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Carl White Interviews Me · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
0:06
However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
0:11
With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
0:15
can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
0:20
Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
0:31
And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
0:34
with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
0:45
of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
0:52
in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
0:56
Don't miss out.
0:57
Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
1:03
He was an expert about systems and quality.
1:06
One of the things he said was, if you can't describe what you do as a process, you don't
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have a process.
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And I was like, that's what I've seen from top loan officers is everything is a process.
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You're defined, you know, lead comes in call, you know, and I'm doing soup to not processing,
1:25
post-close.
1:26
It's all a process.
1:27
Hey there, Jeff Zimfer.
1:44
Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
1:47
I am thrilled you decided to tune in, of course.
1:51
As always, we are on episode 260, 260.
1:56
Hey, and if you've been listening for some time, I sure would appreciate you taking a moment
1:59
right now on your smartphone wherever you're listening to this tap through and tell you
2:03
find the leave a review part of the podcast app and go ahead and leave us a review wherever
2:09
you're listening to this Spotify iTunes or somewhere else.
2:12
Appreciate that helps us reach more people and add more value.
2:17
In addition, good news.
2:18
I wanted to bring to you some good news and who doesn't like good news.
2:23
So look, we're in a situation in a market where I just got off the phone earlier with a
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couple of officers and one of the primary focuses that they're shifting to, of course, is going
2:31
back to re-engaging, rebuilding, igniting or reaching out to new, realtor partners to
2:37
build relationships.
2:39
That's the buzz word, build relationships as if that you shouldn't have always been doing
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that, right?
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Of course, you should have.
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Maybe you got taken aside by the refi, live and die by the refi.
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And now I'm hearing a lot of loan officers calling agents across the country and a same
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is lame approach is falling flat.
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It's not working.
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Let me tell you about our company.
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Let me tell you about our great rates are, let me tell you about this or that.
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How about we shift the conversation to how can I help you?
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How about we shift the conversation to what's your biggest challenge right now with the
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market shift?
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What's changed in your business plan for the rest of this year in into 2023?
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And I ask because I think I can help.
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That's the stuff we're coaching realtor or loan officers on right now, how to approach
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realtor and have conversations.
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We're also helping loan officers build their personal brand in their local community and
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scaling, right?
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Reaching maximum agents in minimum time and getting referrals on demand.
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You've heard it before.
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That's right.
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My agent classes.
3:37
Hot off the press.
3:37
I got a brand new, brand new success story from Jeremy in Arkansas.
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Jeremy sent me an email yesterday.
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He says, I have a home buyer class that I'm doing with a new agent as a result of your
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platform.
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They already have 75 registered for this class and the class isn't even until October
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22nd.
4:00
The day is September 27th.
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Now, my question is for you, the name of the game is attention.
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The name of the game is value.
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The name of the game is, how do I help my realtor partner succeed?
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How do I bring them, right, opportunities and deals?
4:15
How do I help them with their business, lead with an educational platform?
4:20
There's lots of different ways to do that.
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And we help you do that through our weekly live Zoom coaching calls that we do every single
4:25
week in my agent classes and the mortgage marketing pro membership.
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You want to get results like Jamie?
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You want to get results like the other success stories we've talked about for the last
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few weeks here.
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What are you waiting for?
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Go over to mortgagemarketing.pro.
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Check it out if it's right for you great.
4:40
If it's not, what is your plan?
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How are you going to get in front of the existing flow of business that is going to be coming
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from realtors?
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And how are you going to actually be a modern mortgage professional and take care of the digital
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side of things as well, the consumer first set, your social presence, generating your
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own leads, and then having a platform and a process to be able to manage those leads
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effectively follow up nurture and convert.
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That's what we do for our members over at my agent classes.
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You get both sides of that.
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You get the traditional realtor database marketing relationships referrals.
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And then you get the modern mortgage originator side of things with the tools and platform.
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We provide, I call it the hybrid loan officer.
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Maybe you'd like to become one go to mortgagemarketing.pro.
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This week, we're turning the tables.
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My wonderful good friend, Carl White, who I've been a fan of.
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And brother for, we think it's been 15 years we talk on this podcast.
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So here's the thing, right?
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I asked Carl to be on the podcast because Carl is one of the most influential people in
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this industry is help tons of people be successful and build profitable businesses.
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You may have heard of him in the Freedom Club and the mortgage marketing animals, which
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you can go check both of those out.
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We'll provide links in the show notes for that as well.
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But Carl asked if he could turn the tables and ask me questions.
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And so I said, sure, I'm always up for a challenge, right?
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Step out of side of my conference zone.
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So on this episode, what you're going to hear is Carl asking me questions.
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It's not often that I get interviewed, I'd love more opportunities for that.
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But Carl's asking the questions on this episode and we have a surprisingly meaningful and
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impactful and I think conversation that moves us on one level, but also I think is inspirational
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for you if you're going to listen to this too.
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So I hope you enjoy it.
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If you did, hey, reach out to me, let me know.
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You can email me DM me on Facebook or leave a review, like I said earlier.
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So you know what we're going to do now.
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We're going to get into this week's show.
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Carl White, welcome to the show brother, it is great to hear to be here, Jeff, but you
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know, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of, we're buddies, right?
6:49
Sir.
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Yeah, we've been friends.
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Dude, we've been friends a long time, Jeff.
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I know.
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I was thinking about that recently, it's at least 10 years.
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Oh, it's, it's at least 10 years.
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It's, I think it's more than that.
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I think it's close, probably closer to, probably closer to 15 if I'm kind of tracking
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back.
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Anyway, so I'm going to pull something on you here.
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So you were kind enough to reach out to me and said, hey, man, I'd like to interview
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for a podcast.
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And, and I listened to your podcast, which by the way, just was in, I think it was at
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Housing Wire.
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It was one of the top podcasts in the nation.
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Well, we're both featured in there.
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So yes, we're.
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But yeah, yes.
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Yeah.
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So awesome.
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Congratulations brother.
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And so I listen to your podcast all the time, dude, and dude, you do some great, you know,
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you do some great interviews and you're going to be humble and go, well, you know, whatever.
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But you and I both know you do some great, great, great interviews.
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But as I said, dude, nobody ever interviews you and you talk to all these people, all
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these loan officers and company owners and influencers and people that make all these
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great tools and the Dave savages and mortgage coach and boomerang and all this stuff that
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you do, nobody ever asked you about, what do you know?
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And so, so if you, if you don't mind, kind of turn the table here and you know, everybody
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knows we, this is a podcast that's recording, dude, if you don't like it, we can just delete
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it out.
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We'll do something else.
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But then edit all this stuff out.
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But I really would, I put together a couple questions here last evening when I was thinking
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about doing this.
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I'd like to ask you a couple questions and kind of interview you, is that, can we, it's
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kind of weird.
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It's kind of like going on the Johnny Carson show and say, yeah, wait, I want to interview
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Johnny.
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But dude, what a great interview.
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That would be, wouldn't it?
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I mean, really, it would be, that would be really cool.
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Yeah.
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So is it okay if I do that?
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Yes.
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I will do my best to answer the questions and deliver value.
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So, all right.
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I'm ready.
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Warmed up.
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Let's go, baby.
8:45
All right.
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So, so, you know, dude, you've been doing this a long time and I think, you know, there's
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a couple of reasons why your podcast is so popular.
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So number one, it's great content and it is.
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But that's not the secret sauce.
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Your secret sauce is your energy.
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You have a fantastic energy level and it's what, it's what, dude, I just love you, man.
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I think you're just an awesome dude, right?
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And you've been helpful for me and I know lots of loan officers.
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But this enthusiasm you have, it's, it's, it's, I find it interesting.
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Like what is it about, like the mortgage and real estate industry, like that you just
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love?
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Like, where does this passion come, like, really, where does this passion come from?
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Yeah.
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That's a good question and that is accurate.
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It is a passion and I remember back to my early days, 2003 when I got in the business and
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I was, you know, making a decision about what direction I was going to go because I had
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recently stopped, you know, kind of being in the seminar business for Tony Robbins back
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on the day and all that kind of jet.
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So anyway, first and foremost, I think interestingly enough, the people, like the community of
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friends and network that I've maintained and I'm sure you have as well for 10 plus years
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in this industry is seems unique and different than as I look at other industries.
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And I don't know if that was so, how so?
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I mean, it's a little bit different than the real estate side, if I dare say so, meaning
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real estate agents, whereas I find generally we in the mortgage space, the mortgage professionals
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are much more open and willing to share that on the real estate agent side and not to go
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down that rabbit hole, but it's just I've never, never really had a situation where people
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like, Oh, no, I can't share that or I can't say that or that's just my thing, my own,
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you know what I mean?
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Because everybody's in, they understand what the struggle is, right?
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Let's face it, this is a hard industry and there are lots and lots of challenges over
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the years in this industry.
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But everything I think, at least the good people, right?
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That's who is in my world, let's say this, because I know there can be probably some
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people who maybe don't adhere to this, but I just forget the sense that we're all collectively
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here.
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And maybe I'm polyanna, like hoping, you know, kind of cheering on other success of results.
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So I don't know if that's the answer, like you were expecting, but also I kind of fell
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in love with this industry because the difference you can make, this is going to sound choosing
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cliche.
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But I remember like when I was doing first time homebuyers and during their first loans.
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And even like people who you're doing their second loan, their third loan or working
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with somebody who, you know, has a unique situation, self-employed and they want to buy
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a $2 million house and, you know, tax ride-offs and all, you get to solve problems, I guess.
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Yeah.
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That's what I love about this industry.
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I like solving problems and it's really cool to do that.
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Hmm.
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Hmm.
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That's very interesting.
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So, so is the, is like the problem solving, like your favorite part, or could I heard
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two things there?
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I heard people in problem solving and sharing, which by the way, I couldn't agree with you
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more that that is a very unique thing about this industry.
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And I find it particularly, I agree with you with the loan officers, we're really agents
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too, right?
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We're not throwing them under the bus, well, not, not completely under the legs.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Maybe the legs, but not the body, not their torso, you know, but, yeah, yeah, but, yeah,
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I have found the same thing, man, that like you go to loan officer conferences, man up
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there on stage, top producers, man, this is exactly what I do, you know, and, uh, and
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oftentimes, you know, holding nothing back.
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So, yeah, I, I could agree with that.
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Hey, well, speaking of which, though, all right, so there's another question I want to
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ask you just real quick.
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So you've interviewed a lot of loan officers, like a lot.
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And frankly, not just interviewed them, like here on the podcast, but just hanging out,
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you know, at the, dude, every time you're at a conference, it's like, you think that Brad
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Pitt had just walked across, you know, walked into the crowd, everybody's flocking to him,
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you know, kind of thing.
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But when, like, when you're talking with all these loan officers, these top producers,
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like is there any kind of, I don't know, like, what do you see in common?
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Like, what, what are they, either who they are or what they're doing or their habits
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or the systems they have, like, you know, like recurring themes that you see to the
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top producers?
13:14
Yeah.
13:15
Um, 100%.
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Uh, first and foremost, what comes up for me there is mindset.
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How they see themselves is different.
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And how they see their role is different, meaning, um, I would say most don't see themselves
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as a loan officer.
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They see themselves as a business owner and that drives everything.
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And I know you know, very well mindset is everything, right?
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It's like that old, that old thing we've seen that meme, that post of the, the cat looking
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in the mirror and sees a lion.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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I think that's what, that's what some of the more successful LOs I've seen is they see
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themselves as that lion.
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Um, now that doesn't mean they got there immediately or overnight, but at some point you
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got to realize, right, that you need, it's all how you see yourself.
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Do you see yourself as a salesperson or a business owner because everything will,
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will, will, will change based on that perception or mindset about yourself.
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How you set up your business, your structure, how you communicate, right?
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How committed you are to improvement, soup to nuts.
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That's the, if I would say if there's an any overarching thing, that's it for me.
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And then we can get into like, you know, other systems and processes, but that's the first
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step.
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You know, it, that kind of reminds me of a thing, um, uh, you know, you know, Perry Belcher,
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right?
14:27
Yeah.
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I learned a lot from that, dude, man.
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He's, he's, he's, he's, uh, he's an awesome, not in this industry, you know, he's
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in a different industry, but he taught me something one time.
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He said, uh, Carl, let me tell you something.
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Good sales people think sales is a good thing.
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And bad sales people think sales is a bad thing.
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And I think it's having that mindset of the, the top producers have this mindset of, I,
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I have a product that helps people, and I'm going to let as many people as I know, know
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that.
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And the people that worry about what I don't want to be salesy, yeah, that, that's not
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going to work out so well, you know, or I don't want to be, I don't know, you know,
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you know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
15:09
Yeah.
15:10
Yeah.
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What, what do you think that I got?
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So what do you think?
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What, what is that?
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What is it that I'm a loan officer and, but yet I don't let all my friends and family,
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I don't, I don't have a call to action.
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Like anytime I'm talking with friends and family members, I hold off and like, well, they
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know what I do.
15:32
I don't want to be pushy.
15:34
Yeah.
15:35
What is that that holds us back when we know if we made more offers, like if we let more,
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if we actually ask for the business more, we'd close more loans.
15:42
Yeah.
15:43
What do you think it is?
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Which the top producers, that goes, this goes back to the top producers.
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What do you think that it is that holds the average loan officer, the, here, better question.
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What do you think it is that holds the average loan officer back?
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Now, on the context of asking, I think it's fear of rejection, fear of judgment, fear of
16:03
rejection.
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How do you overcome that?
16:09
That's a great question, because I've definitely dealt with that myself.
16:16
And I think it gets down to, at some point, you've got to accept the fact that if you have
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done the work, so to speak, air quotes, done the work, meaning you actually know what
16:30
you're talking about.
16:31
It reminds me of, like, lately, I've been listening to Alex Ramozi, you know, he is,
16:36
yes, guy.
16:37
And so he talks about putting content out there and, you know, what's good content.
16:42
And one of the things he says is, well, first of all, do something, like do good shit,
16:47
is what he says, and then tell people about what you do.
16:52
And I think the more good you do, the more results you get, the better job you do for
16:59
people to the level at which you actually care about helping people solve problems, right?
17:06
Your belief is going to go up for that, if that makes sense, a little bit of a long road
17:09
to get there.
17:10
But I think to your question about how do you change that is, you know, more results for
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sure, you know, and you having actual knowledge, knowledge that you can actually make a difference
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with the knowledge you have and you engage to somebody, does that make sense?
17:25
Yeah.
17:26
So what you're saying is, is worth the nose or the risk of the nose is worth the benefit
17:34
of helping those people to say yes.
17:36
Well, and again, that goes back to mindset too, right?
17:38
You got to understand that failure is part of the game, right?
17:42
And that's just like, you know, when you're driving across country and you're seeing those
17:45
little mile markers along the road, like some of those are going to be failure, you know
17:50
I mean, I used to keep driving, man, that's just like, okay, you're on your north star
17:55
is that destination.
17:57
And there's going to be some road stops and failures, mile markers, et cetera, along
18:01
the way, you know, and that's just, oh, another one, okay, they said no, we're shit screwed
18:04
that up.
18:05
Whoops.
18:06
You know what I mean?
18:07
Yeah.
18:08
I like that.
18:09
Yeah, I think it's really that.
18:10
So dude, I think we all suffer with it, right?
18:11
It's just some, some take, keep, let that keep them from all the wonderful things they
18:19
could have and helping so many other people.
18:23
And it keeps them from that and others do it anyway, just simply push through it and
18:27
they help people.
18:28
Hey, on these top producers, any particular systems or anything that they're using, like
18:33
that you see in common, like, like, like, or something that they're doing that, that
18:38
the average one officer isn't doing.
18:40
Yeah, I think first and foremost is they don't wing it.
18:43
They don't wing it what they say.
18:45
They actually have a predefined dialogue or talk track.
18:49
There I say scripting, yeah, that dirty word, because a lot of people have associations
18:55
to the word scripting, right?
18:57
But I think there's a book I love and I interviewed this guy in the podcast.
19:01
It's exactly what to say when you need to say it or something like that, Phil Jones,
19:07
and he wrote that version specific for the real estate industry.
19:10
But one of the things he said is the worst time to think about what to say is in the
19:15
moment you need to say it.
19:17
I was like, that's pretty brilliant, man, because somebody says no, or the rates too high,
19:23
or no, I'm not going to send you a referral.
19:25
Like, what do you like?
19:27
Your brain's got to come up with an answer then?
19:29
No, it's like, you better know what your response is to that, you know what I mean?
19:34
I do that.
19:35
I've always thought of, I like scripts, I mean, like you, like what you're saying, I look,
19:42
if you ask me my phone number, I'm going to give you the exact sequence of numbers every
19:48
single time.
19:49
It's a script because if I change that up in any way, shape, or form and substitute one
19:55
of those numbers for another one, we're not going to get the same result.
19:59
When you go out to reach out to call me, you're not going to get, I'm not going to have
20:02
the opportunity to speak to you because it was the wrong script, the wrong number
20:07
was given there.
20:08
And so I think like, you know, when people ask, what's your rate or why should I refer
20:14
to you?
20:15
Brother, if you don't have a, if you don't have a, as my friend Steve Kiles calls it,
20:19
conversations by design, if you don't have a design conversation, would that answer
20:24
already a mind of how to answer that?
20:27
Brother, you're going to get spanked by the one that does.
20:29
I'm just telling you.
20:30
So there's no way, we call it the rectal extraction method.
20:33
There's no way you're going to pull it out of your butt.
20:35
Yeah.
20:36
An answer that somebody else has practiced that same answer.
20:38
So I like that.
20:39
So it's script any any other specific system?
20:42
Yeah.
20:43
Well, you said the key word system.
20:47
You know, I'm thinking about my old friend, Derek, calling him Michael Gerber, author
20:50
of the emath and stuff.
20:52
Michael many, many years ago and had interviewed him as well and spent some time with him
20:56
and his wife.
20:57
And so if any, you know, anything about Michael Gerber, he's always about the system
21:00
as the solution, right?
21:02
And most people spend too much time working in their business instead of on their business,
21:07
right?
21:08
And so what I've seen from top producers is they have systems in place for client acquisition,
21:12
for client fulfillment, for everything soup to nuts.
21:16
Now I know this is at various levels based on where you're at your career, if you're just
21:19
starting out, you're going to build these things as the planes flying, right?
21:22
So I'll speak.
21:23
But you've got to have systems in place for all those things and a process.
21:28
It's funny.
21:29
Whenever I get interviewed, I get all these little quotes and cliches coming back in my
21:33
head.
21:34
And I remember Edward Stemming.
21:35
Edward Stemming.
21:36
I have not.
21:37
He was the guy who was the father of the total quality movement.
21:42
And so back in the, you know, after it was at World War II, he actually went over to
21:46
Japan and helped the Japan car manufacturers with their quality movement, right?
21:52
This is an American guy, right?
21:53
Called over there to help Japan improve their quality, their output of their products for
21:58
the auto industry.
21:59
And of course, we know Japan kicked our ass for a number of years in the auto industry.
22:03
Fast forward long, long story short, he came over and obviously did the same thing for
22:06
the US.
22:07
But the point is he was an expert about systems and quality.
22:09
And one of the things he said was, if you can't describe what you do as a process, you
22:14
don't have a process.
22:17
And I was like, that's what I've seen from top loan us officers is everything is a process.
22:24
You're defined, you know, lead comes in call, you know, I mean, souped and not processing,
22:29
post-close.
22:30
It's all a process.
22:32
Hey, I, you know, a couple, a few minutes ago, you mentioned that you used to work for
22:39
Tony Robbins.
22:41
Mm-hmm.
22:42
Fantastic, amazing guy, of course.
22:46
What's, what's one thing you learned from him?
22:48
Well, a few things are top of it in my head, but uh, that you can, that you can report
23:00
here on the podcast.
23:02
Exactly.
23:04
Um, man, that's, I haven't, I'm, you caught me off guard with that one.
23:10
Um, hmm, I'm, I'm like tap, I'm hitting this emotional side right now, I'm like, you
23:15
know, what's the impact he made on, on my life on that journey way back then?
23:20
Um, and maybe that's it, man, maybe, maybe make an impact called people that aren't watching
23:27
this, uh, we're on a podcast, you and I are on a zoom where watch these other, I can,
23:31
I can see the emotion on your face here with that question.
23:34
That's, uh, that's impressive, actually, um, well, all right, so give you the context
23:40
of that his, his book, his first book in limited power was the book I read, which, which
23:45
caused me to want to go work for him.
23:46
And it was the first time, like I had read other personal development books, like, um,
23:51
you know, finger a rich and, uh, the Norman Vincent peel and all that kind of jazz.
23:56
And I literally remember, I'm living in Maine and living at my parents house, I'll, you
23:59
know, reading these books and I'm like, working on myself and all that stuff.
24:02
And his book was the first book I read where the lights went on.
24:05
It was like, you can control this thing right here, this brain pointing out my head
24:10
for those, uh, um, but you can control your mind.
24:13
You can control the dialogue you have with yourself, the questions you ask yourself.
24:16
You can control how you forecast your vision, like how you see your, and I was just like,
24:21
Holy shit, nobody's ever like said that before, right?
24:24
And I'm like, I can absolutely, Carl, it sounds funny.
24:27
I said this to myself.
24:29
You mean I can actually take control of my life and do what I want to do with it?
24:33
Like to me, that was like earth shattering.
24:38
You know, that, that sounds a lot, um, and I know other people might have said this in
24:42
the past, but the first time I heard it, we're from a lady, her name is, uh, Lee Miltier.
24:47
Sure.
24:48
Yeah.
24:49
Lee Miltier, yeah.
24:50
Yeah.
24:51
Okay.
24:52
Yeah.
24:53
So she taught me, she said something to me one time that was a, I've had a, probably,
25:01
you could count on one hand.
25:03
What I would call life changing moments, and this was one of them.
25:06
She said, Carl, you're the director, you're the producer, and you're the writer of your
25:15
story.
25:16
And the wonderful thing is you get to choose the scripting.
25:21
You get to choose the supporting cast, right, big one, um, and do not ever, ever, ever
25:29
hand that ink pen to somebody else, right?
25:33
That's your ink pen.
25:34
You get to decide who's in your movie with you and what role do you play and what role
25:38
do they play?
25:39
And so it sounds like that same kind of thing what you're talking about with Tony.
25:43
So it's interesting.
25:44
The visualization of that with like people in your lives and you get to script and write
25:48
the whole thing.
25:49
And yeah.
25:50
Yeah.
25:51
Well, I can tell you, man, on a personal level, there is no other person that I would,
25:55
uh, having you as, uh, uh, uh, in the cast of my story, um, it's been a really good
26:02
ride, man.
26:03
It has.
26:04
So it's been a really good ride.
26:05
So I, uh, I, uh, I'm glad I, I'm glad I wrote that chapter, uh, the day that we met.
26:10
I don't even remember where we met.
26:11
Do you remember where we met?
26:12
I can't.
26:13
And Kennedy event.
26:14
Okay.
26:15
Okay.
26:16
Okay.
26:17
Okay.
26:18
Okay.
26:19
But I know we, we, we, we've done out at different events and whatnot.
26:20
We recorded a video together at some hotel, like 10 years ago, I think Michael Fito was there
26:25
if that thing.
26:26
I still have that video.
26:27
I still have that video.
26:28
I have to bring that out.
26:29
I've got a paper plate out.
26:30
That's right.
26:31
That's a million dollar paper plate.
26:32
So, uh, I'll, I'll dig that out.
26:33
I still got that.
26:34
I'll dig that out.
26:35
That'll be awesome.
26:36
That'll be fun to watch.
26:37
So, uh, hey, um, uh, uh, like right now, we find ourselves in a changing market, right?
26:48
And so as we're recording this today, um, what can or should loan officers be currently
26:54
doing with the current market to get business now and to build like the future pipeline?
27:00
Sure.
27:01
What, uh, what, what action items, what, what action or what, what should they be doing
27:05
now with, with, uh, today's more anything different than last year?
27:08
Is it like the same thing?
27:09
Yes.
27:10
Different.
27:11
Lots different than last year because all you did last year was trying to facilitate
27:14
the ReFi volume, right?
27:15
Yeah.
27:16
Yeah.
27:17
Um, that's what we did for the last two years is we were facilitators because it was
27:21
like the friggin tsunami of refives was hitting the shores and you're just like scrambling
27:26
to put the, you know, handle the volume.
27:29
You didn't have to sell.
27:30
You didn't have to market.
27:31
You didn't have to work on your script.
27:33
Your mindset, everything was great.
27:35
Maybe champagne, corks popping, right?
27:37
All that kind of jazz, paddle service, I mean, it's like the visual that everybody is
27:43
living off of high on the hog and all of a sudden that your tsunami has like sucked
27:48
out, gone back out.
27:49
And then you see who's naked, right?
27:51
Because you're like, oh, my God, right?
27:53
There's a, I love this quite.
27:54
I forget who asked this question years ago.
27:56
Are you successful because of the market or because of your marketing, right?
28:00
And for obviously for two years, we were successful because of the market, like you made more
28:03
money ever made and like, I don't think anybody smart people knew that this wasn't going
28:08
to last forever.
28:09
There was going to be a hangover, right?
28:11
And so some people have a hangover today.
28:13
So what do you, what do you got to do?
28:14
Well, I'm a big believer in, like I have written down on my whiteboard here, be brilliant
28:19
in the basics, fundamentals.
28:22
I think of like, who's the famous Green Bay coach, right?
28:28
The football coach.
28:29
Vince Lombardi.
28:30
Vince Lombardi, fundamentals, baby, right?
28:32
Be brilliant in the fundamentals and what are the fundamentals?
28:35
It's database, stay in touch with your database, reach out to them.
28:39
It is, so I've been playing with this term, like hybrid loan officer.
28:43
And what I mean by that is a hybrid loan officer, I think this is kind of the yellow of the
28:46
future, is you've got to maintain the fundamentals, which is past client database, sphere of influence,
28:54
referral parts, et cetera, like that, I don't think that that's your go-to guarantee.
28:59
That's your eat your spinach, take your vitamins, get your sleep, you're going to have a healthy
29:03
business.
29:05
Then what you layer on to that is, you know, more of the modern stuff, this is where the
29:08
hybrid word comes in, is then you layer on to that your digital presence, right?
29:13
Whatever that means, social media, that means where the Google paper click ads, that means
29:17
having a digital presence and active digital presence, so you can have a net lines in the
29:21
water, right, to capture what's obvious is people getting business from digital.
29:26
I think that's the other side of the coin that you also need to play, moving forward,
29:33
because we know that's where the attention is going to be.
29:37
There's some good stuff there, one thing you're dead on, for the last couple of years,
29:43
I mean, we were all patting ourselves on the back saying how awesome amazing we are,
29:48
it's like you're on a bicycle going down a hill, going down the mountain side with a 50-mile
29:55
hour win on your backside, of course we did great. I literally got alone while checking my male,
30:03
because my male man, I went out to go check my male, I'm walking out there, he's pulling up
30:07
at the same time just by chance, same male man for, I don't know, seven years or so for a long time,
30:12
and I'm walking out there, we always do our little, I don't know, a couple of times a month,
30:17
we happen to be out there at the same time, we do our wave and whatnot, and he stopped me and he
30:22
said, hey Carl, let me have something, you're in the mortgage business, right, because I see
30:26
your male that comes in, and you're in the mortgage business, right? Yeah, me and the
30:29
Mrs has been thinking about refinancing, and just didn't know if it was a good time, we okay if
30:33
we reach out to you, you know, you're somebody I trust, so literally I was checking my male,
30:39
and we had a loan come in, right? So, that's the mailbox money right there. Do you know a guy
30:45
named Jim Reed by chance? I don't think so. I was listening to Jim Reed, I heard him on a podcast,
30:52
and a really smart guy, and he said, I'm going to work for the next two years,
31:03
that would be the work that I should have had to done for the last two years to make the kind of
31:08
money that I made. So, for the next two years, I'm going to do the work that should have been
31:13
required to make the same amount of money I made for the last two years, and I thought, man, what a
31:19
great perspective on that. So, I thought that was really interesting. Hey, all right, so what
31:29
L.O. should be doing right now is what I hear you is fundamentals, and I like the way you say it,
31:35
and then stack the digital stuff on top of it. It's not one or the other, it's a stacking process,
31:42
and I catch that right? Yeah, I just think, look, it's digital sexy, right? And there's a lot of people
31:48
pushing, promoting digital, and you see people talking about, I interview people all the time,
31:51
who get deals from digital. Whatever that is, fill in the blank. I interview a guy from Australia
31:57
who got 5,000 leads with a 10% conversion from TikTok. Now, some people hear that, and they're like,
32:05
they'll say, well, that's it, I need to go and be on TikTok. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
32:10
right? You got to understand the context and all that kind of jazz and what's right for you.
32:15
So my point, I guess, in saying that is, yes, they should be focusing on the fundamentals first,
32:20
and then build your house first, contact your past client, contact your before. I mean, one simple
32:25
thing is, how many deals did you close in the past year with listing agents that you have no
32:29
relationship with? And I know you know this web very well. Your community trains on all this,
32:34
but that's low-hang and fruit. One of the things that I'm coaching my
32:39
L.O.s on is to call those listing agents or others you have relationships with and just be like,
32:43
hey, Carl, what's up? Jeff blah, blah, blah, blah. Context. Hey, so obviously the market has
32:48
shifted. And I'm just curious, how's this impacted your business plan for the rest of the year?
32:52
Like, what changes are you going to make and how can I help? Like, you know what I mean,
32:55
that's another just very simple script that anybody can do.
32:58
How do you, so like L.O. officers reach out to you? How do you help them? What's your secret sauce?
33:05
What's a, what's what, how do you help L.O. officers?
33:10
So I help them with the fundamentals primarily. And then, you know, we also do things on the
33:14
digital side, but primarily what I do is I help L.O. officers create referrals on demand for
33:18
middle-state agents. And we do that by leading with an educational platform of classes. So they'll
33:23
go into their local market or over Zoom. They'll teach agent classes to to realtors. They'll get,
33:29
you know, 10, 20, 30 agents in a room and they'll have immediate conversations. You know, out of that,
33:34
if you get 20 agents in a room and you do it well and you follow the system, you should easily get
33:38
three or four conversations immediately booked before you leave the room. Which, of course,
33:43
leads to referrals. So, you know, we give them the whole system plug and play on all the classes
33:47
and templates and help them fill the room, souped in UTS. And that's kind of primarily what I do.
33:53
Brother, I can tell you right now that set of activities has moved the needle for me the most
33:59
in my mortgage career, literally, than any other single thing, for sure. That that, I became like
34:06
a staple diet down at the local real estate association. In our case, a young lady that is the,
34:15
you know, works the desk there. Brother, I became her new best friend, you know. And so they would
34:21
call us up, like I got to get calls from her sometimes. It'd be like literally seven o'clock at
34:25
night. Hey, we're supposed to have somebody speak in the morning, you know, whatever. They broke
34:28
their ankle. They're dog ate their homework or something like that. We need somebody at
34:33
9 o'clock tomorrow. Can you, can you, can you step in and help? Yes, I can.
34:37
That has been a really, really good thing. And having somebody help produce a proven here,
34:45
teach this type of stuff would be an awesome, awesome, awesome thing to have.
34:55
Like for you personally, I'm going to ask you kind of a personal question if I can.
34:59
For you personally, what's been your biggest business related challenge in your career?
35:03
What's been the hardest thing for you personally? Open the curtain up a little bit and let us
35:09
look inside. Open the curtain up. No judgment.
35:15
So we touched on it earlier with mindset, but specifically for me and mindset,
35:20
and I think you and I talked about this last time we chatted, you know,
35:27
you're in your own little world. You're in your own little head and you want to make a
35:32
difference. You want to help people. But for me personally, I would always, let's just say this
35:38
imposter syndrome comparison mode. Looking at quite honestly, people like you, people like bear
35:43
a hippie, people like Todd Duncan, whatever. And I'm like, okay, so I'm going to try and go to
35:49
the market with this thing. And I'm like, gosh, is this really going to make a difference?
35:54
Like am I ever going to be considered? Okay, okay. I got to stop the ever just second.
35:59
Yeah. Dude, this is so freaky. So dude, I'm intimidated by you. Oh, stop.
36:06
I'm not saying this to be funny. Like you and I are brothers. Yeah. I'm telling you, I'm
36:12
not that you're an intimidating guy. You know, when I saw the, you know, when I reached out to you
36:17
and said, hey, I'd like to be on the podcast. I was like, God, I hope he says yes. You know,
36:23
and I'm sitting there going, man, I'm sorry. Isn't that funny? You know, you know what that is,
36:28
that's, that goes back to a thing. I think a mutual friend of ours, Frank Kern, taught me this.
36:33
He said, Carl, people don't think about you near as much as you think they do. They're too worried
36:37
about what you think of them. And, uh, isn't that funny? I think that imposter syndrome,
36:45
everybody deals with it, everybody, everybody. I've met like you have. I've met some, uh,
36:50
like famous, you know, like real famous people and, uh, and talked, I talked, uh, I've met with
36:57
some famous political figures. I'm not going to say who because, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've met
37:04
with both sides, right? Just I love hanging out with successful people like you and, uh, and even,
37:09
even these nationally known, everybody knows their name political, you know, when you're having
37:14
lunch alone and having a very open, uh, you know, intimate, per se conversation, they too,
37:22
have this imposter syndrome. I had to stop you because as you were saying, like, you feel like
37:27
you had to measure up. I swear, I think the same thing when I think of you. Isn't that funny?
37:32
It is funny. And I don't know. Yeah. Where does that come from, man? I don't know. I wish I could
37:37
work through that, but you're right. Everybody suffers with it. And then what's interesting, you,
37:41
often the not, right? You tell me as you find out that more often than not, not always. But
37:45
the person is, is, is like cool and humble and, you know, pretty chill. Almost always. In fact,
37:52
if they're being totally honest, I would say always, just sometimes I still play that front,
37:57
I call it a wall. They got that wall up that they're trying to, you know, hide behind,
38:01
you know, so to speak. And so I'd say always, if I given that, if I, if I'm given an ample
38:07
opportunity to really get to know them or them, me, you know, works both ways, of course, that,
38:12
that, you know, I think it goes back to people, which goes back really to
38:18
loan officers reaching out to real estate agents. They're not near as big and bad as we,
38:24
you know, I'm thinking of the big bad wolf kind of thing. I mean, bad netizens. They're not
38:27
nearly as big and bad as we think they are, because they're, they're concerned about what I'm going
38:32
to think of them. Yeah, so related. When I was marketing to agents back early, early in the day,
38:39
I was freaking scared to go after these big hitters, you know, dude, I'm still scared.
38:44
Yes, not was. It is. I'm still scared. You know, that's like, that's like you and I both do a
38:49
lot of speak, which by the way, anybody's listening to this, if you ever need a great speaker,
38:52
Jeff is a phenomenal, you're a phenomenal, uh, uh, uh, uh, presenter. You're just an
38:58
absolutely spectacular presenter. And, and, and I lost my train of thought of where I was going
39:03
with that. It's big hunt. We're hunting, you know, big bad wolf. I was scared of agents. And you
39:08
said, yeah, so anyway, they're, they're, they're, I think everybody's, uh, everybody has that,
39:13
has that fear. And I think it's just, uh, you know, there was a book. The book was just okay.
39:19
The title was phenomenal. So the title was feel the fear and do it anyway. And, uh,
39:28
well, that simple, uh, that simple thought has been a game changer for me is, uh, just feel the
39:34
fear and do it anyway. Uh, with Jeff, I, uh, uh, you, you, you told me, uh, right before we hit the
39:39
record button, uh, you and I can sit here and talk for literally hours upon hours. You said,
39:45
hey, man, somehow we got to keep this to somewhere around drive time 30 minutes or so.
39:49
Is, is there anything I should have asked you on, on, on, uh, this, uh, reverse interview,
39:55
thing? I think we had to call that reverse interview TM, little T, little, um, you know, like,
40:00
I think I should have asked you that I didn't, um, I'll just take your, take your humble hat off.
40:05
Take one of them. Well, for anybody who wants to learn more about what I do with the agent
40:08
classes and wants to get referrals on demand for middle estate agents, I suggest you go to
40:12
mortgagemarketing.pro, go check that out. There's a video I put up there. It'll show you everything.
40:17
And if it's for you, great mortgagemarketing.pro. And, uh, let's, let's both all of us together work
40:22
through our comfort zone and our imposter syndrome and get you in front of more agents and get more
40:27
referrals. I can tell you, there's a, there's a fantastic thing that comes with teaching.
40:33
And I call it the golden apple in every known society. A teacher is always held on a pedestal.
40:41
Like always. And there's this interesting thing that, uh, again, I call it the golden apple that
40:48
once somebody teaches us something, and we can all relate to this, once somebody teaches us something,
40:53
we hold them in great, great reverend, right? And we want to, you know, the whole thing of
40:58
bringing the teacher and apple. It's not the brown nose or whatever it is. It's, it's a gratitude
41:02
thing. It's like you, you, you, you want to do that. And I know some of my great teachers,
41:07
dude, I'll write them pretty good sized checks to teach me. And I still feel like I owed them,
41:13
you know, like I, like I want to, I want to, I want to give back to them. And that's where,
41:18
when we teach real estate agents, they want, they, it's just an inherent thing. They want to
41:23
get back to us and how they get back to us is, is referrals. So it's a, it's a remarkable thing.
41:29
And, and you said something earlier, I want to make sure everybody got after you teach somebody,
41:33
when you reach out to try to set a coffee appointment, it's a much higher conversion ratio
41:39
because they know you. And you're, how do you say it? Like, like a local celebrity of sorts.
41:46
Sure. Well, like, like, like, like, like the weatherman or, or the weather lady or something like
41:50
that. It's a, it's a very interesting dynamic. And I found that teaching, it's been a really,
41:55
really, really good thing for me. So, great, dynamic. Yep. Good, good stuff, man.
42:02
Thank you. Dude, absolute honor being on your show, man. This was a fascinating
42:07
interview. So all these things I always wanted to ask in and just, just never had the chance to.
42:12
And so, I appreciate you letting us turn the tables on this. And, hey, can I ask you one more?
42:19
Sure. If, if, um, what do you think for loan officers?
42:29
Like, what's one problem when sobbed? Um, solves 50 other problems for them. And, and maybe,
42:36
maybe it goes right back to this teaching thing. Yeah, I know the answer to that already.
42:39
The answer is, the answer is client acquisition. Um, I mean, that's the, the number one thing
42:45
for any business, right? Once you get that solved, everything else becomes easier.
42:50
And, and you know what's cool about the real estate agent thing, man?
42:54
So, it hurts my save one time. So Carl, I don't want all my, all my loans coming from one source.
42:59
Well, dude, get two agents. And now you have two sources.
43:02
Get 10 agents. And now you have 10 sources. That's good. Good answer. Yeah. So it's like, dude,
43:07
that's not what, if you, if you've only got one agent, one source, you've got a problem. I agree
43:11
with that. It's much, much, much, much, much more stable, having a bunch of agents, rather than,
43:17
and I love the digital marketing, right? I love it. We do a lot of it. But here's the thing
43:21
about the digital marketing. I am one person's decision at Facebook where they turn my ads off.
43:30
And I'm out. Right. We had that happen here just not too long ago. Like, like literally,
43:35
as recorded, true story, we literally had that happen three days ago. And Nina, who's one that
43:39
run my ad, she said, Hey, just FYI, we're, we're in Facebook jail. We don't even know why. We run
43:44
like you do super clean stuff, right? Super, super clean. And Facebook, like literally,
43:50
turn off our ads. And so while that's a very good thing to do, and we do it, if that was my only
43:56
source of business, right? Man, would have been in trouble right there. So, uh, so I love the agent
44:01
thing. So it's such a diversification. And you get this army of agents looking for, uh, referrals
44:07
for you. Exactly. And, uh, God, what better business can, can, it's just a wonderful business.
44:12
So Jeff, thanks again, brother. I really appreciate you and honored to be on your show looking for it,
44:16
hanging out again soon, buddy. Same here, Carl. Appreciate it very much, man. You take care.
44:20
Okay. Bye-bye. Hey, so I hope you enjoyed that episode and special guest. Most importantly,
44:25
always remember to never leave the scene of an idea without putting it into action. So,
44:32
whenever the one big idea, one takeaway is from this episode, please make sure you create a plan
44:37
around that, write it down, put a reminder in your calendar for you, follow through and get some
44:42
of the resources that were shared and just make sure to take action so you can build momentum
44:46
on your ideas. And then, of course, if you're interested in more agent referrals and less time
44:51
with less struggle and building a platform that attracts agents to you and helps you find the best
44:58
agents in your local area that are actually doing the business and generating referrals on demand,
45:04
just like Liz Reyes Laforez does is she recently hosted a class and had 39 agents registered for
45:11
her class, 15 agents attended. Immediately following the class, she got three new purchase loan
45:18
leads and scheduled two appointments immediately after the class. That's just within less than 24
45:23
hours of the class. If you want results like that for yourself, make sure to check out the
45:27
my agent classes and mortgage marketing pro membership over at mortgagemarketing.pro for more
45:33
information and I'll see you on the next one.
46:23
Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before
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and I just want to quickly remind you if that you're in a place in your business where you simply
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need more purchase loans, you need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face it,
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agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you.
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Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more
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loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling. Done for you agent classes, expert
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training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you,
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everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market,
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attract and convert agents into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials
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and plug and play content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats,
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partnering with affiliates, real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly
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mastermind calls with top elbows, authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to
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grow your business right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time for all
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new members, you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed
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anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list
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uploaded into our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually
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productive agents. So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro,
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see more of the success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so,
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book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity
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to take your mortgage business to the next level right now. Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro.