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Anora · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, listen to all the men I've tolerated before
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: with Navley Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Julia
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Washington from Pros and Glow and a bunch of podcast
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Speed is back with us today and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you know her and you love her. We're here to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: talk about Honora and more importantly, whether white men should
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: still be allowed to direct and or write films.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Julia, welcome, Thank you, Thank you for having me back,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you for always having me on your show.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me in twenty twenty five, The
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Year of the Hater, The Year of the Hater.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I woke up a hater. I woke up. Hey, I was.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Born a hater. I'll die a hater. Direct quote from
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: my sister was born a hater, Die hater. Kendrick said
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: it was fine in one hundred percent. And in this
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: theme of the Year of the Hater, we will be
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: talking about the Oscar winning movie A Nora and why
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Julia and I are confused.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Oh I'm so uncomfortable. Firstly, I do want to say
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I do have a presentation that I do about like
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: who's allowed to tell the story and like what makes
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: it okay, and like when is it okay? And then like, what,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: it's a whole thing. It's like an hour long workshop.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I've presented it a couple of times, so I.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Feel acutely, I thought you meant for like today you
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: were like tolerators. I brought slides. No, I knew that
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you had done this work previously. I was like, what
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is she talking about?
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: She has a whole last presentation for us to Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I do know. And I feel like that is the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: place I'm coming from in our conversation about Honora aka
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Annie Well.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And as you know, I have been trying to only
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: consume women made media. Girls, gays and days only are
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: allowed to write and produce the things that I want
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to be involved in.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Now that was.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Mostly on my Spotify and then I realized. I was like,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I watched so much male centered TV White Lotus for example,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: But does Mike White identify it as queer zia?
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I thought I thought he was gay? Am I wrong?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: The one tell me I'm wrong? That's that's something that
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I think is a thing.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: It's like a Mandela effect situation. Who's to say?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: But anyways, so he makes the cut and we'll be
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: doing an episode on White Lotus. But I I think
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the only reason I couldn't joy Anora is because the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Academy presented me the option to think about this movie deeply.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I think if it had just been one of my
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: like cheap movie night, free popcorn Tuesdays, and I'm just
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in the theater watching it, it would have ended and
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I would have went, Wow, that's a wild ride, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: then I would have walked out of it. And then
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it would have won Best Picture and I would be like, huh,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: because that movie would have left almost no impression on me,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Like it would have just been like a fun romp
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: if you will.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I texted you, oh, this is pretty woman,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: but gritty. That's and I feel like that probably made
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: its way into its pitch somehow, and I'm just speculating.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know, well, I don't work in Hollywood.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: And then on one of the posters, I saw that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it was like colleid itself a Cinderella story, and I
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: was like that sicky also feels wrong, and not because
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: of the Honora character and.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Who she is and like what her line of work is,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: but because of like the story of Cinderella is she's
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: being saved from a Heinas situation. Sex work is real work, correct,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: So are you implying that her work situation she or
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: are you implying that she's being saved through this Hainas
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: situation of being married to this kid? Like I like,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I help me. It's like one of those things where
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: just like, help me understand where the Cinderellas is well.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: And as you know, I read the script before I
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: watched the movie, so I had to be inside the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: brain of the man and then I had to watch
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the man's movie.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he also directed it. He wasn't just the writer,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: he wasn't just the and he wasn't just the director.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: He was also the editor. Yeah, uh huh, it was
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: it was his stick. And I kept texting you.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, so, I'm reading this fucking screenplay and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, it's like they gave an oscar to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the eighth grade boy, the eighth grade middle school boy
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that lives inside of Baker.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Well, because like this is so I don't know where
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: you want to start, but for me, it was like
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the seed the movie opens up with just it's an ass.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's an ass.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Because so I'm like Okay, so you're like hard launch
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: establishing that she is a sex worker, got it? But
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: compared to like hustlers, right with it's called hustlers with
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: j Lo. Yes, they established it in a way that
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: didn't feel cheap to the industry, and by industry I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: mean sex work.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think the thing about that opening scene
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: is it is what the whole thing about the scenes
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: in the club for me was, this is what men
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: fantasize going to clubs is like, and then this is
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the male experience in a dance club, an exotic dance club.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: In Hustlers, I know Usher was one of the clients,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: but I don't remember seeing any men in that club.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And it's because that story was told through the lens
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of the actual exotic dancers, which I feel like the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: whole time, I was like, because it's called a Nora,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: that's her, that's our leading main character.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: And I feel like, sir, were you trying to tell
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: us this story through her lens? Because if that's the case,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't be seeing her there'd be I would think
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: if that in my mind, if that's the case, then
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the visuals needed to be different. Correct.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That's how I also feel about it. Another movie that
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I recently saw that I think offers a different lens
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: to work that is adjacent to the work that Annie
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: does in the movie is The Last show Girl. Again,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: it's all through Pamela Anderson's experience.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I very rarely.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Get to watch men oggle her and she is a
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: topless showgirl in Vegas.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this whole I was like, I
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: don't need to see this old guy. I don't want
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I don't need to hear the conversation, Like, you don't
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: have to establish the conversation. Where does your family know
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: you do this? Does your father know you do? So
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that's still to be placing a level of shame on
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: this line of work.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, And then there's the actual like scenes with Ivan,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and it's the way that it was written out for
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: me where I was like, immediately, I have the it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Well, neither of the characters have fully developed rained because
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Ivan slash Vanya is twenty one and Annie's twenty three,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and this very much felt like a middle aged man's
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: interpretation of a twenty three year old woman. Yes, continue sorry.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So like Annie asked Ivan to sit on his hand
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and say and he's like, yeah, sit on my hands
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, hands under your lap. And I
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: was like, this does read like a male centered fantasy
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, the dancer likes me. It has
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with the money. She just like really
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: likes me.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Because at one point doesn't she say like,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not supposed to be doing anything. Yeah, yes,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: this is a no no, but I like you. Ivan nods.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Annie stands, turns and removes her bottoms, twirling the thorn
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: around on her fingers. She sits and straddles. Ivan is
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: losing his mind. I'm like, that's a very immature way
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: to write something onebody needs to read a romance novel. Well,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, also, the detail isn't necessary. This is
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a screenplay that you yourself are going to direct, so
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you don't actually have to write out her every move.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: At one point, when they go back to the club
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to find Ivan, there's there's a lie that says some
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: knotty things happening behind some of those doors. And I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: highlighted it and went this one best screenplay, some naughty
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: things happening behind some of those doors. Again, you're directing it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: It is known to us that those things would be
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: happening in the private rooms of the Exotic Dance Club, Like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: did you just write that out for funzies for you?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Like there were so many instances of that where I
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: was like, we didn't need this amount of detail. I
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: recently read the screenplay for Bridesmaids. Do you remember the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: very graphic sex thing that opens up Bridesmaids where we
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: find out that John Hamm is funny for the first time?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, great, And it's a lot.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Of physical comedy, but they are boning one another. Literally,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: none of the physical comedy is written out, Like whoever
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: directed that movie was like Kristen Wig and John Hamm
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and a director will figure that out. I don't have
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: to think about it that hard. And I was like,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that's how I prefer it.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that. I understand that. I
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: also feel like there was a lot. So this is
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: where I'm like, do I not get this movie because
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the entirety of the Internet is like, oh, it's so good,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: you have to watch it an hour into it, and
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I was just like, okay, so now we finally got
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: to the point where she finds out that like it's
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: actually a bad thing that they got married, there's trouble
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: in paradise, but it took an hour to get there,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and then the scene where he takes off and she's
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: screaming and that all kind of comes to a head
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: is too long, because it's like it's like, do you
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: think twenty three year old women are that dense that
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: they can't like like, she watched him take off, she's
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: assuming he's getting help. But then you spend the next
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: what felt like five minutes maybe longer, having them yell
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: at her, physically assault her to get her to calm
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: down and to like explain to her. And even still
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you're like, after you've tied her up and put a
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: gag on her, you're still having to you still feel
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: like you're having so like all of that could have
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: been tightened up for me. He's just like, Okay, I
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: get it, I get it, Like do you did this?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And then I paused. It was like we still have
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: an hour and fifteen minutes, Like we haven't even gotten
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: to the part yet where its parents, Like are you
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: kidding me? Like what? Well?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Because also that whole scene of him fleeing and then
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: them accosting her and screaming at her and her screaming
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: back and assaulting them and all of it. That's under
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the comedy part of the screenplay. Like viewers keep asking
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: me to put the comedy brain onto that, and I'm like,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think hitting people is funny. I don't know.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I like that. That is very listen, that's scary. That's
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: really fucking scary. And as a person, without going into detail,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: as a person who has been in abusive situations, that's
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: not funny.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: No.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: And I literally wrote, Oh, I wonder if his like
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: vision was, you know, because they tire her up, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like this the whole time. I'm like, this whole
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: scene is just in and I put in quotes. It's like,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: she's so tough, she can hold her own against two
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: bit strong men. Like is that the descriptor? Because I like,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I already assume that Annie can hold her own. She
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is a sex worker. I'm sure there are a ton
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: of people who come in and think that they can
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: abuse her, slash she We see her living situation, it's her,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and we you know, we realize it's her sister. At
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: some point, she takes trains, she's you know, she We
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: can assume that there's a level of extent of her
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: being able to hold her own because of the line
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: of work she's in and because of her commute, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: because her parents are nowhere to be found. Right, Like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: there's a passive comment about, like, well, if you want
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to meet my parents, you have to go to Florida
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: to meet my mom and her man, which is a
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: good implication, right of like whatever her family life is.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: With that said, it's like, you don't have to show
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: me that she can beat up two grown men because
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: like all the twenty three year old women I knew
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: when I was twenty three wouldn't correct.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: And I also think that, like again, it's like how
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Game of Thrones used to always make sure that like
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: a woman got bet up at least once a season
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to heighten that woman's storyline.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I hate it. I hate it. We don't need we
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: don't need physical violence against women to heighten a woman's storyline, right.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And then I know I'm with you.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I think that the.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Movie it's a lot of credit that I don't think
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it earns like I think that people want to put
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: it like it's so empowering for women who are in
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the sex industry. Please write in, I need to know
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: because I felt like Hustler did that correct.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I felt like Jalo's movie was very much like we
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: are taking our power back, you mother ef thin pieces
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: of shit who abuse us, but we love and like
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: like there was just something so fantastic about that movie.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: And it did not get the accolades that Anora is getting.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Of course it didn't.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I mean it, Jaylo did get nominated for an Academy award.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: That's a whole separate conversation, Like, I don't know if
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: she's recreater on he offers, but but I do think that,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: like it is a little bullshit that the female centered
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: movie versus this one, you know what I mean? Well,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and also like.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: If you want me to feel empowered about what Annie's
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: job is, I should just spend more time with her
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: and her co workers and her actual relationships within that structure.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: She goes from a sex worker to a wife almost overnight.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's like, basically like be my girlfriend for
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: a week, okay, Richard Gere. And then she's like he's like,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I'll pay you ten thousand dollars and she's like fifteen whatever.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: They negotiate that, and then the view of that is
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: literally just them laying around while he's playing video games.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And then also like and she's draped on him and
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: she's like yeah, like a blanket, and then like party
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and having a good time in drugs galore, and he's
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: just he really is this sort of privileged kid who
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: hasn't contributed to the wealth. We learn that he's running
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: away from his obligations and responsibility to contribute to the wealth,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: which is the whole point of whatever. That's what that's
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: what you gotta do when you're in a wealthy family.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: You got to make the wealth bigger. And it really
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: felt to me like these are children playing grown up
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: who don't understand anything. With that said, though, again it
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: felt very much like inauthentic to that age group. I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: don't know, and you know what, I grew up in
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: California in an ad community. Like maybe I'm misinterpreting it
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: because I didn't grow up in Jersey and have access
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to Manhattan. But also I feel like again like I
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: feel like the acting was superb. Yeah, she Mikey Madison
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: did a great job, because that's not how she sounds.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: She does not talk like that, And that Ivan kid
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: immediately wanted to throat punch him, I was like, someone
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: give this kid an add orall so one crashed it
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: up into his vibe.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, he.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Played privileged, little whiny brat very very well.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I wanted him to take so many downers every scene.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, I honestly find him unwatchable because I'm
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: so aggravated by.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And also, wasn't that the point him being infantilized the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: whole time? Right? Like when the guy was like, how
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: who gave you permission to go to Vegas? He's twenty
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: fucking one, he can go to Vegas?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Like she talks to him like a toddler the first
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: time that they have sex, Like so she like strapped
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And again, if you had bought me into the agency
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that I perceived her having in the club and made
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: that a harsher reality for me when her agency was
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: ripped away. Because she's talking to him like a toddler.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: She is straddling that line of boys either want whoores
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: or mothers, and you can be both within the same
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: ten minutes. And she's like babying him about the condom,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: like do you want me to put this on? Do
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you want to put it on? Well, who's gonna do this?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And like.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very poor. No, yeah, and like but also
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and then there's also demonstrations of her being still really
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: young too, because she's like, I want a honeymoon and
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Disney World. I want to be in the Cinderella Suite.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And you're like, and I know there's Disney adults all
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: there's Disney adults everywhere. I understand that, but I think
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: in this context it was used to demonstrate how she's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: still also very young.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, and I think it also demonstrates it, like
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: what are her world views? Like the fanciest place she
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: can think of going with all of his money is
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Disney World, right, Like.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: If you tell me that you're like a billionaire arms dealer,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: maybe we are going to the south of France. We're
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: going to Europe for a year to start. We are
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: starting in the cell of France, and we are hitting
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: up so much of Europe.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm going to the White Lotus in Thailand. Okay,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. But again, it's like I don't
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: truly know anything about Annie still, even when the violence
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: starts to escalate, I'm like, give me something about her,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: give me something about her relationship with her mom. Does
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: she resent her sister for having to pay rent, like
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: we got a glimpse of that.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it very much is a story about her,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: but kind of through the kid's lens.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, through the boys lens, right, like off through a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: man's lens. I'm sorry. It's like when a guy is
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: talking about his tender day at the bar. Yeah, and
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: he didn't actually listen to number, when he didn't ask
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: you a question about your society whole time. That would
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: be silly. Yeah, that would be silly for him to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: ask you a question about your hope, stream's future, whatever
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: things you like, things you're currently doing. That would be silly.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, No, it's her story told through several lenses
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that aren't her own.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Which is so And then it left me feeling like
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I wish it had truly been her lens, or give
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: me through the lens of Ivan slash Vanya or even Igor,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: because he clearly was emotionally invested in his relationship with Annie. Annie. Anyway,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: do you think.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: That that's what they were trying to pull off, They
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: were trying to pull us, pull off how he saw her,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: If that was part of.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: The intention, I don't think they did it. I don't
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: think it worked.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Apparently I'm supposed to be feeling I'm supposed to be
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Apparently they're the romance of the movie. I'm supposed to
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: be feeling the romance between them the entire time. And
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what I did pick up? Right?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Like that? Igor was like like the minute they walked
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: in and he saw her, I was like, Oh, he's
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: into her, this is this is gonna be a thing.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: How are they going to handle? This is a thing?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Because in romance tropes, forbidden love right like, I can't
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: be I can't I can't date my brother's best friend,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: which that's not this. However, with that said, if men
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: read romance novels written by women, they would be able
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: to do jeeve the forbidden love narrative very well, because
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: that actually, now that you're saying that, I'm like, Louck,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I do kind of wish that there was more there
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: because when they're at the end, when they're on the
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: couch chatting and he's like, up the birthday do me
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and she's like it's your birthday and he's like, well
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it was yesterday, and that whole banter. I was like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: this isn't enough, This isn't enough. For me, like you're
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: just like, are we starting another movie? And then at
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the end when the thing happen happens between the two
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: of them, I was like, I didn't get enough of
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: this whole like forbiddenness. They're developing a connection. I never
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: felt like she was developing a connection with him. I
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: only ever felt he was developing a connection for her.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And then when they're in the car and she's like
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: climbing on top of him and they're doing and then
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, is she doing that because she Are
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you trying to tell us that she's connected with him
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: and wants to do this? Are you trying to tell
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: us that she's just reverting back to what she knows,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: which is sex work.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's the second. I think she assumed that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: he gave her something and now she has to hold
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: up her end of the transaction.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I hate it. I hate it. I hate it because
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: it would have been so much more powerful if that
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: makes her crying makes so much more sense. Listen, I
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: gotta tell you. After about an hour and twenty minutes,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I stopped fully paying attention because I was like, this
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: is so long movie. But I really felt I really
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: felt unsatisfied with I would have I would have loved
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: more between the two of them, because then her meltdown
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: would I think would have been more impactful to me,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: because then you're talking, then you're showing us that like, oh,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: she truly really did develop feelings for igor and and
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: now she doesn't know how to handle that because because
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: like that balance between the transactional for physical attention and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: love versus the reality of like, oh, I have real feelings.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Also, you couldn't convince me for anything that she actually
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: liked Vanya, Like, all of a sudden, I'm supposed to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: be sold that she's going to be really upset up
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: they're divorced, and I'm like yeah, because then you're not
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a billionaire. And people are like, no, it's deeper than that,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, it really shouldn't be. She should
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: be trying to swindle these people.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: She I mean, her first question when he's like marry me,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: and she's like, how many carrots are gonna put on
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: this finger? Like, yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't fully convinced
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: that she was convinced that he really wanted to marry her.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I thought I thought they were just doing role playing,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: like in my mind, it's like, oh, she thinks they're
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: doing role playing. Yeah, you know it. I feel so dumb.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: This movie makes you feel dumb.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Well because and I think it's because it's it's a
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people are projecting onto it, but they're not.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But the story itself, in the way that the characters
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: are developed, doesn't earn your projection. Okay, because a lot
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of chatter about this movie is also how it's like
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a big fuck you to the Olive garch and they
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: treat us like objects of the data.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Why because she screams at them during the annulment office, sure.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Or because they dump her. They literally tell her that
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: she's trash and that she gets ten thousand dollars for
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: her trouble for two days, which also I added I
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: put in my notes it's like, add a couple of
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: fucking zeros for this shit.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Correct, You're like, who cares if the IRIS is gonna
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: flag it? If you give me more than ten k,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I'll have a fuck. I also don't know how that works.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: If Russia gives me money, do they have to still
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: follow the ten thousand dollars rule?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I don't like. I don't understand. Yeah, if it's a gift.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: It's gotta be. It used to be. It was thirteen
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: K recently. I don't know if that's still the number.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: But anyways, so like people are projecting that onto that
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: which I understand the mindset of wanting to see like
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a scrappy woman taking down the oligarch or telling them
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to fuck off, or or seeing yourself in the late
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: stages of capitalism on the verge of a revolution, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you're watching the story and you're.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Like, that's right, fuck rich people. I get it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's what Sean Baker was trying to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: portray here, Yeah.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Because you don't. Actually they're coming out of it fine,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: like fuck rich people and fuck you to the oligarch
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: would be them not walking away. Okay, they're walking away. Fine,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: they're walking away like this has never happened.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Also, I don't think that Sean Baker gets to be
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: the person to talk to me about women being treated
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: like objects by men and by rich and how rich
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: people treat us the working class. I don't need a
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: white man to make a movie about the problems that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: he himself has cost right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I'm tired, like, as you know, you and I have
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: very different views on Ted Lasso because I was like,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that's why I can't talk with Ted, because he is
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: a white dude trying to be like masculinity's toxic.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Have you heard?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: And I was like, only been screaming about it for
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: five years. Book, I'm so glad you have so many trophies.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: How's your divorce going?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: They never want a trophy for Ted Lasso. They never
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: want an Emmy.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Oh you mean you mean you meant Emmys? Oh? I
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: thought you meant like in the.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Actually, I've been fucking streaming about the show getting awards.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: No they have, yes, yes, yes they have one right
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: which I feel I deserved to continue. Great.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So I can't get on board with with men just
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: like over asserting themselves on stories where I'm like, you're
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the villain in the story, Like why they didn't let
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Scar write the Lion King?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: No, but he did get a retelling in Lupasa.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I'm aware, and I still don't know where I fall
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: on the villain retellings. Yeah, because I'm like, sometimes people
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: just be bad. Well.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I did love Corolla for that reason because it gave
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: context in a way that felt authentic to like why
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: people like why women go bad. Oh yeah, I'm always
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: let's okay, twister, I'm always for it when they're like,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: this is why a woman's course promising young woman? Yeah,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I just feel like, because we're all so
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: so like busting at the scenes with how discontent we
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: are with everything currently, everyone projected a lot onto this
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: like weak ass movie that didn't actually give me fully, living,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: breathing characters that made me invested in what was happening. Yeah,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: and like there's yeah, yeah, I get that. And also
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I was going to do some more research, but then
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I actually don't want
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that in my head. Was it you or was it me?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Who told us that they didn't have an intimacy coordinator
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: for this Mikey Mikey Madison said it in an interview, right.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Mikey told us on TikTok, so when her memoir comes
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: out in twenty five years, I hope I'm still alive
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to read it, because I really feel like she's gonna
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: have a different feeling about it because she just turned
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: twenty six in the year of twenty twenty five, so
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: at best, she could have been twenty four making this movie. Yeah,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: and that's still. I mean, yeah, she's been in the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: industry for a while, but that you're so young.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: And honestly, someone did post the question like shouldn't that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: be their choice like as the actors, and I went, honestly, no.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I think it should just be standard practice in law by.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Now, especially when somebody's under the age of twenty five. Yes,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: because like a lot of times people who look really young,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: like the gal who plays Ginny and Ginny and Georgia's
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: she's in her twenties, but she looks really young, but
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: they're in high school having sex. So like, I need
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: somebody to create a scenario where everyone is safe, because
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: if I'm a teenager in the year of twenty twenty
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: three trying to research Ginny and Georgia or looking into it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: And I learned that that's a piece of comfort, but
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: just in general, for a comfort for the all parties involved,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: because like Jesse, then you have something to cite if
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: something goes wrong or if you feel uncomfortable. Well, the
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: intimacy coordinator gave us this routine to do, and this happened,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't comfortable for me. It's like an HR protection,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: but you know HR is bullshit and only protects the company.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: But still, and I get it, like no one wants
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to pay an extra person to be on set or whatever,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: but I literally thought that, like studios would be chomping
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: at the bits for intimacy coordinators so then when someone
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: rose a complaint, they could do the whole We did
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: everything we could. We hired that lady who's really good
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: about the bound trees. Like, we did everything we could.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: And and they're like, they are very intimate, repetitive sex scenes,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Like there are so many sex scenes and every time
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: and someone did texting, they were like a lot of
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: character and plot development was sacrifice just to watch her
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: get railed like a jack rabbit again.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, well even just in the opening
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: scenes when she's like giving these older men lap dances
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: and she's fully topless in a thin string bottom situation.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Like I first of all, let me preface this with yes,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I grew up to have shame around my body because religion. Secondly,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: regardless of that your full ass nude, essentially, I want
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: to know, and there's no vetting process for hiring people.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: How do I know that that old looking dude isn't
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: going to get too handsy while we're filming, but then
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: because of the context of the movie, he's gonna feel
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: justified for it. Like I want to know that I'm
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: safe in my work environment when this is what we're doing.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: LUs we forget Justin Baldoni wanted Blake Lively to be
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: fully nude during the Burst Saint and have his buddy
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: be the like og the obgn.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like it's
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: not what it is, buddy. We just want to make
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: like like we just I just want people to feel
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: comfortable with especially because you're not just getting naked on
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Like you're not just getting maked in front of room
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: feel people, You're getting naked on camera for millions of
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: people to see, Like you should feel comfortable and confident,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and how the development of that is happening.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Also, I don't think it should be my call as
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the talent to decide whether or not the intimacy coordinator
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: is on set. I think my call as the talent
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: is how I work with the intimacy coordinator and how
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: often I want meetings or like what's that going to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: look like on set and having an open relationship with
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: said intimacy coordinator, but if an authority figure from the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: movie that may win me an oscar comes to me
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and says, hey, Nanley, we're a little iffy on whether
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: or not we have the budget for the intimacy coordinator.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Yay or nay? I don't know.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: At twenty four years old, I wasn't making choices based
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: on what was best for me. I was making choices
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: based on like, okay, well, just like what makes it
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: okay for everybody, right right? And maybe that's not who
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Mikey is. But all I could think about was like,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: she shouldn't have been asked that question. That's an in
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: of her real question to ask your talent.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And who's to say the way that the question was asked.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: It was presented in a way that made her feel
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: safe to give an answer that she felt comfortable with exactly.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: And that's why I think it should just be standard practice.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: There's another scene too, where I was just like, okay,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: a little girl, and in the terms of like, but
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: not actually okay, little girl, because it's like, not her,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: it's the writing. He's like, have you ever seen a
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: ring this big? Or have you ever seen a reena
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: size before? And I was like a child says to
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: a grown man working for a wealthy people. Of course
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: he's seen ring this size like, which again is like
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: another example of her like being kind of like naive
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: in her world, kind of small. But it also just
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: felt like are you kidding? Like, are you kidding me? I.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: The thing of it is is that, like.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I someone on TikTok did say, like, there should be
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: intimacy coordinators on set because if you're doing stunts, there's
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: always a stunt coordinator, correct, yeah, yeah, And if they
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: didn't have a stunt coordinator for those violent scenes, I'm
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: also upset about that, yeah, because like what are we
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: doing to make sure that like whatever is going on
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: when fists are flying or whatever is fine? Like what
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: are And honestly, like, I'm not saying that Sean Baker
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: should write me a report of all of the ways
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that he made people feel safe on his movie, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: maybe he should. He should, because I will just go
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: on for the rest of my life being like he didn't. Okay,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: that's my assumption, that's my bias, that's true, Like I'll
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: just be like he just didn't. So if he would
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: like to prove to me otherwise I'll listen. But from
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: today until probably the day I die, until he gives
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: me that report, my bias will be He didn't think
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it just all kind of
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: comes back to what we started with. Like for me,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: it's like it's even I think, even if I hadn't
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: known that the movie was written and directed and edited
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: by a man, it still gives that feel.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Did I tell you about my sister's comments about nos Faratu? No, So,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Nosparactu was a movie that I enjoyed and I thought
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: it was beautiful and gothic and gorgeous. And you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I love that Nicholas Holt when he's a little fucking weirdo. Yeah,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: he's such a cutie, a little fucking weirdo.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: So I loved it and I didn't even care that
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: it was over two hours. My sister was like, you
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: can tell that that movie was a fucking movie made
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: by film bros for other fucking film bros to jack
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: each other off about about the greatness of film. And
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: she goes, and here's how you know. In one fucking scene,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: it's like, so in Nosferatu, they used the rats to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: bring the plague and like nos Faratu for some reason
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: has control of the rats. I don't know what the
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: vampire lore of that, but he can control the rats.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: So nos Faratu basically.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Threatens Lily Rose up where it's like, oh, I'll get you,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and I'll kill everyone you know every night until I
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: get you. So the first person to go is her friend,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: who is played by Emma Is it Corbin or Corbett?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: They played Princess Corbett.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Played Princess di in h the Crown, So Emma Corbyn.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I try not to use Emma's pronouns because I think
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: they've changed, but I'm always I'm not always up today
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: on how they've changed. Yeah, yeah, I always just um,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: so I will be using Emma. So Emma is getting
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: eaten alive by rats with a titty out, like a
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: full ass nipple titty out, like a floppin' titty out
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: for them rats. And my sister went, in what way,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: shape or form did that elevate the scene that she's
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: dying be a rat with a titty out? A man
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: made that choice, just like please make sure we work
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: in one more titty. A man made that choice, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: then people are gonna call it artistic because it's a
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: film bro movie made for film bros.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that, Like I feel like that.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like sorry I was there was a delay
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: because I had I was on you because my dog.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I apologize, but I.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Feel like I I agree with your sister.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I also agree with my sister, and I'm kind of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: mad that I didn't catch it. Yeah, because like the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: whole thing is she's been thrown from bed. The character
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: uses she her pronouns, and that's why I've started using pronounces.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: The character has been thrown from bed and they're in
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: this like Victorian ninety, so the nightie is being torn
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: by rat.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: So I didn't even.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Notice sat a titty was out right, I probably like
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Noticeta titty was out, but I.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Like why is her? Why? Why also want to see
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: tits exactly? It was just one more way to work
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: a tit in. I mean, sometimes I want to see
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: tits too, but also like not if it's not relevant
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: to the story.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: What right?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Like in White Lotus when Rick and Chelsea have sex
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: and she's like on top of him and he pulls
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: her like strapped down to like kiss her chest.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: When Carrie Kon drunkenly got her titties out because the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Russian dudes were getting their dicks out. I was like,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: that makes sense, right, it's appropriate.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Like it just there's a time in a place where
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: all you just to just do, right, didn't I text
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: you is like I've been to many a party where
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: naked dudes are jumping in pools. Yeah, like it's a thing.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Any opportunity to get a dick out and flying in
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the glory, yes, so like but like.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: For I guess is that where it's like, oh, gratuitous sex.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: So I think that is what gen Z is talking
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: about when they say that they're second through to gratuitous
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: sex and movies and TV. Yeah, because to me, I
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: understand why Sean Baker would like sit across the table
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: for me and we're like doing the Hotween's Challenge or whatever,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and he's like, no, they were all meaningful, And I'd
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: be like, tell me how it showed how their relationship
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: was progressing. I never bought into their relationships. So you
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: did a bad job.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like and and gosh, like there's their sex was
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: so perfunctory.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, which I guess is also purposeful, Like he'd
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: be bad at sex because he's a privileged white boy
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: who's also twenty one.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like twenty year olds don't know how to have sex.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: No, And then like she teaches him how to do
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: it in a nicer way, and then he goes right
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: back to jack Rabbit in the next one, and I
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: was like, why did we have to have an extra one? Then?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like is that because you want us to show
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: that he's not taking her seriously? And like and especially
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: because later on when he's at the club, when he's
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: gone missing, and like one of the girls is like, oh,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Vannie is here, and she's like what And they go
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: to the club and then that chick that she doesn't
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: get along with, he's like, I'm gonna give him the
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: best ride of his life. And then he's basically saying
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: all the same things he said to Honora to this girl.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I was so thirsty for their beef story.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Like I and like, here's the thing too, Like we
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: watch a lot of TV, we watch a lot of movies.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I've started reading screenplays. You and I have read some
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: of the same screenplays. I can build a world in
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: my head and I can like fill in blinks, like
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I understand that those girls have beef and it has
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: something to do with that girl being insecure about her men.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But I am telling you that I was so thirsty
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: for like the depth of that beef, Like how far
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: does that beef go? How does it function at work?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: How often is that guy going to Annie for dances?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Like I was like, and hustlers would have given that
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: to me, right, And there was so much too about
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: like like because this guy doesn't know how to write
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: female beef. That's why. Probably because like I really do
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: think that that's the one thing I'll give him was
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: giving Vanya the dialogue back that he was saying, like
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: saying to her, what he was saying to Noura was like, Okay,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: thank you for that, but you're not wrong, You're not wrong.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: It would have been nice to have gotten a little
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: bit more there as well.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, in him feeding the dialogue to the
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: girl that Honora has beef with, and it's the same
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: stuff that he was saying to Annie night one or whatever,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: that's not Sean Baker understanding what women go through. That's
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Sean Baker understanding how men behave.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Right right right right right? Yeah? Yeah for sure? Yeah,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: because then too, yeah, yeah, yeah, because of course he
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: ends up back at the strip club. Of course he's
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: gonna end up back there, like, oh that failed, let
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: me go get another one.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Well, at some point when I'm reading the actual script,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I'm irritated at her. I'm like, why you think this
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: boy in love with you? Why aren't you asking these
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: men for more money? Why aren't you running away?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I really needed her to ask for more money, right,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, why girl, I go or just cut
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: your loss?
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And then at the point I was like, these are
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the weakest goons I've ever seen, because I'm pretty sure
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: this girl would just.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Be in the river. Well, and then the point when
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: they're like when that guy's like why is she ted up?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: And they're like because she's crazy, And you're like, that's
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: not actually an answer. It's not an answer, like because
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: she's good, like and then like pointing to their scratches
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and their scars or their you know, wounds and stuff,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and like looking around the room and they're like, see
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: you crazy, and you're like, no, but she's making a
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: valid point about how you like assaulted her, and like
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: she's defending herself, like like that's valid. Don't call her crazy.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Because you attacked her, and yeah.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: It's just like Also, another missed opportunity was the manager
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: who told Annie and the sister telling Annie like he's
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: gonna be done with you in a week. And I
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: was like, if we don't circle back to these two
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: women having like their guards up about this entire situation,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: knowing it's not going to work out for her, I go,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: missed opportunity. So Annie's world wasn't.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Fleshed out at all, right, right, I.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Don't believe that the girl that I watched in the
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: movie would have no friends and or really deep connections
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: with one another. Now, when I watched The Substance and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Demi Moore shot herself up with that doo, Annie and
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I looked at one another. And when she doesn't have
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: one friend, that's sad.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: She doesn't have one friend to just shoot herself up
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: in the spy or ask her to reconsider it. I go,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I'd call you and I'd be like, you're gonna have
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: to put this stuff in my spine and then you're
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: gonna have to stitch up my back after a new
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: one crawls out of me.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: You're just gonna have to do that. And like, so
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I understood that Demi Moore didn't have friends, like that's
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: a huge part of her character. But you can't tell
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: me that Honora doesn't have relationships with other women.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Especially because that one friend she takes with her to
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: the uh New Year's Eve party. There's that. So yeah,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: there really isn't any building out of that either, which, yeah,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I can see how that's frustrating. She doesn't these characters
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: don't really come up except for when she's kind of
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: exiting their lives.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Also, like again, if this was just like a like
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: insane hijinks, like oh my gosh, in twenty four hours,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: all these Russian guys yelled and then I was ten
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars richer. Again, I could have enjoyed that movie.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I would have loved my free popcorn and my children slushy.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I would have loved it. But you, the Academy, made
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: me believe that. And it's the same thing that I
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: have with The Bear. And I know that you watch
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: the Bear and you get it, and I just don't
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: get it. I do not get the Bear. And every
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: time it wins Best Comedy, I'm always like, not funny once.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: It has never been funny once. I don't think Jeremy
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: is it Jeremy White, and that I don't think Jeremy
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Ellen White has ever laughed not funny once.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: So I actually will argue that season three should have
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: been drama because season one had to me a lot
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: of like dramaedy to it. But that's not why we're here.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: That's not why we're here.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: And as someone who who thinks that she's going to
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: sit down and write a comedy and then has to
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: text her friends, oh my gosh, I think it's a
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: drama edy because I'm dramatic.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I hope I.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Get trophies too, but I hope that people at least
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: laughtering my show.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: So like I want to Okay, So here's what I
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: want to say. You know, we, Jess, are coming off
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: the high of season three, White Lotus. We've had conversations
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: with you, me and our group chat about how like
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Mike White's done such a great job. It's just like
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: having this like here's extreme wealth confronted. We're confronting this
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: privilege in a way that is like holy shit, it
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: is a thing to be made fun of. It is ridiculous.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be the whatever whatever whatever, all the things
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: part of me feels like because you kept saying earlier
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: too that like these there are people out there who
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: are like, oh, she's saying fuck you to the oligarchs,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: and we're saying fuck you to wealth and all these things.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: It's almost as if somebody was trying to be like
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Mike White and couldn't land the plane. Oh no, Mike,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: because when I think about that scene in the airplane
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in the private jet and she's like what because you know,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: she understands Russian, but she doesn't speak it. Well, it's
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: a whole thing for the movie, and they're like talking
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: about her and she's getting offended and more and more offended,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: and then she finally is just like, you know what,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: you're a fucking little bitch. You're all sick. And then
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: like Egors, like I do think at the minimum she's
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: owed an apology, and the mom's like, my son does
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: not apologize to anybody. Like if that happened in White Lotus,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: it would have been way. It would have been executed
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: better because the whole show is showing us the ridiculousness
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: of these extreme wealthy people. There is layers, there is nuance.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: This is what we end up kind of hating about them,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: you know, and the whole movie of Honora, we are
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: not getting newy nuance or layers about like this arms
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: dealer or like you know, the son who's like, I
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: don't want to join the family business, but I want
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: the family money.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Like they google his father and then tell us he's
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: an arms dealer, and then that is the only thing
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that we know about how that man makes money. Right,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: they don't even do They don't even like give us
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit of context as to why all these
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: men be scared like fiddy.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And then I'm also like because people are also like.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: What you don't understand is that there's a hierarchy and Anora,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: because she's a sex worker, is at the bottom, and
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the goons even feel like they're above her because at
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: least they're not a sex worker.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: And I was like, got that, Okay, that's not rivity,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Like I got that, And it felt dated, like because
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: even Jason Alexander and Pretty Woman still felt like he
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: had power over Julia Roberts and exerted it in a
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: way that actually felt like a natural progression for the
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: fucking movie.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, they were all partying with her two days ago,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Like I don't like they knew this this trick, like
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: he would just get a lady and pay her for
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: a week, and then she'd show up at parties and
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: then they'd be like, Oh, that's his lady for the week, right,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Like and I get like the other goons were like
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: older or whatever, but like this whole lay yeah, and
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's really showing how women just aren't
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: taken seriously in our society. And I was like, did
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: you need that movie and two hours of it to
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: tell you that? Because baby, fifty minutes, babe, I got news.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe if you could cut it off, Mike White could
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: tell a better story in forty five minutes.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I want the uncut I want the unedited season
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: three of White Lotus because that man said out loud
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: that he could have made every episode ninety minutes, and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I guess HBO told him that no one would watch
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: it for ninety minutes every week, and I was like,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I would have I would have okay, like I would have,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: uh for Parker Posy alone, Like oh, because because you
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: manage Piper or Parker Posy being like Lachlan, you don't
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: have to apologize. And it's because she's already not apologized
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: to let's sleep them right right, tax saying.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Saxon, no, I know it's better wash out that blunder
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: who does that? That was so nasty, so nasty, But
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: that's but that is part of rivalry, that's part of
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: the privilege. He's trying to exert himself because his brother
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: spent five fucking episodes telling this child that he's gonna
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: guide him, he's gonna help him, he needs to get laid.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I'm here to make you like me. But something happens
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and the brother's like, oh fuck, this didn't go the
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: way I wanted it to, bails on his brother. Sister
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: picks up the ball unintentionally, and that fucking fails. And
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: then this little inny bitty child who's been infantilized his
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: entire life makes a terrible decision that is so like,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: so much more compelling in the white lotus than it
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: is in Anora.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying like, and I guess maybe it's
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: because I'm in the year of the hater. I don't
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: like it when white men try to tell my story.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I just don't like it. Like it just and reasonable
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: people who don't have my bias. We're like, well, of course,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: if you have a movie that's directed and written by
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: a man, the male gaze will be naturally in it.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: But you can probably see past it, will you think?
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: But I can't.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's my argument against that, or here's my contribution
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: to this dialogue about it. I read a sky full
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: of elephants. Okay. It is a three narrator story, primarily
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: a father and a daughter, and then there's a third
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: narrator who's also a woman. The story is written by
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: a man. He does such a fantastic job creating a
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: twenty year old girl with depth, with layers. I was floored, Like,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: for a hot minute, I forgot a man, a fully
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: grown ass man wrote a twenty year old woman. And
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: maybe that's also part of why I'm so salty, because
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: it can be done. This author, this author came to
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: this story clearly with the intention of wanting to do
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: it right, serve and honor the themes that he was
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: trying to convey. And I think he fucking crushed it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: And everyone I know who read the book also thinks
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: he fucking crushed it. So it could be done.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when I went and saw Barbarian and I was like,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: this is the female experience. We have to be worried
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: about monsters at all time. But it wasn't in a
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: way that like was like preaching or I mean, honestly,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: some people didn't get it. Some people didn't get that
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: every man in the movie, whether or not they actually
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: hurt someone in Barbarian was a different type of bond
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: that I, as a woman, have to watch out for.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: That's how subtle it was. That's how much I was
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: picked clude into the female experience in Barbarian. I had
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: to believe that that nuance in subtlety was directed and
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: written by women. I was like, all women, team, let's
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: fucking go. And then I get home, I look it
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: up men. I was like, who let them? But they
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: did it again. It's my favorite movie. It's my favorite
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: horror movie. I could talk about Barbarian for years.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Get this Girl on Brett Goldstein's the podcast is so
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: can he and like my whole And that's the other
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: thing too, Like we just read Kindred in my book
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: club and I tried to get through the screen adaptation
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: and I was like, no, this ain't it because you
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: removed the female gaze and that's the problem is you're
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: not doing the female gaze, you are not honoring the
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: female exp but people, and that's part of the patriarchy.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: I'm deciding right now live on show.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, everyone stop. The patriarchy's been present the
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: time whole time, because it's like this idea that like,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: oh I can do It's like that, Sorry, Natalie, I'm
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: such an Indian today. It's like the whole promise of
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: like that whiteness, that male whiteness, which just like I
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: can do it, anybody can do it, like dub of
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: course I can do it. And then like everyone's like,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: oh my god, it's so good, and you're just like
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: that was fucking mad. Bro. Bro, it's Saxon thinking he
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: can sleep with every woman in Thailand. It's Saxon he
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: can sleep with every woman in Yes, Okay, I'm a
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Ted Lasso hater, but I'm a Brett Goldstein lover till
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I die.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: And here's why, because he's fucking amazing.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: I found out that Brett Goldstein also believes what I
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: believe in Greece too, which is that the women or
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: more flushed out and have more agency in Greece too,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: which is lauded as the cult classic goofy movie that
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: no one actually likes except for Napling and Brett. Yes,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: do you guys need to start a club? Then the
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: original Grease where it's like, oh, but like Rizzel spoke
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: cigarettes and is willing to have an abortion, and like
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Sandy puts on leather, and it's like, nah, you gotta
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: watch Greece too. You have to watch Michelle Pfeiffer be like,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I want a cool writer, and I will accept nothing less.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: And I will accept nothing less. Gotta watch Paulette.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Tell Johnny exactly where he can put it if he's
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: gonna keep playing games with her. Grease too, Breckelstein, this
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: is your invite. You come on my show.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: You watch Greece too. We talk about Greece too.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: The amount of detail I could go into Barbarian I
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: can also go into for Greece too.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: You guys will talk about both because he also loves Barbarian. Oh.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I know this because I listened to his podcast.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: We should be friends, We should be friends. I did
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: stop the timer at the seven minute mark. Do you
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: have anything else that you would like to bring up
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: about this movie?
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Okay? The last thing I want to say is that
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: there is no excuse for men to not tell female stories. Well,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: we have solid examples, all like littered, but yet there's
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: still this choice to have this attitude of.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Like I got this, No you don't fuck off, No
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: you don't fuck off. Get your grubby hands off my story,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: your goddamn I reserve the right might know.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Here we go, get my goddamn story out your mouth,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: out your mouth.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I reserve the right to be pissed off every title
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: white man writes women badly.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: I deserve.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I reserve the right to take it personally. I reserve
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: the right to be like this is my vendetta, and
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: I get to scream at you about it, because you're right.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Every man has a woman in his life. Every man
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: has seen women. Every man has had the same Internet
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: as you. And I lived through the Me Too move,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: it is currently living through the rapture of our rights.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: And there and there are men who choose to do
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: the work and give us justice and honor us. And
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: then there are men who will say, well, I have
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: a daughter, so I should probably get better.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, so there's no reason. And again, our
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: entire white Lotus episode will be how white people like
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: to go to other countries that have a different type
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: of culture than white people culture, and instead of just
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: being like this is beautiful, we'll be like, where are
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: my chicken nuggets? I thought that you were going to
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: adapt to me? Why would I adapt.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: To you.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: That? It's very ill. Gosh, it's such an America.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: That's very American, it's very white America. Yeah, but it's
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: the same thing with men, like, oh, please be an
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: active member of my story, but you better be a
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: participant and not a voyeur.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: Right right, exactly now. Now I'm inspired to make a
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: list of stories that were written that well written women,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: written by men.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do it, I'll put it on the internet. All right, Well,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: let's move into our closing out ceremony. Julia, if we
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: needed to take away one lesson from Anora and what
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: watching Anora, reading Anora, and discussing Anora was like, what
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: should our lesson be for the future?
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Our lesson for the future is question everything written by men.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Think deeply on it. In fact, think deeply on it.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Do not just do not accept it just because a
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: group of people who can vote said this was great,
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Because guess what a group of people voted and said
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: this is going to be great, and look at us now,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: and look at us now, and look at us now.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: The great Taylor Tomlin said once, sometimes I wonder.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: If a movie was good or if I just really
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: liked the popcorn, if I was just really happy to
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: have popcorn. And I had never felt so seen because
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of times where I'm finishing my popcorn
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: during credits and I'm texting my friends and I was like,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: I just saw the best movie. It's gonna change media
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: as we know it, and they're like, neadly, you're at
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Shrek or.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: And I was like, it's great. You have really good themes.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: So there's sad.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: You're like Nady, you are at Mowana thirty three, Just
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: finish your popcorn and please leave.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: But there's literally in what Taylor Tomlinson has said.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: Truly, I felt like there were more flushed out female
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: characters that I could relate to in Bodies, Bodies, Bodies,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: which was supposed to just be my stupid summer movie.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: It was my stupid summer flame and it ended up
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: being Lord of the Flies, and I was like, I
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I actually love Lord of Flies, my favorite story.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I guess that's it. It's like, think deeper about it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: if it doesn't feel right to you. Research why these
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: are just universal things, not just relevant to entertainment.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Get past how happy you were that you had a popcorn. Yeah,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see Death of a Unicorn. I believe
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: that my sister only wants to see it because Paul
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Rud's cute, and that's her prerogative. I am going to
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: see it because honestly, I can't tell what the fuck
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: is about.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: No the til the marketing, the advertising for it. I'm
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: just like, I'm sad, but I don't know why. I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: just don't know why.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: But unicorns have a lot of lord that's speeked in
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: femininity and honoring women. There's a lot of purity that's
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: attached to unicorn lore and the purity myth and the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: virginity shit. And I would like to see if A
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: twenty four used any of that to be like, did
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you honor unicorns?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: I would be surprised if they didn't. But anyway, honestly,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: they have a pretty solid team. I will say that
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I took Prices or Doth leaked twice, and all she
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: knew about that movie was Chandy Tata was in it,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: and then they flashed a big like in this movie,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: we will there will be violence on women, and there
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: will be sexual violence and all of it. And she
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: looked at me after the content warning and she's like,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't look up this movie at all when I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: told you i'd see it, and pardon me. Thinks that
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: that's what's happening with Death of a Unicorn. But we
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: shall find out, shall see, We shall see.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Julia, what should we manifest for moviegoers everywhere, women everywhere,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: the collective energy. I guess maybe Sean Baker, who I'm.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Mad at, I would like to manifest feminine rage. Fuck
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: on it. We shall remain unhinged, we will be menaces.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: We will take free money.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Every time a man writes a bad woman and compensation.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I'm old I might start suing for emotional mental damages.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Fine, I'm sure their venmos aren't hard to find. Just
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: send a request. What was the last thing I said?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: And I was like, if this doesn't have it, I'm
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: suey for emotional mountil damages. And it was something so stupid,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: something and I was like, I will sue HBO from
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: until emotional damages.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I can't, I know, I texted it to Chris de Rosa,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: so I'll be looking that up later, but yeah, I
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: am very serious that five and forever more is the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: year and the era of the hater until they start
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: loving us.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Honestly, how many times last week today text you I
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: woke up a hater today, which is you've known me
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: long enough to know that's not normal. You're not a hater.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I am my mean girl, My early o's mean girl
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: has just been waiting.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Much like.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just sitting in the wings, much like Piper's in
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: her hope for white lotus, like my inner mean girl,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: my two thousand's like, ew, whatever, loser, cool story, bro,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: you want a dollar.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It's food for a year. That's so gross.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: My intermean girl has just like been sitting in my
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: gut being like, is it a hard time yet? And
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like no, The Internet keeps saying that we have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: to be nice no matter what.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Tell me when to put me in coach, Tell me
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: when to put me in a coach.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: And then she threw my gut saw and heard Kendrick,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: and she went, I think it's time, and I went, baby,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: you right. Kendrick said it's fine, and Samuel L. Jackson
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: signed off on it, So we good, yes, good, yes,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: So Julia, I don't do my own manifestations and lessons anymore.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: If the guests is good enough, and I don't have
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: anything more to say, so congratulations, I'm done.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Go to you.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. I can't wait
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: until another movie that's supposed to represent women does a
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: bad job and you and I have to jump on a.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Bike and talk about it. Love it, Love it here,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Love it here.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Please let all the listeners know what you're currently doing
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: and how they can support you.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Please find me on the internet on Instagram. I'm at
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: the Julia Washington. My business is at Pros and Glow.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: I make literary themed candles and host literary themed events.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Please buy my shit. Support female owned business by buying
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: my ship.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you forgot to add the other qualifier that makes
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: the white people feel guilty. Make the white women feel guilty.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I am a black single mother, like putting a child
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: through college without any support from that child's father. If
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I get to be.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: If I get to reserve my anger for men who
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: write women badly all the time, Julia gets to make
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: white women feel guilty. And I've decided that that's the rule,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: And if you want to find me on it, that's fine.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: But I I and I think TikTok decided that that
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: was a rule.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Now that we, the women of color, get to make
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: white women feel guilty, We've earned that.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: It's true. It's true. I'm just trying to put this
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: baby through college, give him, give him health insurance. He
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: ain't get nothing else. I'm the only parent.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Y'all earn that for me. All you white women who
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: didn't listen to me, y'all earned it for me. So
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: I'm here too, feeling guilty.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, we told y'all, We told y'all there'd be a depression.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, God, I think we're heading towards the
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: race slashion.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I think it was the patriarchy the entire time.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think Wait, hold on, has the patriarchy
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: been in the.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Room with us the entire time? Listen, I'm blaming it
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: on the fact that my period is probably starting at
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: any moment.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Any moment, she's currently bleeding. Did you know that Challengers
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: was written by a dude and you know who was
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: a fully fleshed out woman in Challengers andda like this
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: There are examples. There's no excuse for men to not
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: write strong, fleshed out female characters.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: You know what, I'm manifestation and who I'm giving permission
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: to write strong female characters. Tom Holland, Yes, because he
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: did the Rihanna Umbrella.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Uh. He's such a bit boyfriend. I fucking love it.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: So Tom Holland, you have my personal permission. You can
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: come on. We can work it out. We'll talk.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: You make that movie.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: You and I we sit, Yeah, we tell we tell
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: everyone that you did it right, because I know you would.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: He has my permission. Him and Brett Goldstein, they have
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: my permission. And honestly, I believe that I should be
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the only person who determines who gets to do.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: What I mean. I mean, we've got evidence until.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: You see, until you all start acting right. I get
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: to just choose. I get to choose whether or not
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: you're smart enough to watch White Lotus. I get to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: choose everything. Okay, I'm Nablin Katona. You can find me
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: at amy K one two four, TikTok and Instagram. You
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: can find the show at men I Tilery pod on Instagram.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: To all the men I've tolerated before on YouTube and Patreon,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: And remember, tolerators, you don't have to smile through anything
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: you're tolerating, including a movie getting in a trophy and
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: you being fucking confused why.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Smiles are for joy?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Undy