Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Build an Aesthetic Physique Without Destroying Your Mental Health with Laurin Conlin | Ep 226

Transcript

Build an Aesthetic Physique Without Destroying Your Mental Health with Laurin Conlin | Ep 226 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: Let's say you've been obsessing over every gram of food, spending hours analyzing your physique in the mirror and even saying no to social plans because they might derail your diet, and you found yourself constantly anxious about food and exercise, even feeling trapped by the number on the scale.
• 0:16
  Philip Pape: If so, this episode's for you.
• 0:19
  Philip Pape: Today, we're going to explore how to build an aesthetic physique without destroying your mental health.
• 0:24
  Philip Pape: As I sit down with IFBB bikini pro and mental health advocate, lauren Conlon, we discuss the overlooked psychological costs of pursuing the perfect body, you'll discover how to break free from food-related anxiety, avoid obsessive behaviors and build an integrated approach to fitness that puts your well-being above all else.
• 0:44
  Philip Pape: If you've been feeling trapped by rigid dieting or struggling with body image issues even if you've made progress, this episode will show you what you might be missing for a sustainable physique that you're mentally proud of.
• 0:57
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
• 1:09
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today I'm sitting down with the incredible Lauren Conlin to explore that fine line between building an aesthetic physique and maintaining mental health.
• 1:19
  Philip Pape: Lauren is the host of the LocoFit Show podcast, owner of Redefine Healthy Brands and an IFBB bikini pro.
• 1:26
  Philip Pape: She has a master's in exercise science and is currently pursuing another master's in clinical mental health counseling.
• 1:33
  Philip Pape: Lauren has the practical and the academic experience where fitness and mental health overlap.
• 1:38
  Philip Pape: Today you'll learn about the mental costs of constantly striving for an aesthetic ideal, especially in physique, sports and Instagram fitness culture.
• 1:48
  Philip Pape: Lauren is going to help us understand challenges like food-related anxiety, disordered eating behaviors and obsessive tendencies that can develop when aesthetics are prioritized over well-being.
• 1:59
  Philip Pape: And stick around, because toward the end of the episode, lauren will give you some first steps to finding a mentally healthier approach to your physique development.
• 2:08
  Philip Pape: Now, this has been recorded after we attempted to record three times and, due to tech issues, we finally got it right.
• 2:14
  Philip Pape: So you're going to notice a few things at the beginning One that I am looking way up at above the camera if you're watching the video, which I corrected shortly later on, and then a few times where we joke about the fact that we had to re-record a few times and Lauren was awesome.
• 2:28
  Philip Pape: I think you're going to love this episode regardless, so bear with us with the tech issues and dive right in and enjoy the show.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: Lauren, it's so great to have you.
• 2:36
  Philip Pape: Welcome to the show.
• 2:38
  Laurin Conlin: I'm so happy to be here.
• 2:39
  Laurin Conlin: And third time's the charm.
• 2:41
  Laurin Conlin: We have had two tech issues.
• 2:44
  Philip Pape: Exactly Two tech issues.
• 2:45
  Philip Pape: We're practicing our acting chops here.
• 2:47
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and really wanted to get warmed up for you guys and just really dive right into it.
• 2:51
  Laurin Conlin: But no, thank you so much for having me on.
• 2:52
  Laurin Conlin: I really really appreciate it and I'm super excited to dive into these topics.
• 2:57
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm excited too, because mental health is sometimes overlooked, often overlooked.
• 3:03
  Philip Pape: There's such a spectrum of in dieting whether we're talking about macros or intuitive eating or the whole spectrum disordered behaviors and people doing things for an extreme or for a look or to go on Instagram or whatever.
• 3:17
  Philip Pape: And you've had experience across that spectrum.
• 3:19
  Philip Pape: Right, You've been a bikini pro, dieting down and going through all of that, and you've also been a coach who advocates for mental health and now you're going for that master's in mental health.
• 3:29
  Philip Pape: So tell us a little bit about what took you to this point where mental health is so important, and then we can kind of dive in to help people understand it a little more.
• 3:37
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, for sure, and it truly is one of those things where I feel like, even just 10 years ago, right, and that's always like my reference point, I don't know why, but 10 years ago, this magical time, whatever, yeah, 2014, yeah, yeah, seven and a half years ago, no, but like 10 years ago, like you were to say, mental health it would still not as popular as it is now.
• 3:58
  Laurin Conlin: Right, like now, like if I were talking to someone and I could say, hey, like I'm starting to notice some patterns or I'm starting to see X, y, z, and even just talking to people that I knew personally, right, having a therapist or going to therapy was not as common as it is now.
• 4:14
  Laurin Conlin: Now I work with people who have either had a coach or a therapist or both, usually, like before they even get to me, right, so, like, the space is just very different and so I don't think that it's not quite as stigmatized.
• 4:28
  Laurin Conlin: There are certainly certain populations where it is still more stigmatized than others.
• 4:33
  Laurin Conlin: I don't want to make a blanket statement like that, but what's also happened in my mind is that a lot of people are like mental health is important, and then the conversation stops Like, okay, yay, everybody's aware now that it's important, but we're now just saying these things that really don't really mean a lot, because there's not any action or any help.
• 4:50
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, what do we do?
• 4:50
  Philip Pape: about it yeah.
• 4:51
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, what are we going to do?
• 4:52
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, yay, we know it's important.
• 4:53
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, so now, what?
• 4:54
  Laurin Conlin: Now what starts?
• 4:55
  Laurin Conlin: What happens, you know, and that's really where I think not only the space in general needs to kind of pick that up, and therapists on the ground are certainly doing that right.
• 5:03
  Laurin Conlin: It's not like they're not, I just think in societal sense, you know, we need to also understand, like, yeah, going to therapy is actually a lot of work and it's really important and we need to give people that time to do that.
• 5:15
  Laurin Conlin: And really, why I started to go down this path was so, back in 2014, I started my December 2nd 2014.
• 5:22
  Laurin Conlin: Kidding, do your diary.
• 5:23
  Laurin Conlin: I started my master's with Dr Bill Campbell's lab at USF and I wanted to do research on how different types of diets affect weight loss and weight regain.
• 5:32
  Laurin Conlin: So I started looking at Because this was of personal interest to me as a coach and also as an athlete.
• 5:36
  Laurin Conlin: I was competing at the time and so I was like you know, I'm seeing these things with myself, seeing these things with the same clients what's going on.
• 5:41
  Laurin Conlin: This was also when ifom was very, very popular and starting to like really kick off, like in the space.
• 5:46
  Laurin Conlin: Also when instagram was really like taking off for like fitness culture.
• 5:50
  Laurin Conlin: So a lot of things were happening like all at once and it was absolutely one of those like right place, right time kind of moments.
• 5:55
  Laurin Conlin: And thankfully I had dr campbell who was so gracious to be like sure, you can run this whole study.
• 5:59
  Laurin Conlin: This sounds crazy, but go do it.
• 6:01
  Laurin Conlin: And so we did this 22-week study of a diet phase, of looking at a meal plan versus macros for a diet phase and then a post-diet follow-up, which was of utmost importance to me to look at does how we diet affect not just weight loss but weight regain?
• 6:16
  Laurin Conlin: Because I was seeing that most of the issues were coming not from a diet but from the post-diet period with individuals.
• 6:23
  Laurin Conlin: So we ran that study, we had some good findings and then really over the next few years I would say that I was able to continue to help people like learn about things, like tracking macros and being more flexible with that and kind of moving away from that like really really rigid mindset of like the meal plans and the really bad diet plans that were so rife that time, and especially with competitors.
• 6:46
  Laurin Conlin: And what was interesting was that not just competitors were being put on these plans but like people who were reaching out to these big teams, like I want to look like this person.
• 6:52
  Laurin Conlin: We're being put on the like three noodles and two prunes, you know meal plan bullshit.
• 6:57
  Laurin Conlin: And I'm like this person isn't competing.
• 6:59
  Laurin Conlin: You know what are they eating this?
• 7:01
  Laurin Conlin: So we were coming out of that field like that space.
• 7:05
  Laurin Conlin: But then things started to change and then I started to notice that people really started having issues Like tracking was no longer the issue.
• 7:13
  Laurin Conlin: They were able to understand that and do that.
• 7:15
  Laurin Conlin: They learned this new technique, but now they couldn't stop, or now they didn't know what to do when they couldn't.
• 7:20
  Laurin Conlin: Interesting, like well, this is really interesting because this is kind of the inverse of what I thought.
• 7:25
  Laurin Conlin: But wow, this actually looks a lot like what I thought was rigid dieting, but this is supposed to be flexible.
• 7:30
  Laurin Conlin: So then the whole construct kind of fell apart again and I was like all right, I need to start to figure out what is actually going on.
• 7:35
  Laurin Conlin: And that's when I really realized that how we view food has nothing to do with the actual plan.
• 7:40
  Laurin Conlin: It has to do with our mindset.
• 7:41
  Laurin Conlin: Right, some plans inherently do have more flexibility than others, but our mindset around said plan is really what is flexible or rigid.
• 7:51
  Laurin Conlin: And so this is kind of what really kicked off a lot of what I started to share in the space.
• 7:56
  Laurin Conlin: And again, this was at a time where now for a while, ifom was this kind of anti-movement to like the bro space, right, right, right, and really had to fight against all of that.
• 8:07
  Laurin Conlin: But then it kind of got assimilated and everybody was like, yeah, yeah, tracking macros is the answer for everybody.
• 8:12
  Laurin Conlin: Oh, my gosh.
• 8:13
  Laurin Conlin: And then it was like hold on, no, that's not appropriate for everybody.
• 8:16
  Laurin Conlin: You know what I mean.
• 8:17
  Laurin Conlin: And then I started getting pushback for talking about let's not do this, like, let's add in more flexibility.
• 8:22
  Laurin Conlin: And now it's like if you want to track anything now you have a disorder problem.
• 8:27
  Laurin Conlin: And it's like whoa, how, in the span of my 11 plus year career, have we seen all these evolutions?
• 8:32
  Laurin Conlin: And it really is truly crazy and what it ultimately is doing is that it's just really not taking into consideration where is the client and where is the individual?
• 8:41
  Laurin Conlin: How do we coach to them?
• 8:42
  Laurin Conlin: Because I can't sit here and say one client is better than the other.
• 8:45
  Laurin Conlin: It has to do with the client and where they're at.
• 8:48
  Laurin Conlin: And that's really what my study taught me and also just working with a ton of people has taught me, but I think that we really lack that nuance in the space, especially right now.
• 8:56
  Laurin Conlin: Good, oh my God, and it's just like horrible right now in the you know you mentioned, like the Instagram fitness culture, right?
• 9:02
  Laurin Conlin: I mean that has completely changed everything and just the way information is disseminated is so different and how people perceive things and the clickbait and what you know is being driven to do well on social media is just really making a mockery of what people actually need.
• 9:20
  Philip Pape: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there that I want to touch on.
• 9:22
  Philip Pape: First, you mentioned how the conversation has shifted and this is a really good time in history to really take it to that level you're talking about.
• 9:30
  Philip Pape: I was thinking we just watched the Olympics a short while ago the whole Simone Biles discussion about when she left in the last Olympics for mental health reasons, and even then it was a little bit taboo.
• 9:41
  Philip Pape: It was a little bit taboo.
• 9:45
  Philip Pape: And you go further back than that, right, and you look at anything from the 90s, for example, and you're like, wow, anything that's at all just getting into the realm of it's up here.
• 9:51
  Philip Pape: The issues up here is how was highly stigmatized, you know.
• 9:55
  Philip Pape: So that has shifted.
• 9:56
  Philip Pape: And then, like you said, the macros approach and the intuitive eating and it's like these camps whether you get down to the obvious camps like the keto versus bioenergetic versus this, none of those things are.
• 10:07
  Philip Pape: The problem is what you're saying, like how it's communicated might be, but let's, I guess let's help people understand why.
• 10:14
  Philip Pape: Like, what is the root cause going on here?
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: You said individualization.
• 10:18
  Philip Pape: We understand that.
• 10:19
  Philip Pape: That's almost like the, I'll say, maybe part of the solution.
• 10:23
  Philip Pape: How do we get back to understanding where this all comes from.
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: Maybe we could do it by looking at how someone has gone through a journey and has harmed their mental health in pursuit of like a physical or the perfect body.
• 10:35
  Laurin Conlin: Well, I think, first and foremost and this is not to fault any one person, because we all fall into this camp we want easy answers.
• 10:41
  Laurin Conlin: We want direct answers, right Like when we are dealing or struggling with a problem.
• 10:47
  Laurin Conlin: I have this issue, I want it solved.
• 10:49
  Laurin Conlin: Someone explains this to me in a way that seems really, really easy.
• 10:53
  Laurin Conlin: They don't maybe know that that sounds too good to be true.
• 10:55
  Laurin Conlin: It just sounds great.
• 10:56
  Laurin Conlin: So why would they not go for that?
• 10:59
  Laurin Conlin: When you hear a lot of people who are more science communicators oftentimes there's a lot of nuance they say they take 10 minutes to answer something.
• 11:06
  Laurin Conlin: They say a lot of words and everybody gets kind of annoyed by that, right.
• 11:09
  Laurin Conlin: And then you have people who come up and they say hey, eat this, don't eat that.
• 11:13
  Laurin Conlin: Oh, my gosh, simplifies it for me.
• 11:15
  Laurin Conlin: Well, that's too simple.
• 11:18
  Laurin Conlin: Now I'm not going to sit here and say that certain foods are not maybe better in larger quantities or smaller quantities than others.
• 11:26
  Laurin Conlin: Of course they are, but it's just not ever as simple as saying do this, don't do that, and what that ultimately does is then, you know, some person will say oh, this one thing is really bad, and that's where we get into those camp you said, like the keto camp or the vegan camp or the carnivore camp.
• 11:42
  Laurin Conlin: Then we get the camps and it's like then people are more confused than ever and they feel even farther away from their solution or their goal than ever.
• 11:50
  Laurin Conlin: And when people feel too far away from something, they're less likely to actually start to engage in it.
• 11:55
  Laurin Conlin: If the goal is too easy, people don't wanna engage because they're like this isn't really much different than what I have or what I'm doing, not really interested.
• 12:02
  Laurin Conlin: If it's too far away their goal pursuit, they just are not very interested in doing that because it feels so large and looming.
• 12:09
  Laurin Conlin: And that's not to say that we can't have large goals, but we need to have something that is hey, this is a little bit of a stretch for me right now, but it's not so far away from what I have that I can't foresee myself doing this.
• 12:20
  Laurin Conlin: That's the big picture.
• 12:21
  Laurin Conlin: But, like, how can I actually overcome this current hurdle and barrier right now?
• 12:25
  Laurin Conlin: Well, I think that, like, just largely, it's that human desire to have things be concrete and direct.
• 12:31
  Laurin Conlin: And I also think that it's just a byproduct currently of just like our society and our world we have so much information at all times that people are getting so overwhelmed and people are just tired.
• 12:41
  Laurin Conlin: Like, life is just hard.
• 12:42
  Laurin Conlin: There's a lot of things at us all the time.
• 12:44
  Laurin Conlin: People are busier than ever, and I don't think this is not a fault for anyone, right?
• 12:48
  Laurin Conlin: Like, I totally understand where people are coming from.
• 12:50
  Laurin Conlin: Like, I think of myself in other fields, right, financial stuff.
• 12:54
  Laurin Conlin: I don't love learning about that, not really my jam to understand that kind of stuff, right?
• 13:00
  Laurin Conlin: So if someone paints it really clearly and really easily for me, well, okay, that sounds pretty good to me, right, but then I have to go.
• 13:07
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, is that the right answer?
• 13:09
  Laurin Conlin: And thankfully, I have people in my life who help with that nuance, right, but not everybody has that.
• 13:14
  Laurin Conlin: So, when it comes to nutrition, when someone is trying to overcome a lifetime of, maybe, poor eating habits and poor mindset around food, they hear someone say, hey, don't eat oats, they're bad for you, but make sure that you eat all of this.
• 13:25
  Laurin Conlin: Oh, okay, well, I just won't eat oatmeal anymore.
• 13:28
  Laurin Conlin: Now, I'm healthy.
• 13:28
  Laurin Conlin: And it's not because they don't want to take the time to look into it, it's just because that's what's there and that's what seems right.
• 13:35
  Laurin Conlin: So that's where we get the confusion.
• 13:36
  Laurin Conlin: One person says oats are good, one person says oats are bad, another person says they're going to give you cancer, another person says eat in moderation.
• 13:43
  Laurin Conlin: And then you're like well, what is happening?
• 13:45
  Laurin Conlin: So I think that that's really where a lot of the current confusion is.
• 13:48
  Laurin Conlin: And then, in terms of like people's food and like their view and mental health, in terms of seeking kind of you know, different physiques, right, I think that there are, well to go, a lot of different ways.
• 14:01
  Laurin Conlin: So I'm like is there a specific direction you want me to go with that?
• 14:05
  Laurin Conlin: Do we want to talk, maybe on like competitors or lifestyle.
• 14:09
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you know what?
• 14:10
  Philip Pape: Why don't we do this?
• 14:11
  Philip Pape: Because you mentioned, people have a lifetime of eating habits and mindset around food and I'm like maybe we start there because a lot of this does start with your childhood and how you're raised and how I mean I think I've heard you talk about as young as eight years old having dieting, restricting with your food, and I have daughters that are 10 and 12.
• 14:30
  Philip Pape: And that's like a super important thing I need to be aware of.
• 14:32
  Philip Pape: My wife talks about when she was young, being shamed for, you know, being a little bit heavier at a certain age.
• 14:37
  Philip Pape: I mean, do you mind sharing maybe what you remember from that age personally, but also how common it is?
• 14:42
  Philip Pape: Is it for those behaviors to start that young and how that leads to this?
• 14:45
  Philip Pape: That where we are today?
• 14:47
  Laurin Conlin: For sure, and I don't want to overstep any, I guess, boundaries in terms of research, so I'm not super familiar with like ages and all that kind of things, like I don't want to say anything in that, but I'll share my experience and also, just, you know, working with a lot of families, especially moms, so I did start to have, you know, restrictive behaviors around eating very young, and this was not due to my parents.
• 15:08
  Laurin Conlin: They were not saying, oh, you're this, they were giving no supplemental messages to that.
• 15:12
  Laurin Conlin: So I want to make sure that that's clear.
• 15:13
  Laurin Conlin: They were not doing that, thankfully.
• 15:15
  Laurin Conlin: But it was one of these just internalized things that I felt that I was bigger than other people that were around me, which was actually false, which is the hilarious part of how our minds can work sometimes.
• 15:27
  Laurin Conlin: Right, I was probably an average size in comparison to my friend groups, but I only looked at the people who were smaller and said I'm bigger, so I need to be smaller, right?
• 15:34
  Laurin Conlin: You know how that works and it was just one of those things where I'm someone who is have a little bit more obsessive behaviors around things.
• 15:41
  Laurin Conlin: I get very hyper, fixated on things, and so it was a also kind of became a game of like, let me just eat less and oh, I got smaller.
• 15:48
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, cool, you know it's not a tape measure.
• 15:50
  Laurin Conlin: Oh, I got smaller.
• 15:51
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, let me try this again and let me do more.
• 15:54
  Laurin Conlin: And then let me add in like activity and let me just like run Cause I like running, cause I did like, let me run a lot and let me do a bunch of sit-ups.
• 16:01
  Laurin Conlin: Then it becomes like I can't leave the house until I do this many sit-ups.
• 16:04
  Laurin Conlin: I can't eat unless I have this many water bottles I can't like.
• 16:06
  Laurin Conlin: It became these weird rituals that I developed which is very common for a lot of people who struggle with this.
• 16:12
  Laurin Conlin: So it was kind of a combination of things for me and you know, at the time it was a few years that it got pretty bad.
• 16:21
  Laurin Conlin: But then you know, my family my family, you know went to dietitians, went to a therapist.
• 16:25
  Laurin Conlin: To be honest, I don't really remember a lot of those situations.
• 16:28
  Laurin Conlin: I can kind of have a vague memory of the lady's office, but I don't really remember, and just remember the one thing the dietitian was asking about, you know, fruits and vegetables that I eat and whatever.
• 16:36
  Laurin Conlin: And I remember telling her there was this yogurt that I would eat that, you know, and like the yogurts have, like the old yogurts had like the little pieces of fruit, I was like, yeah, I have that in there.
• 16:45
  Laurin Conlin: And she was like that doesn't count.
• 16:47
  Laurin Conlin: And I just remember that being like a funny thing.
• 16:49
  Laurin Conlin: But like now I like think back on but I just, I mean, I became so obsessed.
• 16:51
  Laurin Conlin: I still to this day know food labels, like I can't remember what I did yesterday, but I know food labels that I haven't eaten in years, you know.
• 16:58
  Laurin Conlin: So it just became this very interesting thing, thing for me and thankfully I was able to get help and move past that and view food in a healthy way.
• 17:06
  Laurin Conlin: But it was once I decided, hey, I want to do bodybuilding.
• 17:08
  Laurin Conlin: I was only a few years removed from being anorexic and also having this exercise kind of bullshit, which I wasn't necessarily diagnosed with but definitely qualified, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm not starving myself, I have to still have some muscles, I can't just not eat at all.
• 17:22
  Laurin Conlin: And everybody was like, okay, kind of a little worried, but it actually, you know, it definitely, more definitely had its periods, right, it's had its up and down moments, but it never restarted those, never restarted any kind of anorexic tendencies for me, thankfully.
• 17:37
  Laurin Conlin: But there are a lot of people who get into competitive physique sports who have had a history of eating disorders or disordered eating, I mean the.
• 17:44
  Laurin Conlin: The prevalence of that is, and I don't know the exact stat off the top of my head, but it is a very, very high number of individuals and it makes sense who's drawn to these types of things, right?
• 17:54
  Philip Pape: Is it because they're already doing it and or it just aligns with what they're doing, like to some extreme?
• 18:00
  Laurin Conlin: It kind of a lot of people and and the thing, eating disorders are tough because they are very misunderstood by a lot of people and it's really hard to really classify everyone and say everybody here, this who falls under, like this got it, there's nuance, like so, so tough, like why is someone dealing with this?
• 18:20
  Laurin Conlin: Right?
• 18:21
  Laurin Conlin: And I would say that in my experience and maybe this will change but at this current moment, september 20th, I truthfully believe that most eating disorders are stemming from non-food related issues and a lot of people are using food in a way, and for some people it is control, right.
• 18:40
  Laurin Conlin: You always hear oh, anorexics are, you know, they have a lot of control issues and they're perfectionists and they have all these tendencies.
• 18:45
  Laurin Conlin: There's another theory that it could be well.
• 18:48
  Laurin Conlin: They are also typically very conscientious and have a higher level of disgust, sensitivity and disgust towards themselves.
• 18:55
  Laurin Conlin: So a lot of times it's people who are really struggling internally, who don't know how to express that.
• 19:00
  Laurin Conlin: So they turn to controlling their own environment and just trying to get smaller and smaller and smaller.
• 19:05
  Laurin Conlin: And then you know there's also, of course, binge eating disorder and bulimia and a lot of times that is.
• 19:10
  Laurin Conlin: You know, I've worked with people who they've had that and you know they're working with me now not in an active phase by any means, but you know they are struggling with just emotions in general and they're using things like food and alcohol to cope, which then you're like, okay, well, is this now co-occurring with a substance issue?
• 19:26
  Laurin Conlin: For some people it is, other people it's not right.
• 19:28
  Laurin Conlin: So it's so complicated and right now the current strategies are some are good, but I have worked with many people who have gone to different clinics or different specialty programs and some of the stuff that I'm hearing.
• 19:40
  Laurin Conlin: I'm like, yeah, I really want to change this.
• 19:41
  Laurin Conlin: I'm really hoping I can actually get into that once I'm practicing to actually maybe help make some adjustments to that for sure.
• 19:51
  Laurin Conlin: But I would just say in general that people who are a little bit more extreme are drawn to body building, and people who, of course, have an extreme interest in what they look like and what they're eating or not eating are also drawn to body building.
• 20:01
  Laurin Conlin: I would say that it also draws on people who not all, and when people have worth issues or self-confidence issues, they decide to maybe do this and they think, oh, this would be great.
• 20:13
  Laurin Conlin: I'm really putting myself out there and challenging myself.
• 20:15
  Philip Pape: As a goal to hit as a drive-on, right.
• 20:18
  Laurin Conlin: I can't think of the worst thing to do and not to say that you shouldn't do it, but I'm very, very big on we need to be aware of what is happening, right.
• 20:30
  Laurin Conlin: The one thing that is really tragic about physique sports is that it often gets glamorized, especially in the bikini division and especially in the men's physique division, sometimes classic, but I would say you know, mostly those are kind of the divisions, right.
• 20:44
  Laurin Conlin: Most people are not waking up and saying, oh, I'm just gonna look like mr olympia, we're a female bodybuilder.
• 20:51
  Philip Pape: It's not accessible.
• 20:52
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah not really accessible to most people.
• 20:55
  Laurin Conlin: But oh, those bikini girls.
• 20:57
  Laurin Conlin: They look pretty normal, normal, whatever that means.
• 21:00
  Laurin Conlin: Right, try to use the language that people use.
• 21:01
  Laurin Conlin: It's not, and what has happened is that what looks to be like a normal size physique, what looks really glitzy and really glam and really fun, it has a lot of hormonal and metabolic and mental side effects.
• 21:18
  Laurin Conlin: And that does not mean that nobody should do it.
• 21:20
  Laurin Conlin: That does not mean that it's bodybuilding's fault.
• 21:21
  Laurin Conlin: I'm very big on that.
• 21:22
  Laurin Conlin: There's a lot of people who like to blame the physique world and the whole.
• 21:26
  Laurin Conlin: No, it's not.
• 21:27
  Laurin Conlin: It's just a byproduct of it.
• 21:29
  Laurin Conlin: And problem is you're dealing with a subjective judging for something that you've put a lot of objective time into improving, and what people think is that, oh well, I've worked really hard, I've been really hungry and I've been dedicated to this like I should do well.
• 21:46
  Laurin Conlin: There is no reason that you should do well because you don't know who else is showing up.
• 21:51
  Laurin Conlin: You don't know what other physiques are there.
• 21:53
  Laurin Conlin: It's not like, if I do this, I'm gonna get.
• 21:55
  Laurin Conlin: You know, I'm running this race and I'm gonna get faster.
• 21:58
  Laurin Conlin: Right, I got faster, I did better, yay, that's not how it works.
• 22:02
  Laurin Conlin: You could literally look significantly better your next season and place worse.
• 22:09
  Philip Pape: Yeah, depending on the competition and the judges.
• 22:10
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, so, and that is just.
• 22:13
  Laurin Conlin: I grew up riding horses and showing competitively, which was all subjective, very subjective.
• 22:19
  Laurin Conlin: Of course there are certain ground rules you know you have, just like bodybuilding, right, like there are certain things that they're looking for, but it's very subjective and I was accustomed to that, I think, from a young age, and so it's not that I didn't struggle with that bodybuilding, but I think I struggle a little less than other people because of that, because I knew, like this is just kind of how those sports go, but a lot of people get into it and they don't realize that.
• 22:43
  Laurin Conlin: And then what happens is there's always the next thing, right, it's this very strange thing that sucks you in, and I don't know all the exact mechanisms.
• 22:51
  Laurin Conlin: Obviously, dopamine isn't right here, of course.
• 22:53
  Laurin Conlin: It just kind of runs our life in general.
• 22:55
  Laurin Conlin: But basically you work really, really hard, you are really dieted down.
• 23:01
  Laurin Conlin: You've said no to a million things in your life.
• 23:04
  Laurin Conlin: You get down to it, and then you feel amazing, and then you don't play straight ball, you get overlooked, you barely even get noticed, and then you're like, oh my God, what do I do?
• 23:13
  Laurin Conlin: Should I do another show?
• 23:15
  Laurin Conlin: Another show seems like the answer, because there's always.
• 23:18
  Laurin Conlin: Well, you're just right there.
• 23:19
  Laurin Conlin: Right, there's always.
• 23:20
  Laurin Conlin: You just get a little leaner, just get a little of this.
• 23:22
  Laurin Conlin: There's always that.
• 23:24
  Laurin Conlin: So then what happens is people do another show and then becomes this much more narrow focus of like I have to compete and like do better.
• 23:30
  Laurin Conlin: And it's really, really tough to see that and I've seen it happen to people and it's really hard because, like anything in life, someone has to like recognize that that's what's happening and they have to want to not be doing those things right.
• 23:45
  Laurin Conlin: But you see a lot of people following that way and I would say that most of the time just becomes this kind of like hole that you almost like can't dig yourself out of, kind of like almost it's not like an addiction.
• 23:56
  Laurin Conlin: I don't want to say that it's like, oh, it's like an addiction, but you know it could be likened to that.
• 24:01
  Laurin Conlin: I would say it can follow along the lines of a behavioral addiction, almost right, and it's so niche that we're never, probably ever, going to get data on this, ever say, like what's actually going on, because there's way bigger fish to fry in the world and I know that, for you know, research and funding and all of that.
• 24:16
  Laurin Conlin: There's some people who do stuff like this.
• 24:17
  Laurin Conlin: You know, dr campbell, of course, focuses on physique enhancement.
• 24:20
  Laurin Conlin: You know, people like dr eric helms focus on things like that as well.
• 24:23
  Laurin Conlin: So there's a lot of people who are interested in these kinds of things.
• 24:26
  Laurin Conlin: But it is a very unique subset of things.
• 24:29
  Laurin Conlin: That happens because it's not just the physiological stuff, it's also the psychological stuff.
• 24:34
  Laurin Conlin: And then you have this.
• 24:35
  Laurin Conlin: There's always this like power differential, of like you're being judged by someone and you need to like improve and do better here, you know.
• 24:42
  Laurin Conlin: So there's always like I'm playing catch up, almost because I have to.
• 24:45
  Laurin Conlin: You know, like does that make sense?
• 24:46
  Laurin Conlin: It's really insidious for a lot of people, especially if they're not prepared.
• 24:51
  Laurin Conlin: And that's where it's when people who decide that they want to compete and they want to turn pro and they fully understand all this like I'm so in it, I'm going to push you as hard as you want.
• 25:00
  Laurin Conlin: But people are like yeah, I just want to do a bucket list thing, maybe do a show.
• 25:03
  Laurin Conlin: How about we just get pretty lean, lean and like maybe do a photo shoot, see how you feel before we like enter this like danger zone?
• 25:16
  Philip Pape: That's a totally different level of leanness.
• 25:17
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so I want to pull on that string.
• 25:18
  Philip Pape: I almost think of like three buckets of people.
• 25:20
  Philip Pape: You have those who are ready for it mentally ready it could be a lot of fun, really no concerns from your perspective.
• 25:26
  Philip Pape: Mental, you know, from a mental health perspective.
• 25:27
  Philip Pape: Then you have people like you said, or a casual maybe they also don't have any issues going on, but they're also not right for it because they're doing it for the wrong reasons.
• 25:36
  Philip Pape: And then you have people who are not ready for it.
• 25:37
  Philip Pape: Now, obviously, the scope of this show and the scope of my practice is not medical, dealing with eating disorders or any of that.
• 25:43
  Philip Pape: We're not trying to diagnose or help anybody with that specifically on this show.
• 25:47
  Philip Pape: But we do want people to be aware from a self-reflective perspective where they might fall on the spectrum.
• 25:53
  Philip Pape: And so you talked about something like informed consent for people who want to get into bodybuilding and physique sports to understand the risks.
• 26:02
  Philip Pape: Can we bucketize it that way and help people understand like, yes, if you're in this category, you could be ready, or if not, here's some warning or red flags.
• 26:10
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, I always just like to ask.
• 26:12
  Laurin Conlin: When I get a new client who wants to get on a call to work with me and they say that they're interested in competing, my first question is always right what is the reason that's?
• 26:21
  Philip Pape: a good first question for anything we pursue in life, isn't it yes?
• 26:26
  Laurin Conlin: And it's not to be judgmental, it's not to be any of those but I really need to understand what are the motivations behind you competing this year?
• 26:33
  Laurin Conlin: Right, and for some people they've never competed.
• 26:36
  Laurin Conlin: So that's really the main group that I'm trying to like understand, right, see if they really get a grasp of that.
• 26:41
  Laurin Conlin: Someone's competed before.
• 26:43
  Laurin Conlin: Generally they already, even if they've done one show, kind of have an idea, right.
• 26:46
  Laurin Conlin: But when someone's never done something and they've only to your term, probably, like Instagram fitness, they've only followed people on Instagram or YouTube and they've seen show day vlog and you know all this stuff.
• 26:56
  Laurin Conlin: And you see the top few Olympians, like they look great all year and that's what they're doing.
• 27:00
  Philip Pape: Like it's amazing, like especially bikini.
• 27:02
  Philip Pape: It's so sparkly and like, yeah, you're right, the glitz and glam, the lighting, everything yeah.
• 27:07
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, and for a handful of those top girls like that is their life and that's amazing, like I'm so happy for them, you know.
• 27:16
  Laurin Conlin: But we have to put into perspective that that's not most people and I think what's hard is that you brought up Simone Biles earlier.
• 27:23
  Laurin Conlin: I know there's not many adult gymnasts so maybe it's not a great example now, but most people don't watch the Olympics and are like I'm going to, I'm someone bios.
• 27:31
  Laurin Conlin: Most people aren't playing recreational basketball and they're like I'm going to join the NBA.
• 27:35
  Laurin Conlin: We kind of have these understandings that we're not going to do that most likely.
• 27:39
  Laurin Conlin: But with bodybuilding there's no barrier to entry.
• 27:42
  Laurin Conlin: Anybody can join as long as you could pay, and it's just like well, maybe I can and some people can.
• 27:49
  Laurin Conlin: That's the thing.
• 27:49
  Laurin Conlin: Some people can, some people.
• 27:51
  Laurin Conlin: I've worked with people who have literally trained weights for a few years, like lifted weights just for a few years, and you're like and you know they're older and you're like how do you have this physique?
• 27:59
  Laurin Conlin: Oh, my gosh, this is amazing.
• 27:59
  Laurin Conlin: You have all this potential.
• 28:01
  Laurin Conlin: You have the perfect structure.
• 28:02
  Laurin Conlin: You have all this.
• 28:03
  Laurin Conlin: No, you can't start at any point, but to have this like overly romanticized idea about it, like right now, you know I have posing clients that I work with too, who aren't necessarily my actual clients, and you know it's so common when you know we're practicing posing, you're just so tired, just like whatever.
• 28:25
  Laurin Conlin: And I was talking to my one girl and you know she's competed before so she knows what this feels like.
• 28:28
  Laurin Conlin: But she also has a business to run and I'm like, hey, just a reminder.
• 28:31
  Laurin Conlin: You were because I was like hey, are you gonna do another show or you're just doing this one.
• 28:34
  Laurin Conlin: She's like I don't know, just really really run down, like this is a reminder that this is, you're doing this for fun.
• 28:39
  Laurin Conlin: You're doing this as something as a learning experience.
• 28:41
  Laurin Conlin: You wanted to beat your last season, which you already have with your current physique, but you have other responsibilities.
• 28:46
  Laurin Conlin: So it's okay if you only want to do one show and remember that.
• 28:49
  Laurin Conlin: You know, and it's.
• 28:50
  Laurin Conlin: I think it's just an important conversation that we have with ourselves of how much is this impacting my life.
• 28:54
  Laurin Conlin: You know my career, my finances.
• 28:57
  Laurin Conlin: You know people I work with a lot of people who have kids.
• 28:59
  Laurin Conlin: You know like there's a lot of different factors that we have to like weave into this right, and how important are those?
• 29:04
  Laurin Conlin: So I would say what are the motivations behind the key to, and based on what someone says, I will kind of start to gear the conversation maybe in a different way, and especially for a new person.
• 29:15
  Laurin Conlin: Most new people and this is going to generalize, but majority of new clients are not going to have enough new to bodybuilding are not going to have enough muscle to compete.
• 29:24
  Laurin Conlin: They're just not.
• 29:25
  Laurin Conlin: That's important.
• 29:27
  Laurin Conlin: If you want to compete, we can get on stage, probably this time next year.
• 29:31
  Laurin Conlin: How does that sound?
• 29:32
  Laurin Conlin: They're like oh my God, what.
• 29:33
  Laurin Conlin: And I'm like yeah, you said you really wanted to do this.
• 29:37
  Laurin Conlin: How does that sound?
• 29:38
  Laurin Conlin: They're like well, I was told I could do it.
• 29:40
  Laurin Conlin: You know, 10 week prep or 12 week prep.
• 29:42
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, you could, we could diet down your current physique.
• 29:44
  Laurin Conlin: 12 weeks is it's probably not long enough, but we could.
• 29:47
  Laurin Conlin: And you're not going to have enough muscle and you're probably just going to get kind of thin and not really have the shape that you're looking for.
• 29:52
  Laurin Conlin: And to get that lean in 12 weeks we're going to have to do some stuff that probably isn't super great for you long-term and then you're going to probably be in a worse spot three months later after the show.
• 30:02
  Laurin Conlin: So if that's something that you want to do, I'm not the coach, but go ahead.
• 30:11
  Laurin Conlin: And that's always kind of that litmus test and I always say, hey, it could be less than a year, that would be amazing, but we need at least a few months to build and at least a few months to diet and realistically that's going to be about a year.
• 30:20
  Laurin Conlin: You know, unless someone has.
• 30:21
  Laurin Conlin: Maybe they've already competed and they've taken a bunch of time off and they've just kind of been like, you know, they've been on like maintenance mode, right, like I've even thought about maybe I'll compete next year.
• 30:28
  Laurin Conlin: I'm so crazy.
• 30:29
  Laurin Conlin: But yeah, back in school before I do my practicums, like why did I do this?
• 30:38
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, I'm like, well, I've been in maintenance mode for a long time, you know, and but I know that once I started actually training hard again, that's a different story.
• 30:43
  Laurin Conlin: You know what I mean.
• 30:43
  Laurin Conlin: It's not like I've not been doing this.
• 30:46
  Heather: Hello, my name is Heather and I am a client of Philip Pace.
• 30:49
  Heather: Just six days after I started this cut, my family and I were in a 7.9 magnitude earthquake here in Adana, turkey.
• 30:56
  Heather: As I tried to process the stress and trauma, my first instinct was to say, oh, you've been through something hard, this is not a good time.
• 31:04
  Heather: But instead I reached out to my coach and he got me under the bar that day and he helped me keep my macros that day, and not only did I realize that I was doing something fantastic for my body, but I realized that I was doing something fantastic for my mind and that it was going to help me keep the mental clarity that I was going to need to get my family through what really has been a very difficult two months.
• 31:25
  Heather: Here I am on the other side of eight weeks, got my kids through all the things that we have been through, and I weigh 12 pounds less than I did, and I got a new PR on my bench press.
• 31:36
  Heather: I have a long way to go and there are still things that I really want to accomplish, but now I know that I can and I'm really grateful.
• 31:43
  Heather: Thank you, philip no-transcript.
• 32:20
  Philip Pape: Listeners listen closely.
• 32:21
  Philip Pape: That's most people listening probably.
• 32:23
  Laurin Conlin: It's most people.
• 32:24
  Laurin Conlin: I rarely at this point and it's probably also like at this point.
• 32:26
  Laurin Conlin: Like I, you know, I'm getting older, so the people who I work with are also getting older too.
• 32:31
  Laurin Conlin: I don't really usually have people who are like 18 reaching out to me to work with me.
• 32:34
  Laurin Conlin: Not really like my target demo, you know anymore.
• 32:36
  Laurin Conlin: So when I'm working with you know a 45 year old mom she has in that case, had kids, so possibly had kids has most likely been through multiple diets, if not years and years of dieting.
• 32:49
  Laurin Conlin: May or may not have competed right.
• 32:51
  Laurin Conlin: So we have all of these different things coming at us in terms of we have the previous experiences and mindsets from, maybe, coaches that they've had plans that they've followed and then also just like their own perceptions too, and then everything else.
• 33:03
  Laurin Conlin: So we can't just say like, yeah, you're going to be ready for 12 weeks and you would think that that kind of stuff would go away, but it hasn't, because there's still people who like prey on that and they're like, no, I can get you ready.
• 33:14
  Laurin Conlin: And then again people's perceptions and they have there are a lot of coaches that prey on that.
• 33:18
  Laurin Conlin: I can't stand people who just haven't, haven't really seen.
• 33:21
  Laurin Conlin: I'm like actually just go to a show and also this is another part and a half people who've never competed and I'm like no-transcript.
• 33:51
  Laurin Conlin: Think, if people are interested in this kind of thing, that we have to really understand their motivations and we have to understand are they willing to look at the big picture?
• 33:58
  Laurin Conlin: Because I'm not interested at this point to work with people.
• 34:02
  Laurin Conlin: If they're going to come out of working with me and be worse, like that is like, of course, opposite of my.
• 34:09
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't matter to me if I never work with someone again for a pro card or this.
• 34:14
  Laurin Conlin: That's an added amazing bonus.
• 34:16
  Laurin Conlin: Yay, but that's never my goal or my intention.
• 34:19
  Laurin Conlin: How can I leave someone better?
• 34:21
  Laurin Conlin: And that doesn't mean that competing is ever easy.
• 34:24
  Laurin Conlin: So I do want to make sure that that's clear.
• 34:25
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't matter how great the approach is, whether it's me or any of the other coaches that I know who are fantastic at this.
• 34:29
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't matter how great the approach is, whether it's me or any of the other coaches that I know who are fantastic at this.
• 34:32
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't make the process any easier.
• 34:34
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't make the physiological adaptations any easier.
• 34:37
  Laurin Conlin: It doesn't make the psychological adaptations easier.
• 34:39
  Laurin Conlin: It might make it a little better, but it's still just going to be really hard.
• 34:42
  Laurin Conlin: You can have the best coach in the world and, as a female, if you're getting a 10% body fat, you're not going to feel okay.
• 34:49
  Laurin Conlin: Things are going to get a little weird for a little while.
• 34:52
  Laurin Conlin: Right, just how it's going to happen.
• 34:54
  Laurin Conlin: But how are we keeping someone in this for too long?
• 34:59
  Laurin Conlin: Are we not paying attention to, maybe, some of the signs and symptoms that they are falling into a not so great place?
• 35:05
  Laurin Conlin: Right, either mentally or physically?
• 35:06
  Laurin Conlin: Like, do we need to pull out of prep?
• 35:08
  Laurin Conlin: Like, there's a lot of different things here that I think some coaches are not focusing on.
• 35:13
  Laurin Conlin: Thankfully, there are so many amazing coaches now who are interested in this kind of stuff, and I mean, I know so many of them.
• 35:19
  Laurin Conlin: So it's like there is just a plethora of not great practices that are happening.
• 35:23
  Laurin Conlin: And then, of course, add in, you know, peds, if someone wants to do that which, again, totally like, that is your choice, your perspective, but it can be very, very short sighted for some people.
• 35:33
  Laurin Conlin: I think that if someone wants to do that, my personal opinion would be try to do this, naturally, at least for a season, or at least for some period of time to see what you can actually do.
• 35:46
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I think that's great.
• 35:47
  Philip Pape: Put on the training wheels right and just try to get lean in general and don't worry about all the specific stuff, which is a whole extra layer.
• 35:53
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:54
  Laurin Conlin: Let's not even dabble in that, because you might find that you did a show and you're like I never want to do this ever again, and this is so like just not in congruency with my life.
• 36:03
  Laurin Conlin: And now you've realized that, like you've taken all of these drugs that could have long-term side effects that people don't like to talk about and I'm not an expert in that, so I'm not going to speak on it, but I do know that there are many things that people take that can affect one long-term.
• 36:18
  Laurin Conlin: So it's not just like an easy thing to be like, yeah, well, I'm just going to just add that into it.
• 36:22
  Laurin Conlin: It'll make it easier, yes, in the short term, but you really need to know am I doing this for the long term?
• 36:28
  Laurin Conlin: If I'm working with a client who has been doing this for several years and they want to then add that in, that is their prerogative, that's their decision.
• 36:36
  Laurin Conlin: This is not a quick rush to do something like that, and I think that it's really important to also have that discussion with people.
• 36:42
  Laurin Conlin: But it's kind of this.
• 36:43
  Laurin Conlin: You know, I think we've made huge strides in the space, but there is still that mindset of like, oh, if you're doing a bodybuilding show like you just have to take drugs and diet, you know, and eat boiled chicken.
• 36:53
  Laurin Conlin: It's like no, that's through the whole other world.
• 36:58
  Philip Pape: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I guess people listening I don't know how many are interested in competing, but a lot of what you're talking about and the principles apply anyway universally.
• 37:08
  Philip Pape: I mean one thing you mentioned just kind of quickly, but it is important and we love talking about it here is spending some time building muscle first, no matter what, and the vast majority of my female clients I don't do shows or anything, I don't have that experience I gently try to nudge them toward, you know, their own realization that they might really enjoy the process of adding muscle.
• 37:28
  Philip Pape: And, by the way, you know, look at somebody like Lauren Collins, super strong, you know or Steph Gaudreau, or you know all these in the space you feel great, you eat a lot, right, there's so many like positives, and then it gives you a better base to go from that and then be a very informed like we talked about informed consent, but that could simply be even just lifestyle, lean kind of.
• 37:45
  Philip Pape: Look at the process that's involved.
• 37:47
  Philip Pape: And, like you said, there's a dieting piece, right, there's a fat loss phase here at some point.
• 37:51
  Philip Pape: And so, if we want to then segue into the mental side of like, where's that line between food awareness and food obsession?
• 37:59
  Philip Pape: Because you and I, either on the first, second attempt or this attempt at recording this podcast early on, so I don't know if the listener heard this.
• 38:06
  Philip Pape: You were kind of talking about that spectrum and the history of like.
• 38:09
  Philip Pape: If it fits your macros to where we are today, we don't have to repeat all that, but basically like, where's that line so that we can have a healthier relationship with food, especially with the history that many people have?
• 38:20
  Laurin Conlin: I think it was second one, but I'm not sure I know either way, currently there is this new trend I would say it not new, but newer where, again, this is not everybody in the space, but there is a handful of people in the space who are basically saying that if you're tracking any of your food, that it's disorder.
• 38:39
  Laurin Conlin: Having any kind of physique related goals is disordered in nature and essentially it seems to me like it's the intuitive eating and health at every size.
• 38:49
  Laurin Conlin: Movement has degenerated, not for everybody, but for some individuals, and how they're sharing their message.
• 38:54
  Laurin Conlin: They're saying you know, this is a disorder, this is bad for you.
• 38:57
  Laurin Conlin: You should just be able to eat whatever you want and really just honor that and this and that.
• 39:01
  Laurin Conlin: And my biggest beef with this is that Pun intended, sorry.
• 39:07
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, my biggest beef with this is that most of the people that I've seen sharing these messages the irony is not lost on me that they all have years and years and years of experience tracking their food and being aware of their food and anyone who has ever gone through a period of tracking food.
• 39:26
  Laurin Conlin: I'm not even talking about weighing it out, I'm just talking about anything like any awareness of food that sticks with you.
• 39:31
  Laurin Conlin: You don't lose that right.
• 39:33
  Laurin Conlin: So it's not lost on me that a lot of the people who have all this knowledge are now the ones saying just don't do this at all, but that's really unfair to the person who.
• 39:44
  Laurin Conlin: Taking it all the way back to the beginning of this episode, these habits and behaviors start early in our life, right, I didn't grow up, I grew up with, clearly, an eating disorder, so my experience was a little different than most people.
• 39:56
  Laurin Conlin: But let's take the example of someone who grows up in a family who doesn't know about the constituents of healthy eating.
• 40:03
  Laurin Conlin: They're relying on fast food and convenience foods, and that is how they grew up.
• 40:08
  Laurin Conlin: That is all that they know, right?
• 40:10
  Laurin Conlin: So for them to try to overcome those habits and behaviors, they're going to have to learn quite a bit of knowledge around food and what's in that and portions, and so for us to just say to that person you know, just eat whatever you want, just eat what makes you feel good, is really harmful messaging, in my opinion.
• 40:31
  Laurin Conlin: Do I think that everybody can get to a space where they're intuitive?
• 40:35
  Laurin Conlin: I call it intuitive-ish.
• 40:36
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, I like that Intuitive-ish.
• 40:38
  Laurin Conlin: I think that that is absolutely appropriate for most people.
• 40:43
  Laurin Conlin: I am not sitting here tracking my macros.
• 40:45
  Laurin Conlin: There's no point in me doing that now right For my life, my goals?
• 40:49
  Laurin Conlin: I don't do that.
• 40:50
  Laurin Conlin: But, as we've discussed for the past, since I was eight years old, I've had an awareness of what's in food.
• 40:55
  Laurin Conlin: I haven't lost that.
• 40:56
  Laurin Conlin: I still meal prep, I still portion foods out.
• 40:58
  Laurin Conlin: I still know wow, I was kind of low on this today.
• 41:00
  Laurin Conlin: Maybe I should have a protein shake.
• 41:01
  Laurin Conlin: Wow, I missed this meal.
• 41:03
  Laurin Conlin: It's just, and it's not an obsession, it's just a it's awareness.
• 41:06
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, this is awareness of what is allowing me to be a healthy, optimal, functioning person.
• 41:10
  Laurin Conlin: Right and physique aside, health.
• 41:13
  Laurin Conlin: Eating certain ways influences our health directly.
• 41:17
  Laurin Conlin: Like there's like, no, there's quite literally zero debate on that.
• 41:21
  Laurin Conlin: So I think there's a lot of principles about intuitive eating that I appreciate and that I like, but I think that a lot of people in the social media space have created this conversation around diets don't work.
• 41:33
  Laurin Conlin: That's my favorite one.
• 41:34
  Laurin Conlin: Intentional weight loss doesn't work, not true?
• 41:36
  Philip Pape: Energy balance doesn't work.
• 41:38
  Philip Pape: Calories in, calories out doesn't work.
• 41:39
  Philip Pape: Intentional dieting works.
• 41:43
  Laurin Conlin: What didn't work was how that diet was approached and what we did before that diet and what we did after that diet.
• 41:49
  Laurin Conlin: So that's what we need to change.
• 41:50
  Laurin Conlin: It's not that calorie deficits are really bad for us.
• 41:53
  Laurin Conlin: It's that, and actually quite the contrary.
• 41:55
  Laurin Conlin: But that's a whole different segment, so I'm not going to get into that.
• 41:57
  Philip Pape: And whether the diet's even the diet for you.
• 41:59
  Philip Pape: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:01
  Laurin Conlin: So all diets are bad.
• 42:03
  Laurin Conlin: Any tracking and it's so funny because at the start of my career it was okay, oh, like, were you know any kind of flexibility with diets and food choices was looked at like a monster, like, oh my gosh, like going against the bro diets and you know all of the books that you have, all the diets that everybody you know, magazines, all that kind of stuff, right, like having any kind of flexibility, you can eat whatever you want, just measure it out.
• 42:26
  Laurin Conlin: That was like this whole big thing and then, like we talked about kind of in the beginning, then I started to realize, well, that actually kind of does have some of the problems, not because of the diet, but because of people's mindset around it.
• 42:36
  Laurin Conlin: And then now we're at this weird space too.
• 42:38
  Laurin Conlin: So I feel like it's just like it's continued to and I think that it's just a byproduct of social media and how we said.
• 42:45
  Laurin Conlin: You know, I think a lot of times people want quick answers, so we want things that are very concrete.
• 42:50
  Laurin Conlin: This is good, this is bad.
• 42:52
  Laurin Conlin: It rarely is that what is helpful.
• 42:54
  Laurin Conlin: So food awareness, I think, is something that is incredibly important, and this again is irrespective of your physique goals, obviously, if you're more specific physique goals, you need more good awareness.
• 43:06
  Laurin Conlin: That's pretty obvious.
• 43:07
  Laurin Conlin: But I think that even just having a healthy body and focusing on our health and longevity, having food awareness is incredibly important for that as well.
• 43:18
  Laurin Conlin: So all of those things Now, food obsession can certainly happen.
• 43:22
  Laurin Conlin: And why does that happen?
• 43:23
  Laurin Conlin: Kind of alluded to and this is again not just categorized, diagnosed eating disorders, because a lot more people fall into disordered eating, which is kind of this big broad umbrella term.
• 43:33
  Laurin Conlin: It's kind of like when you have stomach pain, you go to the doctor like you have IBS and you're like thanks, appreciate it.
• 43:37
  Laurin Conlin: Or with women, they're like we don't really know.
• 43:39
  Laurin Conlin: Hey, you're like cool, that really didn't help at all.
• 43:44
  Laurin Conlin: So, and also, you're too young for it to be hormones.
• 43:50
  Laurin Conlin: Sorry, yeah, oh no, you look fine.
• 43:50
  Laurin Conlin: Why do you get your?
• 43:51
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, yeah, that's totally how it works, right, but so with see, now I got you, I'm trying.
• 43:58
  Philip Pape: No, no, it's okay yeah, with disordered eating.
• 44:02
  Laurin Conlin: What does that mean it?
• 44:02
  Laurin Conlin: Right, like I don't even know if anybody has it a perfect characterization of what that is, but let's just say food obsession, right.
• 44:09
  Laurin Conlin: And the common thing that I see with clients so we'll speak on that is when people who have learned about tracking macros and have really been able to integrate that now no longer can not track, right, they feel like everything falls apart.
• 44:24
  Laurin Conlin: When they can't, they're dependent on it.
• 44:25
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, everything falls apart.
• 44:26
  Laurin Conlin: When they can't, they're dependent on it.
• 44:27
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, okay, they become dependent on the three numbers and not the food.
• 44:30
  Laurin Conlin: And this is really where I started to see some of the issues, because I'm like, okay, this doesn't make sense.
• 44:35
  Laurin Conlin: The people who have allegedly the most food experience right, because they've been weighing their foods, they've been doing all this stuff they should be able to now eyeball these things pretty easily.
• 44:42
  Laurin Conlin: Why is this not happening?
• 44:52
  Laurin Conlin: And there is this connection for a multitude of reasons.
• 44:53
  Laurin Conlin: It could be a control thing, it could be.
• 44:54
  Laurin Conlin: Everything in my life is like falling apart.
• 44:55
  Laurin Conlin: I just really want to be able to focus on this, or it becomes something just don't trust themselves, right, maybe they were overweight before and finally they found something that like makes them feel good and they're like I want to stick to this, like I want to clutch to this so tightly.
• 45:03
  Laurin Conlin: I never want to go back to where I was before I can understand that.
• 45:07
  Laurin Conlin: Right, there's also just people who just like their personality, right, they're very whether it's okay or conscientious, or meticulous, like they, just that suits them.
• 45:15
  Laurin Conlin: So for me to tell someone who's very, very numbers based, yeah, we'll just like, eat whatever you want.
• 45:21
  Laurin Conlin: They're like meltdown ensues, like what is happening.
• 45:24
  Laurin Conlin: So again, that's where we have to say what are personality traits.
• 45:27
  Laurin Conlin: But then also it could just be like an emotional reaction, right, like I am trying to suppress other emotions, so I'm using you know, now I'm having these issues with food and it's not just a tracking thing.
• 45:36
  Laurin Conlin: This could also now be like food obsessions could be, you know, insert x, food right.
• 45:42
  Laurin Conlin: Or just always constantly having this food noise, or always wanting something new, or feeling like they have to snack, like whenever someone says I feel like I have to do this, I have to do X you know right, and maybe even it goes beyond.
• 45:52
  Philip Pape: Food is almost what you're implying, and it's not the food, yeah.
• 45:56
  Laurin Conlin: It's never really like the food.
• 45:57
  Laurin Conlin: Well, once this happens, then everything kind of falls apart.
• 46:00
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, well, food is the outcome, but that's not really the driving factor and you driving factor.
• 46:11
  Laurin Conlin: And I will say that as coaches, it's not necessarily our goal to figure those things out.
• 46:13
  Laurin Conlin: We can help highlight that for clients because that work needs to be done anyway.
• 46:15
  Laurin Conlin: That needs to become conscious for people.
• 46:18
  Laurin Conlin: A lot of times food issues are subconscious For most individuals.
• 46:22
  Laurin Conlin: They've operated with that for so long and they have no reason.
• 46:25
  Laurin Conlin: They're not really thinking about why that's happening until they really really reflect on it.
• 46:29
  Laurin Conlin: And then they're like wow, okay, because of this one situation, like for a whole life.
• 46:34
  Laurin Conlin: This is how I've viewed things.
• 46:35
  Laurin Conlin: Or you know another really common one when people go to events and they're not able to like say no to certain foods, right, it's really easy to be like, just say no.
• 46:45
  Laurin Conlin: What's so hard about that?
• 46:46
  Laurin Conlin: And I definitely took that stance for a really long time Like just develop the skills to like say no, and for some people that is appropriate.
• 46:53
  Laurin Conlin: That is what they need, because they've never done that before and they need to learn.
• 46:56
  Philip Pape: Yes, a strategy to process and move forward.
• 46:58
  Philip Pape: Yes, not even necessarily need to unravel the root cause in that context.
• 47:03
  Philip Pape: Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't do.
• 47:08
  Laurin Conlin: Sometimes you don't, yep, and then other people there's a lot more there as to why that's happening, right, and then.
• 47:11
  Laurin Conlin: So that's where we again have to say, okay, maybe.
• 47:12
  Laurin Conlin: Hey, now I'm going into territory where this isn't necessarily like my scope any longer, right, and I often get this question because I do talk about mental health.
• 47:21
  Laurin Conlin: You know quite a bit.
• 47:22
  Laurin Conlin: I have for several years.
• 47:23
  Laurin Conlin: A lot of coaches are like well, how do I know, or am I always going to know?
• 47:26
  Laurin Conlin: You don't always know right away, right, if you are working with someone, you might not know and they might not know either, right.
• 47:32
  Laurin Conlin: And then also things change.
• 47:34
  Laurin Conlin: Things change people's lives, where then events happen.
• 47:36
  Laurin Conlin: And then they're like oh my gosh, now this got uncovered and I didn't even know this was here and now, because of this event, then this happened and now we're dealing with this thing, right, so coaching is very dynamic and that's why I think it's so frustrating that people try to make it so straightforward.
• 47:52
  Laurin Conlin: It's oversimplify, yep, yep, yeah.
• 47:55
  Laurin Conlin: And it's like why are we trying to oversimplify something that is complicated and doesn't need to be complicated, because we're trying to confuse people, but it needs to be complicated so that we are taking in the entire person and what is going on in their life and really take a holistic approach.
• 48:09
  Laurin Conlin: I know that word misused sometimes, so I'm like I need a better word, but I think it's coming around in a more positive light again, so I'm going to stick with it.
• 48:18
  Laurin Conlin: So people can develop food obsessions for a lot of different reasons and I think, as someone who you know say, if any coach is listening right, you're going to want to start to look for changes in language around some of the things that they're sharing with you.
• 48:32
  Laurin Conlin: That's usually my first indicator is, and that you know that starts with you need to make sure you're asking the right questions, you know, to your clients.
• 48:39
  Laurin Conlin: But then if you start to notice that they're maybe sharing some language that isn't normal, or they're just sharing, they're really carping on certain things.
• 48:47
  Laurin Conlin: They're like they brought this up like three times in the past two weeks Like that's not normal for them.
• 48:53
  Laurin Conlin: You know, because if someone has an off week, you don't need to jump on their throat.
• 48:55
  Laurin Conlin: Do you have an eating disorder?
• 48:56
  Laurin Conlin: Like you know, we don't need to like over catastrophize either, right?
• 48:58
  Laurin Conlin: So sometimes it's like, hey, somebody had an off week just not feeling it, or this is coming on, but I take it out of it After a few weeks kind of been seeing this trend.
• 49:07
  Laurin Conlin: Just want to put that out there.
• 49:08
  Laurin Conlin: How are you feeling about it?
• 49:09
  Laurin Conlin: Do you notice this Right?
• 49:11
  Laurin Conlin: One of my favorite things to do with clients and sometimes I like this, sometimes I don't is I need you to reflect on X, y, z and then get back to me next week with your responses, right, yeah, yeah On the head.
• 49:24
  Philip Pape: It resonated with that so hard.
• 49:26
  Laurin Conlin: And because I'm not going to put words in your mouth because I really don't know what's going on.
• 49:29
  Laurin Conlin: You know yourself better than the coach does.
• 49:31
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, and this is where you know some people don't like that coaching approach.
• 49:35
  Laurin Conlin: Other people do.
• 49:36
  Laurin Conlin: I feel like it is the best for the long-term change, and not just the coaches, I mean, the clients don't like that.
• 49:42
  Laurin Conlin: Just tell them what I will gotta do the tape.
• 49:54
  Laurin Conlin: So sometimes I'll be like, hey, yeah, these are some things we gotta do.
• 49:55
  Laurin Conlin: There's some things we gotta not do.
• 49:56
  Laurin Conlin: This is something that I don't know currently.
• 49:56
  Laurin Conlin: Like I use that example of you know, like a holiday, like you know a day off and you know party or whatever and this food, and I just you know I couldn't stay on traffic.
• 50:01
  Laurin Conlin: And then I'm just like, well, that could be 57 different things.
• 50:03
  Laurin Conlin: I'm getting a little feedback from you as to eternally why that happened, right.
• 50:09
  Laurin Conlin: And then you know, usually when people do that, they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize, like what.
• 50:14
  Laurin Conlin: I really sat down and thought about it.
• 50:15
  Laurin Conlin: Like I really didn't even realize, like this is actually what that was.
• 50:18
  Laurin Conlin: And it's not always going to be that easy, right, sometimes it's going to be like months of trying to figure that out with a client Especially if there are multiple triggers, you know that they're sensitive to.
• 50:27
  Laurin Conlin: Exactly.
• 50:28
  Laurin Conlin: And again, people have a lot of shit going on, so it's not like everybody.
• 50:30
  Laurin Conlin: It's just, like you know, we're not working with clients who generally have like ample time to be sitting around and doing this, but this is really important work and that's how we always tie it back Like listen, I don't want you to keep falling into these patterns.
• 50:41
  Laurin Conlin: So we need to start to look at this and for anyone anyone listening, who's not a coach, who's just doing this on their own and they're like well, maybe I feel like I'm kind of being pulled towards that that's where just any kind of reflective exercise is so important and anytime you kind of notice something you know be like okay, well, that was maybe not characteristic of me, right?
• 51:00
  Laurin Conlin: I haven't done that before I didn't act like that.
• 51:01
  Laurin Conlin: Just take note of it.
• 51:02
  Laurin Conlin: That happens again.
• 51:03
  Laurin Conlin: Okay, let me kind of reflect, you know, on this and that's why I just I'm really big on reflective practices and I don't think that even I think a lot of times people think you need to sit down and have a whole reason.
• 51:12
  Laurin Conlin: You're going to journal or do a whole thing.
• 51:14
  Laurin Conlin: Sometimes, if you do it consistently, the things will come up, I promise.
• 51:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and I want to interject because you continue to hit on the self-awareness piece and that's like if anybody who knows about emotional intelligence, which is something I got into 20 or so years ago I'm old now but in my career, as I was trying to manage other people and I'm like I don't really even get people because I don't get myself and one of the first exercises is figure out who you are and what you're saying is just awareness, whether it's food, your behavior, a trigger why you want to do this physique competition sit down for two minutes with a piece of paper and just write it down can be game changing.
• 51:53
  Laurin Conlin: So I love that.
• 51:54
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 51:55
  Laurin Conlin: It's so simple it seems like it wouldn't help.
• 51:57
  Laurin Conlin: You know, and we touched on a little bit and I said, sometimes when goals are too similar to what you're already doing, people don't want to do them.
• 52:04
  Laurin Conlin: So they think like, what is the two or five minute journal session gonna do for me?
• 52:08
  Laurin Conlin: Like that doesn't seem like it's gonna highlight much promise.
• 52:11
  Laurin Conlin: If you do it consistently, it will really really start to like some of the hardest times in my life when I was navigating a lot of like personal growth and changes, I was journaling a lot and it was really the first time that I like dedicated to doing it and I mean it helped so much because you just start to see these patterns.
• 52:29
  Laurin Conlin: And that is really where a good coach can help step in and kind of be that intermediary right, because as a coach I'm going to be able to bring those things to your awareness that you maybe wouldn't have seen.
• 52:39
  Laurin Conlin: And then you know we can kind of say like, oh, okay, now I notice.
• 52:45
  Laurin Conlin: I notice every Thursday we kind of have an issue what's going on either Wednesday or Thursday that maybe is causing this right when someone could just be on autopilot and not realize that every Thursday shit goes awry.
• 52:57
  Philip Pape: So that's where having someone in your life can really really help, as that kind of outside influence, Absolutely amplifies it and it gives you that extra support around you to kind of flex into that.
• 53:06
  Philip Pape: It's funny that you mentioned journal and that's a trigger word for me, because I've always said that like I'm not a big journaler, right, and I've had clients that are like, don't tell me to journal, Are you telling me to journal?
• 53:15
  Philip Pape: I'm like no, no, we're not going to journal.
• 53:16
  Philip Pape: What I want you to do is log a note in your food log, in your workout log.
• 53:21
  Philip Pape: I want you to write a note and it's like, oh cool, Okay, I'll do that Language is everything, because every word has a connotation.
• 53:29
  Laurin Conlin: You know you could tell like me journaling.
• 53:31
  Laurin Conlin: I'm like, oh my God, I love journaling, yeah, I'll tell someone else journaling.
• 53:33
  Laurin Conlin: And they're like, yeah, not for me.
• 53:35
  Laurin Conlin: That was me with meditation a few years ago.
• 53:37
  Laurin Conlin: I was like so convinced I was like I'm not a meditator, it's woo, it's clearly I'm a little over the place, right, and that's just my natural state and I accepted that about myself and it's super fine, it is a strength in some areas.
• 53:50
  Laurin Conlin: But I was like I'm never gonna meditate.
• 53:52
  Laurin Conlin: You know, I can't sit still, I can't sit at all this stuff.
• 53:54
  Laurin Conlin: And that was the reason I couldn't do.
• 53:57
  Laurin Conlin: It was because I convinced myself otherwise.
• 53:59
  Laurin Conlin: And then finally I got tired of my own shit and I was like you know what, I'm gonna try.
• 54:02
  Laurin Conlin: This seems like a lot of people who have their shit together like to meditate and it works pretty well for them.
• 54:08
  Laurin Conlin: So maybe they're onto something.
• 54:09
  Laurin Conlin: So let me check it out.
• 54:10
  Laurin Conlin: And I eventually started to really dedicate more to it and have been able to get a lot out of it.
• 54:16
  Laurin Conlin: But it is so funny because for years I was just like no no, no, yeah, it's just.
• 54:20
  Philip Pape: Sometimes it's just a hard thing you've got to do, you know.
• 54:22
  Philip Pape: You just got to choose to do it and then try it.
• 54:24
  Philip Pape: I know we're short on time because of our three times a charm recording, but what I want to end with is you're going for this master's in clinical mental health counseling.
• 54:33
  Philip Pape: You just gave people some actionable things to try and hopefully open people's mind to realize there is a lot of flexibility, even when we say flexible dieting.
• 54:42
  Philip Pape: Alan Aragon was on the show and his definition was your approach is flexible.
• 54:46
  Philip Pape: That's what I mean.
• 54:46
  Philip Pape: He doesn't mean just if it fits your macros.
• 54:48
  Philip Pape: Dr Eric Helms was on and he's like I don't track anymore, but I tracked for 20 years, so you adapt.
• 54:55
  Philip Pape: How do you see in helping people in the future in a way that maybe a lot of fitness coaches like you are not doing, and that's why you're going after this degree.
• 55:04
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah.
• 55:04
  Laurin Conlin: So I pretty much realized that I could get people up to a certain point and then I no longer have the skills to do that.
• 55:10
  Laurin Conlin: I don't have the training, I don't have the licensure and I know that there's a lot of people who operate in a world where they don't care about those things, but I do.
• 55:17
  Laurin Conlin: It's important to me, and especially when people are talking about very, very intensive things like currently anybody is allowed to share anything with me.
• 55:25
  Laurin Conlin: That's on them.
• 55:26
  Laurin Conlin: I'm not trying to extract that information right, they're just shit.
• 55:29
  Laurin Conlin: But when we start to unravel and really hit the wall of like, oh okay, I have these eating behaviors because of this, you know, childhood trauma and this assault in these different situations, I don't have the tools currently to do that.
• 55:43
  Laurin Conlin: And not to say that I need to do that for every client, because I don't.
• 55:46
  Laurin Conlin: But I just have a very deep interest in this and I just felt like there was a way that I could really help bridge both of the worlds, because in the mental health world it's becoming more.
• 55:57
  Laurin Conlin: You know, people are, of course, focusing on health behaviors, but it's not really taught to most.
• 56:02
  Laurin Conlin: I mean, honestly, our coursework is very full.
• 56:05
  Laurin Conlin: I don't know Like I mean just the master program alone is so intensive, like in terms of hours and like coursework and practical hours.
• 56:13
  Laurin Conlin: So it's not to say that it was the fault, like we need to add in some nutrition classes, like if it's not relevant, right?
• 56:18
  Laurin Conlin: But there's a lot of people in that space who aren't talking about that.
• 56:21
  Laurin Conlin: Just like in health and fitness space, more people are talking about mental health, but are they actually able to help clients fully integrate in that way?
• 56:29
  Laurin Conlin: Not necessarily.
• 56:29
  Laurin Conlin: So I really wanted to be able to be a bridge for both, and that was because obviously physical health affects mental health and vice versa.
• 56:36
  Laurin Conlin: So I really want to be able to hopefully bridge that for some people.
• 56:40
  Laurin Conlin: And I don't know what the current trajectory will look like.
• 56:43
  Laurin Conlin: You know, because by the time I'm done, it'll be about five years.
• 56:45
  Laurin Conlin: So it's one of those things where you know because by the time I'm done, it'll be about five years.
• 56:48
  Laurin Conlin: So it's one of those things where Because you just started, right, you literally just started, yeah, I just started.
• 56:50
  Laurin Conlin: And then the master's itself is about two and a half years.
• 56:54
  Laurin Conlin: And then after, because in the master's program I'm also doing in our program, doing 900 supervised hours also within that and then when I graduate I have to then do another 1500 hours over at least, like between two to five years, and then I can sit for my licensure exam.
• 57:10
  Laurin Conlin: In that period I can take on individuals, but I will still be working towards a license, so people just have to be aware of that.
• 57:17
  Laurin Conlin: But then in about five years, give or take, I'll be fully licensed, so and that's the fastest process that you can do.
• 57:24
  Laurin Conlin: So that is one of those things where you know during my internship hours I don't know where I'm going to.
• 57:29
  Laurin Conlin: Necessarily, you know work and do all that Like I'm keeping my options open, and so I'm sure, like even in my first month, I've learned so much because there really is so much nuance into the field.
• 57:40
  Laurin Conlin: So I don't know exactly what I'll be doing, but I do envision kind of bringing both together and also being a resource for a lot of other coaches that I know in the space who want to send their clients to therapists.
• 57:51
  Laurin Conlin: But maybe some of the therapists don't necessarily understand some of the coach stuff that we do deal with in a normal way, right, which I know, for some people could maybe look disordered if they are not aware of it.
• 58:00
  Laurin Conlin: But we know again, there's a very big difference of food awareness versus, you know, an eating disorder but someone who hasn't necessarily been exposed to, that they might be like I'm not too sure and this sounds like this, so want to maybe be that person within the space as well for those clients, cause that is a big feedback that I get from people who have gone to therapists, especially if they are the nurse or in that kind of space it's.
• 58:23
  Laurin Conlin: It is a little misunderstood, which no fault to anyone, because how would you know unless you're in that?
• 58:29
  Philip Pape: No, a hundred percent, I mean, I think, that's weird I think the fact that you said you're already learning a ton.
• 58:34
  Philip Pape: I could see you bringing that you know to your social media and your podcast and stuff like that.
• 58:38
  Philip Pape: But even to enhance coaching practice right, even without the entering into the scope of being licensed, I'm sure there's an untapped area for coaches of just more on awareness and understanding.
• 58:49
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, for sure.
• 58:50
  Laurin Conlin: I mean, I've already learned things in this month that I have been able to apply to clients.
• 58:55
  Laurin Conlin: And then I also do run a coaching mentorship program and I've already adjusted.
• 58:59
  Laurin Conlin: One of the weeks I added different stuff that I learned to the lecture.
• 59:03
  Laurin Conlin: You know what I mean.
• 59:03
  Laurin Conlin: So it's one of those things where I'm like I'm already, I'm super excited for that.
• 59:07
  Laurin Conlin: I honestly didn't I knew I would be able to help clients like currently, like that I'm working with, with what I'm learning, but now I'm actually seeing a lot of applications also to the coaches that I help mentor as well.
• 59:17
  Laurin Conlin: So I'm like, oh okay, this will be good.
• 59:23
  Philip Pape: So it's all going to be a big learning, eye-opening experience.
• 59:25
  Philip Pape: Well, and if you're not too busy in a few months, maybe we get you back on.
• 59:27
  Philip Pape: You can like share some of that I love to come back on.
• 59:30
  Philip Pape: We had so many topics so I'm more than happy to come back on for part two anytime is there anything just to wrap up, anything you wish I had asked or anything you wanted to leave with?
• 59:39
  Laurin Conlin: no, I just I really appreciate the conversation.
• 59:41
  Laurin Conlin: I love all the directions that it went.
• 59:43
  Laurin Conlin: I love that you care about these types of topics because they are so important but they sometimes get under discussed because the very concrete, flashy things are more exciting to talk about.
• 59:55
  Laurin Conlin: You know how much protein to get?
• 59:56
  Laurin Conlin: It's like let's move on.
• 59:59
  Laurin Conlin: This new thing came out or this whatever and I'm not against those kinds of things at all but I really think that in order to help more people, we need to really kind of take a step back and look at, like, what is like the big picture of, like how we're thinking and why we're doing things.
• 1:00:12
  Laurin Conlin: And if I can help encourage anyone as an individual or as a coach to be able to, you know, look at things from that perspective and that lens, then I feel like I've done my job.
• 1:00:24
  Philip Pape: Awesome.
• 1:00:24
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I mean behavior change and psychology is the root of.
• 1:00:26
  Philip Pape: I know me personally.
• 1:00:28
  Philip Pape: When I talk to more and more clients, it's like just lay it on me.
• 1:00:31
  Philip Pape: They'll be like am I telling you too much?
• 1:00:33
  Philip Pape: I'm like, no, this is going to help you, so just lay it on me and I'll help where I can.
• 1:00:37
  Philip Pape: It's all about the up here, all right?
• 1:00:39
  Philip Pape: So where can listeners learn more about you, lauren?
• 1:00:42
  Laurin Conlin: Yeah, so my Instagram, I would say, post primarily there.
• 1:00:45
  Laurin Conlin: So, just at Lauren Conlin, l-a-u-r-i-n, c-o-n-l-i-n.
• 1:00:50
  Laurin Conlin: I also just started documenting again on YouTube.
• 1:00:53
  Laurin Conlin: So back in the day I used to do YouTube videos and I'm coming back just with going back to school and I'm navigating a business and relationships and all this different stuff and going to school.
• 1:01:03
  Laurin Conlin: Here's some things I'm learning, here's how I'm doing stuff.
• 1:01:06
  Laurin Conlin: So that's back on my YouTube, just my full name as well, taking a little pause on the podcast because of all this, but the Logo Fit Show does have over 300 episodes, so there's plenty of information on there and I have great guests.
• 1:01:18
  Laurin Conlin: We actually have also a mental health counselor who I typically do episodes with as well, so we have that in there as well.
• 1:01:24
  Laurin Conlin: And then the other coaches on the team and, yeah, so it's pretty much like the main places.
• 1:01:33
  Laurin Conlin: And then, of course, our website, redefine Healthy Brands, if anyone is interested in one-on-one coaching for their lifestyle or competition.
• 1:01:36
  Laurin Conlin: And then, lastly, I don't know when this is coming out, but I am running my third round of my coaching mentorship the Art and Science of Coaching.
• 1:01:44
  Laurin Conlin: So that will be starting on October 7th.
• 1:01:47
  Laurin Conlin: So if anyone's interested in that, feel free to send a message or an email and I can shoot you more info.
• 1:01:53
  Philip Pape: I'm sure there are coaches that listen to the show as well, because I know, as a coach, I like other coaches shows, so we'll put all of that in the show notes.
• 1:02:00
  Philip Pape: Lots of fun.
• 1:02:01
  Philip Pape: This will be out in a few weeks from when we record it, so whoever, but when you're listening to it, you've just traveled in time and you've got it right now, and thank you so much for taking the time, even after repeating three times.
• 1:02:11
  Laurin Conlin: Of course, third time was the charm.
• 1:02:13
  Laurin Conlin: It was great.
• 1:02:14
  Laurin Conlin: Thank you so much, lauren.