Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / The Legacy Built on Resilience: Overcoming Hardship with Purpose | Freddie Owens

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The Legacy Built on Resilience: Overcoming Hardship with Purpose | Freddie Owens · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

• 0:00
  I grew up with very high crime area.
• 0:02
  And unfortunately my mom
• 0:04
  became an addict, that was a tough time for me, seeing her battling those demons on a day in and day out.
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  You learn a lot more from failure than you do from success.
• 0:13
  There's things that can pull you off course
• 0:16
  Being involved in things that you shouldn't be involved in.
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  I always just told myself like I'm not gonna be that guy.
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  For me it's just minimizing those distractions and removing yourself from them as quickly as possible.
• 0:28
  How hard are you willing to fight from it, fight for it, and are you a person who's going to exhaust every resource possible to to get there?
• 0:52
  Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
• 0:56
  My name is Rick Meekins.
• 0:56
  I am your host as usual.
• 0:58
  And in our studio, we have Freddie Owens.
• 1:00
  How are you today, sir?
• 1:01
  I'm doing great, man.
• 1:02
  Doing great.
• 1:03
  excited to be here and I appreciate you having me on.
• 1:06
  for sure.
• 1:06
  I'm excited to do the show.
• 1:07
  This is going to be absolutely amazing.
• 1:09
  Your journey is going to be one that people are just going to be sitting on the edge of their seats going, All right, fantastic.
• 1:15
  And folks, we would love it if you would like, subscribe, and hit the bell so that you can get updates every time we drop a new episode.
• 1:21
  And without further ado, let's get to it.
• 1:23
  So Freddy.
• 1:24
  Give our audience a little bit of taste of who you are, what you do, why you do it.
• 1:28
  Alright, who I am.
• 1:29
  All right.
• 1:29
  I am a father.
• 1:31
  I am an author.
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  I am a coach.
• 1:34
  a husband.
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  And the oldest of ten, originally from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
• 1:39
  and you know, basketball has has sort of been the center, center of my life up until you know, my son was born and I got married.
• 1:47
  And yeah, man, it's it's been quite the journey.
• 1:50
  know, coming out of the inner city of Milwaukee, been around the game of of basketball as long as I can remember.
• 1:56
  you know, walking to the different local parks throughout the city with my dad and watching him play and, you know, me dribbling the ball in the sideline and, you know, just
• 2:05
  became something that turned into a passion as I got older.
• 2:08
  I've been able to sort of ride the wave and and and play the game that I love playing and and it's taken me to some some great
• 2:15
  places throughout the world and I've been able to experience a lot of cool things and meet a lot of cool people and build a lot of important and strong relationships.
• 2:23
  so yeah, man, I you know, was able to get out of the inner city of Milwaukee, area that was, you know, pretty high crime and, you know, a lot of poverty, and was able to sort of
• 2:33
  forge a path for myself by getting a full scholarship to play at our state school, the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
• 2:40
  Nice.
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  yeah, man, it is just a dream come true.
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  I was able to play in front of 17,000 fans every home game and and travel the world and career took me over to Europe to play professionally and And then after my playing days
• 2:54
  were over, got into coaching.
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  you know.
• 2:56
  Was able to stay close to the game and and impact youth and you know, just be around the game and see it from a different lens you know, as far as how life and sports kind of
• 3:05
  intersect and and you know, being having to be resilient and and fight through things and and figure things out.
• 3:11
  And and yeah, man, I'm I'm just blessed.
• 3:13
  So, you know, after coaching for 20 years, my wife got pregnant with our first and only kid.
• 3:19
  And, you know, for me, it was like, all right, you know, it was time to make a pivot.
• 3:23
  being in the coaching world, and you don't you don't have a lot of time to yourself or a lot of time to spend around family because a profession demands, you know, a lot of your
• 3:32
  time.
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  So I got out of coaching because I didn't want to miss those milestone moments with my my son and my wife and my family.
• 3:39
  And I got into teaching, which is what I'm currently doing.
• 3:42
  I was I'm a high school PE and health teacher at one of the high schools here here in town and enjoying every bit of it because it's keeping me around the youth.
• 3:51
  I'm able to pass on life lessons and knowledge and and also learn from them.
• 3:55
  And it's just been a very rewarding experience to to continue to be in a situation where I'm a coach slash teacher, mentor, and just being able to
• 4:04
  have an opportunity to pour back into the youth and and try to help them become the best versions of themselves.
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  Mm.
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  Mm.
• 4:09
  I love that.
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  You know, it's it's interesting.
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  in terms of almost a stigma, you know, you coming from the inner city and, you know, it being a rough area, and then, you know, to come to rise to where you are right now.
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  a question I have for you has to do with values, I'm curious about the values that were instilled in you as a young person that enabled you to just keep pushing forward.
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  I mean, you've had
• 4:31
  four careers, you've got, you know, your family, et cetera, et cetera.
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  I mean you're you're, you know, someone that people ought to look up to.
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  Yeah, I mean those values, you know, that foundation is huge.
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  You know, and I talk a lot about that in my book, just having that base foundation, right?
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  It's like when you when you have a house.
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  The the foundation has to be strong for that house to have longevity and and you know, a good foundation to stand on.
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  So, you know, although I was from a rough area and and faced a lot of trials and tribulations and and trauma and things like that.
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  Yeah.
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  I had a great base and a great foundation of people around me.
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  you know, starting with my parents, my mom and dad, who were who were teen parents.
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  You know, my mom was pregnant with me when she was 16, my dad was 17, and you know, although they were very young and we didn't have much, you know, the foundation was love.
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  You know, that's where everything started from and expanded out, you know.
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  So there was never a moment growing up that I that I
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  you know, didn't feel love and didn't feel appreciated.
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  And I think a lot of that, you know, helped shape and mold me into the man that I am today.
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  Mm-mm.
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  You know, basketball.
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  I played a lot of basketball, a lot of pickup games and that sort of thing growing up.
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  How did how did that you know, turn into something again that's you know kind of pouring into who you are and the way that you operate?
• 5:48
  it w it gave me sort of a an anchor, you know, it gave me something to s you know, hold on to, especially in those tough times and something to move towards as far as setting goals.
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  You know, at a very young age I knew I wanted to, you know, become a a pro basketball player and a college basketball player and and you know, it just gave me something to hold
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  on to and set goals for myself, you know, even through the tough times.
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  You know, the game, you know, I I tell people all the time, the game is a teacher of life.
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  Like with any sports, right?
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  You know, it's a teacher of life and it helps set those foundational pieces and it puts things into place for you to be successful if you use the resources and the tools in the
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  correct manner.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  I I always think about like the discipline, you know, getting up and doing it every day.
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  You know, I I I know I'm not I know I'm not the only person in the room, but you know, I remember going to the courts and shoveling the snow 'cause we were playing outside.
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  yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  man, I can remember it like it was yesterday.
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  You're shoot trying to shoot buckets with gloves on and you know, it's just like, man, you know, you think back and it's just like, wow, like I really did that.
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  Like, you know, but you know, it it just goes to show you, you know, when you when you have something that you're working and striving towards, you know, nothing's gonna get in
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  the way.
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  Not even, you know, six six inches of snow.
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  uh
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  the part where we walk to the court.
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  I'm glad you can feel that.
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  Excellent.
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  You know, the one one of the big things that you talk about is is resilience.
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  And resilience is, in my opinion, it's it's it's a muscle, something that you develop, you know, over time.
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  We don't develop resilience when you're when the road is smooth.
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  You know what I'm saying?
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  We reser we develop resilience, you know, as we go through stuff.
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  When we learn how to
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  you know, get back up over and over again.
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  What what was what were some of the things that fed into your resilience training?
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  there was a lot of things that fell into it.
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  You know, my my environment was one of them.
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  You know, I I moved, you know, my family and I, and family me and my parents, we moved ten times before I was the age of fourteen.
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  you know, so there was there was a lot of instability, a lot of unknowns, and you know, just a lot of question marks on, you know, what was gonna happen from one day to the next.
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  So you know, being in that situation in that
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  in that environment on a day-to-day basis, you know, surrounded by drugs and crime and and things and whatnot, you know, I learned early to observe and and and watch my
• 8:11
  surroundings, you know, watch the people around me, watch the things that they were into and the things that they were doing.
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  And, you know, for me, unfortunately, a lot of people were were going left.
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  And, you know, I knew I I knew I had goals that I had set for myself and I wanted to, you know, sort of break the mold.
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  You know, so I always try to veer right when everybody else veered left.
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  And, you know, although people went through different things in their lives, you know, as far as, you know, making mistakes or making, you know, the wrong decisions, I tried to
• 8:39
  learn from their experiences as well, even though I wasn't directly affected by it.
• 8:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Well what was what was what's something that what's a story that just stands out in your mind?
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  It's like, hey, you what, everybody is, you know, doing X.
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  I need to do Y because this is who I am and I know where I'm going.
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  Yeah.
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  you know, there's there's there's a lot of stories.
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  actually, you know, one that comes to mind is you know, being on the park one day playing basketball and you know, a guy that I was pretty close to, you know, was was was doing
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  some things, you know, that he shouldn't have been doing, you know, as far as, you know, selling drugs and, you know, getting into sort of the life of crime.
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  Now, mind you, you know, I'm fifteen years old, fourteen, fifteen years old at the time, and you know, we're
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  In the middle of a game, summertime game and, you know, we're having fun and competing and, you know, next thing you know, four or five squad cars pull up, you know, and bunch
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  of different cops, you know, they they they get out of the squad cars, they rush onto the court and we all freeze not knowing what's going on and they grabbed my friend and, you
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  know, kinda took him away in cuffs and you know, for me it was just like a a wow i a wow moment because, you know
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  at any given time things can change, especially if you, you know, you veer off to that that left road, where where it can lead to, you know, you you Being involved in things
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  that you you shouldn't be involved in.
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  So, you know, I always just told myself like I'm not gonna be that guy.
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  you know, and and not only that, I had the family and the you know, the support system to to make sure I stayed in line and and and didn't go that route.
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  that's awesome.
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  That's awesome.
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  That's that's I I hear that over and over again.
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  It's that, you know, the family.
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  You know, you and you're the oldest of ten, which I which I think is which is remarkable.
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  I'm I'm the oldest as well, you know, but I've only got two siblings.
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  And it's it's what what keeps crossing my mind is is that leadership, you know, that's that's kind of put on us.
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  You know, they're always looking to us, you know, it's like, Hey, you know what, what what what is he doing?
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  You know, how should I do things, et cetera, et cetera.
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  What what were some things
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  that you learned in terms of leading, you know, your siblings and things that perhaps they picked up from you, you know, that, you know, perhaps set them on the right path as well.
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  Yeah.
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  The main thing I learned was that there's always someone watching, you know.
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  Um, and my dad used to always say that to me, you know, whether you're talking about opportunities or, you know, someone who may look up to you that you have no idea, you
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  know.
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  So the goal is to always try to set an e a good example, you know, because there's somebody always watching, you know, as a kid I was always watching my dad because that's
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  who I looked up to.
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  And
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  You know, he was doing things the right way to set an example for me that had a huge impact and influence on me and and my growing up into becoming a man.
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  So, you know, to answer your question as it relates to my siblings, there's a huge age gap with most of them.
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  so I was always under the mindset that they're watching everything that I do.
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  They're listening to everything that I say.
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  So
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  I need to try to set a good example and, you know, create a path that they can follow in a in a positive positive way to to to achieve whatever it is that they that they have set
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  for themselves.
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  So you know, and and looking at it now, a lot of them are, you grown and, you know, in their mid twenties and late twenties.
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  And to see the life that they've carved out for themselves up to this point, has been pretty
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  Fulfilling and you know, I have a lot of gratitude in that, you know, because I know that they were watching everything that I was doing, you know, when they were younger and they
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  tell me that.
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  So, uh, you know, just just you know, actions speak louder than words.
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  You can say one thing, but at the end of the day, what model are you putting out for an example for people that are looking up to you for advice?
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  but besides your your parents, did you have other role models that you were you were looking to?
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  Yeah, man, I was I was lucky, man.
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  I I there was just so many people that that that played a part, whether large or small, in my upbringing and influencing the things that I that I did uh growing up.
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  You know, I had a lot of different coaches, you know, a lot of different athletes, and even friends, you know, my my core group of friends, there were three of and we did
• 12:50
  everything together.
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  I mean, we did everything together, man.
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  And and even those guys, you know, like there was just so many positive role models and influences for me when I was growing up that that that helped helped make life a lot
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  easier in a tough environment.
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  You know, the the old saying is true, it it takes a village.
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  It takes a village.
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  And and you know, that's when I when I look back on my my up upbringing in childhood, that's that's exactly what it was.
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  It was a village.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  I was what I was thinking about was, you know, you're you're the first person to go to college, you know, and it's it's like it's new territory.
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  You know, suddenly you're exposed to a much, much larger group of people, you know, much more diverse group of people, and you felt like you could be successful.
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  Where where where did that come from?
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  it just came from an inner belief, you know, and in myself and the things that I had been through leading up to that point.
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  You know, like when I got to campus, you know, in Madison and y it wasn't many people who looked like me, you know, like, you know, I'm one of a few black students on campus, and
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  you know, those students were mostly athletes, the other students, you know, so for me
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  it was uncharted territory because coming out in inner city of Milwaukee, I hadn't had much interaction with anybody who looked different, you know, than me or had a different
• 14:05
  background or upbringing, you know, than I had, even though I was involved with sports.
• 14:09
  You know, so when when I stepped foot on that campus, you know, I was ready for all of the challenges that that that, you know, waited for me because of all of the things that I had
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  been through and building that resilience piece and falling down and getting knocked down and, you know,
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  constantly getting back up, you know, learning from from things that happened to me and and moving forward.
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  and, you know, I was I was ready.
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  I was ready for everything when I got on campus.
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  And, you know, I I thank God that I went through all of the things that I went through, even though a lot of it was ugly.
• 14:39
  uh You know, because it it just helped prepare me to be able to deal with the rigors of, you know, being on a college campus that was predominantly white.
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  And not only that, being a student athlete and trying to balance
• 14:52
  you know, being an athlete and a student and, you know, all of the challenges that came with it.
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  So, you know, I went in, ears open, eyes wide and and ready to take on whatever whatever was coming for me.
• 15:03
  Yeah, yeah, I feel you.
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  You know, it's it's always interesting, you know, when you reflect back, you know, when you were going through these difficult times, you had to learn how to it was terrible,
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  right?
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  It's just like, you know, why is this happening to me?
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  Or, you know, I gotta, you know, get up again or, you know, whatever it is.
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  But then you get to the point where you look back and you go, Wow, if I didn't go through that, if I didn't experience that, then I wouldn't be where I am right now.
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  And I wouldn't be teaching, you know, where you are.
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  It's like I wouldn't be teaching other people how to keep going by example versus
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  by theory, you know what I mean?
• 15:34
  And I think that's just so much so much more powerful.
• 15:36
  Yeah, and it is too.
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  And, you know, I even think like, you know, when I say I went through a lot of stuff, I'm being very vague, but just to give you an example and and you know, open myself up a
• 15:45
  little bit, you know, I I I grew up with you know, very high crime area.
• 15:50
  I've seen, you know, people get murdered, I've seen drug deals, you know, you're talking about the peak of the crack epidemic in the eighties and nineties.
• 15:59
  And unfortunately my mom
• 16:01
  became an addict, a drug addict.
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  So, you know, there were times where I would see her in the neighborhood, you know, looking for her next score of drugs while I'm on the basketball court playing.
• 16:12
  And, you know, you talk about something that that cuts you at the core of your soul.
• 16:16
  You know, that was, that was a tough time for me, you know, in a sense of being a kid, you know, seeing his mom go through you know, that experience and seeing her battling those
• 16:25
  demons on a day in and day out.
• 16:27
  Yeah.
• 16:28
  you know, bases was was was really tough and and troubling for me.
• 16:32
  And, you know, I just thank God that I had something to hold on to as far as friends and and other family and, you know, the game of basketball, because, you know, without those
• 16:41
  things, I don't I don't know what I would have done you know, when dealing with that at that point in my life.
• 16:46
  I can imagine.
• 16:47
  I can imagine.
• 16:48
  I'm I'm I'm so sorry, you know, that that was your experience.
• 16:50
  Where where where did your where did your faith foundation come from?
• 16:54
  Yeah, I mean, God, for one, you know, you know, just just having that belief that, you know, these things, although they suck, they happen it they're happening for a reason.
• 17:05
  They're happening to build me for what's to come, you know, so that when I get in certain situations in life, because life throws us all curveballs.
• 17:12
  I don't care, you know, where you're from.
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  You know, you can be from a very wealthy background or very poor back background, you can be white, black.
• 17:20
  Orange, green, it don't matter.
• 17:21
  You know, life is gonna come at you and it's gonna throw a curveball at you.
• 17:25
  And the difference between people who are able to move past it and who sort of get stuck in neutral are the ones who embrace what's happening to whether it's good or bad, and more
• 17:37
  importantly, learn from it, you know, and and be able to move on.
• 17:41
  you know, and and
• 17:41
  You know, through the grace of God, that that was that was my my foundation was God and, you know, my relationships with my family and friends.
• 17:49
  you know, that that's where I drew inspiration from and that's how I was able to overcome a lot of things that that, you know, were thrown at me.
• 17:56
  Mm.
• 17:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:58
  It's remarkable.
• 17:58
  I I hear that, you know, over and over again.
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  People, you know, talking about how the relationship with God gave him that grounding through, you know, very, very difficult situations.
• 18:21
  Yeah.
• 18:08
  it is unbelievable how far faith can carry you.
• 18:11
  You know, like it it's unbelievable.
• 18:13
  And you you hear the miracle stories, you know, on a daily basis if you're paying attention.
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  There's miracles happening every day, you know, because people just have that unwavering faith, you know, that they're gonna get through whatever it is that that life presents to
• 18:28
  them in that moment and they keep that faith and that belief and and that hope and and and things eventually turn, you know, it's it's it's it's all in the energy, right?
• 18:36
  yeah, absolutely.
• 18:37
  Absolutely.
• 18:37
  Absolutely.
• 18:38
  Continuing to put one foot in front of the other.
• 18:42
  What what what was it important?
• 18:44
  You know, I mean you you you went through college, you you, you know, played in front of tens of thousands of people.
• 18:50
  you know, you met lots of people, you had lots lots of situations that popped up.
• 18:54
  What is what is a s what was a standout moment for you in terms of a a life a life lesson, something that, you know, may have altered
• 19:02
  your trajectory or just gave you like a download that you knew you would wouldn't get any pla any other way.
• 19:08
  Well, there was two things that stand out for me.
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  The first is when somebody made an attempt on my life, when I was in high school.
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  yeah, I'm sitting in a parked car.
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  My my stepmom at the time had you know, she would pick me up from school every day after practice, and then we would go and pick up my younger brothers and sisters from from
• 19:27
  daycare, and then we would all head home for dinner.
• 19:30
  Well, one fall night, sort of
• 19:32
  Well, one fall afternoon, late afternoon, she picked me up from school.
• 19:36
  Same routine that we do every day.
• 19:39
  I'm sitting in the car.
• 19:40
  she runs in to grab them, and a car pulls up alongside of me.
• 19:44
  I look to my right, and there's an arm hanging out the window and a revolver pointed right at my face.
• 19:51
  And I see two flashes come out of the gun.
• 19:54
  I ducked below near the you know, front.
• 19:57
  front panel, uh, up under the front by the steering wheel.
• 20:01
  And I hear three more shots ring out, and the car speeds off.
• 20:05
  you know, and I get out of the car, I run into the house, you know, tell my stepmom and her sister at the time, who used to babysit my brothers and sisters while we were at
• 20:14
  school and work.
• 20:15
  I explain to them what happened.
• 20:16
  And long story short, we call the police, they show up, investigate, and
• 20:21
  In their investigation, they see, you know, they pull a bullet hole from the panel, outside panel of the car by where my head was, and the bullet was stuck in there.
• 20:31
  And they say if it was a newer model car that I probably would have gotten shot in the head.
• 20:36
  So that was the first, you know, first moment where it was like, okay.
• 20:41
  And then the second is the complete, it's a complete 180 of this story, is when I met.
• 20:46
  the president of the United States, Barack Obama.
• 20:49
  so one Michelle Obama's brother Craig is a big mentor of mine.
• 20:54
  we were very, very close friends and I was able to build a relationship with him because when I was coaching, I worked for him at Oregon State when he was the head coach.
• 21:03
  so when I worked for him at Oregon State, he set up a tour for us, our team to visit the White House because we played Maryland out in DC
• 21:10
  during that time and we went and had a private tour of the White House and we get to the Oval Office and what do you know, Michelle and Barack Obama are right there to greet us.
• 21:20
  And you know, just shaking both of their hands.
• 21:22
  They're calling me by my first name.
• 21:24
  They know exactly who I am uh through Michelle's brother.
• 21:27
  Was just a it was an out of body experience, man, because I started reflecting in that moment, thinking about like all of the things that I had been through up to that point.
• 21:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:37
  here I am shaking hands with the president and the first lady of the United States who are calling me by my first name.
• 21:43
  And it was just, it was just a cool experience, you know, because, you know, at that moment I'm thinking like I'm not supposed to be here.
• 21:49
  And here I am, you know, through the grace of God.
• 21:52
  So no, it was, it was just, you know, it was it was just a really cool experience.
• 21:56
  But, you know, to answer your question, those are those are the two things for me that that really stand out.
• 22:01
  W what'd you learn from each of those circumstances?
• 22:03
  The first one when somebody made an attempt in my life, I learned that you cannot take a day for granted.
• 22:10
  You know, you have to live in the moment, you have to cherish every moment because it could be your last.
• 22:16
  You know, we we are all on on on on a time clock and none of us know when when it's gonna stop.
• 22:22
  You know, so for me, that going through that experience was terrifying.
• 22:27
  You know, don't get me wrong, I'm you know, 17 years old and
• 22:30
  And it happens to me, you know, it's it's terrifying, but it also forced me to put things into perspective at a very young age that I might not have thought about until I was a lot
• 22:40
  older.
• 22:40
  you know, and then the second story, meeting the president and the first lady, you know, for me it was it was the learning experience was that no matter what you go through,
• 22:51
  there's always there's always light at the end of the tunnel.
• 22:54
  Yeah.
• 22:54
  you know, there's always light at the end of the tunnel and you know, we all have opportunities to make something of ourselves.
• 23:00
  It's just a matter of How hard are you willing to fight from it, fight for it, and are you are you a person who's going to exhaust every resource possible to to get there?
• 23:10
  Hmm.
• 23:11
  It's interesting.
• 23:11
  They they kind of sound related.
• 23:13
  I I think about, you know, when you when you have that that moment, you know, where you're just like, hey, you know what, I need to make the most of every moment, you know, suddenly
• 23:20
  that drive, you know, increases.
• 23:23
  You know, it's like I'm gonna try this thing, you know, I don't know if I can do it or not, but I'm gonna do it anyway because you know because, you know, it's what else?
• 23:31
  Right.
• 23:32
  Right, right.
• 23:33
  Yeah, definitely.
• 23:33
  You know, and and we're all guilty of it, right?
• 23:36
  You know, you try you you you put things off sometimes, you you know, I'll wait till tomorrow, I'll wait to next week, or or even if it's something that you kind of fear
• 23:44
  doing, you know, you kind of stay away from it because you're afraid to fail.
• 23:48
  But it's like, you know, at the end of the day, what is failure?
• 23:50
  You know, what is failure?
• 23:52
  You learn you learn a lot more from failure than you do from success.
• 23:55
  So, you know, to my listeners, why not?
• 23:58
  Just go for it.
• 23:59
  Go for it.
• 23:59
  If you fail,
• 24:00
  Get back up and try again, you know, because you hear the stories all the time.
• 24:04
  People fail so many times before they're able to achieve something great.
• 24:08
  So why wait?
• 24:09
  You know, why wait?
• 24:10
  None of us is promised tomorrow.
• 24:11
  Whatever you're thinking about doing or thinking about achieving, you know, as far as goals that you have set for yourself, just just do it now.
• 24:19
  Don't wait.
• 24:19
  Don't wait.
• 24:20
  And don't be afraid to fail.
• 24:21
  Yeah, yep, yep, yep.
• 24:23
  Awesome, awesome, awesome.
• 24:24
  I'm thinking about you picking up and heading across the pond.
• 24:28
  Again, you know, another experience.
• 24:30
  You're you're going out there, you know, to another country.
• 24:32
  probably, I don't know, you probably the first in your family to do that.
• 24:35
  Is that right?
• 24:37
  Yeah.
• 24:37
  And so whole whole other world, you know, first of all, what gave you the courage to do that?
• 24:42
  Yeah, just just chasing the game that I loved playing, you know, and also seeing it too as an opportunity to learn from other cultures and and be thrusted into an that environment
• 24:53
  that otherwise I may not have gotten another opportunity to do that, you know.
• 24:57
  So you know, for me I looked at it as an as an opportunity to to continue to learn, you know, immerse myself in a completely different and opposite culture than what I'm used to.
• 25:07
  And
• 25:08
  You know, when I when I went over there and when I came back, I was definitely a changed man.
• 25:14
  You know, and I went over when I when I went over there, I went over to Eastern Europe too.
• 25:17
  So I was near Russia in Ukraine.
• 25:19
  So, you know, the way of life over there is completely different than Western Europe, you know, where Western Europe is more, you know, especially at the time, was more kind of
• 25:28
  like America, where Eastern Europe, you know, those are old Soviet bloc countries, you know, who were not
• 25:35
  far removed from, you know, war.
• 25:37
  And, you know, it was just, it was just a completely different lifestyle and a completely different cultural experience than what I was even expecting.
• 25:45
  but, you know, it was definitely an experience that, you know, helped me.
• 25:49
  And, you know, when I got back from from Europe, it was like there's not a room that I can walk in where, you know, I would feel uncomfortable because
• 25:57
  You know, I I've I've experienced just about every s life situation that you can as far as being around different types of people from, you know, different walks of life and and you
• 26:07
  know, it was able to provide me with the ability to adapt in any room that I enter.
• 26:12
  yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:13
  That's powerful.
• 26:14
  That's powerful.
• 26:15
  It's it's interesting.
• 26:16
  I I I traveled, you know, a bit as well.
• 26:18
  And, you know, I would I would absolutely have to I can appreciate that.
• 26:22
  You know, it's like like especially when, you know, you make these connections and you don't really even speak the language.
• 26:28
  I mean, I I think that's the coolest thing, you know, and then you discover it's like we all need the same things, you know, we all we gotta eat, we gotta get
• 26:35
  And what it made me realize too was that, yeah, we're all different in a lot of ways, but we're not all that different either, you know.
• 26:44
  We're not all that different, you know.
• 26:45
  but no man, it was it was an amazing experience, you know, like you know, just just the the culture, the food, you know, the the the architecture,
• 26:55
  You know, just the way people go about their lives, it just gave me a greater appreciation for, you know, things that that that I have and things that I'm able to do.
• 27:04
  You know, one thing that stood out to me when I when I went over there, I remember we had a tournament in the Ukraine in Kiev, which is, you know, war is going on over there now,
• 27:13
  but unfortunately.
• 27:15
  But when I was over there, I remember on our ride from the airport to the hotel, you know, we passed through this really rough stretch.
• 27:23
  as far as a neighborhood and I mean you could see people on the side of the road selling beans and selling, you know, just whatever they could to try to make, you know, ends meet
• 27:33
  for their family, to support themselves and their family.
• 27:36
  And it just gave me that moment gave me a lot of perspective because I started relating it to how I grew up.
• 27:42
  And I said, man, here I am, you know, thinking that I didn't grow up with much, but there's always someone doing worse.
• 27:48
  You know, like this doesn't compare
• 27:50
  Like how I grew up doesn't compare to what these people are going through.
• 27:53
  And then it just gave me a lot of gratitude and in in how I grew up.
• 27:57
  And, you know, it it just gave me a different perspective, you know, going forward that, you know, although you may be going through something, you know, there's someone that that
• 28:06
  that's doing probably a lot worse than you are in that moment.
• 28:09
  Now that doesn't mean you minimize what you're going through, but there is someone doing worse.
• 28:13
  And, you know, it kind of gave me a mentality to think like glass half full.
• 28:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:18
  I I I love that that you said it doesn't minimize what you're going through.
• 28:22
  that's that's you know, that's that's always the thing.
• 28:24
  I I get frustrated sometimes when you say, Well, at least you're not blah, blah, blah.
• 28:28
  It's like, but you know, I have different capabilities and capacity.
• 28:31
  I mean, I should be, you know, whatever that is.
• 28:33
  I I think that's such a powerful statement.
• 28:35
  you ta you mentioned gratitude.
• 28:37
  Gratitude in my mind is is a big deal.
• 28:40
  You know, it is something that, you know, changes your thinking, your perspective, you know, even how you go about things.
• 28:46
  How did how does gratitude play into your overall life playbook?
• 28:50
  It's everything, you know, because especially, you know, the environment we live in today, you know, it's you can kinda get caught up in wanting more all the time, which is fine.
• 29:01
  You know, it's fine to want more.
• 29:02
  Um, you know, but it's also wise to reflect and and and and have gratitude for what you have in that moment.
• 29:11
  you know, and I just think that that's very important because, you know, we all work hard, you know, no matter what.
• 29:16
  profession we're in, you know, no matter how big or small our paychecks are, you know, most people like we're all working hard to, you know, support life, to support, you know,
• 29:26
  our lifestyle and support, you know, people who depend on us as well, you know, whether it be kids or parents or, you know, a spouse.
• 29:33
  you know, so just I just think it's important to always, you know, try to reflect and have gratitude for where you are and what you have in that moment.
• 29:40
  because
• 29:41
  You know, there has to be some sense of appreciation for everything that you went through to get to this point in your life.
• 29:47
  So, you know, I I just never I try to never have a day that goes by where I I'm not appreciative for for for what I have in my life, you know, with my wife and my son and you
• 29:57
  know, the things that, you know, we've been able to accomplish as a family up to this point.
• 30:02
  You know, it just it just gives you just gives you a a a positive
• 30:06
  sort of point of view on things and and and it also can not force you, but it also can inspire you to achieve to want more, which is not a bad thing.
• 30:15
  You know, so yeah, you know, it's just the world we live in, you know, we all we're all guilty of it.
• 30:21
  We can lose sight of that, you know, but every now and then, you know, it's important for me at least to just sit back and and and appreciate, you know, what what I do have.
• 30:29
  Because, you know, as
• 30:31
  Through my experiences, it can be taken away from you at any given moment.
• 30:34
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:35
  Absolutely.
• 30:36
  I love that.
• 30:36
  I love that.
• 30:37
  you went through a couple of life altering changes.
• 30:41
  You know, you're going from, you know, playing Pro Ball, you know, overseas to becoming a coach and then going from becoming a coach to becoming a father.
• 30:49
  You know, I mean, we could look at it from a financial perspective, you know, it changed, you know, but you know, this this is really an identity change.
• 30:57
  You know, I the the the last time I w this is this is a bad story.
• 31:00
  last time I went out to play basketball, I was thirty something years old and I got on the court and they said, Are you here to be the coach?
• 31:07
  And then you know, that hurt me.
• 31:08
  It was an id it w you know, it it stripped my identity completely.
• 31:12
  But this is your show.
• 31:13
  What's your story?
• 31:14
  man.
• 31:15
  I got a funny one for you.
• 31:16
  That moment hit me one day when I, you know, we'll get back to the fatherhood part, but that moment hit me one day I was in practice, and this was, you know, probably five years
• 31:26
  ago.
• 31:26
  I got out of coaching three years ago when my son was born.
• 31:29
  So this was about five years ago, I was on the tail end.
• 31:32
  You know, and especially as a former athlete, man, we think we're invincible.
• 31:35
  Athletes, you know, we all think we're invincible, especially when we get older.
• 31:38
  We we think in our minds that our bodies can still do what it did twenty-five years ago when that's not the case.
• 31:45
  So, we're in practice one day and you know, one of the guys our team is scrimmaging and they take a shot and the ball gets stuck in between the rim and the backboard.
• 31:53
  You know, and back in day I can get up and get that.
• 31:56
  You know, I can get up there and, you know, pluck it out and you know, I could I could
• 32:00
  jumped pretty high back in the day with no problem.
• 32:02
  Well, I went to attempt to do that and yeah, it didn't go so well.
• 32:06
  And that was my aha moment.
• 32:08
  Yeah, that was my old man moment.
• 32:10
  And I mean everybody just died laughing.
• 32:13
  And you know, in one of the film sessions, the coach that I worked for at the time, he showed it on film and you know it was just it was it was hilarious, man.
• 32:21
  I see you're in tears over here.
• 32:23
  I am man, I am.
• 32:24
  I knew I knew where I knew where the story was going.
• 32:26
  I'm just like, no.
• 32:27
  uh
• 32:29
  yeah.
• 32:30
  And it was just one of those things where I'm like, man, how embarrassing.
• 32:33
  You know, so needless to say, I've been sticking to shooting jumpers in the driveway by myself, you know, from that moment on.
• 32:39
  But, you know, but with with fatherhood, man, it it you know, it definitely changes you.
• 32:44
  My wife and I, we waited to have kids because we we moved ten we had ten states covered in 17 years.
• 32:50
  In my first 17 years of coaching, we moved ten different times, ten different states, and we held off on having a kid because of the rigors of coaching.
• 32:58
  so you know, w when I when I got the job, that was my last college job, we moved back to the state of Wisconsin, which is where we're both from, and you know, we decided it was
• 33:07
  time to put some roots down and and and start a family.
• 33:10
  And the moment that my son was born, I mean, it changed everything, man.
• 33:14
  You know, just
• 33:15
  Like my my world was turned upside down in a good way.
• 33:18
  And it, you know, all these years I had been consumed with myself and trying to make sure I was good and, you know, make sure my wife was good.
• 33:26
  And and now here's this little human being who comes from both of us who we are responsible for, you know, and and you know, and it made me really pivot and realize that,
• 33:37
  man, out of all the jobs that I've had and careers, like this is the most important career right here.
• 33:43
  You know, making sure that this little fella grows up with all of the foundational knowledge and love and values and and things that can help him be as successful as
• 33:55
  possible.
• 33:55
  and more importantly, to be a good person, you know, because that that's the foundation of it all, you know, to to just be a good person at the end of the day.
• 34:03
  So, you know, right now, you know, that's that's where my world centers around, man.
• 34:07
  It's about, you know, my son.
• 34:09
  And my wife and my family and and and everything else is sort of on the exterior, you know.
• 34:14
  And that's why, you know, me writing this book, you know, was so important because I wanted to get it all on paper for my son.
• 34:21
  You know, when he gets old enough, he can have something to look back on.
• 34:25
  And there'll be very few questions on what it was like for his old man growing up.
• 34:31
  You know, for me, both of my parents are past.
• 34:33
  They're and they and they both died young.
• 34:35
  And as a middle aged man, I have a lot of questions that I can't get answered now.
• 34:39
  You know, so for me, like I don't want that for my son.
• 34:41
  And, you know, I want to leave a legacy for him to kind of, you know, build upon and and know where he comes from and know all the important people that played a factor in helping
• 34:50
  his dad be the man that he sees before him today.
• 34:53
  Yeah.
• 34:54
  Yeah.
• 34:54
  That's I I think that's so so excellent.
• 34:56
  you know, creating creating that legacy.
• 34:58
  I wanna I wanna I wanna talk about the book a little bit more.
• 35:02
  you know, in both from the perspective of what a reader would get out of it and also, you know, what you wanted to really pour of yourself into the book that really makes it a
• 35:13
  powerful experience, you know, for the reader.
• 35:15
  Yeah.
• 35:15
  Well, I want the reader to be able to reflect.
• 35:19
  You know, we've been talking a lot about reflection and life in general.
• 35:22
  Like, I want whoever reads the book to be in a position where they're forced to think and reflect and peel back the layers of who they are and where they come from.
• 35:31
  you know, no matter whether it's a young high school kid trying to figure, you know, his or her life out.
• 35:37
  Or whether it's a middle-aged man that's, you know, my age, you know, that's trying to figure some things out, you know, and trying to get through tough times.
• 35:45
  You know, I just want people to be able to read the book and peel back layers of who they are and where they come from and and and where they're headed.
• 35:53
  you know, because, you know, that reflection piece is huge.
• 35:56
  You know, life, life gets in the way, you're busy, you know, trying to chase.
• 36:01
  you know, your career and, you know, and and goals and things of that nature, but you know, being able to sit back and reflect on the life that you've lived and the life that
• 36:11
  you want to continue to live is important.
• 36:13
  And then that legacy piece, you know, I want people to think, you know, when when I'm dead and gone, what's my legacy going to be?
• 36:20
  What are people going to remember me by?
• 36:22
  You know, are they going to remember me as being a positive person who, you know, poured into others, trying to bring others and lift others up?
• 36:30
  You know, or it can go the other way too.
• 36:32
  You know, am I gonna be a person that people didn't really get along with or people didn't like?
• 36:37
  You know, so for me, just being able to kind of unveil some things and some thoughts that people may not take the time to think about, you know, as it relates to their life and
• 36:47
  their legacy.
• 36:48
  Mm.
• 36:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:49
  And and a and about you pouring yourself into this.
• 36:51
  I mean, that's that's that's an experience in and of itself.
• 36:54
  I mean what what was that?
• 36:55
  know, I definitely had to dig deep, you know, when I decided to write the book, you know, and there was a lot of feelings that I had buried for 30 plus years, you know, the story I
• 37:04
  gave you about my mom being an addict and you know, a lot of the things that we went through as a family and I went through as a kid and things that I've seen and experienced
• 37:11
  growing up, like that was stuff that I hadn't thought about in thirty plus years and now all of a sudden I'm writing the book and those feelings are coming back to the surface,
• 37:19
  you know.
• 37:20
  And with writing it, I experienced pretty much every emotional possible, every emotion possible, you know, in writing the book.
• 37:27
  And it was very therapeutic for me because it was a lot of things that I had buried deep that I didn't address that I was able to address through writing.
• 37:35
  And now, you know, it feels like a thousand pound boulder has been lifted off my back, you know, with with some of the things you know, now that I that I've written the book.
• 37:43
  Wow, wow, that's wonderful.
• 37:44
  That's wonderful.
• 37:45
  What is what is the is is there a what's what's the name of the book, first of all?
• 37:49
  Book is called Echoes of Stark Park.
• 37:52
  It's the park that I grew up on growing up.
• 37:55
  And I mean, I tell people all the time that park pretty much saved my life.
• 37:59
  you know, because whenever, you know, I was faced with some things that I needed to get through and work out, I always went to the park.
• 38:06
  You know, it was right around the corner from my house.
• 38:08
  And, you know, I would always be out there working on my game and and trying to strive to be the best that I can be, you know, with the game of basketball.
• 38:15
  And
• 38:15
  Whenever I stepped in between those lines, everything else that was happening outside of the lines just didn't matter that much.
• 38:21
  You know, like it it it allowed me a safe space to go and and and escape, you know, the things that I was that I was going through at that time.
• 38:28
  So yeah, the book again is echoes of Stark Park.
• 38:31
  And yeah, it's just that that park is is sort of the the theme of my life because a lot of growing up was done at that park.
• 38:40
  You know, I grew up a lot a lot sooner than most people have to, but it was necessary.
• 38:45
  Mm.
• 38:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:45
  Well and the book is available on Amazon or
• 38:49
  Yep.
• 38:50
  So the book is available on all major platforms.
• 38:52
  Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart, any any major brand, uh, any major retailer is is carrying the book.
• 39:00
  Nice, very nice, very nice.
• 39:01
  And you're doing speaking engagements as well, right?
• 39:03
  So the topic is legacy.
• 39:04
  there's three different topics that I talk about as it relates to the book.
• 39:08
  the first one is legacy.
• 39:09
  at the end of the book, I created a sort of a workbook that talks about the different phases of life.
• 39:15
  you know, the first being the foundation, the second being, you know, that you're building towards something, the third being the discovery of who you are, and then the fourth
• 39:25
  piece, that final piece being legacy.
• 39:27
  So the workbook.
• 39:28
  in the back of the actual book helps readers sort of peel back those layers like I talked about earlier.
• 39:35
  And then based on the questions that I ask as it relates to where you are in your journey, that'll give you an idea of where you are in relation to to to your to your roadmap to
• 39:47
  legacy.
• 39:47
  That's what I call it.
• 39:48
  you know, and with the ultimate goal of being in that legacy space when you get older.
• 39:52
  where you're pouring into others and you're trying to bring others along and help them be the best versions of themselves.
• 39:57
  So the three different topics, legacy is the first.
• 40:00
  the second is when the game ends.
• 40:02
  So this relates to, you know, it can be career related, you know, companies, you know, you're getting ready to retire, or it can be related to sports when the game ends and just
• 40:12
  talks about make I'll I'll talk about making that transition in life, you know, because life is transitions and
• 40:18
  You know, unfortunately for a lot of people, if they've been doing something for so long and they have a life transition thrown at them, it's really hard for them to make that
• 40:26
  adjustment.
• 40:26
  You know, so that's the second topic, talking about how to deal with that.
• 40:31
  And then the third topic is the player coach relationship.
• 40:34
  Now that's not just related to sports either.
• 40:37
  it's related to business as well and work environment.
• 40:40
  You know, people cause you know, at the end of the day, especially career wise and
• 40:44
  In a work environment, most people answer to somebody, right?
• 40:47
  Unless you got your own business, which is great, but then you still have to answer to yourself, right?
• 40:52
  But you know, the player coach relationship is another topic.
• 40:55
  And that just talks about sort of building that bridge and creating an environment where the relationship between the player and the coach is where it needs to be, so that
• 41:06
  everybody can be successful in in in whatever role that they play within the company or with with within a team.
• 41:12
  I have a question for you.
• 41:14
  The name of the show, of course, is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
• 41:17
  Um, people can generally define winning in whatever way they want to.
• 41:22
  The hard part sometimes is that relentless pursuit.
• 41:25
  We talked a little bit about resilience.
• 41:27
  what is your offering or what would you share with our audience about how to or ways they can maintain that relentless pursuit?
• 41:33
  Yeah, one of the main things that I think is that blocking out the outside noise and staying focused on the goal.
• 41:42
  you know, there's a lot of distractions out there, you know, and and you know, depending on who you are, I mean there's distractions for everything, right?
• 41:50
  There's things that can pull you off course and sort of deterior, like, your road and and where you're headed if you let it.
• 41:57
  Yeah.
• 41:57
  know, so For me it's just minimizing those distractions and removing yourself from them as quickly as possible.
• 42:04
  because if you have things that you're trying to achieve, you can't you can't let anything get in the way.
• 42:10
  You have to sacrifice whatever it is that you need to sacrifice in order to get to where you wanna be, you know, depending on what that is.
• 42:18
  And, you know, for me, you know, I'm a living example of that, you know.
• 42:22
  I'm not saying I got it all figured out, but I've been through some pr pretty crazy situations to get to this point in my life.
• 42:29
  And, you know, when you talk about winning and success, like for me, it's defined, you know, in different ways.
• 42:34
  You know, for me is just being happy, happy.
• 42:38
  You know, winning and being successful is being happy with where you are at that point in your life, you know, whether it's emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally, whatever
• 42:47
  the case.
• 42:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:48
  know, and and I'm in a place where I wake up every day, considering all the things that I've been through, I wake up every day and I'm genuinely happy of where I am, you know,
• 42:58
  and being present and being in that moment.
• 43:00
  You know, so for me, that's what happiness and success is for me.
• 43:04
  That's what winning and that's what success is for me.
• 43:06
  Just being genuine genuinely happy with with what I have and where I am at that point in my life.
• 43:11
  So
• 43:12
  Hopefully that answers your question.
• 43:14
  Yeah.
• 43:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 43:15
  Removed yeah.
• 43:18
  for yourself.
• 43:19
  That that's beautiful.
• 43:20
  we talked really briefly about a a giveaway for our audience that we're gonna put together.
• 43:26
  yeah.
• 43:24
  So we'll be having a giveaway.
• 43:26
  the key is is in order to get the giveaway, you'll have to log into the show notes to get sort of the information on what you need to do for the book.
• 43:36
  And trust me, you know, I know there's a million books that come out every year, but this is something that I think will resonate with the listeners here today, no matter what l
• 43:46
  walk of life you're from.
• 43:47
  You know, I think it's a book that anyone can resonate with and it it'll force you to really think about some some inner thoughts that maybe you haven't necessarily thought
• 43:57
  about before.
• 43:57
  You know, there's a lot of obviously a lot of s you know, sad moments in there, but there's also a lot of funny moments, a lot of happy moments, a lot of inspiration, a lot
• 44:06
  of joy.
• 44:07
  So you know, for anybody that's that's you know looking for some inspiration and motivation, make sure you go pick up
• 44:13
  Echoes of Stark Park at any major retailer or log into the show notes and follow the directions and you'll have your opportunity to get one for free.
• 44:21
  Excellent, excellent, excellent.
• 44:22
  Thank you, Freddie.
• 44:23
  Thank you so much.
• 44:24
  It's been an enjoyable conversation.
• 44:26
  I appreciate you and your time.
• 44:27
  Thanks for having me on.
• 44:28
  It was a
• 44:27
  blast.
• 44:28
  Outstanding.
• 44:29
  Outstanding.
• 44:29
  And folks, thank you so much for watching or listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
• 44:35
  We'll catch you next time.