills.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because they always gonna do that for us.
• 43:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there's still gonna be a need for engineers, of course there is.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's gonna be a very, very different uh job profile than than what we what we see now.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's the creativity, it's the uh empathy and actually emotional intelligence.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're seeing with um everyone that we're upskilling right now is like it's really exciting when you build something, when you see that result, that artifact that you've been thinking about in your head, you know, you get your dopamine hit.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is addictive, it's it's great, right?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's this is better than scrolling and getting dopamine, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is you're building, you're creating, you're not consuming stuff.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's totally different.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: However, the challenge comes that we're using it, it's great, like we're solving problems.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are just prompting right now.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: So to be able to articulate a problem really, really, really well is going to be a very powerful skill.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, software developers and um software engineers in the past have been the best ones, have been someone that's been able to understand a problem and then define the systems that need to be built to solve that problem.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: You could be amazing at coding, you could build the most like amazing thing, but if it doesn't solve the problem, the pain point, then you're not going to be successful.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so many times, you know, in school and and traditional education is find the solution.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one plus one equals two.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, understand it, you know, get to the solution as quickly as possible and show your workings out.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, no, no, no.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need the solution right now.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be able to be human, we need to be listening, and we need to define problems and pain points.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in our board meeting yesterday, our brilliant chairman who um I mean he was chief executive of one of the biggest banks in the world.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: This guy's astonishing, has had a career that stems back from math originally through insurance, through banking, commercial, etc.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: He paused at me and said, Do you know what?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I often think it's important to ask better questions to start with rather than rush to answers.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he's absolutely right, and the same thing is true now.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and Andrew, who we mentioned uh ahead of people, he's always said the thing we're not teaching young people enough is critical and systems thinking, how to look at at situations and problems.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: What would you advocate in terms of um and we're about to have another round of interns coming through OC.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, congratulations, everyone.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are the skills?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, we're about to go out for your first intern, aren't we?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what what are the skills?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're already telling everyone, right?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: So spoiler.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what what skills should they be looking for?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: What are you hoping they bring?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm almost thinking starting to think in generations, and like young people now, and also my kids, and what kind of skills they will need to be equipped with.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's an even bigger question.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's an even bigger question.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the most important skill is flexibility.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Flexibility to learn more, flexibility to do different things on different days.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just flexibility point, because every day is different.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: The pace at which we do things is incredibly fast, which I love about the C, by the way.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also AI changes fast, and tomorrow it might be not the same as today.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you might be able to do completely different things with it.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or today I'm focusing on an event and speaking at an event, and there is one skill set that I need to have.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And even though AI can help me put together a speech, nobody is gonna make that speech mine, and no, nobody's gonna go and deliver that speech on stage.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then tomorrow I might I might do something completely different, you know, meeting with investors and understanding what their needs are and how to bridge those gaps and speak their language.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like this flexibility is so critical in our fast-changing world, and the pace of change is unprecedented.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not flexible, we're just stuck in the past.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Even hearing you two talk about how you'd approach things.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Elena's paddle bat, racket, what's the terminology?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Paddle paddle paddle racket.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Paddle paddle paddle, I think.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is offshot because Elena's going to an event playing paddle with investors later.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you talked about turning up, being in service, but equally, you've gone through periods of partnership building and clearly marketing and branding and events and and how many things you would have turned up to on a far constant because the the circuit on F1 is constant and you won't know what country you're in, yet you've still got to turn up, do the event, be it, be engaging, build that relationship.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's 50 different skill sets.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's Sophie's point about flexibility and turn.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: We often say, well, we'll we do climate weeks hard, right?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: We we absolutely stack out the days, and it'll be like late afternoon, we'll be like, Oh, should we go to this event?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we turn up and you go and you do the next one because you don't know which of those opportunities is gonna open up a doorway.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's the most unexpected ones, the ones where you'd be like, should I arrest?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'll push through a little bit, and then that's the one that turns out to be the most amazing one.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it just works this way.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Before we move off AI completely, I often get asked about am I worried about the environmental footprint of AI?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I first wently say no, because in the big scheme of things, the positive impact will far outweigh the bad.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Am I being naive about that?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh slightly, maybe.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would yes, because this is not good.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really isn't.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's a um a a data point that is um 30% of the large businesses right now adopting AI are using 10 million tokens a month.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is right now.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Data centers are a factory of tokens.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's as simple as that.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Token usage is the lowest it's ever going to be today.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: It listen, Rich, it could be, and it is, in my opinion, the optimist in me is this is the best use case for renewable energy.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: It literally is.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've been so used to be doing double materiality assessments on businesses and climate risk, all of the risks are are going to be showing up.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what if the risk is your entire business and systems is running on AI and and we we can't and a data center overheats because that particular state has run out of water?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then what?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then what happens?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is only going in one direction.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Energy is going to be consumed, water, fresh water is going to be consumed.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be a lot of conflict around this.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not slowing down.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: My fear is, uh, and from being in the US, that this technology is not being used for the right things.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about crypto mining, I'm talking about mass marketing.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Penny, I know you're doing amazing content, but there are people doing really evil things like mass manipulation, social media, like fake, you know, fake news is actually real now because we're unsure, you know, like you remember maybe last year when your parents would show you something and you're like, monkeys don't do that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's AI.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And now maybe we wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm worried about the technology being used in the wrong ways.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm worried about young people being manipulated by it.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm worried about this consumerism becoming even worse than it is now because we're buying more stuff that we don't need.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're buying things from all over the world on social media through TikTok shop.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is another marketplace.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: We just had Amazon, now we have TikTok shop, and it's stuff that we don't need, and the people that are selling it to us aren't even real.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think about it?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: Are you worried about the impact both environmentally and socially?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's literally the session I'm moderating tomorrow.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, AI is opportunity or risk for nature and climate.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is your answer just yes and walk off?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was adopting your approach of optimism.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I like to second your way in a sense that we have a powerful technology and we need to use it in the right way.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in 1900s, the car scaled and we could get to places faster, but we became more reliant on gasoline.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: In 1950, nuclear energy was there, and it's carbon-free and amazing as long as you manage it in a safe way.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now AI is accelerating everything like that, and we need to be able to use it in the right way.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've dug with Claude into some statistics on AI today.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now global carbon emissions of AI are 0.5% of total emissions, they're projected to become anywhere from 1% to I think 4% by 2030.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's indeed a very rapid growth.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have to be careful with it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: However, I'm hoping that imagine lots of businesses are running on AI and everything stops because a data center runs out of water.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now everyone is talking we need to invest in infrastructure, but the next level is going to be we need to invest in nature because you can't run your business on AI through a data center that has no water.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a stable regenerated environment to do that.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think all investors see that yet because they're still at the level of physical infrastructure, but not nature's infrastructure.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's going to come up so much faster now, especially when local communities are getting involved and and businesses realize how how dangerous it is to run on a cloud somewhere.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the cloud's not in the sky.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: I love that perspective.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that perspective so much.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I a conversation I've been having a lot this week is uh okay, right, how do I measure it?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's happening, I'm behind, there's a lot of anxiety around it.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we we're not measuring it right now.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, to go full circle back to um my days in F1 is the biggest um uh emissions was around travel.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of businesses have, you know, finally cracked business travel.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are reducing, people are using trains, employees are aware of their carbon footprint, it's measured.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everyone, everyone knows, right?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm traveling for work, I should be getting the train.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know it might take me longer, but this is my policy.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing is going to happen for tokens.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, they're not being measured, they're not being managed, we'll a hundred percent get there.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think right now there's a lot of hype.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think enterprises are not adopting it as quickly as uh they might say they are.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, some teams probably are not the sustainability teams for sure.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Eleanor, I love your your perspective of it doesn't exist without water.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're seeing we're seeing data centers under the sea.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna be staying cool.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, there'll be some restoration and some conservation projects around that.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is the most inefficient it's ever gonna be, as well.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right now.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's only increasing usage and energy usage, but right now, this is the most inefficient it's ever gonna be, and that's exciting.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, with the scaling energy demand, about half of the scaling energy of demand is going to be covered by renewables at this point in time.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and half will still be covered on fossil fuels if we remain on the same level.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: But indeed, um, Nvidia is on the panel tomorrow.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: They managed to make things so much more efficient.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: There is this rebound effect, you make things more efficient, but there is so much usage, so there is a paradox.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's really exciting to see how quickly the innovation scales in efficiency and sustainability as well.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also exciting to see that a lot of tech companies and hyperscalers are the ones who are, you know, leading on the renewable energy agreements, um, but they're also leading on carbon removal on nature-based solutions because they're starting to realize how important it is.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if they want to be pioneers in technology, they also want to be pioneers in protecting the natural living systems.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you were um living out in the US while the SpaceX IPO went on recently, and a big chunk of that was uh thinking about the future and the the skills, the equipment, the infrastructure we need, and even data centers in space.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Does the idea of that fill you with hope or dread or neither or both?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've never been fascinated with space.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never taking an interest in space.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it hasn't astronomy and still hasn't done it for me.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like cool, it's great, like I get why people enjoy it, it's fascinating.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: It it really scares me.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't want to think that far.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna be a good one.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, away.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite comfortable on the ground, you know.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I Rich to be honest, um I've I'm just focusing on this.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I hate the why are we doing all this in space when we should save the planet?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I really don't pay much attention to anything that isn't um on the ground.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that excited me about it and why I think it's it's relevant is it it's that extra order of magnitude in terms of ambition and audacity.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we'll see similar IPOs from Anthropic and from OpenAI.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh my aim is that by 2032 we get OC in the position where we can have a similar type of audacious um IPO in the UK.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm not suggesting we're gonna rewild the moon, um, although that's quite a fun idea.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not suggesting Is there much on the moon?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's much to rewild, is there?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, exactly.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you need more conservation up there, right?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think we're gonna rewild the moon, but maybe come back a little bit, yeah, a little bit closer.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I do think we can we need a way whereby retail investors, in the same way that SpaceX was oversubscribed for retail investors wanting in, right now there isn't a retail route for people to invest in nature and conservation, and an IPO from OC in 2032 would offer us that opportunity.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we need anthropic and open eye to nail theirs first and and then we'll get there.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what that puts in my perspective?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these IPOs are record-breaking.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have you know so much money, and then in comparison to that amount of money, the the money that we need to put into nature and climate just seems small, but at the same time it also seems so achievable.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that perspective over the fact that we are not short on capital, we just have to speak inverso's language and make it exciting for them and make it as a regenerative business, and then it will grow, and then the impact will scale.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just makes you think that everything is possible.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna quote you from earlier about being free to dare.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um if we dare a little more and we sat here in 12 months' time, what do you hope has changed in the wider world and sustainability sector?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: I hope politically there'll be uh changes.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've gone too far.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder how many new prime ministers we'll have in the UK by that point.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: Probably like three or four.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, politically, um, there's gonna be changes, hopefully.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I hope this optimism remains actually.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've really enjoyed this week.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've really enjoyed hearing about the success, and I've really enjoyed people having confidence in their conviction.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: I yes.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just yes to everything you just said.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it sounds like you've enjoyed it even more than you expected.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: You've found more positivity than you expected.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been hard to come back to the UK sometimes because it's a bit dreary, frankly.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, coming from Miami back to London in the winter, of course, it's it's very there's a big paradox between the two places.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just it generally, like the UK sometimes isn't the most positive place to be.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: We like to complain.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not aware of the privilege that we have in the UK, uh, frankly, a lot of people.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh yeah, I have really enjoyed it this week and the sun's been shining.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is my kind of temperature.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy in this climate.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: Elena, what do you hope or dare is gonna change in the next 12 months?
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm going to quote you on that.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh momentum.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when we were in Rome, I was sitting in a room and I realized that the world moved in trends.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: So something comes into fashion and comes out of fashion, comes into fashion, comes out of fashion.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: That could be sovereignty, that could be resilience, that could be sustainability, that could be nature and climate.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: We go through those phases where everyone jumps on it and then it's less popular and then again popular.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to ride the wave of what is popular and how to make in order to make those things done.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the momentum is picking up again.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's once again a different momentum, a very action-oriented momentum.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: So in a year, I really want to have a huge leap of nature and climate action so that we're not just sitting here and thinking, oh my god, it's cold red in London and it's so hot, and it's kind of circumstantial for having a London climate week on that on that week, but that we actually see much more action and much hope.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of thinking, oh my god, how hot will the next summer be?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want to think how much less hot it's going to be than expected before.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're totally right about the momentum, everything compound.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question for you both, if I may.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm just like thinking about uh I don't know if if you know Jeremy Clarkson.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: Familiar.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds familiar, but okay.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: So he's a very famous journalist here in the UK.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's on Top Gear.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know Top Gear?
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like for petrol heads, fast cars driving around like the world.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: You've heard of Clarkson's farm as well, right?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's him.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's him.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um I the irony of he's made his career out of top gear, right?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now accidentally, maybe he's one of the biggest voices in the UK for climate change and regenerative agriculture and circularity.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think he knows that, but we know that.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: So my question is for you both did we all go a little bit too far into the wrong direction that we're coming back a few steps, which is reconnecting us to nature, which is using AI to do formatting of PowerPoints and whatever it is that we don't want we shouldn't be doing as human beings.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Have we gone too far?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are we starting to see the regression happen and just take us back to where we're meant to be as human beings?
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's all and nothing at the same time.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we're we're always bouncing between um needing more connection with nature, needing more connection with technology.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: And in terms of like Clarkson being both the biggest uh advocate against climate change, and also through Clarkson's Farm showing the realities of rural life.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think you need it all, and you just need and we started talking a lot before we started rolling about having the broadest spectrum of opinions and voices and spending more time in rooms that you disagree with and you can learn from.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's probably it.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: If you the environment sector certainly went too far in terms of yelling at everyone, trying to shame them into doing everything, to the point whereby no one would try and do something slightly better because to be criticized for it not being perfect.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: No one would say, I'm making this choice, I'm eating less meat because I want to have a smaller football.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you eat some meat, so you're terrible.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: We would criticize people for trying as opposed to being perfect.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we went far, far too far that way.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that feels different this week as well.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like people are getting a congratulations for the bit they are doing as opposed to criticize for the bit they aren't.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting a lot of people approaching us saying, I'm currently a lawyer, an accountant, a doctor.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: I want to change career and get into space.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: We largely don't recruit estate managers who have ever been estate managers.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: We've got former wedding planners and models and rock stars and commercial pilots and adventure athletes.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to be on your team.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is so cool.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: And these are people who've come and been as um academics and lecturers that have moved across.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we've got people who have had all these different careers, like, no, no, I want to be in this space because they are choosing lifestyle and impact and purpose over what they thought would be the answer.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, uh, I had uh lunch with one of the leading lawyers in the tech space, and he said he always viewed he'll love hearing this, and he, because he's a fan of the podcast, he said he always thought he would work as long as he could and earn as much as he could and then buy a farm to create a nature reserve.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: And now he's going, couldn't I just do that now and do something to help with that process?
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or dreaming of living on a farm.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: David Beckham lives on a farm.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's had like his videos about chickens and radishes that you harvest.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is the best example.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: This man is like on in in the US, every commercial in these stupid hydration breaks is David Beckham.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's choosing to live on a farm in the countryside in the UK.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, a global climate director of Salesforce and a friend of ours, Tim Christopherson, he lives out of regenerative farm in Denmark and leads his global team.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we are reconnecting to what you said more with nature, maybe also because nature is becoming really scarce and we're realizing we need it more.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we came kind of like in the tipping point of where we didn't notice and we started noticing it at the same time.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also I think the world has accelerated so fast, and we've accelerated with it that we've arrived at the point where we're like, Whoa, wait, I cannot keep up anymore if I just you know go and do things.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: I need to take a step back, I need to see what I actually want and how I want to move my life because now there's also so many more possibilities.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you look backwards, it was a lot harder to change careers, do something impactful.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can learn, you can upskill, you can get things done.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with that acceleration, we've all took a step back, realized things are possible.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can do this, let's do it now.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is the first.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: In summing up this episode, so uh you are both superstars.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an absolute privilege to sit here and chat with you.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think this might be my first time mentioning this on the podcast, but so my third book is coming out in December, Natural Intelligence.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: Subtitle of that literally feeds off exactly what you said.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: The more digital the world becomes, the more reliant it is on nature.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why we've ended up.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's been absolutely privileged.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um,