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Navigating Shared Finances · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money. Hello, and
0:15
Speaker 1: welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials
0:17
Speaker 1: who want financial freedom?
0:19
Speaker 2: Is that still relevant? It's not just millennials. Cite lots
0:22
Speaker 2: of other people.
0:23
Speaker 1: To everyone who wants financial freedom. We can't change the cat,
0:27
Speaker 1: We can't the catchphrase.
0:30
Speaker 2: Okay, well we won't do that, say millennials, but we
0:33
Speaker 2: mean everybody. Guy. Should I do it again? No? Absolutely,
0:36
Speaker 2: let's carry on.
0:38
Speaker 1: So, navigating money is a tricky business, and things can
0:42
Speaker 1: get a whole lot trickier when you're navigating it with
0:45
Speaker 1: your partner. For example, how do you figure out how
0:47
Speaker 1: to balance the bills without micromanaging and souring the relationship?
0:51
Speaker 1: How do you?
0:52
Speaker 2: Am I going to have to answer this? Maybe I'll
0:54
Speaker 2: help answer it, all right, that's good.
0:56
Speaker 1: How do you share the load if one of you
0:58
Speaker 1: earns six figures and the other one's doing an unpaid internship.
1:01
Speaker 2: Well I'm not in that situation, so I don't know how.
1:03
Speaker 1: And very importantly, what do you do if you have
1:06
Speaker 1: very different money goals and values? Surely you can answer
1:08
Speaker 1: that one.
1:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, like goals and values, value?
1:11
Speaker 1: All right. My name is Georgia King, and you've heard
1:14
Speaker 1: her several times already joining me today to answer the
1:17
Speaker 1: tough questions, is Victoria divine? Before we do get into it,
1:22
Speaker 1: doer any particularly juicy stories about relationships and finance.
1:27
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's juicy, but I did have
1:29
Speaker 2: money issues in one of my relationships. Historically. It wasn't
1:33
Speaker 2: a massive awful issue, right, It was just we had
1:36
Speaker 2: differing income. So I was still at university and my
1:39
Speaker 2: ex partner was not at university and was really smart.
1:43
Speaker 2: So I had a really high paying job and I wasn't.
1:45
Speaker 2: So that's why I kind of was like, oh, I
1:46
Speaker 2: don't know how to answer that when you said unpaid
1:48
Speaker 2: internship and six because that was literally my situation. But
1:52
Speaker 2: the tough situation was that he wanted me to contribute
1:55
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty and that just wasn't financially viable because
1:59
Speaker 2: he could save massive amounts and I couldn't, And it
2:01
Speaker 2: just ended up putting us in a position where we
2:03
Speaker 2: would argue all the time about you know, wanting to
2:06
Speaker 2: do things and me not wanting to do things. And
2:08
Speaker 2: you know, we lived in a really nice apartment because
2:10
Speaker 2: that's what he chose and wanted to live in and
2:14
Speaker 2: I felt like it was just a really big financial stretch,
2:18
Speaker 2: and I was working my butt off to feel like
2:20
Speaker 2: I didn't have much left at the end of the
2:21
Speaker 2: day because I was doing unifull time and then working
2:23
Speaker 2: in hospitality, and then also working in retail on the
2:27
Speaker 2: weekends because hashtag Sunday pay. But all of that wasn't
2:31
Speaker 2: really making me feel like I was contributing to somebody
2:34
Speaker 2: who was earning a significant amount more. And you know what,
2:37
Speaker 2: it wasn't the crux of our relationship. And I'm not
2:40
Speaker 2: dramatizing it much, but I think that it's important to
2:43
Speaker 2: talk about because that's a situation that I know a
2:46
Speaker 2: lot of our community has been in.
2:48
Speaker 1: Okay, so fifty to fifty is an option. What are
2:51
Speaker 1: some other ways of managing money in a relationship?
2:54
Speaker 2: Gee, managing money in a relationship or with our lover.
2:57
Speaker 2: As you've written in our notes is it's very hard
3:01
Speaker 2: and it's not one size fits all. In fact, personal
3:03
Speaker 2: finance is just that it is personal, my friends, and
3:06
Speaker 2: not every single person is going to manage their money
3:08
Speaker 2: in the same ways. I have friends who manage it
3:11
Speaker 2: completely independently. I have clients who manage it independently. I
3:14
Speaker 2: have clients who manage it together. The way I manage
3:17
Speaker 2: my money might not be the way you and Harps
3:18
Speaker 2: manage your money, and I think that that's cool. It
3:21
Speaker 2: doesn't actually matter how you do it, as long as
3:24
Speaker 2: you are comfortable with it and both parties in whatever
3:27
Speaker 2: relationship you are in, or maybe there's more than two
3:30
Speaker 2: parties in the relationship, it doesn't matter. Everybody just has
3:33
Speaker 2: to feel like they're on the same page. And that
3:35
Speaker 2: starts with communication. It starts with talking about your money.
3:39
Speaker 2: It starts with talking about what you want to do
3:41
Speaker 2: with it. And to do another fluffy episode break here.
3:46
Speaker 2: It is about not only understanding your money story, but
3:48
Speaker 2: also understanding your partner's money story deeply, because if you
3:52
Speaker 2: feel inherently different about money to the way they do,
3:55
Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to understand the way
3:57
Speaker 2: they make money decisions, and you're always going to be like, oh,
4:00
Speaker 2: but why does he do why does she do? Or
4:03
Speaker 2: why do they always do that with their money? I
4:05
Speaker 2: just don't get it. And for you to understand that,
4:07
Speaker 2: you actually need to go back to the way that
4:09
Speaker 2: they were raised. So lots of people in our community
4:11
Speaker 2: have suggested having a joint bank account, which can be
4:14
Speaker 2: a really great idea. In fact, our friends over it
4:16
Speaker 2: up Bank have just recently done their two up series.
4:19
Speaker 2: It's not like the other shared bank accounts. We have
4:22
Speaker 2: to go into bank and you have to set it
4:24
Speaker 2: up and sign for it. And if you and your
4:26
Speaker 2: partner don't see Eida eye anymore, you don't have to
4:28
Speaker 2: march them down to the bank to sign off on
4:31
Speaker 2: an account that you don't want together anymore. They have
4:34
Speaker 2: this two up feature where you can kind of like
4:35
Speaker 2: invite them to be a game player in your joint
4:38
Speaker 2: account and then you run it together and you have
4:40
Speaker 2: the same responsibilities and it's just much easier. And to
4:42
Speaker 2: be honest, their branding is really cool and maybe that's
4:44
Speaker 2: what's selling me, but it's not. I just think the
4:47
Speaker 2: feature is really cool and also low key sharing too
4:50
Speaker 2: much personal information. That's not about me. It's actually about Jess,
4:53
Speaker 2: her and her partner I have just started using yeah,
4:56
Speaker 2: and she's really liking it. So that's Jess's first joint
4:58
Speaker 2: fund with her boyfriend. Yes, Oh that's that's a big step. Yeah,
5:01
Speaker 2: she's going to talk about Jod soon. I've been talking
5:03
Speaker 2: about it. That's why I'm sharing. It is not a
5:05
Speaker 2: secret gotch, but she's really liking it, and I actually
5:10
Speaker 2: I think that that's a really cool way to do it,
5:12
Speaker 2: because it's like having a joint fund, but it's kind
5:14
Speaker 2: of less of a commitment, so you can use it
5:16
Speaker 2: for other people to like your housemate or your roommate,
5:18
Speaker 2: without actually having to establish an entirely new bank account,
5:21
Speaker 2: which look it can be an admin drama, but it
5:24
Speaker 2: can also just be a really a really big pain.
5:27
Speaker 2: So joining finances by having a joint account can be
5:31
Speaker 2: a good idea because it means that you both function
5:33
Speaker 2: independently when it comes to money. You both have your
5:36
Speaker 2: income and then you have a set amount that you
5:38
Speaker 2: choose to put into a joint account. And then some
5:40
Speaker 2: couples actually have all of their money going into one
5:43
Speaker 2: account and they share their finances completely. And this is
5:47
Speaker 2: not a good or a bad way to go about it.
5:48
Speaker 2: It is the way I manage money with my partner,
5:50
Speaker 2: and I'm open about that because I have nothing to hide.
5:53
Speaker 2: But then also I just want more people to have
5:55
Speaker 2: more conversations about how money is managed and what that
5:57
Speaker 2: looks like and just how it flows. I'm not asking you, hey, Georgia,
6:00
Speaker 2: how much money do you earn? Because that's not the
6:02
Speaker 2: conversation at hand. It's just how I manage my cash flow,
6:05
Speaker 2: and that's kind of interesting. And it also helps me
6:08
Speaker 2: when I know what you're up to, because you might
6:10
Speaker 2: have a good idea that I haven't thought about, and
6:12
Speaker 2: money conversations can only empower us if they had in
6:15
Speaker 2: that way. So everything goes into the one account and
6:17
Speaker 2: then we jointly make decisions on that lump sum of
6:20
Speaker 2: money instead of talking about what I bring to the
6:23
Speaker 2: table and what he brings to the table. And for
6:26
Speaker 2: us that works really well, and for some of my
6:28
Speaker 2: clients that works really well, especially when they do things
6:31
Speaker 2: like go on matt leave, because they don't feel like
6:33
Speaker 2: they're not contributing to the family anymore because they always
6:35
Speaker 2: just had to their money. And they're not talking about
6:37
Speaker 2: what Georgia earns versus Victoria earns, and what have you
6:40
Speaker 2: earned and how can we do this? It's always just okay, well,
6:43
Speaker 2: this is our income together. So it's different for everybody,
6:47
Speaker 2: and I can't harp on about that enough. But there's
6:49
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways to manage finances, and in fact,
6:52
Speaker 2: you might decide that you don't want to manage finances
6:54
Speaker 2: at all with your partner, and you just want them
6:56
Speaker 2: to tell you what half the bill is every month,
6:59
Speaker 2: and that is what it is, and you're just are independent.
7:01
Speaker 2: That is also completely cool. There is no right and
7:04
Speaker 2: no wrong.
7:05
Speaker 1: Back to the way you manage your money with your partner.
7:09
Speaker 2: Oh, you want me per the answers I see.
7:11
Speaker 1: I want to know from your perspective what elements of
7:15
Speaker 1: risk there are in doing that, because obviously, yeah, so
7:19
Speaker 1: how do you safeguard yourself from those risks? Because you know,
7:22
Speaker 1: we're all about empowering women to exactly their careers.
7:25
Speaker 2: But exactly. Kind of very glad you asked that, because
7:27
Speaker 2: it can be a really bad step for a lot
7:29
Speaker 2: of people. It can lead to financial abuse, It can
7:32
Speaker 2: lead to so many things occurring that you might not
7:34
Speaker 2: want to occur, can leave you to feel like you're
7:37
Speaker 2: not as independent as you deserve to feel. So for
7:40
Speaker 2: me personally, I have my own bank accounts still, I
7:44
Speaker 2: have an emergency fund that my partner can't touch, sucker,
7:47
Speaker 2: and we have both joined access on that account, and
7:51
Speaker 2: at this point in my life, I feel really comfortable
7:53
Speaker 2: for him to have that, and we have this mortgage together,
7:57
Speaker 2: and that your account that our money goes into is
7:59
Speaker 2: actually an off set on our mortgage, so that our
8:01
Speaker 2: money's working as hard for us as we do for it,
8:03
Speaker 2: and all of the other stuff that I usually pipe.
8:06
Speaker 2: But for me, I think having that emergency fund off
8:10
Speaker 2: to the side, to make sure that I have access
8:12
Speaker 2: to money twenty four seven that nobody else can touch
8:16
Speaker 2: or take away from me is what helps me feel
8:18
Speaker 2: like okay, Like if the proverbial ever hit the fan,
8:21
Speaker 2: I'm okay, I know why that works for me. I'm
8:24
Speaker 2: not saying it would work for you. So that's where
8:28
Speaker 2: I think joint accounts are really helpful. And you might
8:31
Speaker 2: actually combine finances completely, but never choose to get paid
8:34
Speaker 2: into that account, so it might come into your own
8:37
Speaker 2: personal bank account, and then every single month you make
8:39
Speaker 2: the decision to transfer it manually to a joint account.
8:43
Speaker 2: So you're managing money together. But there's that hurdle to
8:45
Speaker 2: make sure that you always are in control of your
8:48
Speaker 2: income and it's not going into somebody else's hands automatically,
8:51
Speaker 2: And that's a really important step to take.
8:54
Speaker 1: If you split from a legal perspective, would you just
8:57
Speaker 1: cut it in half?
8:58
Speaker 2: Is that how it works from a legal if it
9:00
Speaker 2: always starts at fifty to fifty, but then it goes
9:02
Speaker 2: back and forth in percentages depending on what the personal
9:05
Speaker 2: situation is. I'm obviously not a lawyer, so it can't
9:07
Speaker 2: pass too much comment on that. But the thing about
9:10
Speaker 2: the law is when you're going through a separation with
9:13
Speaker 2: your partner, they don't necessarily care too much about the law.
9:16
Speaker 2: And we've all heard about people who have had their
9:19
Speaker 2: bank accounts cleaned out by their partner. And you're right,
9:22
Speaker 2: you can go down the legal track and hopefully recover
9:24
Speaker 2: that at some point, but you in that moment and
9:27
Speaker 2: at that point in time, have no access to money,
9:29
Speaker 2: and that is the problem. It is not okay, well,
9:32
Speaker 2: you know, down the track they'll get it back, like
9:34
Speaker 2: your partner has left you stranded in that situation. I
9:37
Speaker 2: think that's really important to talk about because it can
9:40
Speaker 2: happen and you do need to be really vigilant.
9:42
Speaker 1: So let's move on here, be at what stage in
9:46
Speaker 1: the relationship should you talk about combining your finances. I
9:49
Speaker 1: saw in the Facebook group that it seems to be
9:51
Speaker 1: when people move in together or buy a house, which
9:54
Speaker 1: makes sense is that usually the time.
9:57
Speaker 2: Can I say never. Yeah, yeah, So the answer never.
10:00
Speaker 2: You never should have to talk about it. You can
10:04
Speaker 2: talk about it, but it is not an essential relationship step.
10:08
Speaker 2: If you want to manage your money independently, you do that. Friend,
10:12
Speaker 2: I don't want you to feel like, oh, I'm gonna
10:16
Speaker 2: move in with this guy. I guess we should do this.
10:18
Speaker 2: If it makes sense to then have a joint bank
10:19
Speaker 2: account to pay for bills or to pay for it,
10:21
Speaker 2: go for it. But I want people to feel like
10:23
Speaker 2: they can maintain their independence and not be reliant on
10:26
Speaker 2: somebody else or have somebody else control their financial future.
10:30
Speaker 2: Like what if you just don't want your partner to
10:32
Speaker 2: see your bank statements. You're not trying to hide your purchases.
10:35
Speaker 2: You just feel uncomfortable with it. That's your story to tell.
10:38
Speaker 2: It is not somebody else's to just get access to it.
10:41
Speaker 2: And being in a relationship is a privilege, like you
10:43
Speaker 2: are sharing yourself with somebody else. They should always have
10:47
Speaker 2: respect for you, your decisions, your body, your choices, and
10:51
Speaker 2: if they don't respect that, you just want to manage
10:53
Speaker 2: your money on your own, Like that's a massive red
10:55
Speaker 2: flag to me. So there's no time that you should
10:58
Speaker 2: but there are a number of time that you might
11:01
Speaker 2: want to start the conversation personally and that's okay. It
11:05
Speaker 2: might be moving in together, it might be getting a
11:07
Speaker 2: mortgage together. You might have some debt together. You might
11:11
Speaker 2: have a child which means you've got this big expense
11:13
Speaker 2: now that you're both jointly responsible for, so someone wants
11:16
Speaker 2: to cover it. So I think it is really important
11:19
Speaker 2: to realize that you don't have to have a conversation
11:21
Speaker 2: about combining finances, but you do have to have a
11:24
Speaker 2: conversation about is money. You have to talk to your
11:26
Speaker 2: partner about money. You have to be on the same page,
11:28
Speaker 2: and you do have to understand what their view is
11:32
Speaker 2: and what they want to do and understand why as well.
11:36
Speaker 1: How do you have that conversation?
11:37
Speaker 2: You just go, hey, Georgia, how do you feel about
11:39
Speaker 2: joint finances? On date one? Yeah? Just on date one. Actually,
11:43
Speaker 2: I've got this survey right that I used to take
11:45
Speaker 2: on dates. It would be like, what's your ability to
11:48
Speaker 2: earn income in the future? Are your parents wealthy? Yeah?
11:51
Speaker 2: All those really important questions you ask on a first date.
11:55
Speaker 2: But no, can you imagine if people were asking those
11:57
Speaker 2: questions on a first date, not only is it super invasive.
12:00
Speaker 2: It's really weird, and I don't want people to feel
12:03
Speaker 2: like they have to start that conversation. But if you
12:06
Speaker 2: think it's starting to get serious with somebody, that money
12:10
Speaker 2: conversation should start early on, understanding that money conversations are
12:14
Speaker 2: had all around us at all times. They don't necessarily
12:17
Speaker 2: have to be about you. They don't necessarily have to
12:20
Speaker 2: be about like, hey, Georgia, what do you earn? Like?
12:22
Speaker 2: I think it's more about like, oh, don't feel like
12:24
Speaker 2: you always have to get it, like I don't know
12:26
Speaker 2: your money situation. Giving people permission to have a conversation
12:30
Speaker 2: with you about money is really important as well. And
12:32
Speaker 2: they're only going to want to talk to you about
12:35
Speaker 2: money if you've made them feel really comfortable to do so,
12:38
Speaker 2: And often that starts with a level of vulnerability from
12:41
Speaker 2: you because they might not be ready for it. I
12:43
Speaker 2: don't think throwing questions like so, what do you think
12:45
Speaker 2: about money is a good idea to begin a money conversation,
12:49
Speaker 2: But talking about your own finances with the me is like, oh,
12:53
Speaker 2: so I've got this bill coming up and it's really
12:55
Speaker 2: stressing me out because like, oh my gosh, I completely
12:57
Speaker 2: forgot to do my cash flow this month or whatever
13:00
Speaker 2: it is. But starting with yourself can make other people
13:03
Speaker 2: feel really comfortable about opening up, and for me, that's
13:05
Speaker 2: a really good way to do it, all.
13:07
Speaker 1: Right, Mace, So what if you've you've worked yourself up
13:09
Speaker 1: to have this conversation, You've had the conversation and you're
13:12
Speaker 1: not on the same page, so you have very different
13:14
Speaker 1: money stories. He might really want to travel the world.
13:17
Speaker 1: That's what he sees for his money for the next
13:20
Speaker 1: five years. He's going to put that towards travel. Probably
13:22
Speaker 1: not the best idea given the world.
13:24
Speaker 2: Situation right now.
13:25
Speaker 1: But you might really be planning on buying a home
13:28
Speaker 1: one day. How do you figure that out if your
13:32
Speaker 1: goals are very different.
13:33
Speaker 2: So money goals are a reflection of your life goals.
13:36
Speaker 2: And what you're telling me is that partner wants to
13:39
Speaker 2: travel the world and you want to settle down and
13:41
Speaker 2: have a home, and those two outcomes are very different.
13:45
Speaker 2: And I think that needs to go beyond just a
13:47
Speaker 2: money conversation. And that's why money is so hard, because
13:50
Speaker 2: it really makes you question what you want from life.
13:52
Speaker 2: When you start talking about budgets, it's not just the budget,
13:56
Speaker 2: it's not just what you spend on groceries each week,
13:58
Speaker 2: it's asking you what you want to save for and
14:01
Speaker 2: that can feel like a really overwhelming question when you
14:04
Speaker 2: just don't even know where you want to be the
14:05
Speaker 2: next weekend. So when you're talking with your partner about
14:09
Speaker 2: money stories and what you want to work towards together,
14:12
Speaker 2: I think it's important to be on the same page
14:14
Speaker 2: with them in general, like what do you want to
14:16
Speaker 2: achieve in life? Because your partner might actually really want
14:19
Speaker 2: to buy a home, and you might want to buy
14:21
Speaker 2: a home, but they've just fallen in love with this
14:23
Speaker 2: idea of moving overseas and working in London for a
14:26
Speaker 2: couple of years, and that's this romanticized idea in their
14:29
Speaker 2: head that you know, you guys could achieve together. So
14:32
Speaker 2: understand why they want to do it. Is it that
14:35
Speaker 2: they want to travel because they are in love with
14:37
Speaker 2: that idea and then want to buy a house, or
14:39
Speaker 2: is it because they want to become a digital nomad
14:42
Speaker 2: and not actually own a home, Like what is the
14:44
Speaker 2: meaning behind that goal and what do they actually want
14:46
Speaker 2: to achieve and are you going to be part of that?
14:49
Speaker 2: Is that something that you actually want to achieve? And
14:53
Speaker 2: money goals can be hard because they do make you
14:55
Speaker 2: question a relationship. They do make you question, well, if
14:59
Speaker 2: he wants this and I want that, like is this
15:01
Speaker 2: and how it's going to work out? And I'm not
15:03
Speaker 2: going to sit here and tell you, well, you have
15:05
Speaker 2: to get on the same page, because that's irresponsible of me.
15:09
Speaker 2: I don't think you have to get on the same
15:11
Speaker 2: page at all. I think you have to work out
15:13
Speaker 2: what you truly want and find a partner that is
15:16
Speaker 2: on the same page as you and supports that. Because
15:19
Speaker 2: let's go back to that example you've got. If they say, yeah,
15:22
Speaker 2: but Georgia, I really want to go overseas and just
15:25
Speaker 2: see the world for a couple of years and then
15:27
Speaker 2: knuckle down and save. I can understand that. Are you
15:30
Speaker 2: in for that? Though? Are you happy to compromise your
15:32
Speaker 2: goal of saving for a home to put it off
15:35
Speaker 2: for a little bit longer until you can both afford it.
15:38
Speaker 2: Every single relationship is always going to have some level
15:41
Speaker 2: of compromising it. You can't just get exactly what you
15:44
Speaker 2: want all the time. And I think it's what compromises
15:48
Speaker 2: them I willing to make for my partner, and what
15:51
Speaker 2: am I not willing to compromise on? Because if you
15:54
Speaker 2: are so hard and fast about buying your first home
15:56
Speaker 2: in five years time and your partner's not on board
15:59
Speaker 2: with that, it's not going to work. But if you're like, yeah,
16:01
Speaker 2: but like my goal is to buy a home and
16:03
Speaker 2: then my partner really wants to travel, Oh, I feel
16:05
Speaker 2: so stressed. Why don't we put that home still in
16:08
Speaker 2: the plan? Why don't we just put it further down
16:09
Speaker 2: the track so that we know you're still going to
16:12
Speaker 2: achieve your goal, your partner still gets to achieve their goal,
16:14
Speaker 2: and you get a goal on this journey together. And
16:16
Speaker 2: that's where negotiation comes into it, and you need to
16:19
Speaker 2: be able to talk to your partner and go, look,
16:20
Speaker 2: that's not the biggest thing for me, but I can
16:23
Speaker 2: see it's really important to you. And if you are
16:25
Speaker 2: in a relationship, you obviously care about that person and
16:28
Speaker 2: want them to achieve the things that make them happy.
16:31
Speaker 2: So that's where I think you should be coming from
16:34
Speaker 2: with it. But if you find that your partner and
16:37
Speaker 2: you are coming to a complete impasse, I think that's
16:39
Speaker 2: a deeper problem than just figuring out a budget. Let's
16:42
Speaker 2: be honest, Okay, Debt VICKID, what if you've had this
16:47
Speaker 2: conversation and you learn that your partner has crippling amounts
16:51
Speaker 2: of debt. It's a topical conversation. The other week in
16:55
Speaker 2: a Facebook group, and everybody had such colorful responses. Yeah,
17:00
Speaker 2: it got really heated in there. I had to step
17:02
Speaker 2: in a couple of times and be like, excuse me,
17:04
Speaker 2: we don't talk like that in this house. Was Oh
17:07
Speaker 2: my gosh, I should have put so many people in
17:08
Speaker 2: time out. I feel like the mother hen of that
17:12
Speaker 2: group sometimes. No, I think people were just getting really
17:14
Speaker 2: opinionated because they wanted what was best for the original
17:17
Speaker 2: poster without considering what the original poster actually wanted. And
17:21
Speaker 2: I get it, and I do too, I get really heated.
17:24
Speaker 2: Like if I found out that Georgia you were going
17:26
Speaker 2: through something like I know you so much more than
17:28
Speaker 2: I know your partner, who I still haven't even met,
17:30
Speaker 2: so I'm obviously going to be like, oh my god,
17:32
Speaker 2: get him out. I don't want to talk about that.
17:34
Speaker 2: I want to look after Georgia. And that's what the
17:36
Speaker 2: community was doing. And they were like, well, get rid
17:38
Speaker 2: of him because the partner had debt that he hadn't disclosed.
17:41
Speaker 2: In reality, this person actually really cared about their partner
17:45
Speaker 2: and could see why their partner hadn't disclosed that debt
17:47
Speaker 2: yet because they carried a lot of shame with it
17:49
Speaker 2: and they were probably embarrassed and they hadn't brought it
17:51
Speaker 2: up yet because money is so hard to talk about,
17:53
Speaker 2: so it is a really hard conversation to have. I
17:56
Speaker 2: think it's about a genuine hygiene check at the start
17:59
Speaker 2: of a relationship. But start the conversation really softly. Don't
18:03
Speaker 2: ever start the conversation in an accusatory way by asking
18:07
Speaker 2: them a question that could cause them embarrassment. Don't start
18:10
Speaker 2: it by going, hey, George, do you have personal debt?
18:12
Speaker 2: Because if they don't, they'll go no, And you've asked
18:14
Speaker 2: a closed ended question that doesn't carry on the conversation.
18:18
Speaker 2: But you've also asked a question and if the answer
18:20
Speaker 2: was yes, they might feel really bad about that. And
18:22
Speaker 2: you haven't had any money conversations with them previously. To
18:25
Speaker 2: make them feel like you are comfortable having that conversation,
18:28
Speaker 2: to make them comfortable with that conversation so that you
18:31
Speaker 2: are constructive and helpful and they know they're not being judged.
18:35
Speaker 2: So I think it's about you showing up and proving
18:38
Speaker 2: to them that you're a good person to talk about
18:40
Speaker 2: money with. And if push comes to shove and you've
18:42
Speaker 2: been talking about money and dropping hints like yes, you
18:45
Speaker 2: can ask that question. I don't think it's a bad thing.
18:47
Speaker 2: In fact, I think it's really important and really healthy
18:49
Speaker 2: for you to go, Hey, I was just wondering, do
18:52
Speaker 2: you actually have any personal loans or personal debt or
18:54
Speaker 2: anything like that. It's not a bad question to ask,
18:58
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't ever start with it the initial question.
19:01
Speaker 1: Flip side of that, yes, what if you're the one
19:03
Speaker 1: coming to the relationship with debt? Oh?
19:06
Speaker 2: I did that by yeah. So that was That was
19:08
Speaker 2: the situation I was in. And I've spoken before about
19:11
Speaker 2: how when I was much younger, I had a level
19:13
Speaker 2: of personal debt and I was really embarrassed about it.
19:16
Speaker 2: I hated it. I felt like it was a reflection
19:18
Speaker 2: of my poor money management and maybe I'm not a
19:20
Speaker 2: responsible person and back when I was the ripe old age,
19:23
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I was probably like twenty three,
19:24
Speaker 2: twenty four. I felt like I felt like my life
19:26
Speaker 2: was getting serious right Like I had my first serious job,
19:29
Speaker 2: I was single, I was dating, and it felt like
19:32
Speaker 2: I was, you know, maybe looking for something more serious.
19:35
Speaker 2: So then to feel a little bit out of control
19:38
Speaker 2: and feel like I didn't have my shit together, it
19:41
Speaker 2: was disempowering for me. So I didn't know how to
19:44
Speaker 2: have that conversation, and I didn't hide it, but I
19:46
Speaker 2: didn't talk about it. So it wasn't until further down
19:49
Speaker 2: the line when you know, push came to shove and
19:51
Speaker 2: we spoke about it. And I don't think at that
19:54
Speaker 2: time I told him how much it was. I think
19:56
Speaker 2: I just said, yeah, I've got a personal loan and like,
19:58
Speaker 2: I pay X amount on it. But to me, that
20:00
Speaker 2: amount actually really significantly impacted me. So when I met
20:04
Speaker 2: my partner, I think I was earning maybe like sixty
20:07
Speaker 2: five or seventy thousand dollars a year. I definitely wasn't,
20:10
Speaker 2: you know, making hundreds of thousands of dollars, And the
20:13
Speaker 2: monthly repayment of my personal loan was probably about seven
20:17
Speaker 2: hundred dollars, So that was a lot of money, especially
20:21
Speaker 2: for me who was living in a sharehouse with my
20:23
Speaker 2: best friend and her brother at the time, and I
20:26
Speaker 2: was paying what like maybe eleven hundred dollars in rent,
20:30
Speaker 2: so like a lot of my a lot of my
20:32
Speaker 2: cash flow was going towards this, so I wasn't exactly
20:36
Speaker 2: swimming in it, and I felt like that was really
20:39
Speaker 2: restricting me. But I also didn't know how to ask
20:41
Speaker 2: for help with that, and I also was not making
20:44
Speaker 2: additional repayments. I wasn't prioritizing it. I was just kind
20:47
Speaker 2: of pretending it wasn't happening, and in reality, I should
20:50
Speaker 2: have had conversations earlier. So if you're in that situation,
20:53
Speaker 2: I'm only sharing this because I know people are going
20:55
Speaker 2: to resonate with it, and to be honest, it's really
20:57
Speaker 2: helpful to know the semantics of a situation. So my
21:00
Speaker 2: partner didn't worry about it and it was never a
21:02
Speaker 2: point of conflict. But I know for a lot of
21:04
Speaker 2: couples it might be really incumbent on what is going on,
21:08
Speaker 2: they might go, oh, my god, you didn't disclose that.
21:10
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a bad thing that you didn't
21:11
Speaker 2: disclose it, yet, it just means you weren't comfortable with that.
21:14
Speaker 2: But if anybody ever gets up in arms with you
21:16
Speaker 2: about not disclosing something earlier, have I think about why
21:20
Speaker 2: you didn't and maybe try to clearly articulate that to
21:23
Speaker 2: your partner and that will help the situation significantly because
21:27
Speaker 2: a lot of people go, oh, well, I don't know,
21:29
Speaker 2: I don't know why I didn't tell you. Stop, take
21:32
Speaker 2: a breath, sit back, and go gin know what. I
21:34
Speaker 2: just genuinely was really embarrassed about that. I'm sorry I
21:37
Speaker 2: didn't tell you.
21:38
Speaker 1: Okay, So, continuing on this debt line of chat and V,
21:42
Speaker 1: is it ever okay for you to help your partner
21:45
Speaker 1: out with their debt or vice versa? Or it is okay?
21:48
Speaker 2: Of course it is. There's no such thing as right
21:50
Speaker 2: or wrong when it comes to you managing your money
21:52
Speaker 2: and making decisions about your money. I'm not going to
21:55
Speaker 2: judge you on the purchases you make, Georgia. I'm not
21:58
Speaker 2: going to judge you on the way that you want
21:59
Speaker 2: to your funds in line with your values. If you
22:02
Speaker 2: want to help your partner get out of debt sooner,
22:05
Speaker 2: then fantastic. But the thing I don't want you to
22:07
Speaker 2: do is then have that hanging over the relationship. Like
22:11
Speaker 2: if you are getting them out of debt because you
22:13
Speaker 2: see it as the right thing to do, and then
22:15
Speaker 2: your relationship ends and you've spent five grand getting them
22:18
Speaker 2: out of debt. I don't think that's a good idea.
22:21
Speaker 2: I think you should be getting them out of debt
22:23
Speaker 2: for the right reasons, and sometimes them just paying it
22:26
Speaker 2: off over the long term and them managing it individually
22:29
Speaker 2: is the best thing that can happen. Like, you don't
22:31
Speaker 2: have any responsibility over that. And it is a really
22:34
Speaker 2: hard conversation to have because some people will be of
22:37
Speaker 2: the mind of, Okay, well, now you're in your relationship,
22:39
Speaker 2: it's your money. Yeah, And I just think in twenty
22:41
Speaker 2: twenty one, that's not the case at all. You're right, legally,
22:44
Speaker 2: what's yours is mine and all of this other stuff.
22:46
Speaker 2: After you've lived with someone for a period of time,
22:49
Speaker 2: they do become your de facto. And we're not talking
22:52
Speaker 2: legally here. We're just talking about what is fair and reasonable,
22:55
Speaker 2: and only you and your partner can decide that.
22:57
Speaker 1: The Sarah from our group asks what you should do
23:01
Speaker 1: if one of you is earning lots of money and
23:04
Speaker 1: the other one is earning not a lot of money.
23:06
Speaker 1: Be that like an entry levelship?
23:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just are like focusing this around Victoria Divine's
23:13
Speaker 2: personal experiences to get her entire financial history into a podcast.
23:18
Speaker 2: Very coincidental, Yeah, it is very coincidental. But I genuinely
23:21
Speaker 2: feel a little bit awkward when I start talking about
23:23
Speaker 2: conversations about me, not because I'm ashamed of sharing them.
23:26
Speaker 2: I just don't want you to think I'm self centered.
23:29
Speaker 2: But I'm sharing them because I genuinely think they'll help.
23:31
Speaker 2: But that was the situation I was in, as I
23:33
Speaker 2: mentioned before, and I think it's a fickle conversation to
23:37
Speaker 2: be in because, let's be honest, let's stereotype for a
23:41
Speaker 2: hot second tier. Usually it's a male earning a lot
23:45
Speaker 2: more money than you do, and you are either in UNI,
23:48
Speaker 2: you might be young and be doing an unpaid internship
23:51
Speaker 2: or a grad role, or you know, still studying at
23:53
Speaker 2: UNI and working casually. Like whatever you're doing, you often
23:57
Speaker 2: idolize that person in a way like Wow, this so
24:00
Speaker 2: grown up, they're so put together, and you just feel
24:02
Speaker 2: like you should be saying yes to the things that
24:04
Speaker 2: they're saying. And if they're asking you to contribute fifty percent,
24:08
Speaker 2: often I see people just pandering me like, yeah, of course,
24:10
Speaker 2: I'll pay my way, like I just want to contribute,
24:12
Speaker 2: and we do just want to contribute. They're not forcing
24:15
Speaker 2: us to do that, and often it's just a conversation
24:18
Speaker 2: of oh, we'll just split it fifty to fifty. Yeah,
24:19
Speaker 2: because it sounds like the fair thing to do. But
24:22
Speaker 2: I think it's a deeper conversation of, well, who's driving
24:25
Speaker 2: this decision and who's actually talking this through? Because if
24:29
Speaker 2: you earn one hundred thousand dollars and your partner's earning
24:32
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, for example, is it fair if you
24:35
Speaker 2: don't share finances to move into an apartment that the
24:39
Speaker 2: partner who earns one hundred thousand dollars really wants to
24:41
Speaker 2: live in, and then expect the partner who earns fifty
24:43
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to contribute the same amount to when in reality,
24:47
Speaker 2: you are stunting the person with the lower incomes ability
24:50
Speaker 2: to save and invest and feel financially confident. I just
24:53
Speaker 2: don't think that's fair. So the way that I've worked
24:56
Speaker 2: with my clients to do this is by a percentage base.
25:00
Speaker 2: We've worked out that, Okay, no problems like that's a
25:02
Speaker 2: decision that that partner wants to make. How about I
25:05
Speaker 2: pay thirty percent rent, you pay seventy percent rent because
25:08
Speaker 2: you have a much higher income than me, and I
25:10
Speaker 2: still have financial goals. I still have things I want
25:13
Speaker 2: to achieve. I still have, you know, expenses that I
25:16
Speaker 2: need to incur, and I actually need some free cash flow.
25:19
Speaker 2: And I don't want to feel like I'm a slave
25:20
Speaker 2: to this rental payment that comes out each and every
25:23
Speaker 2: single month, because that in a relationship is going to
25:25
Speaker 2: create a very high level of resentment. And no one
25:28
Speaker 2: wants that in their relationship. And if your partner genuinely
25:32
Speaker 2: wants to support you, they'll be all about making sure
25:35
Speaker 2: things are genuinely fair. And genuinely fair does not equal
25:38
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. It never does.
25:40
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So I agree with everything you've said there
25:46
Speaker 1: obviously not in a position to disagree.
25:48
Speaker 2: You absolutely can disagree with me, because I don't want
25:51
Speaker 2: you to think that what I am saying is absolutely
25:54
Speaker 2: one hundred percent the right thing to do. Like I
25:56
Speaker 2: might be factually correct when it comes to statistics and
26:00
Speaker 2: financial information, but a lot of this, especially in today's podcast,
26:03
Speaker 2: is personal opinion. And you know, I do clearly have
26:07
Speaker 2: a voice, it's on this podcast, but it doesn't mean
26:09
Speaker 2: it's the right thing for you. I just don't want
26:11
Speaker 2: people to think that my way is the only way.
26:15
Speaker 2: Like there so there are so many options out there,
26:18
Speaker 2: and I do want you to consider all of them.
26:21
Speaker 2: I guess yeah.
26:22
Speaker 1: What I would question V is again, she's on the
26:25
Speaker 1: money is all about empowering women, upping our education.
26:29
Speaker 2: So if we have.
26:32
Speaker 1: Worked our butts off to get to this high position
26:34
Speaker 1: and we're earning bank and now we are combining our
26:37
Speaker 1: finances with a partner, is it okay to not necessarily
26:42
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with copying seventy percent of the percentage and
26:46
Speaker 1: they cop thirty percent? Do you know what I'm saying?
26:48
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, ok to feel a bit protective over you,
26:50
Speaker 2: absolutely can. I'm not saying you actually need to split
26:54
Speaker 2: it in a different percentage. I'm saying, if you're the
26:56
Speaker 2: one that wants the more expensive rent and you're asking
26:59
Speaker 2: your partner who has the lower amount of income to
27:02
Speaker 2: kind of compromise and cough up more rent, you should
27:05
Speaker 2: be covering that bill. But if your partner can't afford it,
27:08
Speaker 2: and they say, lookay, sorry, sorry, G I can't afford
27:11
Speaker 2: to pay that much rent, now it's your turn to compromise.
27:14
Speaker 2: If you're not willing to compromise your money, yeah that's fine.
27:17
Speaker 2: Let's get somewhere cheaper where we can afford to pay
27:19
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. Let's not make that decision. Let's not
27:22
Speaker 2: go out for so many dinners. We don't have to
27:24
Speaker 2: split things unevenly. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, it's
27:28
Speaker 2: not about that at all. It's more about, Hey, I
27:31
Speaker 2: think it's really reasonable if one's making more than another
27:34
Speaker 2: and wants to make a lifestyle decision that's not necessarily
27:37
Speaker 2: financially viable for the other person. I think it's about
27:40
Speaker 2: what works for you personally. And I want to put
27:43
Speaker 2: that idea on the table because too often people think
27:46
Speaker 2: it's taboo to ask their partner to pay more or
27:50
Speaker 2: for someone to be, you know, not splitting it evenly,
27:52
Speaker 2: when in reality, it is just fair to be able
27:55
Speaker 2: to financially contribute, especially in a romantic relationship where you're
27:59
Speaker 2: working to towards the same goals. And if the situations
28:02
Speaker 2: were reversed and I was in the position where I
28:04
Speaker 2: earned more money. I love my partner. He's so great.
28:08
Speaker 2: I would never want him to feel like he wasn't
28:10
Speaker 2: achieving anything. I wouldn't want him to feel like the
28:13
Speaker 2: life we lead is stopping him from saving and following
28:17
Speaker 2: his dreams. And I feel like if you put yourself
28:19
Speaker 2: in their shoes. It actually just makes sense. You should
28:23
Speaker 2: want the best for your partner, and if you don't want,
28:25
Speaker 2: you're in a relationship with that person.
28:28
Speaker 1: Perfectly said there V. All right, after a very short break,
28:31
Speaker 1: we'll be getting into what to do if your partner
28:33
Speaker 1: is maybe taking advantage of your generosity. We'll be talking
28:37
Speaker 1: about how to walk the line of being firm without
28:39
Speaker 1: being naggy, and there'll be plenty more in there as well,
28:42
Speaker 1: So please don't go anywhere, all right, back.
28:53
Speaker 2: Into it, V.
28:54
Speaker 1: My issue, Oh not my issue, just my hesitancy is.
28:59
Speaker 2: A worn Yeah, that can be nags all right, good,
29:02
Speaker 2: So you're a journalist, you can.
29:03
Speaker 1: Make a word, yeah, yeah, totally journalists and training clarification.
29:07
Speaker 1: Micromanaging is a really horrible trait, and no one wants
29:12
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with someone who is like
29:15
Speaker 1: naggy or controlling or has the tendency to micromanaged. Nor
29:19
Speaker 1: do you want to be that kind of person. So
29:21
Speaker 1: how do you find the balance between having control of
29:26
Speaker 1: your financial situation without coming across as a drainer?
29:29
Speaker 2: Some makes sense. I think it's about having the conversation
29:32
Speaker 2: really early on. Also, things like that if they're a
29:35
Speaker 2: red flag to you. They're a red flag to you.
29:37
Speaker 2: I think too many times we're willing to compromise on
29:40
Speaker 2: red flags because you're like, oh, it'll be fine because
29:42
Speaker 2: they're so nice, and we just see sunshine and roses
29:44
Speaker 2: at the start of our relationship, which is exactly how
29:46
Speaker 2: it's meant to work. But it's just really disappointing because
29:49
Speaker 2: then we get a couple of years into relationship you're like, oh, God,
29:52
Speaker 2: they are really naggy, and you just didn't notice it
29:55
Speaker 2: at the start because it didn't annoy you enough. But
29:57
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to have the conversation early
30:00
Speaker 2: on and have it in a way that you're setting
30:02
Speaker 2: expectations and that you are saying, look, this is how
30:05
Speaker 2: I want to run my financial life, and this is
30:07
Speaker 2: what I want to do, and definitely don't be the naggar.
30:10
Speaker 2: So too often do we assume other people should be
30:14
Speaker 2: doing things without looking at ourselves and what we want
30:16
Speaker 2: to do. And I think that role modeling the type
30:18
Speaker 2: of behavior you want in a relationship starting with you
30:21
Speaker 2: is really important, and often your partner will reflect the
30:24
Speaker 2: types of ways that you're speaking to them, and you
30:27
Speaker 2: won't realize and then you won't like it. But it's
30:29
Speaker 2: actually something that what was occurring in the relationship before.
30:32
Speaker 2: And I'm not always saying, look it was you. But
30:35
Speaker 2: when I look at my relationship, if I'm annoyed about something,
30:37
Speaker 2: I probably set that expectation and then I kick myself
30:40
Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, I did that, that's so annoying.
30:43
Speaker 2: But I think being honest about it is really important.
30:46
Speaker 2: So when conversations about money with your partner do come up,
30:50
Speaker 2: I think just trying to come from a place of love,
30:52
Speaker 2: like I always say, and just really respecting each other
30:55
Speaker 2: rather than approaching it in a passive aggressive tone is
30:58
Speaker 2: really important. It's going to set the conversation up for
31:01
Speaker 2: success instead of being a bitter one. And it's also
31:04
Speaker 2: important to have that conversation. So don't just not have
31:07
Speaker 2: it because you're uncomfortable, Because if you don't have a
31:09
Speaker 2: conversation because it makes you uncomfortable, that uncomfort turns into
31:12
Speaker 2: resentment and that is not what we want to a relationship.
31:15
Speaker 1: Is a quick way to end a relationship.
31:17
Speaker 2: I would have thought, Yeah, so if you don't want
31:18
Speaker 2: to be in a relationship, do that.
31:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do we do if it feels like our
31:24
Speaker 1: partner is starting to take the mickey or take advantage
31:26
Speaker 1: a little bit. Bonnie in our group, she mentioned that
31:29
Speaker 1: she's pitched in a lot for her partner over the journey,
31:32
Speaker 1: on things like rent holidays, car upgrades, that kind of thing,
31:36
Speaker 1: and she felt that he had started to kind of
31:38
Speaker 1: rely on that generosity. What would you do in.
31:41
Speaker 2: That situation, I would be looking at the boundaries that
31:45
Speaker 2: I've set and really trying to understand how we got
31:48
Speaker 2: to this situation. I don't think it's about immediately confronting
31:51
Speaker 2: your partner. I think it's about really looking at, well,
31:52
Speaker 2: how did we get here? It's often due to you
31:55
Speaker 2: being just too kind and too generous, and it's not
31:58
Speaker 2: a bad thing, it's definitely not something to be embarrassed about.
32:01
Speaker 2: But how did we get here? And is my partner
32:04
Speaker 2: taking advantage of me on purpose? I think there's two
32:07
Speaker 2: different ways that this ends up happening. One, they just
32:10
Speaker 2: take it for granted because it's just been happening and
32:12
Speaker 2: they're really comfortable in that relationship and they didn't mean it,
32:14
Speaker 2: And if you've brought it up, they'd be horrified to
32:17
Speaker 2: know that they were making you feel a little bit uncomfortable,
32:20
Speaker 2: and it did revert back to, you know, being a
32:22
Speaker 2: really equitable relationship very quickly. And then there's the people
32:25
Speaker 2: who are genuinely taking advantage of you, and unfortunately they
32:29
Speaker 2: will gaslight you and making you feel like that wasn't
32:32
Speaker 2: the case and oh you did this and that and
32:35
Speaker 2: the other. So I think you need to understand before
32:37
Speaker 2: even having that conversation why that's happening, so you can
32:40
Speaker 2: be clear on it, and then working towards resetting that
32:44
Speaker 2: boundary and talking to your partner about Okay, well, here's
32:46
Speaker 2: my expectations. I'm feeling really uncomfortable about this, you know,
32:50
Speaker 2: putting your values on the table and say this is
32:52
Speaker 2: what I value and this is what I do, and
32:54
Speaker 2: sometimes just being really blunt and saying I don't want
32:57
Speaker 2: to do this anymore. And I think you're well within
32:59
Speaker 2: your rights to do that. You don't owe somebody a
33:01
Speaker 2: free ride, You absolutely do not, and you don't want
33:04
Speaker 2: to live your life feeling like somebody else is taking
33:07
Speaker 2: advantage of you. You deserve, honestly, you deserve to be
33:10
Speaker 2: in a relationship where that other person respects you and
33:13
Speaker 2: loves you and supports you in every way. And if
33:17
Speaker 2: that's not the relationship you're in, like I would be
33:19
Speaker 2: questioning it.
33:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if they react badly to that, then that's
33:23
Speaker 1: probably a pretty good sign maybe it's time to.
33:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, get on out, catch a friend, Catch a friend.
33:30
Speaker 1: Okay, just a little trigger warning here. We're just going
33:33
Speaker 1: to spend the last couple of minutes of the episode
33:35
Speaker 1: talking about financial abuse. So if that is something that
33:40
Speaker 1: is quite sensitive to you, just leave the podcast now,
33:43
Speaker 1: because this is pretty much the end of the list. Yes,
33:46
Speaker 1: we will be on a more serious note. If our
33:49
Speaker 1: partner is being controlling about the way we spend our money,
33:53
Speaker 1: what do we do?
33:54
Speaker 2: I think this is a really important question to address,
33:57
Speaker 2: and speaking about financial abuse is something we need to
34:00
Speaker 2: do a lot more of. We've done a whole episode
34:02
Speaker 2: on it before, and controlling money is definitely a form
34:07
Speaker 2: of financial abuse. And I know we got a lot
34:09
Speaker 2: of feedback from that podcast which was really positive. And
34:12
Speaker 2: I also have some people who've messaged me and they're like,
34:14
Speaker 2: so sorry, Victoria. I listened to every single one of
34:16
Speaker 2: your podcasts, but I couldn't listen to that one because
34:18
Speaker 2: it would trigger me. And I get it. It is
34:20
Speaker 2: really hard to talk about because it sucks and it's
34:24
Speaker 2: the worst, and it happens over a long period of time,
34:27
Speaker 2: and financial abuse is not what you think it is.
34:30
Speaker 2: It could be in a relationship where it's romantic and
34:33
Speaker 2: it's a you know, your husband and wife and it's
34:35
Speaker 2: that stereotypical rom com movie financial abuse relationship. Or it
34:39
Speaker 2: could happen in a sibling relationship. It could happen with parents,
34:43
Speaker 2: it could happen with your grandparents, It could happen with
34:46
Speaker 2: literally anybody. And financial abuse creeps up on you. It's
34:50
Speaker 2: not something that just immediately starts happening. Someone isn't going
34:53
Speaker 2: to just walk up to you Georgia off the street
34:54
Speaker 2: and start, you know, taking all your money away from you.
34:57
Speaker 2: It's this slow wearing away of your confidence and your
35:00
Speaker 2: our ability to feel independent and feel like you're in
35:03
Speaker 2: control and feel like you know what you're doing. Sometimes
35:07
Speaker 2: it's you having access to your money completely, so you're like,
35:09
Speaker 2: but it can't be financial abuse because I completely have
35:13
Speaker 2: access to my money. But somebody else is controlling the
35:15
Speaker 2: decisions you make around your own money. And that is
35:18
Speaker 2: a form of financial abuse. And unfortunately it happens all
35:21
Speaker 2: too often, and too many times people don't feel like
35:25
Speaker 2: speaking up or you know, talking to somebody about it,
35:27
Speaker 2: because it's not in their minds quote real abuse because
35:31
Speaker 2: they're like, well, he's not hitting me, he's not yelling
35:33
Speaker 2: at me, he's not you know, it's just it's just
35:35
Speaker 2: the way he works. Oh, he's just a bit more controlling,
35:38
Speaker 2: or you know, they just want it to be like
35:40
Speaker 2: this because you know, he's a really type a person
35:43
Speaker 2: and I'm using him here because I guess it's really
35:46
Speaker 2: stereotypical to be that. But it could be a female,
35:48
Speaker 2: it could be a male, it could be a them,
35:50
Speaker 2: it could be anything. It's not. There's not only one
35:53
Speaker 2: way of this happening. But I think having this conversation
35:56
Speaker 2: is really important and to know that it isn't or more,
36:00
Speaker 2: if you're feeling really under confident about making money decisions
36:03
Speaker 2: because you're worried about what your partner is doing, or
36:06
Speaker 2: if you have to call your partner before making a
36:08
Speaker 2: money decision. Now I'm not saying, hey, Georgia, if you
36:11
Speaker 2: have to call Harper to make a money decision, like
36:14
Speaker 2: that's financial abuse, because you know what, my partner would
36:18
Speaker 2: be so angry at me if I went out and
36:21
Speaker 2: spent six hundred bucks on a new Apple Watch and
36:23
Speaker 2: just came home with it. Because we have financial goals
36:26
Speaker 2: we're working towards together, so there are like, let's be honest,
36:29
Speaker 2: it's within reason. Steve's gonna be pretty mad if I
36:32
Speaker 2: come home with really big purchases that I haven't planned
36:35
Speaker 2: for that are compromising our goals and what we're trying
36:39
Speaker 2: to achieve, He's not going to be happy. That's not
36:41
Speaker 2: financial abuse. But if I wanted to go out for
36:43
Speaker 2: drinks after work with you know you and have a
36:46
Speaker 2: wine and you know, we spend fifty bucks because we
36:48
Speaker 2: got some wine and a cheese platter, and then I
36:49
Speaker 2: went home and he's really angry at me about that,
36:52
Speaker 2: I would be really worried about why that's the case.
36:56
Speaker 2: So there's different levels of what this means. And I
36:58
Speaker 2: guess that's why it's so hard to determine what is
37:01
Speaker 2: and what isn't financial abuse, because our money stories are
37:04
Speaker 2: all so different, and that's why you need to understand
37:06
Speaker 2: your partner's money story. So I know a situation and
37:10
Speaker 2: it's from our community again, and I've been talking to
37:12
Speaker 2: this person in my DMS and her partner hates when
37:16
Speaker 2: she spends money. It's not financial abuse. It's just because
37:19
Speaker 2: they grew up and they didn't have any money growing up,
37:21
Speaker 2: and they just are so worried that, you know, the
37:23
Speaker 2: extra groceries here and there are going to add up
37:25
Speaker 2: into them having really bad financial habits, and they're just
37:28
Speaker 2: trying not to go down that route. It's not because
37:30
Speaker 2: they're trying to control them. And that's something they need
37:32
Speaker 2: to work through genuinely because it's impacting their relationship and
37:36
Speaker 2: it's creating animosity and it's not a good thing. But
37:39
Speaker 2: that's not financial abuse. That's just somebody who's really stressed
37:43
Speaker 2: about money that needs to go through probably a fair
37:45
Speaker 2: bit of therapy to get through that. I think there's
37:48
Speaker 2: a lot of different red flags and they are all
37:50
Speaker 2: going to look different. But at the end of the day,
37:53
Speaker 2: if your confidence is waning, if you feel like you're
37:55
Speaker 2: not in control, if you feel like you're losing your
37:58
Speaker 2: independence in any way, to me, that is a big
38:00
Speaker 2: red flag of financial abuse. It's not a particular monetary value.
38:05
Speaker 2: It's not anything that I can articulate beyond that. And
38:08
Speaker 2: if you are in that situation, you can call our
38:11
Speaker 2: friends at one eight hundred respect on one eight hundred
38:13
Speaker 2: seven three seven seven three two or it's twenty twenty one.
38:17
Speaker 2: So they have a really great chat function on their
38:19
Speaker 2: website that you can have an anonymous chat with them,
38:22
Speaker 2: and we'll link all those details in the show notes.
38:24
Speaker 2: But I think it's really important to remember that this
38:26
Speaker 2: can actually impact anyone and for sure, and remember the
38:30
Speaker 2: money diary on the financial abuse episode that was actually
38:34
Speaker 2: between a mum and daughter. Wasn't between a husband and wife,
38:36
Speaker 2: or a boyfriend a girlfriend, or a girlfriend and girlfriend.
38:38
Speaker 2: It was actually between a mum and daughter where the
38:41
Speaker 2: mum was the financial abuser and she's had to go
38:44
Speaker 2: through years and years and years of therapy and she
38:47
Speaker 2: wasn't in a situation where money wasn't there. It was
38:50
Speaker 2: actually there was so much money there and there was
38:53
Speaker 2: a lot of control and your expectation around that money.
38:56
Speaker 2: So it goes both ways. It's not about not having
38:59
Speaker 2: enough sometime. So every relationship is different, and when it
39:02
Speaker 2: comes to financial abuse, it might just not be that
39:05
Speaker 2: stereotypical financial abuse relationship you might expect it to be.
39:08
Speaker 2: So I reckon that's a pretty good place to leave
39:11
Speaker 2: this episode.
39:11
Speaker 1: Georgia King absolutely V So I guess the main takeaway
39:14
Speaker 1: from today's show is keep the communication line open as
39:19
Speaker 1: open as you can. There's no one size fits all
39:22
Speaker 1: kind of way of doing things, and just make sure
39:25
Speaker 1: you look after yourself.
39:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And if you've got any questions, you can
39:29
Speaker 2: always reach out to the Shees on the Money team
39:30
Speaker 2: and we will always, always, always direct you in the
39:33
Speaker 2: right way to get you the help that you need,
39:35
Speaker 2: because sometimes it is really overwhelming to call when a
39:37
Speaker 2: hundred to respect and you just want to ask a friend,
39:40
Speaker 2: my friends, we are that person.
39:41
Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's leave it there.
39:43
Speaker 2: So just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge
39:45
Speaker 2: and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torris Street Island
39:48
Speaker 2: of People's. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the
39:51
Speaker 2: waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you
39:55
Speaker 2: for sharing and for caring for the land on which
39:57
Speaker 2: we are able to learn. We pay our respects to
39:59
Speaker 2: elders past and present, and we show our friendship and
40:01
Speaker 2: our kindness.
40:02
Speaker 1: And remember guys that the advice shared on She's on
40:05
Speaker 1: the Money is general in nature and does not consider
40:07
Speaker 1: your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for
40:11
Speaker 1: educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make
40:14
Speaker 1: an investment or a financial decision. And we promise. Victoria
40:17
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40:21
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40:25
Speaker 1: three two five seven AFSL three three nine one five one.
40:29
Speaker 2: Oh you got through all of that's done yourself. Fancy gene.
40:35
Speaker 2: I will see you next week
40:36
Speaker 1: For it we will deep die bye guys