Latest / Found in Interpretation Podcast / Ep. - 36: Doris Pingi - Unpacking Premium Location Bias in Interpretation

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Ep. - 36: Doris Pingi - Unpacking Premium Location Bias in Interpretation · Found in Interpretation Podcast

0:00
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Found an
0:02
interpretation podcast. Once again, I'm one of your Co
0:05
hosts on Ibotta and I'm here at Brian.
0:06
Brian, how you doing? I'm doing great.
0:08
I'm doing great. And we have Doris with us.
0:11
She has a lot of energy. How you doing, Doris?
0:13
I'm just fine with you lots. Finally.
0:16
Well, alright, let's kick it. OK, so let's take a look at
0:32
Doris's journey. Yes, OK.
0:35
It's a huge bio mate. She's a seasoned linguist with
0:39
whose journey spans 5 active languages.
0:42
And that am I right? Yes, yes.
0:44
And from early beginnings in public speaking and academic
0:48
translation to getting fired by Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz after
0:53
a start with cat tools or restore stories 1 of resilience,
0:59
facing the challenges of AI description in 2023 and
1:03
navigating life as a professional and she emerged as
1:08
a leading voice in remote public service interpreting.
1:11
And actually, I'll be totally transparent here.
1:14
Doris reached out on LinkedIn because she wanted to talk to us
1:21
about something that I had never heard before, which is called
1:24
premium location bias. What's premium location bias?
1:29
OK, pretty much like that. Something that well actually I
1:33
didn't coin the term. I saw post by N Macedonian girl,
1:39
she works in marketing and she wrote a post writing about
1:43
premier location bias that she switched her LinkedIn location
1:47
from time to time to noble countries such as the US, UK, to
1:52
Lily and she saw lots of changes.
1:56
Won't forget Canada, Don't forget Canada.
1:58
Yeah, Canada as well, of course. The, of course, the nice cousin.
2:01
Yeah, awesome. So she wrote that she changed
2:07
her LinkedIn location from time to time.
2:09
And she said that her leads and her views and her job offers,
2:14
they change it drastically because of her location on
2:18
LinkedIn. And then when people finally
2:21
found out she was from North Macedonia, they would drop her
2:25
job offers drastically because, oh, come on, you live in a low
2:28
income country. It's not even a country itself.
2:31
Something like drop the offers or the amount for the offer.
2:35
The amount for the offer, yes. The money they would pay for the
2:38
same job, the same exact job. They had offered her like $5000.
2:43
They would offer her $1000 because you know, you're based
2:46
in North Macedonia and stuff like that.
2:48
And then I saw that and then I said this is what's happening in
2:52
the language industry with translators and interpreters
2:56
especially because nowadays it's all virtual is all remote jobs.
2:59
Yes, so. But the remote job in
3:02
translation dates for a much more much longer an
3:05
interpretation. So yeah, was this premium
3:08
location bias running for a long time?
3:11
Yeah. And when I was a translator as
3:13
well, and I worked remotely for like over 25 years, it also
3:18
happened when I said I lived in Brazil and based in Brazil.
3:22
They would just do this stupid math that for instance if it's a
3:26
US agency that works in dollars, I think the dollar today is 6
3:31
Rios $1.00 if I'm not mistaken. Because you're located in
3:34
Brazil, right? Yes yes so they would do this
3:37
bloody ludicrous math. So since she's located in Brazil
3:41
and 1 Rio equals $6, she I can offer her $1.00.
3:47
You know I can offer her like instead of offering her like
3:50
$200 for this piece of translation, I'll offer her
3:54
$20.00 because our currency is much higher than hers so she can
3:59
live off bread crumbs. You know, they don't think
4:01
inflation, they don't think life quality, they don't think like
4:04
they disregard your CV, your experience or expertise,
4:08
everything. Yeah.
4:09
And this is also happening a lot now that I'm, I'm an
4:12
interpreter, full time interpreter.
4:14
This is happening a lot with remote interpreters.
4:16
You know, especially the ones who live in very, very low
4:20
income countries, such as in Asian countries, African
4:23
countries, Middle Eastern countries, that if you compare
4:27
$1.00 to their currency, it's like 20,000.
4:31
Yeah, it's peanuts. Yeah.
4:32
Yeah, so, but so we just have to use a VPN when we're using.
4:37
LinkedIn, Norek. Actually, I do use a VPN for
4:42
other purposes, but I do that from time to time.
4:45
I change my location on LinkedIn from time to time to really test
4:48
the premium location bias and like people who reach me for
4:52
jobs. For instance, now my location is
4:54
in Trieste, Italia. So yeah, I lived there for a
4:59
while. It's amazing.
5:00
It's near Venice, It's really amazing.
5:02
You should visit. So now it's in Trieste, Italy
5:06
and I received job offers, more job offers from Europe because I
5:10
put my location as Trieste, Italy.
5:13
And the job offers, they usually come at a very high rate of fee.
5:19
Yes. But when I start the ongoing
5:21
process with the agencies or the, the clients, and then I
5:25
have to fill out those forms, you know, with my address, Cetra
5:30
proof of address and so on. And they say, oh, but you're
5:33
based in Brazil, you're not based in Italy.
5:35
No, I just put on LinkedIn and based in Italy or in the UK or
5:39
in France or Afghanistan whatsoever, you know, Oht but
5:43
then we have to retract the offer because since you live in
5:46
Brazil, your country has a much lower income.
5:49
So this first negotiation we started does not apply.
5:53
Regardless of the citizenship. Regardless of the citizenship,
5:56
it's not about citizenship. No, but let's say move to Brazil
5:59
and I'm in the French Canadian market.
6:01
I would not think that they should lower my rates.
6:07
I mean according to my location, right?
6:09
It's about who you are, your expertise, and you know the
6:13
specific offer that you can. Give yes, my passport does not
6:16
define my value. Yes, my location does not define
6:20
my worth, you know, so it's basically that.
6:24
But because you have a French Canadian passport, even if you
6:28
you have based in Brazil or Afghanistan whatsoever, they
6:32
will praise your passport because you come from a premium
6:35
location. I see.
6:37
So but there's some kind of like algorithm in the background
6:40
where like if you're saying like they sent an offer and it's like
6:44
an international offer, then like if someone replies from the
6:48
United States, it'll be a different rate than someone who
6:50
replies from China or an African country or a South American
6:54
country. Like it's they're going to try
6:56
to find the lowest rate, I guess.
6:59
But then I guess the client still pays the same amount.
7:02
But they already have that as preset, you know, in there with
7:07
their recruiters. You know, it's like this person
7:09
lives in Argentina. So the top rate we can get is
7:13
this if they ask for more, no, you know they will always try to
7:17
get you lower yes, because that's the business yes, the the
7:21
shark the. Shark remember prosy pros PRZ.
7:26
Pros Pros. Remember when I when I first
7:29
started doing translation interpretation, that was out and
7:32
and it was always like, let's look at who the lowest bidder
7:35
will be and that's who gets the contract and it.
7:37
Was lower than. Low and it was like 0.0004 cents
7:41
per word or something like that yeah So yeah, I.
7:45
Got those, I got those and then I replied it was 0.001 put not
7:52
repeated word and it was empty. P for no repeated wording was MP
7:58
for social media stuff you know. And then I replied to the
8:01
recruiter, I think you missed a 0 or you put one more zero
8:06
there. You know you.
8:07
Miss Yeah, No, you missed the the the.
8:09
Doctor. Yeah.
8:11
You missed the dot. Yeah.
8:13
And then he said no, no, no. You're based in Brazil.
8:15
This is just fine for you. Wow.
8:18
And I was like, OK. So so from what I understand,
8:22
when you change your VPN the rate changes.
8:24
Is yeah, it's not only the VPN, because if you're just change on
8:28
your LinkedIn profile, your location, just that I think some
8:32
recruiters, some agencies, they're not as smart enough to
8:35
use this sort of advanced algorithm that we really check
8:39
your real location. They will just say oh this
8:41
person is based there because they will use the search
8:44
filters. I just checked I'm Quebec City
8:46
in Canada I'm safe. I didn't notice like, no, I just
8:49
went to check right now my LinkedIn profile, it's like
8:52
Amber. Yeah, see, I was like everyone
8:57
who's watching, go check your location.
8:59
Change. So now my VPN sets in Romania,
9:04
I'm in Bucharest. You just said it right now.
9:06
No, it's like it's always on. So everyday changes, you know,
9:10
it goes to random locations, yeah.
9:13
There's like a software that does that for you or?
9:15
Proton Proton VPN. I have proton as well.
9:18
OK, I don't know what proton is so.
9:20
We're not sponsors for Proton, but it's one of the best.
9:24
Yeah, yeah. And I learned it from Kit Boga.
9:27
You must know Kit Boga, right? There's there's there like
9:29
slogan, like if you. Want to use this camera of this
9:31
chemist? Proton.
9:33
Kit Boga. Kit Boga.
9:34
Who's that? Kit Boga.
9:36
He's a YouTuber and he's the scammer of this scammers.
9:39
So he scams those people who call you, who call the elderly
9:44
is generally to scam them on buying stuff.
9:48
And then I gave you some, I gave you more money back than I
9:52
should buy me a gift card, you know, and give me the money
9:55
back. So he's comes.
9:57
This is scammers, this over the phone scammers, you know?
10:00
OK. Wow.
10:01
And then they tried to RIP him off.
10:03
He's amazing. Kit Boga, he's just amazing.
10:06
I just found him kid Bogo. OK, but.
10:09
So. So yeah, Beck.
10:10
But let me ask you a question before we digress.
10:13
Have you faced any serious intimidation or consequences for
10:17
exposing this? Because you're exposing
10:20
something that you know is quite actually serious and not many
10:24
people realise. Yes, I used to name names at
10:27
first, you know I would get because it was like this.
10:31
I applied for the same position with the same agency, using
10:36
different locations, but with the same my same name, my same
10:41
CV. Yeah, I was gonna ask.
10:42
Yeah, same name. They're so they're so such
10:45
retard, you know, because I use my name, my real name that is
10:49
not my public name. Yeah, I use my real name, my
10:53
real credentials, my real CV. I only changed my location on my
10:57
CV. Just that, you know, based in
11:00
US, based in the UK, based in Germany.
11:04
And then because they work with lots of recruiters, you know,
11:07
lots of recruiters. So I think when you spray away
11:11
your CV to an agency, they go to different recruiters and these
11:16
recruiters, they do not talk to each other.
11:18
Yeah, I've noticed. Yeah.
11:20
So then I got contacted by 5 different recruiters.
11:25
Oh wow. Dizzy, it was a US agency from
11:31
the same agency and then one offered me like X because I I
11:37
said I was based in Germany. The other one offered me two
11:43
eggs because I said I was based in the UK.
11:45
The other offered me three eggs. Am I doing this?
11:48
Is it, is it am I doing math right?
11:50
Because I've got this Cocolia. Yeah, you correct me because
11:54
I'm. No, no, no.
11:55
I'm so far so good. Yeah, you're doing great.
11:57
You didn't mentioning number, you're just mentioned the X's.
11:59
Yeah, But then 3X is like more than X and then 2X, right?
12:03
Yeah. OK, OK.
12:04
Yeah. So and then when I said it was
12:06
based in the US, that is the most premium location there is,
12:10
that is Ferrari in the language industry.
12:13
They offered my like 5X, you know, and then I said, oh, cool.
12:18
And then the last one, I said I was really based in Brazil.
12:21
He offered me X -, 1. So everyone set up a bank
12:26
account in the US, Yeah. And we have to check on a
12:30
further podcast, which US state. Keep logo will teach you all
12:34
that. Go to Kit Boga, he teaches you
12:36
all that we can create a fake location whatsoever.
12:40
Have you tried Asian countries yet?
12:42
No, no, they're huge. No, no, they're huge.
12:44
No, no, unfortunately they are huge.
12:46
No, no, S4 means latest and interpreters.
12:50
I'm sorry to say that it might sound prejudice and racist and
12:56
xenophobic whatsoever. The thing is, from my experience
12:59
and I see a lot of posts from people getting scammed by
13:03
African, Middle Eastern and some African, some Middle Eastern and
13:07
some Asia Asian agencies. They do not get paid or they lie
13:13
on their location. You know, they say they're based
13:15
in the US or Europe because they know they have a bad name in the
13:19
industry. And then people just go, you
13:22
know, and accept their offers. They give away their sensitive
13:25
data and they are just cashing in.
13:28
There's just stealing. This is like CVS stealing.
13:31
Like people would just steal your data and use your CV for
13:34
tenders, you know, So they will show a top tier interpreter,
13:39
translator CV to the end client and say, look, this is the one
13:43
we're hiring. They say OK they give the go,
13:46
but then they will go there and they will hire a nobody and will
13:50
pay them 110th of what they would pay.
13:53
This top tier interpreter translated they showed to the
13:57
end client. Or like machine like and then
14:00
they pay no money. So like our names?
14:02
Solutely. Yeah, cause you know what, now
14:04
come to think of it, like I do get like a request from like
14:08
companies in China or India that are like, ohe come work for us
14:11
and stuff. And it says India and China.
14:13
So I automatically delete. But I'm assuming there are some
14:16
people who don't automatically delete.
14:18
Because they come usually to new visit.
14:20
Happened to me when I was a newbie.
14:21
You know, because I came from academic translation.
14:24
It's a completely different universe.
14:25
Another bubble. I had direct clients that
14:28
happened to be my students, No, in translation and in language
14:31
speaking, in public speaking, you know, and they were from,
14:35
from the academia, you know, like a masters and doctorate
14:39
PHD's and they would, I would work exclusively on academic
14:42
translation. So I had direct clients.
14:44
I had, I didn't have this problem.
14:45
So I said, I want to switch to commercial translation.
14:49
I want to work with the world. And then there was a newbie and
14:52
I started getting these offers, amazing offers like, oh, we're
14:56
going to pay you like, I don't know, dollar per ward, you know,
14:59
stuff like that. Because in academic translation,
15:02
the rates and fees are really high, especially if you have
15:05
direct clients, you know, you, you make your price, you make a
15:09
rate. So I said, OK, this is good.
15:11
And then I applied. But The thing is that I have red
15:14
flags. So they usually come and they
15:17
give you like, you know, the, the on a silver plate, the, the
15:20
golden off and on the diamond off and on a silver plate, you
15:23
know, and then you just go because you're just desperate to
15:26
know your newbie want to get experience, you wanna get paid,
15:29
like to make ends meet. And then you just reply
15:32
immediately, immediately reply with your CV and your
15:36
certifications and your diplomas, everything they just
15:40
cost you because they just steal your credentials and they use
15:44
for tenders. Now in the world of
15:46
interpretation, can you give like a concrete example of that?
15:49
Yeah, it happens a lot as well. I get lots of offers from.
15:52
Usually it's like this because since I'm really solid on
15:56
LinkedIn for quite a while, I get offers directing my DM's,
16:01
yes, but usually they come to my e-mail and my e-mail is not
16:06
visible on LinkedIn, you know, only for my first degree
16:09
connections. I think it's the, the most, the,
16:12
the, the, the most basic setting you can have to, to hide your
16:16
personal data on LinkedIn. And then sometimes I get these
16:20
emails, you know, like Dorism, we would like to hire you for
16:23
this position, like a conference interpreter or PSI, you know,
16:27
remote PSI. And then this, this, these are
16:30
the, this is the description of the job Tetra.
16:33
And I got one that was supposed to be from the King's Hospital
16:38
in London. It was an in person position to
16:41
be a PSI medical and public service interpreter.
16:45
And it was like my huge dream, you know, like, come on, working
16:48
person in London for the King's Hospital.
16:50
I work with them over the phone all the time, you know, And this
16:53
person, she was so smart that she even was able to fake an
16:58
official, a corporate King's Hospital e-mail address.
17:03
But then I talked to to a friend of mine who actually is in the
17:08
UK and already worked for King's Hospital and he said, look, this
17:11
offer is not on their official Web page, is not on King's
17:14
Hospital official Web page. So this is a scam.
17:17
They steal your information and then they're using tenders to
17:21
hire much cheaper interpreters or translators using your top
17:26
tier CV. So the end client will never
17:30
know they're hiring and nobody, I think they're hiring you, me,
17:35
you know, they never know, they never, they never reach, they,
17:38
they never care. You know, they are the end
17:39
client. That's why they they hire
17:41
intermediaries, you know, they hire agencies because they don't
17:44
want to have the trouble, you know, and I was just like
17:47
shocked, you know, I said, I've been warning people about the
17:50
red flag, like check the e-mail address, you know, like check
17:54
the person, like go to the website, you know, and but it
17:58
came on a silver plate, you know, and was just blowing.
18:02
It was too good to be true, basically.
18:04
And when it's too good to be true.
18:05
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, true enough.
18:07
Yeah, true enough. You're right.
18:09
Wow, this is like a it really opens my eyes to like how
18:16
perverse this like especially like in in the world of online
18:20
interpretation. Like with AI, you can do
18:22
anything I've seen. So these agents is going back to
18:25
that topic. These agencies I was exposing, I
18:28
was naming names. They were faking their location,
18:31
they were faking their phone numbers.
18:33
Because nowadays you have a VoIP system, so you can buy a US
18:38
number, you can buy UK number at Germany number, you can buy it
18:42
from Brazil, from Africa, from Asia.
18:45
So they fake the locations, they fake, they create fake images
18:50
with AI for Google Maps to show they have at this huge building
18:56
in California whatsoever. And then these newbies, they go
19:01
check and they say, oh, looks legit.
19:04
And then they apply, they send their data or they even start
19:07
working. But it's like usually nowadays
19:09
PSI, and I'm talking like not only these agencies, lots of US
19:14
agencies, they're paying for PSI's usually raised in low
19:17
income countries from 4 to $7.00 an hour on a fixed shift with
19:24
non paid breaks. And then you have to stay online
19:28
on demand for 9 to 12 hours. And you cannot reject a single
19:34
call. If you reject a single call,
19:36
there will be micromanagement coming on you.
19:39
So this is a kind of interpret because this is a kind of
19:42
interpretation over the phone, right?
19:44
Yes, that's what in in US called OPI.
19:47
OK. So, and then just for just for
19:50
our listeners here, because we all know about it, can you
19:54
explain this? Can you explain the setup for
19:58
the interpreter and what this is?
20:00
OK. So basically OPI or medical and
20:03
public service interpreting that is over the phone in the UK that
20:06
is my main market, the it's called PSI that is just public
20:10
service interpreting but it's remote.
20:11
Yes, we work over the phone and video, OK.
20:15
And it, it works like an operator system because you have
20:19
to merging calls, you have to dial out dial-in, remove people
20:24
from the call, etcetera. You know, so you must have the
20:27
most basic tech savvy skills because you need to be an
20:30
operator, you need to troubleshoot IT problems like
20:34
connection or whatsoever that can happen in a platform, you
20:37
know. Who needs interpretation here?
20:39
OK, so the providers are usually public service offices.
20:43
For instance, in the UK I work directly with the UK government.
20:48
So I work for the Home Office, I work for the Department of Work
20:51
and Pensions, I work for the NHS.
20:54
That is the public health system.
20:56
Yes. So I work with immigration, I
20:59
work with airports, I work with prisons, I work with, with
21:02
police stations. Do you know the TV show called
21:05
Airport? There is a reality show, It's a
21:07
reality show called Airport. So they, they shoot the reality
21:11
in all airports all over the world.
21:13
You know, I've been there. I've been there in Heathrow
21:16
Airport edition. I was interpreting and it was so
21:19
funny. But this story, it was like a
21:21
girl from Amazonas, the north of Brazil.
21:24
She was carrying what we call a mule.
21:27
She was carrying a kilo of cocaine in her bowels.
21:32
Yes, to traffic to the UK, but they stopped her in the
21:36
immigration. Yeah, yeah.
21:38
In her boss. They swallow little bags,
21:41
plastic bags with with cocaine inside.
21:44
They swallow like 50 of these bags.
21:46
I hope it does. 80 100 yeah, sometimes it does and it kills
21:50
you instantly. So they swallow this little
21:54
bags, little bow bags of plastic and they swallow it with cocaine
21:59
and then they travel to to this route, yes, for drug
22:04
trafficking. And then she was stopped by the
22:06
immigration right when she landed, You know, when she got
22:09
off the plane, she was stopped. How did they know?
22:12
They have some sort of techniques, you know,
22:16
psychological techniques like reading body language, you know,
22:20
or also checking the passport, checking the route, you know,
22:24
this is a suspicious route. She's coming from Amazonas that
22:27
is border for cocaine and stuff with Central America, etcetera.
22:31
So they have all these, all these statics and then.
22:34
You know there's a beautiful movie about that called Maria,
22:36
Full of Grace. Yes, yes, exactly.
22:39
That is exactly that what happened to her.
22:41
It happens to lots of women, unfortunately, Yeah.
22:43
And then they, they bared her at at right when she landed.
22:47
Yeah. And then she was taken to what
22:49
they call the waiting room. There's the waiting room because
22:51
then they start to back up, background check on the person,
22:54
and then they stay on the waiting room.
22:55
And then she was called and there's lots of steps I come in
22:59
interpreting for them because she spoke Portuguese, she didn't
23:02
speak English. Sorry, but in person or
23:03
remotely? Over the phone.
23:05
Over the phone. OK.
23:06
Alright, alright. Beforehand, do you know what
23:10
you're getting yourself in? No, it's a kinder.
23:12
So it's a complete. Surprise, it's a Kinder Egg and
23:14
I go and I switch code from one language to another.
23:17
Yes, I switch. I could switch from one language
23:20
to another because one call comes in in Portuguese, the next
23:23
one in French, the next one in in Thailand, the next one is
23:26
Spanish and I have to code switch all the.
23:28
Time so you get into that call and and do you get to see this
23:33
girl from. No, no.
23:35
No, it's all over the. Phone all over the phone.
23:37
We are blindfolded. The phone.
23:38
Yeah. It's playing the process.
23:41
How do you realize what's going on?
23:43
So because it's usually like that, they say we are calling
23:46
from the immigration airport. This is a Luton airport
23:51
immigration, OK. We have a passenger here that is
23:54
in the holding room, is in the holding area, and she's gonna go
23:58
through the immigration interview because we suspect
24:02
she's not here for the purposes she's mentioning.
24:06
And then they call me in. I have to introduce myself
24:08
because it's all over the phone. So there is a protocol follow
24:11
like hello, this is the in the case, this is the Portuguese
24:14
interpreter speaking, my pin number is 1234 and I'll be your
24:18
Portuguese interpreter. And then they will tell me, oh,
24:21
we are here with Maria whatsoever and introduce
24:24
yourself to her. Make sure she understands your
24:26
dialect because we have Brazilian Portuguese, European
24:29
Portuguese, African Portuguese and Asian Portuguese.
24:32
Yeah, we have 4 variants of Portuguese and sometimes they
24:36
don't understand each other. For instance, I can't understand
24:38
the European Portuguese at all, or Asian Portuguese.
24:42
I can't. I just do Brazilian and African.
24:44
So I talked to her. She was Brazilian.
24:46
So yeah, OK, understands me. And then they started
24:49
questioning the person, you know, like, why are you here?
24:52
I'm here to visit. And usually they, they do not
24:55
have a script, you know, because they got very little money in
24:59
Brazil to be the mule. Like I remember that this 1K she
25:03
had in her bowels was equivalent to £2 billion and she was only
25:08
paid like $100. Carry it in her body because she
25:12
said have a small children. I have debt to pay, you know, I
25:15
have to make ends meet. So the money she was gonna get
25:18
would be good for like 3 months in Brazil for her, you know.
25:22
And then why are you here? Oh, I'm here to visit.
25:24
What monuments you want to visit?
25:26
All that big wheel, that castle with a garden and that huge
25:32
clock with guards and they're like OK, who paid for your
25:36
ticket? It was a friend.
25:38
A friend From where? A friend from here.
25:41
Where did you meet? Oh, we met online.
25:43
Is it a friend? Real friend?
25:45
Oht. No, actually, we have a thing.
25:47
You know what's what's your friend's name?
25:50
I don't know. Oh no.
25:52
So after the 5th question, everything crumbles.
25:55
Yes, No, actually at the first already you know.
25:58
Oops. Usually when when the person,
26:04
when the suspect is real actor, they go up to four interviews
26:09
and I take all of them because they call me for the 1st and
26:12
they get my pin number and they call me back because they say,
26:15
Doris, you have been the first. So you go on.
26:18
So there was this lad from, I don't know, from some Latin
26:22
American country and he was so smart, so smart.
26:26
And because The thing is with these interviews, what happens?
26:29
They ask you the exact same questions but in different ways
26:33
to see if they catch you on the lie, you know.
26:36
So it's really nerve wracking. And I also had to study this,
26:40
not body language techniques because I don't see them, but
26:43
like the tone, you know, the pauses, the way they breathe in
26:48
and breathe out, the the rhythm of their hearts.
26:51
You know, it's all a tell. It's all tell.
26:53
Everybody feels nervous in those situations.
26:55
Even I don't have nothing to fear.
26:57
Maybe my heart rate could. Go up this guy who was not
26:59
nervous at all. He was a real actor.
27:02
And he was there. He was not sweating.
27:04
He was not stuttering, and he was smiling.
27:07
And he was like, even flirting with this interpreter, you know,
27:11
in Spanish. And I have to go verbatim
27:13
because it goes to their records in English.
27:16
Yes, I had to go. He was so cool.
27:18
You're Brazilian. You must be so hot.
27:20
And then immigration officer was like, what was that?
27:23
And I said, Sir, I'm just interpreting the word verbatim.
27:27
It was really, this is so inappropriate.
27:29
Ohhh, amazing. It's inappropriate, like going
27:33
back and forth, you know, because I have to, I have to
27:35
convey the tone as well, you know?
27:37
So it was already his fourth interview.
27:40
And I was in doubt because usually I take about 30 of these
27:43
calls a day from people from 1:00.
27:45
Location right? It's all recorded from their
27:48
end, not mine from the end. It's all recorded.
27:50
They video record the interview, they audio record, but I from my
27:55
end, nothing is recorded because it's all over the phone.
27:57
So we were already in the fourth interview and before we got into
28:00
the interview, before they they called this Laden, they said,
28:03
Doris, you have no idea. He's dead lot the champion of
28:07
the Champions. He's here for the 4th interview
28:09
is like never seen before. I said, really, mate, let's go.
28:13
Let's see if this guys really lie of his xeno scent, you know,
28:17
and then in the middle of the call, I started getting biased.
28:21
And when you were medical and public service interpreter,
28:24
humanitarian interpreter whatsoever, the first thing is
28:27
101 you cannot be biased. You know, you can never be
28:30
biased because you may I I always say we are this couple on
28:35
the hands of a surgeon. We are the gavel on the hands of
28:38
a judge. So if I mistake bladder for
28:42
gallbladder like your person? Yeah.
28:44
Yes. If I am biased in my tone, I may
28:47
send an innocent to prison or even back to his war zone
28:51
country. He's asking asylum.
28:54
He's claiming for asylum. You know, from.
28:56
Yeah, so I. Started to be sort of an
28:58
actress. Yes, you have to be really like
29:01
on and you have to like put everything away and out of you,
29:07
you know. And then I started getting
29:09
biased because it was already the fourth interview and he was
29:12
so like sleek and even mischievous, you know, and like
29:19
sarcastic. And I started getting biased and
29:23
my tone, I, I felt it in my tone.
29:25
I was being biased in my tone when he was replying to the
29:29
questions. Do you think he was
29:30
manipulating? You, I think he was trying to
29:32
manipulate everybody. Everyone.
29:34
Yeah. Everybody in the room.
29:36
And then I, I, I, I I paid attention to my voice and I said
29:40
I'm being biased. And then I said, this is the
29:42
interpreter speaking permission to intervene.
29:45
I need to excuse myself from this call right now because I'm
29:47
feeling biased. And he said Hodor is lost.
29:50
Come on, come on, you're here. You're the best.
29:52
No, come on. This is the fourth one to be the
29:54
last one. You can't give up right now.
29:56
Like, come on, just five more minutes.
29:58
I said sorry Sir, I'm feeling biased and I can no longer be
30:02
here because I may be sending an innocent to prison.
30:05
What whatsoever. And they said no, ask him if he
30:08
thinks you're being biased. Then I said oh Jesus Lord.
30:11
And then I asked him, Senior princeska stoic Castleton algo
30:15
Contra senor and esta jamara ke mitoni Toro.
30:21
Because Maravi, yours is let me hold interpreter Steelers
30:26
gimmick. I've been Saddam.
30:29
Yes, I thought to myself, so this is a Spanish people won't
30:31
know. I said I cursing words.
30:33
That's OK. And then I went back to to the
30:36
office and he said no, He says I'm the best interpreter.
30:39
You're the best interpreter I've ever heard.
30:41
You're not being biased against me, not at all.
30:43
And then I asked the opposite, Sir, do you feel from your your
30:47
capacities and your knowledge that I'm being biased against or
30:50
for anybody in this room? No, not at all.
30:53
Please move on. Please move on, please move on.
30:55
But I was not comfortable with myself.
30:57
I said I'm feeling biased and that's just enough, you know,
31:00
it's like code of ethics. Have that time you're you're not
31:03
only you're more than just an interpreter, you are an active
31:06
player in this situation. Yes, we are PSI.
31:10
Yes, but medical and public service interpreters, we are
31:12
interpreters, we are mediators, we are advocates.
31:16
Yes, we are the the ruler of the situation.
31:20
You know like imagine a parent tutors and advisors meeting.
31:26
You have 20 people in the room. Like you have 3 tutors,
31:30
directors, like principals from the school, vice principals, you
31:34
have psychologists, you have psychiatrists, you have the
31:38
parents and you have the children because this usually
31:40
happens when the children have some mental issues, you know,
31:44
psychiatric issues, they're not behaving or they hit someone or
31:48
they cut off someone's head, something like that.
31:50
So they need to summon this huge like inquisition on the
31:57
children, you know, So I'm on the phone sometimes one parent,
32:01
they are divorced, one parent is on, on a Zoom video from 1
32:05
laptop. The mother is from another
32:08
laptop. And there are all the people
32:10
from the school altogether in the same room with these two
32:13
laptops and me on the loudspeaker on a bloody old cell
32:17
phone. So I need to tune into, I need
32:20
to become a radio set because I need to tune in and out
32:23
background noise and like the ups and downs of the volume, you
32:26
know, people talk because they're talking from different,
32:29
different settings. And then me mediating A20 plus
32:34
people alone. So I am the interpreter, the
32:36
mediator, the advocate. Sometimes we advocate very
32:39
little. It's really dangerous.
32:41
And you're not too interpreters, you're alone, so you don't take
32:44
turns. And conference interpretation.
32:45
We take some rest. Five hours straight.
32:48
Five hours straight. So there there is a moment
32:50
possible. There's a moment thinks it's not
32:53
we're we're superheroes, PSI, we're superheroes.
32:55
You are heroes. We are heroes as conference
32:57
interpreters because I am one as well.
32:59
And then there was, there's a moment because things start
33:02
getting heated up and they started quarreling.
33:05
There was this one that the, the father, he was on a Zoom screen
33:09
from his setting and he spoke Spanish.
33:11
The mother spoke Portuguese, the child was bilingual.
33:14
And they started quarrelling amongst each other in Spanish,
33:18
Portuguese. And the child replying back in
33:20
Spanish and Portuguese. And all the tutors and advisors
33:24
and stuff, they were like, what are they saying?
33:26
What are they saying? We don't speak Spanish, we don't
33:27
speak Portuguese. And then it was a huge mess.
33:30
And then everybody spoke, speaking on top of each other.
33:33
What is the most efficient method?
33:35
You go silent. You go silent because then they
33:38
start going silent 1 by 1, you know, And then they start going
33:41
like, where's the interpreter? He she going?
33:43
He, she going, where's the interpreter?
33:44
Because without interpreter nothing happens.
33:47
And then you can go back to saying.
33:48
Like. But then I go back and like time
33:50
and like. This is the interpreter speaking
33:53
permission to mediate. When one person speaks, the
33:57
order has to shut up, you know, and then they go like, and then
34:05
what really makes me go nuts is not the setting itself.
34:09
You know, the the scenario like the the subject is when people
34:12
do not know how to use this, this interpreter.
34:15
If they start speaking on top of each other, on top of the
34:17
interpreter, no turn taking sensitivity, you know, or they
34:21
like machine gun you with words, you know, it's like, I'm not a
34:25
machine, Sir. I'm taking notes.
34:27
And I have, because of HIPAA and because of all the compliance
34:31
and regulations on privacy and data protection, you cannot take
34:36
digital notes. You can.
34:38
It must only have handwritten notes.
34:40
I can take digital notes, but not on a cloud based app, you
34:43
know, like I can use Word dot doc, but not cloud based, you
34:47
know, because otherwise all the sensitive data will be sprayed
34:50
away all over the Internet. Yeah.
34:52
So I take handwritten notes. And then it's like taking notes,
34:56
thinking notes, lots of people talking.
34:57
Then I say, Sir, this is the interpreter speaking, permission
35:01
to intervene. I need you to slow down.
35:04
I need you to speak in chunks, you know, because they monologue
35:08
away. You know, because PSI.
35:10
PSI is really difficult because it's a lot of all modes
35:14
together. So it's long, consecutive, short
35:16
consecutive dialogue, consecutive.
35:19
Seem you secretive and simultaneous.
35:22
When things get hot, you know you go.
35:26
Through secretive, it's like a combination of simultaneous and
35:29
consecutive. Exactly, exactly.
35:31
It's a. Technique.
35:32
How does that work? Well, it works this way.
35:35
It will start on consecutive and then people start to speed up
35:39
their speech and then you go into simultaneous and then you
35:42
go back to consecutive because you all go the thermometer is
35:46
how they're feeling is their moods, you know so if they're
35:49
calm, they usually distraught because think you're calling the
35:53
Home Office, you know, because there was a problem with your
35:56
benefit. That is the Universal Credit,
35:58
yes. Ohe.
35:59
I haven't received my benefit this month and I have already
36:02
called you 20 times and nobody solves my problem.
36:06
They are usually distraught and nervous and and hey Jess, it's
36:10
like 15 minute appointments. So sometimes I take 15 people 15
36:16
minutes each with a single doctor from the NHS.
36:20
Wow. You know, so they're always
36:22
destroyed. They are always nervous.
36:23
They're always like really, really like, ah, you know, so I
36:28
need to be the one. And sometimes you need to use
36:30
tough love as I did right now, you know, like this.
36:33
Is the interpreter speaking permission to intervene?
36:35
I am the ruler here. Without the interpreter, there's
36:38
no communication. So you please respect this
36:40
interpreter. You please take turns when you
36:43
speak, you know, go on. You would like to say.
36:46
Something I mean, but there's two questions that pop in my
36:48
mind. Number one, I hope this one it's
36:51
not with the localization bias, you get well paid for this one.
36:54
I do. I do because because as I was
36:58
telling before, I worked on LinkedIn for about 7 months
37:02
before I started to change lanes, because I was a
37:06
diplomatic interpreter, on-site diplomatic interpreter from 2008
37:11
to 2013, but it was not really my thing, you know, like a
37:16
diplomatic. You sure?
37:20
Sometimes I am, but you know, being like 3 * a week going to
37:26
the capital because I live in this state is like 200
37:29
kilometres away from Sao Paulo capital.
37:32
So I had to stay there for like I had to go every week, stay
37:35
there four days a week. And then like lots of meetings
37:38
with president with high tier comments and governors and I had
37:44
to dress up, you know, and wear makeup and then I had to be
37:48
there like high heels and like impeccable, like Barbie in a
37:51
box, you know, like, you know, and sometimes there's, they're
37:55
saying rubbish, you know, they're saying, you know, that
37:58
you know what I'm talking about. They're saying rubbish.
38:00
I don't have the guts for that. So I left it and I went back to
38:03
tutoring languages and public speaking and academic
38:07
translation. Then I said, I'm done with
38:09
teaching. I'm done with academic
38:11
translation. I want to go to commercial
38:13
translation only. And then that's was when church
38:18
PT came. It was from 2022 to 2023 started
38:22
and there wasn't nobody in commercial translation and I
38:25
didn't know I was supposed to use the bloody cut toes because
38:29
when I started in translation mates, we are talking 1997, my
38:34
first abstract was on paper with a big, you know, a blue and red
38:39
beak to separate the topics and stuff.
38:41
For pen and paper as well. You know, so and then all my
38:44
clients, they were direct clients and they sent me the
38:47
documents on word dot doc. I would translate and localizing
38:51
word dot doc would send it to my revisor and they would send me
38:55
back in Word doc. I would send the papers, the
38:57
academic papers back to my clients on Word doc.
39:00
They would put on a PDF and send to the journals, you know, So it
39:05
was really easy and never, I never even knew what a cut to
39:08
was until 2022. And then they said, oh, you need
39:10
to use cut tools because for commercial translation, if you
39:13
want to be a pro blah, blah, blah, you need to use cut tools.
39:15
And then I said, OK, I'll try. And then I got hired by Ferrari
39:18
and Mercedes-Benz and Fiat altogether throughout an agency,
39:24
but they were the end client, so I had to translate manuals, car
39:28
manuals and agricultural machine manuals from English into
39:33
Italian and Brazilian Portuguese and vice versa altogether.
39:37
Yeah, I just have a quick question about going back to the
39:39
the the geolocation. Yeah, premium location bias.
39:44
Yeah. Do you have any tips for for
39:47
people who are starting in the industry and may fall into this
39:50
trap? Because I would assume that
39:52
someone who is just beginning wants to make some money and a
39:55
name for themselves like they may fall into this trap.
39:58
So do you have any, any tips for for people who like would be at
40:02
risk of going through what you did?
40:04
Yeah, I always post on LinkedIn, try to educate them.
40:07
Like I'm interpreters, I'm a PSI advocate here as I try to
40:10
educate them. And I showed the red flags, you
40:12
know, and I always tell them, look, if you're a beginner, you
40:16
know, because I was once a beginner as well.
40:18
My first job offer before this British agency, it was not
40:22
really for interpreting, but it was for customer service with
40:25
Obamacare. Obamacare, you know, wow, OK, it
40:29
was for customer service, 100% in English.
40:31
And I got paid $4.00 an hour for a 12 hour shift with 130 minute,
40:37
no paid break for lunch. And it was from Monday to
40:40
Saturday, 12 hours on the go. But then I stayed there only for
40:44
15 days because, you know, I'm, I'm insurgent, I'm
40:47
insubordinate. And I was calling my team like
40:51
let's call the union. You know, one last question
40:54
before we go, When I heard and I for me, it's a complete
40:57
discovery what you did with the PSI.
40:59
Do you think that the elephant in the room, which is basically
41:02
a I? Do you think that you're feared
41:05
of getting replaced by it? Or this is way too chaotic and
41:09
the machine will never be able to keep?
41:11
Up exactly that and also so far it's permanently forbidden to
41:16
use AI in medical and public service settings because it's
41:19
very sensitive matters. You know, we are dealing with
41:21
the life and death of people 24/7 as I told you, if they are
41:26
mistakes because there there is the term gallstone.
41:28
Yes, gallstone can be produced by the bladder or the
41:32
gallbladder. So you need to specify with the
41:35
doctor and the patient is this Goldstone coming from the
41:38
bladder or the gallbladder, you know, but the I will translate
41:43
gallstones just like bladder or kidney stone.
41:48
Right there, there's a there. There's such a serious
41:51
consequences. So you know, if they are
41:54
mistakes, bladder with kidney and gallbladder and the
41:57
gallstone saying no, this tone is not coming from the
41:59
gallbladder, it's coming from the kidney but and the person
42:02
goes to surgery. We want to know sometimes and
42:05
not the oh, they operated, they're on the wrong leg or
42:07
something. AI does that.
42:11
AI operates the wrong legs all the time.
42:14
I hear that passing the kidney stone as a as a man is like the
42:17
equivalent of giving childbirth, but I don't know it well.
42:20
I hope I will never get to experience that.
42:22
Done. I had my gallbladder removed
42:24
because I had. Stuff because of AI.
42:30
Yeah, I removed the wrong part on Ella.
42:34
It was way before that. Alright, Doris, thank you so
42:39
much for coming to the podcast. You brought a lot of energy.
42:42
Thank you today. It was really awesome.
42:45
We will invite you again. And I'm sure that there are
42:48
many, many, many more stories, but the lesson to remember is
42:52
beware of scammers out there. Yes, and that's a very important
42:57
thing to remember and change your LinkedIn localization
43:02
settings. You're on the right one.
43:04
Test agencies, yes. Well, yeah, don't worry, maybe
43:08
you don't wanna work for those people anyway.
43:10
But. Don't set it up when you're on
43:12
vacation and maybe underdeveloped.
43:14
Country Bahamas. Yeah.
43:16
Yeah, alright guys. Brian, thank you very much,
43:21
Doris. Don't forget to like, share,
43:24
subscribe, comment and all of that and we'll meet each other
43:28
again for another episode of Found an Interpretation podcast.
43:32
Thank you very much. Good day.
43:34
Good. Luck you too guys.
43:36
Great weekend ahead. Bye bye.