Latest / Libido Lounge / How a Time Limit on the Fight Saves Your Marriage with Kameran Alareqi (Part 1)

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How a Time Limit on the Fight Saves Your Marriage with Kameran Alareqi (Part 1) · Libido Lounge

• 0:00
  The average American couple spends four minutes alone together per day.
• 0:05
  But scientists and researchers say that it takes a minimum of ninety minutes per week in
• 0:10
  order to have a a strength that like, a strong connected marriage.
• 0:14
  Four times seven is not 90.
• 0:16
  So Yeah.
• 0:17
  This is this is where we're at.
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  If you don't give that time to your partner, that's when they feel like their skin is being
• 0:22
  ripped off their body.
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  It it comes down to a system that I have basically coined called playing baseball.
• 0:30
  Most marriages that have a communication problem quote unquote, don't actually have a
• 0:35
  communication problem.
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  They have an emotional safety problem.
• 0:38
  I like to say that also marriages have a half life.
• 0:40
  You could fight every single day of your marriage and still be happy if you repair well.
• 0:48
  Welcome to another episode of the libido lounge.
• 0:51
  I'm your host doctor Diane Mueller and I have a really fun guest today, Cameron Alaricke who is
• 0:59
  a marriage coach, a Gottman certified marriage coach, and she's host of the Married and
• 1:05
  Connected podcast.
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  I'm really excited about this guest because she works with a lot of what we work with on the
• 1:11
  show, which is monogamous couples really helping them to strengthen their marriage.
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  One of the first things we're gonna talk about is this concept of divorce proofing and how we
• 1:21
  can and if we can divorce proof our marriage.
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  So we're gonna talk about that, communication.
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  We're gonna talk about your nervous system and what's happening to your body during a fight
• 1:30
  and how to work with your your body to actually have better results when you have conflict and
• 1:36
  so much more.
• 1:37
  So really exciting stuff.
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  Welcome to the show today, Cameron.
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  Thanks.
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  I'm really excited to be here.
• 1:42
  Same same.
• 1:43
  And let's jump right into it.
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  So I wanna talk about divorce proofing because you talk in your work about divorce proofing
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  marriage, which sounds like, you know, it sounds like a really bold promise.
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  So what is this?
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  Can you, like, walk us through, like, what this actually means, and is it really possible to
• 2:00
  actually divorce proof marriage?
• 2:02
  Yes.
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  It is 100% possible.
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  I have done it myself.
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  I have helped hundreds of couples do this.
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  And the way that this works is, excuse me, going down it it comes down to a system that I
• 2:15
  have basically coined called playing baseball.
• 2:18
  Playing baseball in your marriage, this is how this works.
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  So I've actually been divorced twice and then reconciled with my second husband.
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  And so the way that this works is and this is this is if you run the bases correctly, this
• 2:31
  will work.
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  If you try to go from, like, batting to second base, that's where you get a little bit messed
• 2:39
  up, it's in the weeds, and it doesn't work out right.
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  So the way that this works is anytime your partner comes to you and they're talking to
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  you, they're batting.
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  K?
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  Or you are batting.
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  Excuse me.
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  They're pitching.
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  You are batting.
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  And this could be anything from, hey.
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  I need help.
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  Hey, I'm really struggling with life.
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  Hey, I don't think our marriage is where I want it to be.
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  I don't think our sex life is where we want it to be.
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  To, hey, I saw a bird today.
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  K?
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  Now here's the thing.
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  These are called emotional bids.
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  They are pitching.
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  Pitching.
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  You are batting.
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  If they tell you, hey, I saw a bird today, and your response is, okay, like you don't care,
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  then basically that that bat that you just had just falls flat.
• 3:20
  Falls right in front of your feet.
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  Okay?
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  It's not gonna go anywhere.
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  Then if you if you say something snarky, like, who cares?
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  Or, okay, what's for dinner?
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  Something like that, guess what?
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  You still strike out.
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  You go back to the the dugout.
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  Here's where people miss this.
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  If you're not turning towards your partner at least 80% of the time, you're going back to the
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  dugout.
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  And the problem is, and this is where we start to get into the weeds and, like, start to grow
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  apart, is that when you are batting and you're striking out all the time and going back to the
• 3:49
  dugout, it's more and more and more time in between times that you get to bat, because now
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  your partner doesn't feel safe with you.
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  They don't feel safe to come talk to you about anything.
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  K.
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  So let's say you master it though, then you get to run to first base.
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  If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, first first base is safety.
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  Physical, financial, emotional, spiritual, sexual, all the safety.
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  K?
• 4:13
  Can your partner come to you about anything and you're going to respond to them?
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  You're going to provide safety.
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  Do they have access to the bank accounts?
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  Do they know what's coming in?
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  You're not keeping secrets.
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  You're not you know, there's no dishonesty, that kind of thing.
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  Let's say you master that.
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  Then you get to run to second base.
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  That's connection.
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  This is where people all often, again, strike out, go back to the the dugout.
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  Men and women connect differently.
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  A lot of times, men are gonna connect through shared activities.
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  Women are going to connect through open ended conversation.
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  All those questions that you asked when you were dating, yeah, you still have to ask those
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  because your partner's not the same person that they were a year ago, five years ago, etcetera.
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  Third base is emotional intimacy.
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  Do you know your partner and know them well?
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  Do you have a spec sheet in your phone of ring size, gifts they want, their favorites, their
• 5:03
  dislikes, all of that kind of stuff?
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  Do they know that no matter what happens, that you're gonna have their back?
• 5:09
  Do they respect you enough, and do you respect them enough to consider each other no matter
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  what the the case may be?
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  That kind of thing.
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  Then if you have all three of those, that's where your expertise comes in.
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  That's when we have the mind blowing sex that we can have that we really want and enjoy
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  because we're connecting through it, and it's not just sex where you wake up the next morning
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  and be like, wait.
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  I I was looking for something in that, and I I didn't get it.
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  So divorce proving your marriage comes down to basically running those those.
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  Yeah.
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  I couldn't agree more.
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  And and even, like, what I talk about in my work, libido and sex, I really talk about
• 5:47
  everything you're talking about because I think we isolate oftentimes libido to just be like
• 5:51
  the sex part.
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  But what I see is that it and I I know you do too.
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  It's it's everything that's leading up to that.
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  So all of those bases are actually, you know, in it.
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  And my question for you is, like because I know people are hearing things such as, okay.
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  Well, we're gonna respond positively to this bid.
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  Right?
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  We're responding positively to this pitch.
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  So we're turning towards our partner, as you said, in those things, and you said 80%.
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  So how if people are going to take a step back and say, like, judge their success with this to
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  say, am I doing this well?
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  Am I actually turning towards my partner enough times to outweigh the times where I mess up and
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  say, don't respond positively to their bids?
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  Like, are you are you recommending people, like, take a step back and, like, analyze this
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  somehow?
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  Like, how do I know I'm turning towards my partner 80%?
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  How do people begin to, I guess, I like, kind of workshop their own relationship to say, is
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  this an area where I'm doing well, or is this an area where I need to put more effort and
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  energy?
• 6:50
  Sure.
• 6:50
  Yeah.
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  I'm a really big fan of objective reflection all the time.
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  All the time.
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  So the way that this is gonna work is when you are at the end of every day, start asking
• 7:00
  yourself how or if you're just starting this reflection process, ask yourself, does my
• 7:05
  partner ever tell me that I don't listen?
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  Do they say, you never listen to me, or something like that?
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  If that's a yes, you're not turning towards their bids enough.
• 7:14
  Do they tell you that you love your phone more than you love them?
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  If that's the case, you're not present enough.
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  So most likely, you're missing things that they're saying.
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  Do they tell you so think about the things that they tell you.
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  They see, things like, you're always on your phone.
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  You never listen.
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  Hey.
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  Did you hear what I was saying?
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  Hey.
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  Do you you know, things like that.
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  You can also look at if they say things like, you don't care.
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  You don't care what I'm saying to you or you don't care about me.
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  Those kinds of things.
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  If you plan a date or if you're not going on dates at all, that's another issue.
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  It And doesn't have to be like this extravagant thing.
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  But if they're saying things like, I need more from you.
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  I want more out of our out of our relationship.
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  I feel disconnected.
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  Things like that, there's there's a lack of turning towards at at some point.
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  So it sounds like kind of the the activity, right, then is at the end of the day, making
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  the intention to analyze the day and just take a set second, a few minutes to reflect on the
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  day and say, okay.
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  How did my partner respond when I said this?
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  How did I respond when they said that?
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  And you're just kinda taking account of any of those interactions.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And even if you're like if if you're sitting there and you're like, well, I I think I did.
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  Ask them.
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  Just ask your partner.
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  I mean, like, hey.
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  I was listening to this podcast today, and this is what this, you know, marriage coach said.
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  Do you feel like I turned towards you?
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  Or do you feel like the balls dropped?
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  Just ask.
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  But also be willing to hear their answer because it may not be the one you want.
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  So as you talk about these four bases, right, and as we're talking about, like, you know,
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  building, say, the divorce proofing relationship.
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  You find that there's any one thing more than others that and I I say this, of course, with
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  understanding, like, these are all important.
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  But you say there's, like, one thing more important than anything else to really help the
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  marriage thrive or if it's not done that would actually lead to the decimation of the
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  marriage?
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  I would say safety is the most important because a lot of times people couples will come
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  to me and they'll say, we have a communication problem.
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  We just don't communicate or we're just not compatible.
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  You're never gonna be compatible.
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  Like, compatibility is constantly changing.
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  So, I mean, there may be seasons where you need more of something, they need less of something.
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  Like, you're you're always changing.
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  So I don't really buy into the whole compatibility thing, but I really do think that
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  most marriages that have a communication problem, quote unquote, don't actually have a
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  communication problem.
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  They have an emotional safety problem where they can't they don't feel like they can talk
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  to their partner without having to walk on eggshells or they don't feel like they can talk
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  to their partner at all without being dismissed or minimized or invalidated or something like
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  that.
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  So what I'm wondering about in that is is when people say things to their partner or maybe to
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  their relationship coach such as, gosh, I'm just not that attracted to my partner anymore.
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  Do you think that sometimes when we feel as humans that we're not attracted to our partner
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  anymore, that we're actually feeling like all of a sudden that we're maybe not it's not all
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  of a sudden, but we're actually feeling consciously or subconsciously that we're not
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  feeling, like, safe and regulated around that person.
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  Could I'm not attracted anymore actually be I'm not regulated anymore?
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  Absolutely.
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  And it could also be I'm disconnected.
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  I'm so far disconnected that I have so much we call
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  it negative sentiment override where you have all you can think about is, oh, they didn't
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  take the trash out today.
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  Not, they must have forgotten.
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  Like, there's no benefit of the doubt being given.
• 10:50
  There's no connection at the end of the day.
• 10:52
  The average American couple spends four minutes alone together per day.
• 10:58
  But scientists and researchers say that it takes a minimum of ninety minutes per week in
• 11:03
  order to have a a strength that like a strong connected marriage.
• 11:07
  So I'm not I don't do math.
• 11:09
  I don't numbers and I are not friends, but four times seven is not 90.
• 11:14
  So Yeah.
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  This is this is where we're at.
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  So, yeah, absolutely.
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  That that attraction is a living, breathing thing that you have to really pour into.
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  And if you're not safe, you're not gonna be attracted to a person that you don't feel safe
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  with, that you can't talk to, that you don't wanna be around.
• 11:28
  So I feel like some listeners might be going back and thinking about times where maybe they
• 11:32
  had one night stands or just dated somebody for, you know, a very short time period and
• 11:37
  still had some sort of, you know, mind blowing sex, that sort of thing.
• 11:41
  So I wanna address that like, you know, at what point are we saying with safety that it's
• 11:47
  necessary when we have these times where people are having, you know, one night stands or these
• 11:51
  very short relationships that don't have that, but yet are able to have this really profoundly
• 11:57
  intimate experience.
• 11:58
  Can you talk about that that discrepancy a little bit?
• 12:00
  I just wanna take a quick break to say one of the number one things that leads to a lack or
• 12:06
  just a slowing of passion in the relationship is thinking that our partner's body and mind
• 12:13
  and spirit is going to be the same today as tomorrow.
• 12:17
  So one of the things that happens for so many bodies, especially for female bodies, is that
• 12:24
  with time, the pleasure needs change.
• 12:27
  And we get into those sexual scripts and those habits of doing the same thing over and over
• 12:33
  and over again, not always realizing that our pleasure body is wanting something else.
• 12:38
  This creates a lack of passion, a desire, a lack of orgasm, and it's one of the reasons why
• 12:45
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• 12:48
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• 12:57
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• 13:01
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• 13:12
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• 13:16
  Now let's get back to our episode.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:20
  So that's chemistry.
• 13:21
  For about the first two years of your relationship, you're running solely on
• 13:25
  chemistry and it's basically attracted to their their insecure attachment.
• 13:29
  So you there's a polarity there and it's like magnets.
• 13:33
  So you just are stuck together and that that's what that is.
• 13:37
  That's what you're running on.
• 13:39
  This is where so we have there's five cycles of a relationship, five stages.
• 13:43
  The honeymoon stage is that right there.
• 13:45
  Oh my gosh.
• 13:46
  They're amazing.
• 13:47
  And all of their quirks and all of their little weirdnesses, you know, all of their their
• 13:52
  things that they do, even like the way that they hold their spoon is absolutely adorable.
• 13:56
  And they are the most wonderful thing that ever, you know, landed on the face of the
• 14:00
  earth.
• 14:01
  And then you get married possibly or you get into a long term relationship and you enter the
• 14:06
  power struggle stage.
• 14:07
  And once you enter the power struggle stage, that's where chemistry starts to kinda settle
• 14:12
  down a little bit and you start really seeing this person for who they really are versus the
• 14:17
  fantasy and that, you know, the veil is a little is lifted.
• 14:21
  And that's when you start thinking, oh my god.
• 14:25
  If they hold their spoon like that one more time, I'm gonna choke them.
• 14:28
  So all of the quirks that they had before that were so cute, they're not cute anymore.
• 14:33
  And so now you're looking at this from a completely different lens.
• 14:35
  It's like the rose colored glasses have been taken off, and you're actually seeing reality.
• 14:39
  And that's where the power struggle stage starts and that's often where couples will
• 14:44
  either get help or they will figure it out on their own or they'll divorce is in that power
• 14:51
  struggle stage.
• 14:52
  Yeah.
• 14:52
  That's really helpful.
• 14:53
  And before we go on, I'm going ask you more about this power struggle stage and really how
• 14:59
  to work with this, how to fix this if there is a power struggle.
• 15:02
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• 15:13
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• 16:46
  So then back to my question.
• 16:47
  So when we're talking about this, you know, this emotional safety thing and, like, let's
• 16:52
  say we have this example, right, where somebody asked to take out the trash or they expected to
• 16:57
  take out the trash and then the partner didn't and they're feeling, you know, pissed.
• 17:01
  They're making up stories instead of what you're talking about around, oh, maybe they
• 17:05
  just forgot.
• 17:05
  Now it's making up stories they don't care, they're not interested in helping or whatever
• 17:10
  the story is.
• 17:11
  So when somebody decides they're going to really relearn how to feel safe in their
• 17:17
  relationship, how long?
• 17:19
  Like how long does this typically take?
• 17:20
  Because if this has been going on for years, is this something that takes years to get out of?
• 17:25
  No.
• 17:25
  It's not.
• 17:26
  And in fact, this is why I love what I do so much and the program that I've created because
• 17:31
  a lot of times, depending on like, if there's been infidelity or something like that,
• 17:36
  oftentimes, it will take me about one year to help a couple.
• 17:39
  But when you're relearning and you're just roommates or you've you just kinda you're just
• 17:45
  not as connected as you used to be or you're fighting a lot, you're you're arguing a lot,
• 17:49
  you're not really sure if you like each other.
• 17:51
  Six six to eight months max is all it takes me to help a couple like this.
• 17:56
  And it's an intense program, but this is why I love it so much is because it doesn't take
• 18:01
  forever.
• 18:02
  That's nobody wants to be like, okay.
• 18:04
  Let's sign up for the next four years when you've, you know, you've been struggling for
• 18:08
  the last ten.
• 18:09
  So, yeah.
• 18:11
  I like to say that also marriages have a half life.
• 18:13
  So if you realize one day, you're like, man, we've really been struggling for ten years.
• 18:19
  Like, yeah.
• 18:20
  And you've been married twenty.
• 18:21
  The last ten have been crap.
• 18:23
  Or if you're like, man, we've been married eight, and, you know, we're struggling.
• 18:28
  Yep.
• 18:28
  You've probably been struggling for the last four.
• 18:30
  So it takes an average of six six years for people just to get help, and it doesn't need to
• 18:35
  take that long.
• 18:35
  Like, if you're struggling I I I love this this idea that if you were gonna learn a different
• 18:41
  language, for example, like, I'm learning a different language.
• 18:44
  My husband's Arabic, so I'm learning Arabic.
• 18:47
  Okay?
• 18:49
  So it's really hard, but I wouldn't be able to do that on my own.
• 18:53
  So I have a tutor.
• 18:54
  I have someone that they can help me with the dialect.
• 18:56
  They can help me help me learn that because God knows that my husband does not have the
• 19:00
  patience.
• 19:01
  So for that, like, I'm getting help for that.
• 19:04
  I wouldn't just pick up a book and be like, okay.
• 19:07
  Well, you know, and start putting in American dialects to that.
• 19:11
  I'm gonna look like an idiot if I go over to The Middle East.
• 19:14
  Alright.
• 19:14
  It's the same thing with marriage.
• 19:16
  If you didn't have a great example growing up, your partner didn't have a great example
• 19:20
  growing up, how do you know you only know what you know.
• 19:22
  So how do you how do you expect to have a great marriage?
• 19:25
  How do you expect to have great sex?
• 19:27
  If you're like, man, this I've never seen this done.
• 19:30
  I you know, like, yeah, I've had, you know, a few partners, but didn't really learn anything
• 19:34
  from them.
• 19:35
  This is why you and I exist is to help people with with what they don't know.
• 19:40
  And that's really all that we need to look at it as.
• 19:42
  It doesn't have to be this big shameful thing.
• 19:44
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  I completely agree.
• 19:46
  And I want I'm gonna ask you in a moment about practical tools that people can have in the
• 19:50
  moment where it's like, oh my gosh.
• 19:51
  I'm really feeling triggered.
• 19:53
  Right?
• 19:53
  I'm my heart's pounding.
• 19:54
  I'm feeling pissed.
• 19:55
  I'm feeling sad.
• 19:56
  I'm feeling like whatever it is that reactive type of thing and what do we do.
• 20:00
  But before that, I wanna make sure that everybody knows that what we're talking about
• 20:04
  with you next week is about how to get all over that thing that so many people say they have,
• 20:10
  which is having the same old fight and how to really delineate and learn of, like, do I care
• 20:16
  about this because I'm just remembering all these things that I am triggered about from the
• 20:19
  past or is this actually a real problem that needs to be solved?
• 20:22
  And so how do we get out of the same old fight pattern?
• 20:25
  That is what's happening next week.
• 20:26
  So if you haven't subscribed yet, please do subscribe so you make sure you get the alert
• 20:32
  when we have Cameron back on.
• 20:34
  Now we're gonna let people know about some free resources of yours in a second as well.
• 20:38
  But before we do that, just if you can take a moment to just answer this for us, it's a good
• 20:42
  thing way to leave our our time together this week, which is in that moment when we're
• 20:48
  feeling maybe whether we're identifying it with as unsafe or just emotionally dysregulated,
• 20:56
  right, where we're not going to have a productive conversation.
• 20:59
  What kind of tools do you actually give people to do in that moment to help them start to
• 21:03
  reregulate so they can have a conversation that is more productive?
• 21:07
  Yeah.
• 21:08
  Love that question.
• 21:09
  So this is actually gonna come down to your your own attachment style, but a lot of people
• 21:13
  haven't had the experience, exposure, and education that I have in attachment styles.
• 21:18
  So here's here's what I'm gonna tell you to do.
• 21:20
  Okay?
• 21:20
  If you
• 21:21
  I will go over attachment styles one second, but I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna ask you about
• 21:24
  attachment styles next week as well.
• 21:26
  Yeah.
• 21:27
  So I just want everybody to, like, learn.
• 21:28
  We're gonna what you're talking about, we're gonna also go deeper into next week.
• 21:31
  Yeah.
• 21:32
  So this is just really quick.
• 21:33
  Okay?
• 21:34
  If you're typically the person that leaves the conversation and you're like,
• 21:37
  I'm out.
• 21:37
  I can't do this.
• 21:38
  I can't do this.
• 21:39
  Okay?
• 21:39
  I need you to actually sit in it for one more minute.
• 21:42
  And if you can't, I need you to give your partner a time limit.
• 21:46
  K?
• 21:47
  Hey.
• 21:47
  I'm feeling really dysregulated.
• 21:49
  I need to take two hours.
• 21:51
  I will come back in two hours.
• 21:53
  If you don't give that time to your partner, that's when they feel like their skin is being
• 21:58
  ripped off their body, and that's when they start chasing you.
• 22:01
  K?
• 22:01
  They need a time when you're coming back.
• 22:03
  If you're typically the person that chases, and you're like, no, we need to fix this right
• 22:07
  right now, know that your partner, when you do that, their skin feels like they're being
• 22:12
  ripped off their body.
• 22:13
  K?
• 22:14
  So you're the person that needs to say, I see you're getting in the weeds right now.
• 22:18
  I see you're really dysregulated.
• 22:20
  How about we come back to this when we're both a little bit more calm?
• 22:23
  So if you're the person that's the chaser, you're the person that needs to learn to self
• 22:27
  regulate.
• 22:28
  If you're the runner, you're the one that needs to co regulate.
• 22:32
  Okay?
• 22:32
  So come back and always always always repair.
• 22:36
  You could fight every single day of your marriage and still be happy if you repair well.
• 22:42
  I love that and I'm gonna ask you so much more about that next week.
• 22:45
  Before we leave today, please tell us a little bit about some of your resources.
• 22:49
  We're gonna have everything in the show notes for links, but I know you have a great blog.
• 22:54
  I know you have courses of free resources for people to get started with your work.
• 22:58
  Can you tell us a little bit about those?
• 22:59
  Yes.
• 23:00
  So I have a blog post email that goes out every Thursday where you can get it's a free marriage
• 23:07
  tip for the week that will help you.
• 23:09
  You can read it in seven minutes or less, and it goes straight to your inbox, or you can
• 23:13
  check it out on Substack at married.and.connected.
• 23:17
  And then I also have a free community where I have done I do monthly workshops for couples
• 23:23
  that are absolutely free.
• 23:24
  So you can find all the information in there, what workshops are coming up, all of those
• 23:28
  things inside that school, s k o o l community.
• 23:32
  You can also get free resources, oodles and gobs of free resources on connection questions
• 23:40
  that you asked when you were dating, but now it's a little bit awkward or, you know, date
• 23:44
  night bingo or connection bingo or bettering your sex life, things like that.
• 23:49
  You can get all of those in that community.
• 23:51
  Amazing.
• 23:51
  And we will have all those links in the show notes like I mentioned.
• 23:54
  Please tune in next week with Cameron and I going deep into how to get out of that same old
• 23:59
  fight, how to repair relationships, attachment theory, and what this means for you and your
• 24:04
  relationships and so much more.
• 24:06
  Thank you Cameron for being here with us and everybody we'll see you again next time.
• 24:13
  Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
• 24:15
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 24:17
  Please share this with your friends.
• 24:19
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.