Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / What Level Of Marital Conflict Is Healthy For Kids To Witness?

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What Level Of Marital Conflict Is Healthy For Kids To Witness? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom, show today, I am doing a subscriber, requested
• 0:13
  topic. What level of marital conflict
• 0:16
  is healthy for kids to witness. So this is like a question that
• 0:20
  I asked rather. I don't ask it.
• 0:23
  I get asked it and I will go into this in a little bit of
• 0:28
  detail as soon as you press on. Subscribe, everybody.
• 0:34
  Stickier more and more of these episodes.
• 0:36
  So this is a good way to make sure that you can hear all the
• 0:40
  20 that are available. And any upcoming ones, probably
• 0:44
  the one after this on couples and money, I will make
• 0:48
  subscriber only that one's going to be about subscriber asked me
• 0:54
  about the most common issues that I see couples come into
• 0:57
  when they have Financial issues, they come into session.
• 1:00
  What do they discussed? So, like a lot of, you know,
• 1:03
  spending versus say Savor what kind of personality types go
• 1:07
  along with what? Who manages the money is Juan,
• 1:10
  the priorities. What to spend on impulse control
• 1:13
  how people deal with joint versus, you know, non joint,
• 1:19
  budgeting Etc. So that's going to be a
• 1:21
  subscriber only episode. But now, let's get back to the
• 1:24
  topic at hand, which is what level of marital conflict is.
• 1:27
  Okay. So obviously I've discussed a
• 1:30
  lot that if you grow up in a home with a lot of conflict as I
• 1:33
  did, as many other, People do that is super toxic and that
• 1:37
  leads to a lot of cortisol release anxiety disorders,
• 1:40
  depression. A lot of issues and kids and I
• 1:43
  will link you to my articles on this and on how you shouldn't
• 1:47
  really delude yourself that your kids don't notice your conflict
• 1:50
  because they definitely do. And there's a whole tense
• 1:54
  atmosphere of the home and the kids develop a lot of problems
• 1:57
  because they're constantly walking on eggshells.
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  Trying not to upset anybody and hoping that today's going to be
• 2:03
  a good day much as they do in homes with alcohol or other
• 2:07
  substance use. So there doesn't have to be
• 2:09
  substance used for kids to grow up like adult children of
• 2:12
  Alcoholics. That's What I Call do children
• 2:15
  of dysfunctional families. So they have much the same
• 2:17
  issues. So, however, this person said
• 2:21
  and it's a good question, that others say, can you explain
• 2:24
  healthy conflict versus unhealthy conflict in front of
• 2:27
  kids? Don't they need to see some
• 2:29
  level of conflict to learn such as watching Mom and Dad.
• 2:32
  Disagreeing on where to eat or thing.
• 2:34
  A promise that was Broken. But then also see the conflict
• 2:37
  resolved. So yeah, sure.
• 2:39
  I mean, disagreeing on where to eat.
• 2:42
  Yeah, definitely. As long as you end up eating,
• 2:45
  right, I won't person doesn't end up like throwing something
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  at the other person saying fuck you.
• 2:49
  I don't want to eat with you anyway.
• 2:52
  Yeah, sure. Basically the Hallmark here, if
• 2:56
  you need like a rule of thumb is if you would have this fight
• 3:00
  with a friend in front of your kid, have it with your spouse.
• 3:04
  It's in front of your kid. So if like you would go back and
• 3:07
  forth with a close girlfriend, be like do you want Chinese no
• 3:11
  while okay. Do you want Mexican while?
• 3:12
  All right, you know, or like maybe like your sister just pick
• 3:16
  somebody that like you don't really fight terribly badly with
• 3:19
  but that, you know, you can also assert yourself with anything
• 3:22
  like that as fine, you know. But anything where it goes into
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  crazy dramatic threats, silent treatment people storming out of
• 3:32
  rooms, all, that's bad, you know.
• 3:34
  And if you want an if you fight like that, then you should be
• 3:37
  going to a couple's counselor if you have kids because they need
• 3:41
  to teach you how to interact differently.
• 3:43
  So that then when your kids see the different healthier
• 3:45
  interactions, they have something to model on currently
• 3:48
  you got nothing to teach them. So you know, don't teach them
• 3:51
  your terrible ways of resolving conflict instead, teach them.
• 3:55
  Nothing toys better to teach a kid.
• 3:56
  Nothing, when you got nothing to teach them, then to teach them
• 3:59
  something back. So what I think that this Person
• 4:05
  though may be talking about is the distinction between like
• 4:08
  being completely passive and avoidant and asserting yourself.
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  Certainly, assert yourself your, if your spouse is on to eat
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  Chinese, you said I want to eat Italian, nobody dies.
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  You know. So feel free to say I'd rather
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  have Italian sweetheart, you know, great.
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  And then if there are like well, no, we always have Italian, then
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  you guys can like resolve it again.
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  As long as nobody starts to get really out of control, raise
• 4:34
  their voice. Name, call and other toxic
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  fighting techniques, you know where you are scaring your kid
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  and you'll know if you fight too much if I'm your kid if they're
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  like stop fighting. Okay look it's super easy to
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  tell because most people are going to have a kid that says
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  stop fighting. Sometimes the kid is too scared
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  to say that, but if you're in that bucket, you probably know
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  it already and you don't need me to tell you.
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  But if your kid has ever said, stop fighting, you're fighting
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  too much. Because if it's just you going
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  back and forth a little bit on a certain yourselves, they're not
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  going to say that because there's really no fighting to be
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  had to be observed. So if you're if you're thinking
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  though that that means that one of you needs to agree with the
• 5:17
  other one, all the time on everything that isn't the case.
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  Like forget about this stupid one about the the food, I mean
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  it's a good example because you know, but most people can tell
• 5:27
  how that could be resolved. So what about an example, like
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  you say, I want to go out tonight and your spouse.
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  But I thought I was going out tonight and you say, but I told
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  you about this Mom's Night Out event like three times and he's
• 5:40
  like, but my boss isn't going to listen to about your mom's night
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  out of, and I have to show up for happy hour.
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  So then what if it's? So both of you are asserting
• 5:51
  yourselves. Hopefully, you can then resolve
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  it and one of you will say, all right, well, look how can we do
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  it? Can you go a little bit late?
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  Can I go a little bit early or one of you might be like, or I
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  find it's for your work. But next time, I really want to
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  go or and then the other one will be like, alright, well when
• 6:08
  you get home, I'll go whatever that that's a good thing for
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  kids to see cuz you're modeling what you would want them to do
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  with a sibling or friend, so you're figuring something out
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  together, right? So that makes sense, you're
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  figuring it out. But again if it goes into
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  anything where you're like, what the fuck, you know, you're
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  always doing this shit to me and we're let's say that you're not
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  a cursor, which really always doing this to me.
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  You don't value me at all. You don't You who I am for this
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  family? You don't value being a
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  stay-at-home mom. Do you?
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  You know why that is? It's because your mother know
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  your kid never needs to hear that.
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  They never need to hear it, that's not going to help them.
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  Learn anything about the world. Never going to help them learn
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  anything, except how to be in an unhappy marriage.
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  So if you are problem solving good, if you are character
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  assassinating. If you're saying anything bad
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  about each other's personalities as a whole, no kid never needs
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  to hear that. So it's never going.
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  To help them figure out how to do anything but also be a
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  below-the-belt toxic fighter. And if that is how you fight and
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  you have kids, you really ought to get to couples counseling,
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  immediately to figure it out so that you can, in fact, learn
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  different ways of interacting, and understand, which techniques
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  of fighting are actually pretty toxic.
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  And I'll tell you where you learned them right now.
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  Is that, he'll obviously, that's going to be your default if you
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  heard unfair fighting at home, that's what you're going to be
• 7:32
  doing now in your intimate. Chip.
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  No kidding. And it's not your fault.
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  It's what you learn but you got to get it under control.
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  You owe that to your kids. So again, so you do not have to
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  agree with everything that your spouse says.
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  Problem solving is good. Also, if they hurt your feelings
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  and they can and you can, you can say that.
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  So let's say you come downstairs in a dress, that is silver with
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  sequins and your husband is like, oh, like you look like,
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  you know, just COBOL. And he doesn't mean that you
• 8:07
  look fat, right? But like anyone will be like, oh
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  my God, he needs. I look like a sphere.
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  And so let's say that you can't help yourself and let's say that
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  you just get really red in the face and you tear up, right?
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  And you're like, what? Like what you hate.
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  Wow, that's not what and like, you're like even star touring,
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  you're like upset. And then your husband is going
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  to be like oh my God. I what I didn't mean that.
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  That was a stupid joke. I'm sorry.
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  That's from sorry. I didn't mean that you look
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  great. I'm sorry.
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  Right? So if your kid sees that they're
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  probably going to come over and be like, yeah, Mommy, it's okay.
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  I like your dress Mommy. Right.
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  So then that's like, not bad. That shows.
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  Sometimes you see something stupid.
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  Somebody's feelings, get hurt, you repair it.
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  However, what you do not show your kid, let's say you come
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  downstairs, your dress, in your dress, and your husband
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  purposefully, because you guys have a very bad Dynamic, says
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  you look like a fucking disco ball in that dress?
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  I told you, you shouldn't have had that extra bread yesterday
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  at dinner. You can never needs to hear that
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  kind of stuff. So yet again, what are we
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  saying? Anything that is mean anything,
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  that is personal anything that attacked on character name,
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  calling things that go beyond the topic at hand.
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  So, if your dinner conversation devolves into and this is what
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  you did on our very first date, you didn't let me pick the
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  restaurant, and that's how I should have known not to get
• 9:32
  involved with you kid. Never needs to hear that.
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  So, basically what we're saying is at anything that could happen
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  with a friend, a misunderstanding a disagreement
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  that is then rectified a compromise.
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  Those sorts of things are fighting that your kid can hear
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  anything. That is halau Dad stressful.
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  Anything that you would not hey how about this one?
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  Anything you wouldn't do in front of a friend.
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  Don't do in front of your kid. If people just literally
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  followed that rule then like they wouldn't I kept their kids
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  but it's really really hard because you're always feeling
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  under attack at when you're in a dysfunctional marriage and like
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  the other person is about to or just did hurt you and then
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  you're going to defend yourself and it's this crazy stressful
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  conflictual back and forth, you know?
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  So then your judgment goes on Hiatus and you don't have your
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  judgment anymore. You start to say terrible things
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  to each other in front of your kids.
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  And you forget that your kids are absorbing literally all of
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  it and learning how to talk. Talk to their partners and later
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  their own kids. That's a good sobering thought.
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  If you're saying to your husband, you're such a fucking
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  asshole or whatever and we should people do literally in
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  the middle, couples counseling. And you know like what when you
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  hear one day your kids saying the same thing to their spouse
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  or to their kid even worse. Then you're going to know where
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  it came from and you're going to be very ashamed.
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  And so, so that you don't consign yourself to that feat,
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  think about now the importance of going to counseling and
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  figuring out how to fight differently with your spouse and
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  for some of you, if you should really be in your relationship
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  because there are some relationships that are just so
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  fraught with toxicity that you can't get out.
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  Well, the of the pattern, and there's just so much water under
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  the bridge. Your partner doesn't want to go
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  to counseling. Nobody really can Kind of move
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  out of this pattern and the whole relationship isn't isn't
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  really going to work. So you need to kind of figure
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  that out and you owe it to your kid to figure that out.
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  So hopefully this cleared up a lot about what normal conflict
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  could be, which is stuff that you would not be ashamed to have
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  videotaped and shown to people that you work with for example
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  and toxic conflict, which is stuff that you would be ashamed
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  to have your co-workers or your friends.
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  See now Now if there's also the fact like not everything is
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  couples counseling you yourself. If you do a deep dive, maybe the
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  problem. And so you could have come from
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  a home where there was a lot of fighting and you're fighting
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  gets out of control. You are the one that gets out of
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  control. Your spouse may not be perfect.
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  Your spouse may be very frustrating, but you may know
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  that there that what your fights look like, look a lot more.
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  Like, what? You grew up with and let's say
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  what Spouse grew up with, in this case, individual counseling
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  can really help you alone, figure out how to self-regulate
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  and get your levels of anger down.
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  So that you don't continuously say, impulsive things,
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  particularly in front of the children that you regret.
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  Also, you may say I'm on the opposite end.
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  I'm somebody who cannot even say, I would rather get Italian
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  food. And then goes to my grave, never
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  having asserted myself at all. That is something that That
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  obviously individual therapy can work on a lot better than
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  couples counseling, because you're focusing on why you
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  yourself find it. So threatening and intimidating,
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  the very idea of saying something that goes against
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  somebody else. And so in this case, what you're
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  worried about isn't that your children aren't learning about
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  appropriate conflict? You are worrying that your
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  children are not learning to assert themselves because you as
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  their role model or one of their role models are not asserting
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  yourself. So counseling and introspection
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  and just really practice can help with asserting yourself and
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  figuring out who you are and what you want, and what you
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  need. And you know, if you grew up in
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  a home with a dysfunctional parent that, never let you
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  figure out what you need and what you want, then this is all
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  weird to you to even think of the idea that you could want
• 13:58
  something or you could have a different opinion from somebody
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  else. So think deeply about this.
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  Sort of marriage that you want your kids to see in any of this
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  stuff, you want them to see a marriage where people work
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  together where people can assert themselves and show their
• 14:14
  opinions where there is Grace and forgiveness on both sides,
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  where there is affection where a fight, a little fight.
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  Let's say it is just the disco ball thing where like you would
• 14:28
  forgive your husband for mistakenly, implying that you
• 14:32
  look like for spherical. Disco ball in your dress, you
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  know? And you would say it's okay.
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  I know that you didn't mean to when you calm down, right?
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  So you also do not want, you know, to show your kids a
• 14:47
  dynamic where somebody is always apologizing, and never getting
• 14:51
  forgiven and then there's like this Litany of complaints
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  against them as I said before, that's a pretty toxic way to
• 14:57
  fight. So in the disco, ball dress
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  situation, you would not want to say to your husband in front of
• 15:04
  the children. Aaron or really ever, you know,
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  remember this toxic fighting stuff, it's not just what you
• 15:08
  don't want to do in front of your kid.
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  That's what you don't want to do.
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  So your kids could be out of the house, don't do it then either,
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  you know like learn how not to do it and as I said that's
• 15:17
  couples counseling, it's hard work.
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  It's practice. It's reading.
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  It's, it's figuring out that like, there's a whole different
• 15:22
  way of interacting that you probably didn't learn.
• 15:25
  So, anyway, you wouldn't want your kid to see you.
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  Say, yeah, well, you're always insulting me, you're always
• 15:31
  hurting my feelings, you're so insensitive.
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  None of this shit. Inappropriate see in front of
• 15:36
  your kids, and it's just not. It makes them feel like trash.
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  They're hearing it, they're identifying with the person
• 15:41
  that's being berated, they are identifying with you, the
• 15:44
  supposed victim of this attack. They don't know who to identify
• 15:48
  with their cortisol is racing through their brain, they feel
• 15:51
  like garbage, right? So always err on the side of
• 15:54
  less conflict in front of your kids.
• 15:56
  It's a high-level problem to have as anybody who grew up in a
• 15:59
  very conflictual home can attest to.
• 16:01
  It's a high-level problem to have to worry about About giving
• 16:05
  letting your kids see, more conflicts, they learn how to
• 16:07
  resolve it, that's a better problem to have, and we
• 16:11
  shouldn't even really call it that.
• 16:12
  We should just say, why should I assert myself in front of my
• 16:16
  kids so that they can see that? You know, two people in a
• 16:20
  relationship, both have opinions and can problem solve sure.
• 16:24
  Yes that you should do. But anything that really smacks
• 16:27
  to your kid of fighting, you don't need to fight in front of
• 16:30
  your kids for any reason. They don't need to learn how to
• 16:32
  fight they eat if things. Crop up which they may then try
• 16:36
  to resolve them quickly, you know.
• 16:39
  And in a way that you would be proud of if it was later,
• 16:43
  broadcasted live, you know, to all your friends and family
• 16:47
  because and it in a way that you would be proud if your children
• 16:52
  replicated with their own significant others later on.
• 16:55
  And so you want to be confident and you want to be gracious and
• 17:00
  you want to be kind and if you can do those things then your
• 17:03
  child. We'll be learning positive,
• 17:05
  communication and relationship skills from you and you can be
• 17:09
  proud of that. And again, Counseling of all
• 17:11
  kinds both individual and couples can help with this.
• 17:14
  Especially, if you did not learn it at home, all right, so, great
• 17:18
  question. And thanks so much for the
• 17:20
  question. Hope, everybody got something
• 17:22
  out of this and please. Again, subscribe.
• 17:24
  If these are adding value to your life and I'll talk to
• 17:27
  everybody soon.