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When More Discipline Stops Working with Leif Bjelland · FitMitTuro Fitness Podcast

• 1:07
  Turo Virta: Welcome back to the Fit Me Turo Fitness podcast. A lot of people listening to this show don't have a discipline problem. They exercise, they work hard, they take care of their families, they read the books, listen to podcasts, track their sleep, and keep trying to improve. But sometimes doing more stops helping. You can be productive, successful, and disciplined, and still feel like your brain never switches off.
• 1:34
  Turo Virta: My guest today is Leif Bjelland, founder of Heroic Pred and a Predwerk facilitator, who has spent years working with high performers and exploring the connection between achievement, stress, recovery, and the nervous system, Dave describes something he calls optimization sealing-the point where adding more information, discipline, or self-improvement no longer creates a better experience of life. Today we are going to talk about why high performers struggle to slow down, why recovery can become another thing we try to optimize, what breathwork can realistically do, and how to build a nervous system that can handle stress without constantly living in overdrive. Leif, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:24
  Unknown: Thank you, Turo. Glad to be here.
• 2:28
  Turo Virta: Before we get into bread work, what happened in your own life that led you to this work?
• 2:37
  Unknown: You know, I've always been a high performer in scholastic math and science kind of guy. Like to figure out systems and and just just go forward hard, and and really, you know, I had a successful business and so much success that you know one of the things that I you know did back then was drink, and so I I ended up having an alcohol problem, and I'm an alcoholic, recovered alcoholic, and and really like after you know after after my business was after I was done with my business and getting through my alcoholism, I ended up doing a lot of cycling and listening to podcasts, optimizing, going further and faster, you know, as as it goes, and and it took me kind of a it took me a while to to actually tune into my recovery, or I mean for the for the events that I was doing, the cycling that I was doing, you know, like you know up to up to 12 100k, it it it was kind of it was really it's just really hard in my body, and so I tried meditation when I was when I was drinking, and I couldn't sit with my myself for with my eyes closed for for three minutes. You know, it seemed like an eternity. You know, and and really one of the one of the hallmark things that when you're when you're an alcoholic is is circular thoughts, and a lot of people that don't drink, you know, have this problem too, just with their mind racing, and and you've got these same thoughts that you're chewing over and over and over again, and they could be past traumas or or you know future goals or whatever it is, but but just you know, looking for some relief from that that cycle of of just thinking all the time, and and really I couldn't be I wasn't comfortable in my own skin you know either, I mean even after drinking I mean it was kind of hard to to just be still and just just yeah. So yeah, my go ahead.
• 4:53
  Turo Virta: Yeah, no, I I I wanted to test it. Was there some point when did you realize that pushing harder wasn't solving the problem anymore?
• 5:04
  Unknown: Yeah, I I mean, I the whole thought of for me biking, you know, in in my sobriety, it was it was really was about you know trying to get good sleep or trying to get well not trying to get good sleep just trying to get sleep actually, and I think a lot of people have this problem mid especially mid age you know where you you know whatever keeps you up at night.
• 5:30
  Unknown: So so for me yeah pushing harder more information I feel like I'm I'm kind of turning this page right now where where it seems like we're we're in the information I mean we have so much information at our fingertips it's an olden age of information right it's easy to easy to just like tap in whenever we want to, and and I feel like they're they're kind of the same thing. It's like me going further on a bike and all the information in the world and and just like bring it on, yeah.
• 6:00
  Unknown: And and I think there's limits to it. You know, you you just have to be able to figure out a safe way to take take breaks.
• 6:06
  Unknown: You know, from and and really, like you know, the breath work that I do, it's it's the the mechanical process gives you actual an actual break from your thinking mind, which is kind of rare. You know, meditation does that, but sometimes it takes it takes a lot of effort to get just to the just to the point where you can you can feel comfortable and you feel like it's not you know maybe a waste of time.
• 6:34
  Turo Virta: Yeah, yeah. No, it's it it makes so so much sense and it's I'm I'm curious to learn more about preterm. I'm a big believer, by the way, also about breeding work, and I know how it helps. But let's start with the term what you use a lot, and there is that optimization and ceiling. What does that
• 7:01
  Unknown: mean? That means that you you basically, I mean, for me, what it means is that. So, so say I was just thinking about this last night. How how really like I, you know, so so I'm maybe I'm stressed out and and I'm like and I'm feeling like okay, I need I know I need to do something. There's a breath work that I can do to help me right now that that'll help me with with my stress, and it and it's really like all these like I feel like it's it's like all these things that we're holding on to that that might be in our toolkit might not be in our toolkit, but we have to go back and we have to reference them.
• 7:40
  Unknown: They might not be right there for us. So I kind of feel like the optimization ceiling for me is is just holding on to just bits of information and not having the the concreteness of of really of what works for you.
• 7:53
  Unknown: You know, I mean, I think we're all searching for for something to make us make us better, more informed, more knowledgeable, and I think it's kind of rare to find things that work and and that maybe don't work in the in the now moment, but that work to actually you know change your physiology, and and that's kind of what I'm interested in. You know, for when I when I started the meditation that I started that that actually worked for me was transcendental meditation, and it's a it's a mantra style meditation. So you're not you're not having to sit in your mind with your thoughts necessarily, which is which is kind of the most popular meditations these days. Are kind of sitting with your thoughts, and sometimes that's a really hard place to be. Yeah,
• 8:51
  Turo Virta: yeah, absolutely.
• 8:51
  Turo Virta: So, what does it look like when someone has hit that ceiling?
• 9:02
  Unknown: It can. I think it can look like a lot of different things. You know, and and really, like I guess if you find yourself probably social media scrolling all day long, you're probably there. You know, I mean, just as far as like a real low parameter, but really, like you know, I I feel like information and emotion are kind of two two things that are kind of attached, and we might not know it, you know. But it's information these days can can be really emotionally triggering. I feel like too, you know. So it's depending on what where you're what you're getting your news, you know, and what you're how where you how you are you know in your in your own being, you know, but I but I feel like you know for me I feel like once I started taking a break from my thinking mind, it became more clear of when I was consuming information that wasn't really getting me anywhere. You know,
• 10:14
  Turo Virta: yeah,
• 10:15
  Unknown: it was taking my time.
• 10:15
  Unknown: Yeah, but but and it was and and really like social media and stuff like that. I mean, it's like it's a flow state, if if you want to call it a flow state, right? But it's kind of a junk flow state.
• 10:29
  Turo Virta: Yeah, it's
• 10:29
  Unknown: not. It's there. There might be value, but there. It's it might be. It's kind of trivial, you know. Yeah. With our with our attention span at eight seconds or whatever it is.
• 10:38
  Unknown: I mean, it's like we get these little sound bites, and they're good for conversations, maybe, or for sharing. But it's it's not. Maybe it's not the quality of of information that we
• 10:49
  Turo Virta: yeah yeah and it's it's I think nowadays those all algorithms from all social media platforms like when you understand that the goal with that social media if it's an Instagram or TikTok or whatever social media platform. You're using. It's made. It knows first of all. It knows you better.
• 11:11
  Turo Virta: That algorithm knows you better, probably than you know yourself.
• 11:14
  Turo Virta: It knows exactly what interests you, what you want to see, what you don't want to see. The in goal in back in the mind is the only goal is to keep you in the app as long as possible because that's the only way how the app is making money. So it can show more ads, and and of course they are ads what you probably like to see, or maybe you don't like to see, but you are going to see anyways. And there is a chance that you spend your money, and app is app is getting clicks and and that's how it works, but that is that is and of course does it then really help? Yeah, it for sure distracts you, but does it then maybe you get some information there? Is all information good? Probably not.
• 12:04
  Turo Virta: So it's it's very tricky. It's very tricky, and especially if you you are not aware. So, is there in your mind some kind of type of person who is especially vulnerable for these? Is like high achievers, entrepreneurs, parents, athletes?
• 12:23
  Unknown: Oh yeah, high high achievers for sure. You know, I feel like for for me, my personally, I mean, I was really good at chopping wood. You know, going going further, faster, and and just you know whatever it is, just just just just to keep it going. And I and I think that that kind of I mean, if you haven't, if you haven't meditated, if you haven't been able to take a break from your mind, you know, I think I think it works, you know, until it doesn't. It's kind of like alcoholism, actually, in a lot of ways, because you know, I mean, I was a workaholic, you know, so it's like you do you do all those things the same way, and and eventually, I mean, it can be can be kind of hard on a person. So, so I do I do think that people, a type people that are that are just just real go getters. I mean, being able to take a break, you know, from your thinking mind, yeah, it gives you it gives you some gives you it changes your perspective. It's a paradigm shift, is actually what it is.
• 13:26
  Unknown: Yeah, you know, your your your whole shift shifting your yourself in your now and and just like the past, and especially with breath work because it really does a lot of there's a lot of alchemy, a lot of coherence. There's a lot of a lot of the thoughts that you have, the you know some of the letting go that happens, is those. Some of those things aren't yours. I mean, they're conditioning your thought. Some of your thoughts are your parents' thoughts that you grew up with. Even even at you know in your 40s and and you know 50s. I mean, you you if you're not if you don't review it.
• 14:04
  Unknown: You're like, oh yeah, that's that's outdated. That's that's that's what my dad always used to say. Yeah, yeah. And and we got we got to take inventory for that. You know, and just kind of like be like, oh okay, was is that what I think? Is that does that reflective of now? Yeah. So yeah, it's a good opportunity to To review that stuff and and let go of the things that aren't ours, you know, because I mean, why carry that around? And usually, that's emotion too.
• 14:34
  Unknown: It's charged.
• 14:35
  Turo Virta: Yeah, I I wanted to talk like what you just mentioned, like why those high performers do they struggle to switch off? So, if why some can someone be extremely disciplined and successful, but still feel constantly overwhelmed internally?
• 14:57
  Unknown: Man, I think it has to do with willpower. You know, because we're taught, you know, and if you have a strong willpower, if you've if you've taught it and you've developed a strong willpower. It's it's worked for you. It's always worked for you, right? Yeah. And and so when it doesn't work, I mean that's the baffling part is when when will doesn't work. You know when will doesn't get you through the thing that you want to get through. You know and and some people live their whole lives. You know going forward like that, and it totally works for him. Some people, I mean, with with alcoholism too. I mean, it's one of those things where you know a lot of people are able to to to drink successfully, and and you know however that looks, you know.
• 15:41
  Turo Virta: Yeah.
• 15:42
  Unknown: But but I'm I'm I'm kind of you know in a high high achiever type personality. Yeah.
• 15:45
  Unknown: I go all the way with everything, you know. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's and it and it is. It's kind of hard to if if you yeah if it's worked for you. You know, I mean, why wouldn't it work? You know, to to put your all into it and to make it, you know, with sheer willpower.
• 16:05
  Turo Virta: Yeah. Is there then some signs? Because you talk a lot about the nervous system. Is there some what are or what are some signs that someone's nervous system is spending too much time in a state of high alert?
• 16:23
  Unknown: You know, one of the gosh, one of the as far well as far as breathing goes, there's there's a you know I would say, gosh, I'm gonna kind of go back to just like a sleep thing and mouth mouth tape and you know parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system, and there are a lot of people that breathe with their mouth open when they sleep, and they don't know it.
• 16:54
  Unknown: And and what that does is is it actually puts you in in a I guess parasympathetic state, right? So it's like it puts you in a heightened state, and your and your nervous system doesn't it doesn't allow itself to be sympathetic and to slow down and to not be like always engaged, ready to engage. And so some people are going through life, and and what that means for your physiology is your heart is racing, you know, and you're on the edge of being stressed out all the time. You know, you're you're you're kind of you're battling that, and that's when that's when people are looking for the, oh, I need this like quick breath, you know, the four forward breathing, you know, to settle myself down, and it's kind of like it's taking a quick pill, you know, is how I see it, because my breath work works a little bit differently in changing the physiology and coherence as a whole, and so you don't have to remember or go back to it. Hopefully, you get back to the sympathetic, and you're not you're not in this heightened you know state.
• 17:59
  Turo Virta: Yeah, and why you think that especially those high performers are often so bad at doing nothing.
• 18:15
  Unknown: Well, it's if you're moving, you don't really have to, you know. If you're if you're moving, you don't really have to to to be okay in your head. You don't have to. I mean, it's it's hard to it's hard to be. I think it's just hard to be to be still to be comfortable in your own skin. I mean, these are. It's kind of funny because we're as we're talking about.
• 18:34
  Unknown: It's like I I always think about like these things with my alcoholic self and not not people without alcohol. But it's it's kind of the same. I mean, alcohol just kind of heightens that. I think, you know, in a person, just the the ability to be, and and that's you know I mean that's like we're all as kids we're probably all way better at just being I mean just I mean like when we grew up I guess you know sitting in the back of a car when our parents were driving you know it's like we just stare out the window yeah there wasn't there wasn't much To do, you know,
• 19:08
  Turo Virta: yeah, yeah, and why?
• 19:08
  Turo Virta: Why then can the trust actually feel uncomfortable for someone who is used to constantly doing like what you just mentioned?
• 19:17
  Turo Virta: Why? Why it feels that way? Like if you are just sitting in a back seat and watching outside of the window. Ah. Ah,
• 19:29
  Unknown: that's I I feel I well I actually I feel like for high performers and well and for a lot of people I mean we can we can look at it talk it talk about it in a different way, and it's it's like really being really good at escaping escapism, yeah, you know, because it's a it's actually I mean, escapism is kind of a skill in in a way, and there's a lot of different ways to do it, but always shuffling the deck to looking for a different way to to do or to be and to kind of like in an active and engagement kind of style of of living, so it's so it's all on, you know.
• 20:09
  Unknown: Yeah, yeah. But but I look at that all the time. With you know, sometimes I you know with bike my my relationship with the with cycling and biking right now is is a lot different than it used to be after breath work and meditation. And for a while it was it was kind of hard to just my headspace the consciousness the thought between you know my thoughts changed and I mean it was it was different and and so I started wondering I'm like I'm like is this is this am I am I looking for escapism right now when I want to go ride my bike yeah I mean, and it's a valid question.
• 20:49
  Unknown: I think these days, you know, to to be able to ask yourself that, you know, you know, and and and escapism is fine. I mean, you know, I mean, if if that's what you want to call it, and that's that's what you do, but but if that's your whole life, I mean, I I feel like there's there's more to. It and and just be and it's it's actually so relieving it's such a relief to be able to to be feel comfortable in your own skin and just be yeah
• 21:16
  Turo Virta: for let's say example that if I sit down and immediately feel guilty because I'm not being productive, what does that tell me?
• 21:28
  Unknown: Oh yeah, you you've got some guilt going on. I feel like I it's a societal thing, right?
• 21:33
  Unknown: I mean, that's um, it's a big societal thing. Um, you know, you don't you're judging yourself actually. Um, so this is this is part of where breathwork really comes in because um because this judgment, the societal thing, the self-judge actually is is a big, big part of the ego that breath work helps reestablish a relationship with, and and it does that actually in a person with a coherence. It does it with you know connecting the mind and the heart together, and it might sound silly to I mean they're both in your body right they're both connected but they're not you know usually with most people they're not breath work helps do that Reiki helps do that there's there's tools that are out there that that actually help do that, but oftentimes we're just we're just in our head, you know, not really shifting down to our heart and into that coherence.
• 22:36
  Turo Virta: Yeah, because like what you said, that we consistently hear that we need more discipline, and but when does discipline stop being helpful then?
• 22:51
  Unknown: Oh, when? Well, I mean, for for a guy like me, when I when I start beating myself up, when when when the internal voices and and for me, like, gosh, you know, as a, you know, I mean, those those voices in your head, I mean, I nobody can hear him. So, so really, like, where's the damage, right? I mean, so you can be hard on yourself, you know. I mean, but the but the truth is, those those voices actually have a huge, huge impact on your person. You're talking to yourself, you know, and you got to think about it that way. And I think our our society, you know, in the in the past generations, we haven't really given much value to to the way we talk to ourselves. You know, we're we're always sacrificing, and we're always pushing ourselves, and we're always kind of, I mean, even just little little little things, you know, just you know, it's like oh, you should have done that better.
• 23:49
  Unknown: You know, I mean, just like those little grumbles, and that's communicating with your with with your inner self.
• 23:55
  Turo Virta: Yeah,
• 23:56
  Unknown: and and and that's sending a I mean, sending a message, and you carry that with you, and so that that's the whole part of breath work that's just so amazing, because you know I could I could list all the the bouquet of things that breathwork does for you that are the style my style of breathwork does for you, but one of the one of the most amazing things is when you start letting some of these things go, some of the voices that are in your head change and they They dissolve, and it's that shift was very unexpected for me. And it was maybe the the you know the best thing about it is is just that you can actually get some peace there, and you're not when you're not so hard on yourself, you can actually, and that's again you can be more comfortable in your skin.
• 24:46
  Turo Virta: Yeah, because how do you tell then the difference?
• 24:52
  Turo Virta: Because like what we talked that somebody is telling themselves that I need to push myself today, or then if you tell that if you tell also that I generally need more recovery, So, how would you say how you would tell the difference?
• 25:15
  Unknown: Well, so so pre breath breath work and post breath work for me are two different two different ways. I mean, I it would have been hard pre breath work for me to actually tell the difference, but post breath work, things have changed for me. You know that that that mind and heart connection. The other thing that has developed is more self compassion, and and it's developed. It's kind of crazy because like after you get done with the breath work experience, your body feels blissed out, and and that's part of that is that the self compassion, and so the self compassion in me these days knows better, and knows knows to be able to say no to something if it's like ah you know that might maybe I just need to just lay low and and not. Push myself today, and and I'll go hard tomorrow. You know, if or whatever day it is, you know. So I I feel like I have a better sense of of knowing myself than I did before. My intuitions a lot better than it was before, in terms of knowing what's good for me. Maybe, you know,
• 26:33
  Turo Virta: yeah. But what is like? Because I, you talk a lot of about breath work, and most of people maybe they they already know what it is. But if like I'm still certain there are some people who doesn't know that what it is like a breathing. What do you exactly mean when you say breathwork?
• 26:56
  Unknown: Yeah, breathwork. Well, so breathwork for me, my style.
• 27:00
  Unknown: There's a certain style of breathwork that that I'm doing, and it's based on holotropic breathwork, which was started by Stan Grof. So he was a he's a psychiatrist that was microdosing people way back in the '60s, and he was successful with like 5000 people, you know.
• 27:19
  Unknown: And then it became illegal, and then he started he figured out like an ancient way of doing breath work to music. So, so my style of breath work is similar to that. It's they're they're hour long sessions, and I give you like a meditation beforehand that gets you kind of prepared.
• 27:43
  Unknown: You have headphones on, blindfold on, and and I'm not coaching you through the the hour long process. You're listening to music, so you're you're breathing, listening to music. Maybe immediately, maybe within 10 minutes, you drop in.
• 28:01
  Unknown: And when I say drop in, you drop out of your your thinking mind, your default mode network, so your ego mind, chit chat mind, monkey mind, and you're into expanded states of awareness. So you're into all all of the different flavors of your consciousness, and so that that experience is a lot like kind of like a lucid dream. There's time expansion at the very end of of the hour. It's there's a whole like the the whole process is in the beginning. It's it's lively music. There's a bit of a peak, and then just kind of a slow meditative like last part of it.
• 28:44
  Unknown: But it takes you through a journey that gets you to different parts of your consciousness that that you wouldn't normally be able to get to, and it gives you a break from your thinking mind. And so, what you the the kinds of experiences are are pretty vast historically. It could be you know things from your past from when you were a child, that you forgot about generational.
• 29:08
  Unknown: There's a lot of generational healing that happens, you know, with this kind of breath work, which is pretty cool. And you know, transpersonal traumas that that that you know that have been locked in, you know, and and really kind of, and that's that's a big thing. I mean, we go through life, you know, kind of a lot of times just not dealing with emotional things when they happen, just passing them over and just pushing them aside, stuffing them, and so so a lot of a lot of things that that might have happened in our past could be affecting us, just you know, kind of like a like a powder keg. You know, just ready ready to blow. I mean, and and that's and like people have anger issues and stuff like that too. And and that's usually like it's related to things that are that are in us that that need to kind of come out. So my my thought about that is is you know it's it's it's disease disease. You know, I mean, it's kind of the fodder for that. Is is you know, it gives you an opportunity to get you know bring that stuff out.
• 30:14
  Turo Virta: Yeah, and what then actually happens physiologically when we change the way we breathe?
• 30:23
  Unknown: For for my style of breath work, what happens is more oxygen, the carbon dioxide and oxygen levels change, and our our our blood becomes more alkaline, and that's really the change that affects our our default mode network and kind of turns that off. And it's it's the same kind of change that happens with I mean, there's like mushrooms and ecstasy and stuff like that. They're they're all basically kind of the same.
• 30:54
  Unknown: They change the blood alkalinity, which changes the the brain. And it and it goes. I mean, after you're done, you're you're right back to normal. I mean, you're you're not. You know your your blood doesn't doesn't change. You know it goes back to normal. Your body's good like that. brings you brings you back to where you need to be.
• 31:14
  Turo Virta: Yeah. Yeah, Huston.
• 31:14
  Turo Virta: There are a lot of claims online about breath work is kind of resetting the nervous system. So what is realistic, and what do you think gets overstated?
• 31:33
  Unknown: I do. I do feel like it resets it. You know, it it it it actually it's it's emotional regulation for sure. It gets like a lot of the the emotions that are at the surface out. We don't really set intentions with my style of breath work. We let what comes out come out. It's kind of popcorn style because your body knows. I mean, there's your body has like an inner intelligence. You know, it's one of those things where you know we've. I'm sure people have heard this before, but you know, 95% of of our you know, thinking or our body, you know, subconscious is is is doing all the work, you know, and we don't have to think about, you know, sending white blood cells to a cut or you know or a broken bone or anything like that. Our body knows how to do it, right? Yeah.
• 32:21
  Unknown: So we're just accessing a state that it's it's very natural, you know. I mean, it's our breath is one thing that we do from you know birth to death, and so it's kind of it's it's kind of funny like that. It's kind of like water, you know. It's like it's essential for our for our life, and it's kind of amazing that there's a there's a way to to actually mechanically use it to change our state and to and kind of you know I guess the other thing emotionally too is to you know the letting go is one thing but to increase our emotional bandwidth too because there's you know one of the things that happens when you go through these experiences is you I mean there's emotions that come up, and you can you can be you can be crying tears of joy, and you can. I mean, it's it's it's big, and and beautiful. There's there's there are a lot of things, even even some of the things that that are trauma.
• 33:25
  Unknown: You're able to see it in a different light through breath work, and and you're able to your body like basically when she process it that way, it doesn't hold the same charge that it did before.
• 33:41
  Turo Virta: mr. I want to be a little bit practical, like so.
• 33:45
  Turo Virta: If you imagine now someone has just finished a stressful workday and cannot mentally be soft. What breathing practice would you have them try?
• 34:00
  Unknown: Gosh, I would go for I go for Wim Hof or something like that. Probably, you know. I think I think there's a lot of, or take a walk, yeah, or flow state. I mean, because really, like you know, I mean, on the scale of things, I mean, walking is is one of those things that you know gets you gets your your mind breaks your mind free a little bit, gets you into a flow state, right? And so you start, you know, thinking, and you start being curious. You know, for me and cycling, cycling was definitely like a it was a great flow state for me, and and I feel like my breath work is is really like a deep flow state.
• 34:45
  Unknown: So it's it's a flow state still.
• 34:45
  Unknown: I mean, you're you're still accessing that kind of that that dynamic, but it's it's really deep because it's your brain's not involved, you know. Yeah.
• 34:57
  Turo Virta: And what about then?
• 34:57
  Turo Virta: Is there some like a particle breathing technique you use before sleep?
• 35:06
  Unknown: I I don't, yeah, but but there are there are there are some, and I'm not I'm yeah you know and I'm not super I'm like not really an expert I would say in in different types of breath work like that, but but there definitely are some some breathworks that are you know
• 35:26
  Turo Virta: yeah
• 35:26
  Unknown: people say are beneficial.
• 35:28
  Turo Virta: Yeah, no, it's it's just for athletes, and when when we work with high performer athletes, we used to like also regulate after games, after practices, like high intensity practices, just a couple minute exercise taking protein, like long, let's say six seconds in, three seconds out, and that is like that for me. That was athletes recognize huge difference. Like you started to recover faster, help them maybe to fall asleep faster because that is usually calming, and then was kind. Of opposite, if you if you feel like that you are you were a little bit sleepy, that how to get your heart rate up and get like that you are ready to go. It was then kind of opposite that you are focusing more on like exhaling in in a longer way and inhaling faster, so that gets it was that was for athletes what usually helps that kind of breathing.
• 36:34
  Turo Virta: But what we were doing with with elite athletes. So, but what about then anxiety? So can breath work ever make anxiety worse?
• 36:52
  Unknown: Ah, for sure. I I think I think it can. It it depends on. I mean, everybody's different, and it depends on all the things that it depends on a lot of things actually. One of the things for for my my style of breath work, there are contraindications. There are some health contraindications, and severe PTSD is is kind of a something that you know you should maybe not not steer away, but I mean because it can help you a lot. But you just need to be really aware That sometimes the way I mean I think the way past is through for for your body for your coherence, and sometimes it's sometimes it's uncomfortable getting through that. So it's it's always good to like I mean as far as my breath work I feel like and if you if you have PTSD or something like that, anxiety prone conditions, you should be working with a therapist. And the the cool thing about that is is that you can do so much work so fast with a therapist, and you can get you know you can get through things. And I really, like I said before, like I feel the way the way past is through because it's your your body coherence, and that's you're going to a natural state. You're trying to create a natural coherence. So it's not it's not a matter of you know taking drugs for anxiety to get my state you know controlled. It's it's a let let let the stuff up out to to get your state settled in natural way is is really how I feel. But it can be it can be a tough road to get there.
• 38:37
  Unknown: Actually, yeah, and depends it depends on the person because I I do I know I mean I've heard it before I haven't had it with any clients personally where they have had breathwork experiences, where where it's you know given given them anxiety afterwards, usually it's usually it's the opposite. But if if I guess if there's a real lack, if there's no, if they haven't had exercise, and you know if they're sedentary, if people are you know not if you're starting from zero, you might have to ease your way into it. Yeah, you know
• 39:18
  Turo Virta: that's true. It's kind of like going out for
• 39:22
  Unknown: a run, you know, like you get off the couch and go out for a run. It'll it'll affect you. Oh yeah, and it might feel uncomfortable, right? But you keep doing it, and it gets better. It's the same thing.
• 39:32
  Unknown: Yeah.
• 39:35
  Turo Virta: Is there in your mind who should be cautious with more intense pre-work practices?
• 39:46
  Unknown: To be cautious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I, I feel. Yeah, it's, it's kind.
• 39:53
  Unknown: That's kind of a personal question for sure. I, I feel like the contraindications are there for health-wise. You know, I mean, if you have, you know, the like I said, PTSD, heart conditions. There's there's a few other health things that you should be aware of. But other than that, I mean, if you if you're healthy, I feel like it's it's the most natural way to to better yourself, to to be able to to let go some of some of the things that you you know that that are operating in your system that you don't need and get and just more intuition and more coherence. So yeah, I feel like it depends. I mean, I think a lot of people you know are apprehensive of doing a breath work like this because you know your your ego mind protects you, right? And and and when you know most people when they see this kind of breath work, they are like, oh, geez, that sounds scary. And actually, the the thing that sounds scary to a lot of people is. Is that you?
• 41:07
  Unknown: Because of the thoughts, you know, the judgments in your head, right? You, you basically think you're filled with like, oh yeah, I've got a lot of bad things in me, yeah, or I'm a bad person, or you know. But it's it's kind of it's it's the opposite. Once you once you get there and you experience it, you realize that it's not that way.
• 41:28
  Unknown: Your your inner being is actually, you know, I mean, it's mostly operated with the heart, right? It's not your head, and and it's actually it's good.
• 41:40
  Unknown: It's it's you. It's it's a good connection to have, and you it dispels. I mean, once you once you get there, once you do it, you're like, oh, this isn't my my. I'm not filled with the all the badness that I thought that I was, and and I think that's just really common for people to feel that way because of the way the ego mind works, you know, with the judges.
• 42:01
  Turo Virta: Yeah. What else? And if I want to talk a little bit about also like recovery, and not let's leave pre-work aside.
• 42:12
  Turo Virta: So, what else matters more than pre-work for recovery?
• 42:20
  Unknown: You know, I transcendental meditation for me has been a game changer, and when I when I learned to do that, I I mean I was looking for something for recovery, and and I kind of failed at meditation.
• 42:32
  Unknown: It was just hard for me to quiet my mind down. But but that was a mantra meditation, and the cool thing was that I I ended up getting an aura ring right before I learned it, and so I kind of had this baseline physiology, heart rate and heart rate variability, and the after 30 days of doing it, my physiology changed. And the cool thing about this is that my heart rate dropped, heart rate variability went up, and these are these were numbers that actually transferred to my sleep,
• 43:07
  Turo Virta: yeah.
• 43:08
  Unknown: So, so my sleep heart rate dropped, and so so all of a sudden I was getting better sleep,
• 43:13
  Turo Virta: yeah.
• 43:14
  Unknown: And and that was that was amazing, and that's that's those are the kinds of you know details that you're you're like okay this is this this makes a lot of sense yeah oh
• 43:24
  Turo Virta: actually yeah like like you said that ultimately you need better sleep, and how you get there, there are probably like so many different ways would work for you, horse meditation, breathing exercises, but ultimately you need better sleep.
• 43:41
  Unknown: Yeah, we all do.
• 43:43
  Turo Virta: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all do. Yeah. What about then if there is an someone who is listening is an overwhelmed woman over 40? What they should stop doing before adding another wellness habit?
• 44:03
  Unknown: Oh yeah, that so that is the and and that that goes into the the more information, yeah. And really, like when you when you get on the path of of discovery for um, you know all the all the different things that you can do for yourself internally. There's there I I basically I was trying them all, and I think that there's a lot of people that are, and and it becomes more information. It becomes your whole day is wellness, little things, little things you're keeping track of.
• 44:35
  Unknown: So I've really reduced my my my practice to transcendental meditation, and then breath work for me like is is something that I do maybe every two weeks or every month, just to kind of shake off and the whole nervous system, and and you you get a little accumulation after a while, so it's not something that you have to do that much, you know. Really, in the beginning, I think you have to do it a little, quite a bit. To yeah, I mean, not quite. I should say quite a bit. I don't know. However many times you need to do it, three times, 10 times, to to actually to to get through the nervous system. But after that, you don't have to do it that much. Yeah, and then I'm I'm a big like I said, I just do transcendental meditations like the only thing that I really do on a daily basis, and I've got little things that I, you know, health things that I do, but but not not nothing nothing major.
• 45:38
  Turo Virta: What about what about then? What did that endurance sport teach you? Like your cycling teach, life about resilience versus overriding the body.
• 45:54
  Unknown: Well, I mean, I feel like I mean these days. I mean, I look at it as as 100% escapism. You know, something to something to tire myself out. It was it was a necessary part. I mean, it was for me. It was a necessary step, an indulgence, but a necessary step after my alcoholism, just because I didn't I didn't master my sleep, and and so like really my my pillars back then were making sure that I was eating, making sure that I was sleeping, and doing something to make sure that I was sleeping. So, so cycling was kind of that thing for me, and and really like yeah, just just just just pushing myself to that to that exhaustion, and and really hoping for. I mean, there's deep flow state there, but not not the quality of flow state that I was really looking for. You know, I think I found the quality now in like my nervous, and it's and it's it was hard on my nervous system actually. That was a thing really. Like I felt once I got done with something like that, like a big you know big rides that were hundreds of miles, parts of my body recovered really fast, and other parts didn't. And and I really feel like I've got a better handle on my nervous system right now, where where it's it's it's more developed, and it's it. I feel like it's it flourishes more now than it did then, and and I was kind of in a you know it was a self abuse too, actually, in a sense, you know. To be honest, I mean it's, but that was kind of my mindset, you know, back then it was different. You know, like the things that we do to you know for glory are sometimes self abuse. You know, yeah,
• 47:58
  Turo Virta: absolutely. This leads the next question, which I want to keep it practical also.
• 48:02
  Turo Virta: Like, what should someone do this week if they realize that they are trying to solve stress by doing more.
• 48:16
  Unknown: Yeah, I would. Yeah, and I would say jump on and do a breathwork session because I because I really feel, yeah. I feel like, I mean, now's now's the best time, you know, to to change and to, you know, to see if there's a different way, to see if there's a different way for your body, because I feel like, yeah, I feel like more is probably if if you if you self-identify as somebody that that is stacking more on, I do think that there's a kinder, general, gentler way for your being.
• 48:58
  Turo Virta: Yeah, awesome! Thank you so much. If time is running, where people can learn more about you and Heroic Breath.
• 49:10
  Unknown: Yeah, HeroicBreath.com, and yeah, and I do have I do have up a free breathwork on there at HeroicBreath.com/backslash Freedom, and if if you want to add the code Freedom 100. You can get it for free, and it's a whole one-hour session.
• 49:30
  Turo Virta: Awesome. Can Can you tell us what that is and who it is for?
• 49:38
  Unknown: Any anybody that feels like it resonates with them, you know, and it's it's called the release. I've got a three-session series on the website, and the release is the first part of that, and so it's a full one-hour session. So you can actually experience the the full thing, and see if it resonates with you or not. Yeah, and it's and if and if you want to go further, you can you can of course do that. But but I really feel like if anybody if if you're curious and if you feel like you've you've you're holding a lot of things together if you feel emotionally overwhelmed I you know I think it's for you but I encourage people to to you know I guess I'm really curious by nature, and so I like to try things and see if it works. And and if if it doesn't work, then it goes over here. I don't come back to it. Absolutely. And so so my my curiosity is is and I just for for a while I was I had a short short breathwork thing, but I really want people to experience the full thing, and and see for themselves, and you know, and and to change, you know, change your physiology and and to be comfortable in your own skin, and and and it's a and to shift into the heart, you know, as well. That's great. That that's that's probably where we're all heading.
• 51:06
  Turo Virta: Absolutely, I will put all links to show notes. So make sure you look the link and code. You can check them from show notes. So thank you, Liv, so much for your time sharing your wisdom. I really, really enjoyed talking with you, and thank you for listening. And talk to you in the next episode.
• 51:29
  Turo Virta: All
• 51:30
  Unknown: right, thank you so much.