Latest / Off the Bench - London / The Journey of a Boxer: Heather's Story
Transcript
- Off The Bench London (00:00) What up? cheers! I got it again! You might have to change the camera just a little bit. Oh yeah? No, no, we should be good. We should be good. Doesn't it like cut off the edges? I think, I think they touch the edges, but I think we'll fix it. Yeah, it'll fix it. I think. Or just lean a little bit more. Yeah. I'm totally going to knock this mic off them. Keep the mic on. All right, another You can't tell me to not touch something and then I'm to... It's true. You have a bad habit of touching things when you're not supposed to touch things. Yeah. I don't know if that's a good or not. Maybe you should keep your hands to yourself. It's right there. just want to touch it. You're too fidgety. Alright, another episode. Here we go. Last episode we had, Bronson Fridal on it. It was a very good episode where we had the opportunity to chat about, you know, just like how growing up in sports leads up to the development and how your business as an entrepreneur kind of reflects in how you gain some transferable skills you could say from sports into the business and entrepreneurship. ⁓ That was a really good episode. I thought so. I ended up having meeting with him last week after just to get some last minute RSPs in. That's what it comes down to, right? For the deadline. kind of close but yeah I because I figure you know we got to put our money where our mouth is might as well and if we're having having somebody on we got a true got to own up to it now on the theme of having guests I think we should continue this theme yeah we got some we've had some great guests I think we're gonna have another one and I think every time we have a guest on we also get better yeah like You know, they say communication is one of the biggest keys in life. And the more and more we view an episode, the better our communication gets. But it doesn't really matter, but our communication is how we communicate with everyone else, whether it's the audience out there or with a guest or just in regular general life. So I feel like at this point, everyone should just know if they see a big chair in the middle. Boom, we got some people coming. Yeah. Unless you put a sign there. Oh, that's true. You know, we've done that before. Yeah, we have done that. So, you know, let's cut to the chase. I'm Malcolm the Milkman Scott. Visionary Hohn And we would like to introduce our guest today. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? get the tall seat. All right. I like it. Get to see you for us. So who are you? Who am I? I'm Heather. ⁓ I am a boxer. I am a referee and also a coach. Nice. And I'm happy to be here tonight. Thank you for asking me to come on over. I appreciate you taking the time to join us today. Just you know, boxer, ref. and coach? Yes. ⁓ trifecta. I love it. Okay. Okay. Seeing this, we're learning. Like as I know nothing. So tell so how did you get into boxing? How long have you been boxing? I have been boxing. It's been over 20 years now. I started back with boomers boxing. ⁓ and another club before that, ⁓ originally before Boomers opened. But I've been a boxer for a bunch of years. I've had ⁓ over 30 amateur fights. I'm also getting a little bit older to be doing this sport. Not to say that older people can't do the sport, but ⁓ I've had a lot of experience and a lot of fights, so sometimes it's not easy to match up. I wanted to continue on with the sport, is why I got into coaching and now officiating. Damn! So what's your favourite part about boxing? And let me rephrase that. What's your favourite part about boxing when you're boxing? Like when you're in a competition or is it the training? For me, it's the training. ⁓ I mean, I love the fight game as well, but I really enjoy the training. ⁓ I the people that I meet along the way. My partners in the gym, ⁓ male and female, but for me, I've built a pretty strong community with ⁓ boxing's got, it's pretty big in London for women. It's huge now. Yes. And we're getting big, so. I would say I have to do a huge shout out to Brett. I think if it wasn't for Brett kinda doing the fight tag homelessness, the amateur world wouldn't be as big of a today, he alone put so much awareness into boxing that not only boomers is growing, I can say other competitors, I may not actually say them right now. ⁓ I can say one actually, MPT. MPT is another great one. But then even the ones outside of the city, like Champion City, they've grown from what Wreck has done in my personal opinion. I wouldn't have gone into boxing if it wasn't for Wreck. Which is all the that like awareness, the publicity, like I obviously I never would have gotten into this if it wasn't for for you getting into it. it's the same same thing. I feel like because everybody that gets into it, like you can't not talk about it with everyone, you know, it's like, it's so like, I don't understand how Fight Club is like, don't talk about Fight Club. First rule of boxing is just tell everybody. Yeah, it's kind of like CrossFit. ⁓ so much better. Yeah, so much better. So you were training under Lawrence Bill. Yes. How was that experience? Obviously, I never had the opportunity to meet him, ⁓ but his legacy definitely continues on in the gym. Yes. But like you firstly, firsthand got to experience the man, the myth, the legend. Yes. Can you explain like the walkthrough of like your career with Lawrence as your coach? ⁓ Yeah, Lawrence, wow. He's very well known, a legacy he's still continuing on with Boomer's reopening. Shout out to Matt. Shout out to Matt, yes, and Mark and Abdul. And those are some of the guys that I used to train with back in Boomer's day when the gym used to be on Richmond Street. yeah. Where in Richmond was it? Uh, well, it's where the youth opportunities are needed. Well, okay. it does come in full circle. It totally comes in full circle. For sure. sure. Sorry. No, Lawrence, Lawrence was a really good friend of mine. When he started Boomers, I kind of followed him. I wanted to stay with him over the years. Yeah, like, I don't know. He was wonderful. I knew a little bit of a different side of Lawrence. He was a very, very, very close friend of mine. ⁓ And I know he would be shining and smiling down today, being proud of, guess he's still continuing and giving back to the community, which was really big back then as well as it is now. Still is right now, yeah. Hell. Yeah. Good. Alright, so you said you've been in what, 30 plus fights? Yes. So this is one of those things is that obviously I'm brand new to boxing. I know nothing. How do like divisions and everything work? It's like, know there's, what is it? Amateur, open and then pro or? There's amateur and pro. Amateur and pro? Amateur Open is part of amateur. There's open class fighters and amateur. There's elite fighters. There's masters fighters, which is what I am because I'm. now over 40 so I'm a senior citizen of boxing. But there's a master's division, there's a youth division, and then of course there's all the different weight divisions and stuff that goes along with that. So because I know I've heard people talking about like once you have so many fights you can go into the other division? Yes. Once you hit 11 fights you are then classified as an open fighter. Okay. So you're a novice from zero to 10 fights and then on fight 11 you become an open fighter. So you would be fighting other open fighters along with the same weight category. That makes more sense because like I feel like with every like most other sports like if you end up playing against someone that is like a team that's way better than you. Yep. Sure you lose but like in boxing losing has a lot more Losing is learning. Losing is learning. Losing in boxing is a lot more dangerous than ⁓ it is losing in ball hockey or soccer. I think it's interesting how they classify everyone. I know even just at our gym, we signed up to do an event and They're all these like trying to figure out match it all the different matchups. And obviously I don't know anything, but Malcolm has been in a few fights before. Yep. Not as none of them have like made it the whole distance. Yes. You don't need to boast about me. I've seen your fight. They're having a hard time matching you up with people. Yeah. Cause you have to find someone that's had the same rough amount of fights that can actually match up well. Yeah. And you're not, they're just going to be like a tomato can that you just pummel for 45 seconds. Hey, I didn't ask for this. ⁓ He's paying me. ⁓ Yeah. So, okay. So now you have 30 fights under your belt. Training with Moorish Boom, had that experience. Been each other hiatus, right? Off of boxing? Yes. For kids. I have two kids at home, I stopped boxing for eight years actually. Okay. And then I got back into it again. Okay. So did you get back into it when Fight 10 started? Or what made you come back? Well, I actually, I had been wanting to come back, but I will say fight to end definitely ⁓ was key for me coming back as well. It was the, I wasn't around for the first fight to end, but I started getting involved in the second one going forward. I just helped with helping with the coaching, inspiring with some of the girls. ⁓ yeah, like it's, I got back into that and. One of the corners that I was coaching on that fight to end evening, ⁓ and I hadn't had a fight in eight years, but being behind the curtain and waiting for him to go out and experience that moment, after that I was like, I gotta do this again. So ⁓ I did continue. I have had a couple fights in the last couple years, but mostly switching over to coaching and now officiating. Okay. What's your fight song? Do you have like a steady fight song or do you change it? I change it. You change it. I change it. I change with the mood. I change with the mood. So like, say if you're fighting this year, I don't know. So we'll, okay, I won't do that. Cause I don't know if you want to leave that as a surprise. What was your last fight song and what was the reason for that fight song? I actually didn't get to pick my last fight song. Oh, what? No, I didn't get to pick my last fight song. Um. Oh, I wouldn't have gone out. I'd be like, no, I'm my music. And honestly, I was so in the zone too. don't, at that time, I don't even remember what the song was at that time. I was ready to go and get in there. damn. Yeah. OK. Well, the last time you were able to choose your fight song, what was it? The last time, like ⁓ Demetri Vegas and Mike. Yeah. OK. So high energy. High energy, high energy. I need to get pumped up and get ready to go in when I'm in there. So obviously Scott hasn't had the opportunity to have a fight song or... I But could you like explain... I'm still available for fight The fight song experience, like choosing it and then walking out to it? Yeah, choosing it in... Well, there's always a song that we listen to when you're... that gets you kind of pumped up. And when I do listen to my fight songs, it's one of the things that I actually incorporate in my workout routine is that I listen to that fight song on my way to the gym to go and churn. It helps like, okay, there's the song, I'm getting in the mood, it's time to go. Yeah. No, I can see that. Yeah. Should probably pick a song that I... Yeah. You might want to do that. Yeah. Like for me, like I'm like you, it changes with my mood. Yep. ⁓ For the first fight... I had to go with the Meek Mills ⁓ Nightmares and Dreams because I was scared. But this was a great opportunity. I kind of dreamt of going into the ring and experiencing it. And I kind of felt like the Philadelphia Eagles going into the boxing ring. But obviously, with the intention of winning, which the Eagles won their first one, so that was their theme song going into that Super Bowl. And then last one I picked Will Smith's redemption song because after his slap we need to redeem himself and the second fight I was hoping to redeem myself on being able to finish a fight. Yeah, but I don't make those decisions and I just show up and do what I need to do. Yep. That's so like So you're like, yeah, I really wanted to get a whole fight, but I just I just did like that come on I ⁓ Yeah, and it shows. Yeah, so I was because like during training you understand when you like ⁓ Get to fight for your first one ⁓ When they show you your opponent is and you see like certain techniques that you start getting scared of It kind of lives with you until like you get into the ring. Yeah, like doing scouting tapes on fighters You learn certain techniques and what's been successful for them You don't want to put yourself in that situation to make them successful Those your nightmares. See, I feel like it's different when you're fighting someone that has no fights. It's like I have no fights. I disagree because you see them sparring. Well, that's true. Yeah. I guess because we're still at the same doom. like, it's going to come out throughout the camp, think. So I'm excited for it. Now, we're talking from the charity aspect. But for you, when you were fighting, do you always see tape? on your opponent or you just told? ⁓ There is opportunity for me to see tape. ⁓ Everybody, every fighter has a different fight game. know for me, sometimes I, well actually I can share about my last ⁓ fight that I was out at West Coast Wonder Woman. It was a big tournament out there and I didn't know who I was fighting until I got there. found out the day off that I was fighting. ⁓ But I was like getting amped up and excited and I was like, nah, I'm not gonna bother looking. And ⁓ some people like to go and study and look. ⁓ Me, I kind of like to just get in there and figure it out as I go along. But sometimes I can't always be the greatest. ⁓ I did find out too at the end who I actually did fight and it was the national champion of Calgary who had 72 fights. so I think for me ⁓ it was an honor to share the ring with her. But I know now that after the fact if I would have looked her up I would have been a little bit more scared I think. And she was very much more experienced than I was. So, yeah, everybody's different. Yep. It's It's true. I know for me, it's like, I don't want to spar my opponent. Yeah. And I know with the charity event, you can't necessarily control that. for me, had both the opportunities that I had to box. I didn't have to spar my opponent. And I think that was great. It also kind of in me in some aspects, because I saw what they did to other people. And it was just like, OK, I couldn't do that to them. So now I'm like getting worried, but yeah. Couldn't you? ⁓ I was still learning. I was still trying to lose. every sparring session I try to lose, right? To figure out what my game techniques, how my body's going to react. ⁓ And like, I have a huge problem with trying to fight like a small person. ⁓ And I'm a tall guy. Most of my points are usually smaller. So I want to get in for the action. understanding distance is one of my biggest issues. It still is. ⁓ But it's one of things I'm always working on. Yeah, find it interesting getting right into sparring because it's weird because you're up against them and it's all just trying to gauge how much effort everyone's putting in at that exact time. It's interesting because you're like... Do I go in and like be in a position where they can throw or do you like, you know what I mean? I know exactly. Yeah. It's hard. Like, I don't know. I feel like it's hard to explain. Yeah. Just experience, go in and move around and just kind of that's to what the coach is in the corner for to help you out. Yeah. In between rounds, give them some tips and stuff. So on that note, as a coach, what advice would you have? Have fun. ⁓ Biggest thing is ⁓ have fun in there. ⁓ I can share from like ⁓ the coach and boxer side, being nervous for a fight is very normal. ⁓ If you're not nervous, then you know, you're not nervous, you don't care. Yeah. Yeah. Along that. But ⁓ yeah, it's just go in and have fun. And I promise you, once the bell goes off, you'll zone everything. Everything will be zoned out. You won't hear the crowd. You'll just be in there with your opponent moving around. Your coach will be yelling at you. That's good. I probably deserved to be yelled at. Every time I'm boxing, I'm like, please yell at me. Yeah. It's like when you're doing the drills and they're like, people are just kind of like throwing punches, but like going over you. no, if I don't move, actually hit me. Yep. Yep. like please, that I deserve. It will teach me to move. for sure. One of my questions though that I have for you is obviously boxing is hugely a man's sport but there's a huge resurgence now in women getting into boxing which is absolutely amazing because I think women are more technical and actually are better when it comes to boxing because it's not necessarily about you how it's technique. Yes. Right. And it's I think it's the truest form of boxing right now is women boxing right now. And it's from top level even to amateur. ⁓ being a coach, how are you seeing two questions? How are you seeing women getting into boxing? And then how are you seeing the confidence level of women in boxing after they've done a few sessions? Like, are they getting more confident in themselves? not necessarily from a self-defence aspect, but just in like knowing their body in a sense. Absolutely. ⁓ Like I, for women, like I know for me when I was starting out with the sport, over 20 years ago, women's boxing was around, but it wasn't what it was today. And we're still, still growing today. Boxing Ontario actually has, like, we have female development camps where women all across, like, Ontario meet at a, usually there's a post club that will meet and we'll spend, like, an afternoon doing networking as well as drills and then having opportunities to spar with different females in different clubs from all over. But I don't know, the confidence, definitely that's for me where I find one of the more exciting things with the coaching is it's like you see somebody who comes in and they can be, you know, a little bit not necessarily skeptical, but a little bit skeptical, nervous, you know, and then they just, just keep showing up. Just, you got to, if you just keep showing up and over like little good months of time, it's like, you know, you see the confidence starting to rise. And one of the things that I really, really enjoy, like I like doing partner drills in my class ⁓ because as soon as like the girls partner up and they start throwing hands, they start smiling. Everybody's laughing, they're smiling. So it's a lot of fun. It's good. ⁓ Yeah, I was finding it interesting with those drills because like, obviously again, new, they'll show us a drill and then we'll start, everyone will mess it up the first few times. And then we're like going so slow and then. By the end of it, everybody's doing it nice and smooth. It just feels so much better. It's almost like watching a dance. Yes. The problem is I'm terrible at dancing. Well, we can't fix that. You can't fix that with getting punched in the head. That doesn't work. The resurgence of women now in boxing, it's crazy. Even with Fight to End, the group that I was with, they have taken boxing to another level. What are you coaching them as well? Like Meg, Sarah. And that was the only two that was in my era at that time. How are they doing right now? They're doing great. ⁓ Actually, Sarah has a fight this coming upcoming weekend. ⁓ She has a fight. Meg, she's doing wonderful. She's been doing great. She's getting up there, getting closer to being an open class fighter. So yeah, and they fought each other and yes, said so yeah, no they both continued on and both wonderful Now you coaching them How was that experience as a coach? ⁓ For you just like see them grow Like coming up with new techniques like what are you looking for now as a coach to elevate their game? Are you trying to elevate it to like match your career? both from your experience or are you looking for like an actual game plan from an opponent to like help them get better? It would be like usually I know with these girls that they more so study their opponent a little bit. So I guess becoming more up with a game plan. But I guess like again with the confidence back to the confidence, just getting in there and. getting comfortable and doing lots of sparring and lots of drills and yeah, some work in. So we touched on your boxing career a little bit. What's your actual record though? Out of curiosity. ⁓ I'm about half and half. Okay. Yeah, think it's about half and half. So would you say you've learned more? from the fights you didn't win or from all of your wins? ⁓ I learned just from all of it. From the wins, the losses, the sparring, partner drills. Yeah, it's just, again, back with the gaining confidence. And as I said earlier, we don't lose, we learn. We learn from the experiences. I think what makes everyone like stick it out like you have. It's like you get addicted to the grind. Yes. It's like that's what keeps you going. You're like, no, I, once you, once training becomes fun, you're like, just want to keep going. Yes. Absolutely. It doesn't feel like a chore. Like, no, not at all. It's like a lot of times people go to the gym and they just feel like they have to go to like, like I just being like the regular gym, like they go because I have to. But then when you're doing this, like it's a full body workout and you're going because you want to. And I know, I know myself, I find like just going to the gym could be kind of monotonous, boring. then when you're going in, going boxing, everyone else is there. Cause like I grew up doing like all the team sports. So like you can't be the slacker on the team. And like if you're dogging it, everyone else will just keep bothering you and then you're like, okay, no, I can't, I actually have to do this. Yep. Absolutely. And even like, even though it was like, you may want to sometimes, but like everyone will yell at you and you're like, motivate you to keep going. You keep further and further and further. Yep. For sure. And that's in the end, they say like one of the things with boxing, it's you versus you. Yeah. So, um, I was involved in a lot of team sports as well growing up was a different sport than boxing. But for me, I found that boxing is actually probably one of the most team oriented sports I've ever been a part of. Even though it's you against one other person, the community of the fighters and like when you're going, like your teammates are screaming at, know, to and fro from the stands and then you go and it's a wonderful, wonderful experience. Well, you're kind of only as good as your team. like I said this like Last week on the podcast, you're the average of the people you're surrounded by. You surround yourself by all these amazing boxers and athletes. You're going to soak up some of that and you're going to end up being great too. Well, for sure. So what other sports did you play growing up? I played hockey and I played baseball. What position in hockey? I was a right wing in hockey. Did a lot of hockey too? Not once. I played ringette as well and I was also a back catcher in basketball. Oh damn! Okay. I didn't find boxing until my 20s, my early 20s. Fair. Yeah. Damn! How do you, you say you're a parent? Yes. Do you use any of your coaching or your skills that you learned in boxing and how you coach your kids now? like in how we like you use to like increase their confidence. Are you using skills that you've learned in boxing and how you communicate with them? Like if you're in the corner with your kid or? ⁓ Yeah, I it's yeah like my my kids have done a little bit of boxing. It's not their sport and that's okay. ⁓ But but with taking away from some of the stuff I learned it's just about helping them gain the confidence and surrounding yourself with other people and teammates that are there to help you and stay out of trouble. That's the hard part. Yeah, like, at least if they get in trouble, you got a bunch of people that can help them get out Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, it's a great sport for kids and it's definitely helped me. with my raised my kids. I know you can't like end point. Yeah, but there's so many lessons like there's lessons in learning like you or sorry lessons in losing like you train your heart, you spend hours and put it into training and you may just come up short that day. Right. So you can't you got to take away. It's like, okay, what can I learn from that experience? You know, maybe what can I do better next time? ⁓ Because yeah, you can't can't let the losses take you down. It's very empowering. you. Yeah. So we've talked about you boxing, you coach boxing, but then there's a third chapter. Yes. And that's the reffing part of it. Yes. So why did you get into reffing first? ⁓ I got into reffing originally with a different boxing association many, years ago. ⁓ But after my layoff, when I did come back after having kids, I was a little bit older. I wanted to stay involved in the sport. So ⁓ our club is affiliated with Boxing Ontario. And I thought, hey, why not? Let's try it. And I absolutely love it. ⁓ I did my first ⁓ tournament. Out of 40 officials, I was the only official who had never done a tournament at the Branson Cup. That just went by. Damn, so I was the only official that that was their first tournament. I did I did 87 fights total in the four days which there was over 500 fights for that weekend kidding, but I had more experience on those couple days and I had Since I've become a referee and a judge But I don't know it's I loved it. It was really a developmental tournament for me and like I said a little earlier, like I am getting a little bit older. ⁓ I do. I would always like to think that I have one more fight left in me. ⁓ But if not, like I'm in the ring. I got the best seat in the house. ⁓ I'm I'm moving around with the boxers and yeah, it's I love it. It's it's it's great. Do you like being in the ring or being a judge? ⁓ that's a question. So now, ⁓ again, with that tournament, I will say before that tournament, I was really, really nervous, with refereeing, like being in the ring. ⁓ I was feeling confident, but always learning with judging, but, ⁓ I'm traumatized from a couple of years ago when I, or many years ago when I used to referee in the old association, I was reffing to 12 year old boys and I didn't get out of the way fast enough. And I went flying across the room. or the ring, the crowd went silent. I'm like, here I am, I'm the ref. I'm like, no, I'm okay. Let's go. Let's box. But I was so embarrassed after that. I'm like, every time I'm like, no, I don't want to fall. ⁓ with that tournament, was, I was excited to be at the tournament, but also nervous. ⁓ But towards the end of it, I actually found myself getting a little bit closer to the action because I did have that confidence in the experience. And I had a lot of, ⁓ feedback and stuff from other officials which is great. Damn! Do you find being a ref, now that you've got the ref experience, the boxing or the ⁓ judge experience, does that make you a better coach? Absolutely. You can tell like... ⁓ think so. It's all experience. It's all different angles. Yeah, there's... Yeah, I think so. What's something that you notice immediately when you're a fight, like, wrapping an amateur fight? Like, are there things that you see people do, like, they immediately get in the ring and you're just like, oh, this fight's going this way, and like, you immediately know it, or? Every fight can change. Sometimes we gotta take note a little bit of... Sometimes when people are just starting out in the ring for the first time, they can be a little bit excited and it can get a little bit crazy in there sometimes. But yeah, it's just all about keeping the boxers safe at all times. Yeah, because I can see a lot of it being like, like obviously if both people have zero fights, and you know nothing about either of them, you see them, you just get that first glance and you're like, Like you're the skill level could be wildly different. Like obviously they try and set it up with matchmaking, but you can always get hit with a lucky shot. Yeah, it's true. Right. So yeah, like there's, there's one, one shot knockouts and yeah, But like ready for everything. And as they say, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Since you've been doing it though, have you noticed that, you know, most amateur fights. don't go into like a knockout stage and it's mostly in the open stage where you see like the knockout because people know the techniques more or is it because amateurs are more wild than you're just there? Knockouts? No, I think it's a little bit more of a mixed bag. Yeah, with the amateur, like there is knockouts, but I'd say there's definitely more knockouts in the professional than there is in the amateurs. So how do you like in amateur boxing though, how do you tell when someone is like hurt or they're just exhausted? Usually I like you look at the face or the eyes or if somebody's tired and exhausted their hands might drop down a little bit. If their mouth is wide open then they're probably like they could be breathing through their their mouth differently. Keep your hands up. Keep your mouth shut. Remember to breathe. A lot of people, sometimes with fights, they forget to breathe. I can hold my breath for two Make those noises. Is that what you know? Yes. It's interesting to see like, hear your perspective because like, obviously a lot of the fights don't go all the way. like, being a judge, you know exactly what you're looking for. Do you pay more attention to the power and damage people are trying to do? Or is it more just like the contact? There's actually a bunch, there's a couple different scoring criteria's there are in boxing. ⁓ The first one is quality blows in the scoring area. So they're making sure that ⁓ the shots that are count, you need to keep your punches above the belt. There's no punching in the back of the head. You have to keep your head up. ⁓ like they score on how many quality blows in the scoring area. ⁓ And then if it's a little bit closer, then it goes down like to the next bracket ⁓ domination by tactics. And then the next one is competitiveness. But when it gets like really close, like they... they'll look for more like if it's a really close fight like who was the aggressor more who had better ring control who looked like they had more stamina like who showed more heart and that's if it's like yeah really really close fight. Yeah I because I know obviously I I have my first fight coming up so like I want to get all that insight onto that yeah so I know what to pay attention to is like Obviously, I can see it going all the way. Yeah. And if it goes all the way, you want to make sure you're looking good at the judges. Absolutely. I'm. Well, go ahead. I was going to say one of the one of the other really big things is to make sure that you're connecting with the like the whole fist of your love. Like sometimes people can. ⁓ this is a slapping call. So sometimes people will come in. They may not get the hook. fully and like they'll they'll find a slap with the side of the part of their hand those don't count they're not supposed to count so if you're going in and you're throwing a big flurry but you're just going in and you're slapping and you're flurried and count for anything because those weren't quality flows see that's really good I think for me though once you're in the ring you don't have time to think about like you don't like It's just having it in the back. know that you're actually connecting, that's hard. Because like for me, I black out. Do you black out when you get in the ring? Sometimes. But I do know there has been times, do you know when you hit the baseball, the sweet spot on a baseball? Yes. There's been times where it's like, I felt that. Sweet spot on the punch. Just like hitting that sweet spot on the base. Yeah. So as you're talking about, do you get any points for blocking? ⁓ you don't get points. The other person doesn't get points because you're blocking them. So you get points by them not getting points. Yeah. And them getting probably a little bit more gassed, hopefully. I can see a lot of people punching themselves out. Yeah. Like especially in like the first couple fights. Again, like it's, ⁓ you gain that part with experience. Yeah. learning and it also goes with the free fight like how you prepare yourself mentally yeah you want to try and even though it's an amped up experience you want to try and remain calm and kind of move so because of all of your experience with like boxing, coaching, reffing do you find you handle stress really well? I like to think I didn't go fast pretty well. I feel like you're just constantly in stressful situations. Whether it's like you're worried about yourself or you're worried about the person you're coaching or the people in front of you that you might have to save somebody. I don't know. I notice like my startle response is pretty good. I noticed that with my dog. I'm walking my dog and help try and take off and I'm just like, ⁓ okay, like we're going this way now. I don't. Yeah. I don't know. Interesting. So, lost my trance out there. Now we're talking about dogs. What kind of dog do have? A poodle. His name's Sully. I love it. He looks like he was a little Rottweiler when he was a puppy. He's black and he's got big brown eyebrows. Yes! He's so cute. The eyebrows are the best. Yes, they are. Ah, so cute. So back to boxing now. ⁓ Now that I remember what I was talking about. Have you ever found times where you thought about stopping something, like thought about a stoppage and then let it go a little bit further or and then it ended up being the right call or you end up thinking about it later on? I've seen a lot of like UFC or like pro boxing where they'll let things go a lot longer than you'd think. Yeah, we, I try to stop it when I rightfully supposed to stop it. ⁓ as like the aim is like to keep the boxer safe. So if you see the signs or if somebody gets hooked with a good shot or takes a couple of good shots and doesn't return anything, then it's usually give them an eight count just to like, okay, we'll give them a little break. See if I'll see how we're going with that. What is it? Two eight counts in a row? It's If it's two eight counts and around three in a fight, but it's also different for every use as well. But for you guys, it be two eight counts, three in a fight. Because I know I've heard like our coach Jay talk about don't do certain things because obviously like that it'll don't do things to make you have to stop it. Like leaning down too much. Leaning down. ⁓ One of the things a lot is just keeping your head up. Again, if you're fighting somebody who's shorter than you, like when they want to roll, sometimes they'll roll a little and they'll go underneath the belt line, but you got to make sure that you're keeping your head up. yeah, there's lots of stuff to look out for. I don't know. It's just interesting seeing like the respect is like what What's your biggest indication of like, okay, I need to stop this. ⁓ It's, it's in the, it's every moment's different. Every moment's different. I will say there have been, ⁓ there have been eight counts in the past. Again, I'm like, I guess newer and I'm learning, but there have been a time where I probably should have given an eight count, but I wasn't experienced at that time. I know. Next time I've gotten lots of feedback, it's like, okay, I'll give an eight count if needed. It's crazy that like, I feel like it's just a sport that you're always learning things in. for sure. For sure. Like everything is just always getting tighter. It's always like, you're always learning stuff. And like, you may think, you know, a bunch and then someone else will walk in and be like, have you tried this? Yep. And your everything has to change. Yep. I've listened to a lot of other podcasts talking about that and how they'll learn one discipline and then they'll go... And then I started doing kickboxing and then I had to learn a completely different stance. Yeah, different stances. And then you start doing Muay Thai. Muay Thai. It's crazy the difference. Obviously everyone thinks that what they've learned is the best. Yes. Yep. Until they go into someone else's gym and it's not. No. it's 2026 and the narrative for the past few years and a lot of other sports except for Boston or martial arts is most of the time when a person loses we always blame the ref. Obviously in martial arts it's mostly about safety and not necessarily always about you know an agenda you're not being paid by MGM or you know, Beckway or any of those or Fadual. If you guys want to sponsor us, that's different stuff. We're here. We're here. But how do you feel when the negative connotation when it comes to reps? Because it's going to spill over into boxing, especially in the amateur level. They're going to blame you. I've been told off a couple of times. But again, every every like there's there's ⁓ different positions for where the refs or where the judges and the head doctor and the head official like it's everybody sees a different angle right fight so ⁓ we're always like ⁓ like there's been times where you know we don't all agree but everybody sees the fight differently so sure yeah so it happens yeah what was the worst case that someone that got aggressive with you? I haven't had that. I haven't had that experience, thankfully. Well, hopefully you never have to with that. Cut. But if you can tell me off, it's like, OK, like in one ear of the other, it's... I feel like that's a confidence thing when you're just like, no, I know how to box. So you can yell at me and I'll be like, doesn't matter. Yeah. So. As you're refereeing and coaching, what do you think your next steps? Are you going to continue coaching or are you looking to like find person take under your weight going to like the next level? ⁓ I'm going, I'm wanting to go into my next level for roughing. So there's different levels in roughing, level one to three. And then there's also stars that you can get as well. ⁓ And the higher that you are with the levels in your referee, the more experience that. that you get to do. When I was at the Branson Cup, I had met some referees that had been to all over the world. I done a couple Olympic qualifying games. It was pretty awesome to be able to meet and learn from those guys. Do you have an idol ref? I do. Who is this person? Jennifer Huggins. Tell me about her. She is my new... inspiration. And again, I am one of those people who don't look up people before I go places, but I knew Jennifer Huggins was going to be at this ⁓ tournament. she ended up being one of my ring supervisors. And ⁓ she was incredible. She's she I looked up her resume after the fact. And I'm just like, Whoa, this girl has been all over the world. ⁓ officiating. Yeah. So what about her? is amazing or what drew you to her? confidence. confidence. And ⁓ when I was ⁓ at this tournament, like there were lots of different scenarios and stuff that I hadn't had the opportunity to deal with yet because I hadn't been in that position. So ⁓ it was really awesome and empowering to know where, you know, all the experience that she's had and getting positive feedback. From from these people and I don't say negative feedback, but the constructive. Yeah constructive feedback But yeah, like she's she's wonderful. She's got a bunch of podcasts as well. Yeah Okay, so here's a crazy idea, you know how in all the sports all of the athletes do like a post fight interview. Yep. Do think the ref should get to do that? ⁓ Yeah, that could be interesting. That could be interesting. Because it's, the other thing too that I found with this tournament is that it's like the officials and the referees are their own kind of little set of teams. just like you're giving fist bumps and knuckles to the boxer before they go in the ring, the referee is like, all right, you're going in next, know, good luck in. Yeah, so it's like you see it on like all the different sports for People just give the refs a hard time. like, I think if the refs got to do a press draft or as well, they can kind of like, they're like, no, this is why, this is why. Like you explain your thought process. And then I feel like it would eliminate a lot of hate or like deflate a lot of people's sales from like just blaming everything on the ref. It could be. Yeah. But I don't just a crazy idea. Yeah, no, that's cool. Maybe. Maybe your next fight you'll be like, no, no, no, we'll do a big Instagram post about this after. Yeah. Awesome. So are you training for a fight now? Not right now. right now? No. ⁓ I will hopefully have one more. I always have in the back of my head that I want to have one more fight. Then it'll be one more. Yeah, I know if I have one more, it will definitely be my last. That's for sure. There's a lot of... lot of, well, as you know, there's a lot of training and commitment that goes into fighting and getting ready for fights. Well, that's part of the reason it took me so long to agree to do it because Malcolm has been bugging me to do it since he did the fight to end the first time. he's like, you should do this. I don't have time. I got two jobs. We just started doing the podcast and everything. then it kind ⁓ of I came to that realization of I just have to make time and then now it's just kind of become my like woven into my routine. I love it. And now he's sucker be into it. Now I can't get out. Do you blame me? What? Do you blame me? Yeah, I blame you for a lot of things, but I still do it. You're in, but how much are you enjoying it though? No, I love it. I do. It's great. I wish more people. It's still your fault. no, I'm okay with taking it. It's my fault. But like the thrill that I got from doing boxing and like, for me, I have a hard time. If I don't have a fight, I can't train. Yeah. I'm one of those people. ⁓ But I know that when you have like a set destination or set goal, your whole life changes. Your mindset changes. You start focusing. I know when we podcast, we drink beer. I try not to outside of that. Yeah. Because I try to focus on my diet. But, know, taking creatine, taking all these different supplements to make sure that all my stamina is good. But like, it's great feeling. Like every day you wake up, it's like, feel refreshed. Or like, I'm about to lose in sparring today, but I know I'm going to gain X amount of experience. So like, it's those like mini wins that makes, you know, even during the winter time, winter's daunting. I hate winter. I hate snow. If can live in the summer, year round I would, but that's not a reality of living in Canada. Hey, you used to wear parkas all the time. It'd be like five degrees out and you're like winter coat bundled up. It would be cold. I'm not cold at times. me. I'm the same. I have heated vest. Yeah. But for me, like that's what boxing was. was just like, there's team sports, which is great, but you depend on teammates. Boxing, you still have teammates, but it also relies on yourself. What you're doing on and off in the ring, I guess you could say, matters more where in sports, you don't necessarily have to practice the same way. especially at our age, we're at the point where we have other responsibilities. So it's like, I say it, this is my therapy. You know what mean? I go and I hit the bay, anything that's on my chest, I'm punching it out. ⁓ my release. So that's just me. For you, you find boxing as a great alternative for therapy or a great addition for therapy? I would say addition, but also a great alternative. I, boxing, like when you're at the gym, you have no choice but be there 100 % physically and mentally. You're standing right in front of the bag. It's like, okay, I gotta punch this bag now. So you're there physically and mentally. I almost feel like it's spiritual too. Yes. You know when you hear like how you connect and like your body's talking to you and everything you do. just tells me to stop. But then, and then at rumors, don't do it. I have question for you because I know this is like a tradition. When you're coaching, how mean are you? I'm not mean. so you don't make- I'm not a mean one. So you don't make- burpees, burpees. ⁓ do you think that's mean? What? I... Okay, then I guess I'm a little bit mean. I'm a little bit mean. But... After I dislocated my shoulders, I'm very scared of doing burpees. Yes. But the first time we were doing boxing, it was like, my God, I hate burpees. Yeah. And like, and especially with Abdul, what do you be like, count down from 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2... Two, two, two, And he just like, he keeps doing that for five minutes. like, how long is this? Two. Yeah. yeah. But, when you're coaching, are you doing the exact same thing? Like I know it's beneficial, but is like that your type of technique on how you coach? Yeah, I just, I, when I'm coaching and I'm teaching, it's just, I like the ladies to have fun, move around, gain the confidence. It's about community. Yep. ⁓ yeah, like we do a lot of burpees and a lot of pushups and yeah, jumping jacks, Russian twists. We do lots of that calisthenics stuff. I wish I could get better at skipping though, but I just got to doing it. But I'm a big boy. So like the weight transfer isn't the same or the ropes are not big enough to like go actually around. And when you're taller that that rotation is a lot longer than everyone else. So. Just got to swing it faster. I don't know. Yeah. But if you swing it too fast and you go off work. You would know you don't. You can't dance. Yeah. I can probably skip better than you though. Probably. You're also lighter. ⁓ all right. Yeah. So one thing I would ask though is like, and especially for the audience, what would you say with your whole three chapters of boxing is For someone who wants to get into boxing and with all the experience that you have, what would you like to tell someone who's like, kind of itching to get into boxing, but I don't know if I want to? Just try it out. Like just, yeah, just say, try it out. And you know what? Like you saying earlier, sometimes it's like, some days you don't want to show up or just try it out and you might surprise the heck out of yourself. You might have a lot of fun. Or not you might, you will have a lot of Yeah, you will have a lot of I just think it's cool that like, it's such a an equalizer, like, so you go to the gym and everybody is coming from what different walks of life, different situations, but everybody is doing the same thing. Yes. And all you have is your gloves. That's it. And hopefully a mouthpiece. ⁓ but you know what mean. everybody is just, everyone is at the exact same. So there's nobody that's like, ⁓ I come from this, I'm better. We're doing the exact same thing. Everyone can get it just the same. It's just, it's a cool concept from the like... doing the charity event. Because it's a lot of people that like everyone comes totally different walks. Oh, for sure. For sure. And like, especially when nobody's done it before. So you see some people that come in with all this confidence and all this. And then, like you said, everybody has a plan till they get punched in the head. Yeah. And then their mindset totally changes. Like people get humbled. For sure. confidence goes up. People's confidence goes down. Yeah. So it's just It's cool to see. I agree. Any quotes and remarks that you'd to say? Go Boomers! Go Boomers! And MPT! And MPT! He has to say MPT. I'm technically on boat checks. He's a freeloader. not freeloader. I'm not a freeloader, I'm a bandwagon jumper. I don't know. Just jumping all over the place. Wow! I appreciate you taking the time today to give us so much insight. think Scott learned so much today. even I did, I learned so much as well. I knew a lot about you and we talked obviously. But it was just great to get down and dirty on the whole logistical everything from Lawrence to now. So I'm looking forward to seeing you rough again. Thank you. ⁓ I there's a few events going on in the city and obviously the novice tournament is going to happen in August. after you do a Brampton Cup, I guess that's your next target. I'll be there. There's going to be a little girl that goes there just to watch you and be like, that's my favorite rap. Yeah, that's true. I feel like that's the dream, right? I hope so. Perfect. Well, thank you again. Thank you. And that's an episode. All right. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Perfect. Peace.