Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / Social Media and OCD - Why a Cute Reel Sent Me Spiraling (OCD)(Episode 29)
Transcript
- Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Hi, y'all. I'm Stacey. And along with my husband, Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us again. This is episode 29. Welcome to the podcast, as you all know now. Talks about all things OCD and ERP related. We're so excited to be coming to you again with another episode, our 29th. And tonight we're going to talk about more things that kind of are going on in our life right now and what triggers my OCD and how Mark is stepping in to help. support that and how I'm trying to even keep myself accountable when certain intrusive thoughts and certain looping thoughts come up. And what I'm really battling right now, and I know so many of you out there who share my diagnosis of OCD, most likely have similar challenges with are my mental compulsions and my ruminations. And a lot of that comes with the territory because I work from home now and Mark works outside of the house and both of our children are in school. And so I'm just which our daughter is no longer at home with you. Right. Which she's now stepped into Yes. In person. In person. So she's not in the house either. And so now here I am at home. And so when things come up for me and I find myself in a looping moment, I have to hold myself accountable because I'm the only one here to do it. And knowing what lies on the other side for me, which I've been very open about sharing, which is that the ERP really does work and it works well and and it makes everything so much better in life that I want to hold myself accountable and I do so now as much as I can. And if nothing else, I'm very honest with either Mark or my therap, with our therapist, to tell them when I've had a moment where I've struggled with ruminations or with with looping thoughts that I needed the mental compulsion, the ritualized conversations that I have with myself in order to bring down that anxiety and and kind of rid myself of those intrusive thoughts. but again, as we've talked about before, we try to keep this podcast as raw, as authentic as possible. And each week brings a new challenge. And we've talked about it before. I hope I have OC today. Or OCD today, I had it last week and I will have it a month from now, a year from now, et cetera. And so what that means is that we're constantly having to be vigilant about exposures and ERP and making sure that we're holding to the standard that we have established now within our family and especially with Mark and I in our marriage, what that means so that we don't take a step backwards because life was much, much different before the intensive treatment. And we don't want to go back to what it was like before. No, but they're but now that you're home, you know, and and you don't have a commute. Yeah. And stuff. So you do have some more free time in your day. And there's one one thing in particular there to particularly that has started to maybe trigger some of your O C D. Yeah. And that's social media. Yes. And I was gonna say I I have the time in my day, so what better way to spend that time but by allow you know, but by getting caught up in my intrusive thoughts and and looping mental status. So what's just kidding, everyone. No, that's not the way to spend your extra time in a reading book. But one of the one of the thing you should be writing your book I should be writing a book and reading books and doing anything else other than getting caught up in intrusive thoughts. But one of the the recent Reels that you saw that Yes. Go yeah. So that kind of triggered one of your your OCD episodes or I expressed this to Mark and I said to him, I said, I think this might be a really great topic for our next episode, which is that I mean, hot take, if you will, or unpopular opinion, if you will, or maybe it isn't so much anymore, because social media isn't always telling us the truth. And social media is always been known as kind of a highlight reel of of other people's lives, which can be a really fun way to keep in contact and connect with other people. But I think when it's so interesting that when you have a diagnosis like OCD, when you pair it with something like social media, how that changes the game. And how that, how it's like one more obstacle or one more piece that you have to consider in your healing, in your therapy, in your treatment, so that you don't get triggered by something that you might see or hear on social media. And I definitely did find that to be true this week. And I shared it with Mark and I thought, how interesting that You know, as as we've talked about before, we're both Gen Xers. You know, we're in our late forties, we're raising two teenage children who are Gen Zers who know nothing but a world filled with technology and the internet and social media, where our generation is the one that bridged pr before internet. We built it. There you go, at a boy, at a boy. But we knew the the world before internet, and then of course we know it after. And so Social media for some of us who are in our forties and fifties perhaps isn't as impactful maybe as it is for people in their teens and twenties. I mean, these kids are on their phones, on their devices, and they're just inundated by social media. Not to say that there isn't a place for it with people our age. I I think that there absolutely is and I love it for that. And I have a certain corner of the social media world that I love now as well. But once again it has a algorithm that starts to know what you're looking at or listens to you if you want to Say it that way too. But, you know, with Miles going to college, you know, now all of a sudden it's like, my gosh, you know, you you sit and you watch a screen for, you know, 15 seconds and it starts to think that that's what you want. Yeah. So then you get inundated by all of these reels of other parents who are sending their oldest children off to college for the first time. And so we feel like in a lot of ways we're in good company. We're not the only parents out there who have done this. I'm not the only mom out there who's done this who also has a diagnosis of OCD. It just happens to then be another layer of challenge. And then on top of it, social leap social media becomes another layer of challenge. And so recently I watched a reel of a mom who was redesigning her daughter's room for in their home. Yes, in their home. for her return to college and then or from college, I'm sorry. And then I saw that the video, the reel continued to show that she was greeting her daughter in the driveway. And then the daughter comes inside and she looks at her room and she's she's bought her all these little special treats and things. And it's a really cute video. And it's part of the algorithm now, like Mark said, that I get often because I'm one of those moms, parents that are, you know, sending our our oldest son to college now. And so I see a lot of them. And a lot of times it just becomes a little bit of white noise, but every now and then one comes up and it really is like it starts those intrusive thoughts, right? The what ifs, the well, what if, well, my gosh, am I? And and I really spiraled the other night and I had to talk to Mark about it, which is what spurred this episode because You know, that was her daughter. This is, you know, Miles is our son. So he he's an eighteen year old young man. He's kind of taken on the world and and shown some independence on on his own, which as his parents we can respect. and so perhaps it's different for for parents sending their sons versus sending their daughters. I I'm not sure our daughter hasn't gotten to that part that point yet. So we don't know. But but I wanna back up to the the the reel itself. Yeah so the Daughter is moving back into the house and the mom redid everything in the daughter's old bedroom to make it all great and wonderful. So here's our son that moved out of our house. Yes. And the and this is why the OCD happened. Like you're probably sitting there listening to this, going, Well, okay, that that was real, nothing big about that. Well, so everybody understands this past weekend, Stacy and I went and our our son has had a loft bed with a desk underneath it for several years. It was a great transition from middle school into high school bed and now he's off to college. It's not necessarily somebody that's eighteen, nineteen, twenty, you know, adulthood type of bed. It was more of a childhood bed. And it was one that I had built specifically for Miles to give him more floor space in his bedroom and so that he could do all his room for act his activities. Like he had his piano, his guitars and Did you just step brother reference us right there? You know, there's so much more room for activities. That's awesome. Yep. And it had a desk, so he had his computer and you know, all of that type of stuff. So this past weekend, we disassembled that. So here we are, we're disassembling our son's childhood bedroom. Now, again, with his permission, he had said even, I think I'm over this bed. I think if we could put something else in this room would be great. We are, we have all the plans for that to happen. But what really struck me in that moment was I had seen this reel where this mom had done for her daughter what she did. We took a very different approach with our son and his room. And all of a sudden I'm I'm a terrible mom. I'm the worst mom ever. my son's never never gonna want to come home again. He's gonna stop loving me now. He's gonna cut me off. He's never gonna want to speak to me again. I'm a terrible mom. How did I go from being a good? Okay, I think I've, yeah, I've shown the spiral that I went down. Now I've demonstrated it well enough because that's what happens. And those thoughts become so loud and so looping, the anxiety gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Until for me, what I need to do is do a ritualized conversation with myself, a mental compulsion, if you will, in order to talk myself down. Now I want everybody to know Stacy texted him and asked him, is it okay before we did it? Yes, I did. And he replied back, yes. Yes, absolutely. And then on top of it, he had to work on Saturday. He even stopped by in between when he had a break, and he saw his room empty without the bed and without all the stuff per se that we have gone through and cleaned his room. And he didn't say anything about it. He didn't give us any indication that he was upset. He didn't, you know, go storming off. He didn't say, I didn't I don't love you anymore. He didn't say I'm not moving back in this house ever again. All of those things that Stacy had made up in her mind, Miles never once did. And this is the crux of what obsessive compulsive disorder can often steal from us. Is rationality. Those certainly were irrational thoughts that I was having. They were just thoughts. I can leave them on the table. I can leave them in my head. I can leave them for face value for what they are. They don't have to mean anything. But my OCD says, no, no, no, they should mean something. Let's make them mean something. And so then it means I must be a terrible mom. Look at what this mom did. Look at what I've just done. I'm a horrible person. I'm a horrible mom. And you know, what what comes after that, which I've already indicated that and that's the spiral that leads to the compulsion. And I am I I and every time this happens to me, I I I really find it cathartic and and healing to share it with you all as our listeners as well, because I feel like I've come so far in this journey and I've made so much headway, so much progress, things that the way our we used to live our life, we have a very different way of our life now. And it is so exciting to to dive into that chapter of our life. And so when I do get caught in these moments, ooh, it irritates me to no end. me too. It irritates me too because I'm the check in person and I go, What the hell? That's the most ridiculous thought ever. Hey now. Let's not. Well, it's true. Let's not get hasty. The most ridiculous, I don't know. I think I've probably come up with something before. Like, yes, we've established. And and for me, as the persons that support you, I mean yeah, saying, Yeah, I'm not sure or no, he doesn't love you anymore, you know, just Just those things to bring you. And then there I am, sitting in discomfort, living in uncertainty. All of those things that OCD tells me is so dangerous, it's gonna kill me. And yet I sit there and go, Man, that was that is so ridiculous. And then I say, I don't know how to live in any any other brain. Like this is just how my brain operates. It's how it's always operated since I was 15 years old. And there and there's times that Stacy will ask me, like, don't you think about this stuff, you know, don't you, you know, doesn't it always replay replay in your head? And I'm like And he says no. No. And I go, how does that how does that work? Like I just think about something else and move on with my day. Like I I didn't think twice about taking down his bed and how he would actually feel about it. Because I know no I know that he did not want it up anymore. And he told you that. I've had to say so many things to myself in order to reconcile what that we have taken that bed down, even though we have every intention of putting something else in this room. We want him to come back. We want him to be feel like this is a safe space to be. No, maybe not permanently. We don't want him to Nor do I think he wants to be back here permanently. And and perhaps that's the difference between a a son and a daughter too. Again, I I don't know because our daughter hasn't gotten that far yet in her life. So we don't know the difference between letting a son go to college versus having our daughter go. What we know is that Miles is our oldest. And so he was our first. And so everything we're experiencing, we're experiencing for the first time right along with him. And then on top of it, we have the layer of obsessive compulsive disorder and a knowledge of what that is and the ERP to back up helping and and healing from it. And so it's just as if it were before we're we're diving into a new chapter with new challenges. And unfortunately then you you add that layer of social media onto it. Well that's yes. And that was what I wanted to talk about. Different reels or you know, and that was just one specific reel. Just one reel. And it was very sweet. I I I have no problem with it. It was it was very lovely. It was I enjoyed it. I watched it. It was, my gosh, how cute is that? It that was all it was. And then when did you when did you watch it? it was several days before we even took down his bed. And then all of a sudden it was like, well, wait a minute. Did I do that wrong? Did I do something wrong? Am I doing this wrong? I I can't tell you. And then the only people that can understand where I'm coming from is if you have an actual true diagnosis of O C D. And they can they'll feel my pain. And and and you as my spouse know what I've been through and how I op have operated in the past. And And I get so frustrated with myself now. I have no, I have no grace left. I want to, I'm trying to bring that back into my life, but I get very frustrated very easily when my OCD gets me. All the way up to even when we just before we started recording this, you know, every now and then you might hear our Australian Shepherd bark. And we've been recording in a different spot. Ew. And Stacy said, Well, Did we do this all for nothing when we could have been still in our other spot that we were recording, not in our house? This is more convenient for us. So every now and then, you know, the dog will bark or whatever, or you know, the the daughter will say something or Yeah. We're we're working our way towards being total professionals with this podcasting gig, but we're still You know, but we're we're doing it now out of his bedroom and because of because of better. We took down his bed. We took down his bed to turn it into our podcast studio. Yes, is what we did. But she even said, Well, we took down the bed and now we're gonna potentially move this stuff back to our, you know, original location. To your dad's house. Yeah. Where it's him and it's quiet and a little bit different. But it's a drive. It's a drive over there to go in and do it. And you know, he But I did. I got caught in my caught in my own self, going, my gosh, did we do is this wrong? Did we do this wrong? I can't tell you how many times in my lifetime since I was 15 years old have I asked myself, did I do this wrong? Am I wrong? Was this wrong? That word wrong comes up a lot. And I know I'm crossing over a couple different topics, I feel like, tonight, but it is something that came up with this whole idea of OCD and social media. Is social media can often lead you to want to do things the same way that these other that other individuals are doing it. And I think people who have OCD, and like for myself, which I've been very honest about too, having this feeling of needing things to be just right and have I done something wrong and always questioning that. I think social media adds another complication to the journey. I think I think typically I think typical people who don't have OCD are are often saying, Hey, I want to do it like this person did it, or look what she has, I want to have that. Or I mean, I think that's a big conversation we have around social media now. And so for someone who has OCD to see something on social media and it triggers me automatically thinking that I've done something wrong or I'm a horrible person. And then I have to I have to have some sort of compulsion in order to get past that. It's it becomes very complicated. It it's it's challenging on on my side. So w one of the ways I kind of try to counteract that is just by sending her a bunch of Australian Shepherd reels. my gosh, really? That's that's what you're gonna go with? Because you're not no, no, no, no, no. Let's not listen. We're not gonna go there because I cannot tell you how obsessed with our Australian Shepherd this man is. This was supposed to be our daughter's dog. Still is for the most part. However, he has attached to the dog. The dog has attached to Mark. I I can't tell you. I am his shepherd. He is obsessed with this dog. That is why he sends me reels of Australian Shepherds. Don't let him fool you. This has That has nothing to do with, I'm gonna support her O C D. No, sir. That is you are in love with this dog and want to continue to share with me everything that you love about him and and that the world loves about Australian shepherds. No, that's that's that's fake news. Don't no no. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. But there I mean You gotta be very careful with the social media side and judging I think everyone does. And judging and and but but your OCD, it brings it to another level. Mm-hmm. You know, like, or even, you know, you talk about like you don't want your future life to be uncertain. So you try to plan it out. Yeah. To the point to where, like, I see this house on on social media. This is the way I want our next house to look. Yeah. I want it to look exactly like this house. Yeah. Type of thing. No, I'm gonna stand by that one. Even if it's a multi million dollar house and it's well, you better get to work and then Yeah. You start writing your books. Yeah. That's well, you know. You know, it takes two to to make it happen sometimes. You know, when you work in education, not my space. But You know, that that that's the part you you're looking at that and you'll show me, well, I think we're on the same page about what type of house we want. Absolutely, we're on the same page. But you show me all the all of your your boards of different design styles and stuff like that. And it it for me as as the spouse with with that has somebody that has OCD, I do worry about when we go to start designing and building that house, that it might not. Hit the mark. Because of your OCD. Well, you better buckle up then buttercup, because we're gonna have a rocky road. Cause yeah, I can probably admit that I see that. That if it doesn't look just right or doesn't feel just right, I'm gonna it's gonna tick at me in a negative way. And you have a real hard time visualizing how something would look. Yes, I do have a hard time. I I the visual spatial stuff is and to be in the space and and see it when it's all put together. I love it. Sometimes I have a harder time going into an empty space and seeing how it would all kind of come together. Or blueprints. yeah. Something along those lines. I mean that's that's the part that I I worry about. Yes, I understand. When we move forward to to building the house and Well, I guess we'll just have to live uncertain, won't you? Yeah. Or you too. You know? No. You know, I think we can try to hit the mark as close as possible, but no house is gonna hit the mark a hundred percent. Well. Mine might hit the the most. Ours, let me say it that way. Ours might hit the mark the most because I'm gonna be so vigilant about it feeling just right. See? You've ever think about that, then maybe But what happens if that one piece does not feel just right? Ugh. Why you gotta say that out loud? Let's not put that in the universe. you know, change order in place. I mean that that's gonna cost more money and so on and so forth. Let's just I know. We're just gonna have to live uncertain together. It's a good thing we know a good architect and a good contractor. Yeah we do. So Hey shout out to my brother for that. Yeah. So hopefully we'll be able to get the, you know, we'll we'll family discount. yeah. We'll get some dealing with you. We'll get ouch. Okay, all right. But that that is an O C D tendency, I see though. Well, and again, it's social media, right? It's my Pinterest, it's my Instagram, it's my it's my everything that I focus in on so that I can feel certain about what's gonna happen in the future. Yeah. So social media, again, however you all feel, however everyone feels about social media, there are the Pros, there are the cons, pluses and minuses, et cetera, just like with everything else in life. And I think that looking at social media from the vantage point of someone who has OCD and how that can bring upon intrusive thoughts or bring about a trigger that brings on anxiety and the need for a compulsion is again a conversation that needs to be had and should be had and shared. And and and I will say this too. That social media piece it it brings on, you know, I I'm a I work with teenagers all day long. They are all about the I got this many likes and I got this many you know, views, or I got this many, you know, I have this many, this many, this many. It's it's a numbers game. It is completely feel good. Right. Which is again, I think harder for those of us who come from a different generation to sometimes wrap our brains around. Even though social media has been such a big part of all of our lives for so long. I think even for me, and I and there's a part of Instagram and a part of Pinterest and all these things. I don't I'm not on TikTok. All right. I'm younger than you. But, you know, it's fine. We won't mention it. But I I'm not on TikTok. I'm not necessarily wasn't ever on Facebook. So I don't do a lot of social media, but I like what I do have. And I think that there is a a a place for it and I and as a forty eight year old woman I I I like it. I also know what my world was like when I didn't have it. And so what did you do before your world? Without it. Well, what did you do in your world before? You're older than I am. But with your Yes, I played Atari. Okay. I played I had the the three-stack C D player and got my new CDs that I would buy for one song. Shout out to all you Gen Xers out there. I mean, this is a big conversation too. I got a new C D for one song, and I thought I was the The bees' knees, if you will. That's even a shout out to an older generation. When I had this this brand new stereo with the three stack CD player in it. And I would listen to my music. Music was huge for me when I was younger and before social media. Magazines. I I'm I'm an old school magazine reader. Or when you were driving in your car and you used to put the CDs in the cassette thing where you held like six CDs and you put it in and it would read. You six C. Yeah. Yeah. See, we we did know what we did back then. Versus all of the way you And so now you see these young kids who make social media, yes, a numbers game. For our generation too, it's a numbers game because there's a certain element of it meant for our generation as well. But with within your O C D though, yeah, how did you see it when you were younger? versus now, like you're comparing yourself to you know, a lady that did her room for her daughter to where we destroyed our son's room. Well, I guess for our own selfish needs. Hey, shout out to him too. He's enjoying his freshman year of college so far. And living his best life down there on campus. And he will be happy to just have a safe space to come back to at some point. How okay. I think Does he or do you want him to have the safe place to come home to? Duh. I mean, hello. I mean, I know that I know it's my son to come back and live under my roof again and I can give him a little bed and his little snacks and his little but he's an 18-year-old young man and I know that the only reason why he's going to because the dorms closed down over the summertime. Correct. Yes, I agree. So we'll we'll he'll be back around and it'll be fine. I think as a younger person before social media, I would get triggered in a very similar way. It just wasn't because of a reel I watched, but it would be in a similar way I get triggered sometimes now, which is if I had a conversation with someone and I didn't feel like it I left it just right, I would have to check back in with them. Or I would feel like I would have these conversations with myself, saying I would well, at first I would replay the conversation and then replay it again. And then just for good measure, probably a third time. And then I would say, Did I say something wrong? Did I do something wrong? It's that whole idea of have I done something wrong that's the theme that keeps coming up. So I would be triggered then. But it was just more in person because that's what life was like more back then. Now it's a Instagram reel that makes me feel like, huh, am I doing something wrong here? Like it's so your O C D is kind of morphed. A little. Although if I have a I mean, you know me, wow, we are really, really going hard on the age thing tonight. man. Well, we're entering a new chapter of our life, and so it's best to laugh about it rather than cry, I suppose. it I I guess there are more opportunities for me to get triggered now because of social media versus before. Because I'll still get triggered by a conversation. Text message, email, I'll send follow-up emails, I'll send follow-up text messages. Y'all know my emoji usage was out of control because that's how I felt like I left conversations feeling just right. What if I said that wrong? What if she's angry with me? What if she never wants to speak to me again? What are you talking about? Is what your text messages were sometimes it felt like. yeah. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. And now I don't use them much. And now when other people that I know use them, and it just it's a real irritation to me because that's one way where I have made some nice progress is that I have started to mine my CCQs, which is to keep those text messages clear, concise, and quick. And I've gotten used to that and I've exposed myself enough to that where that is my new norm. That doesn't feel as uncomfortable anymore. So you've rewired your brain. Correct. For that one. Cor yes, in in in lots of vastly different ways. I mean, because as you all know, there has been a hierarchy for me which I have attacked and and tackled one fear, one moment at a time. But the one that continues to plague you per se is your mental Ruminations. It does. And it's the just right. It's the the just right one. Ooh, the just right one gets me. If I feel like I've said anything, I just did it with with my sister-in-law on a text message thread that she and I had the other day going back and forth. Completely innocent, completely friendly, completely happy. If she listens to this episode, she can be completely shocked that I even felt this way. But for some reason I had just felt like I had left something that didn't feel just right. And it took everything I had not to text her again or follow up with, you know, 3,000 emojis just to make sure that we were okay and that I hadn't done something wrong. Now I know I hadn't done anything wrong. She didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything wrong, but I still got caught in my head because there was just something about that text thread that didn't feel just right. And it's hard because I can't sometimes put my finger on it. And that's the other thing, like texting. Like I would never get triggered in the 90s because there was no texting back then. Yep. So I didn't get triggered by that. I would get triggered by a conversation. Yes. I would get triggered by, you know, interactions with people, yes. But then Again, wow, see this is like such a big conversation. Were the letters you would send? Okay. All right. Can that be the last one tonight now? I do like it though. I do take it. It's funny. yes. Or and I did send old school letters and old school notes. I mean, that's what we did back then. and she never got a reply. yeah. That would really send me the spiral. Sometimes now, like, and and again, it's easier to get triggered now because we have email and we have text messages and direct messages now in in social media. And if someone leaves me on done on message for a while, sometimes that'll be the way it gets me. If if like I if I send a text message, but then they don't send me a reply, in even if it's just a few minutes, like I can feel my anxiety creeping up, thinking, my gosh, I said something wrong. my God, she hates me. I'm pretty sure that's what triggered me with our sister in law the other day was it it sh she didn't reply for a few minutes. And then in my head I was like, my God, she hates me. Well you've done that with With even Miles though too. Like it's so irrational and it's so silly. He hasn't texted me back yet. So and he must be dead in his dorm. Yep. Yeah. And then you're like, should we call him? Let's call him. I think I'm gonna call him. You think he's okay? He's okay, right? Yeah. I'm sure he's okay. I I can come I could write a book on the ways that I have checked in with people and and the ways that I have tried to slide it in on the slyest of the sly. Maybe you should make a desk calendar. Ooh, that's not a bad idea. Living uncertain much coming your way soon. Three hundred and sixty-five ways to to check in. check in. This could be really good. We have no idea the the ends of what where we could take this. Because again, I'm a big proponent. If you're not laughing, you're crying. And O C D is shitty and challenging enough as it is that it bears to reason why we would want to find a little humor in it at least. Yeah. Hundred percent. Okay. So thank you again, everyone, for listening for Living Uncertain with us. If you wanna come on our show, please send us an email or you know, fill out the interest form. We'd be more than happy to have you on the show. Absolutely. And share your story or, you know, if you have a practice and you wanna share, you know, just your experiences as a clinician or whatever way, you know, please we we just wanna build the community. of support and healing. So thank you for listening. We're all about. Until next time, y'all. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.