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Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Peter Vogel, vPromos · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  John Diether: Hello and welcome to another edition of Loyalty Live on Loyalty 360.
• 0:09
  John Diether: I'm John Diether.
• 0:10
  John Diether: In this series, we talk to the leaders in our industry about the technology, trends and best practices that drive unique experiences, engagement and, most importantly, customer loyalty.
• 0:23
  John Diether: Loyalty Live gives us deeper insight into the state of customer loyalty.
• 0:28
  John Diether: We use these sessions to drive pragmatic, evidence-based solutions to the challenges brands face and identify opportunities to advance the field.
• 0:39
  John Diether: Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Peter Vogel, Chief Revenue Officer at vPromos.
• 0:46
  John Diether: Peter, welcome to Loyalty Live.
• 0:50
  Peter Vogel: Thank you very much.
• 0:51
  Peter Vogel: Super excited to be on.
• 0:52
  Peter Vogel: I've been a fan of Mark and the organization for, I think, almost 10 years, when I first heard about it, so I'm excited to be on with you.
• 1:01
  John Diether: Awesome.
• 1:01
  John Diether: It's nice to meet a fan face to face.
• 1:04
  John Diether: Peter, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how that led to your current position at vPromos and what actually you do for the firm?
• 1:15
  Peter Vogel: Sure, so I'll start with my role there.
• 1:16
  Peter Vogel: So, as you mentioned, I'm the Chief Revenue Officer and they brought me on about six months ago and my primary responsibility is to bring up our enterprise kind of client roster.
• 1:28
  Peter Vogel: So I'm out there right now targeting all of tier one, tier two, restaurant and retail so the very biggest chains in the world with hundreds or thousands of locations.
• 1:37
  Peter Vogel: Those are our primary prospects and customers and they brought me on because in my background I have been a co-founder of several loyalty companies.
• 1:49
  Peter Vogel: I've been brought on by several companies to help them grow at a very early stage.
• 1:55
  Peter Vogel: One of the last companies I was a part of was one of the first card linked networks ever, called Empire, and that was back in around 2013, 14, 15.
• 2:04
  Peter Vogel: We built the first ever card linked network where, instead of just showing card linked offers to your own audience, we went out and partnered with people like RetailMeNot, Yelp, Coupons.
• 2:17
  Peter Vogel: com, Rewards Network a lot of the biggest kind of organizations out there with loyalty programs and we built that up.
• 2:27
  Peter Vogel: It got acquired by a company called Augeo, which renamed it FIGI, and then it got acquired by Chase.
• 2:33
  Peter Vogel: So that company that I helped co-found got acquired by Chase and we also worked with a lot of Fortune 500 brands at that company.
• 2:41
  Peter Vogel: So what I'm bringing to vPromos is the experience that I've had with a lot of these tier one and two clients and also in overall strategy of building up a company from really startup phase to exit.
• 2:57
  John Diether: Well, for folks who might not be familiar with vPromos, what exactly does the company do for your clients in order to support brand loyalty?
• 3:09
  Peter Vogel: Great question.
• 3:09
  Peter Vogel: So the thing that makes us most unique, you know.
• 3:13
  Peter Vogel: As you know, there's tons of loyalty companies out there who can run programs.
• 3:16
  Peter Vogel: One of the things we do, though, is we do all of our tracking through the terminal actually.
• 3:21
  Peter Vogel: So the payment terminals we work with, the Android payment terminals primarily.
• 3:26
  Peter Vogel: Some of the big makers are people like Pax, and in Genneco and Verifone, and what
• 3:32
  Peter Vogel: our program does.
• 3:33
  Peter Vogel: It's different is it doesn't rely on asking the member for their phone number every single time.
• 3:38
  Peter Vogel: You know typical loyalty program.
• 3:40
  Peter Vogel: You go in and they ask oh, are you a member with your phone number?
• 3:43
  Peter Vogel: Half the time they forget, half the time you forget you're in a program.
• 3:47
  Peter Vogel: So what our program does is it uses the terminal as a tool to enroll you.
• 3:52
  Peter Vogel: So when you stick your card in, the terminal will say hey, it looks like we don't recognize this credit card.
• 3:57
  Peter Vogel: Would you like to add this to your free loyalty program and start earning rewards?
• 4:01
  Peter Vogel: Today?
• 4:03
  Peter Vogel: It creates a token.
• 4:03
  Peter Vogel: It does ask for a phone number at that point and you click yes, I want to join.
• 4:08
  Peter Vogel: And then it also asks you if you want to get text messages with special offers, bonuses, etc.
• 4:14
  Peter Vogel: So you're getting opted in TCPA compliantly at the terminal when you're enrolling, which is very unique, and then every time you come back, as long as you use that same card, the counterperson doesn't have to ask what your phone number.
• 4:28
  Peter Vogel: Are you in the program?
• 4:29
  Peter Vogel: The terminal recognizes you every single time, gives you rewards every single time and if you ever use a different card, it'll just say, hey, it looks like we don't have this card in file.
• 4:38
  Peter Vogel: Would you like to add it to your loyalty program account, and then you can have 10 cards on the same account if you want.
• 4:44
  Peter Vogel: Everything is automated.
• 4:46
  Peter Vogel: There's no reliance on the counterperson anymore, so it's fast, simple and seamless for the consumer.
• 4:52
  John Diether: Peter, can you tell us what the main challenges are that your loyalty software is looking to solve?
• 4:59
  Peter Vogel: Sure, the challenge is one getting people to enroll in your program first of all, and that relies on the counterperson saying every time hey, are you in our program yet Can I tell you about it?
• 5:08
  Peter Vogel: Or every time someone pays, the terminal will just say, hey, it looks like you're not in our program, would you like to join?
• 5:14
  Peter Vogel: So it increases enrollment.
• 5:16
  Peter Vogel: It also helps.
• 5:17
  Peter Vogel: Another problem programs have is missed transactions.
• 5:20
  Peter Vogel: So imagine all the time someone goes into a store or restaurant they don't even remember their private program.
• 5:26
  Peter Vogel: I mean, these days most of us are probably in like 20, 30 loyalty programs.
• 5:30
  Peter Vogel: You may not remember.
• 5:32
  Peter Vogel: You have to tell them your phone number and that transaction gets missed.
• 5:35
  Peter Vogel: So our technology eliminates that.
• 5:39
  Peter Vogel: And the last thing our technology does and this is like a key thing these days, especially for compliance If you text people without their permission and your business and you do that willfully, you can be fined up to $1,500 per text.
• 5:51
  Peter Vogel: So in a class action lawsuit you could be fined for millions of dollars if you have a savvy enough lawyer out there who realizes you know what a company is doing.
• 6:00
  Peter Vogel: So we a huge part of what we do is we make it so that a loyalty program gets people opted in at the terminal when they're joining.
• 6:10
  Peter Vogel: So we get it legally complyingly opted in and then from that point forward the brand has permission to text that person special offers, birthday offers, you know, maybe an item, specific special, anything they want to.
• 6:25
  Peter Vogel: And so they've essentially created a whole new communication mechanism which before this all those people were anonymous to them.
• 6:35
  Peter Vogel: They couldn't communicate with them, but now they essentially own that customer base so they can reach out to them anytime they want to.
• 6:41
  John Diether: Peter, something we always like to understand from our members is your definition of customer loyalty.
• 6:48
  John Diether: How do you see it from from your purview?
• 6:52
  John Diether: What is customer loyalty?
• 6:55
  John Diether: What does it mean to your organization?
• 6:59
  Peter Vogel: I mean we really look at the dollars and cents behind it because we're charging, you know, a fee for companies to use our product.
• 7:06
  Peter Vogel: So we always look at ROI and we always have to show, you know, mathematically, not just the warm and cushy of people love the program, but we like to show mathematically.
• 7:18
  Peter Vogel: I mean we're looking at things like how much does, what's the average order value of a member versus, what's the average order value of a nonmember, what's the average frequency of purchases for a member versus a nonmember?
• 7:29
  Peter Vogel: And then we can go in and see if we're really producing loyalty, if we're showing those people in the program, if we're changing their behavior, then we view that as kind of a sign of loyalty that we've made an impact on their purchasing behavior.
• 7:45
  Peter Vogel: Not just quantity but frequency.
• 7:49
  Peter Vogel: Of course we love to see people recommending the program and social media, things like that.
• 7:53
  Peter Vogel: That's just a little harder to quantify.
• 7:55
  Peter Vogel: So it's we really like to look at a very mathematical ROI calculation that takes into account how much rewards have been given out and what did that cost the company.
• 8:06
  Peter Vogel: And also, what is the company paying for the management cost of the program, for the you know a company like ours what's that cost, and then what's the lift we drive?
• 8:16
  Peter Vogel: And we can equate that essentially to increase customer loyalty and X amount of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, etc.
• 8:26
  John Diether: Now, with the card linked programs, we've noticed that customer enrollment and onboarding can be difficult.
• 8:33
  John Diether: It presents its own challenges.
• 8:35
  John Diether: What kind of challenges do you see brands facing with the enrollment, the onboarding, and what are some best practices that they can do to overcome that?
• 8:48
  Peter Vogel: Well, the biggest problem with most loyalty programs and this is literally what we're trying to solve with our technology is you're reliant on usually it's a counterperson having to ask are you in the program?
• 9:01
  Peter Vogel: The best practices are always to train all your employees as extensively as possible so they understand what the loyalty program is and they're comfortable talking about it.
• 9:10
  Peter Vogel: That's one of the things we've heard in talking to counter people is they're often not even that clear on all the benefits of the program or don't feel comfortable answering questions, so they don't really want to bring it up.
• 9:22
  Peter Vogel: They also sometimes feel like they're being too salesy and they're just trying to serve the customer.
• 9:29
  Peter Vogel: It's a lot of education for staff, but the solution that we obviously recommend is by using our technology.
• 9:43
  Peter Vogel: They can eliminate that problem, because now the terminal is going to ask every single time would you like to join the loyalty program?
• 9:49
  Peter Vogel: Counter person can just be there to answer questions.
• 9:54
  Peter Vogel: Someone will say oh, what's your loyalty program?
• 9:56
  Peter Vogel: Like?
• 9:56
  Peter Vogel: The counterperson doesn't have to initiate it.
• 9:58
  Peter Vogel: They don't have to create a sale to get someone to join.
• 10:02
  Peter Vogel: They can just answer questions, which for a lot of people is more comfortable than trying to sell something to someone else.
• 10:09
  Peter Vogel: I think I'll leave it at that.
• 10:14
  Peter Vogel: The other biggest challenge is the actual payment terminal technology.
• 10:22
  Peter Vogel: That's something that we've been about 10 years ahead of this whole time, but we're very excited for next year because all of the big companies are upgrading out of these Android terminals, and that's where our technology works perfectly.
• 10:37
  Peter Vogel: It's already embedded with a lot of these huge payment terminals.
• 10:41
  Peter Vogel: It's a really exciting year for us that we can actually finally start selling to people who can use the technology.
• 10:48
  Peter Vogel: We've been trying to sell this to people who didn't have the right terminals yet, but we're finally to that place.
• 10:54
  Peter Vogel: Whereas it's happening this year, next year, 2025.
• 10:58
  John Diether: Thank you.
• 10:59
  John Diether: Switching over to compliance now.
• 11:01
  John Diether: We just published a study here at Loyalty 360 that said that 70% of brands feel that they're more focused on data and compliance and privacy over the past year and a half than they've been before.
• 11:19
  John Diether: What do you think specifically in the realm of the privacy that brands are facing right now?
• 11:29
  John Diether: What kind of challenges.
• 11:34
  Peter Vogel: To bring that back to the part of compliance that we're involved in, one of the biggest challenges brands have and we've heard this from a lot of them a lot of the brands don't the only way they can opt in people to get messages from them usually is on their website.
• 11:51
  Peter Vogel: You have to drive someone from a location a restaurant, a store, et cetera to go home and remember and then go onto the website and that's a big hurdle.
• 12:03
  Peter Vogel: You're going to lose whatever 90%, 95% of people.
• 12:06
  Peter Vogel: What that means is a lot of companies never get a sizable audience of people that they can text and they can never take advantage of that medium.
• 12:18
  Peter Vogel: Texting has become a huge thing now with I think the latest stat was 80% of people open every text they get, whereas something like 15% to 20% of people open emails.
• 12:29
  Peter Vogel: You can literally get four to five times as much exposure if you can build that text audience, that mobile audience.
• 12:37
  Peter Vogel: But you have to figure out a way to get them opted in.
• 12:39
  Peter Vogel: We think doing it right at the terminal when they're joining is the smartest, most efficient way to do it, because you're most excited about the program right when you join.
• 12:49
  Peter Vogel: It has all upside.
• 12:51
  Peter Vogel: You're joining because you see the ability to start getting free stuff, you're going to take advantage of whatever you can at that moment.
• 12:58
  Peter Vogel: We think that's the way to make sure you're compliant and you get a large enough audience to text.
• 13:05
  Peter Vogel: Because what's happening now?
• 13:06
  Peter Vogel: Most people just don't have an audience to text because they can't get them opted in.
• 13:11
  Peter Vogel: They're afraid to text them, which is smart because it can be pretty hefty, fine.
• 13:15
  Peter Vogel: But that's one of the biggest issues we see these loyalty programs facing.
• 13:21
  John Diether: Now, you had mentioned earlier ROI when it comes to loyalty programs.
• 13:28
  John Diether: How do they calculate ROI?
• 13:31
  John Diether: What are some ways that you suggest some metrics, some KPIs that can be measured to evaluate the program?
• 13:40
  Peter Vogel: So most depending on how the loyalty program is set up.
• 13:44
  Peter Vogel: We're lucky with some of our big partners.
• 13:46
  Peter Vogel: We have the ability to all the transactions flow through, whether they're members or not members, through our platform essentially.
• 13:55
  Peter Vogel: So we see at thousands and you know 6,000 plus locations right now.
• 14:00
  Peter Vogel: We see all of the spending that happens from nonmembers and all the spending from members.
• 14:04
  Peter Vogel: So it's very easy for us to see what's the average order size.
• 14:07
  Peter Vogel: So if the average member is spending, you know, $85 and the average nonmember spending $50, then we can see that you're looking at $35 out of $50.
• 14:18
  Peter Vogel: That's about a 60% lift.
• 14:20
  Peter Vogel: So you're getting a 60% lift on every purchase from a member and you can essentially calculate that out to see what that lift equates to.
• 14:29
  Peter Vogel: And let's just do some simple math and say, say the lift equates to a million dollars, and then you can look and see during that same time.
• 14:37
  Peter Vogel: And when I say lift, it's the actual difference between what is spent by members and nonmembers.
• 14:42
  Peter Vogel: So it's not just the member spend, it's the incremental spend.
• 14:47
  Peter Vogel: So you look at that, say there's a million dollars incremental spend.
• 14:50
  Peter Vogel: Then you can look at maybe the company has spent $75,000 on rewards and then maybe they're paying a company, you know, $25,000 during that time period for management, so it's $100,000.
• 15:06
  Peter Vogel: So we would look at that and say we've essentially created a 10X ROI.
• 15:11
  Peter Vogel: If they're getting 10X what it costs them to run the program, and both the management and the rewards are giving out.
• 15:18
  Peter Vogel: So that's something that we feel confident in that they can take to their finance team and their C level and show them hey, this isn't just like a feel good, everyone has a loyalty program, so we have to do it.
• 15:30
  Peter Vogel: It actually does something right.
• 15:32
  Peter Vogel: We can actually show you financially the lift and how much it costs us to build that lift and therefore calculate the ROI.
• 15:41
  John Diether: Thank you.
• 15:41
  John Diether: You know another thing that we've noticed with loyalty programs, especially for restaurants and retailers, that many of the programs are starting to look similar, or at least consumers perceive them as working the same way.
• 16:00
  John Diether: How do you recommend that a let's say, your retailer restaurant to make your program stand out?
• 16:09
  John Diether: How can you make it unique, Again a backdrop of thousands of other programs?
• 16:17
  Peter Vogel: You know, I know this is kind of a key word that people throw around a lot, but I think it really does matter.
• 16:22
  Peter Vogel: Personalization Everyone has loyalty programs where you spend X, you get Y, you save up certain points and you get something.
• 16:32
  Peter Vogel: If you have a type of product where you can give someone an upgrade or a service that's very compelling to them like airplanes or hotels, travel programs are best at this just because you have the longest experience with someone, so like an upgrade like that really matters.
• 16:51
  Peter Vogel: That's not as easy for Chick-fil-A to get an upgrade.
• 16:58
  Peter Vogel: You can give someone more points back.
• 17:01
  Peter Vogel: You can give them maybe first access or to special items in the menu, but it's not quite the same.
• 17:07
  Peter Vogel: But you can do personalization where if you and most it depends on the program we do see skew level data through our program so we can make very specific suggestions that someone gets a free something if they buy something because we know they bought that the last three times and give people benefits tied to things they already have shown interested in and you know they like and that's going to make them more excited and want to take advantage of it than just a generic offer.
• 17:43
  Peter Vogel: I mean if you're giving them something that you know they already like and you can track that through the loyalty program.
• 17:48
  Peter Vogel: So some levels of personalization.
• 17:51
  Peter Vogel: And there's companies that do it, like AMEX, do it in a much bigger way where they give people like gourmet cooking classes if they know they're interested in that, or you can opt in to get information about seeing famous singers backstage or things like that.
• 18:08
  Peter Vogel: It's hard for a lot of sale like a QSR brand to do something like that, but you can still do a lot of personalization and I think that can set someone apart.
• 18:21
  John Diether: Now, in terms of the technology which I know you're very familiar with, what do you predict is going to be the next big thing with technology, the next opportunity for brands?
• 18:31
  John Diether: Where we headed and what excites?
• 18:34
  Peter Vogel: you about that?
• 18:35
  Peter Vogel: Well, what I said earlier is one of the reasons I joined this company six months ago is, after doing some research, I realized that the payments industry is kind of at an inflection point where a lot of people have these older payment terminals and all they're good for is putting your card through.
• 18:54
  Peter Vogel: That's all they do.
• 18:56
  Peter Vogel: All the new terminals just like you have Android on your phone, you have an operating system like that.
• 19:00
  Peter Vogel: All the new terminals are smart terminals, which means they have access to lots and lots of different features and apps that are just kind of like available to those terminals.
• 19:11
  Peter Vogel: So those terminals, they've moved so far beyond just being a place to pay.
• 19:15
  Peter Vogel: Now they can manage gift cards for you straight through the terminal.
• 19:19
  Peter Vogel: You can institute loyalty programs, you could accept cryptocurrency if you wanted to, you could set up a buy now, pay later program and have some way to determine someone's credit worthiness, and all that can just happen right at the terminal.
• 19:32
  Peter Vogel: You don't need any extra technology, and I always say we're at this inflection point that 2024 and 25 are going to be the years that all of these big, big chains like the McDonald's, the Walgreens, et cetera, are going to be upgrading to these new smart terminals and that's going to allow them to embrace technologies like ours, other technologies there's lots of things popping up that can make someone's payment process easier.
• 20:03
  John Diether: Well going forward, let's say in 2024,.
• 20:05
  John Diether: Is there anything that vPromos is specifically concentrating on?
• 20:12
  John Diether: What do you think is going to be the main focus in the loyalty arena for your company in the year ahead?
• 20:21
  Peter Vogel: We're making a really big push to get out there, targeting a lot more QSR and retail.
• 20:27
  Peter Vogel: So we're going to a lot of the big events.
• 20:29
  Peter Vogel: I'll be at the Loyalty3 60 event in a couple of weeks.
• 20:34
  Peter Vogel: Next year we're going to the QSR Evolution, there's another one called CRMC which does a big retail conference, and there's a handful of others.
• 20:44
  Peter Vogel: But we're going to be going out there.
• 20:46
  Peter Vogel: We've never really done much thought leadership.
• 20:50
  Peter Vogel: We had never really gone to many conferences.
• 20:52
  Peter Vogel: We've never gotten our name out there.
• 20:53
  Peter Vogel: So 2024 is the year where we want to make vPromos a known brand in the industry and educate the whole industry about what we do, what our technology is, and then, as the industry is maturing and adopting all these Android terminals, we want to be at the forefront of people's minds.
• 21:14
  Peter Vogel: So 2024 for us is all about exposure, building our brand and thought leadership.
• 21:24
  John Diether: Excellent.
• 21:24
  John Diether: Now we've reached the rapid fire question.
• 21:27
  John Diether: Think of it as the lightning round of our interview.
• 21:32
  John Diether: Most people think it's one of the more popular features.
• 21:36
  John Diether: I'm just going to give you some rapid fire questions to answer with.
• 21:40
  John Diether: The first thing that comes to mind Are there wrong answers?
• 21:43
  John Diether: No, at least I want you to know yeah, it's not a personality test.
• 21:50
  John Diether: What is your favorite word?
• 21:52
  John Diether: Peter: Opportunity.
• 21:56
  John Diether: John: What about your least favorite word?
• 22:04
  Peter Vogel: Can't as in like we can't do that.
• 22:09
  John Diether: Got it.
• 22:09
  John Diether: What excites you?
• 22:13
  Peter Vogel: Well, I just went through the whole explanation of next year.
• 22:16
  Peter Vogel: For us, we're very excited about 2024.
• 22:18
  Peter Vogel: We think this.
• 22:19
  Peter Vogel: You know, vPromos has been around since 2009 and our technology has literally been 10 years ahead of its time this whole time.
• 22:28
  Peter Vogel: So we're finally like we feel like we can compete in the marketplace and have a product everyone can use now.
• 22:35
  John Diether: And what do you on the flip side?
• 22:36
  John Diether: What do you find tiresome?
• 22:42
  Peter Vogel: Negativity or the lack of solution, finding people who critique everything versus coming up with solutions to solve those problems.
• 22:55
  John Diether: And what famous person, living or dead, would you like to invite to dinner?
• 23:01
  Peter Vogel: Well, I'm a long time reader and writer, so I think I'm going to have to say Ernest Hemingway, just based on his wild, crazy life.
• 23:12
  John Diether: What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
• 23:22
  Peter Vogel: You know I've always been fascinated by standup comedy.
• 23:24
  Peter Vogel: There's probably a reason I'm not a standup comic, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't want to be that, and I've actually even.
• 23:32
  Peter Vogel: There's some things you can do locally in everyone's area where you can join clubs and kind of learn standup comedy, and I've always been intrigued to do that because I feel like it's such a hard thing to do that it's like it's intriguing to me that it's so hard to get up there and make people laugh.
• 23:49
  John Diether: Okay, so what profession would you avoid?
• 23:53
  Peter Vogel: Finally.
• 23:53
  Peter Vogel: So this is the exact opposite.
• 23:55
  Peter Vogel: I think, yeah, it's not this sounds mean, but probably dentist.
• 23:59
  Peter Vogel: Just because I don't like going to the dentist very much and I couldn't imagine having to drill out people's mouths all the time.
• 24:09
  Peter Vogel: That seems kind of horrifying to me.
• 24:12
  John Diether: And who inspired you to become the person you are today.
• 24:20
  Peter Vogel: Well, it's probably cliche, but probably my mom was always.
• 24:24
  Peter Vogel: She was a university professor, then ended up going back to law school when I went to college and got her law degree and kind of started a whole second career and has just always been a very educated, well-read person and I got my love of books and my mom always had a huge library, so I was lucky enough to be able to have access to lots and lots of books and always see other people around me reading, which I think reading is still a big hobby for me, so I think that's that's an important was an important part of my kind of intellectual development.
• 25:00
  John Diether: And what do you typically think about at the end of the day?
• 25:06
  Peter Vogel: You know I'd love to say I think about everything I'm grateful for every night, but that's I think that's something that I want to do.
• 25:12
  Peter Vogel: I think more realistically, like most other people.
• 25:17
  Peter Vogel: All the meetings and calls I know are happening in the next, you know, next day kind of run through my head and you know it's hard not to think of that as you're kind of planning for the day falling asleep.
• 25:32
  John Diether: And how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
• 25:41
  Peter Vogel: Let's see.
• 25:41
  Peter Vogel: I'd probably want to be remembered as a kind of a kind, thoughtful person that was very generous.
• 25:51
  John Diether: Well, thank you for being a good sport on all those, peter, and thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 25:57
  John Diether: It was great hearing your perspective on customer loyalty and we look forward to staying in touch, learning more about what VPromos is doing over the next year.
• 26:10
  Peter Vogel: Awesome.
• 26:11
  Peter Vogel: Well, thank you very much for having me and I'm psyched to see you all on your team in Denver, here at the Loyalty 360 conference coming up.
• 26:20
  John Diether: Yes, certainly.
• 26:20
  John Diether: See you then, and we'll be back soon with another edition of Loyalty Live for Loyalty 360.
• 26:28
  John Diether: I'm John Diether.
• 26:28
  John Diether: Thank you for watching.
• 26:29
  John Diether: Thank you for watching.