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Stop Getting Rate Shopped · The Ground Game

0:03
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the ground game for mortgage professionals built for the fight.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: Hosted by Brian Lovell and Mark Mylam.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: This is like uh this is like Dr.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Evil.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: This is what I'm gonna do here.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Mr.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Bigglesworth.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: All right, welcome to another episode of the Ground Game Podcast.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: I am Brian Lovell here with a special guest, Tank, and as always, Mark Mylam.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: And uh we're gonna continue on to the episode we were just talking about the commoditization of the loan officer and the lender.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: And Mark, I think what we want to talk about in this segment is we're kind of doing this to ourselves a little bit.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: But then the second part of this is hey, as a loan originator, what are some things that you could be doing right now to help you in uh maybe helping you win some more deals or at least reduce how much you're getting shopped?
1:01
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I'll say we talked a little bit about this on the prior episode.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: It in my opinion, there are three villains of commoditization going on here.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: We talked about it in the last episode that one of these is just the architecture of our business.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: The loan estimate.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: We all have to do it the same way.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Congress wants us all to do it the exact same way.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like we're all pilots.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: You got to fly the exact same way.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: And then even our industry partners, the CFPB, even Freddie Mac on their website encourages as borrowers who shop tend to save blankety blank, right?
1:35
SPEAKER_02: As we've talked about, I can't imagine the National Association of Home Builders telling consumers what you should really do is shop builders, because you can you can beat them up on price and get a better deal.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Or that the NAR would ever say about real estate agents, what you should really do is don't value service, don't value expertise, don't value reputation, just value how much they charge, right?
1:56
SPEAKER_02: And that is a little bit of what our industry, you know, our industry does.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: That's the architecture of mortgage.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: That's villain number one.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Villain number two, we talked about too, which is technology.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: Technology tends to reduce things to a number on a screen.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: That's how you make your decision, and all the stuff you can't see is not represented there because it doesn't fit onto a screen.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: That's number two.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: The third villain is the one that we don't see coming, which is us.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: We are the third villain.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: And what I found in my career is that salespeople as they produce more, as they close more and their funded volume goes higher, they actually become even worse at this.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: They actually will do the I'll do this for next to nothing, yes, or nothing to get the volume, because likely if they are a high producer, and I've had those years in my career where I've been a high producer, where likely volume really means something to them.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: It means a lot more to them, maybe than getting paid.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Like volume is a big thing.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: They're likely those top producers go to the awards annual thing.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: I know because it's important to me to go to be there, yeah.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: And I and so we can we can wind up doing this to ourselves where we basically say, hey, no matter what, bring that quote back to me and I'll see if I can match it.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So, man, listen, going back to that, like high producers will have a tendency to do that sometimes.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, have you ever done a deal like super, super skinny?
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And what, like, I guess what my my first question is why and what was the outcome?
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And then the first thing I'm thinking of is, you know, sometimes maybe it's the first time you get a referral from this agent and you want the opportunity to be like, I want them to see what it looks like to work with me.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm no different than any other salesperson, particularly salespeople who really are very motivated to close volume.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: I have had those moments where I feel like I'm failing.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm not getting the getting the deals like I want to be getting them.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I have had those deals where I've cut my comp down to 25%, um, you know, 50%, whatever it might be, uh, you're in a different referral lead lead source bracket and you're getting that deal in, but you're gonna make one-fourth of what you're accustomed to making or what your comp plan is.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: And I do find that even though you get that deal and you're you're sort of glad that you got it, boy, those are the deals where you wind up bleeding through your eyeballs for someone because it just is so much work, and you can't help but remind yourself every single time you're talking to them on Sunday or working up yet another quote or doing the rapid rescore on the credit because now the credit score went up 20 points.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: Whatever it is, you just remind yourself that yeah, I'm the one who agreed to do this for next to nothing.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So um we talked about the flywheel kind of at the end of the last episode.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And my question is is like, is the flywheel is like, what's our fault in that?
4:54
SPEAKER_00: What's our part in that?
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think our our first fault is, and this is something that's super controllable, is how we present the information up front.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: So just this morning, first contact I received from a client who was referred by an agent who's never referred me a deal before.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: This literally happened to me this morning.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: That's what we were just talking about.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: And so my response back to them was first of all, respond quickly, right?
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Every here's the thing, if I could tell originators or really anybody anything about this, is my experience is we are always 24-7, 365, we are always, always, always communicating.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: When you're not communicating, you're communicating.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Not communicating, love that.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Not communicating is sometimes saying, You're just not that important to me.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Or I just have other things going on and I'm distracted, you know, or whatever it might be.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: So my the first thing I would say is respond quickly.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Give options, right?
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Hey, uh, thanks for reaching out.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, happy to help.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Um I would recommend that we start with a video chat if you're comfortable with that.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Zoom or teams, your choice.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Here are some times I'm available.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: If you prefer phone, that's fine too.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: As a measure of last, I say this this way, as a measure of last resort, there's a link in my signature for an online application.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I prefer to to chat with you, but if that's more convenient for you, let me know.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: So I give them that, but that's not what I lead with.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, that because that's just a website and everybody's everybody's got it.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Everybody has a URL.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: Ideally, what they're going to say is, wow, um, well, my wife will be home at three.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: I'll be home at four, whatever.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And can we do a video chat then?
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Now we're going to get to talk to each other.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: You're going to get to hear the inflection in my voice.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to get to really see the expression on your face when we talk about that home or that monthly payment.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to see, I'm going to all of a sudden learn so much about you.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: And I actually have my office set up purposefully.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that there's stuff all around me to make connection.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: I've got, I'm going to, I went to Auburn.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: My Auburn helmet is on my shelf.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: I love Porsches.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: There's a model of a Porsche 9-11 on my shelf.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: I was an airline pilot.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: There's a little bit of an airline pilot thing going on behind me.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: I have won a few awards doing this.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Those awards are back there on that shelf.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: It's all legitimate and intentional.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: Nothing is fake.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: It's all real.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: But it is very intentional because I want to make some kind of connection.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And you'd be surprised how many times it's like, oh man, it's great to talk to you.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for your help.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad that I didn't dismiss you just because you're an Auburn fan.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Somebody would say that to me, you know.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: And they're an Alabama person, and then we're talking about football, you know, and we're connecting.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Which is honestly, I know that sounds like I'm trying to take the focus off of just the nuts and bolts of it.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Life is so much better with real connection.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: You know?
7:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: And that's we can have that in this profession.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And we owe that to ourselves to try to have something like that and not just reduce everything to a transaction.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So you you're going to take me down a road that we weren't planning on to talk about.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: But um and I don't want to make this an exercise of one way is better than the other, somebody's right and somebody's wrong, because I see top producers do this multiple different ways.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: But you brought up your website as being as a last resort.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Just out of curiosity, what percentage of like your applications are actually done online versus you typing and talking?
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: I would say less than 10%.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Easily.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: It's very rare that someone does it.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: It, you know, sometimes it's an it's an inevitable.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm at a sporting event and I I wouldn't even be able to hear them, but they need something and I'll say, here's my link, or I can talk at this point in time.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, I'm doing something with family.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: It's somebody's birthday, and I I cannot step out of that room.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Or I'm at the hospital visiting, so I can't step out of that room.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: That those are the times where I will lean on it and I'll explain why I would encourage you to click the link, but it is my last okay, last resort.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just think for me, like when I'm thinking about it, if you're just sending somebody to a URL, you're you're just a URL, right?
9:07
SPEAKER_00: And like there's a hundred thousand URLs out there that have lone originators connected to them.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: But I've also seen top producers like you that do most of their applications online.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: But it's also after they've already set up and established a relationship with some sort of phone call or conversation.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: So it might be that then, hey, if it's convenient for you, you can go to my website and fill out the application, and then I will call you back and we'll go over it.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: So I know there's folks that subscribe to both sides of that, but I think the lesson I'm wanting everybody to hear is if you're just a hey, go to my website, like they can get that anywhere.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: You know what I think is a really cool exercise to put salespeople through.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: And what I have tried to do with you know, me as I've evolved in my career is to say, hey, you're an LO, you've been doing this a couple of years.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Take a take a thorough pre-approval without looking at any piece of paper or any computer screen.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Just have a conversation with me and ask me all the necessary questions that you need and engage me in dialogue, but I want you to do it off the top of your head.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't want you to have to look at so, oh, now I need date of birth.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh, now I need email address.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: I want you to try to do it, try to get all the information without needing some sort of support mechanism.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: This happened to me yesterday.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: So yesterday I'm leaving North Georgia, we're leaving Lake Burton, and we're driving back to Atlanta.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, I'm in the car for 15 minutes.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: I get a phone call.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: And it's the the this client, her name is Emily, and she said, uh, hey, I've seen a property I kind of like.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: I live in Birmingham.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you were recommended by so-and-so.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Could you help get pre-approved?
10:50
SPEAKER_02: I've got a two-hour drive in front of me.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: So my options pull over.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: That's not what I really want to do.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: I can tell her to wait.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: But she actually mentioned that I was the first of three names that was given.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Or I can just have a conversation.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: And so I did.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: I asked her, I said, Hey, we have some proprietary technology, which we do, and it's encrypted.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Would you be open to me recording this conversation?
11:15
SPEAKER_02: And she said, Absolutely, that's totally fine.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Being I hit record on my iPhone and I just start talking.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm driving and I'm talking and we're connecting, we're having the greatest conversation.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: She lives in Birmingham, she's decided to root for Alabama.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm an Auburn.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about that.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: She went through a divorce six months ago, and I, you know, I went through a divorce in 08.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: So we're kind of talking about, you know, life moving on and that better days ahead kind of thing.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: We have those conversations.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: We're connecting in all kinds of great ways.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm getting all the information I need from her.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: It's being recorded, and then you have the ability to read the transcription later or however you want to get it into your LOS or point of sale system.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: We have a really cool upload where I can just upload the audio file and it'll do it for us on our side.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: But regardless of however you get that information, I think that is such a great way as a salesperson to start honing your craft is try to do it with zero prompting, zero external input.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Do it from here, right?
12:12
SPEAKER_02: So how many folks do you think can do it?
12:14
SPEAKER_02: I bet almost anyone who's been doing this for three years can do it.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: It's just, are they working that muscle?
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Right?
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Are they working that muscle?
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'll forget to like, oh crap, I forgot to ask them what their date of birth is.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: I gotta call them back.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, there might be something that I I miss.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: And invariably, when you get to the social security number, you know, I always say this recording is not being shared anywhere outside of our server, you know, just make sure they understand that.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: But I would bet most originators can do it.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: The question is, do they push themselves to do it?
12:44
SPEAKER_00: To do it, yeah.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, the the funny thing is I'm sitting here listening to things, and I'm and I'm asking myself, like Brian can so I haven't originated full time since 2011.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: That's a long time.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I probably do, I don't know, eight to a dozen loans a year just to keep my pencil sharp.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: 100% I know I I could do it.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: And the re and it's because um the a 1003 is a 1003, right?
13:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think for me though, what would be crazy is or I would do it exactly how I've taken every single loan application I've ever taken.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: In other words, I wouldn't bounce around and start over here and come back here.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Like the 1003 is laid is laid out, you know, pages one through five.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: I would do it exactly like that because that's just how I know it in my head.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Invariably too, they'll say something that leads you to filling out another piece of the app in your head.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah or verbally.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: They'll say, uh, you know, I've had this home in Birmingham for for four years, and I do want to sell it, but uh I'm not gonna be, you know, I'm not gonna be selling it to buy this new home, which immediately gives me this.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: Should we talk about the bridge loan?
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Do the does she need extra liquidity?
13:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm I'm going through that piece in my head.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: Or it's gonna be a uh departing, a departure residence that's gonna be sold.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Is there gonna be a chance they're gonna make a principal reduction post-closing?
13:58
SPEAKER_02: We need to talk about recasting, potential EPO.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: I've got to make sure I include that in my dialogue as well.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So kind of getting back on script here, um, let's talk a little bit about what are some things as an LO that you can do at the point that you're quoting.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna leave you as a differentiator in the market.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, we were talking a little bit earlier, I'd share with you, like I think if you are just sending the LE that is generated from your company's LOS system, yeah, like man, that's tired and old.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: And you're you're really not differentiating yourself at all.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: So I make my talk my clients take a blood oath with me first.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: All right, perfect.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: I wish I could like prick a thumb.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: You cut your hand, I'll cut mine.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh no, I I so the quoting process, first of all, the the conversation matters.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: So don't shortcut that conversation.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: That is such an opportunity.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Not for tricky sales tactics like mirroring.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't mean that.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: I just mean really kind of getting to know them.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: And don't be afraid of the question of what part of this process gives you the most anxiety?
15:07
SPEAKER_02: I think that question is under asked.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: Even for me, I don't ask enough.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: What part of all this when you go to bed at night is the part that you that ruminates in your head?
15:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: Is it cash needed at closing?
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Is it monthly payment?
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Is it is this the right house?
15:21
SPEAKER_02: Is this the right neighborhood?
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Or how can I, how can I speak to where we get laser focused instead of me carpet bombing you with information?
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's do laser guided missiles, right?
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Let me let me get to the thing that you're worried about.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: That's the very first thing.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: And then after you hang up with them or close out the video chat or whatever it is that you're doing, and you go to start working this up, being thoughtful about them.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: Am I giving them the options that they really asked me about?
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Or or am I just teeing up what I tee up for everybody?
15:55
SPEAKER_02: We have this cool product that really rewards people with residual income.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: So whenever I see that, hey, they're putting down 30% and they've got uh after their net pay, they've got 6,000 left over at the end of every month.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm gonna show them this because this is what they asked for.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna show them this over here too.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: Because this may actually scratch them where they itch even more, and they don't even know anything about it because it's not their job.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's my job.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: So I need to be the one.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: So man, there's so much that happens in that first conversation and then that first presentation of information, you can really capture your business right there and cut down on the commoditization right there.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, now you're not gonna eliminate it, but but you can cut it back.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: So um go on going back to like I said, like, hey, if you're just using that LE that you generate from your LOS system, like that's tired and old.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: What are some unique ways that you could present options to a borrower?
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's great software out there.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh there's one uh that we have familiarity with called Deal Details that I I give a strong recommendation to.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: It's just a really clever, informative, intuitive way to present information to a client.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, even if you just take the quote that you can generate and even, you know, get your fees in there, make sure it's compliant, ask ChatGPT or Claude to create a side-by-side, you know, some sort of presentation, HTML file that you could host on a server if you wanted to.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: You can even email it to them and they can open it up.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: The thing is, you know, it won't look good on their phone, but if they do it on their laptop, it'll it'll be fine.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: You could do that.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think anything that provides quality information that they're there, it isn't just here's your rate, here are your fees, here's your payment.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: It would be it you try to take it next level.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Why should I pay points or should I not pay points?
17:43
SPEAKER_02: Are discount points tax deductible based upon the type of property that you're buying?
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Could you claim all of that deduction in year one?
17:49
SPEAKER_02: What would that mean for in your tax bracket?
17:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, is this a year to itemize or should you still claim the standard?
17:54
SPEAKER_02: All of these questions are valuable questions that you need to answer up front.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: I you know, I I uh had an example uh recently I was doing a coaching call with a group of LOs, not a one-on-one.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that we were talking about is especially given the market that we're in right now and we're in an increased interest rate environment, that are we slowing down long enough after we've made a presentation to a borrower to talk to them about like what you were saying, what gives you anxiety, what gives you fear?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: What questions do you have about this?
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes they're not necessarily objections, right?
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Like and and some of those concerns may be, well, hey, well, I have a fear that I'm buying an asset that could actually depreciate instead of not depreciating.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know whether buying points is the right thing in this market or not.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know what would it look like if I lived in this home three years, five years, seven years, or ten years.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: But are we slowing down long enough after we've made the initial presentation of uh options for a borrower to then circle back around and say, hey, yeah, you know, now that you've had a little bit of a chance to digest it, what questions or fears or anxieties do you have?
19:06
SPEAKER_02: It's one of those first things to go when you get busy too.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: Like you get busy and all of a sudden the hours in the day are really tight.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: That that follow-up, that thoughtful, let's have a conversation about this tends to get, you know, kicks kicked to the side because you're trying to get more quotes out.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: You're trying to get more, you know, you want to go to that closing, you want to get the quote out, you want to take that agent to lunch, all of that stuff that we do that's business development.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: But we have to remember that that those follow-up conversations are business development in the best possible way.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: You're trying to create, you're trying to really help this client, not just for their circumstances, but also so they'll tell everyone they know this individual spent time with me.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: I was important enough to warrant their time after even after I had locked the raid, even after I had re-authorized the credit pool, and and they spent that time with me.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you every service that I hire for, we have this fixer-upper in North Georgia that we bought last year.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And so it it, there's a lot of fixing up that's getting done.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of fixing up.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And whether it's rodent exclusion or you know, fixing the screened in porch or the the front door lock doesn't work the way that it's supposed to.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Whomever it is that I hire, man, the the more that person engages with me and has dialogue with me, the more I'm gonna hire them again.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Or I'm gonna recommend them to somebody else up there.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, you know, as salespeople, one of the things that we do is we think we do such a great job presenting that once we present, we're just waiting for them to say yes.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let the CRM follow up with them and I'll move on.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Pick which one, and we and we're not intentional about that.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think some of that you you made the mention of it when we're busy, that lacks, right?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you know, we're in an environment now where, and this will be another episode, but the MB NBA annual is this week, right?
20:49
SPEAKER_00: And the NBA economic forecast came out and said to expect in 2027 a 5% decrease in purchase transactions, as well as to expect rates in the sevens for the balance of 2027.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm giving I'm throwing out all the good news right now.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Wait, how often how accurate are these forecasts, by the way?
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you look at what their September forecast was, it's gonna make you scratch your head a little bit a little different.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna make you scratch your head a little bit.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, where are we getting these numbers from?
21:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can throw darts at a dartboard and get a bullseye once every now and then 30 throws every now and then.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: But I think I go back to like when when things are super, super busy, um, we don't do the great the follow-up well, but because when we also have abundance, what do we learn from that?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: I I think in the environment that we're in right now, we're really gonna see loan originators separate themselves from others by how good of a job that they do.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Because now if if business is a little bit more scarce, are we gonna be a little bit more intentional?
21:49
SPEAKER_00: And I guess what I'm saying is like when things are easy, we're not at our very best.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: When things are challenging, the best in us comes out.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: It's the the thing that you dread and fear the most turns out to be the thing that propels you and makes you better.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I don't think I got any better at originating in 2020 and 2021.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: I was busy as hell, making the most money I've ever made, helping the most clients I've ever helped in my career.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: And I learned how to do it quickly.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I learned how to squeeze a lot into a defined amount of time.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: But I've become such a better originator post-pandemic in a higher rate environment with fewer transactions because it's what the market demands of me.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: It demands that.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: And you either rise to that and you have to evolve through it.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: And I've certainly stubbed my toe multiple times as I've figured out better ways to do things.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: And be willing to, you know, there's a little bit of that of, you know, failing forward.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: Be willing to fail and figure it out and do better the next time.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: And that it's humbling.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: It's a humbling experience to go through that.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: But I do, I agree with you.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: The best pieces, components of my life have all happened as a result of something that was per a perceived negative at the time.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Also, Mark, anything else to add on this specific topic?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: I think your point about rates going up and transactions decreasing next year as the MBA is forecast.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: It's an important one to take in context.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: And then we were joking about it a little bit about the the sort of fragility of forecasts.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, how accurate are they ever?
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think we have to look back at 2023 as a as a maybe the guide of how quickly it it got bad and how quickly it turned around.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: In February, February 27th of this year, a par rate was 5.99% on a 30-year fix.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: Today it's somewhere in the mid-sevens, you know.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, we've lost a point and a half in rate in seven months.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: It and there wasn't anything radically different in February about the federal debt or uh inflation or wages or labor or jobless claims or all these metrics?
23:57
SPEAKER_02: The the big difference there is the war.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't think solely we're here because of the war, but it was certainly one of the catalysts.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Is there nothing out there that would tell you that it's a possibility that this could be unwound and we could be back in those at those levels by February 27th of next year?
24:14
SPEAKER_02: I think it's entirely possible.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: And so, would you have rather spent this time, however long it is, getting really good and better at what you do and you know, honing your chops.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: So you're ready for that.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the way to look at it.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Is I don't know exactly when it's going to get better, but it's probably gonna happen before I before I realize.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and be and your point is to be ready.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, be ready for it.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Ground Game Podcast for Mortgage Pros Built for the Fight.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: It is our goal to add massive value to you every single week and help you out in your business, whether you're a loan originator, an operator, or an owner.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: And hey, if there's anything specific you'd like to see Mark and I chatted up about, just leave us a comment.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to chat.