Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / A breathing masterclass with the original breathwork guru, Dan Brule

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A breathing masterclass with the original breathwork guru, Dan Brule · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Dan Brelet, Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Happy to be here.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: And now, don you will not remember this, but many
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: years ago, pre COVID, I did a breath work session
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: with you. Now the backdrop to this. If you'd have
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: asked me fifteen years ago about breath work, I probably
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: would have said it's fluffy bullshit tarted by the crystal
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: waving bgride right.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: And then because I'm a physiologist with a background in
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: your science as.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Well, and then I started reading about different types of
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: slow control breathing and resonant frequency breathing and the impact
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: on the parasympathetic.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Nervous system, like oh maybe, oh jeez, this shit is real.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: And then I, obviously, will you start digging into breath work?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Your name obviously comes up.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: And then it turns out that a mate of mine
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: who I used to work with, and she and Saunders
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: and his wife were actually hosting you. And I saw
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: it advertising. I'm like, shit, I want to go to that,
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: And I went and I could only stay for half
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: a day. It was a full day, and we started
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: doing a number of different types of breath work, and
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: then just before lunch you put on the music and
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: we did like almost an r It would have been
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: a pretty fast paced breathing and oh my god. I
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: got at the end of that, and I remember there
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: were people to kind of hear people wheeling.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And doing all sorts of stuff.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: But as soon as it finished, I went to stand
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: up and it was like I had taken a massive
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: dose of narcotics. And I was like, wow, as in
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: your scientist, crazy shit must be going on in my
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: brain with my neurotransmitters and all of that. And then
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: the debrief was really interesting. Somebody remembered their birth in
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: the deep breath and all sorts of crazy shit. Now,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: before we unpack that, just you've trained a whole heap
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: of high performers over the year. Your book has a
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: forward from Tony Robbins. I believe you've trained Tony Watt Robins.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: So just from a high level before we start to
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: dive in, what is your definition of breath work in
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: general and how is it different from just deep breathing.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, breathwork is the it's an art. It's
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: a science of using breath awareness and conscious breathing as
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: a tool, as a force, as a bridge for health,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: for growth, for change and body mind spirit and so
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: if you're a biohacker, breathing is key. If you're Special
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Forces and Navy coal, you need to manage your arousal,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: manage your mental state, your emotional state. You get to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: handle all that stuff with the breath and what you described.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: After a session, people go where am I WHOA. It's
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like taking plant medicines, It's like taking Iowa does because
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: we have a pharmacy in our head, and we manufactures
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: whatever chemicals are required to meet whatever's demand is expected.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And so breath is a way to turn that stuff on.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the only system in the body that's
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: both automatic and under our control. To me, that's not
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: an accident, that's not a coincidence. That's an invitation. That's
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: an opportunity to take part in our own nature, in
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: our own evolution. So it's I'm a missionary for the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: breath because I've seen too many miracles. I've seen too
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: much healing. I've seen people take care of things that
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: they thought they were victims of. And I've seen people
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: get off of drugs and sistances when they started breathing.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: And so I'm still digging for what the possibilities are.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And but there's no doubt that when you play with
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: your breath, you you change brain waves, you access chemical states.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Your CO two is a volatile acid, so when you breathe,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: you're playing with CO two levels, which we know how
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: important the pH balance is in the body. And so
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: it's pretty cool that by getting a handle on your
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: breath you get a handle on your autonomic nervous system.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: You you can you can manage things that are supposed
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: to be unconscious or involuntary and and through the breath
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: and influence so so.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So that's that's all.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Hack this a little bit, and let's talk about the
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: autonomic nervous system. So we can use our breath to
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: activate the parasympathetic nervous system, but we can also use
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: our breath to activate the sympathetic nervous system. And there
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: are different use cases for both of those things. Right,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: let's pick the easy one first, which is using breath
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: for the parasympathetic nervous system, because in my digging into
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: the physiology, that is much more straightforward than the sort
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: of fast paced breathing that we're going to talk about
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: and the SOO to the oxygen, all of those sorts
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: of things. So let's just talk about the benefits of
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: slow control breathing. What are the actions and what are
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: some different types of control breathing that people can actually use,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: and then to your particular fear for it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, well for the forty thousand foot view, to just
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: simplify everything, if you want to energize yourself, you want
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to activate the sympathetic branch, fight flight, perform on what
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: you lean into the inhale. If you want to trigger
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: the parasympathetic branch, rest, digest, recover, you lean into the exhale.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: So relaxation is in the exhalation, and so to trigger
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: thank god, there are no drugs that can trigger the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: parasympathetic response in the body. There are drugs that trigger
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: the sympathetic you know. Yeah, so thank god there's no
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: drugs for that, which is kind of cool. And so,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: for example, every time you inhale the heart speeds up,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: you trigger the sympathetic branch or the nervous system. Every
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: time you exhale the heart slows down, you trigger the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: parasympathetic brand. So if you begin by lengthening the inhales
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: simply by starting to slow the breathing down, already you're
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: starting to tip towards that parasympathetic and then you can
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: do it very deliberately by lengthening the exhale. The more
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: time you spend on the exhale, the more time you're
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: leaning into that parasympathetic direction. So shushing, sounds, purse, lip breathing, humming, chanting, toning,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: all those are different tricks for extending the exhale and
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: remaining in that parasympathetic direction, you know, for a longer
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: period of time. So low and slow there, so getting
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: if you breathe high in your chest, even if you're
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: breathing slowly, you're kind of activating the sympathetic branch. So
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: getting the breath down into the belly, the lower abdomen,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the lower rib area. That's so low and slow. That's
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: anti anxiety breathing because it's it's parasathetic turning on. So
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: in a nutshell, breathe into the belly and slow the
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: bread down, and already you're beginning to activate that parasympathetic branch.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: You're just you know, it's like a gas pedal in
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the brake, and so you're putting the brake on with.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: And and and most people walk around not not with
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: an issue with the brick, they walk around with an
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: issue with the gas pedal or the accelerator as we
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: call it. They're in sympathetic dominance right, not all.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: The time, almost in the background almost. You know, we're
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: living with this low level of background anxiety all the time.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You open the newspaper, you got something you gotta think about,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: pay the bills. There's always something that's keeping that going.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So if you're not doing something to deliberately shift out
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: of it, you can pretty much bet you're going to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: be in sympathetic overdrive just about all the time. And
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: then it just becomes a default setting in our system,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: whether you like it or not, whether we're doing so.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: You have to do something deliberate and conscious to unplug
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: from that. Otherwise it's it's running automatically. You never know
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: when a saber tooth tiger is going to jump out
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of the you know, out of the woods on you.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: And so that's where we're running on very ancient survival
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: program and uh and breath work kind of it kind
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: of unplugs us from that survival program and and lifts
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: us into more of feeling like, hey, enjoy the time
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: to smell the flowers, you know, and if you don't
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: do it on purpose, the system by itself isn't going
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to do it because we geared for survival. You can't
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: you can't take a chance to let go and relax
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: because that's when somebody's gonna sneak up on you. And
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: so it has to be conscious and deliberate. And most
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: people we snap into that sympathetic instantly. One shot, it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: looked at me the wrong way and I'm triggered, say
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: something a noise of the bushes, and automatically that switches on.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: But going to the powasympathetic that seems to need a
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: process and time and deliver it. So it's like we
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: have a one way switch that triggers the fear and
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: anxiety and survival. But going in the other direction, it
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't snap so quickly, and it requires more conscious intentional
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: focus and so on to really move into that state.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: It doesn't it doesn't turn on so automatically like the
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: sympathetic does.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And I think those words don are very pertinent here,
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: and conscious intentional focus. I often talk in workshops to
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: people to busy corporates, and I say to them, there
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: is a big difference between relaxation and recovery. I said,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: having your feet up watching Netflix with a bottle of
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: wine is not recovery. It's relaxation. It's very different. Gravy
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and being on social media. You know, these things are
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: actually low level stimulators of our sympathetic nervous system. People
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: think they're recovering from the day, but they're actually not
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: really recovering, are they.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: No? No, and stress that that lingers in the system
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: turns into anxiety and ultimately burnout and depression. So unless
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: you're proactive, you can expect that sharks and traumas, even
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: though you seem to recover from them, there's a lingering residue,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: and that residue piles up. And that's what's so cool
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: about breath work. You get to get in and clean
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: all that stuff out and come back to a more
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: balanced state. But we just get accustomed to being unnatural.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: It becomes it feels normal to be sort of, you know,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: on edge all the time. We don't even reckcognized that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: we are until you have a profound experience of relaxation
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: and they go, oh my god, this is taking to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: feel like this.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Let's talk.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Let's not resonant frequency breathing, right, which is and I'll
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: let you expand on it, but basically it's a it's
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: a breathing rate that is personalized, that connects the lungs,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: the heart, and the brain. And but but you can
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: do a general like if you look in the literature,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: the academic literature, it will say lots of people will
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: get most of the benefits without knowing their their true
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: resin frequency. Most people will get a lot of the
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: benefits from a ten second breath cycle. Now I've read
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: a number of different studies they talk about a ten
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: second breath cycle and use randomized control trials. One that
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: was really partner that actually read a year or two ago,
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: was it was using and it called a resident frequency breathing,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: but it was measuring levels of amyloid beta in the blood,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: which are basically the tangles and proteins that accumulate in
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the brain with Alzheimer's disease, but they also get into
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: the blood stream, and it showed that a couple of
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: months of doing resin frequency breathing actually cleared those amyloid beta.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: But they used a five in five out and I
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: hear a lot about the five in five out, But
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: my preference has always been for the longer breath out because,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: as you really pointed out at the start, when you
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: breathe in, you temporarily switch on your sympathetic nervous system.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Anybody can do this with a heart rate monitor. Take
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: a long, slow breath in, they'll see their heart rate
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: increase two or three beats, and then you do a
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: longer breath out and you'll see your heart rate relax.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: What's your view on this is five and five. It's
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: just how we talked. We took a ten second breath cycle.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Then we can get onto the personalized If you were
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: doing a ten second breath cycle, would you do five
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: to five, would you do in for four, out for six,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: would you do in for three, ut for seven? What
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: would your preference be? And then let's talk about personalization.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Back in the early seven when I was in
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: DeepC diver, there's special operations. I don water, medical rescue,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I preath holding, and we discovered that between four and
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: eight breaths a minute, we called it a therapeutic zone.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: When you start to get anxious, you start to get down.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: You're in your job and you can measure it. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to divers, I'm up on top side, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I can I can hear them breathing, and I can
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: tell when they're holding their breath. I can tell when
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: they're you know, getting anxious, and would all say, hey,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: take your time, slow your breath, take a breath. And
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: so we we found that anywhere between four and eight
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: breaths a minute is what we call the therapeutic zone.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Well co breath, the resonant breathing. What you mentioned is
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: is six breaths a minute, which is five seconds in,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: five seconds out. So it's dead center in what we
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: identified forty years ago as therapeutic zone. So it makes
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: perfect sense, and you can catch eighty percent of the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: population at five seconds in, five seconds out, in five
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: seconds out. Now now they've tweaked it and they found
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that the ideal is like five point five breaths a minute,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: which might be five seconds in six or doing. That's
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: how I'm monitor now. If I'm leaning in relaxation, I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: do five seconds in seconds out. That's an eleven second
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: breathing cycle. And if I want to kind of just
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: remain calmly alert, I'll breathe in six and out five right,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So if I want it perfectly balanced, I'll make them
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: perfectly equal. If I want to just lean into alertness,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I'll just give that extra second that I have to
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: play with towards the end. If I want to lean
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: into relaxation, I give that extra second on the exhale.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: But you can catch a good solid eighty percent of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the population easily. Tony Robbins, for example, you know, six
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: foot seven, he's closer to four breaths a minute to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: get into what I would do. You know, five or
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: six breasts a minute, and a child or someone small,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: they're closer to six or seven breaths a minute, and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: some even eight. But as soon as you get under ten,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: you're already you know, that's that's rare because most people
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: are sixteen to twenty twenty five without realizing their average
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: breath rate. That's why the mattic things happen. As soon
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: as they slow down to any extent, they interrupt that
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: me and immediately everything starts to come into play. Hey,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: here's something for very recent Stephen Elliett. He was one
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: of the original people who he turned the coin Coherent
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Breathing his website Coherent Breathing dot com coherence dot com. Yes,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: he just sent me a copy of the letter is
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: sent to the surgeon in general, what is the cause
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: of hypertension? Essential hypertension, which is high blood pressure for
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: no known real cause. It is an epidemic and there
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: world millions and millions of people have essential hypertension high
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: blood pressure for seemingly no cause. The cause of it
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: is the lack of breathing a depth is because he
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: recognizes that the breathing system is not just a respiratory function.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: It's a circulatory function. The heart and lungs are supposed
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: to be working together to pump blood and the other
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: thirty leaders of whatever fluids that we have in the body.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: And so if you are not breathing a depth, you're
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: making your heart do all the work. And so your
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: heart blood pressure goes up. As soon as you start
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: slowing down your breathing and breathing diagmatically, it relieves the
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: heart from having to do all the work. That's why
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: anybody can lower their blood pressure by slowing your breathing
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: down and breathing into your diaphragm. So something that simple
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: is responsible for a whole host of issues and deficits
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and problems that are unrecognized and misdiagnosed and really the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: problem is a breathing problem, and you correct the breathing
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: and you eliminate things like chronic fatigue and irritable bowels,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the whole list of stuff that's affected, you know, by breathing.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: And most doctors they're not trained to recognize or deal
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: with breathing, and so they they pop you a pill.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: They just assume, oh, this, this is anxiety, is stress,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: it's this, it's that, and it's really terrible breathing habits, unresourceful, unconscious.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Breathing down before we move on and talk about other
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: types of breathing. Let let let let's stick with the
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: resonance and this low control breathing. What's your thoughts on
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: the idea of getting a personalized breathing rate that is
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: linked to your resting heart rate. So, if you're resting
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: heart rate is sixty beats a minute, you breathe, it's
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: six breaths per minute, right, which is a ten second
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: breath cycle. If you're resting heart rate is fifty beats
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: a minute, you do a twelve second breath cycle. So
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: I think heart math us this and a few others.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Brand Resource Institute have used this. What's your thoughts on
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: that on having that heart lung coherence.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a generalization, very true, very accurate. However, I
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: could be breathing at that resonant frequency. But am I relaxing?
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Am I forcing? Am I pushing? Am I using unnecessary muscles?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: All that is part of It's not just a breathing rate.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: It's the quality of the breath. It's what are you
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: thinking about. I could be breathing at a perfectly coherent rate,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: but I'm thinking about Chile, my freaking neighbor, or I'm
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a and so the breathing rate and that point you
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: might as well be a neutral feature because my intention
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and my consciousness and the tension and my jaw on
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: my neck and my shoulders and my fists, all of
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: that just blows away the benefit. So what's your intention,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: what's your focus? What are you doing with the muscles
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: in your body? What are you telling yourself? All of
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: this stuff, to me is just as powerful, and often
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: more powerful than the than the technical measured rates and
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: so on of the breathing. It's just as important, and
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I think even more important because I've done a lot
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: about feet and I get slow my heart down while
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I'm inhaling. I can speed my heart up while I'm exhaling,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So we can override these natural things. If you deliberately
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: screw yourself up, you can. You can be out of
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: whack without realizing it, and the So there's more to
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: it than just measuring the rate. But that's a great
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: place to start, and that you're anchored and measurable. Something
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: measurable because everything else is kind of hard to think,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to grab. So as a baseline,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: get in the door, get your foot in the door
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: on this stuff. Yeah, work with a good breathing rate four, five, six, seven,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: anywhere in that zone. Aim for six, and then tweak
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: for comfort. You know, when I was playing with my
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: blood pressure, and I play a lot with it, experimenting, exploring.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: A few times I had some major incidents in my life,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize my blood pressure had gone up, and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: so I was very consciously and deliberately monitoring it, playing
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: with it, and I realized that the relaxation and the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: quality of the breath was what was really important, not
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: the volume, not the speed, not the rate. In general,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you've got to be in a certain range there, but
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the quality of the breath made a much better a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: good difference then the exact rate of the volume of
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the speed.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and what about so my PhD supervisor or my
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: ex PhD supervisor when when I was doing it, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: he had a lot and they were doing a lot
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: of work with the Australian military and looking and testing
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: different breathing rates on on autonomic nervous system and they
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: actually landed what they find in having a whole heap
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: of guys come in and testing them. The thing that
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: seemed to work best for them was what they called
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: the lowest comfortable breathing rate, where they took a large
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: breath in and then just breathed out as slow as
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they could without stress overstressing the system.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Don't blow, don't push, don't squeeze, I just let it
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: flow out. Yeah, that's a good the lowest, the slowest
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: comfortable pace because if you try to slow your breathing down,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: that can cause stress because it's not your head, it's
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: not comfortable, is not familiar, You're using artificial accessory muscles
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: in your So that's really good and I would I'd
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: agree with that one hundred percent. The comfortable aspect is
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: that the comfortable and slowest there it is.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Boom, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to throw out probably a very easy
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: one here. A short answers are kneezle breathing versus marth breathing.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the nose is meant to breathe through
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: hairs that filter dust, conditions, The air warms, it cools it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You've got terbinates that make the air spiral. Why would
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: nature want the air to be spiraling? It lets the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: brain know that you're breathing. Yeah. If your habit is
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: not nose breathing, start there. Do whatever it takes. Tape
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: your mouth shut, whatever it takes to make sure that
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you develop the unconscious habit of nose breathing and being
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: public speakers and so on. We have to consciously shut
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: up and take a breath I we're talking, Otherwise you're
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: going to become a mouth breather without really talk talk
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: top talk talk talk talk top. And so if you're
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: not conscious to really come back, and that nasal breathing
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: very very important. It has to be your unconscious habit. However,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there are really beautiful, powerful and important reasons for breathing
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: through the mouth at certain problems, for certain purposes. I
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: think of it like house cleaning. If you've abandoned a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: house for ten years and you go back in there
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: and you want to live in it, you're gonna find
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: dead pigeons, vandals have been in there, there's garbage, broken furniture.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: You don't start by polishing the silverware or dust the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: window sills. You shovel all the heavy crap out first.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So I think mouth breathing is kind of deep. Get
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: all the heavy, dense crap out, and nose breathing is
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: like fine tune cleaning. So something with with trauma, with stress,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: with built up toxins, let's let's let's let's shovel the
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: heavy stuff out with some mouth breathing and then switch
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the nose breathing. But there are certain people with therapeutic issues,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: psychiatric issues you want a tiptoe with. I'm talking about
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: the normal range of people.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and and the guy had I
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: had broken nose since I was a kid, the names
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: a boxer and really fucked it up and had a
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: deviated scept them for many years, and and then got
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: my my septim fixed and ah, my god, being able
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: to breathe through my nose. But to your point, Dan,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I had to then start mouse taping at night to
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: tree retreatin myself to breathe through my nose and gnaw.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: It's automatic because you think about it, if you're in
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: bed for eight rs of the day, there's a third
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: of the day that you're training, right, People don't go
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: to the gym for a third of the day.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And it's really useful. I think.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I think the only rider we say is just if
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: you're a snorer, get checked for sleep apnea, because if
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: you've got sleep apne, you don't want to be mouse tipping.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Probably the one rider on the on the mouse tipping,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: isn't it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah. Nasal passage resistance. Boy, that's
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: responsible for a lot of a lot of issues, and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: in children especially. You got to listen in on your
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: child when they're sleeping and make sure they're not breathing
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: through their mouth and do whatever. Yeah, really important because
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: how the face developed so many things, just a chain reaction. Yeah,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: on mouth breathers versus noles breathers. So it's got to
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: be your unconscious habit.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. Cool.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Now let's let's get into the really interesting shit, right,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about the fast pieced breathing, and you know
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: whether it's turmo holotropic, and you can maybe give us
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: some of the different techniques. But but first of all,
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: before we go into the techniques, I really want to
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: explore the physiology, right because when you're doing that fast
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: paced breathing, you're blowing off CO two and that low
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: CEO two changes cerebral blood flow in the brain, makes
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: you feel a bit woozy, but also is a hormetic
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: stressor for the brain. And both low CEO two and
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: a little bit of high seal turn a little bit
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: of transient hypoxya as well.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: It's a hormetic stressor for the brain.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: So and then you know the activation of the sympathetic
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: nervous system. Let's take our listeners on a journey as
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: to what happens. And whether you want to describe the
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: practice first in the physiology or do it the other
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: way up to you, but just walk us through the
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: technique and the physiology.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, carbon dioxide CO two is a volatile acid.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: That means it's critical in maintaining the acid based balance
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: in the body. If you hold your breath, CO two
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: builds up if you overbreathe hyperventilate, you blow off CO
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: two and you tip the pH Fortunately it's there are
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: many redundant extra things to make sure it stays in
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the zone. So also, carbon dioxide is a vasodilator, so asthma,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: for example, is constriction of these bronchial vessels. And if
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: you can tolerate the symptoms of air hunger, that means
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: that you are tolerating higher levels of CO two. Once
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the CO two gets up to a good healthy level,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: it triggers its vasodilation microvessels in the brain, bronchial vessels,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: all the smooth muscles in the vessels of the body.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Carbon dioxide is what causes those to contract or relax.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: So there's a vicious cycle that when you don't think
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: you're getting enough breath and you try to breathe more,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you're actually you're blowing off more coon dioxide, which causes
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: more vasal constriction, which gives you even more panic. And
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: so it's a vicious So a secret ists practice gentle
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: pauses after the exhale and give your system a chance
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to come back into a decent level of coeal two.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Don't rush into the next inhale. So just the natural
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: breathing pattern to keep homeostasis, and you know everything imbalances
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: inhale exhale, pause, inhale exhale pause. This is a hardwired
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: we're sitting at rest. This is a natural breathing pattern
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: inhale exhale, and that pause and that pause needs to
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: be a comfort zone. It's like coming home, and you
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: want to make that a very important part of breathing,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: not just inhale and exhale, but that pause after the exhale,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: linger there for a few moments before you rush into
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: the next to inhale, and that's going to interrupt all
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: the mental activity that caused the mind to raise, is
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: going to chip away at the anxiety reactions and so on.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And so that's all physiological. Let's kickle and without realizing it,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: we're screwing our chemistry up. When we're not conscious of
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: our breathing, we have dysfunctional breathing habits. So it's directly
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: is a direct connection because of that carbon dioxide phenomenon
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: when somebody when you hold your breath and you feel
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: this powerful urge to breathe, it's not because of lack
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: of oxygen, it's because build up of CO two. So
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you don't need breathe. We're misreading the signals of air hunger.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: And I think Peter Lishfield, who's my go to guy,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: he says, we need one leader of air for every
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: leader of blood, and we're actually getting twenty leaders of
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: air for every leader of blood. So we're we don't
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: need to breathe any anywhere as much as we think
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: we do. And so getting comfortable with the slow breathing pattern,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Oh god, that's that shifts everything, and over time it
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: resets your system. You're not so you don't get irritated
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: so much, you don't get triggered so much, you're not
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: so reactive. That's all a result of this sympathetic just
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: right there. Yeah, ready to go, So.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Time just to jump in.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Also doesn't be taco breathing and work on that and
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: help people with that. And there's so many clinical benefits
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: of potaco breathing for people who have a re injured
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: different conditions.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I met. I spent a lot of time
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: with doctor Boteko. I was in Russian nineteen nineties studying
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: with him and Patrick McEwan. Oxygen advantage breathing, the bolt test,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you know, it's your bull test at the oxygen level test. Yeah,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: that's really And Patrick McEwen was a Boutago person, you know,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: so he went off, but he started, he healed himself
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: originally with Boutako method and then he went off on
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: his own. So oh yeah, if you have asthma, Boutako
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: what a what a what a brilliant intervention. Yeah, all
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: of his principles and also Patrick McEwan definitely definitely worth it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just give us, just give us a very
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: quick overview of what Bouteiko is actually all about.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was a Russian doctor who who realized that
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: people are overbreathing and that asthma. He considered that asthma,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: say fifty percent of asthma cases. Now even in the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: US medically they say thirty percent of people diagnosed with
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: asthma don't even have asthma. The asthma is actually the
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: body trying to preserve combon oxide, he says. So if
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: common oxide, you're blowing off too much common oxide, the
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: body will constrict the bronchio vessels to stop you from
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: blowing off more CO two. So it's a He recognized
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: that asthma wasn't a disease, it was the body trying
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: to preserve CO two because people were blowing off too
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: much CO two by breathing too deep, too fast, too much.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And that was his insight as a very young medical student.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Even and he sat with a couple of hundred people
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: while they died, and he and he observed this what's
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: it called shane stops in the latter just before a
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: person dies, very very often they take these huge, heaving
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: breaths money and then boom, they're out. And he saw
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: that happen so often that in his young medical student
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: mind thought deep breathing equals death. But that at least
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: it was you know, it was a childish conclusion, but
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: it pointed him in the right direction that, wow, let
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: me look at this. So and he had his success
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: rate with asthma was through the roof, and he had
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: very simple principles, only breathe through your nose. Practice these
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: pauses after the xcale, don't take breaths, receive the breaths.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: If you're going to focus on something, focus on the
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: exhale and let the inhale be reflexive. And then there's
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: another guy, Carl Stowe, who also is a US guy
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: doctor breath. They called him he used the counting method.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: He would just have people come out loud, take a
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: normal breath in one two, three, four, five, six, seven,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: eight nine ten, one two three, four, five, six, seven
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: eight nine ten one two three, four, five, six seven
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: eight nine ten, one two three, four, five, six, seven
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: eight nine ten, one two, three, four, five, six, seven
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: eight ninete one to three pot phisic seven eight nineteen
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: one two three pole pharsics. That was his whole training. Wow.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: And he said, because if you get people, if you
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: get people to think about their breathing, they're going to
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: do something unnatural. So you have to trick them into
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: breathing healthy. So he gets them focusing on counting, so
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: they're not focusing on breathing, they're focusing on counting, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: by lengthening that count, they're lengthening the exhale. And then
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and then if you squeeze, squeeze, count yourself out of breath.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Then when you relax, the breath pours in by itself.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: It's a reflexive. It's very natural because when people try
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: to breathe in they use accessory muscles. Neck muscles show
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: the muscle then and they just make everything worse because
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: they're using muscles that don't belong in the breathing practice.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So by allowing the inhale to be reflexive, the system
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: can come into balance. And then as long as the
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: exhale is long and smooth and soothing and not forced
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: or strained, now you're heading, you're starting to you know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: really reset the system.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: So before before we talk about the fast paced breaking
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and the blowing off CO two, let's just stay on
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: CO two tolerance. Because so your background with divers, A
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: lot of divers, a lot of free divers will do
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: coeal two tolerance training and the whole boat test, a
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: lot of athletes will do it.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And actually, high long.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: That somebody can tolerate CO two is quite a good
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: predictor of whether or not they'll they'll they'll pass special
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Forces selection training.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Right, So there's crazy stuff about.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: So what are some of the benefits of CO two
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: tolerance training that you may have come across.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Look at it in terms of like breath holding practice,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: because a lot of it that's what it ends up
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: being in practical practice. Right, what's the value of breath holding?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: The urge to breathe is the most powerful biological urge
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: that we have, and if you can relax in the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: presence of that urge, you can relax anywhere. That's and
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: that's directly related to CO two because the longer you
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: hold your breath, the longer you the higher your CEO
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: two gets. And if you can still remain relaxed without
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: realizing it, that's what you're playing with. So so that's
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the value of breath holding. You get comfortable with higher
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and higher levels of CO two. You're learning to relax
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: when your system just wants to hijack you. And of
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: course for special forces, that's what you need. You need
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: somebody who can override those the panic and those urges
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: and get a handle on that stuff. So while the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: benefit and the value is tremendous, but it really needs
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: to be supervised. And because when I was, you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I was practicing the stuff in nineteen seventy, we didn't
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: even have protocols. It was every man f himself. We
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: were just having contests who they helped it hole they
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: bread the longest, you know, and several times you get
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: so good at holding your breath, So the COEO two
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: levels going up, up, up, and you're fighting it. You're
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: fighting it. You're getting better and better with practice week
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: after week, day after day, month after month. Pretty soon
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: you're tolerating this huge high level of coeal two. But
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: while you're not aware of it, the oxygen level is
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: going down. Yes, yeah, And when the oxygen level gets
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: to a certain critical point, there is no warning. You
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: don't have any premonition. It's the lights just go out
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: with no warning, out of the blue. And that's called
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: shallow water blackout. If it happens during a folding dive.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: You no, no beginner divers ever offer from shallow water blackout.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: It's always very seasoned experienced divers because they got so
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: damn good at fighting off the CO two that the
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: low O two sneaks up on them. Yeah, and it's
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: usually just before they get to the surface.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: And there's no wanting to go and don That is
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: a big reason why you should never do this type
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: of training in water, right, and unless you're experienced diver
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: and you've got buddies. But it's certainly not a technique
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: that you should do in your back and in your
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: back poll to try and increase your bath hold under water,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: because you can't die.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And even the professionals and the world champions, they don't
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: practice in the water alone. They're smart enough to know
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: that they can get in their own way. And that's
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: why I quit free diving. I knew where it was going,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: because you don't know, You don't know you've gone too
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: far until you've gone too far, and then it's too late.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So I could read the writing on the wall I
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: was getting. I had the record in the Navy from
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy six for breath will pretty
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: much yeah, And I saw where that was going because
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I got so good at holding my breath that that
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I was getting in my own way, in my own Yes,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: very dangerous. So definitely don't practice in the water, and
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: if you do, you better make sure you have a
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: couple of people helping supporting.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's not Let's get to the really interesting shit
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: for me, right, which is the somewhat the fast paced breathing,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: the controlled hyperventilation they call it what you want, but
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: the blowing off of CO two and that activation of
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: the sympathetic nervous system, the big dump of adrenaline or
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: epinephron as you call it, across the water and the
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: impact on cerebral blood flow, the impact on Brian area
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: activation like pariacuaductyor gray like, there's.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Just cree easy shit that we're only starting to see now.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Talk us through this and then we can get into
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: techniques around it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, so you're getting into the whim Hoff territory. He's
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: he's the most famous one for recognizing and putting it
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: into a system and playing with it. Yeah, altered states,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: ecstatic states, non ordinary states of consciousness, psychedelic states, you know,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: theta delta states, brainwaves. All these things come about through
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about, deliberately getting the system out of
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: balance and because then you access these non ordinary states
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of consciousness. But it's very much like the early LSD research.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: There's just life of them. They couldn't duplicate this up
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: in the lab. Everybody is so unique, same dosage, the
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: same person, same dosage, different trip. You just can't wrap.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: So we don't know how to talk about this. And
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: that's what you're bringing up. All the crazy shit that
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: comes up when you go in the other direction and
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you deliberately hyperactivate the sympathetic branch and you get comfortable
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: with that and you can be in a calm, central
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: place even though your system is you know, you're you're
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: in an eye of the storm, and that's powerful to
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: be able to manage those powerful energies and be able
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: to connect to dimensions or states of consciousness that are
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: not ordinary. People talk about them as like peak religious
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: states or psychedelic states. Are you know, estosa sounds very
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: woo woo, you know, because the language for yeah.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: And there are people who will be listening to this
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: going fucking hell, this is woo woo. And there are
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: people who have done this who are all nodding their
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: heads and going yep. I've been there, and I can
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: tell you I have taken ayahuasca in the jungle. I
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: have been in a number of different non ordinary states
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: of consciousness, and I have been in non ordinary states
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: of consciouness breathing with you and doing some other breath
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: work sessions, and all of them seem to be that
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: blowing off of the CO two, the activation and sympathetic
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: nervous system. But for me, the interesting thing, and this
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I'd love to do the research, is what's happening with
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: the neurotransmitters in the brain.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So there is some.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: Research that I'd seen that that is suggesting that maybe
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: the natural body's natural opioid system and the end of
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: cannabinoid system are activated with the reductions in cerebral blood flow.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: And that seems to be interesting. I would imagine that
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: serotonin is involved in this. But but to your point,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: freaking hard to measure, right, And they and the part of.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: The brain that allows us to make sense of it
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: and understand that that's the part of the brain that
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: gets shut off. It's like you interstate, but then when
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: you come back to your normal state, there's no bridge,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: there's no way to bring with you what you got
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: because through hyperventilation, you can you can reduce the supply
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: of oxygen to the brain, you know, by in half
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: in a minute. Anybody can just by hyperventilating. Yes, so
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: hyperventilation caused all that vaso constriction in the brain the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: microvessels stops the blood from getting to the brain and
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: the nutrients. And yeah, so, but seems on the other
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: side of that, or alongside of that, we have faculties
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: or abilities that we were never forced to kind of
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: uncover in crisis states. People don't like the flow states.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: You know, time something happens to time your sense of
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: self disappears. You got this feeling of connection to the
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: whole universe here the flow state, being in the zone runners.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: I can remember as a young kid listening to Mario
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Andretti say that when he was going around the track
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: at two hundred miles an hour, he could pick out
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: individual faces in the crowd one hundred thousand people in
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: that stadium and he and he wasn't joking, he was
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: sharing something real that he could get detailed faces in
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: that crowd while he's driving two hundred miles an hour
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: and one hundred thousand people. And Ted Williams, who I met.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I lived right by Ted Williams camp. He form one
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: of the best baseball players of all time. He said
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: he could see the stitches on the baseball when the
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: picture was adam. So that's being in the flow. That's
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: that's accessing this non ordinary states of consciousness. And people
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: stumble over it intuitively, they develop unconscious habits that contribute
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: to it. Sometimes just pure sheer will unlocks it. Sometimes
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: a crisis unlocks it, and sometimes a high, you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: inspirational experience unlocks it. And it gives people that it's
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: kind of a key to unlocking these other capacities. I mean,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: we know that what we see is only a tiny
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum. Yes, we see the RAI
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: road track. It looks like it meets in the distance.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: We know that our senses are blocking more than they're
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: giving us in many ways. And the capacity for the mind,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: the little narrow connection that we have to our thinking mind,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: is limited more of life and reality than is revealing.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: And there's something about opening and expanding and relaxing and
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: letting go. And for me that's in fifty years of
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: teaching and practicing and helping people in states and see
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: them spontaneously come these there are certain elements that I
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: found are vital. They're part of the formula. And one
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: is this ability to open and expand, open and expand
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: your mind open, expand your body, open and expand your structures,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: open and expand emotionally, intellectually, this whole energetically, to just
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: open and expand get out of a narrow box that
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: we're living in. And the other people relax and let go.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: But most people they're afraid to relax and let go.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Something terrible will happen if they do. When they were
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: traumatized or abused as children, it was because they were
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: in the most vulnerable open state, and they learned that
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: that's a dangerous place to be. And without realizing it,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: we're avoiding the very state that holds all the potential
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: for us. And I love talking about the relaxation aspect
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: because it goes it's not recognized as important as it is.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: So think about this. During your most relaxed moments of
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: your day, you're literally sleeping. I mean when you're in
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: a deep, profound sleep. That's when you're most relaxed. And
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: so most people have never been awake to experience that
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: deep relaxation because it only happens when they go unconscious.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: And so when that relaxation happens in you're conscious, people
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: talk about it like a religious experience the first time.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Never been totally relaxed and wide awake. It's like a
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: peak religious experience. And so that's what's missing. If you
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: if you the average person relaxes and relaxes and relaxes
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: pretty soon fast asleep. The average person's reaction to relaxation
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: is sleep. And so what we need to do is
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: we need to get better and better at relaxation while
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: getting more and more awake. The only way to stay
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: awake is to use your breathing to keep energizing yourself.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: So that's the key is finding this balance between active
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: breathing and relaxation. And that's where these hyper ventilation kind
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: of practices that trigger all these psychdelic states. That's what
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: people are evidently stumbling over. So the inhale active and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: the exhale passive inhale active exhale passes. Now you're going
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: step by step. You're activating in a lit in a week,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: relaxing relaxing, and it pretty soon those two things come together.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Usually people sacrifice one for the other. When they breathe
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: in a deep, powerful way, they don't relax, and when
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: they relax, they don't breathe. And it's a skill, it's
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: an art to not give up one for the other
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: to get, but to get more of both, and that's
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: what unlocks these states.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: You just give me a flashback to I think it
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: was maybe twenty seventeen when I was in your workshop
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: and doing the breathing, and I think we were going
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: for about forty five minutes and you can rind to
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: me and you said, just let the breath go, relax
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: your breath out.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: You're pushing too much. I just remember that, and that's
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: boom what you're talking about.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: We can't talk about these non ordinary states of consciousness
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: without mentioning DMT. I think anybody who's listening to this,
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: who's done some of this for lawn breathing will be going, we'll.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Be shouting DMT.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: DMT, right, which is a chemical in thebris and that's
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: released naturally in two part times of your life, once
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: at birth and once at death. And people think that
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: that's the whole tunnel and the light and all of that,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: and that that open expansion experience. Any thoughts do you
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: have anything, because because a lot of this is conjecture
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: because it hasn't actually been physically measured, any personal thoughts
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: on this?
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: No, I think we are. I think we do. And
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people teaching breathing. They call it
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: DMT breathing, and yes, Google you can find people doing
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: offering these and the yogis. They figured out, hey, a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: lot of these states of the yogis's due to these
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: chemicals dmds. So yeah, I think people are accidentally stumbling over,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: pulling certain triggers and activating certain chemical shifts. I think
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: that's happening. But it's right. It's hard to measure and
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: it's hard to duplicate. So yeah, but I think it's
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: part of it. I mean, everything's chemistry on level. Uh,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: you know, the chemicals and tear drops of joy are
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: different than sadness, and our salivo when we're pissed off
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: and angry istally different than when we're peaceful. So I mean,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: everything's chemistry. But it's a chicken or an egg thing too, right,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: So if I put myself with me that is related
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to d MT, my brain is going to produce a
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: DMT just to kind of like, you know, keep it
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: and vice versa. So it's a chicken or an egg thing.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I think. I I think we can transcend the bodymind
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: system in some ways, and we can up level the
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: bodymind system, and we can teach the bodymind system new
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: ways to respond. You know, where survived were running on
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: old survival programs, and I think that can all be
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: up leveled. And breath work, that's my my focus in
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: breath work is to just you know, we're running on
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: all survival programs that are outdated. We don't need them,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: but the system just is running on a habit. And
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: so I think with breath work, we can make some
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: real serious chemical shifts, not just momentary or temporary, but
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: general default states chemically can shift and change. And now
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: you're into brain waves, right, because all those chemicals also
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: relate to alpha beta data the VADA lay. So yeah,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: it's uh, there's.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: So much potential study to be done in this.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: But the problem is is that we we can't just
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: live sample neurotransmitters in the Brian with people. We can
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: stick them in an fl fMRI scanner, and some of
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: that is now being done, which is interesting, but that's
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: not the be all and end all.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think that brings me on to some of.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: That want to talk about, which was in these these
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: breathwork states that the hyperventilation, holotropic, whatever you want to
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: call it. I have witnessed with you, I'm with others
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: doing this, people who have been through trauma having significant releases.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: So what you kind of alluded a little bit to
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: what might be happening, But watch yours that you will
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: have seen this on so many different times. What do
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: you think is going on here? I mean, this is
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Basil vander Cox. The body keeps the score, right. I
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: think this plays into it a little bit. But what
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: do you think is going on?
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Having been somebody who's been at this for fifty years.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I came out of the Vietnam Era
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: and I lost four five friends to suicide PTSD just
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: could Yeah, they were they were just stuck.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Where where My formula involves three that we have to
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: become more mindful. We have to become more conscious. We
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: have to develop interception. We're afraid to feel things, and
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: and the stuff you don't feel gets suppressed and it
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: comes up in ugly ways, and it blocks the flow
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: of energy. You know in the East, you know, they're
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: these knotties one hundred thousand tiny energy channels acupunch of meridians,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: and you start thinking in terms of energy and blockages
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: of energy, and that creates a chain reaction, right, you know,
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Toxins build up in your system and and and so
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: breathing is kind of like a rotor router to blast
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: away all these blocked energy channels. And trauma is stored
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: in the body and and and suppressed emotions are stored
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: in the body. And that's why people live in their
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: head because it's too uncomfortable to be in their body
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: with all this stuff. That's stored there. Barnett Baine, the
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Book of Doing and Being one of my favorite guys.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: He talks about if you take a puppy away from
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: its mother, you you're gonna hear from both of them.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Mother's not happy. Where are you going with my puppy?
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: And the puppy feels what Barnett would call overwhelming feelings
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: of aliveness. They are distressing feelings of aliveness, but they
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: are feelings of aliveness. Nonetheless, you've severed an energetic bond
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: between the mother and the baby, and that causes horrible,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable feelings in the body of the baby. So what
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: do you do to escape those feelings? You gotta leave
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: your body. You go unconscious, you numb yourself, you detach
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: you in your right. And so getting to early traumas
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: is really important because I think a lot of the
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: traumas that we experience are replaying in one version or
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: another of an early original trauma. And when I first
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: got into breath work, when I as soon as got
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: out of the military, I got into rebirthing, and that
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: was about birth trauma and how that laid down a
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: pattern for all the rest of your life. Life is
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: a struggle. I can't get what I want. The universe
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: is against me. That first breath hurts so much that
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: you never took another full breath after that. And that
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: was my introduction into the connection here between the emotional,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: psychological the trauma stuff. And you can't think your way
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: out of trauma because it's physical. It's a month. It's
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: like trying to stort.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Your way out of a cocaine habit don.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, yeah, But it's also trying to explain this stuff.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Is trying to explain the kaleidoscope to You can't explain it.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: You have to experience it now substantute for experience.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: This is a pointing question, right, because if there are
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: any psychologists listening to this, right, they will be going
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: people should not be fucking doing that. They should not
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: be in breath work and investigating trauma and stuff like that.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: And I'll tell you so my experience in this, I've
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: never had any trauma. I've been to lots of breath work,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: and I've seen all around people having these releases and
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: talking about them afterwards. And then my little guy who's
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: fifteen years old, a couple of years ago, after he
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: had Cushing's disease, which is a horrible disease that give
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: him shocking mental health issues, and the psychologists were shit.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: They just wanted to label him with an eating disorder,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: which he had disordered eating because of the Cushing's disease
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: and the obsessive compulsive staff. Right, he went to a
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: breath work session with Barney locally, did all of this
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: breathing and started crying uncontrollably.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I had no idea what was going on, but didn't
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: feel upset. And then afterwards he said he had a release.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: And then the next time we talked about every time
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: we talked about Cushing's disease, he would well up and
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: he couldn't.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Talk about it. And after that bomb, he could just
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: talk about it and it was all gone.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: And he actually said to me as a fifteen year old,
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: he said to me, a couple of weeks ago, Dad,
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: we were talking about psychologists and the whole labeling and
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: stuff like that, and he said to me, if I
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: ever have mental health issues, I'm going nowhere near a psychologist.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to a breath work session. Right.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: And the psychology not like that. But they don't own
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: mental health. They don't own this pace right, that's the key.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: I'm going to PASD in psychology. I know a lot
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: about it, but I'm mad at to.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: A psychotherapist, a depth psychotherapist. I have so many friends
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: as psychiatrists, psychologists. I've seen, not even exaggerating, thousands of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: people in the last fifty years teaching breath work get
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: over psychological and emotional issues just through breathing without talk
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: therapy in one session. And it's not exact, so something natural.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: It's a natural phenomenon that is getting triggered. When I
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: cut myself, my body heals itself. That should happen psychologically
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: and emotionally.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: It wants to happen.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: We must be doing something to get in the way.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And I love psychologists. I trained psychologists. If you're a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: psychologist and you include breath work and your practice, you're
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: going to be an even better one. Not doubt about it.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Great, but.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: We have natural healing capacities. The human every the body
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: wants to heal itself, the mind wants to heal itself,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: and we just got to help it at least stop
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: getting in the way of it. That's a good start.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Breath holding, you're getting in the way of it. Tensing up,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: you're getting in the way of it. So just breathe
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: and relax, and already the body is going to be
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: able to do more. And if you can breathe and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: relax for an extended period of time, then your body
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: mind system has a real chance to do some deep
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: repair and healing and recovery and release. And yeah, there's
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: too many. The evidence is just overwhelming. There's no nobody
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: can logically argue with it anymore because there's just too many,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: too much evidence holotropic breath work, and you know, there
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: were just the list goes on and on. I don't
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: think there are any psychologists. They're all holding out at
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: the moment saying that breathing doesn't help, you know. I
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: don't think there's too many left.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's suppose it.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: If they if they look into it, that they it
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: is and if they experienced it, if they were indiverse,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: they would see it.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: But I've had a lot of medical doctors, you know,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: people have you start having the symptoms of hyperventilation during
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: a breathing session and the doctor goes, well, yeah, of course,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: because low CO two you got to add ALTHI it's
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: not blah blah, blah, and they have all this medical
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: understanding of it, and it almost gets in the way
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: of something natural that's trying to happen. We put on
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: top of it what we know and what we think,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: and so there's enough of that in the world. We
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: need to inside out kind of healing process and not
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: a come from above and outside in and that's what
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: breathing is. And and as soon as a medical doctor,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: and I've had very skeptical medical doctors, once they have
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: an experience, then they're encouraging their patients. They say, look,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I can't explain you, but it'll help you. Go ahead
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: and do it. So but they need to have their
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: own experience to feel comfortable about advising other people. So
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: that's the answer. We just got to get more psychologists,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: more doctors doing the practice, and then they hey, the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: proof is in the pudding, and then they'll find a
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: talk about it. And it's happening a lot of psychotherapists
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: in a lot of countries in Europe, breath work is
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: a module in their psychotherapy training.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's cool, I see built in already and
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: about time. I actually think, just as a little aside
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: that CO two tolerance training can be very very useful
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: for people with anxiety, particularly anxiety that's not extreme.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I think that and greeted.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: Progressive overload physical activity of increasing intensity so that they
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: learn to deal with the adrenaline because for me, a
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: lot of it is just about and an inability to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: tolerate high levels of adrenaline and and the associated feelings
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: that go with it.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Hey, listen for the seal too, doctor Peter Litchfield. Uh,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: and he's now got this. He does capnography and capnometry
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: and uh oh, it's uh, it's the cutting edge in
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: real time. Just showing what CO two does to cognition,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: reaction time unarguable. One little tweak and the breathing and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: immediately instantly symptoms and issues and deficits immediately effect is
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: just unarguable. And now he's it's the technology is with
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: the wearable technologies and the breathing monitors, they're they're tweaking
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: it and it's uh, it's very cool. There's no technolo.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: You are giving us a big advantage. The old yogis
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: of ancient times. It took years and years and years
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: of trial and error. Now with the technology we've got boom,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you can you can zero right in on things. So
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: it's very cool.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: So donad we do need to wrap this up unfortune,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: But I've got another podcast, but just a quick one.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: In terms of contraindications for different types of breath work,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: presumably almost everybody can do the slow control breathing, any
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: cultra indications for seal two tolerance straining and particularly for
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: the controlled hyperventilation, and what can people do on their
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: own and what do they need guide to practice around.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: If you do little bits, you know, thirty seconds of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: active breathing followed by beautiful long size and meditation, you're
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: not going to go too far if you push and
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: strain yourself. But if you have heart problems, if you're
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: you know, compulsive obsessive, if you don't want to get
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: caught into counting and having it be perfectly you know,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: I just dealt with somebody with compulsive We're compulsive of
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: any of that thing, and like the worst thing is
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: having them count four seconds in four seconds. Just practice
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: awareness and just enjoy the sensations. Don't don't try to
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: be perfect, don't try to measure. And people who are
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: on lithium, I think that's used for bipolar.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you got a tiptoe, be gentle, even people with
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: heart issues, pregnant women.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: You can do all that stuff, just modulated on the
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: gentle side, and then everything's okay. Just be a little
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: more gentle, a little slower, take your time, don't push.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, somebody can bend over and pick up a
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: weight and spring their back. That doesn't mean that weightlifting
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: is bad. Small weights and you build up and you
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: practice good form, and same thing with breathing. You don't
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: have to shy away from it. Just be conscious, take
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: a time, be gentle, and you and you just keep
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: getting better and better.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: Don In an era and nigh where breathwork has become
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: trendy and it's not its own standalone biohack, it is
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: pretty awesome to have the guru of breathwork training that
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Vim Hoff's the famous dude. You're the guru. You're the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: one that's been around.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was doing this long before it was a thing.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: You know. I'm glad the world caught up. I used
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: to feel like a voice crying out in the desert
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: even when I was in the military. Brew him in
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: that breathing meeting ship, you know, meditations. But now maybe
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: seals are being forced to practice breathwork. They you can't
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: get around it anymore. So thank god, thank god science
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: medicine is waking up and catching up.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah to me, where can people go to find out
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: more about you? And folks? Courses? Those sorts of things
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: online stuff? What do be gone?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you? Thank you? Yeah, breathmastery dot com, breadmastery dot com.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: I'm on Instagram at Dan Brule Official. Easier you google
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: breath work. It's hard to not bump into me. But
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: breathmaster dot com is my website and you'll find there.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: We have a I've written an article about breathing every
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: month or published a report since June of nineteen seventy six,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: and I've never missed a month.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: So the archives, Yeah, that's what you call an obsession.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: June of nineteen seventy I published my first article University
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: of Massachusetts and I've never missed a month since then.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: So you're just you're just shy of fifty years of
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: an article every month.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: That is dedication to the craft.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: It's more than yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: breathmaster dot com my archives. It'll take you years to
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: literally and uh Instagram at dan Play Official, and I've
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: got a bunch of online courses free ones, paid ones.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I I certified practitioners, so you get your feet wet.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: And then I'm I'm always wondering what's the next higher possibility,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: you know, what's the maximum potential. I'm I'm hungry for
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: people who that's what they're after, you know, and let's
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: let's find out together.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very cool.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: Well, well Don, you weren't you were the guy who
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: put a rocket chip under my interests.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I was interested, and then I went to years and
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: I was I was converted.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: So so thank you for for really bringing me into
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: the breath work world, and as you have done many
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: many other people. Uh and yeah, keep doing what you're doing,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: and hopefully we got monthly articles for you for many
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: years to come.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. My this October article just went out today,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: I think, so there you have it.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Excellent, great stuff. Thanks Don.