Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Your Employees Don't Understand Their Benefits—and That's Costing You Everything: Shannon Nelson on the Misalignment Most Companies Ignore
Transcript
- Kelsey Willock (00:01) Welcome Shannon Nelson, Director of Global Benefits at Anthology. We are so beyond excited to have you today, especially as we kick off the new year. For us to start this conversation, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience, share a little bit about your career and background, where you're calling in from and your current role today. Shannon Nelson (00:19) Yeah, well, thank you, Kelsey, so much for having me today. ⁓ As you mentioned, I'm Shannon Nelson, and I'm based out of Houston, Texas, and I'm the Director of Global Benefits for Anthology. Although most people in the tech space know us better as Blackboard, I am very, very lucky that in my role, I get the opportunity to design and implement and manage our benefit programs to employees across the globe. And really, at the heart of it, my passion is to kind of find that intersection between ⁓ what it is that the benefit and the talent needs are and bridging that with what the employees are actually finding valuable. ⁓ I'm very lucky that I've spent my HR and total rewards career in a bunch of different environments. I've moved from retail to nonprofit to now tech. And I think that mix has really helped shape what it is that I really bring to the table ⁓ and what my philosophy is overall related to total rewards. I really just try to be the partner who understands where the business is headed and also make sure that our employees feel supported along the way. Kelsey Willock (01:41) Well, I am delighted to have you today, Shannon, and I can't wait to dig deeper into all the amazing work that you have done and are doing today. But before we dig into that, I want to get to know you better a bit more personally. So if you'll indulge me, I'd love to start by learning a little bit more about your earliest money memory. Shannon Nelson (02:01) That's a really great question. ⁓ My first memory of money isn't so much about cash, actually. It's actually much more on the finance side. I grew up with parents who were small business owners, and up until they retired last year, so my entire life up until this point, ⁓ there really wasn't much separation at home between this work life and this home life. And so because of that, I remember all these conversations at the dinner table about what was going on at work. I remember monthly invoicing and reconciliation of accounts. I even specifically remember a time when they lost some large customers and sort of what that uncertainty meant. And so as a kid, I don't think I quite understood the concept of money, but I recognized at that age what sort of impact that day to day and what money had in terms of supporting our family, keeping their business running and, you know, keeping their employees employed essentially. Kelsey Willock (03:20) And how did it shape how you see security, freedom, or even responsibility? Shannon Nelson (03:27) Well, I'll say it, made me rethink being a small business owner ⁓ because ⁓ realizing that that level of uncertainty ⁓ was complicated for me. There was a ⁓ pro and con to seeing my parents live that way. There was some flexibility that they had, but there were absolutely some risks associated with it. ⁓ Kelsey Willock (03:31) Yeah Shannon Nelson (03:54) I know what it really instilled in me was a very, very strong work ethic. I can say that. Kelsey Willock (04:00) Thanks for sharing that with me. I asked this question to a lot of folks and so many of us have these early money memories of allowance or things like that. It sounds like for a very young age, you were thrust into this world where you really needed to be mature. Your parents were going through complex situations with money and you saw it on the ground. And I imagine it's translated into your work today in a level of higher responsibility. Shannon Nelson (04:27) I think it gives a different type of insight into how nobody follows the exact same path. Everybody's lives are a little bit different and how finances and money can really impact that as well. Kelsey Willock (04:37) the Absolutely. Can you tell me about your first job and if you remember what you did with your first paycheck? Shannon Nelson (04:50) ⁓ Yes, I very vividly remember first job and first paycheck because they're intrinsically aligned. ⁓ I was 15 and I was an usher at a music or concert venue near where I grew up. And I think my first paycheck was probably around $100. ⁓ I had that same reaction that I feel like every teenager gets with their first paycheck. Like it's the first introduction to taxes, right? Like, you know, who is FICA and what did they do with my money kind of situation? ⁓ I remember the feeling though, even though that check was only about a hundred dollars, I remember it felt kind of like freedom and independence, right? I no longer needed to go and ask my parents for, you know, to buy me things. I also remember having a real big sense of pride in that, you know, it kind of like being recognized for my skills and ability at that point. ⁓ I wish that I could say that I had that level of aptitude though in how I spent my first paycheck, but instead I used it to buy concert tickets at the exact same venue that I worked at. pretty much I paid them to let me work at the concert venue is kind of how that worked. 100%. I went to see Weezer and it was great. Yeah, it was fantastic. No regrets on that one for sure. Kelsey Willock (06:21) over who you saw. Oh, I'm moved. Absolutely not, and I imagine it was even better concert than if your parents had bought that ticket for you. Shannon Nelson (06:36) It felt very good, but I also remember thinking I probably could have just worked this concert and gotten paid to be here, but you know. Kelsey Willock (06:48) And one of my favorite questions to ask is, what is a recent embarrassing purchase that you've made? Shannon Nelson (06:54) Well, not the Weezer tickets, obviously. ⁓ Like a lot of people during the pandemic, I picked up some hobbies, right? And I started, was like, I'm gonna do an outdoor garden and went all in, right? Bought the seeds, bought the soil, built the raised beds, the whole thing. And I can actually see it out the window behind me. It is just like, Kelsey Willock (06:56) Thank Shannon Nelson (07:23) an overgrown patch of weeds at this point. ⁓ Probably it could be considered a protected wildlife habitat, I'm sure. And I wish that I could say that it's just a one-time embarrassing purchase, but it's really almost like an annual tradition at this point since 2020 because I keep telling myself this is going to be the year and I continue to just dump more money into it. And we'll say that it's an embarrassing purchase, but I feel like going and standing outside, even when it's a patch of weeds, is a win in the long run. Kelsey Willock (08:09) I'm just going to call it now. I feel like this is the year for you though. ⁓ Shannon Nelson (08:12) Thank you, because you know that there's probably going to be like a seed purchase coming very soon. Yeah. Kelsey Willock (08:18) And you're 98 % more likely to achieve a goal if you employ an accountability partner. So you sharing this with me makes it much more likely that it actually happens. Shannon Nelson (08:27) I'm expecting to get weekly emails and follow-ups at this point, yes. Kelsey Willock (08:36) How do you think your money story, whether it's the experience buying those first concert tickets or watching your parents undergo some highs and lows dealing with entrepreneurship has influenced how you think about paying benefits and showing up for your employees? Shannon Nelson (08:52) Gosh, you know, it's, it is, it is, and it's so deep. ⁓ You know, there's, there's such a rift that occurs a lot of times between like the, the work that, that we do in this space and the people that we support. And as somebody who, you know, has this, this varied experience with, with money growing up, you know, I can't help but see the people side of it. You know, there's, there's the, Kelsey Willock (08:54) Loaded question. Shannon Nelson (09:20) data level of comp and benefits where we're looking at numbers on a spreadsheet. We know that this has to go through layers of approval. ⁓ But much more importantly, there's the human side of these programs that we offer. We understand that it offers stability and opportunity. And on the flip side, if they're inadequate, that brings in insecurity and stress to... to people, to our employees. So I know for me personally, when I'm trying to design these types of programs, I'm really thinking about what is this real life impact on these people? No two employees have the exact same path, have the exact same story. Employing a one size fits all approach is not going to be effective. It just doesn't reflect what's happening in the real world right now. ⁓ it forces me to ask the question, how am I supporting these employees at different stages in their lives and in their careers with us? Whether it's somebody who's paying off student loans, supporting their family, planning for retirement. ⁓ My ultimate goal is to try and meet or develop programs that will meet people where they are at that point in time. Kelsey Willock (10:46) Thanks for sharing that with me. I think that you couldn't be more right. We all have such unique money stories and we can't expect that blanketed programs can acknowledge the nuance. And so having real people behind the scenes making these decisions like yourself, understanding nuance exists beyond the quantitative data is so important. So. Shannon Nelson (11:09) Right. Kelsey Willock (11:10) Kind of talking about today's challenges, where do you see compensation and benefits breaking down most often today? Shannon Nelson (11:19) glad you said most often because it could be never ending. ⁓ I see it most of the time in two different areas. And I kind of spoke to it just a second ago. There's this misalignment that sometimes happens between an organization and employees. And there's also a lack of knowledge. ⁓ This misalignment, it really happens when ⁓ We look at total rewards as really a numbers only exercise and employees are once again thinking about the everyday living expenses, their rent, their childcare, their groceries. And those two perspectives don't always align in a reasonable way, especially when we see things like healthcare cost and cost of living increases. So. you know, on one side companies are facing and having to make very difficult decisions about their compensation and benefit programs. And those choices have a direct impact on things like employee retention and recruitment and overall productivity. ⁓ And then on the knowledge side, this is the one that to me has always made the most sense. sometimes take for granted that I sit in the space that I do and, you know, can talk shop on certain programs, but, you know, benefit programs in particular are incredibly complex and most people aren't using them all that frequently. So this means that a lot of people don't know how their benefit plans work, how they intersect with one another, really how to navigate healthcare. at all in general. And all of that to say you can build a beautiful benefits program, but if employees don't understand it, then they're not going to use it effectively. And so I really do think that that misalignment and lack of knowledge is where we tend to see that breakdown happen most of the time. Kelsey Willock (13:29) I'm hearing this more and more and it also lends to the fact that these programs are so expensive. And if we can't communicate the value of them or see the engagement we expect, there's a lot of loss that can go in to all the time and money spent on these programs. I'd say that's one, if not two, the most common breakdown that I'm hearing as of late. Shannon Nelson (13:48) It, yeah. Yeah, it's really, really hard sometimes to figure out, you know, where do you over communicate versus, you know, ⁓ like how do you find the exact right level? Because for a lot of people, understanding the nuance of it isn't going to be something that they're going to take to heart until they're standing there. And so once again, it's kind of about how do you meet your employees where they are and give them the support that they need when they need it. I find that that's something that no matter how great you are, there's always room for improvement on that. Kelsey Willock (14:36) I actually kind of want to double click on that. So can you talk a little bit more about how you have combated that breakdown, especially if you've seen it within the company yourself? You know, are there more effective ways in which you're communicating to employees, meeting them where they are, such as, you know, maybe there are times of the year when, you know, certain financial scenarios come up for them that are more applicable than in the summertime when no eyeballs are on those types of matters. What have you seen work? Shannon Nelson (15:04) right? Well, you know, I will say a lot of it is industry or even company specific, you know, one one thing that works for anthology might not, you know, work for another organization. But, ⁓ you know, one, know your population. And then two, just like what you're talking about, it's it's really important to understand things that are coming up and how best to support your employees and you know your employees demographics. better than anybody else coming from the outside world. And so if you know that you've got, let's say, ⁓ a lot of employees and their dependents reaching age 65, you know that there's Medicare that you need to probably start educating your employees on. And so, well, how do we do that appropriately and how do we find resources for that? And once again, how do we provide these resources in a way, especially in this remote work environment? in an avenue that's going to work for everybody. ⁓ So I would say, I don't think that I've found a, ⁓ you know, a hundred percent this is the best way forward. But I think ⁓ one thing that's worked very well for me is to always be open to feedback and be transparent in, you know, what's going on behind the scenes and make sure that I'm trying to do all that I can to understand what's happening from a compliance perspective and then what are some of the things that we're seeing from a demographics perspective to try and capture as much as we can. Kelsey Willock (16:40) It also just makes me think of what you had been mentioning before, which is one size fits all doesn't work. How we also communicate. It's different company to company. But I think it's a great takeaway to go back, look at your workforce, look at that demographic information. A lot of your answers can be instilled from that. So I want to talk a little bit about leadership in action. So Shannon Nelson (16:49) That's right. That's right. Kelsey Willock (17:06) Have there been any programs or design changes that you've enacted at the company that you're particularly proud of that you've seen go from just attracting talent to really transforming the lives of your employees? Shannon Nelson (17:19) Ooh, yeah, that's a really great question. ⁓ Not just at Anthology, but in some of the other organizations that I've been lucky to work at, I've really seen this rise in, let's call them like flexible life centered benefits that have really had a positive impact. And I say this as somebody who, once thought that the height of innovation was offering two dental plans. The field has definitely evolved. Our profession has gotten better. But what I'm seeing is that we're not looking at things in sort of this rhetorical ⁓ sense any longer. We're not looking at it as, this looks really great on our careers page. I mean, it does, but that's not the only path forward. ⁓ we're seeing the real life impact that these programs have. you know, for instance, ⁓ you know, I'm seeing employees that are graduating college with fewer student loans because of tuition reimbursement. ⁓ It's somebody being able to take off extra time with a new baby because we offer, you know, additional paid family leave benefits. And that's really been the switch, I think, that not just that those of us that are sitting in the total reward space are seeing, but organizations as well where it's moving from the spreadsheet to the actual real life ⁓ impact at this point. Kelsey Willock (18:54) What's the impact that you look to tell upstream when enacting these types of programs? Is it, you know, ⁓ boost in retention? Is it higher levels of engagement, employee satisfaction? What do you specifically seek out? Shannon Nelson (19:09) Well, all of the above, right? ⁓ You know, it's very, very hard because HR is so often viewed as we're a cost center. And so we're always trying to figure out, what is that ROI? How do we show that there's actual value to the programs that we're putting out? And you're absolutely right, you know, doing things like... know, pull surveys and, you know, getting this kind of feedback from employees, looking at our attrition and retention numbers, ⁓ you know, how quickly, you know, know, time to fill on recruiting, all of those things. We can't always say 100 % that ties to, you know, our comp and benefit strategy, but I do selfishly like to think that sometimes that does play a part. And so if I can take those metrics. and show it to the leaders of the organization and say, look, we've reduced our time to fill, our retention rate is so great, our employee satisfaction survey, especially around benefits and compensation is increasing every three or six months. That really does show that there's value in these programs. Kelsey Willock (20:25) And it's not just one, it sounds like you're looking at it from a multifaceted ⁓ perspective. Shannon Nelson (20:32) Well, you have to. can't be too siloed. Kelsey Willock (20:33) Right, right, right, of course. So looking ahead, what compensations and benefits trends do you think will shape the employee experience most over the next year? Shannon Nelson (20:45) Yeah, well, some aren't that surprising. Flexibility is still the hot new currency. I think that we'll continue to see this push towards remote and hybrid work, ⁓ flexible time off. Employees are really looking for work-life balance, and they want that control. And we're starting to see this post-pandemic swing back towards ⁓ in-office work right now, but I do think that there's this great generation that's coming through that's really very good about ⁓ setting boundaries and advocating for work-life balance. And I think that that's gonna be a trend that we continue to see grow. ⁓ I also think that we're gonna keep seeing a lot of changes towards like personalization. in benefits, especially in the wellness space. ⁓ People find wellbeing in a bunch of different ways, right? It's not just here's a reimbursement for your gym membership any longer. There's so many different ways that we see people experiencing ⁓ positive mental health benefits. And so I think we're gonna see things like lifestyle spending accounts, ⁓ expanded mental health support, caregiving benefits. those are really gonna continue to gain traction and be attractive options for companies to offer. ⁓ And it would be ⁓ silly of me not to talk about, you know, like financial education and wellness because it's really starting to get the attention that it deserves. ⁓ know, cost of living being where it is now, I'm starting to see a lot more employers offer things like student loan support, tuition reimbursement. emergency savings programs, as well as like financial education tools and resources, because we're starting to see it's not enough for us just to say to an employee, here's your paycheck, here's your benefit statement, and really hoping for the best. It's about how do we holistically help build employees into being satisfied and feeling supported. Kelsey Willock (23:12) It's music to my ears to hear that that's where you see the future heading because I think we so oftentimes forget the relationship between the employer and employee is inherently financial. so finding ways to set employees up for success financially and well-being wise is really key to a holistic well-being routines. Financial, it's physical, it's mental, it's so many aspects. Shannon Nelson (23:36) Right, exactly. It's very easy, you know, I kind of spoke about silos. It is, it's very easy for us to say our wellness benefit is going to be, you know, focused on physical well-being and you're missing so many different areas that are actually going to contribute to well-being if we only focus on one piece of it. Kelsey Willock (24:00) Have you found any tools, datasets, service providers that you have found to specifically improve the well-being of your employees? Shannon Nelson (24:10) You know, I mean, it would be silly of me not to say that, you know, AI is starting to change the landscape in any way, shape or form. It seems very clear we're in the middle of this, you know, like major tech evolution right now. You know, in terms of like how it's improving, you know, pay equity and wellness, I'm really seeing us move a lot more from like a reactive to a proactive. approach. We're really looking for predictive insights ⁓ and that shift is really changing everything. We're seeing a lot of advanced analytic platforms, ⁓ especially on the compensation side. We're moving beyond just saying, here's the compa ratio for compensation. We're looking at where there's inequities. We're looking to flag pay compression ranges in real time. we're able to integrate performance management ⁓ now into our compensation and pay equity programs. ⁓ So it's no longer us asking the question just into the ether and saying, do we have a problem? Now it's we're understanding, we're finding out, well, why does it exist? What is driving this? How do we fix this before it becomes an even bigger problem? ⁓ And one other thing is something that I kind of spoke on earlier is, you know, getting this real-time feedback. It's a little bit old school, I know, in philosophy, but I still find that it's a very, very valid tool that we can use. know, these real-time pulse surveys and, you know, survey results from employees where we're not waiting to hear what your thoughts were on something that happened six months ago. I want to know... what's going on with you right now and being able to actually enact change or being able to respond to something that maybe isn't going the way that it should be is so invaluable right now and truthfully gives employees a ⁓ podium to speak to of what's happening and then we don't have to wait for an exit survey to find out what is going on behind the scenes. Kelsey Willock (26:30) It's such a great way to be more proactive rather than wait till they're gone, fix the problem if one exists and also learn from a valuable employee in the moment, empower them to give them that voice. My last question for you is, I'd love to know if you have a 30 day experiment that listeners could try to boost their own financial wellness. Shannon Nelson (26:37) Exactly. That's right. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, I know we're sitting here in early January. It feels like New Year's resolutions are, you know, abounding around us. So it's probably a good time for people to start to evaluate some of the why. You know, I know for me personally, it's, you know, the impulse spending habits, right? Like we all kind of know what our crutches are. Is it, you know, the daily Starbucks run? it? the weekly Amazon deliveries, is it the temporary amnesia that hits you when you walk into Target, you know, that kind of thing. ⁓ You know, and I would never suggest that you just abstain from it. ⁓ But instead, I think like what I would challenge people, and I say that, I'm saying this like I'm not also talking to myself, but ⁓ you know, pay attention to kind of what are the triggers. Kelsey Willock (27:31) you Shannon Nelson (27:53) of that spending, know, maybe you're realizing, ⁓ you know, I clicked buy on that espresso machine after, you know, I was in back-to-back meetings for an entire day. You're not talking about a budget problem any longer, we're talking about like coping mechanisms. And, you know, once you start to see that pattern, ⁓ You can usually try and find healthier alternatives on, or at least a healthier way maybe to get that dopamine hit instead of spending that money. So ⁓ I'm speaking it out into the world because I'm also hoping that I can do it myself for the next 30 days. Kelsey Willock (28:35) You know, it's another example of employee accountability. I love it. Well, Shannon, thank you so much for being part of this conversation today. I have certainly learned so, much as a recap on some of the great things we spoke about. loved how you mentioned it's so important to look at the human side as well as quantitative data when making and designing benefits programs. We have to acknowledge that employing program that's one size fits all just simply doesn't work. It's more nuanced than that. Shannon Nelson (28:40) That's right, that's right. Kelsey Willock (29:06) You also talked about how benefits programs are incredibly complex and if people don't understand them, they're not going to engage. So it's incredibly important educating them on how to effectively manage those programs at a time that makes the most sense to them. And lastly, one of my favorite quotes that you had mentioned was flexibility is the new hot currency. We are still in an age where people appreciate so much of the remote hybrid work, giving them a place to really find that work-life balance. So thank you so much for joining us in this conversation. I'm wondering what is the best place for our listeners to connect with you beyond this conversation? Shannon Nelson (29:44) ⁓ yeah, and I look forward to it. know, listeners can find me on LinkedIn, you know, look for Shannon Nelson at Anthology, and I really hope to hear from people. I love getting messages and emails, and I would look forward to that. Kelsey Willock (30:01) Happy New Year and have a wonderful rest of your week and tune in next week. Shannon Nelson (30:07) Thanks, Kelsey.