Latest / Ready To Drink Podcast / Why DTC Brands Disappear on the Retail Shelf | Megan Coffey, SmashBrand | Ready To Drink Podcast

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Why DTC Brands Disappear on the Retail Shelf | Megan Coffey, SmashBrand | Ready To Drink Podcast · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Coffey.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am our head of strategy here at Smash France.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've been with the company about two and a half years.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've spent most of my career on the agency side.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, a former art director turned chief creative officer turned out of strategy.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done everything from telling stories from the visual design side to now really crafting those stories, setting the vision, um, building the positioning, getting my hands and uh mind super deep around the taxonomy of companies so that the packaging is really clear around the naming structure and all that.
• 0:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now this is exciting.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have yet to I've talked to a couple different ones in the canning side of things, but never you do all packaging, it seems like when I checked out your website.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I intentionally didn't look you up at all, but I did look up Smash Brand uh just to know what we're talking about.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about Smash Brand as an overview, kind of a flyover, and then we'll kind of jump into some specifics there.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Smash Brand, I mean, I I think it's extremely unique.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's easy for an employee to say that they work somewhere, but you know, it's an agency that, you know, is founded on data.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we test everything and we are maniacally focused on the package.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love all butcher the framing of it, but basically it's the you know, number one thing, a consumer, it's the brand literally in their hand.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like literally the brand touching your consumer's hand at the retail shelf.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the power of that and really thinking through a lot of times when when companies and brands they do their packaging, it's almost an afterthought.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or they're not even using a specialist who's doing it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so what our founders found when they built the company is that they really got in and started testing.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: We have this task of performance.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we basically get in and we don't just test like, you know, what average agencies would test, like, oh, let's go pull what we can from, you know, boring consumer tests over here.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: We literally test the words, we test the category and lean in on what we can know from the industry.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: We test exactly what the pack words, what we call them on pack, are going to be.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are those key claims?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we put them against each other out of context of design.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then we go in and like literally then test design next to each other.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we lock our copy, go on and do design, and then after design, we do purchase intent.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what's that like shelf feel?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we do all this online.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're extremely efficient and fast.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I come from again, a like I said, creative background, but an agency background where I did everything from digital to, I mean, I've worked the gamut.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I did Toshiva press runs back in the day for million-dollar print catalogs, you know, so going in there making sure the computer went green in the middle of the night, you know.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I love so much about this is we can get a client in and in a matter of like six to eight weeks, like literally rebuild the brand in many ways.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're influencing all the way up to the top because we're getting the consumer data along the way.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really shifting and making consumers change.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, those little badges that are in packaging become a big piece of your story when you get into your retail and your events and all that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love the real tangible aspect.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Having come from a background where everything was sort of put on a website that could be changed.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: It did a lot of campaigns in digital marketing, or he did a lot of the behind-the-scenes PDF deck builds and positioning.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is literally putting it, you're seeing it in the world, you're seeing it up on the stores on Amazon, you're seeing it in-store itself.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's exciting.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I like what what uh you just said there about the stores part because I think a lot of times in these, and and both on the show and and also off-camera when I when we're doing consulting work, a lot of times founders and businesses in general, when they're small startups, they have some success on DTC where they're selling through their website.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then the success when they go into wholesale and the on the retail is not as much.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they seem to have a trouble understanding that.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, sometimes, not all the time, it is the packaging.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it is the fact that the story is not every what I guess let's talk about, let me back up.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about if I was a brand founder, how the story is told on a website because everything's right there, versus what you have to tell on a package on the shelf when it is alone with your competition in a sea of brands.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love it so much.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love working with, I mean, we work with a gamut, you know, we still work very much with founders.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We work with founders who have a couple key products that have done really well.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have founders, they have one right now that's got 150 products and is moving to retail.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say the number one thing they're most worried about is, well, my consumers recognize me.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, am I gonna have drop off?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and they and they, you know, they treat their consumers like they're loyal constituents that they are.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the reality is when you get in store, one, you're you are talking to somebody else.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure, you want the person who's bought you to recognize you, but in many cases, you're trying to find a person who doesn't know who you are.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so oftentimes, and that's why through our process, it's fun to get the founders comfortable with like, hey, this is iterative.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like the first look at the creative when we put into testing is not going to be where we end up.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're learning, you know, so we're gonna push and stretch what you're comfortable with so we can see what consumers can can learn.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes we'll have clients that actually go run side tests on their own where they'll take some of the branding.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also have a middle world where it's like we've tested our way into a pack that actually ends up very close to what the consumers have been doing, but they've just needed that validation because they're insecure about okay, I did build this from D to C.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: It worked really well.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have a specific brand in mind that I don't want to say, you know, the the details of, but it was interesting.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up and ended up looking very, very similar to the current pack, but the how much that claim changed on what we just called the product was so interesting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and this was specific to like a mushroom coffee brand.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you make consumers, you know, the taste come forward in a way that somebody wants to buy at shelf versus maybe what if somebody's going online and they're getting the marketing, they want the mushroom, you know, they're not turned off by it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're on a shelf of delicious coffees, how do you make them go to the mushroom coffee and not be turned away?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, it's just such a fun exercise.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, founders are wonderful because they're so invested.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, oftentimes they're they're worried about what their constituents might think, or they're just used to the decision-making process of not having the data.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's why they come to us.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes it's a it's a process, you know.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get to act like you know, many agencies do, regardless if you do testing or not, where we're that middleman of like, well, here's what the consumers are saying now, let's work it together, let's take your knowledge, bring it all together.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then bringing you in from an agency, that's a huge asset to like to the fact of, I mean, considering now that that Smash brand would be having an in-house thing.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you would kind of cut out that part of the process and be able to consolidate not in a bad way, I mean that in a good way, and vertically integrate that seamlessness for, I mean, how do you how do you grab that data?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it uh aggregated from industry data or is it you know custom focused groups you guys run?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do you kind of how do you package that for these uh these founders or brands in general?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's all fully custom built on our end.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk to consumers, it's online for what we do.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And candidly, you'd have to talk to our data wizards on our side to get them to explain that side of it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they pull the insights that they go in, they have the panels in place where they're all able to get the consumers we want.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have our margins.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: We try and keep the audience as broad as we can, as you know, that gets harder the more narrow you get.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and then obviously we can cut the data in different ways, but I don't know that I could answer it as well as they could, but yeah, they have a step on our end where it's not we don't pull any of this data, we don't go use the third party in terms of how we actually do it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: We built it all of ourselves.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was a perfect answer because that's exactly what I was hoping you'd say.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Was it's you know, because sometimes when you ask, it's like, well, we get it from industry IRI and all that, and then we decide where to go.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's not really the customization.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are going very uniquely.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like that remote.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're they're doing remote focus groups.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and remote, and again, I say, and you probably mean this, but sometimes I even think old world remote, where it's like, oh, you put people in a room remote.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is like truly consumers online, it's all digitally provided.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is interesting because I, you know, one of the things I'm excited about helping evolve, even on our side, is that UI experience for consumers of how they're looking at things because we get to part of being a strategist here is we get to make sure that we're putting the stimulus in front of the consumers in an interesting way.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for instance, I have a product I'm working on right now for a founder-led company who's coming to the US with a snack product, and they are totally open to the name of what it's going to be.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of just putting names in front of them, words on a page, you know, well, let's AI generate some quick, you know, logos.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's put the logos, let's get the narrative out there.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the things I feel like I've really brought to Smash is not just the strategy side of getting the insights, but like what's the, like you said, the storytelling element to make the name come to life.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then we A B test that against, you know, our head-to-head or monadic versions of looking at those ideas.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so now we know before we even move to the next step, okay, what name is it gonna win?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then what do we take in piece and parse from everything?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: How is how's the mindset for you personally?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean again, nothing negative.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just mean what's it like transitioning from the creative side to really the forest in the tree strategy type of side and how all the puzzle pieces kind of fall into place.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I would have never thought, you know, coming out of college, actually, I grew up in Texas, went to a design college, you know, uh, probably one of the most competitive art directors you would ever meet.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: The way it worked is, you know, the projects you won, the brands you won are what you got to work on.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, but I did find that I've always been a very systematic thinker in terms of like, you know, I want to be able to think about the idea, take it down, connect it, and really where that's turned into, you know, of course, brand storytelling became naturally there.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so as I started to grow as a, you know, our director became a you know, creative director and all those things, you start moving out of the work sum, and you're really about those relationships with the clients, connecting to what their goals are.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think at the time I didn't even really realize how much.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course I partnered with strategy all the time and we built the briefs.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, you know, what I really find, and my boss, our president of our company, Christy Labor, she really was the one that's like, you're a strategist, girl.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what you know, but but I mean, she really like helped me identify with the fact that like again, and then probably one of my greatest strengths and passions is the architecture piece of brand development packaging.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because what makes a package sell is how is a brand, what pulls you in, what are the key claims and how are they organized, and then how do you systematize it across uh sometimes very complex portfolio, especially like supplements, pet food.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: My gosh, that one's been super exciting.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I would say, you know, it's surprising how much my I always joke with our clients is I'm like, you're gonna get these, you know, what we call our PDPs, our front of packs.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, they're gonna look more designed than they're intended to.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, these are built in, you know, Canva or whatnot.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, creative's gonna take and put their jet, you know, sizzle on these, but I'm like, they're gonna be very thought through because that's kind of the background I bring.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the hierarchy, it's the sizing and the weighting.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then you know, I have a great relationship with our creatives where I tell them the same thing too.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is gonna feel like it's more boxed in, but you know, blow it out.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you do like the first concept draft and then it goes to creative after that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the stri strategy team, this is also what's a bit different about us, which is really fun, is you know, we we almost go a step farther than like a traditional agency would, where you know, you almost have the creative director doing the creative brief and kicking off the teams.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: We create the brief, we kick off creative, um, but we take it that next step of like, here is the arc, the hierarchy of the elements.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like oftentimes you would see in um, you know, some worlds where it would just be like, here's your copy in a doc, nothing to weed, and it's just like here you go, or maybe it says like make this bigger.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we really think through that more and give percentages.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: We might even have some strict guidance sometimes on like the logo needs to be 40% of a pack because you're looking at it on a crowded shelf.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, sometimes it's more open and we're like, hey, you know, you have the freedom to play with these elements, but these are locked, and here's where they have to go, and things like that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we get a lot more granular.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we pick off the creative, we're taking away some of those things that might distract them in the process where they really truly get to hone in on what those concepts, those directions are.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love it because it sounds like you're just building everything in the one in that in the process under one house.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I really like that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like somebody can come in with a cocktail napkin idea and and really run all the way through to the end.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate what you said too, and what you're doing, not what you said, what you're doing, because that's the really the way I kind of go with strategy stuff.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: When I was in the distributor space, you know, my job kind of fizzled out because distributors, there was a period of time before the SPU proliferation and beverages, obviously, you know, where distributors were brand builders and distributors for a bit in the alcohol space and stuff like that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then around 2017, it kind of ended.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where my relationship with uh with those clients and those contracts sort of ended because that's what we did.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: We built the market, we built all these stories, we built these media things in-house alongside the distributor.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's fun that it's I find it fun now since 2018 to not be in that and be floating out in the ether and just finding out, and that kind of forced me to be able to work directly with brands and retailers.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now, just like you're saying, you're be I'm able to see the retailer's perspective, the brand's perspective, and the distributor's perspective, and also doing qualitative research alongside these consumers and putting all four of those together is a beautiful picture that I wish more people had the time or focus and attention on seeing because it it would it eliminates so many inefficiencies and roadblocks down the road.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, it really does.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the retailer piece, like you just said, is such a big part of it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of our core elevators is obviously a discovery and we go and talk to folks, and part of the discovery is asking the client, get us in touch with who's talked to a retailers, get us in touch with, you know, any of the teams that could the sales folks get us in touch and we can use and kind of learn from them.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes it's we learn the most from the team who's putting these retail decks together and trying to tell the story.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And usually it's the companies that don't have the, well, this product's selling really well, this one's not.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're having a hard time communicating how this fits in our portfolio.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so we end up writing that narrative for them on, okay, well, here's how it's all going to come together on the packaging.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: But like to tell that packaging story, we're telling the story of like, well, here's your platforms and here's what's invisible to them, here's what's not.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here's literally this morning.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was sifting through 150 SKU portfolio trying to figure out the relationship of what consumers actually ask themselves and what is the client's own organization strategies, you know.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, it's fine.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's uh it's funny that uh you just said about what's invisible, and I think that's something I haven't talked about on the show, and I want to get into that.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of times I think about cans or anything like that, where nobody took the time to show the per the be the brand like a mock-up of what it looks like on the and they just they're just you can just tell that the package designer was just it was a friend that was doing something for a friend, or it was something, and then all of a sudden it's sitting on the shelf, and I'm sitting here like looking at it, and I'm like, you can't even see it, like because it's behind it, and then they don't think about.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I try to tell everybody, I'm like, if you're gonna make something in this industry, put yourself literally in the shoes of the consumer, but not you as the consumer, as part of the end, like you have to like literally be like, I don't want to say, like, you just gotta like tunnel vision yourself through a grocery store and really and I tell them to go to other categories, and I'm like, go don't walk in beverage because you know beverage, you know, walk in to the pet food aisle, walk in somewhere else, pay attention to where everything is, not what, where it all is.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I've been in places recently where five to ten percent of the products, the best part about the label and the packaging is not actually front facing, or they didn't know, and it's be the way the shelving is, it's hidden behind another thing.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because they thought they were gonna have an end cap that was gonna show the side.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's actually one of my favorite aspects too.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: We create, we call it these vision boards when we get into the.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So after we do the brief, we we talk about, we use this twin cousin neighbor kind of strategy to talk about close in and further out, which is really oftentimes closer to the aesthetic, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you look like today?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we gonna go?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you comfortable?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I love to go out of category, like you just said, and pull, let's say we're trying to create like premium craftsmanship as a category.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go find like who does premium craft really well, like and where are they and what about it is interesting.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's and then finding it out of category, sometimes you just find really gorgeous architecture and really smart taxonomy that's like, hey, yeah, and then it makes you go down a radivold, like, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I usually go having come from the website development world, I go to the websites and I look at their navigation and I start to ask myself, okay, but to your point, you're right.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because sometimes if you don't get out and go walk into the store, where that skew actually is gonna sit might be very different.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, a lot of people, especially the D2C folks who built their brand online, they're only looking at their product next to their own products, you know, and they're like, but no, this has to be different because it's gotta be shoppable.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this is to be good for the Amazon store image.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna get there.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: But like we have to get there through what's retail ready.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we have to remind clients of that all the time.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, we do the e-com graphics and all that, but like we are optimizing for the in the front, like in the store.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're walking up to the shelf, you've got three seconds.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: What is what's gonna grab your attention and why, you know?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, while while they're on their phone looking at their shopping list, scrolling TikTok, and then hoping that you catch their eye.
• 18:23
  unknown: Exactly.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I try to tell people be a presence in your retail places because if before you know it, like I was walking in the grocery store yesterday, I won't share the name, but I know a brand that had spent a lot of money on an NCAP, and all of a sudden this the grocery store was having a new bundle promotion on their meats.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And guess where they placed the you know, three-foot sign right in front of the display of the thing.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So for a week or two, however long that sign's gonna be there and that place is doing that that brand's gonna see a decline in sales.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And most likely, as you know, for everybody else to know, those signs are placed strategically, they're handed to them on a on a piece, literally, still to this day, they're handed a piece of paper with the planograms and where to sort everything.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So while we're sleeping at home, those staff are reorganizing the stores.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not constantly walking in, they're not sending you email updates saying, hey, we changed the store set this week, you know, for this promotion that we're doing or this cross-category thing we're doing with bundling, you know, steaks and green beans and potatoes.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that a lot of times, and I think that's the biggest thing for DTC as well, is getting them to realize the reality that retail is very high maintenance.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody wants to focus on this, you know, what it costs to be in retail and from a financial standpoint.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that ever a lot of people miss the relationship and the the constant attention that they need.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, to any grocery convenience that are listening, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying this actually to brands to know the value is in keeping that relationship tight and knowing that you're always looking because the amount of times I've walked in and been like, you ain't gotta walk over.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you walk over to a store manager and it's like, hey, that can you move that sign over two more feet?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: They'll do it most of the time.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't in some malicious thing where they're trying to block you, they're just doing what they were that piece of eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper told them to do 11 o'clock the night before.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so true.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know I was just thinking as you were talking, you know, we joke internally all the time when we try when we mock up our shelf sets, you know, for digital, we go and store, obviously.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, now of course we can use AI to help like further directly.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's been huge, yeah, reality, but we'll go in there still, and we've had to at times like literally just completely rearrange a shelf and a store, so not not loving us all the time for that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so that we can get a more realistic, you know, idea of what it's gonna look like for the product that we're gonna put on, you know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great tip for everybody to listen.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: In the states where you can move your product around, or some states you can't legally touch your product when it hits the shelf.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But in the states where you can, if you offer to help them rearrange their shelves, you can get yourself a really good spot.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna say it note that and write the pen, pin on that, guys.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: You you offer a service to them when you legally can, they will take advantage of it and you will win.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: It might take you an hour, but six months after reorders, you'll appreciate that hour you spent.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell me a little bit like into your personal story.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, take me a little bit back before before the creative work, or excuse me, before the strategy work in the creative.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any uh campaigns or anything like that that really or projects you don't have to name any brands or anything like that, but type of things that really kind of got you excited and kind of locked you in on this to kind of keep moving you forward into where you are now?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's funny.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share one just because it it came up.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was flying for a client last week and was in the airport and stumbled upon a tagline I actually wrote in college.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like a uh barbecue joint.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you may have heard it's called the Salt Look, Salt Lick if you're in Texas.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've been there.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did you like it?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, there's barbecue loyalists out there who have their opinions, but I I love it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's right down the street from us.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, go ahead.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a purist.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you give me good barbecue.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna, I'm not, I'm not a very like, I'm I'm very much like, if you made good stuff and it was tasty, I'm good.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a lot of bad things in my day, so I know what's good and what's not.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh great, here you go.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're about to get a ton of comments on barbecue.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best barbecue out there?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um bring it on Kansas City, Texas, and South Carolina, whoever, I don't care.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Carolina, bring it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so in school, um, we got to pick our own client.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, having gone to school down the street, I had friends who worked at the Salt Lake, and they were like, you know, I picked them and I ended up coming up with the tagline, you can smell our pits for miles away.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and my friend was like, dude, you gotta go sell that for t-shirts, you know, or something.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, sure, okay.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I for$700, I sold the uh rights to t-shirts and hats to the Salt Lake.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then actually, fast forward a few years later, I ended up, they ended up buying full rights to it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was like a 20-something year old.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I've stumbled into the Salt Lake in the airport at Austin and they had it on another shirt still.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so cling to fame, I would say.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh of my uh Salt Lake.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's so funny, and the way I tell that is that was copywriting.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always told myself for many years, I'm like, I'm not a copywriter, I'm an art director, but some of the best creative directors are writers, mainly because you're you turn your creative direction into words, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Especially I always feel like really good creative leaders are able to manifest an idea out into the world that others can latch onto and feel like it's their own.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's through words, not showing it visually.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know, as my career progressed, and obviously I got to work on different, you know, I worked on that one when I was very young, but then I worked on Anheuser Busch was one of the first accounts, and I did a ton of website work, but I worked on Samsung for Business.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I helped create and launch that for them.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Amazon business, I helped reposition them with the acquisition of Profit Bought, our company that I was working at at the time.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I just found over time just I really loved the storytelling, the really digging in and defining the personality of the brand and the intricacies to that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know, throughout my career, I just sort of kind of navigated towards the bigger thinking elements.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually left the company I was at after we got acquired and kind of went through that transition, took a little time to myself.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got two boys.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, when I did that, I worked for myself for a little while, and that's when I started working with Smash Brand, is you know, we it really started as a like, you know, hey, you know, help us out with some copy.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, sure.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then it turned into my boss and I really just jiving and she brings, you know, craft background, world, you know, true, deep, deep CPG.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, again, I bring this, you know, storytelling, this taxonomy, this creative kind of vibe.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: We just sort of gelled immediately and um it's really worked well for what we're trying to build and create.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have a lot of fun with it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I love the, I just I love everything about what you're saying.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love the journey that your clients go through versus a lot of like segmented processes that involve multiple agencies and things like that.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of time, I mean a lot of it, I work with those founders directly, and I totally can understand how overwhelming that is.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because also, let's say you in your process from cocktail napkin to shelf, if you have five or six agencies influencing your your decision, and let's also add in the majority of founders are not from the industry, they're coming in from another industry, maybe they had a win somewhere financially, or they just wanted to change their life, or they were always passionate and want to try it out.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel for them and the and the empathy of that initial journey because that's a lot of influence from multiple angles, because everybody is trying to serve the client, but also only trying to serve the client from their puzzle piece.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then the competition within the agencies, they don't want to share the full picture because they don't want the other agency to steal.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's one of those things where you're able to come in with a strategy, and and that's why I love what you're doing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I really I appreciate you sharing how they run through their journey as a client with you.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and and you know, and again, it's easy to say obviously I like what I'm doing and where I'm at and all that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I what I what I love about even the branding process that we go through is again, the logo is so critical to the package.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, you see so many logos on package.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was looking through Target today, getting inspiration for, you know, a line of supplements I'm working on right now.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to do that where I look at, you know, I pulled one brand and just look at them all next to each other just online.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you can do it in store.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you just look at these and you're like, I don't even know what brand that is, you know, like, and of course, you know, I mean, the consumer might be shopping for a certain vitamin, and so they're not, they don't really care, but you can't build that brand equity over time.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can't scale from there.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so what I love about our brand identity process, our brand world building is it's again, it's so iterative, it's attached to the packaging.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not in isolation, it's not this big, you know, five-month exercise where we come out of it with like five versions of the logo and we slam you the PDF, you know, master dictionary and um with 500 pages to go read that no designer will ever read and will always try and break.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so it's just I love that part of our process.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: It feels just so more real, much more real.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I would say that that's probably been the thing.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm even most excited to even kind of build on that even more and just help, you know, figure out how we do that more for clients and how because you know, we they look at us as a packaging design company, which we are hands down, that's what we sell.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes you are re-establishing their brand or some cases building from scratch.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're truly you're truly a partner.
• 27:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, that's really what you're you know, you're not just in it for one singular piece, and I think that's awesome.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: What uh while we're kind of closing out, like kind of remind everybody where um where they can find Smash Brand online, websites, social media handles where they can connect with you on LinkedIn or anything like that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: SmashBrand.com is our website.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you certainly reach out.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Christy Labor, I know she'll be happy I plugged her.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: She leads our sales.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Go go find her.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's the best person to hit up if you want to get a project in the door.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, Megan Coffee.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then go.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what I love too, if you really want to get a sense for how SmashBrain thinks, our my boss, Christy, has a podcast.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's shopping with Christy, and it's hilarious.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can find it on LinkedIn, you can find it on YouTube, um, but she literally walks the stores and she talks about what she sees.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can find that through her.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I don't know.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: That I think that would be the first way to do it.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's perfect.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: You did great.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know this is your first podcast.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, that was painless.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got I got my my clothes.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: You were perfect.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got my clothes out here now.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to remind everybody in the audience as we're closing out, definitely check out Smash Brand.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: But most importantly, outside of this story, and and Megan and I have never met, and this is about human connection as much as it is about beverages and all the things that we love and the ROI of business.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I want everybody five minutes a week.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is my challenge every episode.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Five minutes a week of kindness to a stranger, 20 minutes a month, everybody.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, look at the people while they're walking by, smile, wave, ask somebody how they're doing, how their day is, shut your mouth and listen to their story.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're at the coffee shop or you're at the gas station fumbling with the coffee or excuse me, the creamer and the sugar.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the person next to you, how are you doing?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't talk.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ask them, focus on them.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: This world is a beautifully destructive place, and the human connection is the most powerful thing we can have, everybody.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not blowing smoke up anybody's ass.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is serious.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: That five minutes, that conversation could change somebody's day, week, month, or God forbid they didn't even want to be on this earth.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: That minute of human connection can make them pause and think things through.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you, Megan, for coming on, not only for just coming on and telling your story, but having the courage to come on with no questions, no prep, and with a complete bearded stranger in a car you never met before.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate I appreciate the courage that you have.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very, it's a very showing of of yourself and the business that you represent.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for the time and sharing your story today, Megan.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: You have a good rest of your day.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: You did great.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Great job, great job.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.