Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Wearables integrated with AI to improve Health and Performance, with Thoryn Stephens

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Wearables integrated with AI to improve Health and Performance, with Thoryn Stephens · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: So a'n Stevens. Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Doctor Paul, great to see you.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: How are things And Matt, thanks for going very very
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: well here in Australia.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And I can see that well. I know that you're
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in Aspen, Colorado.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: You've got a rather nice background there, so I love
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: you being in Aspen, Colorado.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I was born here in Colorado, so born
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: in these mountains and then raised in northern California, a
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: little town south of San Francisco. So spent a lot
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: of time here just growing up. And then I just
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: moved back pre pandemic about twenty fifteen. In the pandemic
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: hit and I was still going back and forth with California,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and I basically said I would absolutely never go back
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to California.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So I moved back to.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Colorado full time and found myself here in the mountains.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And Jesus, a lot of active people around there, isn't.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: There Incredibly Yeah, it doesn't matter how active you are,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: there's always someone more active. Like, yeah, we're a little maniacal,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: but in good ways.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not very cold. I mean, you are a scientist,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: data visionary.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: You're also a keynote speaker, and you kind of play
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: in the space of human behavior biology and also the
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: intersection with AI and so just give people a bit
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: of a sense of your background and how you ended
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: up where you are right now.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Professor.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So education wise, I was I studied biotechnology and
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: then molecular biology. You were my skills when I was
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: in the lab. So I worked in small molecule drug
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: therapeutics in biotech for really the first third of my
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: career and it was an amazing time. We sequence the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: human genome and it's like, wait, what's next. You know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: the division back then was knowing the genome would help
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: unlock you know, really the future of meta but that
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't quite the case. You know, we didn't really take
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: into account. You know, you have the genem over here,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: you have the protium over here, but in between you
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: have you know, essentially the gene regulation. So epigenetics, epigenomics, transcriptome, metabolam,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: all those pieces. So it's been quite fun though over
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: these last number of years. My research then went into
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: data science, so really focusing on user measurement and optimization.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: That was in my twenties, and then further I began
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: doing trathlons and iron man distances, and it was through
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: those experiences I really began to optimize my data, my
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: biology using data basically, and you know that idea that
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: when you have wearable data, really any type of data,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: you know, ultimately you can start to synthesize and understand
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: how that can impact your body. And so it really
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: began using protocols at scale to optimize my biology for racing,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and that ultimately led me to my current area of research.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Ah okay, so your interest was in performance initially.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Performance consciousness, you know, kind of spanning a spectrum. But yeah, absolutely,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: without being too obsessive about it. You know, I think
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: there's people who get absolutely obsessive about, you know, the
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: measurement side. I guess I would say.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So Brian Johnson springing to mind, Yeah, I.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Mean he's he's he's over here, you know, relative to measurement.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I mean most humans are over here. You know, we're
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: probably over here is but certainly not all the way over.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So I think it's important to have a solid regimen
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and routine and what we call protocols, but also live
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: your life, you know as well.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: And in terms of measurement and and and measurement devices,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: what what sort of things do you think are useful
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: for people and what sort of what sort of measures
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: should they be looking at.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we spend a lot of time thinking about
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: longevity protocols, helped protocols, and we've analyzed tens of thousands
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: at this stage. And you know, we look at the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: dominant themes. So you have nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, you know,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: metabolic regulation of some kind connection you know as well.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Those usually like the six areas we really you know,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: think about routinely, and so generally starting with like sleep.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: You know, every person we know has an issue with
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: sleeping or you know, maybe their gut microbiome. So sleep
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: as an example. There's a number of wearables that I've
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: used over the years. My favorite is an Aura ring
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: because it's really the least invasive, the least amount of EMF.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: You can even turn the bluetooth off, and it's you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: very small essentially, and so that's one of my favorite
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: for sleep relative to accuracy. When I'm training and doing
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: iron Man's or you know, trail running, I usually wear
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a garment and then I also have a loop and
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a fit bit, and so we test all of these
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: wearables on the day to day so I think, you know,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: they're all generally good, some better than others. Apple Watch
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: is great for a normal human just you know, doing
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: the day to day. So it really just depends on
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: you know, what your applications are.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because recently, I so I've been I've
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: been wearing an Apple Watch for a number of years, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: then recently I was also worrying a garment because of
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: an intervention we're doing with the military guys over here
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: who all have Garman watches and and and the HRV
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: is is a little bit different on both of those devices, right,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: And I think this is what people don't understand is
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: that whilst they're all reasonably accurate, they do vary, right,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: And that my understanding is that Garman is probably a
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: bit more accurate when it comes to HRV because I
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: think they bought first Beat a number of years ago,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: and Apple uses a slightly different measurement technique. I think
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: most of them use our MSSD.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Right, So.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: You have you have to you can't go from device
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: to device in order for tracking your trends accurate, right.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as you stick with one one device
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and you look at the trends holistically, you'll be fine, right,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, ninety five percent of humans would be fine.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: You know, there is there's no standard algorithm for HRV measurement,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: you know, so again it absolutely varies between different devices.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: We actually got IRB approval to do a research study
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: on exactly that, so looking at the variants of HRV.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And then to your point, the the Apple Watch is
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: also it's a different definition, it's not rms SD and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: then they also I think sample so you know, honestly,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I think Apple Watch is one of the less accurate
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: of all of them. But you know, again it's good
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: for the normal US and human for you know, just
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: the typical trends.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's the thing, isn't it. It's more the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: trend over time rather than the absolute number.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: With this sort of.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Number doesn't really matter, you know, I mean, it's important,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: but yeah, it's all relative.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: So yeah, last year numbers consistently in the no chains
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: or something like that.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: What is what is your HRV?
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: You know on an Apple Watch it kicks around fifty,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: sort of bounces around that.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Number a little bit lower on a garment, right.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Which is which was interesting. But the garment also told
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: me that it once three weeks of data before it
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: really gets accurate. And I quite like that, right, I'm like, yeah,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: okay to celebrate.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, very cool.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: So the guy have a There's a research people that
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I often talk about when I'm presenting to Comforts, and
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: it's the the similarities between overtraining syndrome.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: In athletes and corporate burnout.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Right, So, and I often talk about this type upe
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: that people walk, whether there are an elite athlete or
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: a corporate there's this very thin line between ultimate peak
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: performance on one side of the line and then on
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: the other side of the line over training syndrome or burnout.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And I know that you play in this space.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: So how could people balance whether they're an athlete or
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: whether they are a corporate How do they make sure
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: that they stay on the right side of that type rope?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean I would. I'd love
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: to read the paper you're referencing, but I would. I
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: would assume that recovery and autonomic regulation is identical part
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: of that, right, And we were just talking about HRV
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: as an example, so you know, I would assume that
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: there would be a connection, you know, between those two,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: whether it's you know, overtraining or corporate burnout. So recovery.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: You know, everyone's looking for this longevity cure. You know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: what do you do to stay young? And they want
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: to do a pill and peptides and stem cells. And
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: it starts with sleep. You know, if you're getting quality
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: sleep that you can ideally measure, you don't have to,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: you know, but again I'm a big fan of measurement
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: because it allows you to then optimize. But that's it. Know,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you really start with sleep. And so from that perspective again,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: autonomic you know, HRV resting heart rate, you know, it's
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: kind of the inverse correlation. Yeah, all critically.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Important and and and athletes years ago, before HRV measurement
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: became a thing, athletes used to measure their waking heart
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: rate as soon as they woke up, right, and if
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: they're for resting it, yeah, for resting heart rate and
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: if they're they're waking, resting heart rate had gone either up.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Or down by three or four beats. That was a sign.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: You know, that was the early.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Indicator of the the current HRV status. Right, And I
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: am I completely align with you in terms of recovery.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, when we think about an athlete, and you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: they're constantly manipulating or their their their trainers are manipulating volume, intensity, duration,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: and and you know, one of the key things of
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: athlete training is you do not increase volume and intensity
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: for a long period of time or you're heading towards burnout.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Right, So they'll manipulate all those variables.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: But I think for the corporate who's listening to us,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: they're not really in control of volume and intensity.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they're just in a heavy period at work. And
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: as I say to them, the one lever that you
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: have to pull is recovery.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: If you're a corporate, right, I think you'd be honored with.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: That hundred percent. Yeah, you know, and some of the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: stuff I mean again, I'm a big fan of like
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: cold plunging for autonomic relations. Yes, here in Colorado we
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: go in the rivers right now, all the snows starting
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: to melt, so they're pretty chilly, probably you know, high
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: thirties or so, you know, depending and but yeah, I
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: mean like that as an example. Breathwork would be another.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: So we call these micro habits in our world. You know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: microrabits build a protocol, and so there are protocols to
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: help with recovery. Those protocols to help with anxiety, I
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: mean that's another one just stress in general. You know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: what are you doing to manage the stress? Of course
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: the two are obviously connected. So and then for there,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: you know, what are you putting into your body, what's
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: your you know, your nutritional regimen, what's your exercise regimen,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: all those pieces, and I find you know, when I
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: was iron main training, we used to do what are
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: called bricks, you know, and essentially like move your training
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: up and then two to three weeks before the race,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: depending on the distance, you know, you would start to
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: taper yea to really fortify your muscles and then do
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the race, you know. So there's different strategies there. That
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I like to talk to people about micro
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: and macro recovery, which.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: You've essentially you've essentially mentioned, right, So.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Your macro recovery is your sleep, and your micro recovery
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: are little bits of recovery you can do throughout the day,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: like just a little bit of get off your arson, move,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: drink some water, do some do some slow controlled breathe.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: That that autonomic regulation. So a lot of people don't
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: realize like one of the most powerful ways to switch
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: on your parasympathetic nervous system and dampen your sympathetic nervous
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: system is through the breath. Do you have a fevered
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: recovery breathing protocol, because there's lots of different ones.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Is there anything?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: No, But I mean I've done so many different kinds,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: from yoga, nidra to box breathing, you know, everything in between.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But if you have a protocol, we'd love to take
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: a look and we can put it on the platform
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: and have people you know, ultimately use it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, Look, I mean I generally say to
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: people any type of slow control breathing is going to
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: switch on your vegas nerve from the bottom up. I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: have personally have a slight bent for resonant frequency breathing
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: because the research shows that that can affect your heart
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: rate variability more than others. But I think I think
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: they e is just to slow down the breath. And
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: another really good protocol that people can use. Actually, my
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: PhD supervisor had told me this one is the your
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: lowest comfortable breathing rate where people can try, where you
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: you just take a normal breath in and then you
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: breathe out through per slips as slow as you possibly
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: can and squeeze everything out of your diaphragm. But what
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: comes really interesting is at the end of that the inhalation,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: you don't have to actively inhaliate because your lungs will
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: just fill up automatically because of the pressure vacuum that
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: you've created.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: And it's really quite interesting.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I highly recommend that people play with a
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: number of different things in terms of recovery, because as
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: you as you rightly said eighties, it's the one thing
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: that's going to determine what side of that type rope
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: that you actually are on them. What what are some
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: early warning signs and symptoms that people would see in
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: their own data or feel that would suggest that A
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: there are an athlete that's overtraining or b there corporate
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: that's starting to get on the wrong side of the
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: type rope.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Honestly, I think it's the ones
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: we already mentioned, you know, HRV, resting heart rate. I mean,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I look at HRV, the two of them, really but
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: those are my go to and I know, you know,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: if I'm on the high side, I'm in my HV
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: can be a size one hundred. I'd say average about
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: sixty to seventy with a whoop. And you know, I
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: know if I am really overtraining overtired, it's in like
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the thirties. So you know, HRV for me is and
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: of course you have again resting heart rate is almost
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: like an inverse correlation.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So those are the two that I go to. You know,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: there's also sleep scores you can get out of the
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: or ring or readiness is what they call it. You know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: both of those are great. It gives you an example
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: or a you know, a specific number relative to your
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: sleep and how you can improve in similar with just
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: your daily readiness. So I think those are all great
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: metrics to use.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the ones that they frustrate me a little bit
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: as a as a researcher. So when we were looking
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: at doing this this intervention we're doing with the military currently,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: you know, we were looking at the different devices and
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: looking at HRV and wanting to get the raw data
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: right and a lot of them won't share the raw data.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: You know, they'll they'll give you a they'll give you
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: a score or a body battery or a readiness score
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: where they don't publish the algorithm, and I get why
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: they don't because that's their IP, right, and it's probably
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: some combination of your sleep and your HRV that they're
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: they're integrating to give you your readiness score. Right, just
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: just my my annoyance as a researchers they don't give
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: you the algorithm so that you can then really accurately
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: work out our people are trending. But but I guess
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: for the individual, it doesn't really matter, right, So.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly for the individual doesn't matter. But actually we
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: might have a partner I could recommend to you who
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: can support you their you know, relative to the HRV measurement.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: One of our partners, I mean they actually measure each
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: of you through four different modalities, you know when they're
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: doing a session. It's a group that we work.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: At out of LA.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but happy to chat and it might have
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: someone for you there.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, cool.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: And so you talk about similar to me, You talk
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: that that the next frontier is not just lifespan, right,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: life span is one thing, but health span and mind
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: span or other things. So quickly, I mean most people
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: will be familiar between health span and lifespan, but but
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: just to give the definition or the differentiation between those
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: and also this idea of mind span a lot of
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: people won't be familiar with.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Yep, so lifespan. You know, basically, if you were to
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: look at a graph, it's like, what is the quality
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of your life through really the later you know stages essentially,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: and then you know, relative to that quality of life,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: can you improve that? Essentially? So if you look at
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: your life, you know, people really start slowing down in
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: your seventies and eighties, you know, can you basically normalize
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and have a better you know life quality of life?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I come back to, you know, in those later later
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: periods basically, so you're extending those last years. I think
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: of mind span as a reflection of your This is
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: my personal definition. But you know, I would almost throw
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: in consciousness as well as brain and cognition. You know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: generally we spend a lot of time just thinking about
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: brain optimization, but you know consciousness as part of that
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: as well. That could include spirituality, conclude connection, you know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: any of those pieces. So that's also been in there
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: of my research over the years.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, cool, and Hi is ai either helping in this
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: area or helping to ship some of the thinking in
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: this area.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there's positives and negatives of everything.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a spectrum, So I believe there are
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: some very strong positives. An example right now is one
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: of our lead scientists. His name's doctor Galen Buckwalter. Galen
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: had a tragic accident when he was seventeen, jumped off
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a bridge, hit a rock, and is a quadriplegic. And
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: he has he qualified for a clinical trial at Caltech
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: and he has six neural implants in his brain, and
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: so I've been with him at cal Tech before. It's
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: an amazing clinical trial. He comes in and they screw
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: on essentially these they're called peds essentially interfaces onto his skull,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and then they connect his brain to the Internet. And
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: so we are the generation that's seeing the intersection of
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: biology and machines right now. And so in that example,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: you know, the AI is helping Galen to control a
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: robotic arm and ultimately free him, you know, to some degree.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So that's called brain computer interfaces. There's also spinal cord
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: essentially interfaces where they're going directly into the spinal cord,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you know, for people who have these tragic injuries and accidents.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So I think those are very positive applications of AI.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: There's also negative ones as well. You know, you see
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: in the workplace, I mean everyone is basically just using
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: an LLM to not think yeah, and so I think
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: that can very much be to the detriment of the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: human But you know what we found is really it's
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: human in the loop. You know that concept like you
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: should absolutely utilize the AI, but you can't trust it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not there yet. And especially you know
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in our world, Paul, I mean we have many uh
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: you know clients, you know, we hear about this all
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the time where they're just taking all of their medical
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: information and just uploading it to chat GPT. And the
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: question is why, Well, in the United States are you know,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: our our physicians are not taught nutrition. You know, they're
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: taught maybe three or four days I think out of
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: their entire tenure.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: It's pretty much the same over here.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I think they get about a week's education or nutri
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Do not go and see a doctor with for nutritional advice.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Right of course? Right well there, and that's that's that's
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: kind of insane, right. I have this quick anecdote. I
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: broke my collarbone here in Colorado, and I went to
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the number one orthopedic in the country and I was like,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: what's you know. She's like, it's broken. I was like, okay,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: what's my recovery protocol? And she threw me a sling
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and so my recovery protocol was a mobilization. And then
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I went to my network and I was focusing on nutrition,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: bone broth, collagen. I did some pemp PMF if you're
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: familiar with that modality, localized electrical stimulation basically, and I
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: went back and she said come back in four weeks.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I went back. I'm sorry, she said come back in six.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I went back and forth and she did the X
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: ray and she's like, oh my gosh, it's completely healed.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: What have you been doing? And I was like, doctor,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I've been focusing on my nutrition and she's like, we
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: never would have thought of that. And it was one
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: of those moments. Paul. It's like when I started my
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: company is like, okay, we have.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: To do better.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Like if your doctor is not thinking about nutrition, there's
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: an issue, you know, we have to think of the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: whole human. Another example, my backgroun's in molecular biology. I
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: didn't really cover that. But I spent many years in
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: the lab as a molecular biologist, and you know, from
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: that perspective, you know they're not taught genomics, you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: let alone epigenomics, let alone peptide. So you know, it's
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: it's this fairly terrifying trend. People are now just going
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: to the ms and uploading everything because they can't find
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: what they need from their doctors today. So you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I again, I try to be an optimist on that front,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and that's why we're you know, putting some confines around
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: what we're building. But it's a it's a challenge.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: It's interesting you mentioned that that whole recovery pace. So
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: so last year, in January last year, I had open
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: heart surgery because I find out by chance that I
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: had a congenital heart defect. I had a bicuspo of
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: a ORTI file rather than try customers.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: But but anyway, I ended up having open heart surgery
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: and I wanted.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: To get out of that hospital as quick as I
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: possibly could because number one, the food was shit right
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: that it was so such low protein. And I know
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: that if you just had your chest cut open and
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: cut through bone, you need you need amino acids big time.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: You need collagen, you need all of those things you need.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: You need to be looking at the window at nature,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I was looking at at a brick wall. I'm like,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: this place is shocking for my recovery. But I also
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I used bone broths a lot, I had a lot
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: of protein, and I used red light and near in
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: for real light on the wound, which which was freaking awesome.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: That like how quickly that wound healed.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: And now they actually use you know, real light is
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: a standard protocol for burns victim for a very good reason, right.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: And the and the near infra red stimulates your microchondria.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: So there's there's so much stuff that we can do
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: in terms of recovery that is just not in the
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: healthcare system. And I think the reason for it is
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the healthcare system is really the healthcare system. It's the
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: sick curse system, right. It is just interested in can
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: we stop or cure this disease and then once we do, boom,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: you're good or fix this thing and then that recovery.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: They are not interested in recovery and optimal health whatsoever. Right,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: So I think it's important for people to understand that
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: different or prevention.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, yeah, that's the doctors we work with.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: You know, they're really focused on how do you prevent
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: the disease? You know, even gets to the point it's
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: an actual disease. Sometimes you can, of course, but you know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I think starting there, we're big fans, so we of
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: course look at the biomarkers in biometrics, but now pulling
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: in you know, the epigenetic data as well well, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you can really build this profile of a human and
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: really understand you know, their genetic predisposition all around to
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: their gene expression and how does that ultimately impact you know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: their day to day you know. Fascinating fact is, you
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: know we control through our behavior and our lifestyle, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: it depends on the tissue. And it's you know, it's
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a controversial number, but you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: maybe thirty to fifty sixty percent of our gene expression
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: is based on our behavior. It's based on the people
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: you surround yourself with. It's based on the conversations, you know,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the things that you do. How much time do you
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: spend in nature? How much time are you behind a desk,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: you know, sitting there hunched over you know, da da
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: da so I find it a bit empowering, you know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: from that perspective, because we do have some control even
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: though you have a genetic predisposition, you know, for something
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: like Alzheimer's, you know, you can't necessarily stop the onset
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: of the disease, but you can help support you know,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the onset of the condition and the symptoms and so
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: forth and similar you know, even with Alzheimer's, as we
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: were chatting about earlier, you know, there are protocols that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: outline again behavioral modification changes, things that we can do
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: that ultimately can help prevent dementia, you know, so that
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: one is more preventable.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And and and actually interesting on dementia because
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: in Australia and I mean in America and in Australia
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: it's always been the UK the biggest killer has been
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: cardiovascular disease, and NI for the first time, the biggest
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: killer of females is actually dementia.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: It's not cardiovascular disease, right.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: And and and I think there is a there's an
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: explosion of dementia just around the court. Well, we're actually
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: starting to see it now, you know, with that metabolic
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: dysregulation that people have, you know that a lot of
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: people are calling it type three diabetes. So and and
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: what you mentioned around those protocols there was we just
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: talked offer that that Lancet paper that came out that
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: identified all of these risk factors for dementia and that
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: that by by implementing behavioraliant dimensions, you know, they estimated
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: they could reduce I can't remember when it was sixty
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: or seventy percent of dementia cases, right, which is pretty think.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It massive globally, And there's fifty five million you know,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: has of the writing of that paper, So I mean
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: we're talking tens of millions of people that could be
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: supported through lifestyle and behavior. So yeah, it's definitely a
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: mission of ours. We are going to be publishing. You know,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: you can find the paper online, but we put it
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: into a protocol. People can follow Paul and we'll be
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: giving us away and you know your readers would be
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: would have access to that. But that's the concept. And
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: imagine giving that to our parents and our grandparents. And
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't start in their sixties and seventies. They should
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: start now.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's some of the early research coming out. Nigh
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: is saying that that dementia and Alzheimer's are starting in
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: your thirties. And it starts with metabolism, right, it starts
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: with when you have that high.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Normal blood sugar, you're on the path. You are on
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the path, right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: And so we've talked about the protocol, So so let's
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: let's talk a little bit about what you do in
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: breen one and so just say I'm a typical person
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: who comes in through my company or whatever to bring
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: one what what what happens?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we look at the world again based in
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: the concept of a protocol. And the protocol is just
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: your routine. You know, like Paul, what do you do
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: when you get up in the morning. You know, what
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: are the ten things you do before you really start
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: your day. And so we consider the protocols the framework,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and then the things that you do or micro habits
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: just to oversimplify it. And so we will take a
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: scientific paper, we run it through our AI. We generate
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: these protocols and then we can tailor them. This concept
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: of adaptive AI based on the human based on their demographics,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: based on their genetics, based on their it could be
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: a brain scan. We just partnered with an EEG device
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: where we can now incorporate EEG data or BCI data
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: into these profiles essentially, and then we give them a
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: hyper personalized tailor program essentially based on the protocol and
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: the micro habits is the concept, and we do that
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: on a corporate level. We do it working with concierge doctors.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: That's really been our major focus longevity, you know, that space,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: because it's exploding. We actually just launched peptides dot one,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: which is a offshoot of brain dot one. It's peptides
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: with an A S. And you know, the vision there
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: is to actually provide information support of people that are
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: looking to you know, find quality peptides, which is a challenge.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: You know, we're in this kind of inflection point at
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: least here in the States where a lot of these things,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been doing for years as a triathlete.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've been doing peptides for like decades, you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: in some cases red light, you know, I've had friends
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: that have been doing red light, cold plunging, you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: all these things we've used in trathlon for recovery, you know,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: and so forth. But now they're going really mainstream, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: so that's cool. You know, more and more people have
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: access to these awesome tools. But that's kind of just
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the general framework of brain one peptides one is just
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: having a essentially a platform for measurement ultimately.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: And well do peptides then I want to come back
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: to the to the platform.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So what what is the what's the status?
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: What's the legal status of peptides in the States because
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: in Australia, and I think it's pretty similar in the UK,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: and I could go online and I can buy peptides
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: for research purposes own, right, I can't a doctor over
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: here cannot administer peptides to me because they're they're not
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: approved by the TGA. But anecdotally there is a shitload
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: of people who are using peptides and it's a bit
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: of wild wes, right, because there's no regulation, you don't
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: really know like is this is this BPC one five
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: seven and I'm buying? Is it actually BPC one five seven?
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Is it quality stuff? Is it not quality stuff?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: So? So what's the what is the landscape in the States,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Because I know there are.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Clinics over there so and there's there's doctors who will
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: administer them, so it's clearly a bit different over there.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: And I think probably going to be different gain because
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: I think JFK is a.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Big found of peptides, isn't he sore? Where are we
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: in terms of the status over there?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: We're in a shift. So when you talk about peptides
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: again short chain amino acids, you know, over here you
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: have the glps and glps are exploding. I mean it's insane.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: You know the number of humans who are now injecting themselves,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: which I've mixed feelings about. I think there's a time
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: and a place for glps. And you know, there's also
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: some other areas that the research has shown they're quite efficacious,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: like within women's health PCOS as an example. Actually women
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: are on low doos glps. You know, there's some positive
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: effects there. But you know, so like they have been,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I'd say glps have kind of opened the floodgates. So
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: now people where again ten years ago, we were doing
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: VPC and you know, no one knew GLP one was
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: is it? One is? And so now what's happening is
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: people are exploring further because they're seeing positive impacts from
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: things like glps, and then it's opening, you know, the
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: flood gates again of like TV five hundred and BPC
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and the wolverine and you know this. I mean there's
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: you know, while there's there's really only about twenty to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: thirty peptides that are like you know, the major players
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: in the space, ultimately there's really not that many all
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: at all. And so what's happening in the US is
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: because of RFK, they're getting reclassified essentially. And I heard
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: this week about midweek he will be talking through the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: next five that are going to be reclassified. And if
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I had to guess, it's going to be you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the tv TB five hundred BPC, uh, maybe GHK, you know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: CEU and so forth. So we're seeing it right now.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: And the good news is that and maybe unlike you
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: know in Australia, but you have again these FDA approved
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: peptides you can get from your doctor.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: So at least in that is that sorry, is that
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: currently you can you can actually.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's but there's a few you know, of course
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: again with like GLP ones, but there's like a handful
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: you can get now. And then with this reclassification, you're
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: going to be able to get you know, these ones
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: that are much more prevalent, like the vpcs and so forth.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Right, But right now, if somebody wants to in the States,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: if they wanted to get a wolverine stacks, we should
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: sort of explain this for people.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So BPC one.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Five seven TV five hundred R essentially powerful anti inflammatory
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: peptides help wound healing, all of these sorts of things. Right,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: But what so is it similar similar to Australia where
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: it's a kind of a gray area where you can
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: buy them for research purposes or can you officially go
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: to a doctor and get a script now I know
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: you can for GPS, but for those other ones?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Is it a gray area right now?
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: It's a gray area right now, it's about to right, Okay,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So it's quite similar, right, yeah, yeah, it's exactly the same.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: And to your point, you know, further getting them from
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the gray you know, the gray market. You don't know
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: where that molecules coming from. You don't know if it's
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: been mass spect or run on a mass spectro photometer
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: to understand the molecular composition. You don't know the quality,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: if there's contaminants, fungi, you know, biologics. I mean, so
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: it's and a lot of these are coming from China
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and most the precursors are absolutely coming from China, So
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: you know it's a it is a concern for sure,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: but it's not new. I mean again, having been this
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: for many years, it's only gotten i would say exacerbated
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: because there's so much more demand. And now we call
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: it peptide broification. Uh but uh, you know, like every
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: it's like every you know, crypto cannabis bro is now
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: going into peptides and it's fairly tough, right, interesting because
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: it's such a gold rush. And so you know, back
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: to what we do at Brain one Peptides one. We
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: provide a framework for people to measure if the peptides work.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: You know, like you can actually see you start taking
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: it on a certain day, I'd be considered an intervention.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: You have a baseline of a period of time, it
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: could be one week, two weeks depending and then you
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: just see, you know, how to your biometrics, biro markers improve.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, sure, you're people are constantly uploading their data, uploading
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: their data from their Apple Watch or whatever it may be,
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: getting getting stuff from their doctor, uploading their blood work,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: and you're analyzing all of that in the back end.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, Yeah, they just they connect to wearable once
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: and then we have different types of scans you can
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: do in the app. You can do a voice scan
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and we get fifteen biomarkers from voice.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: We get about four from void from voice from.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely yeah HRV. Honestly I did. We did analysis.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: We saw HRV coming from voice was within five percent
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: of what I saw in my.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Whoop get away.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely your voice. You know tension, I mean
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you hear it in someone's voice, you know, in they're tense.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: So even if you just think of it as a
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: stress monitor, it's incredible some of the biomarkers that they talk.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I yet, but it's coming, you know. Uh.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: And similar with the face I mean hypertension. HRV have
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: also seen it, you know, within within face scans as well.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So if someone you know, they can they can connect
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: their their wearable one time, that's it and then they
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: could do these regular you know types of tests and
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: then that can also include blood of course, but there's
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: challenges with blood as well, you know, relative to when
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: you take it, you know, how you take it. You know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you get oxidation, you get to naturing of proteins with heat,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: you know, blood.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Which which lab, which lab has taken it as well,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: because you know, some of.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: The labs are very slightly different.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: I mean to to go back to just just to
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: to kind of shine a light on this whole area.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: As you rightly said, like your your blood mark, the
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: time that you get it done can be different. Obviously
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: everybody knows about fasting versus non fasting, but but that
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: that time in your chacidian rhythm, if you're a female,
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: where you are in your menstrual cycle, you know you're
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: you're sleep last night. They all of these things affected.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: But you know, if we talk about the whole peptide world.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: So JLP's are really interesting, right because they have been
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: around for quite some time, right, the early versions of
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the GLP ones were around well over a decade ago.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: But now we are really nih just starting to see
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: some of the data come through. And whilst there's very
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: very interesting data. Obviously everybody knows around the weight loss,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: but there seems to be early around cardiovascular disease protection,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: potentially something around dementia, some early signals around that.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: But interesting.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I just read a paper yesterday on people on GLP ones,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: about fifty percent of them have to come off within
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: the first year because of the side effects, right, which
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I think they are. The side effects are more prevalent
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: than people know. And interesting when you look at the
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: biomarkers in a paper, like people were having great bio
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: markers when they're on the glps and clear reductions and
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: risk factors for a number of different diseases. So looking
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: pretty awesome, like liver fat being obliterated, and that's some
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: of the stuff on reditory chide and some of the
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: stuff around liver fat. But then when people go off
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: the golp ones, they put the weight on really really quick,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: like four times as fast as people who've been dieting,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: and all of their markers get.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Really bad, really really quick. Right, And this is my
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: concern with those.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: And then you know, we step into the bigger peptide
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: world where you go all those things that we talked
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: about before that people are getting on the gray market, Well,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: they haven't had the clinical trials done on them yet.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And yes, there's lots of onecdotal stuff that you can
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: talk to your me. You took PPC and his injury
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: got really good, really quick, But again we do not
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: know the long term effects yet, right.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, truly not I would agree, So, yeah, slightly terrifying
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: from from that perspective. Yeah, we where I see a
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: market need or just a human need is like the
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: concept of microdosing jlps. You know, that's last year. I
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: think that makes a lot more sense, depending you know,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: on the on the human and the condition. And then
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: just the concept of like tight trading down, you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: like how do you go off especially a full jos GLP.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And then you know, ultimately just to your point going,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't want to go cool turkey on
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: these things. So is there a mechanism to tight trade
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: you know, essentially down. Finally, like we talked about, you
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: know with triathlon training, you're you're tight trading up. You know,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: it's similar. I think there's a sweet spot for people
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: that could be very very beneficial, you.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Know, and oh oh absolutely.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I mean you look at the research coming out of
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: If you're on an antidepressant and you try and go
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: cold turkey, Jesus Christ, you're in for a world of
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: pee and you've got to really tight trait that dime on.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Very very slowly.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: And I think I think it's probably the same for
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: any drug, right, but particularly the GLPS. I agree and
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, you've got to be lifting. You've got to
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: be doing resistance training when you're on that.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say that the muscle loss
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: like more than anything. I mean, you know, talk about
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: a longevity hack, you know, like it's been tried and true.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: You know, ultimately weights, yeah, you know, into your later
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: stages of life, like sixty seventy, keep going. It doesn't
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: have to be heavy, but continue doing weights. You know,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: it's like nearly indisputable.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: I actually think, you know, when we look when when
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: you look at it, resistance training I think has been
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: massively underappreciated over the years. I mean, I've been an
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: exercise scientist for thirty years. We've been talking about cardiovascular training,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: and for very good reason, right but I think now
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: just seeing the independent and synergistic benefits of resistance training,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: and particularly as we eage as an aging population, I
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: actually think that sarcopenia, which is that progressive loss of
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: bone and muscle, I actually think it's probably the biggest killer.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Right now, people go, hold on, what do you mean
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that's ridiculous. Cardiovascular disease is the biggest killer. We're not
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: seeing dementia.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: But so if you if.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: You're in your sixties, falls are the seventh biggest killer.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: And the falls generally come because people have lost muscle
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: and particularly those fast twitch fibers that you know you're
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: reaching out to grab something ere regaining your feet when
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: you get into your seventies, falls are the fifth biggest.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Killer of everybody.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Right, But if you have low muscle mass, you dramatically
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: increase your risk of cardiovascular disease, you dramatically increase your
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: risk of dimension your degenerative diseases, and you dramatically increase
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: your risk of metabolic diseases like diabetes. So I think
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: if we look at not just it on itself, but
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: the impact on other things, I actually think low muscle
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: mass is one of the biggest killers out there.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And oh have you got any thinking on that? Yeah?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: No, I mean absolutely. Again, you know, we talk about it.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are interested in these longevity hacks,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: you know, like what can I do? What are the
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: quick easy fixes? And so again we really focus on
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: the behavioral side. But again, muscle mass is everything, and
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: it doesn't you know, you don't have to be ripped,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: but just doing again resistance training any type of weights
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: again into your older age like absolutely critical.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: So couldn't agree more.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: And so you talk we need to wind up a
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: little bit, but you also talk about behavioral design right,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: which I'm a fan of as well. So so give
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: us give our listeners some practical tools that they can
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: do around behavioral design to close what what I call
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: the knowing doing gap. Are lots of people called it
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: right because there's a lot of people listening to this.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: They know what they need to do, but they're not
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: quite doing it right. I say, they're waiting for the
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: motivation ferry. But what are some little behavioral design hacks
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: that that that you have come up with, or that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: That your system uses people can actually use.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, so we have thousands of these actually in the system.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: And you know, so for sleep, as an example, you
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: want to improve your sleep, well, what can help improve
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: your sleep is when you get in the morning, get
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: up in the morning. You know your direct sunlight, your
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: secedian regulation, and of course cortisol, and you know all
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: of these additional stress hormones that actually start in the
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: morning but that impact sleep at night. And so you know,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: big fan in the mornings if you can get the
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: direct sunlight. I live in a valley here in Colorado.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: So I don't actually get direct sunlight till about nine,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: but as soon as you can do it, it's absolutely
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: a beneficial microhabit as we would call it. And you
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: can combine that, you know, after breakfast doing a twenty
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: minute walk, you know, in the sunshine, and try to
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: get you know, both of those things, you know, with hydration,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: which sounds very rudimentary, you know, but people do not
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: drink enough water period. Yeah, So you know, those would
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: be like three examples of three micro habits. Also, the
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: power of connection in community. You know, people who wake
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: up in the morning and feel a connection to something.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: You can call it God, you can call it yourself,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: you can call it nature. It doesn't really matter. But
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: having that connection that purpose your life expectancy can go up,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you know, ten plus years just by having that connection.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: An extension that could be community, the people you surround
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: yourself with, the things that you do, could be a
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: book club, could be you know, bingo. I mean, it
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't really matter as long as you're with people and
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you know, keeping that connection up. So you know, as
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: a data scientists and maleculobologist, I'm always looking at the
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: data and like trying to see you know, like how
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: do we measure this thing? But like community as an example,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a very tried and true there's
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: enough papers around this. You know, people who have strong
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: senses of community live longer. People who are in isolation
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that have things like hearing loss or traumatic brain injury,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: you know, they live shorter lives ultimately. And the good
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: news is that again, these are things that we can
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: improve once you're cognizant of them and just come up
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: with the framework. We call it a protocol. It's literally
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: just a routine or a list, you know, and you
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: try to do the best you can, and you don't
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: beat yourself up, and you start small. You start with
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: one or two of these behavioral changes and then they
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: grow incrementally. But if you try to do it all
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: at once, it's like the people that diet after the
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: New Year, you're going to fail. So small micro habits
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: that have you know, compounding interest essentially over time.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: And you then are helping people with Brehamong, are helping
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: them to measure their progress. And do you suggest or
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: does the AI suggest behavioral tweaks that people.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Can do based that's correct. Yeah, that's when we call
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: that adaptive AI. It's that concept. You know. We could
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: upload our data right now, Paul, and you know it
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: give us a blueprint, and then we can upload our biometrics.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: We could have biomarkers, and that would be a snapshot
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: at this moment in time. But it changes, you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: your biology changes. I mean that's the thing with blood.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: You know, you can fast, but at the day before
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: you have a high carbohydrate or a high protein you
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: know day you know that might impact your blood work.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: So we really look at things, you know, similar to
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: the whole HRV conversation. You know, it's really important to
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: look at the trends over time, and that's what we
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: help provide.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think this species is really starting to
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: get quite interesting. I mean, you take somebody who's wearing
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: a continuous glucose monitor, right, and that if you can
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: feed that data up.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have here right here is a continuous
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: key tone monitor which is just being.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Released, right, and I know that there are some early
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: research versions of a continuous cortisol monitor, right, which for
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: me is a bit of a game changer. Right, if
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: you are just constantly measuring these things, and particularly your
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: glucose in your cortisol right like and getting that real
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: time information like geeze, that upens up a whole new world.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, we're probably twenty years away
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: from people having a chip inserted under their skin that
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: is just uploading all of this data into AI, that
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: is just you know, just making decisions or tweaks on
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: the fly. And this whole idea of a digital twin.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: How far away do you think we are from that?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: In reality?
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I think we're pretty close because again we're seeing it
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: right now. I mean I mentioned doctor Galen book Walter earlier.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: You know, he has six of these chips literally on
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: his brain on his neural tissue, five in the neo,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: one in the prefrontal. It's right now. So to upload
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: information that is different. You know. You can't like you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: upload or download jiu jitsu and no jiu jitsu yet,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you know, like in the matrix. But but the ability
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: to measure first, you know, we've made massive progressions there
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: down to the single neuron basis, and in the future
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: there could be a two way communication for that. So
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: it's it's all happening quite quickly.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a very interesting space and the word
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: that our kids inhabit is going to be very very interesting. Date,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: So where can people go to find out more about you,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: to find out about.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Brian one and and these? Brian one available.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: For individuals yet and if not yet, what are you
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: planning it?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: It will be this summer, so we'll be opening it up.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Our goal is to give away a million dementia prevention calls,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: so it'll be completely open. We'll make sure you and
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: your listeners are aware. And yeah, right now we're working
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: primarily with primarily with longevity clinics, concierge doctors and pepti
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: companies and so forth. But later the summer.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool?
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: And where can people go to register find out more
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: about things?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Where do we send them?
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: So it's brain dot one uh and also peptides dot
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: o any one. Yeah, they can find us there and
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: happily mentioned your name and we'll put them to the
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: front of the list.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Awesome, great stuff, darnth many thanks and go and enjoy
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: your day in Colorado.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you into nature. Such cheers.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Good month.