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Right Product, Right Account: Sales Strategies and Brand Building With Joanna Manzo-Davis, Co-Founder of Top Dog Cocktails · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Joanna Manzo, CEO, Top Belt Spirits, LLC.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Joanna, I am going to talk about the fact of what just occurred.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: While you were talking, and I heard your voice, I swear to God, this happens every once in a while.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just now made the connection as to how we know each other.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a couple of years ago, I want to say 2016, 2015, 2017, somebody in somewhere in there, I was in Philly Beer Week for recruiting brands to come out to uh York and do their distribution and stuff like that with me.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at with uh Philly beer scene.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that Matt or something like that?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: They ran Philly Beer.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in the car with Matt.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're at some bar, and he's like, hey, we're going down to Underground Arts.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: You want to come?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I hop in the back of his car with like all the magazines piled up.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm at the I'm coming up on four years sober, but at this time I'm in the heat of my drinking.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little blurry at times.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I will tell you that night what I remember is you were there, and it just happened as I heard your voice, and I'm a very auditory person where I connect things.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: You hopped on the piano, I want to say, right?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the mic.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody else played the piano and you sang.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it is.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Remember exactly what night you're talking about.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I have chills telling you the story because I recorded you with my phone, and I wish I could find the video because I went home back to and I showed so many people, and I want to compliment you publicly because it was beautiful.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was absolutely beautiful to where I talked about it for like it was it was a night that I talked about for a really long time.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we never interacted, so I don't want to be creepy in this, other than I remember you being in the middle of the floor performing, and you're you're just absolute absolute beautiful voice.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, that's so funny.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm getting, I'm like sweating because I'm all of a sudden it was like a flashback of chicken days and stuff.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you think that was 2016 or 2017?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was not, it was definitely not after 2017 because I I didn't have that project or task in mind.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't go to Philly Beer Week after 2017.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go in 2014?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I went every year.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it might have been 2014.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense, yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was still with Smuddy Nose there because we did a lot of we did some business with Underground Arts.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you were you were with Smuddy Nose at the time.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's exactly it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it was this is probably one, this is after midnight.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like midnight, one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was after hours for sure.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, perfect.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want to jump into your story, and I probably will leave that in because honestly, it's a beautiful memory for me, and and uh, and it's just so funny to talk to you and finally meet you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, you too.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go through, let's go through, let's give me a cloud level fly overview of anybody that's never, I mean, obviously we're we're located in Pennsylvania, but this podcast goes out to 400 different cities around the country and internationally.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So tell everybody what top top dog cocktails is and what what you guys what you guys make and what you're all about.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So Top Dog Cocktails, I started with an investor and a bunch of colleagues in 2021.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: We went to market in May 2022.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, uh we are full strength uh cocktails in a can.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Our core lineup is 12.5%.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, at the time when I was approached by this investor, you know, it was like high moons were just coming out, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like stateside and serve side, I think we're just coming out, or like we came out the same year.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but really like the malt-based RTDs were getting a little bit of trade-up to liquor based.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we identified like a pretty big gap in the market for you know, canned cocktails that were like actual like cocktail strength.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, the investor that approached me was like, I want to do like a really high ABV cocktail, and there's a gap in the marketplace, and I just came right on board.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, so we've been in the market for about four years.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're in Pennsylvania, we're in New Jersey, we're in Florida, and um it's it's interesting because cutwater was out at the time.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Cutwater, I think, I feel like Cutwater was a Ballas Point brand, right?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Was it was it that was right before, right before all that stuff.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So this is before A B Cotwater and I had had Cutwater before, as we had shared a common distributor in uh Jersey, Honored in at the time.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I love their stuff, but that wasn't in PA.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can talk about that later, just how hard it is to get into PA with you know being a control state and everything like that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, we're authentic 12.5% cocktails in the can, something that makes us unique that not a lot of other RTDs do is we do multiple spirits, right?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So not only do we have vodka skews, but we have whiskey skews and we have tequila skews too.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um kind of something for everybody.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: We pack a punch, and you know, there really is a great value proposition for the retailer and the consumer because it turns out that the level of alcohol in your drinks does not really affect the price.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's the packaging, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So one of our cans is two and a half of anything that's five percent, whether it's beer, it's malt-based, it's liquor-based, or whatever.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we're really not that much more expensive.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably 20% more expensive, four pack to four pack or eight pack to eight pack, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we're two and a half times the strength.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're two and a half of those drinks.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um you know, also I've had a lifetime of industry experience, and I was a restaurant industry kid and a bartender, and so I really think that uh our cocktails are really well balanced.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're not like super fake.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh big, you know, it's all natural stuff, and it tastes like something you would get behind the bar.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't taste like what you would perceive to be coming out of a can.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the other thing, the other thing I learned that I want to, I want to connect with with the audience as well.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I tell a lot of stories about my time in the beginning days when I was 19, 20, 21, running a sales route in Philadelphia.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Miller course wholesaler in Philadelphia, and you just shared with me before that you were on this.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We literally I ran the route for until 20, 2008.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then you literally came into the same route.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: How many, what's it when what year did you?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So two years later, and you're running the same route and the same account.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the type of universe circle stuff that I really love when I get on here.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and honestly, like I I send out to everybody to come on and I get really excited when these little connections kind of come up and stuff like that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So super cool that now I have a face for uh some of the crazy stories I've told from back then.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's a small world.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a small world.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I also I also have to be humble and say that four years ago when this when this began, and uh I I did not see the high alcohol cans going as far as they have.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And now looking at the industry data, seeing how much of a stronghold that they have, I was admittedly wrong like four years ago.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I'm so happy to see where it went and the and the place that you guys are going with it.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I definitely was like because the reason I think I did it was I had the lens of craft beer where like we did those nine percent and 12%, but then all of a sudden it came back.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's not that I have to remember that the the cocktail spirits consumer is not the same mentality of that person.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting, so many things have even in the last four years have have changed in the industry, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, all these articles are coming out, people aren't drinking that much anymore.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're seeing you have all the T the states that can do the THC beverages and the hemp beverages, right?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've got stateside and surfside shooting through that noise, completely, you know, completely just busting that myth, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just read an article yesterday that wineries are, you know, burning, you know, burning down their vineyards in California because nobody's drinking wine anymore.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so and then, and then four years ago, like TikTok wasn't even that big of a deal.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, cowboard just had this gigantic you know surge in sales because some person put a did a jugging challenge, which is highly irresponsible.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we were all young ones, but whatever.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it like set them on fire.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's just interesting.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's this industry has changed so much.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it makes me sad a lot of the kind of breweries going out of business or getting bought out.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think we all kind of like once even when Celters came out, it was like wholesalers are like, all right, is this a fat?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this gonna last like more than two, three years?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's gonna happen here?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, people started putting liquor in them, and and so, you know, it's we live in a country of convenience, you know.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I uh I told the story once before, but it was it was probably five, four years, whenever cut water was very new.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was in Maine uh during the summer on vacation and I was sitting at the pool and I was I was uh still drinking at the time, but for many reasons of the fact that I partied like a great person and I and I'm good.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I threw in my towel.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I drank everything that was.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So but when I when I was drinking, I I did uh I was sitting by the pool and I bought a four-pack of cut water, but I didn't read the can to the extent of what I should have read.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember like even in the height of my drinking, having that I drank that whole four-pack like it was a tropes perpetual.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, it hit me when I got into that water.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: People, there's some interesting first stories, you know, with uh some of our product.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: We I made very, very much sure that when we designed the packaging, that we put as big as possible on that can.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 12.5%, it's a gigantic square.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we have two little cocktail emojis and it says like two drinks equals one can.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And but some people, you know, they don't.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've always looked for ABV because me myself, I don't really like light beer, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that's six percent IPA and above and maltier, like I gravitate to, so I pay attention to the ABV.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: But in a world now where there's so many white cans out there, right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think people just see a white can and they're like, oh, that's four or five percent.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And like I can drink a bunch, you know, this is a sessionable, you know, beverage, and I'll be fine.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes you don't drink again.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I I'm glad you brought up the packaging and stuff like that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can I talk about Marat and uh boardroom at all?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is your cacker?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you okay, cool?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so yeah, so Marat connection as well.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Marat and I went to college together, Drexel brought me together.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I will embarrass them and say that we we uh we couch surfed together in the same rugby house where every weekend we would decide who would get the couch and we'd draw straws, and I slept on the floor.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes Marat would punch me and I had to be on the floor, even though I won the straw game.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I love Marat and uh I was so excited uh a couple years ago.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I keep in touch with them often.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh when I saw your product come through, because of exactly what you just said, it wasn't white, and it wasn't, it wasn't also, it wasn't pretentious.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the biggest thing is where before you guys came into the scene, it was getting white.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I even was I even uh, you know, I did package design for a couple different brands that aren't around now, but we did white.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: We had the white, the fruit, and everything, and we were following the protocol.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about how was that nervous nervousness for you?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times in our well, I want to say, like, obviously in our industry, like like a lot of people follow the trends.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to hear from you how that was not something that made you nervous where you're like, you know, fuck that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing that.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna zig when they're zagging.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, not at all.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was so excited.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm so excited and grateful.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest things about me is I'm just a creative person, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm artistic and and I also have a business mind.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, but when I'm able to be creative and have creative control like that, it was exciting.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew since we were dog themed, like our investor had an artist from the main line that uh literally she's a dog illustrator, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew that we wanted her to illustrate some dogs for us, her stew, her brand.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when I looked at our stuff, it was very like whimsical.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it almost felt like Scooby-Doo 70s-esque, like groovy.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of instructed our designer.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I gave him some packages I liked from like around the country, but we kind of went with this whimsical 70s, 70s vibe.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and at that time in packaging, I don't know if this is the right word, but the the metalization effect, like the metallic effect is really coming out, especially when breweries were like sticker labeling.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew that that was like something new.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And from a real estate perspective and retail, you know, that's something that pops off the shelf.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to be creative and fun and invigorating to look at, sexy, have a great color palette, and not be like everybody else.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But from a technical standpoint, I wanted it to kind of hop off of the shelf.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, success because I I uh we on the this is the media side of the business.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: We also do market development and retail in Pennsylvania.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in the retail all the time along with my account managers that work with me on certain brands in the RTD spirit space.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're in the hemp space and functional beverage and then in the not op channels as well in Pennsylvania.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just see your products all the time, and and that is it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just pop, they pop right off the shelf.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those things that I tell people all the time it's like that is the that is the right way to go.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to, we have other guests that are on here, and I'm not speaking ill of the other Pennsylvania spirits and stuff like that, and I represent them, but it is a unique package, it's a unique format, it's a unique alcohol in the sense of what exists in the shelf in in Pennsylvania specifically, and as well in I've seen you guys in New Jersey.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have not been down to Florida in the in there yet to see everything.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I just I want to compliment you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those things, too, that a lot of times also we get on here with new founders that are new also to the industry, whether they, you know, had corporate burnout and then started a beverage brand and stuff like that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I can just tell from the beginning, I never knew it was you.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't look up that it was you, I didn't know this connection.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just knew the brand.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes so much more sense now to meet you and get to know you and realize your pedigree and your history lines up with the same perspective I have as it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes sense as the one guessing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And also, Marat worked at the Miller Course Wholesaler as well.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So now there's Priamus.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: He did.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: He said it who we should tell people who Marat is.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, Marat, I did say that very casually.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, Marat is the uh co-founder along with his brother and his wife of Boardroom Spirits, which is a house brand, they have their own private house brand.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're also uh partnered with Robert Irvine of the Robert Irvine Association and Irvine Spirits, and they also co-pack for, I believe, dozens of different brands, including yours.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And on the other side, something uh I was just interviewing with Christian uh Monday over at Pennsylvania Libations, and talk about as well with uh ZM Logistics and Barback PA and Pennsylvania Libations for the rest of the audience to understand anybody that's outside of Pennsylvania.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have two tiers of alcohol distribution because of the way that our laws are.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: We have the traditional or three tiers, I'd say three different channels, let's say.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we have our beer distribution channel, which does not allow spirits and does not allow wine.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have our state-owned liquor and wine stores, and then you have some weird caveats where the wine sometimes lands over permittedly into the beer side.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have this RTD spirits bill that passed uh September two years ago now, I think.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: September 2024, yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so September 2024, we talk a lot about legislative things on here and lobbying and stuff like that that we were doing and we partner with a lot of different states.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But in Pennsylvania, the number one thing was we had granted access to retail of in-state distilleries, but we left out the distribution vessels.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So then we had a burgeoning industry of uh Bailey for hire licenses, of people who warehouse and deliver, but they don't have front-end necessarily always front-end sales that support the brands.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a brand like yourself can speak definitely to the fact of how important it is for a brand to own their retail and whether they're the ones distributed it or not, having that direct relationship with the retailer is so crucial for how your brand sells and pulls off the shelf and is perceived by the consumer.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I think it's important to note that um this deal was on the table for years and we just didn't know when it was gonna pass.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we founded top dog uh cocktails.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: We can talk about top dog spirits later.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's our like satellite division, and it gives us all of our farmers' markets and our expos from the state.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we knew that this was coming for years.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: We just didn't know when the button was going to be pushed on it, and we had gotten word that the cap for grocery and beer distributors on a ready-to-drink cocktail is gonna be 12.5%, which is why we calculated that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: The initial proposal was to make these around 18 to 20 percent, which uh that's fine for the the state store, like the PLCB channel, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can make any ADD you want.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think for people that are outside of Pennsylvania or far away from Pennsylvania, because I'm sure the bordering states know this because it's a pain.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Historically, you could not get a package that had a sphere-based product in it outside of a state store.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it was 2016.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, it wasn't 2016.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 2014 when Pennsylvania amended Act 39.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And for the first time, the state was allowed to have beer and wine in a grocery store.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Before that, you had to go to the state stores.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them were even closed on Sundays.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So before 2014, you could never even get beer or wine in a grocery store, right?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: People down in Florida that goed in public are probably laughing at us, like that sucks, you know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Before 2024, you could never get a spirit space product anywhere outside of the state store.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened two years ago was monumental from a distribution standpoint, right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've got two entire other channels that you have access to.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: You went from having 600 possible stores in the state of Pennsylvania that are government run to thousands of beer distributors and several retail grocery chains and mom and pop stores that we'd never had access to before, which was it was huge.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the last number every week I kind of update that directory of permits.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's at like over 1,600 now that are RTD Spirits bolt-on permits across the state now.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just, that's just that's incredible.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But when you guys, uh, when you guys are rolling out, like are you you're statewide, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you kind of are you statewide, yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, talk a little bit about when you guys are you're a brand that sometimes we get on here and we talk to breweries and distilleries that have a tasting room and then are wholesale.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I always talk about the the differences in like how your consumers interact with you and interact with your brand inside your tasting room versus how a consumer might perceive your brand without an experience or place.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But you guys really you go above and beyond as far as the point of sale, as far as the consumer experience at retail.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it myself.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not just speaking out of anything.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about how important that is, that presence at retail when you are a pretty much a wholesale-only product.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna nerd out on my answer.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And my answer comes from the Milk Ruse uh distributor that we work for.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's really like the they used to say like right beer, right accounts.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's hilarious.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's right product, right account, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for a high ABV canned cocktail, we don't get a lot of on-premise traction from like regular bars.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, look, I can make that on my well for a dollar fifty cheaper or whatever.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what I'm gonna do.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: With the convenience of canned packaging, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: We thrive in outdoor venues like beer gardens, concert venues, stadiums, places where like it's 26 bucks for a Tito's and club, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ours might be 16 and you don't have to worry about the ice melting out of a plastic cup.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of secured in its vessel, and you get two for one, and you you know, you have to go to the bathroom less and it tastes good.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I think that we try to really pay attention to where our products actually gonna sell.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather saturate the right accounts than try to be in every point of distribution, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't do well in some accounts, which we're not going to, it might have to do with the area or the demographic or whatever it may be, the real estate, how much flex space the store has.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why we don't want to be in there?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna hurt our all-commodity value.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna hurt like the way that our brand looks from a data perspective.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that we've just paid really special attention.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And because we've had a team of a bunch of veterans that have worked all these channels before to say, like, we can identify what places we're gonna do well in.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and speak about that a little bit.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Speak about the team and the and the company, because that was another thing that was very impressive to me.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: You you went in, you went in full gore as far as uh as far as a a workforce went.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was something that was also impressive to me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people got to really go in.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was what was the mentality behind that?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: How big is it as far as staffing goes and kind of what's the culture with all you guys?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, we are like skeleton run.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my strategy, I think in a past life, I was probably a recruiter and I'm still a connector to this day.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: But my strategy was like to pull a bunch of colleagues I had that I thought were like the best in the game.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are like a six, seven-person company.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have a director of sales, Justin, who came from Sweetwater, and he was uh a big part of building up the distribution for fat heads in Pennsylvania.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have Matt Satney, who worked in the wholesale channel, he worked for founders for years, he worked for Terrapin for a hot minute, one of the best in this game, really great at negotiating with high-level partnerships and venues.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have two reps that were both in the industry as well.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: One is out in Pittsburgh, he worked for Penn for a lot of time.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Jesse, and then John Genner, who worked for Iron Hill and Oscar Blues for a while.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Before that, he you know, worked at I think X and Beverage for a long time.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, and then we have, you know, a a marketing department of sorts, and um, we have somebody that's handling grocery as well.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, for the most part, like that's it, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody just kind of tackles, wears a bunch of hats.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's and that's what point was.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean that you have a hundred people as much as you brought in the proper support system.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I believe is, and a lot of times, you know, myself included, I've had a I've had a failed launch of a product in my history as well because it was undercapitalized and it was under under-supported.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really like for brands that are out there and brands that are kind of entering the market, you know, I understand for everybody, and you you can speak to this as well, capital is hard to find, capital is is hard to keep, capital is hard to, you know, cash flow is hard to keep.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: But setting expectations properly, if you are a solopreneur that's trying to do this on your own, realizing what your expectations and scalabilities are, as well as if you end up building a team of contractors or full-time employees internally, it's a whole different mindset.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes I do like five to six of these interviews a week.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I feel like the mentality shifts sometimes where the solopreneur is disappointed with themselves because they're not achieving what the other side might be that has six or seven people.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the realization needs to go that those are two different tracks and two different realities completely that do not mix.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, you might catch lightning in a bottle and be a solopreneur and all of a sudden your phone's ringing off the hook because everybody wants you, because your your clip went viral or somebody, something went well tasting.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, this is a capital-intensive operation that you run as well as those that are at the same scale that you are.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about the back end of the business side of things and however much you want to share.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not looking for any secrets.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would think that that the the capital is not really my wheelhouse.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that I deal with.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's a channel that our investor deals with, and we do have a board of investors.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, identifying talent and kind of getting the you know, the bones and the structure of everything going.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then operating has been more of my side of the business.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But just as what you were saying, I think that there's, you know getting getting people to invest, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and also identifying talent and being able to pull the right talent from the sidelines are are um equally.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: important to the brand survival and the brand building for sure.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and your your choice, you made a you made a point in the beginning to say that you got industry veterans.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's another thing where a lot of times somebody might grab some college kids that are that fit the budget but they might not fit the fit the brand or understand what's going on.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to you as well for being smart about that and and grabbing people that know what they're doing so they can hit the ground right up next to you.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Feel like a relic at this point.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's that?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a relic at this point I'm sure you do too.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like I'm like 80 years old.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: We can sit here and say we you know we were a part of the craft beer boom you know and it's like I was just tell I was uh I was interviewing with uh I just posted it today actually was uh Alex uh conj conja and uh he was one of the first sales reps at Oscar Blues.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow and I told the story on the episode about when Oscar Blues came to the Miller course wholesaler in Pen in Philadelphia and presented when we first launched and I remember getting so excited I had Old Chubb and I had all this stuff and I remember walking in with uh Susie Woods uh I'm probably I think she's married now so I'm probably giving her amazing name but we walked in with Sly Fox and Oscar Blues to a couple I think it was like Rembrandt's and Bishop's collar and those types of places.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I I got a whole like excitement about craft beer because I was like oh this is going to be awesome and then I started going to the other places that weren't already on board as early adopters and this is 2007 2008 2006.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of places I got laughed out of in Philadelphia because I had canned beer that was like really expensive in their minds.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean and like I think a lot of people it's so common now that craft beer isn't a can we forget that when we and especially you you ran that same route two years later so those same buyers are in that same place.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the evolution even of that of that to think of 14 10 14 years ago and yes I'm gonna date myself I I had a lot I had a whole luscious locks and head of hair back then and my beard was not gray.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and when when we were out there doing this it wasn't exactly a given like nothing was a layout and I think today when when on the market development side when when brands come in to to want to work with us their first question is always what's the guarantee yeah and I laugh every time because and I can't help but laugh and they get offended sometimes when I laugh because I'm like there's no guarantee in any of this like craft beer is what it is canned cocktails are what it is because years of blood, sweat and tears of people like yourself and others and the amount of ridicule and rejection that is that but every day we kept that and we call it the Philadelphia mentality we're taking a hit and we keep on walking.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can punch me if my nose is bleeding and I'm gonna keep walking in the door and selling it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean we were walking in when you know Philadelphia what is was at its all time high in beer snobbery we were the best beer city in the country or the Belgian you know beer city of the country and yeah there was a lot of pretentiousness.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to backtrack to a couple of things you said because I think they're important to note.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: One is rest in peace to Arch Unite who worked for Oscar Blues he unfortunately passed a few weeks ago um he was one of my my mentors when I was working at one of the 50 best beer bars you know in my early 20s and um I was fortunate enough to work alongside of him and he worked for the wholesaler of a bunch of my brands and he was a lifelong friend.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when you talk about people that pioneered I mean he was one of those people that was just infectious and amazing and yeah so I just wanted to say that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing I wanted to say was what it's just so funny that you brought up about stuff being in a can because it's things I don't even think about I didn't work.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean I remember working for several suppliers right whether it was beer cider or other that you know it was the hardest person to convince right the hardest person to convince to switch from a 750 that's not collecting dust on the shelf even arrogant bastard which at the time was the number one skew in the country is the brewer or the cider maker right they're like they just didn't think it was classy.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it like the bottle is ornate the bottle looks beautiful it translates you know the process and and whatever but they just at one point I probably around 2014 2015 they really started collecting dust and they just plummeted.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And people like Oscar Blues were already making you know stuff in a can and I just remember having several conversations with brewers and then an amazingly talented cider maker in Pennsylvania and he was like not having it and we kind of had to like be like well this is what's happening.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you would just see the velocity go up right for something that was if something is resealable at a flip top right like a growler okay that's one thing.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't expect somebody to drink at this point now, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: People aren't sharing 25 ounce beers at a restaurant, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sharing carrying table pens that I used to make back in the day.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean they just weren't right nobody wanted more than 12 ounces of like an Imperial stout me I would have drank the whole 25 ounce thing but it was just a package that was it was better and and from a logistical standpoint, you know, cans are half of the weight of bottles.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're talking about FOB and laid in pricing and shipping across the country and stuff like that, it was just so helpful.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention the mobility of like no glass by the pool, boating, fishing, got to that parties, golfing, stuff like hiking it was now just another excuse that you could just drink because it was in a can you we're gonna break anything.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now you guys I follow you guys online and stuff like that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to I want to give you some platform for you're more than just on the shelf.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about like some different consumer experiences, events, stuff like that that you guys do as well because I see a lot of I see a lot of activity outside of retail that that builds your brand and I think it's important for for founders and new people into this industry to understand that just getting it on the shelf is step one of a very long process of growing your rate of sales.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah sure.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I you know I I think the biggest thing from an events perspective that we do is we like to partner with dog rescues, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's very important to us.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things our director of sales does every year and he's been doing this for years since he was in beer is like he'll he does puppy bowl events and uh we really like to engage with the community from from that angle and we are definitely actively looking to sponsor or be a part of one of these organizations for a while.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's come down to like a licensing type of agreement, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's several national rescues that might have local chapters and we might be able to you know put their logo on our CAN, but the national sector says no or we would have to pay X amount of money.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that is something that's on the Docker Press but dog events are always a huge thing.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: One of the many hats that I wear is I I'm I'm involved heavily in our community engagement.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So with a limited distiller license or you know a brewery license the state gives you unlimited access to farmers markets, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Without like an additional license you pay the appearance fee that's associated with any of the markets.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then they give you a hundred what's called expo permits and expo permits can be anything from a street festival to a fair to a pop up at like a hair scotch.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've been really focused on farmers markets.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Something that you know our copers always beat into my head when I'm we're doing quality control and I'm like how come the greyhound isn't as you know pink as it was last time and they're like because the cranberries are an agricultural product Joe and they're not always the same color.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like all right well that's great.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'll take that to the consumer.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know they're constantly reminding us that we're an agricultural product.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: So people on the side might laugh like oh they're at a farmer's market like you're selling cocktails and you're like well it's because we're actually an agricultural product.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But just kind of like the grassroots like being at farmers markets.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something charming and really special about connecting with your community and being able to say like we're made eight miles away from here.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up here I went to high school here like I'm here to graduate like it's really cool.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think just engaging with the community doing animal run events and then you know we're also a big music fan.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So concert venues we've been a sponsor of the man since 2022.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many people at every farmer's market every festival at our satellites I'm sitting at our one of our satellites right now at Ridgehall in Amber PA people just come up and they say like their first experience is I had you at the man like I was listening to Desky Trocks band or like I had you at Fish and like oh this is so cool.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize like you were that close and like whatever.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think community engagement right um I think it helps when you've been in industry for a while and you know like a lot of people um but I think community engagement is more than just packaging something and throwing it on an eye level shelf.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree it's uh when I started this business in 08 I I didn't always it wasn't always alcohol actually I was uh I was booking bands in Philadelphia and stuff like that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh like Chris over at the Blockley I was doing those types of things and like so I was I did that for yeah I did that for a little bit um for a couple years after after the I left the graduated and left the Miller course wholesaler.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: But actually you just said Ambler and it it gave me a little nostalgia because I spent a year with my roommate my senior at college we lived in Glenside and we lived like a block away from Keswick.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Nice and I used to love going in there all the time.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I was so happy when I heard Chris is awesome.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I brought my parents for their I think it was their 40th anniversary to see Smokey Robinson, you know you see Smokey Robinson and all the storytelling that he did about Stevie Wonder in such an intimate venue.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's so special.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: We are the Keswick we're also at Ardmore music halls just constantly doing great things there's so many little little gems around here like that.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's is it still like as far as the bar scene goes like I don't go out in Philadelphia or that area as much anymore.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is there still a lot of live music that's in that area too or is that kind of diminished a little bit and more towards like the regular arena and stadium type stuff or not stadium theater I mean yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know I might not be the ideal person to ask because I have a three or five year old at home.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got four moved back to the burbs.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah I mean I think Fillmore's still kicking it I mean are there that any independent little music venues anymore?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the Burbs is taking one for the team on that which is great because uh people in the burbs like to go out too but uh yeah I I don't think I'm the right person to ask.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I will say one thing I was always looking for living in Philly always, always, always was a brunch spot that had live music.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just want to like listen to Paul Simon and eat my ex Benedict.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we just couldn't find that that's just like a whole other topic that could be for a whole other podcast to talk about the music scene in Philadelphia and how many amazing people have come out of Philly and and why I'll always be an advocate for live music.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's uh so I have another show that I launched last week where I do I go on site called Ready to drink local I'm starting with Pennsylvania as the pilot.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to I'll reach out to you and uh I'll when I come out there we can go to the Keswick and get you an athletic gear and we'll be good.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: There you go there you go.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah until I get my uh hemp beverage bill house bill two three zero nine over the line I got to be careful where I drink my hemp beverages now so yeah it's a lot of gray area with that in PA too it's a wild time.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It is it is we're working hard with that we have our first public hearing in September on that one.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to we're trying to get everything passed so we can be in in all channels and as new dispensaries as well as LCB licenses and then same thing.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: We want to run it the same as the RTD spirits but also anybody can buy a permit.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not where we're going to what there's been rumors that I've heard right of because I think one of the underbellies of this RTD you know bill was I think that the beer wholesalers were miffed that they didn't get access to this right they're going through the PLCD and I I really can't blame either one of them but like I know if I was a beer wholesaler I'd be kind of you know we're packaged like beer right like throw us a bone here you know this bill to be clear like it was only vessels in a certain size that are approved for grocery and beer like you can't buy a bottle of vodka at the grocery store you can't buy a bottle of vodka at a beer distributor.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just canned things.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And at first they had three different vessel sizes and then now they might have two or something but the point is it's packaged and sold just like beer.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the wholesale channel was meh and so I did hear a rumor that you know if this legislation goes through or when with F and THC and all that that wholes uh beer wholesalers might get a crack at that.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well here's what I'll tell you is and I I I'm on the record and I think I'll leave this on because we're a couple weeks away and I've had a very stressful year.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are zero wholesalers at least and I'm I'm directly associated with uh with the trade associations as well as the lobbyists and everything like that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I I myself walked the halls of Harrisburg uh championing this bill.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I've been turned down many times this year for participation from a fundraising aspect to work on the advocacy campaign from a wholesale level being told that basically here's the stances we're interested but we're not gonna publicly advocate or participate.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So here's here's the catches RTD spirits they did the same thing and they got lost out of the bill if they don't participate I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing didn't fall happen with them because they're not participating.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: They are they're gonna they they I believe I don't want to make an assumption but it very much carries the perception of uh it'll land on our lap because we deserve it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's something where I'm smiling because I'm very much ingrained in the internal aspects of how this is going.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you that that probably won't be the case because the bill will die if we do not have the support.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't get the support after this public hearing it will die.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I speak so confidently with it is I work with wholesalers in North Carolina.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: We run a statewide campaign called regulate don't ruin nc.com and we run I work with multiple distributors across that state funding that campaign and they we actually last Tuesday the the uh legislator in North Carolina was going to put a ban up for hunt beverages last Tuesday a rushed vote and they put them all in we have thousands of people on our website regulate don't ruin nc.com we do a podcast series with it within one day we were able to activate the thousands of people via text and email we flooded the Capitol we had protests outside and then they they delayed the vote and they said we don't want to touch it because we blew up their phones, we blew up their emails we were physically present in the hallways and we were physically present outside.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's the example that I then two weeks ago shared with multiple wholesalers across the state of Pennsylvania and simply said we can replicate this and get this going if you're interested.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Zero responses from anyone the reason is and I'm gonna say this because it is whatever is I've heard and I'm not gonna name the name because I don't want to get sued but a National Trade Association in that world has told them to stay quiet and do not advocate for hemp average.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very complicated when it comes to this and I can tell you that I am I am very open about my disappointment in their participation in this and um I think it's a very big missed opportunity that it's short-sighted to where if it does disappear and fall into some banning thing which is what our state attorney general uh Dave Sunday wants which if he gets what he wants, then the beer distributors have lost not only the RTD spirits opportunity for revenue, but they would have lost a second one.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And my question to them that I'm on the record in this show talking about is two to three years from now when you have to begin downsizing and consolidating and laying off employees, you can't blame RTD spirits and you can't blame hemp beverages anymore.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because you missed it.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: You missed the shot.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly so not to give you a doubter on that one but you struck a good one on me on that one because it's it's uh this year was a year that I never thought I'd be walking the halls of Harrisburg in my entire life uh letting alone advocating for something that the way that we are and dedicating and donating so much of time and and resources onto it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh to find people that are willing to participate after the hard work's done you as a fellow entrepreneur that never rubs you the right way you know so focusing on you guys as well for kind of closing out any other topics any other thing else that you guys want to cover as far as Top Dog goes and I am looking forward to coming out on site in one of these locations and we'll do do a little booze and music uh series yeah I think we're gonna do some vinyl grunches.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes so in the last year we opened our first satellite um that's where Top Dog Spirits comes into play I have roles on both sides of the company.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Top Dog Spirits covers our limited distillery it covers the five satellites that they grant you um it covers the unlimited farmers markets and the 100 expos.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I control like I I don't want to say control, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that's all of my channels and then I do national grocery back over on the top dog side and I do some stuff with branding and marketing and all that.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: So just in the last year we opened our first satellite at Ambler it's called Ridge Hall.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a MIDI reading terminal there's about a dozen uh vendors uh a bunch of them from Philly out of second and third locations we've got Chad Rosen Goldenhouse we've got Chris Barn from Lockheed's last chance we've got Marie from pierogi kitchen 25 years in Roxboro it's really cool and uh that's been super super exciting.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love Ambler from Montgomery County moved to South Philly with my husband for 12 years he was a chef I was you know working in alcohol and uh we moved back recently so now right just a few blocks from my house we have a Top Dog satellite so that's exciting we are our limited distillery space is actually in Kennet Square right off of State Street and it's below a really cute boutique E music venue that's called the Flash and we are collaborating with the Flash and we are going to open that space as a tasting room and it's going to be run by the Flash and it's gonna be a green room concept that is open with mirrored hours through the Flash shows.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: The Flash is right now at BYO B.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: They do have a pork fee but it's a BYS so people can come in before a show they can grab cocktails.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: We do have a PA liquor license there right so we're gonna be able to have PA wine PA beer cider meat etc and so you'll be able to come in before a show or maybe after a show maybe you get to do a signing or like you know meet the musician type of thing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that should be open within probably a month or two.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also have a concept that's a vinyl bar in Fishtown.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like on the Fishtown Port Richmond it's 2012 Frankfurt Avenue we're nestled between Cake and Joe and Nut Hut right by Riverwoods produce it was an old uh Chase ATM so it's like I can't imagine it's more than 400 square feet.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's an instant little spot we've got a resident audio engineer that's doing some creative directoring for us in a GM and we're getting all of our equipment in now so that's gonna be like a cute little I I like to call it a boutique hole in the wall right it's gonna be a cute boutique like hole in the wall where we can go and like listen to some music.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're going to pick up your produce from Riverwoods and you want to get a you know a shot and a beer.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're we're starting to unveil some of these satellites and obviously we're all dog lovers but a lot of them have like a music theme to them which I it I personally love as you said your first story about mus I've been a musician my entire life and so you know music dogs and some drinks good so yeah we're excited to be opening these satellites in kind of our next chapter I think a lot of people that in Pennsylvania a lot of producers right whether they're a brewery or a winery or a distillery you kind of have two paths that you can that you can launch your concept in you can do what we did and you can launch into distribution and then eventually over time you can decide if you want to take advantage of the opportunity to have these satellites with these PA licenses right you can basically open five bars.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so our path was we open distribution and now we're doing this in tandem now that we have a solid distribution footprint there's other breweries out there like you know Human Robot or Forest and Maine that jumped right into you know the satellite thing and and I think the beauty of PA and one thing that, you know, kind of growing up in PA and being this control state and it always being such a pain to be able to go to like you have to go to the state store you have to go to that beer distributor.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: One of the cool things I think that Tom Wolf did for us was allow us to be able to have alcohol in the grocery channel, allow us to now have RTDs in the grocery channel and the beer channel and the satellite farmer's market festival channel I mean is really helping the local economy as as alcohol producers and PA, you know, there that's a whole other conversation of if the bars like it or they don't and if we're in competition with each other and whatever.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: But from a producer standpoint I think that that kind of made up for a lot of I won't say negligence over the year, but just feeling like we were so archaic in our laws and stuff like that.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really long answer to your question.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, no it's perfect though.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually I'll I'll uh I'll just tag on to that is is you know from a revenue standpoint it's a beautiful thing because it's like that long dollar margin for the for the producer.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like I as soon as it happened my biggest thing and I'm I know you'll probably agree with this is the value of the intelligence and education that you get and that direct communication to that consumer.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times we do tastings at retail and things like that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you might get people passing by but it's a whole different conversation when you're work because I've worked for multiple brands doing labor as well as my own brands with uh at farmers markets and those conversations are completely different than the conversations you have at tastings at retail.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah well and it's like in Jersey you have to you have to do a sampling to be able to walk through a brewery.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: God bless God bless God bless Jersey.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah yeah I was just uh interviewing uh uh Battle River I just uh put that episode up this week as well over in Tom's River or Battle River brewing in Tom's River and uh we were going through all the nuances of all the laws and I I I it had been a little bit since I actually had been in a brewery and I was blown away because he's like yeah you guys think you have something over there he's like wait till I tell you what we got going on now.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's crazy.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's Jersey is so much more convenient to get a drink right you can get a drink you can you can get a takeout six pack at a bar you know down the shore in Jersey right but like you but God forbid if bands playing while you're drinking.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right and yeah and they really have an issue with kids over there at breweries and stuff which I'll tell you as a parent of young kids now I've got a totally different perspective on it than I did 10 years ago right so do I just give them a cutoff time right just be like all right dude by 6 30 like the kids are out it's adult swim you know get out of the pool.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when we were growing up here's the thing in Pennsylvania there was never a law but I remember whether it was my parents or not at 9 p.m was when you kind of took your kids out like it was like you it I don't know if it was like just a commonwealth like you know convenience thing but I remember growing up and being like well we were having dinner sometimes and it was like well it's coming up on 9 p.m we got to go home you know yeah I don't know I mean I feel like my parents always always did that too my parents also had a lot of house parties um but um yeah I don't know if that was a thing but I think it's just common courtesy right and like maybe that's what I mean common I meant to say commonwealth courtesy but especially like in walking neighborhoods right it's in Ambo there's so many parents now and we're actually connected to a brewery here in Ridge Hall twisted gingers they make really good beer right but like it's like six o'clock and these strollers just come flooding in which they they make strollers as big as like a Mini Cooper nowadays.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually ridiculous.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like I'm also a stroller mom and so six o'clock comes on like the parents are grabbing a beer in a cocktail and the kids are getting chicken fingers and ice cream It's like we're if you're in a walking community, you're not driving, and you're experiencing your town that you pay taxes in, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: But would I have my kids out on my I'm I'm probably a special, a special situation because my kids end up being here more often than they should.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: But for the typical parent, I think they deserve to have their time.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: But uh there's a lot of debates on kids and breweries for sure.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fully agree.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm and then I'm gonna uh I'll commit to you as well.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: I got a few friends that have houses and live out in the Ambler area, so I'm gonna text them all later and make sure that they all check out check out the new spots.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are fully open there and operational and everything.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the only um the only day that Ridge Hall is closed is Monday.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're open Tuesday through Sunday.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are really busy on Saturdays.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I also think Thursday night's a great night to come in because there's live bands at Twisted Genders right down the hall.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you can come in to Twisted, you can come in, get some food, get a cocktail, you can bring the cocktails over there, you can bring the food over there.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they're getting like a really, really good crowd.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Ambler, uh, one of my friends actually used to do it at Ambler Music.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in several bands for, I don't know, 25 years in Ambler.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Ambler has always been a town where there's a lot of talented musicians, and and now, you know, they have a place to, there's a couple of places here to gather, but they have Twisted Juniors, which is a huge space, and there's a really cool cheesesteak spot called High Stakes, and they have an open mic on Wednesday.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great to to see that in the community of coming in for live music.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, tell them to come in on Thursdays.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's closing out, just to remind everybody the company name, your name, and then all the handles and websites and all that stuff to follow you guys online.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Top Dog Cocktails.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Our Instagram handle is at Top Dog Cocktails.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's the same for Epps and for TikTok.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And our website is www.topdogcocktails with ns.com.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for coming on.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, I want to thank you for coming on with no script, no agenda, there's no prep at all.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: And despite the fact that we have so many common connections, we've never actually met.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the story I told the beginning.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: I watched from afar like a creep in the corner at the bar and uh watching you like I didn't I didn't actually engage at all.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that I love about this show, but also the most important thing is people like yourself that aren't afraid to go on camera and talk about what they're passionate about, which is exactly what you're doing every day.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the type of guest that I love having.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you for the courage of doing that because there are a lot of people that reject my invitation solely on the fact that there's not a prep meeting prior and we're not going out to dinner and we're not gonna grab breakfast, and there's no questions that are gonna come into their email.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how I operate.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not how I've ever operated.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's why a lot of times the corporate world doesn't get along with me because I'm I have my business is called free mind for a reason.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, and in closing, I want to remind everybody again as well.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Every single episode, I will remind you, five minutes a week of kindness to a stranger is my challenge.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is a ready-to-drink podcast.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about beverages, it is a great thing, ROIs and everything like that, and all these things.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: But beverages are the social bridge that we all need to human connection.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: That is the vehicle to that human connection.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's 2026, and things are beautifully destructive and crazy.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you can put out some good kindness out there five minutes a week.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, look at the strangers while they're walking by, give them a smile, ask them how they're doing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be creepy, read the language.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And also, when you're at the gas station filling up that cup of coffee, say how you doing to the guy next to you, the girl next to you, and actually listen to what they're saying.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Shut your mouth, don't focus on yourself, focus on them.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Your life might be full.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Picket fence, dog, kids, spouse, everything, but that's not the case with everybody.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: So please, everybody, five minutes a week, 20 minutes a month, the best ROI time you can spend.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Joanna, thank you so much for coming on.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, mate.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's catch up soon.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You take care.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good one.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.